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22 Jan 2013 23:40:19
I think zaha is an exciting young english signing.
Probably a decent price, will either be a success at this club or will have a good sell on value.
We need a winger to put pressure on and hopefully improve the form of our current wingers who we all know havn't been at the level we would expect recently.
Good signing, a cm would have been nice but think we will manage until the summer now before we buy one along with a lb
Will Red
22 Jan 2013 21:58:50
Why did we let Paul Pogba go to Juve again?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hFCDnufsyPI
CJ
Quite simply we didn't, he didn't want to play for us so he refused all contract offers and went to Juve.
And good riddence imo, there is no place at our club for players who aren't commited to play for us.
Now can we put this Pogba thing to bed now.
Shappy
Because he didn't want to play for us.
Next...
GDS
Although I understand his desire to play regularly I am still quite disappointed with the lack of respect this kid has for the club that invested in him and nurtured him.
kuoster
Don't know why your disappointed or rather seem to be surprised by Pogba moving to Juve in the way he did.
He did the exact same to Le Harve as 15/16 year old to sign for United.
In some ways I bet Le Harve officials had a little chuckle about what goes around comes around.
MACMAN
MACMAN, he was only at Le Havre for around 18 months. They took him from another club themselves.
Sydney!
+ Viera advised him to leave...
RamoN 19
22 Jan 2013 22:27:48
Syd
Nice jammy 97th min equaliser for you tonight haha.
You have anything else on?
Jono
I love Brighton now, too lucky!
Anon
Jono, I cannot see anything but goals in the Chelsea V Swansea game so hopefully I will be smiling at the end of the game. I will be smiling even harder if Swansea go through. A Bradford V Swansea final. Brendan Rogers' face would be a picture if Swansea won the cup. Especially beating Liverpool on the way to winning it.
Sydney!
22 Jan 2013 22:20:43
I was wondering if you guys see Evans as a future captain. He just turned 25 and right now he can only get better in my eyes. Thoughts? Any input is welcomed.
He seems to have the right attitude and mentality to be a captain, also I prefer defenders as captain as they see more of the play infront of them but aren't restricted to moving about the field like a goalkeeper in order to give out instruction. So I think he will be a candidate in the future.
Shappy
22 Jan 2013 20:53:35
if you asked me who has been our best players so far this season i'd say RVP, Rafael, Carrick and Evans. Now obviously RVP signed in the summer but the other three have been at the club for at least five years or more. Interestingly enough Rafael Evans and Carrick are three players who just 12 months ago were being slated for their performances and not deemed good enough or " United quality" but without them this season it is highly likely that instead of being 5 points clear at the top we'd be fighting for a champions league place. And its these players that some were calling to be replaced in the summer, these players that if we win anything this season will be vital to it.
My point is that maybe we should support our players more and be alittle less critical. If the man who has achieved more success than any other deems them "United quality" then who are we to argue, more often than not he is proven right in the end.
So after the next game before you come on here and bash our players stop take a step back and ask why does Sir Alex think they're good enough. Too many times i've seen Cleverley, Welbeck and De Gea all knocked or called not good enough. All these lads have several qualities that Sir Alex feels are of benefit to us, lets stop the bitching as more than likely these lads will be vital to us winning titles and cups in the next few years.
Shappy
Top drawer post. That's the right attitude we should all adopt. People should ask themselves why they're wrong more often than insisting that SAF is.
Nizza
Well said Shapster
AJH
Couldn't agree more Shappy.
Will Red
The most sensible thing I've ever read on the site.
Jimbo
You should all read redrants newest blog-post (I think its redrant.com)
Steffen
Refreshing. If some of you were liverpool fans, I'd hate to think what you'd do to yourselves.
Bernidre
Spot on Shappy
snakey
22 Jan 2013 19:48:03
I seem to be the only person on this site genuinely excited about the possible signing of Zaha.
The lad is raw but has unbelievable speed and really quick feet he dare I say it reminds me a little bit of ronaldo when he came here first very direct and very dangerous.
Our wingers have been dire this season and we are lacking real pace and any player that puts fear into a defence.
Zaha could just could be that man IMO.
Devil Dust.
I think he could be a good player with us, he is a fast skillful player and he would have a big pitch to stretch his legs on.
JK92
I agree, I miss having that player in the final third who scares the life out of defences.
He isn't going to win the Ballon d'or this year but he has bags of potential. We have three wingers who are all 26/27 so a youngster to shake things up would be a good thing.
I think the main problem people have is he isn't and excotic foriegn player. But its important to have good english lads at the club. Some say he is a risk but he'll be a better player than Young, so I think at worst he'll be a valuable squad player at best a vital first teamer. And in the grand scheme of things 12-15m isn't that much in modern football.
If he signs i'll be happily awaiting his debut.
Shappy
He is a good player up until the final third, he can pass, dribble, beat a player and he is very quick, what he has struggled with is his end product, but looked better this season for Palace. Perhaps the perfect time to buy him and if it's only United in for him (we know that now) then the price should be pretty low initially. If he can top his overall play off with a good goal or assist then he will be a top player. Whether he can do that remains to be seen, but he has time on his side. He is only 20.
Sydney!
Wilfried zaha born in the Ivory Coast. Not foreign or exotic enough!
Im not against his signing but he fails to fit the possession style we are supposed to be heading toward. If we are sticking to the 4-4-1-1 then we NEED a couple of CMers of top quality more than running wingers.
I agree shapps we miss as a team someone who can threaten the opposition with speed and directness but with end product. nothing to do with him being English, Isco Rodriguez etc are just all further down the development line to where we would want them now which is what we need IMO.
As someone said though we may have been out priced for the others but it's rare SAF goes with plan see or D.
I just think its a very odd acquisition.
Jono
People also seem to be making the assumption that Zaha is going to be the only winger/forward we are going to sign. I think we'll sign two such players with Zaha being one of them and maybe a more experianced more developed player as well.
Jono, have you watched Zaha? He's perfect for possession football, he never gives the ball away.....not even to his own team mates. Lol.
Shappy
I agree Shappy, but who? I keep coming back to Ronaldo and his current situation. Potential summer of Zaha, Ronaldo and Cabaye - if we are lucky Wanyama too.
Fresh!
It won't be Ronaldo, If we are to ever re-sign him I see it the summer of 2014 when he has one year left on his contract and he could force Real's hand to accept the kind of offer we could afford. I see him stay at Real for one more season despite all the speculation.
If we are to sign another winger in the summer we keep hearing the same old names like Isco Rodriguez Bale and Muinian.
But imo these will all cost too much, Malaga could be forced into selling Isco but with Chelsea and City on his trail it look unlikely that we'll compete for his signature. Muinian was offerered to us but at far too high a price, plus he has a supposed bad attitude. Bale and Rodriguez maybe out of our reach as they are at clubs notorious for getting the most for their players so both would cost close to 40m imo which we can ill afford unfortunately.
The three names I feel are possible are Di Maria, Reus and Gaitan.
Di Maria's future at Real looks uncertian, so he could be looking for a new challenge. Also Real never sell their players for a fortune, look at Sneijder and Van Der Vaart for example.
Reus would be the most differcult to prise away from Dortmund but he has to to worth an attempt as he is probably one of the most inform wide men in the world atm.
Gaitan is the most likely imo, the hype around him has died down and Benfica rely on selling a player nearly every year to raise funds. He would be the most attainable.
Shappy
22 Jan 2013 19:35:00
Here is something for you to think about. Ronaldo was a wonderful brilliant player for us. End of story. He doesn't love us and when he comes to play against us he will be doing his best to knock manchester united out of the Champions League. By all means give him a good reception when he walks out but when the game begins forget about him and support the team. Don't be singing Viva Ronaldo sing songs about players who are wearing the shirt. I AM KLOOT
Will you sing songs for our players after counting how many missed passes a player you got the hump with makes for the first 20 minutes?
Ports
Totally agree with Ronaldo he has affection for utd but that's it.Some fans make me laugh when they think a player loves the club.The only players who really love the club are local lads or lads who supported utd when a kid
Blackpool Red
I don't think Ronaldo loves the club, but I love Ronaldo he is an amazing player and one of the best I've seen at old Trafford. Again kloot, if people want to cheer him and sing Viva Ronaldo (like we do at every game) then what are you going to do about it?
Stop trying to tell fans what to do, it's annoying and makes you sound like a pathetic man.
Love and kisses,
GDS
Frank Stapleton once described on MUTV that although he was United through and through as a boy he also spent 8 or 9 years at Arsenal and had a special place in his heart for them due to the fond memories of his time there and the people right through to the gaffer to the tea lady.
There's no reason why Ronaldo is any different. That said it wouldn't make the slightest difference because he is a pro and a pro would score past their own granny if they had to. I'm convinced he'd be respectfull if he scores but hope we don't get to find out.
I do kind of agree that it would be weird for United fans to be signing a song about an opposing player that used to play for us during the game. Unless of course that player is that twit from Argentina and the songs aren't very nice songs.
Ben {Ed007's Note - All this being 'respectful' after scoring is bollocks Ben, absolute bollocks. If a player scores he should be allowed to celebrate any way he wants, within the rules of the game of course. If Ronaldo scored against Utd to knock them out and celebrated like a monkey on E and then came back to Utd in the summer, who would care about his goal? Should Brazilians or Spaniards not be allowed to celebrate a goal against England if they play in the EPL?}
Disagree with your comments 007 - if a player has been treated well when at a club by the fans and enjoyed his time there it is his decision to respect the fans who once adored him (many still do) and not antagonise fans if he scores . Spanish players who play in the EPL celebrating when scoring against the English team is hardly comparable.
IrishRed
Bond there is a difference in celebrating a goal naturally and doing something like adebayor haha.
I think when ronny scores his first and second he will be quiet but his hat trick goal we may see a fist pump in the air, nothing spectacular like 60 yard run and ten yard slide haha.
I think in this case it would also be a mark of respect to SAF who would already be dealing with Jose jumping around next to him ha.
Jono {Ed007's Note - I know what you mean Jono but I really think it is all complete bollocks Maybe we should go back to the days of a hearty handshake and a 'Jolly well done old bean' followed by tea and crumpets at full time.
It must be younger fans that have been brought up in this era where everything is done softly softly, for fear of upsetting someone, that go along with this kind of nonsense.
22 Jan 2013 19:30:50
We are desperate for a midfielder and we are spending all our time chasing a championship winger. Genius. But here is a worry for some of you girls who get a bit moist at the mere mention of Ronaldo. Would Sir Alex be chasing Zaha if he thought Ronnie was coming back. I AM KLOOT
"You girls who get a bit moist at the mere mention of Ronaldo"
Yet you've brought him up in TWO separate posts in a row after no one has really mentioned him for a while! Bet your ticking off the days on your Ronaldo 2013 Calendar til he returns to Old Trafford.
Ports
Agree KLOOT, yet again this season we're crying out for enforcements in the middle but another attacker/winger?
Makes no sense, especially with him not arriving til the summer.
RED_SKY
22 Jan 2013 20:41:32
As a girl I disagree with that! Now Vidic your talking! Letty
RED_SKY, we have got a summer signing in early, that is the way to look at it mate. Still, I won't be happy until we have signed that elusive midfielder.
Sydney!
We have not bought a winger at the expense of a midfielder though have we, I'm not sure it works like that! If the manager wants to buy a CM now or in the summer he will do so regardless of the Zaha signing. Just because we all want a CM now doesn't mean SAF does.
Gav
Syd,
True, i'm not gutted per se, he's
got a lot of upside but that money
could've been better spent, if we
sign him.
I hope he doesn't stay at Palace though, an injection of new blood could be just what we need to FINALLY get into top gear and start putting teams to the sword!
RED_SKY
Form of our wingers = desperate to bring in a winger... Yes, even a championship winger.
I would love to add Strootman also, but doubt any midfielder will be added till summer.
We probably have enough to get by this season centre mid, wingers are currently letting us down, Evra has stepped up.
DodgyBanter
I think Strootman is a signing that we are probably looking to sort out for the summer. I certainly can't see us signing a central midfielder half way through the season.
Jones has just come back from injury and was excellent against Spurs, Anderson has just come back from injury and was excellent before that injury. Cleverley has formed a good partnership with Carrick, and Carrick has been exceptional. Then there is also Scholes who can still do a job there. So is there an immediate need for a midfielder? I think Sir Alex will see how Cleverley Anderson and Jones do in midfield between now and the end of the season. The a new midfielder will come in during the summer when Scholes and probably Giggs retire.
Shappy
22 Jan 2013 18:59:45
Zaha is a English version of Obertan. I hope I'm wrong!
Karni
Karni, give the lad a chance. At least judge him after a full season in the team.
Sydney!
Syd, during the summer we bid for Hazard and Lucas. We couldn't compete for either. We've gone from bidding for some of the best young attacking players in the world to taking a punt on a very raw championship player. The problem with this is that even if Zaha does eventually develop into a top class player, he is years away from this.
Given the possible terminal decline of Valencia (if rumours of his back problems are true), the immanent sale of Nani and the general inconsistency of Young, we need new wingers who can step right into the first team. What we're chasing is a player who may develop into a first team player in a few seasons. Effectively we're chasing a cheap squad player because the club are unwilling to stump up the cash for the top class midfielders and wingers we so obviously need.
Danny Pughnited {Ed002's Note - There was no bid for Hazard.}
Who goes out and spends 50 million in January?
Look what happened to the last club to blow 50 mill in January...
How do you know we haven't been talking to clubs for players in the summer?
Maybe we're waiting for Giggs, Scholes & Fletcher to make their minds up on their future first, out of respect.
Danny, how do you know Zaha is instead of another top forward/winger?
Hazard & Moura went for excessive amounts. Both bought by club's owned by sugar daddies. We are a self sufficient club, we live within our means. We are not bankrolled by a billionaire who was crying out for a new hobby.
Did we compete for RvP?
Was RvP a cheap squad player with potential or an expensive finished article?
Sydney!
Why do you think RVP is a case that proves your point?
Did we compete for RVP? No. The player decided that we were the club that he wanted to join. If he was in anyway receptive to a move to City they would have outbid us like they did for Nasri.
RVP was not a cheap squad player. The manager clearly asked for funds to make the move but this was not without repercussions. Signing RVP meant that we couldn't bid for a cm (joke bid for Demble) and that we swapped our target from Baines to Buttner, i.e. from a top class lb to a cheap punt.
As you said earlier, Zaha is a much cheaper option than more proven alternatives like Isco, Rodriguez and Goetze. The main difference is that for a player like Zaha we're in competition with Arsenal, for the other options we're in competition with heavy hitters. Maybe this is another acknowledgement that we can't compete at the top end of the transfer market. But it doesn't do anything to solve our current wing problems.
Danny Pughnited
Danny, I agree that the signing of RvP meant we lacked funds in other places, but the club did fail to sell Nani which would have raised a further £23m or so. Like I said yesterday, how do you know we still won't try and sign Goetze when he becomes available? Or any other more established forward/winger?
What amazes me is you are clearly an educated man, like Red Man and still both of you do not understand that we are a self sufficient club. We have spent a net of £130m in the past three summers. That is a very good amount for a self sufficient club. United will continue to target top talent out there, but they will not be held to ransom by agents. We were not outbid by City for Nasri in terms of the transfer fee, each of his three representatives collected £1.7m each from the deal. Why should we be paying over £5m in agent fees?
Also lets remember it's SAF's decision to buy RvP instead of a midfielder this summer and he has had plenty of cash to buy a midfielder before that. So there is only one man who can be blamed for not buying one and that is the man who has chosen not to buy one for the past three summers.
Sydney!
21 Jan 2013 23:48:20
Just replying to ed004's comment on one of my posts way down the page. I agree that Evra is a liability at times, but he has improved. If it was up to me I would sign Baines, but I think the management think that he is over priced. As for signing Shaw, at 17 could he handle being first choice for Man Utd? I certainly would feel vulnerable if our two left backs next year were Shaw and Buttner..
In my opinion, Baines will stay put, Shaw will go to somewhere like Chelsea. We will loan out Blackett and possibly Buttner there by leaving Evra and Fabio as our left backs for next year. It might not be what I want to happen, but I think that it might.
My personal preference would be the young left back whose playing at Porto, his name escapes me right now (annoyingly).
Fresh!
Alex Sandro
Thats the one!
Fresh!
Didnt he join them not too long ago from Santos or some other Brasillian club?? He is a good player going forward but just like Marcelo very dodgy ate the back... I would love Baines.
"The problem with this is that even if Zaha does eventually develop into a top class player, he is years away from this"
Dear God, thank you for answering our prayers, and letting us know how long it will take a player to develop into a world class one. We always knew, dear lord, that it would take many years for a player such as Zaha (forget his huge potential) to reach the top, especially because he breathes English oxygen. If only he would cost a couple more millions. And serves him right, after all he tore our defenders to shreds just over a year ago, which definately means he is years away....
I really don't mean to be patronizing.
Bernidre
22 Jan 2013 18:33:40
Who thinks that rooney should be sold? I'd be happy if we sold him for 50 million and bought in 2 or 3 key signings!
FREDO
Only worth 20 mil tops
Its not the player we used too. Don't know what's up but we badly miss him.
20 million?
Dont be silly
he worth same as henderson or downing?
He is 27, would get 30 to 40 million or wouldn't be worth selling
Will Red
22 Jan 2013 16:58:52
Rafael not picked for the Brazil fixtures. I'm my opinion the best defender I'm the Premeir League and not picked . Shocking !
Do they still blame him for their Olympic loss? Even though they all played bad that day!
22 Jan 2013 16:26:25
Didn't wenger reveal arsenal wanted zaha? Well I'm guessing we have struck a deal after his comments today.
Caolán.
He said he has had an interest in him, today he said he wasn't ever in for him. Both true.
Sydney!
Wenger has been a smart a**. He has just said it to make zaha's price high.. Like SAF has done with charlie adam when liverpool wanted to do a deal on cheap. Fergie couldn't take risk either..
Rodio17
Basically AW is saying he was keeping a watching brief over Zaha, but never acted upon it.
Sydney!
22 Jan 2013 16:24:32
Jono you have said you haven't seen any improvement in DDG's weaknesses well how can you not see any improvements? I can see him improving on the crosses and handling but I think he is just an easy target and the media. All I'm going to say is get behind him. As a fan you should support every player no matter how much you dislike him.
Caolán.
All keepers and players for that matter have weaknesses. Otherwise they'd never get beaten.
I understand where the criticism of De Gea is coming from as he is young and he is learning so he is bound to make mistakes. The fact that the media has jumped on his mistakes has brought his weakness to the attention of other teams thus they are targeting his weaknesses. As such if he is having people taget him more often then the law of averages dictate he will make more mistakes.
I was in agreement with Jono before we signed him in that I would have prefered Rene Adler as he was more experianced and I thought more ready for the challenge. But that boat has sailed for the moment, maybe it'll come back round again or maybe it won't but for now we need to deal with what we have.
Jono asked if De Gea was to be sold would it be classed as a mistake. Obviously it would be, as to whether the mistake was selling him or buying him in the first place we'll only know at the end od De Gea's career.
I think there are four main key aspects of goalkeeping, Shot stopping, Distribution, Aerial ability, communication. If you master all of these than you'll have command of your area.
Now De Gea is one of the best Shot stoppers in the world atm, his distribution is also first class. His weaknesses are his communication and his ability in the air. Now these are actually the easiest of the bunch correct. He isn't good enough in the air as he has come from Spain where you don't have much of an aerial threat. This is something he is learning in england. Second his communication, now it's interesting to note that while he was in Spain he was a vocal goalkeeper, maybe he doesn't feel comfortable which his english yet or maybe coming in to a squad of big personalities and big name players he feels abit overawed and doesn't feel he is able to shout at them like he did in Spain where he was playing with his boyhood club and around players he had known for a long time. His communication will come as he grows more confident in himself as a man and as he intergrates and feels equal to his team mates. This really is just an issue of him being young.
I don't like it when people slate modern keepers for not catching the ball, the balls are quicker and more unpredictable and greasier when wet then they used to be so catching has become a very dangerous option and one I think is only safe when unchallenged for the ball. De Gea hasn't filled out as a man yet so will find it hard to bulk up atm, he will fill out over the next 18 months and will then be able to add the extra bulk needed to compete in the air with the kind of players you only really get in england. Until such time he will struggle with aerial balls as he hasn't got the strength to out fight opponants atm. This is something that the management team would have been aware of before signing him.
This issue we will have to deal with until he fills out, we need to give him more protection from crosses. The full backs need to get tighter and the central defenders need to protect him and win more headers. This also means the midfield need to be more on their toes to pick up the slack for their defensive team mates.
IMO De Gea will be one of the top keepers in the world in a few short years, if it was upto me he wouldn't have been the player i'd have signed as I felt and still do that the enviroment at our club isn't the best for a young keeper to learn in. But he is here now and we need to stick with him.
So many would have given up on Rafeal a couple of seasons ago, and yes he has cost us points and yes he has made mistakes but would any of you swap him for someone else now?
Now as for this idea that De Gea will move back to spain, maybe he will or maybe he won't. It would be difficult for him to move to Real Madrid due to his Atletico connections, Barca prefer to sign Catalan players and have a dislike for players from the capital. It looks like Reina is their first choice anyway. So if Barca would prefer other options and a move to Real being difficult and at least four years away if Casillias has anything to do with it. It looks like he has very few options in Spain where he could play at a similar level to that at Old Trafford. It looks like his short and medium term future is here.
So shouldn't we be doing our best to welcome him and make him feel at home here so if he recieves calls from home in the future his reply is "thanks but no thanks".
Shappy
I do support him and although he is our number 1 I still see no improvement in commanding, speaking, catching, punching, this palming out malarkey or physically.
So pretty much all the areas he was needing to work on after a couple of months.
Jono
Jono
You are very critical of DDGs lack of improvement.
Given these skills can all be coached into a keeper do you feel Eric Steele the Goalkeeping coach has failed, both in his scouting of DDG and his coaching of him since his arrival?
Red Man
Red man
I think the biggest thing he lacks is the bravery and confidence side. This effects so many areas and can't be taught. You either have that instinct or not. Similar to DDG having his reflexes and other keeper don't. If you have a timid player anywhere on the park he is instantly recognisable. If he is in goal it's even worse so mind set is vital.
Do I think Steele has failed? If his training is focused on improving his weakness areas then yes as there is none or very minimal. We are talking 18 months here in a specialised position not a winger who can play differing styles or a defender coached into FB and CB roles etc. there should be marked improvements but I can't see it and his demeanour doesn't fill me with confidence.
Vidics stare at DDG after the goal Sunday says exactly what he thinks aswell.
On the scouting side of it definitely a fail or oversight in what they thought they were getting. It's like when everyone says he needs time to adapt to the league, wel 18 months is a decent spell to show an improvement in areas where there is weakness yet there are still these questions over his head all in the same areas as at the start.
So does the training take the blame or is it down to him? Who knows. I would love to be a fly on the wall for a few days to see as we all would no doubt but we have never produced a world class keeper we have only tweaked big Pete as he already had his style and VDS was already proven.
Look at Barthez. A world cup winner and quality keeper in France yet a shocker over here so nothing can be taken for granted including a young keeper definitely becoming world class.
Jono
Red Man, you cannot teach bravery. That is what Jono has said numerous times on here so Eric Steele couldn't get him over his problem as it cannot be taught. Personally I think you can get braver with age and experience. But I believe Eric Steele overlooked the EPL's brutality. I think he didn't expect him to be as weak as he was last season. I say there has been a slight improvement, but he is still a long way away from where he needs to be.
Sydney!
I think this "bravery" issue will in time be gotten over but it won't happen any time soon. I think the issue with this issue is that he has a small frame as he hasn't filled out into his man's body. Having a small frame going into the kind of challenges you get in the prem means he is likely to get hurt. This is why imo he seems reluctant to go into these sort of challenges.
It's also an age thing to a certain extent. As he gets older he'll gain in confidence and back himself more in these challenges. But until he fills out he will always lack confidence going into battle with fully grown men.
Until then the defence will have to do their best to shield him, there will still be mistakes and there will still be ridicluas good saves. But until he has fully developed as a man we should maybe lay off judging him. Just my opinion anyway.
Shappy
Firstly Vidic stare, well he who is without sin cast the first stone. I recall Vidic making a mess against Torres and Liverpool of all people, also getting sent off and costing a game on more than one occasion, so Vidic is in no place to criticise but he should be talking to DDG and helping him improve.
I was a little disappointed in the punch but there is too much criticism and not enough recognition of the rest of the teams failings, far far too much is laid at DDGs feet.
My opinion is that DDG will also be disappointed and we will see how his determination to improve comes through. I believe he is an outstanding but young keeper on a too fast learning curve with too much expectation too quickly. However right now there are not many I would choose in front of him.
I support him as our number 1 and give him more time because I can see he has talent.
Red Man
Evra gave DDG the most grief which IMO is comical after how poor Evra has been for three seasons now.
Sydney!
Redman
Vida is the captain and so should reserve the right to condemn anything on the park, on top of that Vida has probably cost us far, far less than his performances have saved us.
Keane also cost us some games would you say he then couldn't pour criticism on a player who has made a mistake?
Jono
22 Jan 2013 15:06:54
I wonder if some folks that post on here think? Buying players is not like going to your local supermarket. There aren't little Iscos and Bales and Rodriguez hanging on shelves waiting for the next customer. You seriously be thinking we can buy any player(s) we want? Get a grip you lot. It also baffles me that if there is a potential English talent, everyone is ready to write him off, maybe because he isn't from Spain or Germany. Zaha isn't the finished product yet, but he has all the attributes to become as good (if not better) than CR7 (yes I said it) was for us. Who knew Ronnie would be so great? He was raw and frustrating. Even Gary Neville wrote that he felt like smacking him sometimes. It's quite amusing to see all the 'football managers' determine who will be great and who will never make it, even before they have a chance to.
Bernidre
Thats for clearing all that up Bernidre - contendor for the most patronising post of 2013 and its only January.
IrishRed
Armchair mangers and chief executives
Coaches, chief scouts.
This place is so talanted....
Stagmufc
The OP isn't far wrong in their point though. Some of the "analysis" of potential signings on this page is laughable at times. You have to question whether some people live in the real world.
TK-Red
Might have been said in a slightly patronising way but the sentiment of the OP is spot on.
The amount of people on here writing off zaha because isco and Rodriguez are better, how do we know united haven't spoken to their clubs and been told a ridiculous price and not been able to negotiate? The thing from the OP about them not being in the supermarket is spot on, some people think we are united so we can just sign whoever we want, but it doesn't work like that, especially with the money our rivals at home and abroad have these days.
GDS
22 Jan 2013 18:27:24
i think he's got a point. You can see the influence football manager and fifa has had on some posters who think the transfer process is straight forward. I also agree with the zaha comment. Once we'd have been chuffed at being in for the best young english talent outside the premier league. A kid with massive potential who wants to come. Wages wouldn't be huge. Ok its a good sized fee, but its not all upfront a lot is conditional. Did I mention massive potential? Instead you get people moaning about how we're not after the latest expensive fad spanish player! I'd rather have a team consisting of mainly english/ british players with a sprinkling of top top class foreign players like van persie or vidic. Too many foreign mercenaries and you turn into arsenal. The problem with signing all There foreign players is if they don't settle you have problems. Look at the de gea stories. Back to zaha and united have always had a tradition of going for top young english talent. I remember over twenty years ago we signed the top rated young english centre half. A skinny lad from middlesbrough and we broke the english transfer record to do it. Ok two million is peanuts now but back in the late eighties it was huge. Imagine that now? O no he's not flash and foreign.
Careful Bernidre
I think some of the guys on here are genuinely put out that Fergie has never given them a call looking some advice.
StevieK
22 Jan 2013 14:26:21
Does anyone else think that we should play a similar team and formation against Real Madrid as we did at Spurs? They are relatively similar opponents in terms of their pace, movement and dribbling ability - just the kind of things we struggle with. Yes, I know Madrid are stronger, and that's just why I like the idea of Jones as added insurance in the middle. Carrick and Clevs, who have been great lately, would leave us too exposed through the middle. I wouldn't go down the wingers route as all 3 of our main wingers aren't currently up to it. The only change I would make would be Wazza in for Kags, provided he can show some form in the meantime. I wouldn't drop Welbeck, as he is a real grafter who might be awkward for them to handle.
Yes I do mate. Only with Rooney instead of Kagawa and perhaps Young instead of Welbeck. Substitutes would be easy, when Cleverley starts to slow down replace him with Anderson.
Sydney!
I don't. IMO we need to play the same way as we have in the other big away games this season. Perhaps it might be an idea to play Jones in the middle with Carrick but I think we will need to play on the counter attack and which requires pace on the wings, as we certainly don't have it through the middle. The Madrid full backs will want to get forward so we need to get in behind. I would also restore Rooney upfront, but dropping deep, with RVP and not play him out on the wing.
TK-Red
Rooney for Welbeck and the lineup looks good. Either Rooney or Kagawa could take the place behind RVP.
Devil for Life
We need kagawa to play against Madrid, he can be our Ozil. Especially if we play on the counter attack, he's very fast linking up play. I would have Rvp and hernandez playing ahead for the pace.
sulei
I think Kagawa is struggling with the pace of the game at the moment.
I don't think we will see the best of him until next season, I think he's still trying to get use to the whole premier league package.
I wouldn't play him against Madrid, not to say I don't like him but I would go Rooney and RVP up top. Cleverley, Carrick in the center and Young and Valencia on the wings. Maybe even swap Valencia for Welbeck if Valencia is still struggling.
I would definately think about using Anderson the last 30 mins, all though he isn't my favorite player he always wants to go forward and I think attacking Real Madrid is the best way to go into the game.
Simmo
22 Jan 2013 13:32:15
I don't know if anyone else has picked up but Fulham have reported Man Utd to the FA as certain man united supporters are being allowed to buy tickets for the FA cup tie £5 cheaper than the price Fulham supporters can buy theirs for.
The rules are clear and say:
The Away Club's spectators can only be charged more than the home team if agreed
by both clubs.
It would seem that man united have operated a discount to members buying FA Cup tickets for the last 20 years.
This could get interesting as no doubt every club that has played Utd at Old Trafford over the 20 year period could well be entitled to some sort of compensation if they didn't agree to man united members getting a discount.
It is commonplace to offer dicounts but in my experience the discount is always applied to both sets of supporters. For instance when Southampton hosted Chelsea in the 3rd round they offered a couple of £s off to seson ticket holders who purchased a ticket by a certain date and accordingly Chelsea season ticket holders were offered exactly the same discount
I would say United's cheapest seats will be equal to or cheaper than the away seats. Even if several clubs put in a claim it would be peanuts compared to what a football club can make, especially United. £20k a game, even if ten clubs came forward it would only be £200k. I wouldn't worry about this mate.
Sydney!
Sydney
Its not about what the cheapest seats costs its what is charged for similar seats . man united admit to discounting seats by £5 per member and therein is the problem you can only offer a discount if both clubs agree and there would be no real advantage to say Fulham or indeed any club agreeing to a discount that only applies to Man Utd supporters.
Fa cup cup proceeds are shared so all those that attend an FA cup tie have to pay and its what propotion of those attending benefit from the discount. So say 40000 qualified for the discount and say 2 FA Cup ties per season the figures soon grow .
Do you honestly think that if we've been in the wrong for 20 years no ones said anything or only just noticed now ?
johndenton
But Fulham would only be entitled to half of the difference anyway as it's split 50/50 between both clubs. 50% of the difference if you say is a fiver, then clubs would get £2.50 for every ticket that was sold for less than the Fulham end. It will not be as many as 40,000 tickets per a game. It really is pennies. Even if United did have to pay other teams back half of the difference, it wouldn't be the full amount anyway, it would be a negotiated amount for much less. I would be surprised if we hear anything more about this story in the future.
Sydney!
Sydney
Fa cup recepits past the 3rd round arent split 50-50 the FA take a double digit % so if man united have broken rules in undercharging they, the FA, have a vested interest in claiming any monies back as well as other clubs
The admission about the discount being given to man united members comes from man united itself
Sydney.
The discount was applied to every member that brought a ticket and not just those purchasing a ticket for less than Fulham supporters pay.
Yes the complaint starts from the standpoint that there has been a lesser charge but you can't discount tickets without the oppositions agreement
It will blow over. For a start the Glazers are not going to be accountable for what happened before they arrived. This will blow over.
Sydney!
Its not the Glazers that will liable its Man Utd for the club is a limited company
Manchester United are part of Red Football Joint Venture Ltd, it was set up by the Glazers in 2004.
Sydney!
Matbe but Manchester Utd still trade under the orginal company name
22 Jan 2013 12:27:29
Ed's
Just wondering if you heard or expect any United movement in this transfer window.
I expect a deal to be struck with Zaha as everybody seems a deal is close but half expect him to be loaned back, any chance of any new faces come 1st Feb?
Giants14 {Ed002's Note - I will stick to whatever I previously said.}
Ed
You still suspect movement on the CM front?
Jono {Ed002's Note - Perhaps. There has been no movement recently though.}
I think it's cutting it abit fine for anything to just start now unless it's a move from another team on a summer target.
Could come back and bite us in the ar$e if we don't.
Ed do you know if Chelsea are finished or are they looking for another striker still?
Jono {Ed002's Note - Chelsea are looking to their targets still.}
Jono, what do you make of tonight's fixtures for goals galore? I see goals in the Villa and Blackburn game. I may pick one other game and do a £10 treble. Should get 3/1.
Sydney!
Syd I'm waiting to see the line ups before I touch GG. I think villa may go all guns blazing and hammer Bradford so have a villa-1, brentford, Bournemouth and Celtic-1 coupon with celtic being the one I think might bust it.
Also going to look at Juve -1 in the final but again waiting for line up confirmation. I think Blackburn game will be a cert for both scoring maybe 3-2 Brighton.
Jono
Jono, I also see Swansea V Chelsea being a banker, so may go with Villa/Brad, Black/Bright & Swan/Chelsea over the two days. I should get 3/1, 4/1 if I am lucky. Certainly worth a tenner.
Sydney!
Should get about 3.5/1 I suspect for that. I just put Tunisia, Blackburn games as a yes, villa game as a no for 6.5/1.
Jono
22 Jan 2013 11:47:56
DDG must be one of the youngest goalkeepers to wear no 1 shirt for Manchester utd... I know he makes mistakes but so does every goalkeeper... even the greats who played for utd have done mistakes....
its sad to see gary neville accusing him so much... I wish someone would stand up for the kid and give him some confidence... because if he didn't make those saves he did at spurs we would have been chasing the game...
Aravinda(srilanka)
Schmeichel has, and if I were De Gea I would even listen to Gary nev since he wasnt even a goalkeeper but I would def listen to the best goalkeeper so far to wear the united shirt
James
22 Jan 2013 09:44:05
15 to 20 million for zaha, a bit much for a championship player, i'd rather it went to trying to get isco.
What is it, around 3-4 mil extra and we are talking Isco, 10 mil extra and we are talking Gaitan, 15mil Rodriguez and Goetze. All better deals than a more polished Bebe!
Jono
Jono, if Isco was truly available he would have been purchased by now. Chelsea and City are both interested and both have the cash.
First of all Zaha will not be costing £15m-£20m. You must also consider that Zaha as a package is far far cheaper than any of the players you have mentioned.
Sydney!
We should be buying serious talent not an over rated championship player.
Syd there is a reason he is cheaper mate and lets be honest in a straight up choice of any of the above Zaha would be bottom.
I though Isco had a buyout clause that they were trying to extend with a new deal as its relatively low just now?
Jono
No name, I agree, I would take Isco or Rodriguez over Zaha, but Isco clearly isn't available and Rodriguez would be a huge investment. Five times the total cost of Zaha. I am not certain Zaha is the only player of this type that we will be buying in the next couple of windows.
Sydney!
Jono, Isco needs to want to move and I do believe buyout clauses outside of Spain or Portugal (I think) mean nothing. The way I see it is if he was available and it was as easy as that, Chelsea would have signed him by now.
Sydney!
22 Jan 2013 01:02:22
g.A.G.U.S
Haha that statement has a word from fergie written all over it!
Jono
----------------------
A word from Fergie? I think you're reading into things too much. So Fergie told him to write that? Moments before he tweeted that he was still talking about how he could've done better.
G.A.G.U.S
I don't know mate he went from slating it on Sunday after the game and picking out DDG specifically to not mentioning his part at all, in fact reinforcing the fact he thinks he will be a top keeper.
When asked specifically on DDG he paused, thought, then started praising him for what he can be potentially.
That was too big a swing IMO to not have had a little input by fergie. We all know its fergie that likes to keep control of the media and G Nev is just another avenue he can manipulate.
Jono
Jono,
After the game Neville was visibly gutted that we lost the lead and wasn't talking much sense. He even suggested Dempsey should have dived to win a penalty.
I think he has had time to think and calmed down before last night that's all.
GDS
GDS, perhaps a little naive there mate, no offense when I say that. It's pretty obvious SAF has chewed his ear off about him slating DDG. SAF knows that DDG playing well is key for us to win the league, he will not want him unsettled, especially by an ex-United player on TV. DDG was at fault for that goal, it wasn't all his fault, but he was more at fault than anyone else and if Neville thought that at the time, then he thinks that now. After all DDG was partly at fault. For him to not mention DDG is very odd. That said I was disappointed Neville did criticise DDG as he knows it could damage our run-in. Neville may have realised this himself and didn't want to criticise him again, but my gut tells me SAF got on the blower to him and gave him the bollocking of his life. Part of me hopes he did too.
Sydney!
Given Jono's obsession and depresive negativity re for example DDG,
Is he by any chance, the son of Kloot?
Mike
How about Neville's comments since then? Saying that DDG's teammates will hold him accountable and he will HAVE to improve and quick? Was that from SAF too? That is the kind of talk we mock Liverpool fans for.
TK-Red
TK, that's why I said 'IF' Neville didn't criticise DDG. But going by tv he did stick with his original opinion. I am bitterly disappointed that he is unsettling DDG like this and I imagine he will be receiving words pretty soon for the manager.
Sydney!
{Ed007's Note - I was sent the link to this today, sorry if you guys have seen it.
What I would give to have them players in their prime in today's squad...
It would bring the passion and excitement back...
We lost the passion a bit
Red
But did you spot kloots jester hat?
O and David Tennant was brilliant in that.
22 Jan 2013 00:25:16
I know Luke Shaw is going to be a quality left back and a definite future international, but everyone keeps going on about buying established players instead of players with potential, so why do we want potential all of a sudden?
Hoppy
Hoppy,
For me I would prefer Shaw because I have never rated Baines as highly as some people, I think people get blinded by his set pieces and goals he scores/sets up but for me defensively he isn't as good as some other LB's. Scoring goals and set pieces isn't where we are lacking. Shaw so far in his career has shown good defensive qualities, positioning, strength etc but does also offer something going forward.
I think we can play a young full back if we have established CB's which we do, for me we need an established player in the centre of the park.
Shaw will be better then Baines so I hope we could tie him up sooner rather than later, he has had good schooling at Southampton and hopefully can be taken to the next level with us.
Ports
22 Jan 2013 11:54:45
but those established centre backs won't be around for much longer
In terms of Vidic and Rio yes, but Evans has really stepped up this year proving to be an established CB and Smalling, although young, by the end of 2013-2014 season will be an established CB, playing regularly for United and England.
Shaw can have a season debutising Evra, learning and getting more game time as Evra winds down much like Ferdinand is doing and then be No. 1 LB for the 2014-2015 season.
Ports
21 Jan 2013 23:40:37
Jono, David de gea was watched for months by Eric Steele one of the best goalkeeping coaches about. Having seen de gea for months he would have know crosses wise not the best in the world but his shot stopping is second to none. Can you name me a keeper in the premier league who can make some of the saves he does? I think the main reason he is uncomfortable on crosses is to due with that fact he isn't naturally fluent in English like quite a few Spanish. He is a goalkeeper who gets so much stick for one reason his price tag. Well for us spend a lot of money now a days the player must be world class or have the potential to be. De gea reminds me exactly off a young Casillas. When has Iker ever thought through bodies to reach the ball never!
De gea received criticism from Gary Neville, but the thing is Gary Neville spent most of his career with two of the best keepers to ever play for us in big Pete and Edwin. Both of them have said de gea should be number 1 and that is good enough for me to stand by him. I stood by him from day one because the talent is there to see and he has saved us more points than he has lost us. The only goalkeeper in the modern day who is great at coming for the ball is Manuel Neur. He is German it's how they play. De gea is Spanish and well quite frankly I don't know many big imposing Spanish keepers who can come for a ball taking whoever is in his way with him.
Caolán.
Caolan
It's nothing to with his price tag for me it's more his weakness areas not improving and the long term personal plans he may hold.
You said yourself coming and claiming is in your opinion a German thing so if Eric knows the prem (which I guarantee he does) he would know its a massive side to it. So did he just ignore this in favour of a young shot stopper? If so then he shouldn't be taking part in the process as the area of commanding, authority, aerial ability and presence is just as important as stopping shots.
Adler was always my choice and I would never have wanted Casillas at Utd and why? Because he couldn't handle it in this league IMO.
What's the answer to my question for you. If SAF sells him where will you ly? Will you challenge SAF and his sanity OR will you think well SAF must think he is not up to it and follow the manager?
Jono
Caolan, in all due respect DDG would not have faced the challenges from crosses in La Liga like he does in the EPL. I think and it's just my opinion, I think they overlooked it and although they knew he needed work, I do not think they thought commanding his area was going to be a problem of his.
Sydney!
Jono,
What you may think about his pesonal ambitions is only your opinion. Doesn't make it true. Reina has been in the league for so long and hasn't asked for a move back, even though he is stuck with the crap at Liverpool. DDG could be the same.
Who are you to question the judgement of our goalkeeping coach and whether he should be part of those decisions? Eric Steele gets paid a lot of money to do just 1 thing, watch goalkeeping targets and try and improve the ones we have. I would assume he would know a hell of a lot more about GKs than you, or even SAF for that matter.
While watching De Gea, he could have seen everything he was looking for. At Atletico, without the language barrier, he could have commanded his area brilliantly. There are no aimless crosses in Spain so he couldn't have been assessed in that respect. I'll give you that.
If SAF does go ahead and sell DDG this summer, I would consider it a mistake because it would mean that DDG wasn't given a fair chance to improve. Imagine if we had sold Ronaldo at the age of 20 just because RVN and half the squad at the time had an issue with his showboating. He was given time and look what happened. And yes, before you bring it up, it it took a lot longer than 18 months.
Now you answer me this, both Schmeichel and VDS have said De Gea should be no. 1 and is the best keeper at Utd. Do you accept that or do you think they are stupid to not pick your man-crush "Linders"?
Where is my man crush on Linders come from?
I have said tht the no1 has to be decided on merit not just because one keeper has been deemed a world great in the making. My defense of Linders was simply down to the fact many on here tore him to shreds whilst promoting their prefered favourite DDG where he has shown to be just as weak in important areas.
Take the QPR goal Linders palmed into mackies path nothing but Linders fault then DDG does it three times yet it's every man and his dogs fault before DDG.
As I said I just want a bit of perspective brought into the debate instead of the blinkers on when discussing DDG.
If anything I've displayed a man crush on Adler not linders.
Jono
Jono,
I never for a second thought Lindegaard made a mistake. Quite the opposite actually, it was a good save just like De Gea's against De Guzman and De Gea's against Silva and Tevez. It was unfortuante that the balls fell to opposition players. The ONLY mistake in there was his push out against Newcastle that allowed Perch to score.
The only issue with Lindegaard is that he has shown absolutely nothing to suggest he deserves to be no.1 He is solid but does nothing out of the ordinary. De Gea pulls off miraculous saves regularly and that's why people rate him so much. Trust me, once he sorts out his cross-handling and communication, he will be the best keeper the world has seen since Schmeichel.
I was of the same opinion as from that range he couldn't do anything but palm it away from goal unlike the DDG efforts but that still doesn't detract from the others on here that hammered him for it.
I'm not for one second championing Linders for our number 1 I think that we should replace DDG with an out and out No1 who is complete or next to complete as a player. If that's someone who is not as good as DDG in shot stopping so be it as long as he is far better at the other areas DDG is weak in.
Most of the best keepers around are good - great in all areas rather than good - great in one or two.
Jono