Manchester United Banter Archive July 22 2015

22 Jul 2015 22:50:39
I thought I would open up a debate that will hopefully still be near the top of the Banter page come the morning.

My question is, are we actually getting a good deal by selling Di Maria for say, £50 million, and buying Pedro for £22 million.

Di Maria is a tremendously creative player, but Pedro is also. Pedro offers the added bonus of 15 goals a season - his record for Barcelona is excellent - around 100 goals in 300 games and he has been a fairly consistent performer.

I'm beginning to think selling Di Maria and buying Pedro could actually be a good move for us.

22 Jul 2015 23:06:52
If Di Maria doesn't want to be at United it's a no brainer .

22 Jul 2015 23:07:38
Yes pedro might actually want to play for us rather than stropping around sulking because he didn't get his first choice move to Paris.

22 Jul 2015 23:11:36
I think it's a tremendous piece of business if it happens. Pedro will fit perfectly into the 433 formation that LVG wants to play. That enough full stops GDS2 ?

22 Jul 2015 23:16:32
Completely agree, when I spoke on another forum about Pedro a year ago I got shot down because of Di Maria, I wonder how many would take them comments back now if they could.

22 Jul 2015 23:17:16
Most definitely. I've always rated Pedro and don't think he's far behind ADM - if at all.

I had a similar thought regarding DDG today. For a while I've been wanting us to keep him and let him go on a free next summer - but today asked myself - would I rather see him go for £25m and us sign Lloris for £35m this summer or DDG go for free next summer and us sign Lloris for £35m?

I don't see DDG signing a new contract if we do make him stay - so our choice seems to be keep a player against his will and lose out on £25m+ in 12 months time or sign a player who wants to play for us for a net spend of £25m+ less than the amount we will probably end up signing him for next summer anyway.

There are only six keepers I consider to be truely world class. One of those is very near the end of his career (Buffon), one of them just moved (Cech), one of them wants to leave us (DDG), two of them won't leave the clubs they are at (Courtois and Neuer) and the other is Hugo Lloris.

22 Jul 2015 23:18:13
Fresh, IMO Pedro would be good player to sign due to his experience quality track record he may never be first choice but gets his quota of games and always makes a decent contribution but we could get him for 18m.
On di Maria, if he wants to stay then he has to do a lot better which I believe he can do, however, if we can get 50m for him and he wants to leave it would be a great deal. IMO we vastly overpaid RM and we are vastly overpaying di Maria so to get so much back and a massive wage off the books with all that money I would only replace him with bale

22 Jul 2015 23:20:05
Selling di Maria for 50 mill is good for us no matter who comes in or does not. He will struggle to get into this team next year and will see his value plummet with another poor season, which i expect if he stays.

22 Jul 2015 23:26:02
I agree, if it came to the fact we had to sell Di Maria because the player wants the move then pedro for that price is a tremendous buy. I still don't want Di Maria to go because I want him to prove himself which I think he is more than capable of. But for the price and availability, pedro would be a great buy. He has been at the top of the game regarding honours one and consistency for a number of years now.

22 Jul 2015 23:29:52
Not really a stats man myself, (Take Falcao for instance), saying Pedro will bring 15 goals a season is still a bit thumb in the air. La liga is dirrerent to the PL and Barca even more so. I asked a few questions the other day about Pedro. Will he have the same protection from Pl referees as he would have for barca. Is he robust enough? Will he be able to draw fouls/free kicks as he would in la liga given the different refereeing style? I think not. That's why I'd go all out for 1st muller who can play right side (which is a slight problem area currently) or he can play down the middle. If not then I'd go more for all out striker who can hold up the ball. Lewandowski, zlatan (for a year or two), cavani, Benzema, in that order. Apparently Sergio romero is Al but done and his agent is raiola, who also happens to be zlatans agent, and dare I say it . You know who, not going to mention his name but rhymes with Drogba.

23 Jul 2015 00:57:59
If we sell di Maria for close to £50m and also move Rafael and Evans on, we will be at zero transfer cost this summer, plus we will have removed some extremely big salaries. It should therefore allow us to spend £100m+ more on the right players. Pedro would be just a small part of that. There could be 1 or 2 more seriously major stars being arriving more suited to the EPL than Di Maria.

One way or another, LVG has clearly assessed his squad and the exigencies of the league, and is ruthlessly reshaping it to succeed on all fronts. There is no point in keeping Di Maria if he wants out. And if we end up getting £50m then it will pretty much cancel out the outstanding transfer cost balance on the books. It makes a lot of sense from every angle.

It may yet all end up in tears, but somehow I think not. We're going to see a squad that plays more exciting football, and concedes fewer and scores more goals, making a challenge on the league title quite possible. If not, LVG won't be at United next season.

23 Jul 2015 10:20:23
Agreed Shaw thing.

Di Maria, Evans and Rafael between them will probably fetch £65 million and we have spent £70 million(ish).

I still think three or four will come in.

First in will be Romero to replace Valdes. Then I'm hoping we can still get a deal for Otamendi done.

Pedro looks odds on to join which I very much hope is the case and then a move for a big name like a Ronaldo, Bale or Ibrahimovic would top of a very good summer.

Woodward said he would sign one Gaalactico a year, and unless that is Schweinsteiger he hasn't done that yet.

23 Jul 2015 10:33:46
His record is 58 in 204

23 Jul 2015 13:36:02
If we keep ADM, we will all be having the same conversation in 12 months time. By which time, he'll be worth half the money due to below average performances.
You can see it in his eyes and body language, he does not want to be here, so please open the preverbial barn door and get rid.

22 Jul 2015 22:18:57
Has anybody else heard about Ronaldo now being made Real Mad Captain and not Ramos .Spanish press is mad tonight !!

22 Jul 2015 21:03:40
Sometimes it is interesting to reflect on what is in front of you and today I did just that. No one knows what is going to happen but if I put a few things together it does point in a direction which isn't expected but could be more possible looking at the picture. Certainly I don't think LvG will give the target away just yet.

Let's start by saying we are fast approaching 1st August when Uniteds new kit will likely be unveiled. Maybe I missed it but surely that will be a major event and it cannot have gone unnoticed that Madrid unveil players in far more pomp and ceremony than we do, something I would imagine a kit provider might be more happy with than a few pictures with a scarf. So it makes sense to have the kit launched at a major event asap on or after 1st August. The club owners are masters of commerciality so I can't see the kit being launched with Lorrente or Pedro, surely Adidas will want a spectacular opening. No problem parading the engine room as we have been able to get them on board and inducted. However the true face or faces of the new kit will surely be shown to the world in a blaze of glory in the newest shirt.

So who is it. The dancing around by LvG, it is, it isn't a striker has the hacks all over the place, nicely putting them off the scent for a few more days until 1st August. Before dismissing this, can anyone remember a less glamorous or publicised pre season tour? After all why would United do any more than contractually obliged to for Nike who, by all accounts have proved awkward over the final date of the contract.
Let's now consider recent events. Casillas shunted out of Madrid riled his agent, an agent who has been integral in Madrid for years and who then hit out at them. However it highlighted the image rights deal that Ronaldo had openly signed with Peter Lim's company and Casillas's agent clearly thought it would bring about Ronaldo leaving. Let's also remember Peter Lim is close to the main class of 92 at Salford City, involved previously with Red Cafe and presently with Hotel Football next to OT, the same Peter Lim who bought Valencia and appointed Phil Neville as assistant manager.

Now back to Ronaldo, with his new image rights deal, starts the pre season as less than the main man. Suddenly Perez has Bale in that position, so apparently does Benitez and that is where Bale starts. That doesn't strike me as where Ronaldo wants to be, especially with a new image rights deal. In all of this Peter Lim knows Ronaldo's agent Mendes. Worth then asking whether Ronaldo will leave or whether Perez will buckle and put him back to his No1 status. It isn't about Bale not passing to Ronaldo but to me it appears to be who is the biggest star. Ronaldo has options, his left knee has had problems so can he really hack a swan song in our league or will he chance PSG? Or will he use leverage to get his own way? Whichever way, will the loss of Madrid's cash cow Ronaldo concern their hierarchy enough to see a threat to Perez being pushed out before Ronaldo or will they sacrifice Bale, who despite being given such a status, is seen waiting outside a dressing room for the autograph on a shirt of another player, something that Madridistas will not necessarily see as a strong image from their supposed main player at what they consider to be the worlds biggest club.

So having analysed all that it points to Ronaldo, however it wouldn't surprise me if the pressure on Perez to keep his cash cow may see Bale sacrificed no matter what Benitez thinks.
I would not therefore be surprised to see Bale stood in an Adidas United shirt on 1st August, because Lorrente would just not have the same impact and Bale is and isn't a striker.

22 Jul 2015 21:19:25
Good post red Man but lvg, if he's to be believed, did say that it will be someone the media have not mentioned. And as you know, the media have been putting us in with Bale for the past 6 months.

22 Jul 2015 21:20:01
i don't buy into the whole adidas thing, there is no way a club would risk losing a player or a player getting injured or miss the chance to get a player in training and games at united just so we can unveil him in the new kit .
can u imagine if we had a 80 mill deal in place for bale and he done his knee while we waited for the new kit deal to happen .
could you keep a deal for ronaldo quite , would city and psg not be all over it .

22 Jul 2015 21:24:25
People are looking into this adidas deal far too much. I work in the "fashion industry" (quotations as I hate the term) and I know adidas are not interested in the so called big player.

I've seen next seasons kit and it is very basic and classic. I was told by adidas "this one is simple, everyone will buy it anyway. Next year we introduce design to make sure they buy it again".

I wouldn't get drawn into any kind of 'adidas embassador signing' as it is a load of rubbish.

22 Jul 2015 21:39:17
Love the theory Redman, I've been saying for a while now that we wl sign bale, ed002 said a couple of months back that rm would sell but only at a high price, unfortunately rafa told Pérez that he wants to build around bale. IMO the deal with ddg will go through and we will sign bale to coincide or just post the Adidas launch.
I believe what ed002 said was true at that time but circumstances may have changed, as reported by ed001 yesterday I think.
Pérez could come out a hero signing ddg and then Ramos to a new deal and sacrificing bale in order to keep their beloved captain.

22 Jul 2015 22:12:17
I'm with you redman. I think it's either Bale or Ronaldo

22 Jul 2015 23:10:07
Benitez is a yes man and is only there keeping the managers seat warm for someone else to sit in in 12 months time. In short he'll do whatever Perez says.

22 Jul 2015 23:39:58
Don't believe our signings have anything to do with Addidas. If bale or Ronaldo move it will be for footballing reasons and not sponsorship stuff. Ronaldo imo is untouchable and madrid can say what they want but bale would go if someone cmd up with a number that was acceptable.

22 Jul 2015 19:40:42
Have we been linked with hulk? Just saying, don't really want him, but I'm trying to think of names we haven't been linked with.

22 Jul 2015 20:54:45
Not a fan of Bruce Banner myself.

23 Jul 2015 06:15:02
He is very temperamental although ha can't half smash it !

22 Jul 2015 16:29:18
From the game this morning, one thing that alarmed me greatly was how much we pass back to the keeper. Johnstone probably had as many touches as any player last night. It's something I find very frustrating in our play, especially last year, it's something Daley blind does a lot of. Am I the only one that finds this really frustrating?

22 Jul 2015 17:01:08
Me too why do they pass it between the back four and the keeper .Its asking for trouble none of them look comfortable .

22 Jul 2015 17:04:40
Gone are the days of direct attacking play of Fergie. We have different style under LVG. We need to come out of the Fergie era effect when anytime a player got a pall the next free player ahead of him was the sure receiver. We don't play like that anymore. We keep haggling the opponent off the ball. We need to learn to appreciate what we are doing. We have been less surprising but effective. I feel the goals have dried up because of that. But, it is also due to the fact players are new to this style. We have been improving that's for sure. And I personally find it ridiculous to criticize the team this early. Players are just getting into the groove of playing again.

22 Jul 2015 17:11:55
"Johnstone probably had as many touches as any player". Watch the game back, count how many times, and you'll realise how ridiculous a claim that is Caolan.

They are midway through their season, we are midway into our second week of preseason. They had the ability to press the ball all night long, meaning sometimes we had to go back.

Don't judge the way we play on preseason matches. You'd think people would have learnt this after last year.

23 Jul 2015 00:48:35
MPez, its not a judgement, it is an observation on my behalf. Last night even Lou Macari said at half time Johnstone probably had as many touches as any player in that first half. I am not judging the team at all based on pre season, I just think we play the ball back to our keeper a lot. If you re watch some games from last season you will see what I mean.

22 Jul 2015 16:14:01
Well I've just joined the fantasy league guys, I didn't have to change my team once cz of overspending either, must a first, bring it on cz I'm going to be the champion of the worllllddddd!

22 Jul 2015 16:53:03
A fantasy in fantasy :P

22 Jul 2015 18:36:28
Haha your prob right mbd.

22 Jul 2015 14:31:27
I can't understand peoples reactions to LVGs Sweinsteiger criticism, one poster even said something along the lines of you can't criticise a player that's won everything. Of course you can if he's not performing, he looked laboured and a yard of the pace last night, which is a concern, as San Jose were extremely poor. On a plus note Carrick was bossing the midfield in the first half, and I just hope he can stay fit for longer this term, as he's integral when we are playing well.

22 Jul 2015 15:30:52
Boggles my mind as well.

22 Jul 2015 15:39:27
Carrick was bossing the midfield, in your words against an extremely poor San Jose.

That you still need to rely on a player like Carrick shows you remain along way from breaking your trophy less period.

Trying to buy a title, tut tut.

22 Jul 2015 15:49:27
No one is above criticism, end of.

Schweinsteiger will know himself if he was below par or not. I didn't see the game, only the highlights, so I can't comment.

22 Jul 2015 15:52:29
Lvg is a grown man. During his criticism of him he also praise his first performance. Maybe it's his way of sing just that he has managed him before doesn't mean he gets special treatment. I'm warming to lvg every week and I want someone not afraid to speak out like mourinho does. After all it is a pre season friendly. Not sure he would say the same thing after a major final.

22 Jul 2015 16:08:52
Seems like nach is the new resident 'negative ninny' on the site, looking down the posts today he's called LVG an absolute disgrace, said Rooney hasn't got it anyway and said he wants him sacked and replaced by Klopp if we are not playing the best football in the world, all this based on 2 pre season games where players have had 45 minutes to try and get match sharp.

Anyone who looked off the pace last night will be put through their paces in the next couple of weeks I am sure, we know LVG doesn't stand for players being unfit.

22 Jul 2015 16:24:32
Totally agree.

22 Jul 2015 16:47:29
Marcellus let's see how chelski would do without Hazard? Also i'm watching the Barca-Galaxy match and Rakitic is pulling all the strings, every team has an engine, and Carrick is ours, plus we've now got Scweinsteiger so if Carrck can't play we've got an automatic replacement, and as GDS said LVG will get him fit. Also I agree totally with Supasub.

22 Jul 2015 17:14:31
GDS2 I don't think I'm the only one on this site who thinks rooney is past it and I'm definitely not the only who thinks criticising players to the media is wrong and I've always loved the way klopp sends his teams out to play football I also said I would rather LVG was doing well so it never came to it that he got axed I'm just a die hard supporter like yourself who wants what's best for the club ps the sites all about opinions and we've all got different ones that's what makes it such a great site

22 Jul 2015 21:34:04
Full stops?

22 Jul 2015 11:44:33
I hope this mystery player is Domenico Berardi and her is why;

1) Berardi reached 30 goals in Serie A aged 20y 9m, Messi did the same in La Liga aged 20y 8m but with 12 more appearances.

2) Berardi is a quick, technically gifted right winger who scores goals and gets assists - something most agree we need (13/14 -

22 Jul 2015 14:46:42
Exactly, sod Pedro, we want Berardi! Go get him Louis!

22 Jul 2015 15:26:53
Pedro is a decent player but the only reason I think we are signing him is because he plays the Barcelona way which we are trying to imitate badly.

22 Jul 2015 11:24:00
I am starting to think that LVG only wants to sign players who can have more than one role at the club. Last year he bought Blind (LB, CDM, CB). Rojo (CB, LB) ADM (LW, RW, CM, CAM).

This year he has bought Darmian (RB, CB, LB), Schneiderlin (CDM, CM) and Depay (LW, CAM, ST?).

That is 17 positions covered with 6 players, not to mention the players we already had that he has tried to move around multiple times. The way he uses the squad means we could have a squad of 24 but the cover of 50 positions which really does make us strong.

I can't think of another team with the flexibility we have. It will serve us well in the coming season on all fronts.

I know we signed Falcao who was just a striker but he failed to get into the team and Shaw may be the exception as he is exclusively a LB but maybe the links to Muller make the most sense as he can play RW or ST. Wont get him but it makes sense.

How many players on the market who we have been linked with have multiple positions?

22 Jul 2015 11:50:31
That is why I think we are interested mostly in Muller and Pedro.

The two of them would more than replace Di Maria who for me is a dead cert to leave.

22 Jul 2015 07:36:34
lvg now saying were not in for a striker, I wish he would make his mind up because he's doing my head in now, if we don't sign another striker another trophy less season is on the cards.

22 Jul 2015 07:59:14
I'd say he's doing a perfect job of winding up the media.

22 Jul 2015 09:11:43
He's an absolute disgrace criticising players in front of media he should be saying how he feels behind closed doors it's only preseason and he's calling a player that's win every thing in the game very bad maybe it was to do with the players beside him the young boys were terrible apart from pereira and smalling so annoying he tries to do bursts of pace from defense and when he gets away he plays back the way or sideways what is the point but my gripes with LVG you shldnt be criticising players in front of media

22 Jul 2015 09:22:01
BIGAL,

What about the day before when he said we are in for a striker? Surely you have realised now the man is just on a total wind up of the media, they know absolutely nothing and he keeps telling them they are 'making things up'. His press conferences are a joy to watch, unfortunately because the media guess about the things he says it gets people all hot under the collar and hanging on his every word which gets a bit embarrassing.

22 Jul 2015 09:31:50
nach. you take his comments out of context. read past the headlines and see what was really said.

22 Jul 2015 09:33:47
nach,

You are going to get very annoyed this season then aren't you, he is well known for doing it to get a reaction. Schweinsteiger wasn't as good last night as he was in the first game. He also gave an excuse as to why and said it is difficult to only train for a few days and then come in and play so it's expected. Did you listen to the full interview or just pull the 'he played very bad' quote out?

22 Jul 2015 09:48:22
@nach73 who did criticise and what was said ? didn't see the post match interview

22 Jul 2015 11:59:35
The manager shouldn't be making comments like that to the media. Someone above posted that it is to get a reaction, well that's just ridiculous. How would you like it if you were a new employee and your boss stood up infront of the entire office, store or whatever and complimented a few workers then told everyone you were doing a bad job? He has to more classy to lead this club in my opinion.

22 Jul 2015 12:46:44
All he said was he didn't play well because he's only been with the club and only trained for less than a week.

It was a fair assessment to a question. I'd rather have honesty than a manager blowing smoke up someone's arse.

Some of you get your knickers in a twist over anything.

22 Jul 2015 12:49:59
if I was on 200k a week I wouldn't care yez, but that's besides the point.

22 Jul 2015 13:01:02
YEZ,

Oh for God sake, these aren't working in an office or stacking shelves at a supermarket, they are playing football at the top level. LVG said he wasn't happy with the whole team in the 2nd half and said they were bad and gave the ball away too much (which is spot on), he was then asked specifically about Bastian, what was he meant to say? 'Oh no, I didn't mean him, just all the others.'

22 Jul 2015 13:25:38
I agree with nach and given our spend levels in the last 3 windows and the players accumulated the only thing that will undue this team is LVG's mouth and his incredible ability to alienate players. He needs to shut his mouth and talk about individual performances behind closed doors.

I have from a very reliable source he will get the boot if by christmas we are not challenging for the title and there is additional rift in the ranks amongst players. watch that space as 2 top managers are on a sabbatical and waiting in the wings.

22 Jul 2015 14:28:12
GCU it's not just being in contention for the title by Xmas but the football well be playing I'm hoping for exciting expansive football not just possession and waiting for an opening I want us to go all out attack especially against mid table teams and if we aren't doing it then I will be all for a change especially if we can get klopp if we got him we would get hummels and reus add that to our squad we have already got we would probably have the third best squad in europe behind only barca and real but I'm getting a bit ahead of myself here lol

22 Jul 2015 16:52:20
I like his honesty I would also go as far as saying scweinsteiger looks overweight and what did he say that was that bad

22 Jul 2015 23:31:21
Show me another manager who criticises a player in pre season after the player has only had 3 or 4 days with a team. He is nuts and needs some medication. What does he gain by saying something or for a matter of fact what does anyone gain including the player and team mates from something like this.

He is the opposite of fergie, who never did stuff like this and why one is teaching at Harvard Business school about leadership and this guy will be teaching at some community college about divisive tactics lol.

22 Jul 2015 05:58:11
Ander Herrera is class!! I am eager to see him with schneiderlin in front of carrick/shweinsteiger. Memphis looks like he will be dangerous too! I love Juan Mata but it would be good to see a more direct and quick player in there to add a bit more speed and drive to our attack. A front 6 of MC/BS, Herrera, schneiderlin, Memphis, Rooney, Di Maria would be awesome! Plenty of energy and quality in the middle and pace and power in the front 3. Although he has been playing more of a 4-4-2 so far I do think he'll go back to a 4-3-3 looking formation come the start of the season

22 Jul 2015 06:14:20
I agree about mata, and I am starting to understand why Mourinho sold him (which I couldn't understand at the time), but he's too slow and not quick enough with his decision making. However technically he's brilliant. Herrera is a dream to watch though absolutely.

22 Jul 2015 10:47:38
Mata is quality, but his pace and strength really does let him down for me. If he had more power he would be as good, or close to, David Silva IMO. But he is missing them key ingredients which aren't so easy/near impossible to attain.

I don't think we should be looking To offload him but I don't think he should be an automatic starter. He could possibly be played as a number 10 but I wouldn't drop any other midfielder for him to play there. It's a tricky one because him and Herrera link up really well!

Only way I can see him fitting in is:

______MC/BS______
____AH____MS____
_______JM________
___WR_____MD____

But that looks far too narrow! I think he will struggle to get playing time this season!

_______MC/BS_______
_____AH____MS______
_ADM__________MD__
_________WR________

22 Jul 2015 05:07:10
mephis looks a very good player, but will need to improve his decision making aand passing, but very composed in front of goal. Jones has been very solid, Young and Shaw dominating the left wing. Matas done ok, his cross/shot goalwas his best contribution. Carricks been dominating the midfield. Schneiderlin did well making a few interceptions but was at fault for the goal. Rooneys been dropping too deep imo, but having said that our play has been excellent, and he's been integral in parts. Blinds done well, not had too much to do though. I like the looks of Darmian, reminds me of Gary Neville, Johnstone has done very well,and has coped with pressure excellently, would like to see him tested more with shots, but he looks a very good prospect. Bring on the second half.

22 Jul 2015 00:43:09
Llorente? Let's hope that's not the mystery striker. Otherwise we should look for a mystery manager to replace lvg!!