Manchester United Banter Archive June 22 2014

22 Jun 2014 18:28:20
Hey guys!
Not so much a rumour on the transfer front but I live in Australia and over the last couple of days it has been widely reported here that an envoy from the Manchester United camp by the name of Jonathan Rigby has been shown around the major venues such as the MCG and the Etihad stadium in Melbourne. He has also been introduced to A-league clubs by major Australian Soccer officials and has been photographed leaving training camps alongside former devil Mark Bosnich and Aussie legend Ned Zelic. Claims made in the South Australian press today report that the united entourage will travel to Adelaide on Tuesday with the view of meeting Adelaide united officials to discuss a potential partnership as well as inspecting the newly built Adelaide oval. With Manchester City investing in the Melbourne Heart football club could United be planning a similar deal in order to make sure the United brand remains on top down under?

JohnnyDevil

Ed Woodward is flying in to join them on Tuesday. They are hoping to finalise a deal t bring Emile Heskey back to England, as there is no value in the European market.
Should get him for a pallet of 4X and two dozen sheep.

Quality Betty, raising the bar, just spat my wine out

Sorry buddy, I would never encourage wasting any alcoholic beverage :)

22 Jun 2014 18:03:50
"Louis Van Gaal reportedly wants Wayne Rooney to play in midfield at Manchester United next season. It's led to problems in the past, and Sports Journalist Bill Bradshaw has told Sky Sports News Radio that it could mean he looks elsewhere."

No confirmation, but it is what most of us on the site believe will happen. Will he play midfield for LvG? He didn't want to for SAF. Could this lead to more Chelsea bids this summer?

Syd
I have read the article and it is the type of thing you have pulled apart in the past .
Not a source a comment or anything just a journos opinion (mata).
also it was the deep lying playmaker role in front of the back 4 .
But I suppose its different if it something you think might happen?

On a different note the same paper had a story that an inside united source has said united will not sign any players over 28 due to no sell on value

Oh no, not again! You wouldn't be trying to provoke another Rooney debate, would you Syd?.
I seem to remember someone even suggested the Eds should start banning people for bringing this topic up again. lol
Shame on you. :)

Like I said "No confirmation". And this isn't a journalist's personal opinion, it is a genuine rumour and this is a rumour site.

Syd
Lol I think betty hit the nail on the head .
We will see next see next season if lvg plays rooney in the deep cm play maker role but I have a feeling you will be wrong again

From what I have just read, this journalist claims this is his info. It's what he's heard. In other words it's a genuine rumour. Not necessarily true, but a rumour nonetheless. Rumours we comment on whether we think they are true or not. It's worthy of a comment.

The Mata story was a journalist's personal opinion of what he thinks may happen. Not something he had heard will happen, just what he thinks may happen (just his opinion). That isn't a rumour. Therefore not worth commenting on as there's no substance to it.

One is an opinion, one is a rumour. It cannot be clearer.

Jred, I don't think Rooney will play that deep. I think he will play as an attacking midfielder.

Wrong again? What do you still think SAF didn't want Rooney to replace Scholes?

I listened to the Sky news pod originally which didn't specify where in midfield. It wasn't until after that I found the article and I have to say I cannot see Rooney playing as the number 6. I think he would be more advance than that, but certainly in midfield.

He's certainly not going to play ahead of Van Persie as the main striker and it's highly unlikely he will play wide left considering we have been trying to sign Konoplyanka and Sanchez and the fact he's not a left forward, not at this standard anyway. So it only leaves midfield.

I think he will play either the most advanced role or the legs role. I cannot see him playing as a number 6. He would be wasted there IMO.

Syd
Sticking to facts fergy never replaced scholes with rooney .
There is nothing in the article that has been run by one journo in one sunday paper .
Much the same as the mata rumour there is no source anything.
But you think it might happen so the story must be true lol
I do wonder how the journalist in question found out what lvg was planning even during the wc and why this world exclusive wasnt on the back page maybe even the front .

Syd
The article you are taking as gospel says nothing about attacking midielder?

Lot of reports in papers a few weeks ago that lvg will listen to any serious offers for mata?

Lvg must be telling everyone everything he plans .

Hes not good enough to play there and be effective. Yes he has a long range of passing but its too inconsistent. He gives the ball away far too much and he hasn't got the discipline to stay central. He doesn't have the traits to be a top class midfielder. If this story is true i'd imagine its to force him out

Syd
And if lvg decides to play 532?
After all your article says he is desperate to find a way of playing rooney rvp and mata in the same team.
Its a shame the journo itk didn't also tell us what our transfer plans where i'm dying to know.

"Sticking to facts fergy never replaced scholes with rooney ."

I never said he replaced Scholes with Rooney. I said SAF wanted to replace Scholes with Rooney. I find it hard to believe that you still don't think SAF tried moving Rooney to midfield against his wishes, even though Rooney himself has said as much. But what does Rooney know eh?

"The article you are taking as gospel says nothing about attacking midielder?"

I haven't taken anything as gospel. In fact I doubt it is true. Like I said the rumour maybe true, it maybe not, but it's a rumour nonetheless and worthy of a comment. I was commenting on the Sky news pod which didn't specify where in midfield.

"Lot of reports in papers a few weeks ago that lvg will listen to any serious offers for mata?"

That's a lie. There was one story from the express that was recycled by all the little media sites who repeated the headline. But if you read them articles it will tell you their source was the Express. And we know that the Express journalist was merely having an opinion on what he thinks may happen. He never once said his sources say MU will listen to offers. It says he doesn't believe Mata will fit therefore he thinks LvG may listen to offers for him. I couldn't care less what a journo thinks, I am only interested in what he's heard.

There you go Jred, that wasn't hard was it? A productive debate is exactly what I initiated to begin with and wanted from my OP. Finally you have joined in, instead of continuing your weird Rooney defence thing (even though I haven't said anything bad against him in my OP).

532 is certainly possible, but why would LvG be looking closely at Mandzukic? Muller? Sanchez? Robben? Why would we buy another forward if Rooney was one of the 2 in the 532 Personally I think Rooney will play in midfield, but not as deep as a 6. Holland play 3421. 3 CBs (Vlaar/De Vrij/Indi), 2 wingbacks (Janmeet/Blind), a deep two (De Jong/De Guzman), a more advanced two (Sneijder/Robben) with RvP up top.

Could we do something similar next season?

Syd
Fergy tried rooney in cm it never worked . Rooney isn't a cm most people can see this and he didn't want to play there .
That is a long way of fergy wanted rooney to replace scholes with rooney.
Rooney has not replaced scholes, fergy did not replace scholes with rooney .


I few weeks ago there was a dodge report in several papers saying lvg would listen to offers for mata. Your response was no one should discuss it .
A few weeks later there is a report just as bad about rooney playing cm and your response?
"Its a genuine rumour and this is a rumour site "

As I have said before its double standards for yourself when it comes to rooney.
You will be telling me he is going to sign for psg again next

He never once said his sources say MU will listen to offers. 
Sydney
No he said lvg will listen to serious offers.
In the rooney article he never named any sources.

There is no difference imo and both are probably rubbish.
But you believe one is a " genuine rumour"
And the one about mata shouldn' t be talked about .
You actually had a go at people posting about it .
Double standards?

Mumbles, I completely agree. I cannot see him in the number 6 role although SAF clearly did. I think he would be wasted there. He offers too much offensively to play there and like you said there are better players out there who could do the job.

I wish I could debate this further, but I have to be up at 5am tomorrow.

To be continued .

One is a rumour, one was an opinion, it doesn't surprise me that you can't tell the difference between the two.

23 Jun 2014 00:43:04
Syd as far as I know your the only one on here who thinks Rooney will play centre midfield as the rest of us recognise his limitations prevent him from doing the position on a regular basis. i'd be more inclined to believe that this is the start of the campaign to force him out.

MrE, who is going to pay Rooney what he is currently getting at MU? There are probably three clubs, maybe four that would do that. Chelsea, City, PSG & Monaco. I don't see Rooney wanting to play in front of 8,000 crowds at Monaco. I cannot see Rooney losing everything he has built at MU by moving to a rival which leaves just PSG. Personally I think he will be a MU player next season. So if he is a MU player next season, then where do you think he will play?

Syd
Apart from yourself not many think he will be playing cm next season.
Or deep lying playmaker like your article says.
He will play off rvp in some way or another and as 9 when rvp is injured .

Sydney

Not in midfield mate, he is not good enough and will never never be even remotely suited for that role at any top club.

Like all great strikers they are eventually doomed to the junkyard once they lose their ability to score.

Jred, I will say this for the last time, but hopefully your brain will engage it.

"I DO NOT BELIEVE ROONEY WILL PLAY AS A NUMBER 6!"

I think he will play a more advanced role and I agree that he will cover for Van Persie when Van Persie is injured or rested.

Shahram, so where will Rooney play if he is at the club next season?

Syd
I can't see lvg playing rooney as an attacking cm and mata as a 10 it would leave no one in midfield .
rooney imo will play of rvp.
just because some journo says lvg is going to play rooney in cm diesnt mean he is going to .

I think depending on midfield recruits, I think Rooney will play as part of a midfield three. I don't see him as a left or right forward or as a number 9 unless Van Persie is injured or rested. I don't see him as a number 6. I think he would be wasted there and we could get better players to do that job. I think Rooney will play a more advanced role, either the legs role or the attacking midfield role like Sneijder plays. We will see soon enough.

I would like to know what role people think he will play next season under LvG.

23 Jun 2014 11:02:28
Syd if you believe he's on 300k a week, which I believe hasn't been confirmed. Also Rooney had no issues in going to a rival when he was threatening to go to city the first time around. I think he would have no issues in going to Chelsea nor do I think the club would have much concern in selling him to a rival.

Personally I think he will play either upfront or in the hole. But I do think he could struggle to find a place depending on what system is in place. His highest backer has left the club but his powerful enemies remain. Who have not forgiven or forgotten. All I said I can see the start of a campaign to convince Rooney his future lies elsewhere.

"just because some journo says lvg is going to play rooney in cm diesnt mean he is going to."

I never said it does. But it's still a relevant discussion because we are all wondering where Rooney will play under LvG.

So you mean Rooney will play the Robben role? Just off RvP? If that's the case then why did/does MU have an interest in Robben if Rooney is to play there?

Syd
you need more than 1 one player in a position rooney can and will play more than one position . Robben which we won't sign even tho it has been reported in the papers we might, can also play more than one role .
Lvg will play more than 1 formation and more than 1 style of tactics.
lvg will also not play the same 11 every game .

strange thing is you play the rooney won't play off rvp because we are looking at robben / sanchez yet think he will play cm even tho we have been linked with every cm that has kicked a ball in the last 5 year.

Syd
just to point out robben also plays wide

23 Jun 2014 11:33:35
Surely if what we know about LVG is true Rooney will play where he is told or he will be off end of debate!

MrE, I didn't say he's on £300k a week. Nonetheless he is on a very large amount which only a handful of clubs can afford to pay. I am not sure even LvG would allow Rooney to move to a rival and I think it's unlikely he would move abroad. I think he will be a MU player next season and I do not envisage him sitting on the bench, so I think it's about where he will play under LvG next season. Do you seriously see him playing alongside Van Persie? Van Persie made it clear he didn't like that last season when he said players are making the runs he would make and getting in his way. I can only see Rooney playing behind Van Persie, the question is how deep will he play off of him? And will there be someone slightly more advanced than Rooney, perhaps Mata? I can only see two spaces for him. As an attacking midfielder like Sneijder for Holland, which means leaving Mata on the bench or behind that role with Mata playing the Sneijder role. It is possible that he could play the Robben role, but if that's the case why have we looked at Robben/Muller.

It's an interesting debate, which was what I was hoping for last night.

It's an interesting debate, which was what I was hoping for last night.

Sydney!
lol I don't believe that for a minute, betty was a lot closer to the mark.

a month a go not that many people seemed to know a lot about lvg now it seems everyone is an expert .
i actually think lvg will get the best out of rooney I think rooney is the type of player lvg likes.
lvg may move rooney to cm he did it with schwiney but he might also move valencia there.
imo rooney has the tools to play cm, who would he have to be better than carrick clevs fellaini jones . I think he could do better in cm than all them .
but for me rooney will still get u goals and assists I believe lvg will try to get the best out of rooney and he will do that by playing him in his best position .
i think rooney will play in an advanced position next year pos even second striker although for some games he will prob drop deeper

Jred, I am not saying he won't play off RvP. I have said on here many times that I think that's his best position and where I would play him. However there does seem a good chance he could drop deeper next season (not as a number 6). It will certainly be interesting to see what LvG does with the trio. I hope all can find a happy medium and that we can kick on next season. I still think on paper RvP, Mata and Rooney is an awesome trio and I am hoping all will have a good season together. Mata will only improve. Van Persie will be raring to go under LvG, I just hope LvG can find a place for Rooney which keeps him happy because when he's happy, he's usually at his best.

Sligo, that is of course very true, but the question still remains where will LvG try Rooney?

Ed001, if you are around today. I would like an opinion from a non-MU fan on what you think will happen with Rooney next season. Do you think he could be given a slightly deeper role by LvG? Thanks.

{Ed001's Note - I personally expect him to drop deeper, I think van Gaal would like a lot more pace from a player alongside RVP. Though he can also provide cover up top for van Persie as well. I wouldn't be surprised if Nani's contract means he plays the Robben role myself. I know that would not be popular, but if it works, well then it will become a popular decision! I really can't see him playing Rooney up there, he will have talked it over with RVP, he will know the difficulties the pair had working together. He also knows that there is a lack of pace in the final third, and that cost United badly last season. I really can't see what else he can do, other than sell one of them, and what clubs can afford Rooney under FFP?}

So where does that leave mata who really does lack pace.
Lvg has already praised kags as a top player and kags for me plays the same position as mata .
maybe the rumours that lvg will listen to offers for mata are true

Thanks Ed001, pretty much mirror my thoughts. With MU looking at Robben, Konoplyanka, Sanchez etc it does seem to me too that they are looking for some pace upfront to play around Van Persie. With MU struggling to get the midfielders we want it does make sense that Rooney could be moved to midfield. LvG will certainly not sell RvP and replace him with Rooney simply because Rooney is half the striker RvP is. So there are certainly some decisions to make. Thanks.

Jred, read my OP again, I was not going fishing for a Jred Rooney defensive, I was after a decent debate. It's a relevant one too and with the site moving very slowly at the time I thought it would be a good one to have. You really need to calm your very strange Rooney defence issues. It's borderline creepy.

"So where does that leave mata who really does lack pace.
Lvg has already praised kags as a top player and kags for me plays the same position as mata .
maybe the rumours that lvg will listen to offers for mata are true"

Again, there were no rumours. It was one journalist's opinion that MU may sell Mata. That doesn't mean MU would not listen to offers for Mata. Of course they could. Unlikely, but possible.

Syd
Where have I defended rooney in any of this?
I agree with betty.
it was just a fish if the article with no source or comment had been about any other player it would of been dismissed by you .
I have enjoyed the debate although it has mostly been what you have been saying for 2 year now

I think LvG will surprise a fair few and play Rooney as the most advanced midfielder of a midfield 3.

Deeps.

Deeps, I completely agree.

Deeps
Thats what I said when we first got lvg.
Lvg may go for 5-3-2 like holland are playing now but to be honest I see him sticking with his tried and tested 4-3-3 with rooney playing the 10 or sneijder role.
But where does that leave mata, maybe the rumour that lvg will listen to offers could be true .
After all we have rooney mata and kags

Jred, as soon as someone mentions Rooney you are on them like a shot. It's getting a bit creepy now. I was genuinely trying to wake up a sleepy site. I am more than happy to discuss Mata, Van Persie or any other MU player, but the reason I chose Rooney was due to the Sky pod that I listened to. It's similar to what we have been discussing for a while now so I thought it was relevant to discuss it. I did say it was not confirmed. Chill out a bit, go and open a beer :)

Syd
Where have I defended rooney?
The article was rubbish and normally I would let it go its a rumour and banter site and most of the stories imo carry little truth.
But the fact you slated anyone who dared to mention the mata story only a couple of weeks ago says it all.

Im surprised you agree with deeps where woukd that leave mata

Jred, if we went for the 532, then you must mean Rooney being one of the 2. I think he will be an advanced midfielder in the 3.

Syd
Lvg nearly always plays 4-3-3 in fact he has said the 5-3-2 was to counter the spanish.
I would still expect lvg to primarily use 4-3-3 not sure how mata kags and rooney fit in

Syd
I think rooney could play off rvp in s 5_3_2 but he could also pkay the sneijder role .
Infact he could play the sneijder role in either 4-3-3 or5-3-2 but where does that leave mata

Jred, I agree and it's going to be very interesting to see what he does. Preseason will be interesting and with Rooney and Mata and possibly Shinji all out at the group stage, we should see earlier than planned what he will do.

Like I said I didn't see the article until after I posted my OP. I was going by a Sky transfer podcast.

Why are you surprised I agree with Deeps. My opinions are not based on what I want to happen, they are based on what I think will happen.

I have said all along that I think Rooney will be part of the midfield three. Whether it be the legs or the more advanced role.

That's also where I think Rooney's best position is. Like I have always said.

Syd
Im surprised you agree with deeps as he has rooney playing the 10 and where would that leave mata.

i c/p agree with deeps I said the same when we got lvg

Jred, that's the difference between you and I. My opinions are not based on what I want to see happen. My opinions are based on what I believe or think could happen. The problem you have is you can never see past your uncontrollable love for Rooney :)

On to the DT. Alba starts, Casillas dropped. Sanchez starts, Vidal rested. Mixed bag for you. None of my players are playing at 5pm. Van Persie suspended is a big miss for the people who have Van Persie. I'm up to 7th which isn't bad, but I'm disappointed in Aguero.

Syd
Not at all .
I said when lvg joined I couldn't see mata and rooney in the same team therefore one will leave imo not this summer but next.
My issue with rooney has always been the rubbish that people like yourself have spouted .
I agree with bond its the double standards that have always got me

Double standards by some on here yes, but not by me. There are people on here and MU fans in general that hate Rooney with a passion. I am not one of them. I have said for years now that we have probably seen the best of Rooney. You didn't like me saying that and always had some sort of hissy fit when I said it. But I think even you will now admit that we have probably seen the best of Rooney. That isn't a criticism, that doesn't make him an average player, I have always said he is still a top player, but we have probably seen the best of him. Rooney has p1ssed me off one season in eleven seasons. People were well within their rights to criticise him the season before last. I'm hoping that next season both Van Persie and Rooney will be fired up and happy. If both are playing well and can remain fit, then that's half of the battle won next season.

22 Jun 2014 14:50:41
The hard worker argument

valencia signing an extension has had mixed responses.Some say he lacks quality and others say he makes up for it with his hard work and loyalty. Now, this is an interesting debate. Do we at manchester united favour hard work over sheer quality and talent nowadays? When did the first criteria of a winger change from 'puts the fear of god in the opposite fullback' to 'protects his own fullback by tracking back'? don't get me wrong. Hard working players are obviously very important. But that is after they have the quality. If you look at any big club, there are many players who do the dirty work, wingers who help out their fullback and and strikers who put pressure on the center backs.But for an attacking player, that's never the priority. Would you rather have a ronaldo or a hazard who don't defend all that much or a welbeck or valencia who do?I am not saying that wingers shouldn't defend, i'm saying that should not be criteria for their selection.
In the recent years, due to the lack of a decent midfield, our defence has been under a lot of pressure.So in a way evra and rafael needed the protection. But this year with the supposed midfielders coming in, surely things should change now.

Spot on, we have had to play in a way that protects our slow static midfield for couple of years now. I really believe with 2 mobile midfielders and a new defender, the whole style will change.

I agree. Wingers main focus should be on attacking with pace and power rather than worrying about defending. I think the reason managers feel defensive wingers are necessary is due to the change in football tactics and the development of the game. Personally I prefer defensive midfielders to cover the full backs rather than the wingers covering them as this is often more efficient.

Much like you I prefer out and out wingers who thrust fear into the oppponent rather than defensive wingers. If our central midfield was sorted and rebuilt then I believe that the ground could be covered better and allow for the wingers to stay higher up field.

Great post mate. Could not have said it better.