Manchester United Banter Archive May 23 2013

 

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23 May 2013 23:19:24
Just to cheer Klooty up -

United have refinanced a lot of debt - therefore reducing the interest payment by approx 10mil pa (stirling). From 31 mil to 21 mil.

Thats an extra 10 mil to play with a year - compared to Liverpool who loose around 40 mill a year.

Maybe just maybe - we are not in such a bad position afterall.

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We shouldn't be happy until we are paying £0 in interest on £0 of debt.

It is a step in the right direction though.

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According to andersred that shouldn't be very long at all

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24 May 2013 07:03:39
Yes but maybe you're now paying it over 30 yrs and not the original 15 yrs. That's invariably how those things happen. Wouldn't trust those thieving yanks. ;-)

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No name, apart from we were never paying the previous debt over 15 years. The other half of the bond debt matures in 2017. By then a lot of the £360m debt will be gone and interest will be lower than £10m a season. Until it dwindles down to nothing. The only thing that is changing is the interest rates, not the length of the debt.

To put all of this into perspective, in 2008 we were paying £68.8m a season on debt interest, that's 73% of the revenue going on interest. NOW just 12% of the revenue will go towards interest. We should never have been in this position in the first place, but I am glad we are clearing it one way or another.

Sydney!

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Sorry, that's 73% of operating profits, not the revenue.

Sydney!

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23 May 2013 22:25:18
Rooney the subject of so many posts.

Several years ago when playing well he used the threat of leaving to get the pay rise he wanted and that he felt he deserved. He wasn't the first to do that Keane, Rio, and in 96 even SAF was in a similar position. I feel that many fans are still angry, as they like me would play for merely enough to pay the mortgage or less. It is almost as if he has broken the code and image that all united players must be desperate to play for the club. I don't have a big problem with what he did several years ago as I know the club can be difficult to deal with over money but I am more concerned about what he has done since. It is almost as if now he doesn't care about his fitness as much as he did and symptoms right now smack of someone fed up and lacking motivation, almost depressed.
A while ago Rooney picked up an injury, one which seemed to restrict and slow him, then he turned up pretty obviously not in peak condition. SAF tried him in different positions, ones that didn't call on so much pace off the mark, the lean quick Rooney was nowhere to be seen. At the same time we failed to strengthen the midfield and where before Rooney could operate with powerful players behind, that was not there anymore.
This is where I differ a little from many. SAF, by pushing Rooney into different positions to cover his lack of sharpness and because we just couldn't hold the ball long enough in a poor midfield bereft of quality, may have completely knocked his confidence. Rooney may have felt SAF no longer trusted him. Rooney has played since young as a natural spirit doing things by instinct yet for the first time it wasn't working and the more he was moved around the more his confidence waned and I feel his drive and determination to fitness started to go, his touch worsened and more and more errors entered his game. My guess is that he discussed how he felt with SAF a few weeks ago and questioned whether he was wanted as a player particularly as a striker and whether he should stay. Whether it was a full unequivocal transfer request is to be seen.
What is certain is that we have not seen the real Rooney for some time but has SAF by almost hiding Rooney actually made him worse? I get the impression that SAFs parting present was to bring everything to a head and it certainly needed doing.
There is a big decision, contract or no contract, could he ever discover the Rooney of old? My feeling is that he has lost that edge and will not hit that high level again but it is a big call and we better be very sure before selling him. I wouldn't sell him to Chelsea as someone like Mourinho could give him a fresh impetus so if he goes we should sell him abroad. One thing is clear though and that is the driver for this should not be reducing costs by jettisoning Rooney's wages hence pleasing financiers.

Red Man

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I don't understand why everyone is against Rooney on his first transfer request for getting more money. Maybe the way he did it was not right but everyone does that in one way or another.
I guess most people here wishes Bale to play for us and I think everyone agrees that he is open to a move now either to us, Real or any other club. But if Tottenham gives him a contract worth 200k a week and if he stays. How different will it be from Rooney's case. I guess only the approach or the way it is dealt is different.

Now, if he desires to continue with us then we should definitely keep him. That's my opinion.

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Good post red man. your comments made me think of assu ekkoto at spurs who readily admits he is just a professional doing a job. from what I understand the spurs fans still love him, because he is actually professional in working hard and doing a good job for the money he is paid. I don't need rooney to want to die for the club, just to live up to his professional responsibilities and earn his money. if I worked in hr and my company told me they needed me in finance for a bit and then in operations, I wouldn't spit my dummy out. I'd recognise that my company was paying me a wage for my labour and I'd get on with what they asked me to do. I'd perhaps even welcome the opportunity to learn something and develop myself professionally. so what's Rooney's problem with doing this, if you follow my analogy?

i started off firmly believing we should keep Rooney. now I'm thinking we should sell him to PSG and use the £30 mill or so to buy someone else. also I was persuaded by one of the eds point shown keeping Rooney for another season was potentially a £30 - £40 mill risk given his wages and drop in value with only one year left on his contract.

this whole Rooney debate is fantastic. it seems to me it, s spilt utd fans about 50/50 and the brilliant thing is that nobody is right or wrong. everybody just has an opinion.

dont ya just love football!

Andrew b

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I couldn't give a monkey's about Rooney's haggling tricks much like you Red Man, my thoughts are football based and what is best for the club at this present time. I agree with you that Rooney has lost his edge. That couldn't be more obvious to most of us. His fitness issues and unhealthy lifestyle is not helping him either and if SAF couldn't control him, then Moyes wouldn't have a hope in hell. So IMO he needs to go for the good of the club and himself. I also agree with you that a move outside the EPL is preferred. Another thing is I want it sorted soon, the sooner his future is sorted the sooner we can go shopping for new players.

Sydney!

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Fan of carrick
how can you compare the two cases, bale would love to stay and has never even hinted at leaving let alone use the situation as a bargaining tool. Rooney, however used his good form and stature to force united into paying him a bucketful of cash or he was leaving for the highest bidder which makes him a bit of a mercenary where-as bale has acted totally professionally and will probably stay for another year when if spurs fail again he will understandably leave for cl football. how do they compare spurs fans would thank bale for all he did because he is loyal man u fans will happily say goodbye to an average player (unfit) who has and possibily is trying to hold the club to ransom

dave

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23 May 2013 22:27:55
lewandowski is bayern bound, rodriguez is off to monaco, city and real are fighting it out for isco and arsenal are now in pole position for strootman (personter & tabloids), they were among the top 5 in my summer wish list, don't know about you lot but i'm starting to wonder who we are going to bring in, we now apper to be after some centre back from italy, I really hope that the thiago story will prove to have substance but I really can't see us getting a free run at him, its early doors but it is a shame we seem to be losing out on some of OUR top targets.
mick the red fireman.

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Wow I didn't know you were privvy to who is on our transfer wanted list.

Lets be honest none of us know for sure who were after or even who would be best for us. Were basing our assumptions on how we expect/want the team to play next year and are picking fancy names out of the air to play those positions.

When we scout players its over a period of years, and we also look into their personality which is just as important in signing a player as their skills are. None of us know what the personalities of these players are like or whether they would fit into the dressing room.

If we make a move for them and get pipped then you can feel let down. If we never make a move then we haven't missed out, we were just never that interested for some reason.

Besides have any of these players actually signed deals? No, so we could still pip in with a bid if we want to.

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23 May 2013 23:08:47
YOU or WE don't run the club. And its not like there will be a drought of talented players! Get a grip!

Whistler.

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Don't intend to say this in a smart way, so hopefully it doesn't come across that way. But how do we know if they were our main targets? We could only have had a passing interest for all we know.

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Shappy you obviously can't read, I state clearly my shopping list, and that its in tabloids, regards lewy saf stated his interest, please read before posting.
mick the red fireman.

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And we don't always scout for years and all the other babble, ronnie and bebe for two, rooney another, saw an interview with saf where he said he bought rio after a solid world cup and a chat with beckham,.
mick the red fireman.

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Guys he quite clearly said that they were on HIS top 5 list. In a sense I am inclined to agree. We all had a list of players who we would be happy to sign this summer (most being the same players from a selection of around 8-10) and one by one they are being linked heavily with moves elsewhere. I just hope that the club has been working hard to get our summer deals done and we shouldn't under estimate the Fergie factor. Any player that may have been leaning towards United may now be back on the fence. As someone said on here the other day, not every footballer is a die hard United fan like us normal folk.

TK-Red

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24 May 2013 11:04:13
Sorry mick mate, I wasn't in the best of moods last night and i'm getting sick of people complaining about the lack of signings and who we are linked too. First off the window isn't even open yet, and secondly the club know more about the players they want to sign then we do. So maybe we should trust their judgement, they are right more often then not.

I was a bit more snappy than shappy with my reply, so sorry about that.

I agree that we do sometimes make moves for players with little or no scouting but its not often and when we do its either because the player is an obvious potential world talent ala Rooney Rio and Ronaldo, or because someone else is moving for them.

We do prefer to do very thorough scouting first.

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Fair enough snappy er shappy, no probs, but I do hope OUR problem areas are addressed, we are once again heavily linked with a centre back and not midfielders, guess we will see.
mick the red fireman.

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There are still those that believe what the tabloids say? who knew!

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23 May 2013 22:06:55
With the sad passing of Brian Greenhoff, I looked back to my 1st match at Old Trafford. 1979, FA Cup Old Trafford, snow falling, 1-0, winning goal scored by his brother Jimmy. What a team. Bailey, Nichol, Houston, McQueen, Buchan, Greenhoff, McIlroy, Coppell, Macari. Thomas, Pearson. Sitting on the bar at the front of the Stretford End. This was the stuff dreams were made of. Brian, you may not have been part of a successful side but we were there together. 9 years, over 200 appearances. RIP Brian.

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Nice one AJH I remember him well

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23 May 2013 21:47:44
Does anybody know what is the story with Kevin Strootman. He has been linked for a long time but what are the chances if it happening now that Fergie has left and Moyes is in? Thanks {Ed004's Note - Still very likely}

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He's not in Alcantaras class and would slow powells progress down I'm bemused with his name continuing to be mentioned who else is chasing him?
Dylan

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AC Milan for one. They see him as a long term replacement for Seedorf. So they rate him pretty highly.

You clearly don't know much about Strootman either, he plays deeper than what Powell will be able too. So in no way will block Powell.

Personally I think Powell should be understudy to Kagawa in the no. 10 role. He was a striker for Crewe, but personally I think he is best in the space between the midfield and the forward line. If Strootman signs don't expect him to play there.

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Bemused we are interested in the holland captain?

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AC Milan exactly my point!
If we want to push on and compete with the Elite in Europe then we have to find a Van Persie equivalent for our midfield not buy someone whose no better than Darren Gibson (no offence).
Dylan

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24 May 2013 00:23:41
Well Dylan that shows how much you know about football. You don't rate the AC Milan as a top team, only Real Madrid have won the european cup more times than them. They rate Strootman as having the potential ability to replace Seedorf, one of the best midfielders of his generation. Your either very young or blinkered to football outside of england.

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Strootman would play with, then replace carrick, so will not be blocking anyones progress.
i agree powell should be kagawa's understudy as it were (you could also play welbeck there although he is not as creative)
you would then have clev rotating with thiago alcantara till he adapts and carrick retires/ strootman takes over
however this would only work if we brought in a winger (my guess would be di maria)

line up would be
RVP/ Hernandez

Di Maria/young Kagawa/powell Valencia/Zaha

Clev/Thiago Strootman/Carrick

if we don't sign strootman I would expect/want to see jones playing there, I have said it before but I really think rooney leaving could be the making of jones (as a midfielder)
i think this formation would give us a very fluid attack with great flexibility and movement (esp with di maria and kagawa able to swap/ come infield with full backs providing extra width)

ed, I can see us keeping valencia for at least 1more season, but what are your views on young leaving along with nani?

dags

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Dags

I like the team and would love to see young gone and Valencia kept for another year but would also love to see Anderson be put on a huge fitness programe and played back where he belongs.

Imagine if we lined up with Rvp up top then Di Maria or Sanchez kagawa Valencia behind with januzaj ando Powell and zaha offering cover across the line

19JackC94

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Sorry Shappy I have to disagree I would not disrespect AC Milan or L, pool for that matter but in the last 10 years this game as changed dramatically and unless a crazy oligarch turns up at either of these clubs in the very near future then they won't compete with the Current elite.
Our signings this summer are key if we
Buy a player who in my opinion won't take us to another level then I'd rather blood the youngsters otherwise we will end up like both above mentioned great clubs who've sold their great players and replaced them with average.
Finally I've watched loads of football in my 50 years and still get frustrated at this time of year like everyone else but I see who City, chealsea, Bayern&PsG are linked with and see where the Future threat will come from I'd be very surprised off they are chasing Strootmans signature.
Dylan

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I refuse to believe that you're 50 years old and think Ac milan are not a big club. Have you looked through their squad or aware of what has happened in the past 10 years? They got relegeated due to the fixing of matches and this knocked them back many years in terms of progress, they set up to get their youth system to the top European standards and they have done this, I can see them being a very competitive club in the champs league in the next 5 years if you've seen the young talent they have in the squad.

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24 May 2013 08:15:47
Thats quite a high opinion you have of yourself there mate. If we don't sign players who in YOUR opinion aren't good enough then we will fall behind? Wow you should be up for the chief scouts job if your opinion is that good.

Do you think you could be wrong? Do you think it could be a possibility that we sign someone you don't rate and they turn out better than you thought? Did you think when we spent 7m on a unheard of eastern european defender that we should have signed a top player like Nesta or did you have the ability to know that this young Vidic would turn out the player he did? What about when we signed a little known Mexican? Did you know he's score 20 goals in his first season?

I don't think you've watched Strootman in a single match and your writing him off because the oil rich teams don't seem to be circling above him. Maybe within the inner football circle its known that he's already agreed to come to us? Or maybe these clubs have no proper scouting network of their own and they just sign who the papers say are great players atm, or maybe their rich owner are playing abit of fantasy football and sign who they like the look of? I've not yet seen them sign a little heard of player who they've turned into a star.

We shop at a different shop to those people, they just buy ready made players from the top shelf and they pay way over the odds for them as they have money to burn. We on the other hand don't have money to burn. As such we need to shop clever, buy players with potential and help them becone top shelf players. And to be honest its worked pretty well for us. So don't be expecting us to change our buying habits or you will be sorely dissapointed.

And to write of AC Milan is shocking, they have signed some very good young player recently, and if they can get the best out of Balotelli and El Shaarway then they have a leathal front pairing. They are typical italian so defend well, they just need to sort out their midfield then they will be on their way again. In your 50 years surely you've seen the cycle of football, how teams have to rebuild every 4/5 years as their players have gotten old and fresh young blood needs to be brought and bedded in. Well Milan are rebuilding now, see where they are in a couple of years time.

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Snappy I'm the biggest supporter of youth development I recognise AC Milan and other past European giants who have had great success however I believe the rules of the game have changed if the teams I mention get their acts together with some sort of stability in their management then it's going to be more difficult bringing kids through unless their super talented just look at Arsenal they are struggling to hold on to the shirt tails of the clubs I mention and I would much rather see them and others like them succeed but it's difficult to challenge mid to long term if your continually being blown out the water with the oligarchs.
Dortmund are the exception and I really do hope they stuff Bayern because in the coming seasons the clubs I've mentioned will dominate Champs league barring stupid owners interfering.
Dylan

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24 May 2013 13:00:43
I'm sure these teams will present a new challenge to the established top teams but i'm taking a more wait and see approach. There have been many teams that have challenged the big clubs during the history of football but very few of them make that jumo into the elite group. City got knocked out in the group stages two years in a row, Malaga didn't do much, PSG played well at times yet still didn't challenge. Chelsea won the champions league last year but its taken them nearly 10 years of Abramovics money to get there, and even they went out in the group stages last season. Yes they won the europa league but that isn't an aim a top club has at the start of the season.

It takes more than money to become a genuine top club, you need to prove yourself and win things consistantly.

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City, PSG and Malaga unfortunately prove my point they've come along way quickly and we all know that to win the Champs league you need some luck along the way (Dortmund Porto Barca the year they best chealsea in the semi)have all has officials decisions go in their favour but if you want to go down the wait and see route then I'm afraid you'll be left behind.
We can only just compete because of our history, commercial standing and SirAlex putting us well and truly on the map with our success.
That's why the signing of Van Persie was important and this summer Christianos will be key they make the difference at this level strootman, Fellini etc don't!
Dylan
Dylan

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23 May 2013 21:43:45
a very sad day yesterday what happened in woolwich, the young lad has now been named and was a passionate red from manchester, RIP fellow red
johndenton

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23 May 2013 21:12:36
So a lot has been said about Wayne Rooney, and this is just my honest opinion of the player, with a view to being as balanced and unbiased as possible.

Rooney has been a great player and a great team player for the club for a long time, having played here for 9 years, and having played in about 9 positions for the sake of the team. Furthermore, he has given the club a lot of success, including 5 Premier League titles and a Champions League title, along with him gaining much personal success, as he has won Player of the Year, Goal of the Season, Team of the Year and the FIFA Team of the Year all on several occasions. Rooney, we must not forget, has been integral to the success of this football club the last several years, and is currently the club's second top scorer ever, and has the chance to become the top scorer, possibly even before he turns 30. Furthermore Rooney has given the fans many very special memories that we shall cherish and shall tell our children time and time again, including most famously his overhead volley against Man City.

However, Rooney has had his downs with the club. He asked to leave the club previously, and he questioned the ambition of the club. This was forgivable from my perspective, since we as fans also questioned the ambition of the club. People complain that he does not earn his wage. However, Rooney scores and creates plenty of goals and carries the team at times. Furthermore people claim he does not stay fit. Well Rooney is almost always very fit, and his distance covered stats prove this, after all people can be slim and unfit, or very fat but fit. However this is a fair point and Rooney does need to keep fitter. Also his form fluctuating is an issue and this is another fair point, though less of an issue to the team now we have RvP.

In my view, he needs to stay fitter, get slimmer, and perform more consistently, as although he has played well in many games, he has had several poor games. Also he needs to work on his touch since that can be perfect one minute and awful the next. If he finds the level he found last year he can be unstoppable alongside Van Persie. I think he just needs to play more games, he needs to play as a striker, and he needs to enjoy his football, because at heart, that is what Wayne Rooney loves, football. Overall, I would like Wayne to stay if he merely wants to more games and wants to play as a striker, but I would want him to go if he does truly want to leave.

Sorry for the long post, though there are plenty of others on here, but this is just a summary of Rooney and my opinion.

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Well said!

redseven

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9 positions? Talk me mtheoughmthe, then, it's been 4 at most - CF, wing, CM, Nmbr 10. Not sure where you get the other 5 from as I don't remember him playing goalie, full back or centre half. Talk me through when he last arrived the team as my memory doesn't stretch that far. Was that when he was paying a hooker whilst his wife was pregnant? Or was it when he turned up for pre-season massively overweight? Or was it when he asked for a transfer and questioned the club's ambition? He's an embarrassment who believes his own hype. He had the talent to be one of the best in the world but he didn't deliver. 9 years, 9 years to stake his claim and it hasn't happened. There have been odd glimpses but that's it. We thought it was about to happen and there has been a good season or 2 but for a world class player it has not been anough. Overall, I would like him to leave and massage his over inflated ego somewhere else.

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I would rather he. got fit and we saw the real Rooney than we sold him.
I would. take a chance on him.
Cantana walked out on the club twice and fergy packed his bags traveled to France and talked him in to coming back.
Players make mistakes I think Rooney deserves a chance

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I think that is a very fair and balanced post. I'm of the camp that it maybe time to move Rooney on, not just for us but for himself. The best word to discribe Rooney last season imo is stale.

He seems to be suffering a lack of motivation. This imo has lead to him puttting in a lack of effort and why his weight and form was up and down like a yoyo last season.

A 27yo professional footballer shouldn't be having weight issues. His weight badly effects his form and as such he found himself in and out of the team.

As Sir Alex said a fully fit and on form Rooney is the first name on the team sheet.

Alot about his performances and his body language last season simply said "can't be bothered".

The big issue in my mind is he has been played deeper, now although he can play deeper he shouldn't do. This imo is due to a lack of quality in midfield. Rooney is a striker and he should always play as a striker. He won't be able to drop back deeper later in his career, and personally I can see him retiring early maybe 32ish. If he can't be bothered now what's he going to be like if 4/5 years time.

He needs to find his mojo again. If Sir Alex had stayed I would have said he 100% needed to leave. But with Moyes there is a chance he could find some form again. And i'm sure if a fully fit and on form Rooney was playing for us week in week out then most on here would be all for keeping him.

His first transfer request was about money, it may have been dressed up to look like is was about ambition. But the only ambition it was about was Wayne's ambition to have a healthier bank balance. But I forgave him that as at the time the old wage structure was choking the club and would have certainly ruled out the signing of RvP. So although it was done for selfish reasons it had its benefits.

His second transfer request was due to being unhappy at the club. Now he has been disrespectful to the club twice in this matter now. And personally I felt his coming into pre season well over a stone over weight was also disrespectful to all the staff at the club. And this makes me feel that his time at the club should be over, but there is still a good player in there. He just needs coaching out.

Moyes is a fitness fanatic and the team fitness will improve (although imo this could cause fatigue and would explain Evertons traditional poor end of season form). As a result Rooney will become a fitter player under Moyes. Now if he can just help Wayne get his mojo back then we could still have a very good player who'll win us games.

This would still mean his contract needs sorting out and to be honest it needs to come down in value and probably have fitness and performance clauses in it. But that's an issue for Woodward now.

If Moyes can get some of the old Rooney back (minus his explosive pace, which I don't think we'll see return) then we will have a game winner back on our hands.

Ultimately it comes down to does Wayne want it enough to fight for it. I sadly don't think he does, and I think we have seen the last of him in a United shirt. If this is the case then I will thank him and wish him well for the future.

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AJH -

There's been a few times when he closed out games in defense - but yeah. Not sure where the op got 9 from.

As for him staking a claim - he's averaged over 20 goals a season for us. 197 goals in 400 games is pretty damn good. Considering that 43 of those games were as a sub as well as the 96 assists he's chipped in - to say he's failed to deliver seems a little harsh.

Stats aren't everything but for a striker - when all is said and done - goals and assists are the measure of how good they are. 197 goals and 96 assists in 357 starts is a damn fine return (especially considering that he's not always been played in his best position).

redseven

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I have been trying not to post because I am in Waynes corner and do not want to keep the topic going on. Really we have noticed a decline since the game against Munich when he was played injured to help the team. I may not be a fitness expert but isn't it harder to keep weight off and keep in top shape after a bunch of niggling injuries. People compare him to Ronaldo but they aren't the same Ronaldo is a freak of nature. Rooney has fitness problems yes and for all we know the habits he has now he had when he was younger. Everyone knows as you get older your metabolism slows and perhaps before he could get away with the life he lived. Now it's caught up to him and he is struggling to deal with it which could spill over to his onfield performances. I will make the comparison to Tiger Woods everyone thought he was finished with a small group who kept faith and he is almost back in top form. Point is you never lose talent they could have to cut Rooney out of his house but that doesn't mean he couldn't still strike a ball. Really if you think he is finished then you should be more than happy to wish him well he gave his best years to United a team that he doesn't give a sh!t about. It's really sad when you all jump on whatever is said in the papers and crucify a player that was integral to most of our success for the past decade. For all of you saying he disrespected the club who said he asked for a transfer? Sir Alex because he always tells the truth to be honest I can't wait for his autobiography I'm sure it's going to be a great read. How is it Rooney's fault that Fegie said he asked for a transfer that isn't disrepectful? Some of you need to grow up if he publicly said he wanted out and wiped his a$$ with the shirt I would agree with you but Fergie leaked it and now it's the gospel. I think he is not done he is an amazing talent and if he could get motivated and fit he still has something to offer. It's all about what you believe and I'm sorry but just because you believe it doesn't make it true.

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Gilly, you must have splinters in your bum, from sitting on that fence so much, mate :)

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AJH, my comment about 9 positions was a bit of a joke, though he has played on both LW and RW, plus CM, CAM, and striker, and has had play almost at LB occasoal, plus I seem to remember his going in goal in the FA Cup once, and as always good post Shappy. Again AJH, Rooney from 2004-2012 was a top class player, scoring and creating goals for fun, and he scored a fair few this season, he has certainly proven himself as a top class player, and has been the major influence or driving force behind our success.

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Pretty sure (100%) that Rooney has never played on goal. The only two outfield players to go in goal for the last 20 years are John oshea and rio Ferdinand.

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AJH

He has ended up being the highest goal scorer in the Ferguson era. So much for not being able to deliver. Your tone smacks of someone who is just sounding downright bitter. When are we going to stop behaving like self righteous saints? You had to pull the rabbit our of the hat by talking about "playing hooker" when his wife was pregnant? Good I presume you burnt all your Giggsy posters when he ended lining up his sister in law? Stop being selective about what you consider as sacrilege and sacred.

Deeps.

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23 May 2013 21:04:14
The last attribute a player loses his is first touch.
Rooney's has gone! I would replace him with pastori (psg)

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I thought players generally lose pace, power, balance and other physical attributes when they grow old but not their touch.

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Fan of carrick
you are correct a player does usually lose pace, power etc what the first poster said was the LAST attribute to go is his touch which is probably about right as you have corroberated.

dave

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23 May 2013 19:22:38
Hi guys, first time poster here. If there's any eds knocking about does anyone have any clue of how much our budget will be in the summer? Seen a few people saying £50 million but with the shortlist we seem to have it doesn't seem like much. Thanks guys. Brad. {Ed007's Note - Clubs aren't too keen on telling people how much they have to spend, it also lets the selling club know. Look at Man City or Chelsea to see how buying clubs can be fleeced because teams know they have a seemingly bottomless pit of money.}

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23 May 2013 19:58:27
Banter please ed.

So redseven let me clear up my stance on Rooney.
I see once again u seemed to have missed my point AGAIN!
You claim the way the club are forcing him out is wrong? Well answer me this, back in 2010 when Rooney handed in his FIRST transfer request for more money (and that's what it was), and then when he was outed by the boss released a statement about lack of ambition, it was for the good of the club and he was treating us with respect was he? NO he wasn't!
Him and his agent Stretford saw a chance to make a lot of money off the club and done so.
Now as I have stated previously I sort of got it at the time after all he had a great season and carried our team to a decent title challenge, he had just came off the back of a great season and the best form of his career and still ended up finishing with nothing, now at the time the lack of ambition excuse washed because at the time we all had worries in terms of where our club was going after the sale of Ronaldo 1 year previously and seemingly no replacement brought in.
So he got his bumper pay rise and to an extent the fans forgot about the fiasco and 'moved' on.
Fast forward 2-1/2 years and now we have a out of shape, seemingly disruptive, out of form Rooney on 250k a week with 2 years left on his contract.
Now a Rooney of 3 years ago with the hunger and fitness would have every right to complain if he was being shoved out of the club and tbh I would be questioning the club on this, but the Rooney now is expendable.
After all he was the one that handed in the transfer request AGAIN and then somehow it was leaked to the press again!
From what I can see the club and our manager (who for some reason has come in for sum stick by some people on here today) has done everything to dampen the situation by declaring he needs to go away & sort his head out and that ''we have rejected his request''. Now this might be due to us not being to bothered about him going now and in my eyes that is the correct stance to take, but ask yourself why does the club feel like this?
To claim Rooney is being treated badly in this poor form, it is all of his own doing. The boy doesn't love the club, that's fair enough many players just see playing for a club as a job. But if your on top dollar for being a a supposed world-class star u better behave like one and Rooney has not been!
But if you knew anything about Rooney and Stetford you would smell a rat straight away! Its pretty much the same tatic pulled as in 2010.
Rooney gets to contract negotiations time, hands in a transfer request, leaks it to the press and then claims he has done it with decent intentions and the boss is treating him wrong.
The fact is this whole situation could of been handled differently by both parties involved. But it is what it is, because for Rooney and Stretford its a win win. If Rooney announces he wants to leave, every1 knows he on the market and forces the clubs hand into selling at a more attainable price, if we want to keep him u can bet it won't be for less money. win win.

But for you to come on here claiming reading this site has made u ashamed to be a united fan because of this is shocking and WRONG! Then to go on about keeping a note of peoples names to remind them of it is just (to quote the non insulting redseven) 'DOUCHIE'
Know one is arguing that if we could get a fully fit and commited Wayne Rooney back to his best it would be much more in our better interests to keep him but where is the evidence that we are going to get that?
If the best manager in the history of the game can't get him to knuckle down and work what hope do we have with Moyes getting a different reaction?
Unfourtunatly I do still think there is a world-class player in there and ED007 is right when he says it could come back to haunt us, because a move would prob revitalize him and get back that form. But Wayne going to get that hunger back here it seems.
I mean come on at the biggest game in recent times against REAL MADRID and the boss chooses a out of form Nani over him? There's no way you can tell me the boss done that to the detriment of the club? NO! He felt it was for the best and untill the 54th min it was proving to be a correct move.

All in all a split is best for both parties involved IMO and if we can now make a good amount of cash out of the deal we should, I wouldn't lose to much sleep over this fiasco because I bet u Wayne won't and I won't neither after all I support the club not a particular player and I can't understand why seemingly dont.

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Well said Chris. Clearly you and I are not 'real' fans.

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Well said Chris but one thing I would argue against is this notion of him suddenly coming back to his old best.

He has declined as a player and the occasional 40 yard pass when compared to how many poor passes and poor first touches does not make up for it. He has zero pace now and defenders can play him up tight without being worried that he can turn and run away from them. He also does not have the engine he used to have and looks knackered after 60 mints. Too me these are clear signs of a player who's legs have gone.

I will bet the next team that gets him will be hugely disappointed I they believe they will get the Rooney of 3 to 4 years ago.

Let chelsea have him because he will find it hard to get into that starting lineup especially if they get Falcao or Cavani.

If for some reason he stays I recon we will be lucky to get 15 milllion pounds for him next year.

BTW I am real fan and love the club to bits but can't be bothered with any players thinking they are bigger than the club. We have had better players come and go.

Shahram

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Shahram, ajh and chris and the rest. I just think its been said enough about rooney and its kind of annoyin some fans think that we're against rooney. but anyone whos a real fan would understand and love united then theyd know its best for us to part ways with rooney. like you mentioned better players have gone then whos rooney.

ive said few things about rooney in the past can't be asked anymore just wish him the best and if he does go, hope it happens as soon as possible so we can move on with our targets. I just don't want us to waste time trying to sell him to make money to buy our targets which I think is a risky ploy as we may lose our primary targets.

singh

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I fully understood your points - although some of them appear to be based on elements which simply are not true. I'll capitalise them for you as you seem to be having trouble taking them in.

ROONEY HAS NOT HANDED IN A TRANSFER REQUEST. I've pointed that out to you at least twice now. Nobody has suggested that he has handed in a formal transfer request - not even the press who have a habit of making things up. From what SAF says he spoke to him informally and in private and Rooney said that if he is unable to play for the club he would have to consider his future with us. There's a big difference between that and handing in a transfer request. Rather than wanting to leave he feels he has to in order to play football.

ROONEY DID NOT LEAK A STORY TO THE PRESS TELLING THEM THAT HE WANTED TO LEAVE. Some of the papers speculated that he'd asked to leave prior to SAF making it public (starting right after he was dropped for the Madrid game) - but none reported it as fact. It wasn't until SAF told the press that he wanted to leave that speculation began. I'm not sure how that is SAF 'doing everything he can to dampen the situation'. It's the equivalent of throwing petrol onto embers.

ROONEY HAS NOT CLAIMED THE BOSS IS 'TREATING HIM WRONG'.
It's my opinion - based on the things I've seen and read - that he has and is being treated unfairly. Rooney has not publicly claimed as much.

AT NO POINT HAVE I SAID THAT I WAS ASHAMED TO BE A UNITED FAN. I said that I was disappointed with some of the way certain fans were talking about Rooney - not limited to this site - but in general.

I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT RE; 'KEEPING A LIST OF NAMES'. It's bad enough that you're misquoting me - more so that you're making things up entirely. Trying to 'win' a discussion involving opinions by making things up that the other person has said is pathetic.

redseven

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To be fair Chris, it was yer man, KG, who was threatening to put us all on the naughty list for daring to put club before player.

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Chris the Redman, great post, though very biased. I agree Rooney has to get a lot fitter and a lot slimmer, and he needs to cut out the smoking. However Rooney is top class player who has given a lot to the club. He has scored and created more goals for the team than any other player during that time. He has also given the club a lot of success during that time. In terms of all round quality, Rooney would be very hard to replace. Also we all know Rooney loves his football and loves playing as a striker, and we all know Rooney plays best when he enjoys playing. Therefore I think we must keep Rooney, as long as he gets fitter, slimmer and stops smoking, and play him in the big games and play him in his preferred position then we shall see the best of Rooney again.

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23 May 2013 13:40:38
Ed's who do you think will be leaving Bayern this summer? With them signing Gotze I can't see Kroos, Muller, Shaqiri, Ribery, and Robben all staying {Ed007's Note - I would say that Ribery and Rooben are certainties to leave, and possibly Shaqiri. I'm sure there will be more as they are planning a major overhaul backed up with serious investment in the squad.}

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Robben will. Ribery might. Shaqiri won't.

redseven

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If Shaqiri is up for grabs I would be interested. I was gutted we missed out on him first time round. But I don't see him leaving. Pep always like to have a more direct option on the bench for emergancies.

I think it hinges on whether they sign Lewandowski or not. I think they may play Gotze upfront as a false no. 9 then have Muller Kroos and Shaqiri in behind. If Lewandowski signs then expect Gotze to drop back and Shaqiri to be pushed out.

If Bayern do beat us to the signing of Lewandowski then maybe it would be worth while making a move for Shaqiri. Zaha Kagawa and Shaqiri behind RvP would be very quick and expansive.

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I would personally rather look at Robben or Ribery, since they are both world class players and would improve our team dramatically. I know they are not the youngest, I know they rely on pace, but they have yet to show any signs of losing any pace and I think with them in our team we would win the league. However they are both unlikely to come to United but it would be great if they did.

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24 May 2013 10:57:51
Personally I think they are a couple of bad eggs, world class they maybe but they seem to have a poor attitude and seem to cause problems. We could do with avoiding problem players while Moyes is trying to find his feet.

Plus considering their ages, their wages and their transfer fee as well as their poor attitude I don't see them as good value or good for the squad.

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23 May 2013 18:06:00
No better team in world football than Porto for making profit on player's estimated £340 Million made in sales in the last 10 years! with just £39 Million spent on players!

MANRED

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Players do not need a work permit in Portugal so they can get all the young South Americans and Brazilians prefer Portugal as a stepping stone to Spain or England.

Sydney!

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They are awesome finding South American talent and selling them for bonker profits.

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LOL I have probably posted 10 times they have the best scouts on the planet and we would be wise to pounch a few of them.

Shahram

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What Syd says. Portugal is a great place for South Americans to start their European careers.

I wonder though - with South American clubs now demanding more for their young talent - whether that will continue to be the case.

redseven

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I don't think it's a case of them having the best scouts but more the fact that it is a lot easier bringing said players in, and that the bigger clubs are aware of the players before them coming to portugal (maybe even deliberately waiting to see how they adapt in europe)

also, would it be against any rules for a bigger club to inform one of the portugese clubs of a player, and say we would buy him off you for x amount in 2-3seasons time if you buy him first (or would they have to be designated feeder clubs?)

dags

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23 May 2013 17:59:44
So, medicals at Monaco for both Joao Moutinho and James Rodriguez. Guess we know where their intentions lie, and it ain't along the lines of passion.

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23 May 2013 18:48:19
Thats abit harsh mate. Have you ever been to Monaco? Its a millionaires playground.

You don't know what offers they had on the table. With Porto wanting silly money for them it may well have been a choice between Monaco or Russia. I know where i'd be heading if that was my choices, and I wouldn't need a fur coat.

Yes we were interested in James Rodriguez, but we weren't prepared to pay the asking price, Monaco have and that's that. Good luck to them, they are both good players, who have no affiliation with any of the clubs interested in them. Then a club based in a beautiful part of europe, comes in for them offering them a huge amount of money to play for them. The project (and I hate that term) is actually an appealing one if i'm honest. They will make Monaco one of the top clubs in europe and they will have world class players to play with.

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I was always wary of Moutinho, when you look at most of his peers in the national team they've all pretty much moved out of Portugal yet he was still there. Good player but how come he never moved before now, and its to another oil rich club with more dosh than brains.

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It will also at least give PSG some much needed opposition as well.

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Well said shappy, I couldn't agree more with u. Its not like top clubs such as barcelon, us real madrid, bayern or any other historical club made a bid for them. If that was the case and then they chose money over prestige ckubs. Then u can argue they went for money. Otherwise u can't really blame them a top club and good wages beautiful place. I jus don't see amy reason why they wouldn't wama move.

Singh

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Hope thet enjoy playing in front of that massive crowd of 15,000
ARB

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They will enjoy the lifestyle as it is absolutely a stunning place and tax free also makes a big difference. It is quite expensive though but I am sure they can afford it :)

Most people don't realize but it is one of the hardest places in the world to get residency and that itself is worth a lot.

If you want the best week of your life get down there for the Monaco grand Prix.

Shahram

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Knowing how expensive a place it is Shahram, I don't know if I can afford the "best week of my life" lol.

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Shappy

It is if you want to go to certain places i. e. jimmy's, cafe de paris etc etc a few friends of mine go every year and they rent a place and love it. I went a few years ago wife does not permit it anymore:) and had a blast.

Shahram

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23 May 2013 16:20:57
Done deal Moutinho and Rodriguez have joined Monaco for a combined 70 Million Euros! one of the list!

MANRED

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I don't think he was on the list. I am sure we were interested and had enquired but were never going to make a bid for him at porto's price.

I get the sense most of our spending might be from within the PL. Bale sounds quite juicy :) and Dimaria on the right

Shahram

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23 May 2013 17:12:06
Just heard news on the radio in South Africa that Rooney to PSG for £40m. The station never tells rumours only facts! I love Rooney and everything he has done for the club but his current form and the situation the he has left the club in, I'd gladly let him go! Fingers crossed we use that money to go for a top quality signing.

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Well I would say it's a rumour mate. If it was sealed then I am sure it would have been confirmed by now.

Sydney!

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We are finally getting to a proper valuation.
Wouldn't mind selling him for 40 million plus.

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Tbh I thought we would struggle to get 30m for him

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If Liverpool thinks Andy Carroll was worth 35 million then even they would claim 40 million is a bargain :)
But I wish he stays with us if he really wants to

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23 May 2013 15:06:46
So glad to hear Rio has signed a new one year deal! The knowldege and experience he will pass on to the younger lads as well as the help he will give to DM in his first season as boss will be brilliant. He deserves it - to be 34 and to have just had one of your best seasons yet is incredible, fair play and hopefully he has another year or 2 after as well!

Stuarty

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23 May 2013 14:59:34
I'm sure most of you know already but Rio Ferdinand has agreed a new one year contract! Great news.

Ozwald

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I think he is on a similar deal to giggs, won't get many games but in there for his impact in the dressing room, and too work closely with the new boss

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23 May 2013 14:42:56
After the Champions League final the transfer merry go round will start in earnest. With new managers at Bayern Chelsea City Madrid PSG and Utd it is going to be very hard to get the best stars in to Old Trafford. Firstly we just cannot compete financially with teams with oligarchs or oil money behind them. Then we have to factor in the Sir Alex effect. which means that there will def be a doubt now in potential targets minds as to whether Moyes can replicate the success of Sir Alex. Most players are not diehard Utd fans. If they are given the chance to go Bayern with Pep, Madrid with eg Ancelotti or Chelsea with Mourinho and get mega wages and signing on fees. or come to us with Moyes then realistically they will not be at Old Trafford this year. So we have to be realistic and not heap too much expectation on ourselves only to suffer inevitable disappointment. Moyes will try to blend players together who have the desire and strength of character that is part of our ethos. They might be younger and not at the top level yet but hopefully he will show once again that a team is more than the sum of its parts

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While I don't completely agree with you on Utd's ability to attract great players, I see your point, especially when it comes to particular kind of players. But honestly, we don't want the type of player that will jump to the next highest bidder at a moments notice. With all of these oil backed teams competing for the highest "brand" player, Utd will have to rely more on developing youth - much like Dortmund. And Utd has always been great at doing so. This will hopefully instill loyalty into our next generation of players and - as you said - create a great sum of parts team (with the odd great player thrown in there).

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I think the original poster has it spot on

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Original poster is correct. Some posters here still think players come to a club because they want to play for that club. Wrong. Only one percent think that way, the rest go where the money, lifestyle and chances of trophies are.
So stop deluding yourself that some of the best talent should wake up oneday and think iI must play for united. It simply is not the case.
NoMidfield

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23 May 2013 13:57:56
Ferdinand has signed a 1 year deal, bloody well deserved if you ask me. This time last year i'd be saying its his time to go but after the season he's just had he's shown why he has been the best english centre back of his generation.

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Great news. I have to say I was a little worried and wondered why it had been left so late.

redseven

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23 May 2013 13:51:56
Is it not more likely that Moyes will have a look at the squad and decide in the Jan window or next year? Surely splashing out 20/30 mill in the summer is foolhardy considering he will have a different viewpoint and could possibly get more out of certain players, tactics etc? The though of Bale coming in or Ronaldo coming back seems like pie in the sky. Are the board really going to hand this over this summer? Granted we need certain players but I can't see see too much ''knee-jerkery'' going on

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Utd cannot afford to have him fail, so I can't believe they won't make some really good signings to start the season off with the fans really behind him.
Lets face it this can be construed as a weak signing if he doesn't hit the ground running

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Utd never does much business in the Jan window because that when prices are inflated and desperation sets in (especially if Utd doesn't do any business in the summer). Plus, most of the scouting and short lists have already be done before Moyes came in. SAF will also still be a major part in who comes in/out. While I agree that Bale or Ronnie will not be coming in, I think it would be foolish not to supplement our squad to attempt to slowly mold to how Moyes plans on playing.

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23 May 2013 13:47:33
Rio has agreed a new one year deal - Official Manchester United site

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23 May 2013 13:44:59
Excellent news to hear that Rio has signed a one-year extension. It surely means we can now forget about spending money on a CB until next summer and the funds can instead be used for more important areas around the squad. This is also good for keeping normality around the squad during this transitional period. I think this is one issue sorted and sorted early thankfully.

Sydney!

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Good news syd, He did a fantastic job last year.

One more year of his experience will be good for the team as we need few seniors in the team to help the young kids.

Singh

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23 May 2013 17:19:16
Syd my own theory is that this summer we will sign four players, two midfielders one a first team player and one a squad player, a winger and a striker. That see's Scholes, Anderson, Nani and Rooney replaced. Then next summer a centre back, left back and one other, probably another attacking player. MrE

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23 May 2013 13:43:29
Really happy that Ferdinand has signed an extension, still a great centre half who looks to have a very big impact behind the scenes too.

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23 May 2013 13:24:58
Hi Guys,

Was having a catch up with an old friend last night and he told me a great story that I thought I’d share with you. Few years back a fella called Mick Rathbone became the 1st team physio at a football league club, the first thing the manager Gary Peters told him was that he would be taking the first team for the first 2 weeks of pre season. So he was going to give him a Senior Pro and he wanted them to come up with a pre season running programme at the local park. So a couple of days before they were due back, Mick and the senior pro went down to the local park and started looking at possible runs they could get the team to do. First they started with a 20 minute run one way around, then the pro said let's try it the other way round, so again they ran for 20 minutes the other way round. Then the pro says let's test that hill out for hill sprints, so they did 12 hill sprints (15 second up and 1 minute rest down), then the pro says, let's try it with just a 50 second rest, so again they did another 12. Anyway, after 2 and a half hours of non stop running they get in the car and drive off. On the way back Mick turns to the pro and says “You’re enthusiastic aren't you, have you ever thought about coaching?”, so the young pro turns to him and says “Yes I have, and I truly believe that by the time I’m 45 I will have been voted the LMA Premier League manager of the season”, so of course Mick tries not to laugh. Anyway turns out the Pro was wrong, because by the time he was 45 he had been voted it 3 times, because the Senior Pro was David Moyes.

Think that’s a great story myself. Another couple of stories he told me were that David Moyes chose to do his UEFA A coaching badge in Scotland, as did Jose Mourinho, the reason for this was because of the background of Scottish managers, and the unfaltering drive and determination they have from an early age to get where they want to be. Mourinho and Moyes believed that by taking their A badge in Scotland they would learn more, seems it worked. Another reason was because the course tutors in Scotland were Walter Smith, another fella who’s name I can't quite remember but who is very high up in UEFA now, and Alex Ferguson, so you can see the attraction to taking you’re A badge in Scotland. Moyes said that he learnt just as much in the pub after sessions just listening to the tutors talking and having a laugh with them. Every Pre Season, even once he’d passed his A badge, he would go back for 2 weeks to be part of the A courses because he knew he would learn more still from just being there.

In the footballing world Moyes is very well respected, more so than you and I realise. My mate says that United have got a very special man in charge and the fans don’t realise just how special he is yet, but they will in time.

Just thought I’d share because my friend has some great stories from being around football for years as a physio for the PFA. Next time I meet up I’ll be sure to share any more that are relevant to United.

OsgoodIsKing

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Thanks for that Os.

Sydney!

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Great story.

Goes a long way to explaining Moyes' often feared "horseshoe" training sessions. Anyone know anything about these sessions?

It's always been my opinion that United where not as fit as they could have been, regardless of the last minute goals. They just never seemed that fit. I reckon Moyes will elevate us in terms of fitness a lot.

Thoughts?

RedDub

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23 May 2013 16:35:28
Cheers Os. I've heard other stories as well like when he was at one of the bristols his mate got him to coach his sunday league side who were a roughhouse pub team and they had something like three or four successive promotions. Ok its sunday league but the bloke was a pro player giving up his free time. It says to me he's very dedicated. MrE {Ed007's Note - The other guy at Largs was probably ex-Scotland manager Andy Roxburgh.}

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Here's one, that ties in nicely with Rio's extension.

My mate at work before I left, was invited on a works weekend away in London all paid for etc. He's a diehard Gooner, Asian lad who hates United, to set the scene. Apparently, his mate worked at the hotel they were staying at and the United boys were there at the time. Something went wrong to do with the viewing, blu-ray etc kicking off. My mates' mate, went to the room to sort it and was made to feel 1inch tall by none other than Wayne Rooney, who was throwing fits and getting aggro. Once all was sorted, Rio took my mates' mate aside, had a quiet, apologetic word and gave him £100 to apologise. I've always despised Rio;s wannabe gangsta persona, but the dude bleeds red, gives his all and according to my mate (who was there during the payoff of sorts), was the nicest guys imaginable. and he also thought Rio was a person prior to the incident. Said he was down to earth and a lovely bloke. I'm landed to keep him lads, he bleeds the red shirt and i'm glad he's sticking around whatever I might think of his off-field persona.

RED_SKY

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23 May 2013 12:52:19
if rooney has asked for transfer utd should wash hands of him. get the full value /fee now, he is only going to go down hill now. we need ronaldo back let's break bank to get him. when we buy this summer it has got to be top top quality. names that fit bill are ronaldo bale ruezs lewandowski fabregas. kagawa will come good don't worry about that the boy is class. we don't need strootman falcao cannavani baines fellini all over rated and over priced. the young lads from res should be given chance powell cole januzzi they will come good with better players around them

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How much do you think we would have to pay for the best left back in the premier league for him to be 'overpriced'?

Do you mean Januzaj? He is not ready yet and would get eaten up in the Premier league at the moment, give him another year, maybe 2 and he could be ready. Larnell Cole may never make it at the club and anybody suddenly suggesting he will I am guessing has just watched the 2 reserve games at Old Trafford.

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We need to stop with the bale reports and wishes, its not going to happen!

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I wouldn't hold my breath for Bale, Ronaldo, or Reus.

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23 May 2013 12:33:27
This might have been mentioned before but how about this for a theory.
SAF stated that Rooney had asked for a transfer. Leaving the problem with Moyes to sort.

Either way it would make it difficult for Wayne to stay at the club and also vast majority of people/fans saying its a good time to sell him etc. simply because he has not been the player we know, for 1 maybe 2 seasons. Reason being for being played out of position and possible fitness concerns.

So what if SAF used this as a motivator, (and Wayne didn't ask for a transfer) to get Rooney back to his best. To prove himself that he can still do it and get back to the level he was 18 months ago. To make it known to David Moyes that he wants to be here. That this time the club hold the upper hand as apposed to the last Transfer request.

Sambo

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But a lot of fans are now well and truly p*ssed off with Rooney. If he starts next season in a United shirt the fans will continue to show him how they feel about him. It's not going to help him perform better is it? I believe it would cause more disruption and problems than Moyes needs starting in such a huge job.

I think Rooney threw his toys out as he was unfit and SAF was playing him wherever he needed to fill a gap. He has been a poor professional and has looked disinterested. He needs to move on now. Thanks for his past efforts but both club and player need to go their separate ways.

Brendan81

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Its possible but I think by saying he is not for sale as well is a way of notching the price up.

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I don't buy it.

The situation is at a point now where most fans seem to want Rooney out. This will allow Moyes to sell Rooney without the fans getting on his back. That, I believe, is why SAF chose to publicly announce Rooney's desire to leave. It's also why I'm starting to question how forceful Rooney was during these 'informal talks' with SAF and whether he even asked to leave at all (as opposed to saying that he wanted to play in the big games).

Rooney is being pushed out.

redseven {Ed004's Note - So if this is the case why hasn't Rooney come out and said I have not asked to leave the club? Why not defend himself? He defended himself over his twitter account why couldn't he put one tweet that would take 30 seconds saying I want to stay and finish my career at United?}

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So Fergie basically told a big whopper of a fib on national tv? Is that what you're saying?

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Redseven, you are correct. Rooney is being nudged out of the club. If SAF believes it's for the good of the club then who are we to question that? He knows what Rooney's like more than any of us. What 'WE' know doesn't exactly put him in a good light does it?

Sydney!

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To be honest, I think SAF was waiting for the moment to tuck Rooney up for what he did to the club and to himself a couple years ago with the contract saga. SAF doesn't forget and doesn't let people get 1 over on him, we just weren't in a position to sell him back then but we are now if that's the choice that is made.

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Redseven is living in a fantasy world.

REDFAITH

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Ed004 -

According to some of the papers he has - but of course this, like most paper talk, could be rubbish.

Perhaps he was so hurt by the way SAF publicly denounced him and in turn his own fans booed him at the parade - that he now wants to leave? He'll have access to the internet and will have seen some of the stuff these so called fans are writing about him as well. I know that if I'd been working somewhere for nine years and was treated that way I'd probably want to leave as well.

redseven {Ed004's Note - I also know if I was being paid 200k+ a week funded by these fans then I would do my up most to keep in top shape so I could pay them back in some way. Not by handing in a transfer request and putting pictures of his child in an Everton picture over the internet}

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Ed004-

His fitness is an issue and one that needs to be addressed - but I'd disagree with your other points.

Raising concerns about being dropped for big games is very different to handing in a transfer request. To this point he has not handed a transfer request in (this time around).

His wage - I'm told - is something like £160k + performance add ons which could take it past the £200k mark. Still a lot - but not an outright £200k+ and paid for more by the success and image of the club (to which he has contributed more than most) than the fans. You forget that it was the hierarchy of the club who gave him said contract as well - who at the time obviously felt that giving it to him was justified and necessary.

I haven't seen the pictures of his child in an Everton shirt - but given that his family are Everton fans I'd guess that the shirt could have been a gift. Had he posted a picture of himself in an Everton shirt I'd agree that it;s a little disrespectful - but a child? No.

redseven {Ed004's Note - Or the board felt pressured into giving him a new contract as he had agreed terms with City}

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Ports, you are dead right, fergie never forgets and that was his parting shot to Rooney. I can possibly believe that Rooney might have had a conversation with fergie early in the season and said, play me in my position or I'm out, and fergie could now have translated that into, Rooney has asked for a transfer.
Either way, I hope the situation is sorted soon, one way or the other.
Nomidfield

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If he handed in a written transfer request doesn't he lose his cut of the transfer fee? Which if PSG are offering 40 mill stand to be a decent wedge.

However saying something in a conversation with Fergie is easier to deny as its verbal with no witnesess, unless Fergie bugs his own office.

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Mort

I don't believe he gets a cut of the transfer fee but compensation from a club given that he has a contract in place. Others please feel free to jump in.

Shahram

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Ed004 -

I forget exactly - but seem to recall Rooney still had just under 2 years on his contract at the time. It was never a case of give him the contract or he goes straight to City.

If he had agreed terms with City it would have been tantamount to them tapping him up and we'd have put in a complaint to FIFA. Chelsea received a multi window transfer ban for tapping up a minor youth prospect. I imagine City's punishment would have been equal to Chelsea's at the very least for tapping up our star player (at the time).

That said I don't know all of the intricate details of the situation -Only that he asked to leave. Claimed it was due to a lack of ambition and then signed a new deal. Perhaps he had spoken with City - but all the same - the hierarchy chose to give him what he wanted (in the sense that they could just as easily have not - keeping him till the end of the season and then replacing him).

redseven

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23 May 2013 12:13:36
Hi guys, first time poster but I’ve been reading and enjoying this site in work everyday for months so thought may as well join in and give my 2 cents worth. My name is Stuarty from Belfast btw!

Firstly I’d like to say congratulations to the lads on securing the 20th league title in emphatic fashion. Although the opposition perhaps flattered us a little bit, we still had to get the job done; you can only beat what’s in front of you! I would expect a stronger challenge from the usual suspects next season.

Massive thanks to SAF, still hard to contemplate him not being on the touchline next year. But Moyes was the right choice I reckon, just needs to keep the momentum going and keep building. Also to Scholesy, probably the best midfielder the BPL has seen; thanks a million!
On a slightly sadder note, terrible news about Brian Greenhoff’s passing, although I’m too young to have ever seen him play, it is a loss to the MUFC family; condolences to family and friends!

Onto my actual post, short and sweet - was speaking with my brother about potential signings this summer which got me thinking, do you guys think the signings we make will be DM's own choice or will SAF have had signings lined up already? Or perhaps it will be a mixture of both? Who would have the bigger say on any signings do you think? It’s hard to see SAF targeting the likes of Fellaini etc. Just an interesting thought as it is Moyes’ team now after all so really he should have control but don’t know if he will be given a free reign on signings just yet – next year probably.
Btw, the likes of Kloot, Shappy etc, (the regular posters) do you guys all live in Manchester? Envious if so! ;)
Thanks! {Ed004's Note - Good first post and I think targets will already have been decided upon by the club as they have been working hard for months according to SAF but they will ask Moyes for his opinion thats why I find it unlikely Fellaini would be looked at but I reckon Baines might be an option as Utd have looked at him in the past and Moyes rates him highly}

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23 May 2013 13:04:38
Welcome. I would guess the first conversation with Moyes would have been about transfers, targets and the like. I think it'll be a mix. We've been scouting certain players for two years. And the positions we need to buy hasn't changed. I think they'll both have similar ideas on targets. MrE

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I think this summer SAF will have sorted the transfers and will have spoken to Moyes about it. If Moyes desperately wants a certain player I would think United could back him in that though. Next summer will be his first summer of going for his own targets.

Manchester born and bred here.

Brendan81

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23 May 2013 13:56:40
Good post and welcome to the site. I doubt the transfer targets will change too much. I expect Moyes will have his own ideas about how he wants the team to play but I expect him to rely on the current United scouts to find his targets.

Kloot lives in the shadow of OT which makes him a special fan. Me like most of us near billion United fans live a little further a field. Lol. Me i'm in Bristol for now, but will be moving further north in the not too distant future.

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23 May 2013 12:08:51
Our possible centre midfield composition for next season might read giggsy, cleverly, fletch, ando, shinji, carrick. 1 or 2 additions from the reserves set up would be nice. adnan janujaz maybe? And probably a signing who would would bring a bit more bite and steel. I think we will play a midfield 3 in most most games next season with carrick and the new signing as sitting midfielders and shinji in the attacking midfielder role. A mix of steel, flair and creativity.
Mancunian dream {Ed004's Note - I agree though I could see Anderson leaving and I'm not sure Fletcher will make it back or be the player he once was so I reckon two midfielders are needed and one who will eventually replace Carrick who is 32 or something now. Ideally Strootman/Bender/Vidal/Wanyama and Gundogan/Modric/Fabregas/Alcantara}

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To serve the purpose for a balance midfield 3, fellaini would be a good addition for his physical bite and strenght. Although he is not quick, I still think it is not a breeze for forwards to run past him. He takes up good positions when receiving passes and when his team are under siege. His range of passes are more than decent and he poses a threat from set pieces. His finishing, even if he is played deeper than at everton should potentially harvest a good return from midfield.
Mancunian dream

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23 May 2013 11:59:25
Hi guys, do you think we should buy baines when we have evra, fabio and buttner vying for a slot. Granted evra has been defensively shaky and the other 2 are still raw talent. Probably the investment and immediate urgency would be on the wing and central midfielder.
Mancunian dream {Ed004's Note - I reckon Evra could be sold he will 33 during next season and neither of the other 2 are good enough to replace him yet imo}

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Thanks ed, for the reply.

Yep if evra goes, baines who has been fairly consistent for 3 - 4 seasons looks a good safe bet. His set pieces and crosses are gem and I reckon he has the potential to make an improvement in his overall game if he plays at united where the competition for place is more fierce and he will face wingers who are of a higher standard in europe.
Saying that, I am hoping for fabio to make a breakthrough.
Mancunian dream {Ed004's Note - I just can not see Fabio making the break through this season coming unfortunately and he is always getting injured}

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I haven't hidden my feelings on Baines and if the choice was mine I would not bother with him. I think his attacking contribution is what people make their judgment on without paying to much attention to his defensive ability.

I do not watch Everton alot, only when their on TV and against United and what I have seen is that he gets forward well but once possession is lost, is out of position, similar to Evra. He is not the quickest, so up against quick wide players, in 1 v 1 situations becomes exposed, because he isn't the quickest, teams tend to pop the ball in behind him which results in Jagielka or Distin coming across to clear up. Crosses to the back post he is vulnerable as he's not the tallest and not good in the air. Pienaar does a lot of defensive work to help out Baines, something people said Young does for Evra which is why Evra gets a lot of criticism for.

Attacking wise he is argubly the best in the league but attacking has not been an issue for us this season, i'd prefer a more defensive LB or a young LB who's enthusiasm and energy would get them out of trouble if/when they get caught out at times and who could be coached to read the game and understand the role and position.

Baines is 28, 4 years younger then Evra and doesn't offer anymore defensively in my opinion and for £12-15 million is not worth it. I'd get Fabio to be undertudy to Rafael, try and get Shaw and go with Shaw with Buttner as his understudy and if we can't sign Shaw, give Evra 1 more year with Buttner getting more games.

I know a lot of people rate Baines and assists, goals, set piece deliveries are great but not something we are lacking in the team. {Ed004's Note - Well we are lacking goals from free kicks but I think you are underrating Baines defensively. He offers a lot more than Evra imo as atleast he makes the effort to sprint back into position}

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Ed004, I understand your point and I know I am in the minority regarding Baines, maybe even a minority of 1 :) and I can appreciate he's better then Evra but for the money, for his age, I would prefer a more solid LB or quicker LB, he does make more of an effort to get back then Evra but so does Buttner, who is quicker and I think more physical than Baines.

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23 May 2013 11:52:44
Ed, who would be your main signings? Mine would be, Fellaini, Strootman, Baines, Lewandowski, Di Maria and a few youngsters like Shaw, Zouma and Oliver Torres. {Ed004's Note - I am hoping for either Baines or Shaw signed to replace Evra, then Lars Bender/Strootman/Wanyama to replace Fletcher/Scholes and Gundogan (apparently he has a 25 million euro release clause) to replace Anderson, and then Di Maria/Rodriguez to replace Nani and Lewandowski/Sanchez/Isco/Ozil/Reus etc to replace Rooney}

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23 May 2013 10:29:45
Loyalty, trust and respect and mutual factors - never forget that when thinking about the current Rooney situation.

3 years ago, he held our club to ransom. Yes, he got his pay rise, however he lost the loyalty of club, and of Sir Alex Ferguson. In my eyes, he essentially lost the protection of the Manchester United family.

3 years later, and now Rooney needs our football club, the staff and the fans to support and get behind him. Guess what? The protection is no longer there. You always reap what you sow.

WF Red Devil

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Here here WF

Brendan81

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*are* mutual factors (typo!)

WF Red Devil

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Protection my bottom. He's been hung out to dry!

Yours is a one sides post. Personally when Rooney questioned our ambition 3 years ago I think he was right. We had sold roonie, let revel go to our neighbours and were buying nobodies. As it turns out we then had a big couple of summers which kept us ahead of the game but at the time he wasn't the only one questioning what direction the club was going in. We were getting weaker not stronger.

Now fergie has hung him out to dry. I love what Fergie has done for the club but by all accounts it seems the comment from Rooney about leaving was in a private conversation and in reference to wanting to play in he big games and if Fergie wasn't going to play him maybe he should leave.

Absolutely 100% hope we don't sell him. And find the one eyes comments on here clearly lacking any sense of reason or humanity.

Red Bear {Ed004's Note - You are looking at with one eye as well. Please tell me how it is appropriate in this day in age with all the scientific research and equipment available that a player can return to the club, that pays him over 200k+ a week, more than a stone over weight? I am truly grateful for what Rooney has done for the club over the years but it is blatantly obvious that he is beginning to slow down and he has lost his first touch that used to make him a fantastic player and arguably one of the best in the world. I honestly think having Rooney in this side will hamper our development because he is going to start picking up injuries and by trying to replace him gradually he will just start complaining again and disrupt the squad morale. How can you justify paying him over 200k+ a week? I can think of a lot more players on half his wage who would offer a lot more than what he has this season}

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Top reply Ed004. Rooney questioned the club's ambition and in the same season we reached the CL final and won the league. It was nothing related to ambition and everything related to him wanting a pay rise. This year even without his transfer request I would have wanted him to leave and replaced.

His pace and acceleration have gone and you don't get that back.

REDFAITH

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23 May 2013 12:08:55
Red Bear, do you honestly believe that tripe about Rooney questioning our 'lack' of ambition? The 'lack of ambition' was a ploy used to obtain a better contract in my opinion.

The club had just sold Ronaldo to his boyhood club, and Tevez was becoming very difficult to deal with. Chances are in a different world, where Ronaldo's boyhood club was Manchester United, and Tevez was a diplomatic as a Swiss politician, we wouldn't have sold them as there would have been no need to. At that particular moment in time we were clearly in a transition period, there was an opportunity to manipulate the situation, which he and his advisor's took full advantage of.

What was the outcome? Rooney was given 'assurances' on our ambition, and an extra £100,000 per week in his salary. What would have happened, if at that time Sir Alex said to Rooney;

"Ok son, I was going to give you an extra £100,000 per week in YOUR salary, but as you're concerned with the clubs ambition, I'll take that back, and use it instead to obtain a new player".

Do you think Rooney would have been happy, or do you think that just possibly.

WF Red Devil

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Great post Red Bear.

Rooney questioning the club's ambition happened at a time when we had just sold Ronaldo and let Tevez go. A large number of the fans were questioning the club's ambition to the extent that some were asking for the owners to be ousted. In my eyes Rooney's protest was no different and in no way worse than that of the fans. Moreover - he actually seemed to get results in a sense that the quality of our signings has picked up significantly since.

Rooney has been shoved towards the exit now with the knowledge that fickle fans would mask the fact that the way the club is treating him is wrong.

The same fans talk about how we are so much better than City because we have stability and that at United Mancini would never have been ousted off the back of one less than exceptional season. In actuality I think there are a lot of similarities between how Mancini and Rooney have and are being treated. Should we get rid of Moyes if he doesn't deliver in his first season? It would certainly make more sense than Rooney going given that we know that he has what it takes to deliver!

By all means; if the club no longer sees Rooney in it's long term plans him leaving should be explored - but not like this. I'd like to see him given another season to prove himself and score some of the 52 goals he needs to become our all-time leading goalscorer. I'm sure if SAF had simply told him as much in private he could have either picked up his game or at the very least left us on good terms rather than being insulted and hated on by these so called fans.

redseven {Ed004's Note - But by giving him another season what if he continues to deteriorate and throws more huffs and throws his toys out of the pram more? Then do you make possibly a 20-30 million loss on his transfer fee (Only one year left) and a further 12 million in wages for a player who will play a bit part role? Is it worth a 40 million pound risk hoping Rooney comes back in shape so that he can play a few club games?}

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Too many people are worried that we are selling the unplayable Rooney of 2004-2010, we are not. The truth is that Rooney left us in 2010. If we want to get the best possible return then we must sell this summer. It's a shame we cannot sell Rooney and buy back an 18 year old Rooney.

Sydney!

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Nice, logical, reasoned, well-thought out response, Simmo. Losing the argument, so resort to the insults. Classy.

StevieK

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Ed004 -

As far as I'm concerned the risk is only as great as a new signing. I look at players like Young, Nani and Ando; who (combined) cost the club far more than Rooney and imo their combined contribution to the club has been minimal compared to Rooney's. If we cashed in and bought somebody else I'd see that as a bigger risk given that we know Rooney CAN perform in this league and at this club.

Realistically Rooney's value won't drop entirely over one year anyway. I expect he's worth about £25m-£30m at the moment and would guess that another season like this one (which I still maintain wasn't terrible) and the fact that he'd be in his final year would put his value around the £18m-£25m mark. For £5m-£7m I'd certainly take the risk, yes.

The situation changes a little if we happen to be interested in Bale, Neymar or Ronaldo and there's truth in PSG willing to pay up to £40m for Rooney. In terms of ability, marketing value, influence on moral and perception of the club - these are the only three signings which would justify letting Rooney go. That said; they would still not justify the way in which he is being let go.

redseven {Ed004's Note - Rooney would go for less next year baring in mind he will only have 1 year left on his contract and theres a massive difference from potentially getting 40 million from PSG this summer and under 20 million + a years wages next summer that's a massive loss. Thats about 30 million extra which could go towards getting Bale imo. How can he expect the club to show him respect if he has showed little of it to them? He has now asked for a transfer atleast once and he is not even showing consideration of his club by being a stone + over weight and due to that I don't think he will ever regain the speed and touch that made him a once great}

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Agree with Sydney! on this one. Rooney 2013 is nowhere near Rooney 2004-2010 in terms of ability. He is replacable now imo.

REDFAITH

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23 May 2013 13:37:37
Some of you are getting this backwards. Truth is Rooney wanted more money and had a very good offer from City. He gave us the ultimatum of matching it or he goes to City. Nothing about ambition all about his wages. When the club looked to match it as we couldn't let our best player leave to our rivals Rooney u turns and agrees to sign. But with the fans on his back about asking to leave and wanting to go to City out come the stuff about ambition. Yes the fans had been asking those questions and Rooney just tapped into that but just to cover himself with the fans after changing his mind on leaving after we agreed his terms. The whole ambition thing came into this later. It was only ever about money. If I thought he could get into shape i'd keep him. But I doubt he will and as the ed says its too big a risk. Who twice asks to leave United? MrE

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MrE -

Who asks to leave twice?

Scholes, Ronaldo and SAF. I recall a time a while back when Giggs wanted to leave as well.

Admittedly Scholes and SAF were retiring as much as leaving - but each considered leaving while they were capable of carrying on and still of value to the club.

Ronaldo however - asked to leave twice and forced a move away - yet pretty much everyone (myself included) would welcome him back with open arms.

Before you say that it was to go to his boyhood club I recall quotes from when he was still with us talking about how he would love to play for Barca or Real one day. If it was simply a case of him wanting to go to his boyhood club he would NEVER consider a move to Barca - so what I think it was down to was him wanting a new challenge. I see little difference in somebody wanting a new challenge (or even wanting to play for their boyhood club if that was the case) and wanting to play football in general.

redseven

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I am amused by the nonsense and the poor wayne stuff. The guy is an employee of the club who gets paid the highest wage in the league. He has been poor for 2 years now and we are sure as hell not going to give him an extension with more money.

He has zero emotional connection to our club and has never hid the fact that he is a scouser at heart and an evertonian.

We are going to need to improve our squad to be competitive next year and he does not factor in the teams make up as he used to. When you are sitting on the bench for one of biggest games of the season against Real Madrid, that should be enough evidence that he is not that important to the club.

He has asked for a transfer again and you lot who want to cuddle him go do it at his next club. I read PSG would pay us 40 million and it would be christmas gift come early for us as club f they are stupid enough to pay that sort of money. I say take it and run to the bank, hell I would even offer to move him at our expense to paris including the private jet and the whole lot :)

BTW if any truth 40 million for Rooney, brigs some key players that are currently out of price range into the summer transfer window as possibles. I just hope we get these guys (nani, Anderson, Rooney) sold early so we can go after our targets early.

Shahram

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Shahram
was Rooney really poor last year?
Hasn't played well this year granted but 34 goals last year that's 4more than Rvp this year and people keep going on about him being poor.

Jred

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Shahram, even £30m for Rooney, £20m for Nani, Ando, Bebe & Kiko. Plus the amount saved on salaries with plenty leaving, we will have a tidy kitty to go out and buy some good players. Whatever happens with Rooney, I hope it happens early so we can wrap up some good deals for players.

Sydney!

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Jred

I am not the sit on the fence type and yes he has done nothing for me in the last 2 seasons given what we have to benchmark him off and his wages.

Since his ankle injury he has underperformed in every big game whether at the International level or club level and yes last year he was poor in my view.

I know people will throw stats at me for this comment but as I have said many times before stats are deceiving. Based on his stats this year he would be in the top 7 or 8 players in the league but we all know that is far from the truth.

I want to also add I have no hate or dislike for the player but think he should be moved on, we do not need a circus act or the distraction with a new manager and a lot of uncertainty and clubs like chelsea and city who will be better next year and prefer to get our energy and focus on buying players who will improve us and getting rid of dead wood and disruptive players.

Shahram

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Syd

30 million is fine by me too. I was surprised to see the 40 million number in the press and think if any truth we have hit the jackpot. I agree and think the sooner it happens the more the possibility we may see a big player come in. If we get let's say 60 million from player sales and assume have another 40 million to spend that is quite a large transfer kitty and we can greatly improve the team with the right players.

You have also stated this before, early means we can move early and compete for some of the top players. My worst fear is a prolonged saga of moving these guys and missing out on players when the window opens. City made the same mistake last year and paid for it dearly.

With Mourinho at Chelsea, you know they are going to move early with lots of funds and city will be better with Pellegrini as I never rated Mancini anyway. He is very underrated manager but will surprise a lot of people.

Not too worried about Arsenal and Spurs as we will see a repeat of this year with those 2 fighting it out for 4th place.

I don't know why but I get the sense Bale might be on the cards with the Rooney sale. A Bale, Lewandowski, Di maria and a CM would be an incredible summer and will make us one of the favorites for CL.

Shahram

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Ed004 -

As I said - if one of those three players was a realistic target and selling Rooney was the only way to get them then I would agree to him leaving. My issue is that I don't see any of them being available to us.

The only way I see Ronaldo leaving is if RM sign Bale. I do not see Bale leaving this season and do not see Neymar heading to the EPL. As such I'd rather Rooney stayed put for another year giving him a chance to prove himself. Bale, Ronaldo and Neymar will all be available next summer (assuming Neymar doesn't move on this year) - and if he's still not in shape - then it will be the right time for him to go.

At this point Rooney is no longer our best player but he is still our most marketable player. Nearly every poster, picture, calender, etc I've seen as of late has (unfortunately) had his face on. Imagine he's probably our biggest name when it comes to shirt sales as well although I'm not inclined to check. I'm not suggesting that he should stay for this reason - but that financially speaking the revenue generated by him being at the club helps to offset some of the risk/cost you're talking about.

redseven {Ed004's Note - Though IMO it would not be hard to make RVP the face of Manchester United. The camera is never off him in football matches}

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I personally hope we don't sell him. He's not as bad as fans are making out. Also, everyone has always said we must give our players full backing, but we seem to forget he's still a Manchester united player.
If we sell him to Chelsea, we are all going to regret it. Anyone thinking he's finished at 27, is clearly not thinking right.
Played in his true position, he will be a fantastic player, make no mistake, selling him will be a disaster.
Also, if we do sell him, who do we buy? Is the money going to be spent on world class players?
Nimidfield

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Sharham
I don't count goals as stats, scoring is the whole point of the game.
If we had a player next year year who done nothing but score 34 goals he would of had a good season.
Rossi, Muller rush lineker, wright all goal scores who didn't do much else
Any player who scores 34 goals in the EPL has had a good season, and this is where I stop listening to what is an obvious biased assessment of a player when people try to say he scored 34 but was poor.
I would say him and Valencia were our best players last year but both have been poor this year how ever I think some people seem to struggle to give an unbiased opinion.
I can't remember a single negative post last season or during the summer in regard to Rooney.
If any United player had managed 34 goals this season I have no doubt he would of had a good season.
That said the Rooney post are killing the site imo same people saying the same thing day after day.

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23 May 2013 18:05:28
redseven I see you skipped past everything I said and jumped on the last sentence. You can scrub Scholes and Fergie from your comments. Our greatest ever manager thought about retiring changed his mind and won us how many trophies. Scholes our greatest player of the premier league era was entitled to retire and didn't have to come back. As for Ronaldo fine he asked to leave. But we got a world record fee for him. And whilst he was here he was professional, gave a hundred per cent and kept himself in shape. Total contrast to Rooney. MrE {Ed007's Note - Remember though that Ronaldo had no choice, slaves only to what they are told.}

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Ed007, Ohh come on, Ronaldo loves blatter ;). Poor slaves at more than 100,000k a week. What would Chick Charnley have to say about the "slave comment". May be Ronaldo should have used traffic cones!

Deeps. {Ed007's Note - hahahah :-)

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Jred

Again if you want to go by stats then post them. I read somewhere he has one of the worst shot to goal ratios of any striker (don't know how true that is) but post his 2011/2012 stats including who he scored against and how many in open play and how many shots he took.

I agree the site is getting ruined by this rooney debate and people are either in his camp in on the other side of the argument and that will not change. Time will prove one side of the argument.

Shahram

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Ed004 -

Guessing this post will be banished to banter 2 very shortly - but for what it's worth I agree to an extent with your point about it not being difficult to make RVP the face of the club.

Given his age however - do you think it would be wise? There's a chance that in 2-3 years time he'll be leaving the club and it would take a year or so to push him forwards as the face of the club.

Rooney being English and having been one of the players we've been 'marketing' for the past nine years has served us well. We have not had to keep switching around and as a result Wayne Rooney is known all over.

I wonder how many people outside of Europe know at this point who RVP is? I can't imagine that there will be too many none-football fans in this country who know - where as I'd wager that 90%+ of 10-70 year olds in the UK would recognise a picture of Wayne Rooney and know that he was a United player.

RVP is a top quality player but in terms of 'brand' isn't massive. Rooney isn't half the player that Ronaldo, Becks and Messi are - but he's probably as well known.

redseven

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23 May 2013 10:11:08
Had a dream last our big signing was Steven Taylor of Newcastle, turned into a nightmare

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Dear god no

Brendan81

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23 May 2013 09:40:43
I believe Moyes will have to make a statement in the summer window to show he means business.

Id be happy with the following though:

ins: thiago alcantara, strootman/marchiso and a winger. maybe di maria?
If rooney goes then I fully expect us to go for ronnie or bale!

eds can you tell me if you think rooney will go and if he does do you think he will be replaced with someone of similar class?

Gusbus {Ed004's Note - Yes I do think he will be sold and he will be replaced with a very good signing hopefully}

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23 May 2013 10:02:42
I think he should release a statement saying I'm the manager will you lot on the banter page please stop trying to tell how to do my job, who to buy and where they'd fit on my team. Especially you Shappy!

Ps. Any one know the latest on Strootman?

David Moyes

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I would hope that you know about what's going on with Strootman, David. You are the manager.

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It is not down to moyes to make a statement its down to the glazers but we will wait and hope but I won't be holding my breath

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23 May 2013 14:01:20
But he could just tell me that at my interview to be his assistant manager. Lol.

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23 May 2013 08:30:04
Its amazing the amount of goals over the years that we've conceded have come from Evra being badly out of position!
watching the 2011 final he really was awful as was a few others esp giggs and Valencia!
Really poor tactics didn't help either or in 2009
when imo we were better leading into the final.
LP

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23 May 2013 05:51:20
Just a thought but what about pushing fabio to left wing I think he really deserves a chance at first team had some unlucky loans with imo clueless managers. Because he is right footed he can cut in but also he has a good work rate and will press well high up the pitch. Then sign baines or shaw firthe left back position try to offset his fee by selling evra to monaco for 4 mmillion struggle to get more than that cause he is old but that would keep the spenad on baines down with 4 million coming in. I also think zaha is completely ready for epl his rawness and youth will mean he we look to take on his man a lot more and he always seems to get a cross in if he don't beat his man. Obviously if we sign bale or cr7 fabio should cover left back buttner don't cut it for me wide defensively. Also been thinking about a different formation and wot about 4 1 4 1 the first one being carrick second one being rvp or lewandowski. The four would be lw bale maybe or whoev
er we go for right zaha or valencia and in the middle kagawa and thiago or wwhoever is signed get them to run around and press high and give carrickk less to do defensively. Any thoughts welcome.
Brow red

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Why don't we buy a world class left winger instead of trying to play a fullback on the wing of the biggest club in the world, strange concept I know.
mick the rdd fireman

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Just what we need another player playing out of position!
LP

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23 May 2013 05:25:02
Let's be realistic Rooney on his day is awesome. His day rarely comes, he's certainly fit but not nearly fit enough to be the player he thinks he is. Twice now he has publicly expressed his desire to leave our great club. Thanks for the memories Wayne, time to say goodbye and make room for someone who will love UNITED.
Nickwatto.

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23 May 2013 01:33:42
This site has made me ashamed to call myself a united supporter. The hatred an reactionary stupidity of so many of you really is embarrassing. Rooney carries the club for years, plays wherever he is needed, and then gets turned on by the fans when he doesn't instantly become the best CM in the world. I'll keep a list of your names so that next season when he's playing brilliantly for us, or someone else, u can't lie and claim u were always for keepin him. Bunch of fools, short memory and football manger mentality. Tell me I'm wrong, but include your name to add to the list. -KG

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Add my name to the list KG this man has now twice asked to leave the greatest club in the world, so KG if you should be doubting anyones loyalty it shouldn't be the fans as they are here year in year out without wanting to leave not once but TWICE so its time to let him go. and I really don't think you will be saying told you so, however I have also recorded you name and next year I will be reminding you of your post.

DAVE

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KG stick me on that list.

Rooney has been brilliant but has never got to the levels he should have because he doesn't keep himself in shape. If he got himself in shape and kept himself that way then he would improve again but, he is still on the way down and will never be as good as he was.

He helped us immensely when Ronaldo left but that doesn't excuse his lack of fitness and quality now. I know, why not give him another 5 year contract on £250,000 a week because 4 years ago he was a very good player? Ridiculous. If he goes to france he will look a better player even if he isn't fit as it is a poor league.

Now is the time to leave, he has asked to go twice and no matter how many people try and defend this it is unacceptable and to say otherwise is a joke to be honest.

Brendan81

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Well do one then! We don't need souvenir supporters
Chris the REDman

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What if it was a private conversation between him and saf, he wanted clarity and said he would rather move on if not in the managers thoughts, its a bit differant than a transfer request which hasn't been announced by the club, just saying,
mick the red fireman.

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I've turned on him because he held the club to ransom for more money, and is now trying to do it again. So excuse me while I take exception to him doing that KG, but some of us would like to have players here that respect the club and aren't thinking of their retirement fund.

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Add me to your list, he's been poor all season and obviously doesn't want to be at OT. Thanks for the memories but time to part company.
RedSince68

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Ok let's imagine this is a ploy to get a new contract, he won't want less money so the thing is do we pay him let's say 250-275k a week.

So first off is he worth it? Great player on his day always works hard, but for over a year he can't even control a ball with his first touch, we have seen him drinking, smoking bloating up. Don't get me wrong I'm a right lush and p1ss head but let me assure you for over 200k a week I'd be a lean mean fit fighting machine so its all about perspective

Sod him off out

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I can understand peoples reactions to wanting Rooney out because of his requests and some off the field behaviour. However I do agree with the original poster that wanting Rooney out because he isn't good enough is pathetic, even out of form/shape whatever he is one of the most influential players on the pitch. Do I want him out: nobody is bigger then the club, would I prefer to keep Rooney if he returned to form consistantly - yes. I think the question for Moyes is what is Rooneys desire like to play for the club now and what is his potential of getting back to that form consistantly. I couldn't answer that not being in the middle of it, personally though my opinions are it leads to a sale
Invisible Stuey

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I am not going to insult Rooney or say he is sh1te, because it simply isn't true. However I will say that it is a good time to sell Rooney. He has been a great player for us over the years and carried us for some of them and I am grateful for that, but he is in a decline and he is a disruptive influence in the squad so perhaps now is the best time for him and United to part ways and for him to look for a new challenge.

Sydney!

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Im a new poster. just my opinion on wazzas situation. if we we are to analyse solely on his performance for the last 2 seasons, it does not justify his extreme wages. His fitness and dedication have been questionable. Granted, he had been shoved to the wing and midfield. Mcclair, solksjaer are just some of united players who have played effectively in a few positions. and to add to these is his transfer requests and questioning the clubs ambitions. greater legends like keano, becks and ruud have been sold so I am convinced he should be sold as he has burned too many bridges.
Mancunian dream

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You can add me to the list as well. Moyes will already be under pressure and he doesn't need all these stupid melodrama from Rooney. whether it was formal or verbal, it doesn't matter! he asked to leave the club so he should just leave!

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Sign me up to Bubba. I will also remind you if he is playing somewhere else and they seem like they got the short end of the stick :)

Shahram

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23 May 2013 00:55:13
I'm horrified at how the club has treated Wayne Rooney in recent weeks. When I say the club - I mean everyone. The manager (who seems to be doing all that he can to push Rooney out of the door), the players (who have done nothing to stop the aforementioned from happening) and more than anybody else, the fans.

A week or so ago I posted here suggesting why I thought that Rooney should stay at the club. It got some good responses and all in all it seemed that opinion here was split down the middle. I won't bother re-opening that topic as it's more or less irrelevant to the general theme of this post - but for what it's worth - I stand by everything I said then.

I'm anticipating a barrage of responses questioning whether I'm a 'real fan' as a result of criticizing SAF - so will attempt to tackle that one first. Sir Alex Ferguson is the greatest manager that both our club and football as a sport has and will ever see. Unfortunately that does not change the fact that his handling of certain situations has been poor over the years. Beckham, Van Nistelrooy and Stam are (amongst others) players who left us in their prime as a result of Ferguson being unable to manage them in the right way. All of them should have finished their careers with the club and gone down as legends. The way in which Keane left the club was also a little disappointing in that regard - although that one I can just about understand.

What has Sir Alex done wrong? Publicly announcing that Rooney asked to leave. I've read in a few places that Rooney told the manager that he wanted to play and that if SAF was not willing to play him in the big games then he would have to consider if Manchester United was the right place for him. If that's the case - it seems perfectly reasonable to me. He's always been willing to play out of position for the good of the team - but as a footballer going into the last 2 years of his 'prime' - it's logical that he'll want to be on the pitch for big games.

Of course - that's just what I've read in the press so it could be rubbish and he may have straight up told the boss he wants to leave. We'll never know. Truth be told it doesn't really matter.

By publicly announcing that Rooney wanted to leave; SAF has left Rooney in a position where staying at the club will be very difficult (if not impossible). SAF knew full well that after the previous incident there would be many fans who would not forgive a second transfer request. He said after the Swansea game that he thought Rooney should reconsider and that the club wouldn't let him go (the latter, I suspect, to keep his value from dropping) - but if he really wanted Rooney to stay at the club - he would never have mentioned it publicly.

Now to the 'why'. I suspect that SAF never truly forgave Rooney for the previous transfer request. The club are in a stronger position now (in the sense that Rooney is not as integral to our success as he was back then) and so SAF saw it as a way to get a little revenge. Maybe he or the club's hierarchy wanted to replace Rooney with a new striker and/or cut a little off the wage bill. Maybe SAF suspected that Moyes would not want to work with Rooney as a result of their 'history' and so manufactured a reason for the fans to want Rooney out so that when Moyes sold him the fans were happy rather than annoyed. Any or all seem possible to me. Perhaps it's for the good of the club in the long run - but it seems a little unfair to potentially rob Rooney of his chance to go down as a United legend and even leave the club on good terms (if, which it's seeming increasingly likely, he is to go this summer).

Sir Alex is a great man and an even greater manager - but a great man-manager he is not. The man is ruthless. He's always said that nobody is bigger than the club - but it seems more like what he's saying is that nobody is bigger than him. In a way that's true. He's the boss after all (and the best there has and will ever be) - but creating a culture and environment where players are afraid to question him or raise concerns was and will always be unhealthy.

As for the players - whenever I have been part of a group or team I have always stood up for others when I feel they have or are being treated unfairly. The fact that none of them seem to have supported Rooney disappoints me a little. If I saw a colleague being forced from their job and publicly criticised - I know I wouldn't or couldn't remain tight-lipped. Of course it's possible they have been and are supporting him privately - but knowing that fan feeling towards Rooney is the way it is - I can't help but feel they could and should try and help to change that. If it was one of them they would want their team-mates to do it; but I suspect the aforementioned fear of SAF may be playing a part.

Lastly - the fans. There are some who seem to forget what Rooney has done for this club. Since coming to the club he has consistently been one of our most passionate and hardworking players. Perhaps his performances have dipped a little this season - but he's scored and assisted some very important goals (without which we would not have won the title) and has been NOWHERE NEAR our worst player (Carrick, RVP, DDG and maybe Rafael and Rio are the only ones who it could be argued have been better than him this season). It's clear to see that he loves this club and he has given us nine years of his life as well as contributing towards twelve trophies.

Regardless of whether people think he is 'past it'; the way in which some people are talking about him is disgusting. Not just on this page - but in general. If the club deem him surplus to requirements and choose not to play him in the big games - why wouldn't he want to leave? As much as he loves the club; he wants to play football. If this is the case we should give him our blessing and thank him for everything he's done for the club. Of course we still don't know that he wants to leave - and the fact that 'fans' are willing to condemn him when they know so little about what has actually transpired sickens me.

redseven

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Redseven

I completely agree with everything you say. It's a great post!
I have been posting for the last two -three days saying how some people on here have short memories and forget how Wayne rooney in some seasons carried this club single handedly.
Now he's public enemy number one, past his best, not needed at the club.
I think it's completely wrong and I hope Rooney stays next season and scores 25-30 goals and proves all the doubters wrong who have posted so much crap about him recently.

Simmo

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The other thing which I find absurd is if moyesie wants to keep rooney then saf has made it very difficult for him, maybe he does maybe not but there was absolutely no reason whatsoever to announce a "transfer request", it doesn't help anyone, it certainly devalues him, very strange when saf was leaving anyway, smacks of revenge, guess we will have to wait and see, I can't see what i'm writing thru these adverts.
mick the red fireman.

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Sorry but what is wrong with being ruthless SAF is the greatest manager ever you cannot be soft to stay at the top. It's been bad enough playing Giggs in the centre of midfield.

SAF has had to be ruthless many times and ALWAYS its been what he thinks is best for the club and 99% of the time he's been right

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Redseven

I think you should post a lot more. This is one of the best posts I have ever read on this site. I have been saying this for weeks but boy o boy you have done a wonderful job of articulating it. Short memories and fickle nature have always been a trademark feature for football fans. They would have driven Carrick to a mid-table EPL club at the beginning of the season.

I think Sydney! is spot on when he says, this is nothing but SAF trying to have the last laugh. Bringing it out in the public, leaves Wayne with no other alternative. Even if Moyes wants him to stay, it will not be easy now. SAF being smart, delivered the sucker-punch on an "emotional" day, rendering masses of United supporters to call for Wayne's head. He is the greatest manager to have managed the game but I agree not the best man manager. This was a well thought out thing executed to the TEE. I think Rooney has got to go for his and the clubs long term good. Its just a huge shame, how it has panned out. You always need players that can do the donkeys work and happily play LB when needed. With Wayne gone, don't see a lot of prima donnas doing it.

Deeps.

P. S - Bring on, you are not a United fan if you think SAF is.

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Sir alex was the best man motivater around!
Chris the REDman

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Deeps, this summer was always going to be a big one for Rooney, I have always said as much. I think what SAF has done is for the long-term good of the club. If SAF struggled to keep him in shape, Moyes wouldn't have a chance at gaining his respect. No one is bigger than the club and Rooney would have walked around Carrington and OT like he is the king. Other players would have started taking liberties and the club would be in a mess. I believe SAF was always going to have the last laugh. One way or another I am sure he will.

In footballing terms I do not think Rooney has been the same player since his ankle injury against BM in 2010. He is still a top player hence the PSG interest, but we have certainly seen the best of him. It is a good time to sell, he has two years left on his contract and albeit in decline he still has lots to offer another club. IMO it's the right time to sell to get the biggest possible return for him. SAF will do what is best for the club. I believe this is the correct move at the correct time, but we will see what happens over the coming weeks.

Sydney!

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Best post of the year so far Simmon.

Red Bear

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Thanks to those who gave me props.

Pardoe - Ruthletvess, as a quality, can be useful. It becomes a problem however when said ruthletvess is to the detriment of the club.

In the build up to the UCL against RM Rooney had scored something like 4 in his past 6 appearances (truth be told I can't remember exactly but am positive that it was a very good record). To drop him instead of RVP (who had scored something like 1 in 8 going in to the game) was absurd. To drop him in favour of Welbeck even more so. I really can't see how such a decision could be based on footballing seasons and thus see this as SAF giving Rooney a message.

I'm all for players dropping players when they deserve it - but not when they are probably our best player (from wise) at the time; and certainly not when it is for our biggest game of the season.

Anybody who thinks we were a stronger team for losing Beckham, RVN, Stam, etc obviously has a very different view than I about what constitutes a strong team.

I don't see any way how it was 'best for the club' that we lost these players in their prime - and I fully expect Rooney's name to fit well with the above if he is to be sold.

Ruthletvess is a quality which should be reserved for your enemies rather than your friends. At the very least it should not be detrimental to the club - which SAF's ruthletvess has in the past.

redseven

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God red seven wot a load of garbage! Rooney couldn't give two hoots about us fans, only him and his agent! Its the shirt buyers and can openers that only want him now. I was an avid supporter of his at the beginning of the season, but u can't earn wot he does and then not bother to stay in top shapesimple as that! And then when it all goes wrong for u hand in ANOTHER transfer request! his attitude stinks, his fitness levels and awful and his performances have not been good enough! And u want to keep him and give him more money? Nuts!
Chris the REDman

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Redseven, perhaps you have a short memory or you subconsciously block things out, but Rooney all season has been losing possession in good areas. The majority of breaks broke down due to Rooney giving the ball away and this season he hasn't tried very hard to get the ball back. Welbeck and RvP are better at holding up play and work very hard off the ball (something Rooney used to do). It was of course tactical to drop Rooney, but it also would have put a smile on the manager's face too I'm sure.

Sydney!

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Syd

Agree with bits of your post. Yes this summer was always going to be important for Wayne. Yes the BM injury has cost him a lot. And yes SAF is having the last laugh. I agree may be parting ways is the best thing going forward, but I don't think SAF really had the "whats best for the club" notion in his head when he brought it out in the open. He well and trully wanted to tell Wayne to feck off and nothing else. And how is he a disruptive influence? Despite being the highest earner, I think he gets along supremely well with everyone. He is the prankster amongst the lot and I haven't heard of one attitude issue in the dressing room. If by any chance he stays, don't think he would have a bad effect on the dressing room. After all I am sure the players know the TRUTH, as to what panned out between SAF and Rooney.

Chris

There is a difference between being a "Man Motivator" and a "Man Manager". All said and done SAF is the greatest manager to have managed a football club. But the way he has treated a few players, do you think Becks and Stam are great examples of man management?

Deeps. {Ed004's Note - You speak about pro's like Beckham and Stam yet you just ignore the likes of Ronaldo, Neville, even Beckham etc who speak highly of Ferguson as both a manager but as their mentor. There are obviously going to be times over a 26+ years in management were you are going to find a player you do not like. I reckon if you were talking to a teacher etc they would tell you they haven't like every single one of their pupils over the year. Lindengaard early in the year came out and said the morale in the dressing room is brilliant and he enjoyed coming in for work. Surely having that atmosphere is brilliant in the camp and will reflect positively on the games as everyone works for each other, it only takes one player to make a scene and the dressing room could be divided just like Madrid}

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Chris the REDman

As I said at the beginning of the original post - the post has nothing to do with whether or not he should stay at the club and everything to do with how he had been treated. At no point have I ever said anything about giving him more money. I'm guessing you didn't actually read it.

The fact that you have to resort to insulting people with differing opinions than your own says a lot about you as both a fan and a person. Perhaps your time would be better served reading up on the facts rather than coming up with 'oh so witty' names to call fans you see as inferior to yourself.

At no point has anybody suggested that Rooney has handed in a transfer request - because he hasn't. SAF has said that Rooney asked to leave informally and Rooney has said that he told SAF that he wants to be playing and that if SAF was not going to play him he may have to consider his options. I suspect the latter is the case but concede that it could just as easily be the former.

Rooney's fitness levels have not been great. He clearly has difficulty maintaining his weight - but he's far from being 'fat'. His attitude - as far as I'm concerned - is one of the best at the club. He always gives it his all and is happy to play out of position for the good of the team. One only needs to watch him play to see that playing and winning are incredibly important to him - and the fact that he's had a little strop about being wrongfully dropped for the biggest game of our season (which - need I remind you - we subsequently lost) is both a testament to this and a good thing. If it was really all about the money would he not have been happy to have been given a break while still being paid?

redseven

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Deeps, SAF had to do what he did to get the ball rolling. Nowadays the player has all the power and SAF will know the only way he can get him out of the club is to get fans onside. SAF will be well aware that fractions of the MU support already wanted him out. Rooney would happily keep living his poor lifestyle, whilst pocketing the cash and leave for free in two season's time. How will two more seasons of this season's Rooney help us in any way? Also Moyes job is going to be hard enough as it is, having Rooney around thinking he is the boss is not going to help the new manager or more importantly 'the club'.

Sydney!

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Ed 004, My point here is a little different. We are talking in superlatives, hence I just said SAF is not the greatest man manager to exist. Sure he has had cases like Ronaldo etc, where he has done an exceptional job. But there are also odd ones like Becks where it was a shame. SAF has done an incredible job over the 26 years, single greatest reason for why we are here. But he has always had a vengeful streak. I consider him an absolute legend but a flawed one at that. It does not take away anything from what he has done/achieved. Wasnt it SAF who had a major influence in getting Rooney to tie the knot relatively early. So yes his influence has been massive. But in isolation, I think on this ocassion he has acted out of vengeance more than anything else. You are right not every teacher can love evry student with the same degree, that's human. And I am just saying the same thing, he is like a demi-god to us but has his flaws.

For the last time, Rooney needs to go for the betterment of United and himself.

Deeps. {Ed004's Note - I agree completely in your last statement it would be better for both club and Rooney to leave imo}

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Sir Alex was the best man manager around, he squeezed every ounce out of our team this season to win back the title, he wants the best for our club. Every manager makes the odd mistake here and there but the rooney situation is is not not 1! Rooney wants top dollar and gets it, then doesn't put the work in! i'm sorry if u can except this but I cant!
Chris the REDman

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Deeps, you cannot blame this on SAF's man management of Rooney. Rooney has only himself to blame for not looking after his body and living an unhealthy lifestyle. If Rooney acted professional, none of this would be happening now. What he did to get a payrise in 2010 didn't help either. Rooney is at fault here, no one else my friend.

Sydney!

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Sydney-

You ask how two more seasons of 'this season's Rooney' would help us but seem to forget that when RVP stopped scoring it was Rooney who chipped in and kept us on course for title number 20. I'd go as far as to say that we wouldn't have won the title without him this year. Of course there are players who were more integral - but Rooney was certainly up there with vital goals and assists.

You also assume that we are guaranteed to get 'this seasons Rooney' again next year as though getting back to his best is beyond him. Perhaps it is - but I like to think he can still turn things around. There's also the possibility that we let him go next summer if we're unhappy with his performances.

redseven

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Redseven, Rooney is in decline, that isn't something you can turn around. Physically he hasn't looked great for three seasons now.

Keeping him on for one more season will cost the club 80% of his value. Especially when you factor-in his salary over next season.

Then what's to say he would leave next summer and not just wind his contract down and leave for free a year later? You need to be realistic.

There are plenty of players out there that can replace Rooney's contribution to the squad. RvP has done that alone.

Sydney!

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"Sir Alex is a great man and an even greater manager - but a great man-manager he is not. "

That is some statement since every player that has played for us has always said he is the best in terms of being a decent human being and treating them well. Ronaldo still says he is like a father to him so your argument has no basis and driven by your unquestionable love for Rooney.

Shahram

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Sydney-

I recall not too long ago people were saying that Carrick was not good enough and needed to be replaced. He's since come out and had his best season since 2008. It would have been more than fair to say Carrick's performances were 'declining' post 2008 and yet he has 'turned it around'.

Rooney's situation is similar. He still has it in him - even now - to produce magic (his goal against Norwich and assist against Villa being two instances which instantly spring to mind). If Rooney can lose a bit of weight he will be fine. Despite his weight he still scored more league goals for us last season than RVP did this season and I'd imagine his goals/assists to minutes ratio is better this season than RVP's.

It's clear that he's not performing at the level he was 3 years or so ago but is still a valuable asset and will be more so once he sorts out his fitness.

We would not lose anywhere near 80% of his value. I highly doubt we'd get the £40m being reported for him this summer for starters. £25m-£30m seems more likely. The lowest I could see him going for if we sold him next season would be £18m although I'd imagine we could get as much as £24m. Even if we go to the extremes the most we'd lose would be £12m (bebe+obertan). He's probably our most marketable player in terms of his stature and reputation as well and so the amount he brings in to the club would help to off-set this loss.

There's also the chance that he regains his fitness and gets back to his best. If he does leave the club his new club will demand that he drops some weight, works harder in training and cuts down on the smoking and the boozing. This will improve his performances a hell of a lot. I see no reason why Moyes could not have demanded this of him.

You say that there are plenty of players who could replace him. Who exactly? Rooney is about much more than goals and assists. I doubt you'll find too many players happy to be played out of position week in week out and fewer still who put in as much to a game as Rooney does. His attitude and determination have often been the difference between us winning and losing and his presence alone often spurs others on and galvanizes the team.

I know you're a big fan of Lewandowski - but I don't see him as a Rooney replacement. He'd replace the goals but would struggle to drive the team on like Rooney and would not cope well with being asked to play as midfielder. Add to that the fact that he looks to be moving elsewhere and I'm really struggling to see who (aside from Ronaldo or Messi and maybe Bale, Neymar or Falcao) would really replace what he does and strengthen the team.

redseven

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Shahram -

Every player? I assume you're talking about the players who came out and paid tribute to SAF when he retired. That's by no means 'every player'. Nor did all of those players talk about his man management skills. Most of the testimonials I read/heard said something along the lines of 'He was the best manager ever and I'm proud to have played under him. He'll be missed'.

Do you really expect them to come out and criticize a small element of his management on such an occasion? Of course they wouldn't. Firstly because it doesn't much detract from the fact that he is the best manager of all time, secondly because it was not the time or the place and finally because they would look bad for criticizing the best manager of all time on the eve of his retirement.

In the past many of our former players have spoken of run ins with SAF. SAF himself has certainly admitted to making a mistake in letting Stam go the way he did and I'm pretty sure said something similar re Beckham as well. Numerous former players (Schmeichal and GNev recently) have said that you simply did not cross or question SAF and in a recent interview Scholes said that he thought he was going to be sold or sacked for doing so. Would you have been happy if Scholes had been forced out back in 2001?

That seems like basis enough to me!

I defy you to say with honesty that you think Becks, RVN and Stam leaving when and how they did was good for our club!

I do not deny that I love Rooney for what he has done for our club. He's given a lot and deserves to be treated with some respect. Ironically - I love SAF far more - but unlike you refuse to allow this love to blind me from the fact that the way he is treating Rooney is out of order.

redseven

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Redseven u clearly misinterpreted my post, I am not insulting u directly just stating the only fans that want rooney to stay are the ones who by rooney merchandise and such, but I will be honest with u pal, ure points and views are so off mate, to claim rooney is the victim in all this is bad, the boss knows exactly what is hd for my club and ill take his word over what the others report any day, now rooney going would of beem catastrophic 3 years ago 1 of the reasons why he got his bumper payrise, but since then he hasn't put the work in on his fitness and his form has suffered from that!
Your argument if he gives 100% on the field means nothing to me in terms of if he should stay or not, its the least I expect of any player lucky enough to pull on the shirt, christ rafael has played left back, right wing, center mid and right back for the team over the last 18 months, they are football players playing for the biggest club in the world, its rooneys honour to play for united not the other way round and its fans likr u that seem to forget that!
Chris the REDman {Ed007's Note - To claim that it is only people who buy Rooney merchandise that want him to stay is outrageous, where is your proof to back up such a sweeping statement?}

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Ed ure right, I ment no malice behind the statement and didn't mean any offence by it. i'm wrong and will admit that, I just dnt know why some people feel rooney is the victim in all this.
Once again apologies,
Chris the REDman {Ed007's Note - No need for an apology mate. I wouldn't say Rooney is a victim as such but I do want him to stay. I honestly do think that if he is sold Utd will end up regretting it. In saying that he does need to get his finger out and apply himself a lot better.}

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Redseven, Carrick has never relied on acceleration, explosive speed etc etc. Rooney is average without those factors. Whether he loses weight or not he will not get that spark back. He hasn't had it for three seasons so why will it suddenly appear now?

The club will not let Rooney get to within a year of his contract ending. They would be foolish and quite frankly negligent if they did. I find it odd that you would want him to get within a year of his contract ending. I think you are clutching at straws too.

Sydney!

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Chris the REDman -

As Ed007 said - I think you're a little off when it comes to who wants Rooney to stay. As far as I can see it's down to whether people think he adds to the team or not and whether they think he is past it or can recapture his form of old.

As I said at the beginning of the original post AND my reply to you - my discord isn't down to talk of him being sold (as I concede there are certainly arguments for doing so) - but the manner in which it is being done. He has given a lot to this club and deserves to be treated with respect whether he stays or goes.

I don't pretend to know all of the details and goings on and have formed my own opinion based on what I know to be fact and suspect to be likely. If you choose to believe that SAF has acted the way he has for the greater good - that's fine. We're all entitled to our own opinions. To claim that mine are wrong because they're contrary to your own seems a little douchey though.

redseven

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Chris?

Whats gotten to you man? Its a first for you, in terms of name calling and telling posters as "merchandise driven" or "plastic". If you think I have been backing Rooney because I have a statue of his built right outside my home, sorry mate, you are far off the mark.

Deeps.

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