Manchester United Banter Archive October 23 2012

 

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23 Oct 2012 23:49:46
Quite an interesting match isnt it? Story of this season so far: you score first and we outscore you. But the defensive issues are guetting really disturbing and tactics are still looking unlogical. So here is what i was able to draw from the match :

1- Carrick is a bad central defender. there are certain midfielders who are able to do a decent cb job. they are generally strong in the tackle, physically imposing and are good readers of the game. Carrick offers only one of those characteristics. its not his fault he is a bad cb. the blame is 100% on ferguson.

2- buttner didnt have a good game, but what were you expecting? this is his 3rd start for us, and he was dropped after each of his previous performances. How is he supposed to improve? Plus tbh he didnt have much help from the midfield. i think he should start against chelsea cause i would hate to see the damage hazard would cause evra.

3- Fletcher had a good game and his passing was top drawer He shielded the back 4 well and was helping out Carrick most of the game.

4- Let's talk about tactics shall we?
When a team plays with no wingers, the defensive midfielder is generally the one supposed to help out the fullbacks, while the other midfielders race to get back in front of the back 4.
But considering that Our central defense was too weak with carrick in it, fletcher never went out wide to help out the fbs, and left the job to cleverley and kagawa, to a disastrous effect.
Cleverley really disappointed me tonight, his workrate wasnt what i was used to and he was playing in an advanced position where he looked lost and not good enough, while kagawa was playing in a deeper role and struggld also.

Now that's what i wasnt able to understand. Why is Cleverley playing further up the pitch than Kagawa? they both looked lost in unfamiliar roles. Cleverley should just concentrate on bossing the midfield area and dominating possession, and that wasnt what he was doing tonight. When he got back to the middle of the pitch in the 2nd half Fletcher looked much better and so did cleverley, and we started controling the game.

So the answer is very easy, Cleverley drops back while kagawa moves further up the pitch while dropping the diamond formation.

Last year when city were dominating every single game they were playing toure and barry as central midfielders, nasri and silva as attacking midfielders, with aguero and baltelli/tevez/dzeko as the striking pairing. it was a 4-2-2-2 formation, and it allowed them to play to their strengths and dominate poseession.
there is no reason for us not to play that formation, and it allows fluidity and interchangeability while also offfering defensive stability, and the width would come from the full backs and/or the attacking midfielders.
-----------------------de Gea-------------------
Rafael---Smalling/Jones---Evans/Vidic---Buttner
-------------cleverley-------fletcher--------------
-----Kagawa-------------------------Rooney--------
--------------Van persie-----welbeck/ chicha----

now in this formation, Fletcher is purely a defensive midfielder while cleverley is more of a central playmaker, a la xavi, who is supposed to control the tempo of the game and time his attacking runs.
the interchangeability in our front 4 would be impossible for any team to handle, while cleverley and fletcher would be helping the hopefully stable defense.

4- Anderson : In the first half it was clear that we werent creating enough chances and we needed a midfielder who can carry the ball forward. Why anderosn wasnt brought in, i have no idea. But i can only suspect that anderson is on a strict weight loss regime, that's why he cant complete matches. ( When someone is on a diet, his concentration levels drop and considering anderson already has very weak concentration levels, i think he shouldnt be playing games until fully fit ) Now that's just my opinion.

5- Chicharito: he would have easiely scored 4 or 5 goals today. He poses a goal threat Welbeck does not possess. he also seems to have massivley improved his ball control and his passing, and if given enough chances, he will score a lot of goals. So as long as the team keeps playing well and creating chances, chicha can get a decent number of goals. ( i think it was Ed 001 that once said on the liverpool page that chicha is quality but he is only struggling because our midfield is too weak and dont create enough chances to him to burry, i cant agree more )

6- Our matches these days are causing me heart problems. Why do we always have to come from behind i have no idea.

Mick

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I don't know why people were expecting SAF to play Wooten in place of Carrick. Imagine playing a backline of Rafael, Wooten, Evans and Buttner in front of De Gea? It would have been disastrous. We definitely needed an experienced head at the back there.
EK.

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Agree and disagree. I thought Cleverley had a good game. Tactics were rubbish playing people out of position never helps and totally unnecessary, but Ferguson has been doing that. Fletcher ran or jogged around but achieved very little. He's not the answer. Kagawa playing wide is not a good idea, his strength is his vision and passing, so if Ferguson wants to get most out of him then he must play in middle behind the strikers. Ddg I'm his biggest supporter but tonight he's put a lot of doubt in my head!
Lastly, tactics, until Ferguson stops playing people out of position and until we start showing more faith in our youngsters, then we will be going backwards as a club.
NoMidfield

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EK... are you kidding. The only difference being Carrick for Wooten. Who's the better center half? End of. Utterly ridiculous statement.

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Gentlemen you are overestimating Wotoon by a mile. In the NC game we looked terrible defending against crosses with Wotoon. SAF is not blind and I know everyone here is playing manager but selecting Carrick over Wotton has its reasons.

I guess this whole thing will be put to bed if Wotoon actually starts in one of these games and we look even worse.

Maybe then it will dawn on everyone that give the personnel currently available this is the best option available and how much we need vidic,smalling back and maybe a January buy if vidic's injury looks more of a longer term problem.

Shahram

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SHAHRAM
excellent point, its the same every time we dont play well.
jred

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Jred, I just don't believe for one minute that everyone at the club(saf and the coaching staff) are dumb and blind and would not pick Wotoon over Carrick if he was a better choice.

My main issue is that we need not 1 but 2 major signing for our midfield and very frustrated seeing every transfer window come and go and we don't buy what is required.

I really think, although the manager will not admit to it that he also thought some of these young players will be coming through the system. However maybe now realizes they are just not good enough and maybe developing slower as he thought.

Unlike most people rumors about Falcao or Lewandowski do nothing for me and I hope to god we don't buy another winger or striker and actually sell some players.

We are scoring more goals against average teams and getting away with it but against Everton and Spurs, which were better opposition we just could not muster getting back.


I love the club and hope we fix midfield and with our strikers we will break other teams spirit.

Shahram

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23 Oct 2012 23:39:42
Here's a thought for the people who thought I was mad saying we could beat Barca, Celtic went to the nou camp and led and lost 2-1 but defended amazing they threw everything at Barca everyone predicted a hammering, the Barca of 3 years ago would have put 5 or 6 past them but they were given a scare and we are a much better side than Celtic.

Caolán.

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Yeah your a better team than celtic, you probably thought that the night nakamura sent you packing.. come up to parkhead son and we will see who's best

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Did Celtic come to united a few years back when we had arguably our best starting 11 since the 90s an wa was the score ? It is hard for any team to break down 10 men in the box it's plain an simple they have better players in every position full stop , stop being bias I hate that trate in people , you actually think with the current team we have we could beat arguably the best team to ever grace the footballing world ? , we wouldn't touch the ball for 90 mins !!

Dio

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Barca always have dodgy results and performances in the group stages,we have been dominated in midfield byalmost every team we have played this season including the games we have won,grant u we have very good strikers who can score anytime,but tgey wouldnt get a kick v barca as our midfield would be overrun and outclassed,as bilbao proved last season,celtic wouldve probably caused us alot more trouble last night than they did barca,like i say i believe you to be a very young boy and very naive,which isnt a bad thing but does get tedious.
Mick the red fireman

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No name I'm also a Celtic fan too go to a few games a year, your team isn't as good as when it had makamura I'm sure we would win at park head too.

Caolán.

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23 Oct 2012 23:28:11
Well I think I must off watched a different game than most on here tonight.
Over all I think we played well, apart from the first 20 even our defence played well, always calm and in control.
Midfield were good and up front was great especially chico's movement and his overall play, he gave everything all over the pitch.
Braga are a decent team especially away from home but they were completely outplayed and dominated in the 2nd half.

I would even go so far as to say that nani had a good game well at least in the 1st half anyway ;-)

Karllap

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23 Oct 2012 22:58:14
Before anybody jumps on the bandwagon and says that the diamond is useless and we shouldn't use it after tonight's performance... I still think it is a great idea and we should again use it on sunday away at Chelsea. I only think it will be good away from home when we need to press in midfield and outnumber the opposition. For home we should use either the 4-4-2 or 4-2-3-1 when we still have pleanty of attack and width but have a shield for at the minute a very weak defence. Not the best choice by Sir Alex tonight but we got away with it so lets move on and we are one win away from qualification to the knockout stages.

RedKnight

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There was nothing wrong with our formation, it was starting the game at a low tempo that cost us the early goals, that and poor defending.

Sydney!

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We changed the formation in the second half and looked a better team

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23 Oct 2012 22:51:03
So...Buttner is not necessarily the answer eh Syd, neither is Ceverley on this form; very keen and energetic but little end product. The forwards continue to dig us out of a hole but defensive deficiencies apart, we are too often pedestrian and one paced; too many changes, too much confusion about systems, too many players chopped and changed. Some,thoughts from tonight:

1. Carrick is not and will never be a centre half.

2. Kagawa still flatters to deceive.

3. SAF appears to be making this up a he goes along.

4. Left back remains an area of weakness.

5. The sooner Jones and Smalling are back the better.

6. we have a variety of attacking options that excite and have the potential to score hatfuls.

7. We cannot keep giving away goals - eventually we will get found out.

AJH

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I thought Cleverley had a decent game, especially when Nani came on and he had someone to link up with. He needs to play with people on his wavelength such as Nani and Welbeck etc though. Fantastic cross for the 3rd goal.

TK-Red

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Little end product?? Did you watch the match? He assisted the winner with a cross a certain beckham would have been proud of.

Presume you are one of the same people saying give the young lads a chance. We do and you slate them.

GDS

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GDS, I didn't slate Cleverley, I hope he develops into a great player. I just think some fans drool over him when there is little to drool about. He has huge potential and a great work wthic but I can't see why people are raving about him just yet. As for the young players, we should have played one at CB instead of Carrick, and yes, I am as frustrated as everyone else at SAF's perceived lack of trust in the youngsters.

AJH

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AJH, how long has it taken Rafael to sort his sh1t out. It has taken a long time and more importantly a run of games. This is what Buttner needs. Cleverley had a good game, made one error and he quickly redeemed himself. There was nothing wrong with the formation or the players involved last night, the problem was starting at a low tempo and not dealing with crosses.

Sydney!

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23 Oct 2012 22:45:35
A couple of things from tonights game. It happened against Spurs and then Tonight. The diamond is not how we play we need wingers to deliver the ball into our attackers. Where are all the people who were saying we should sell chicho very quiet tonight. I AM KLOOT {Ed004's Note - Unfair to bring that up Kloot. It is not some people's fault they can not make it to games...}

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We can't play wingers until we buy two proper midfielders

Shahram

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Kloot, we didn't play a diamond formation at Spurs and that's why we lost.

Sydney!

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23 Oct 2012 22:43:18
someone explain why we subbed hernandez for giggs and is kagawa injured and is it serious.

Shahram

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Kagawa has a twisted knee apparently. They will know more when he goes for a scan in the morning.

TK-Red

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23 Oct 2012 22:37:56
I'm still wondering why Kagawa was at LM. That assist clearly told me that he needs to be deeper in the attacking mid role. Chica would be scoring way more goals if Kagawa was there.

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Because rooney likes to play in the hole and nowhere else to play kagawa.

Shahram

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I think Kagawas is better in the hole than Rooney.

Rooster

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That would mean rooney sitting on the bench, because RVP and welback and hernandes games are more suited to play in an advanced striker role.

Shahram

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23 Oct 2012 21:45:50
Chicha was excellent tonight, showed good link up play and the Time he was on the touchline he made a great run. One more thing Johnny Evans goal machine :)

Caolán.

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Celtic nearly beat Barca too... You could almost say they were in the game! ;)

Hernandez was outstanding tonight-wish Fergs had left him on and taken RVP off, just to encourage him that if you play that well you can push past these great strikers we have.

Biggest positive for me was his energy and enthusiasm, he was closing down, battling, great link up play, still so young... He'll be a fantastic player, can't believe some want to sell him!

DodgyBanter

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I know if he stays fit an era a good run he garuntee's goals 20 a season easy.

Caolán.

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23 Oct 2012 21:38:14
I thought Kagawa, RVP, Nani, Cleverley and Rooney looked poor today.... Im glad Fletcher had 90 minutes and to be honest I would probably pick him in midfield against Chelsea. We should play a central 4231 and have Fletcher and Carrick behind Rooney, Kagawa and cleverley behind RVP.

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So, you basically found all our offensive players poor but none of our defensive players? Have a word mate...

CnM

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Fletcher is not match fit or has lost some pace and not good enough of a passer or distributor. Cleverly, Carrick for me this weekend.

Shahram

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Cleverly anderson for me this weekend. lets be daring. these two will run all day and close down mata etc who will look to pass the ball quickly and intricately around the box.

Park 3 Lung {Ed004's Note - Leaves us too open. I think maybe Cleverley, Anderson and Fletcher with Valencia and Rooney out wide with RVP up top}

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I thought Rooney was one of our most composed and influential players.

Supasub

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I want Anderson in there myself.

Supasub

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I'd go with Cleverley Carrick and Anderson this weekend with RVP, Rooney and Welbeck upfront in a 433. It gives us cover in midfield with pace up front. Also seeing as its Chelsea Welbeck just gets the nod ahead of the impressive Hernandez for his work rate and his ability to hold up the ball.

Shappy

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Ed004 then Carrick to sit in front of back four, Cleverly, Anderson, Valencia,rooney, Rvp. 4132 which means 41311 as rooney likes to drop back and play in the hole

watching the chelsea game, shaktar giving them a good mauling

Shahram {Ed004's Note - That could work I just think Fletcher is better at tackling and chasing players and putting pressure on the Chelsea players}

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23 Oct 2012 21:26:13
CHICARITO :D

He needs to start more

James

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23 Oct 2012 21:20:40
Please someone explain to me why Nani was picked to come on ahead of Valencia or Young when he has been shocking every game this season

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Resting Valencia for Chelsea?

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Too see if he can score a crucial goal, Nani played fairly good when he first came on but became quiet near the end. I don't think he will be at United for much longer unfortunately!

-JakeW

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23 Oct 2012 21:11:32
Buttner really is a very limited footballer. Come back Patrice Evra, all is forgiven, at least you can cross the ball.

Paulo

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Buttner should have done better with those two goals, but Alan was a big threat and at least he stayed with him, Ev would have been somewhere near the halfway line ;)

The Dutchman needs games now so he can get into the swing of things. I like what I have seen of him so far, mistakes early on were inevitable, but I think he could be a decent player in the end and should have got a pen. Even if he ends up a back-up to another LB he will be a good back-up.

Sydney!

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He is not great at defending and we will leak goals with him. Much more of a wingback than a rock at lb. Need to buy in the summer.

Shahram

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To me he looks better than evra going forward. Good of people to judge him after two starts, what is wrong with some people? He needs to play at least 15-20 games at the top level before we can start to make a judgment surely?

Remember the lad scored on his debut and was fantastic. One game where he isn't quite as good and we slag him off. Both goals came from the other side of the pitch from what I could see?

GDS

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Sydney!

I may be wrong as I didn't see the slow-mo replay, but I think he just lost his balance and fell - unless there was another shout I missed. I was in work so was only catching bits and pieces.

StevieK

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You've seen him play twice. How can you know if he's up to it or not? Evra was dreadful in his first few games but he came good.

Da Rob Man

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We never play with solid full backs. Its a big step for Buttner to take from midtable dutch team to league challenging english team. He needs time, i remember Evra's horror debut against City. Buttner has alot to learn but has all the attributes needed.

In the summer i'd like to see a CB come in who can cover LB when needed, then we'd have a solid option and an attacking option for LB. It's a shame we missed out on Vertonghen. Personally i think Ogbonna should be top of the list now.

Shappy

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It is not one game it is general stuff when you look at a player and what does he have in his locker.

Time will tell, but IMO no no no way he is a starting left back for United. The players you mentioned no matter how bad a game they had early on, you could see they had the thing.

It was a very late buy as cover until a permanent solution is in place. I believe whatever player we were working on did not materialize and we bought a squad player that will get 20 games a year.

Shahram

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23 Oct 2012 21:18:34
Chicharito looks to have upped all parts of his game tonight

Pardoe

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23 Oct 2012 21:15:20
Hernandez has been excellent tonight

DodgyBanter

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23 Oct 2012 21:07:52
This is mental the linesman is blind ..... An onside goal given offside and a 1on1 witht he goalie that was onside given off.....

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23 Oct 2012 21:06:56
wtf is this linesman on!!

James

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23 Oct 2012 21:03:56
Yay were still in it!

19-20 MUFC

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23 Oct 2012 20:44:12
With the current trend of referring to players by their initials - i.e. RVP - AVB - shouldnt we do the same for Carlos Umberto Nuno Tevez?........

Rouge Diablo :)

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Lol

19-20 MUFC

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I see what you did there.. ;)

-JakeW

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I think you will find his second name is Alberto

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23 Oct 2012 20:42:18
well everyone seems to be shouting for wooten and then the "experts" on tv seem to think we are missing a bit of experience back there.
carrick seems to be getting a bit of stick but i think buttner should of done better on both goals as well
jred

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Buttner plays on the left carrick got skin on the right

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Buttner c/p left his man who run on to the pass and scored, very basic defending
jred

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23 Oct 2012 20:24:54
Am I the only one who thinks Kagawa has been shocking? He should be standing out as he was rested at the weekend although we did have a legal goal disallowed .

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You are the only watching Utd vs Stoke right now.

Nick86

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Nick....What are you on about Stoke for?

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I agree to an extent nick he hasnt set the world on fire and havent really offered much at all so far this season

dio

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23 Oct 2012 20:20:56
I'm a regular reader but rare poster..

But I am so fustrated with SAF (don't get me wrong the guy is a legend)!

I see so many questions as listed below about current affairs but nothing seems to be done.

1. Why haven't we bought a defensive midfielder or strong midfielder. The back four are always exposed. Why didn't we move for Demembele?

2. Why try to play people out of position? I see Carrick, kagawa, Rooney all not in their natural position. Add welbeck to that when he's on the left.

3. De Gea is not cut out for the EPL everyone can see this. Why didn't we sign Lloris last year? Could he be sent back to ESP and bring Butland in?

4. Why are we tactically embarrassed everytime we play a technical team? We
rely on players making it happen rather than tactical nouse.

5. What is the remit of Mike Phelan? Carlos q used to do tactics and defensive coaching something we lack now.

6. Why aren't we blooding youngster or giving games to squad players? Anderson has good game then sits out 3 games and everyone says he dosent look sharp? No centre backs but Carrick plays but wooton sits it out (wouldn't Carrick be better sheilding the backline with Fletch?)

I am slightly ashamed to say but I can't wait for ferguson to retire and the backroom staff to be freshend up. Regardless of tonight's result i rarely enjoy watching us anymore.

Ferguson seems reluctant to move with the times in terms of man management, tactics and backroom staff.

Alex

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23 Oct 2012 20:18:39
What a poor performance so far tonight. Poor Carrick is lost in defence and it's not his fault, it's a selection problem. Yet again we go behind to a team that's not really one that should trouble us. I feel sorry for De Gea and for RVP, they deserve better.
Paulo

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23 Oct 2012 20:13:03
..........................

no words can describe how pissed i am. wtf if carrick doing in defence!!

James

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23 Oct 2012 20:10:20
Deja vu! Chelsea will give us something to think on the weekend. I'm not sure if we're playing Braga or Bar(ga)! We can't go any lower than this. ****!

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23 Oct 2012 20:09:01
Winning on sunday would be the best birthday present ever :)

19-20 MUFC

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Don't get your hopes up mate. After our recent performances I can't see us even making the top two.

-JakeW

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23 Oct 2012 20:08:12
Typical Fergie play Carrick out of position and he got abused. Wooten should be Playing but no he would rather have an experienced player play out of position, joke

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23 Oct 2012 20:07:56
Where the hell is our team? 2-0 down. Extremely annoyed.

-JakeW

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23 Oct 2012 20:06:27
2-0 down things are looking bad :(

19-20 MUFC

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23 Oct 2012 19:52:50
NO clean sheet today! Mistakes from the two CB's and Buttner.
FT: Man Utd 4-1 Braga!!!

Nick86

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I guess Manu Utd amazingly proved me wrong! This United team would struggle even against Castilla, it would be a very close game.

Nick86

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23 Oct 2012 19:24:24
I wanted Wooton to start. Guy earns it.

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23 Oct 2012 19:14:45
Liking the team for tonight except carrick in defence.

But have a bad feeling about the fact giggs isnt playing :(

James

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You wanted giggs to play? For what reason exactly??

GDS

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23 Oct 2012 19:14:20
Carrick centerback again.

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23 Oct 2012 19:10:08
I AM KLOOT - are you sure your not a crying scouser in disguise because all you do is moan like them, am surprised you havent started saying the worlds against us and its the refs fault when we dont win. The difference with us and chelsea,city is when there owners leave them they are in for it were we wont be................ If you are going to have a go at me at least have the balls to leave a name. or shall I just refer to you as the Glazers bitch. I AM KLOOT

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23 Oct 2012 19:06:42
so i see no wooton or any other CB alongside evans, instead we play carrick, it wont be long till young players just dont see us as a club to fulfil there potential due to them not going to get any games. although i am forever indebted to fergie for wot he has given our great club im just worried that his short sightedness will end up costing our great club of the next ronaldo or messi, i.e pogba.
Chris the REDman

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Or we could win tonight and make sure we qualify and then use dead rubber games like Cluj at home to play kids?

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Or we could play carrick and leak 2 sloppy goals? Chris the REDman

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23 Oct 2012 18:58:36
Official ManU starting line-up against Braga:
De gea, Rafael, evans, carrick, buttner, fletcher, cleverely, kagawa, rooney, hernandez, RVP.

No Wooten in defense then.

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I believe Braga will sit and we need movement to break them down! So Hernandez is a good choice

Caolán.

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Why play Carrick there? Wooten would be a better option. Pathetic choice from Fergie.

-JakeW

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I'd rather try and win this game tonight so we can use the other games for rotation. Like Cluj at home for example play the kids then. If we have the bottle for that.

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23 Oct 2012 18:58:03
So Rooney, RVP, Hernandez and Kagawa are starting plus Carrick at centre back... talk about an attacking team!!

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23 Oct 2012 18:56:21
If your bored at halftime and cannot stand the inane punditry of itv i suggest popping over to the republikofmancunia website and looking for the Duncan Edwards article related to Sam Pilger's book on United's Greatest Ever 11.

Or order the book, its going for a great price on Amazon.

Mort

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Superb piece and at 2.99 cheap as chips

Pardoe

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Can only find it for kindle on amazon ?
johndenton

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23 Oct 2012 17:56:47
i am reading reports claming that david de gea is moving back to spain to real madrid.
reports suggest that he is homesick and demoralized that he still cant secure the starting XI.
EDS,bros,please clear this out.I am a huge fan of DDG and cant see him go to madrid.he is extremely talented and have years ahead of him as he is just 21.
i am sure he is the best at this position considering his age and he will surely turn out to a world class stopper.
help me out bro.

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If Madrid offer 20 million or above i'd take it

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I think we could get 30m+ considering his age and how much he has improved in a year.... To be honest selling him wouldnt be such a big shame imo and I think Courtois could be bought from Chelsea for alot less at this point and is probably a better keeper in our league due to his aerial ability aswell as shot stopping....

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I doubt Chelsea would sell us a bag of Terry's used jockstraps. Why would you sell a top youth player, considered by many as one of the best in the world in his position in his age bracket, to a rival? You never strengthen a rival which is why Arsenal tried to flog RvP to anyone but us.

I'd certainly sell De Gea for the right price. 20-30 million would be greta. He's a fantastic shot stopper but concerns do linger around the physical side of his game.

Who would be the replacement though? Would have to be Adler this time i feel.

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23 Oct 2012 17:17:38
I see we have had the catastrophic news confirmed today that the Glazers are not going to sell their Golden Goose for some time. Instead they will keep taking more and more money out. Anyone who thinks this is not a bad thing, look at the players that City and Chelsea are bringing in. They are only going to get stronger whilst our squad gets weaker and weaker. Could we ever afford to buy Ronaldo back never we would be blown out of the water. I am sure Sydney and GDS will come on here and say it is not a bad thing and we have spent net this or net that what they will never say is how much money has left this club to pay someone elses debts that could have been spent on world class players. Do you think that the Glazers will spend more on players in the future no way. It is basic Glazernomics you take as much from the club as you can and when you have bled it dry you sell it onto someone else to refinance. Another dark day with many darker ahead. Those of you who want to slag off City take a look at how much their owner has put of his own money into the club and the local community. Look at what they are doing for supporters regarding facilities. That's not buying success that's investing in a club and it's community not just bleeding it dry. I AM KLOOT

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I AM KLOOT - are you sure your not a crying scouser in disguise because all you do is moan like them, am surprised you havent started saying the worlds against us and its the refs fault when we dont win. The difference with us and chelsea,city is when there owners leave them they are in for it were we wont be.

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Their only spending that much on the local area because they can't keep shelling out on buying up every spare ticket they have so they can record a sell out even when the tv camera's show a half full stadium, they are just trying to buy fans allegiances.

I totally agree with you on the Glazers but its hardly a shock that they are not planning on selling is it?

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So you would prefer us to spend 500 million in the next 3 years with a billionaire owner? Just wondering. Don't really see any point in commenting on the 'news' today as it ass nothing we didn't already know.

GDS

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To be honest I can see one or two of the Glazers selling there shares in the club within a few years... Once we are debt free we will have a much better perspective of what they want to do with us.

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Once again I find myself surprisingly agreeing with KLOOT they are vermin leeching off our club.

Devil Dust.

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It was hard looking at the paucity of our team tonight that just scraped past Braga looking nowhere near champions of anywhere with weakness in defence and midfield and believe that SAF has been given the money he needs. SAF built his teams on young hungry players with the centre of defence and midfield vital. I watch Giggs come on and the pace of our game drop and wonder where the money is truly going , why SAF isn't strengthening the areas that desperately need it. Thank goodness we can score

More Glazer years will bring decline if they continue to fail to invest

Red Man

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I'm sorry but the manager has had £130m (net) to spend since the summer of 2010. If he hasn't spent it wisely enough then how is that a fault of the owners? I do not like the amount of money that has gone out of the club unnecessarily, but there has been plenty of cash to sort out the midfield. I cannot see how the CB position can be blamed on the manager with our injuries, but he still hasn't replaced Ev two years after his decline. We have been saying for a long time that we need a midfielder and a LB, still we wait for one, but the cash has been there evidently.

Sydney!

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23 Oct 2012 16:55:26
Has anyone seen the new Brazilian kid Bruno Gomes play?

is he training with the youth team?

Is he as good as some press reports says?

Shahram

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23 Oct 2012 16:11:32
"I know your all going to say forget about him he's gone, but has anyone seen Paul Pogba's goal against Napoli, this boy is class and should have been given games last year, especially against Blackburn when he was only a sub and Rafael was played in midfield!"Forget about him, he's gone

Only kidding, I agree. I always thought there was more to the Pogba situation than what we knew but now I'm not so sure.
I see it happening more and more where the young kids are just not geting a chance.

I would understand if our team was so dominant and absolutely brilliant in every position but we're not. We need change, we need to see other options.
When you see Giggs (who I love by the way but his time has gone), scholes (another nice to have but we shouldn't be relying on him), Carrick, Ferdinand, Nani, Evra etc etc getting picked or in the squad week in and and week out surely it wouldn't be to much of a risk to have a few kids in the squad so that if by chance we are in a good winning position they could get some game time.

When we were seeing Gibson being picked before the likes of Pogba and Morrison it was embarresing. Scousers coming on telling us how good their kids are, us arguing back that ours are better yet they can't get a sniff with players like that in front of them makes us look a laughing stock!

Karllap

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Karllap - You say the Liverpool youngsters are getting a shot and ours are not... well have you ever thought that may be because we have a lot more quality in our squad.... How can any young forawrd get ahead of our first teamers or wingers get picked? The only position is centre midfield and Powell, Tunners and Co are clearly not ready fro the big time yet but I agree with aspects like they should be bought on for the last 20 minutes against the likes of Wigan etc.

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Barca had Fabrigas.... He had no chance if getting a game and so moved to Arsenal. He knuckled down and played lots if games , then Barca came back in.

Get over it, this happens! Players can either be patient and force a way in (Danny Welbeck) or they can leave in search of first team football at a lower level (Gibson/Pogba etc..) and you can never prove which is the best option.

DodgyBanter

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I understand what your saying but there has to be a point were you take a chance and let the kids fulfil there potential.

As an example where the kids that took over from ince, Hughes, kanchelskis, stam, pallester, Bruce, etc etc.
At the time they weren't but fergy seen that their time was coming to an end so blooded the kids, gave them a bit of experience then trusted them to fulfil their potential and take over.

The kids now don't even get that bit of experience never my trusted to take over!

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23 Oct 2012 16:10:24
Just a heads up lads to brace yourself for a lot of posts on the Glazers after Ed Woodward's comments today :/

Ports {Ed002's Note - We have done it already - you missed it.}

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Haha, sorry 002, should of scrolled down, realised after!

You best get your tin hats on for ready for the barrage :)

Ports

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23 Oct 2012 15:37:13
All this talk of De Gea being homesick is rubbish IMO for me he is the best young keeper in the world but my mate reckons Courtois of Athletico/Chelsea is the best other contenders could be Ter Stegen or Sergio Asenjo ED001 as you watch a lot of footbal who do you rate the best?

MANRED {Ed001's Note - Courtois, unfortunately, has been the best I have seen recently. I think he is better suited to the English game than De Gea, who suffers a bit when he comes off his line. De Gea is a fantastic shot stopper, but he needs to man up and bully his way through crowds of players to clear crosses. Courtois can handle that side of the game better, at least in the Spanish league he can anyway. De Gea always struggled with that even in Spain, but he is young and can learn. Ter Stegen and Asenjo are very close, there isn't much between the 4 of them really.}

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Coutois for me and i posted this a while ago. I think he is going to be one heck of keeper.

Shahram {Ed002's Note - Courtois' future is pretty well mapped out right now.}

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We should do what we should have a year ago and get Adler.

Jono

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Can you elaborate ED002 - is he headed somewhere?

Cheers
DodgyBanter {Ed004's Note - He is the successor to Cech}

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23 Oct 2012 16:04:19
Vidic is not an injury prone player, having ligament surgery and follow up surgery isn't exactly a Michael Owen is it.

Hoppy

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No but the chances of a being an Owen increase with every break down. What are the odds he's injured over Christmas?

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23 Oct 2012 14:58:53
Real GEAr up...

Jose Mourinho have a strong relationship with De Gea's agent Jorge Mendes and feels they can exploit that to tempt De Gea back to Spain in the foreseeable future.
Casillas has already stated that he sees De Gea as his successor in Spain's national team and feels he can bring him on by working with the keeper at the Bernabeu.

DeLaRusso

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23 Oct 2012 14:58:19
Hey guys I get that you want to give youth a chance tonight but how about we guarantee progression to the knockout rounds first? Braga are not as weak as some people on here seem to think my thoughts are play your strongest side get the win then rest players for the weekend. Play Rooney, RVP, and Kagawa then at the 60 minute mark if we are winning comfortably take them off. Having them on the bench then asking them to come on and save the game for us would probably see them use more energy pushing and trying to break down a stubborn team. Play the younger players once we are guaranteed to go through then they will have less expectations and be able to express themselves more freely.

Darren-Bermuda

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If we were playing Norwich at the weekend I would agree, but we aren't. Chelsea is a must win game for us, for so many more reasons other than just 3 more points on the board! Braga won't be a push over by any means, but nor will they cause us massive problems. Start the game with a mix of the young guns and some of our good talent (Kagawa, Young and Hernandez for example), and if we still haven't made an impact by the 50/60 minute mark...then bring on the big guns like Rooney and RVP. It's simply not worth risking more injuries, we need our strongest team possible for the two upcoming games against Chelsea. Risking that against a manageable team like Braga is simply not worth it!

Andy!

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Set out to win the game comfortably then take off the big players.



Mad Hatter

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23 Oct 2012 14:56:28
So the Vice-Chairman Ed Woodward has said The Glazer's are not going to sell any time soon which was pretty obvious as we all know they are waiting to clear the debt so they can bleed even more money out of the club. {Ed002's Note - Actually that is not the reason.}

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Ok Ed002, I'll bite: what is the reason Ed Woodard said that the Glazer's are not going to sell anytime soon?

Thanks,

J Bones. {Ed002's Note - Read the post and my reply - I did not say that he said anything as to the reason. I was just calling in the disgruntled so called "supporter" who was providing misinformation.}

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Yeah, but if you take the 'd's out of his name he becomes Ewar Woowar. Which is quite amusing.

Nizza

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23 Oct 2012 13:09:19
Thoughts on tonights team anyone?

Tough to see what SAF is going to do with Chelsea at the weekend - win this and we are more or less through.

Taking into consideration that rio and rvra have been ruled out could we see the following

---------DDG---------
----Raf---Evans--Buttner
-----Fletcher-Cleverly---
Nani------Kagawa-----Young
-----Welbeck ----Chico

I'm not sure if we'll go for the three at the back - maybe change Cleverley for Wooton?
I would be surprised if rooney and RVP started - leave them on the bench if we need them introduce them later in the game but think chico and Welbeck should have enough for Braga.

Going for a comfortable 3-0 win - kagawa to got MOM.

Giants14

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Well you have massively underestimated braga, a team with one defeat in their last 8 European away games. That team with 3 at the back would lose tonight it would definitely not win 3-0.

Surely we have learnt from last season we cannot afford to lose games like today. We have a full 5 days until the Chelsea game and they have a tough away game tonight so why rest anybody other than rio who can never play that often as evra who was terrible anyway?

One of Rooney or van Persie, if not both will start tonight, I am hoping anyway.

GDS

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Only 1 center back in a back 3? With four fairly attack minded players on the flanks? Can't see it myself! He'll give one of the young kids a go at CB (probably Wooton) I agree that Evans, Buttner and Rafael will start, as will Kagawa, Young and Fletcher. After that I'm not too sure! I think we might see this...

-----------De Gea---------
Rafael-Wooton-Evans-Buttner
------Fletcher-Cleverley----
--Nani-----Kagawa----Young
----------Hernandez--------

Although I'm not quite sure if Hernandez will start, possibly Welbeck instead!

Andy!

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I'm not a big fan of the three at the back myself - i went for this as i believe fergie likes experience in the Champions League and therefore cant see wooton starting - maybe he'll put Carrick back there - i would prefer Wooton to start as he has done well so far this season.
With Fletcher and Cleverley in the middle it would give us the defensive unit although buttner and Raf will actually have to defend lol

I think id be happy with Andy's team actually :)

Giants14

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-----------De Gea---------
-Rafa--Woots-Evans-Butts-
-Nani-----Giggs-----Clevs-
------Roon-----Kags--------
---------Hernandez--------

Sparty On

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I'm not sure whether the Chelsea game comes under much consideration. SAF has said that he will rest Rio and Evra but we are at home and Chelsea have a long trip to Donetsk. I think that we can, and should, be looking to play one of Rooney or RVP tonight and then if all goes well we can take him off after an hour but I wouldn't like to see us underestimate Braga by playing an out of form Nani, a rusty Young, Hernandez up on his own and a young CB with little experience all at once. That kind of line up has dropped points written all over it IMO.

TK-Red

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23 Oct 2012 12:09:48
I know your all going to say forget about him he's gone, but has anyone seen Paul Pogba's goal against Napoli, this boy is class and should have been given games last year, especially against Blackburn when he was only a sub and Rafael was played in midfield!!

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I totally agree with you!

Simmo

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23 Oct 2012 11:21:16
Jake Livermore anyone? 'Xactly what we need IMO. Strong in the tackle, energetic, good on the ball and decent passer. Been watching Jake since he was 14. He has always stood out and been head and shoulders above his peers.

I have always rated him above Rodwell. Potentially better than Wilshere, McEachran, and Pogba, he is in the top 5 of English's next generation of stars (taken from official website).

Im guessing Spurs would sell for 10m-12m pounds. Small change if you ask me looking at the lad's potential.
We could also throw in Anderson (loan) as a sweetener.

For me this would be better than shelling out 40m euros on money-grubbing mercenaries like Witsel and Vidal.
Also just want to ask ed, is it true Petraci stalling on signing new deal? If true I wouldn't be too fussed. I think Tom Carrol from Spurs would be a good replacement. Good player.

Neils

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Why would you ditch your own kids for someone else's.

I think our young manchester united kids have a lot of potential, but they just need to realise the importance of playing for manchester united and need to have desire to fight for first team oppurtunities.

Fergie has been managing for years and he hasnt just got the success he has just like that.

Youth need to be patient i am sure the likes of Petrucci, lingard, keane, tunnicliffe and the rest will get the chance if they are deemed good enough.

No point looking at neighbours garden when you cant water your own. ;)....

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Patience....look what happened with Pogba.
You can only be patient for so long and if you don't get the chance it's natural for players to want first team action somewhere else.

Simmo

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Cleverley and anderson are much better than livermore. Give tunicliffe a year or 2 and hell be better. There's a reason he isnt playing for spurs.

I dont understand why we tend to overhype other teams' players. Fergy was right about the cow in other people's field after all.

Mick

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I agree, but me and you here have no control.

We can only wait and be patient, no point in you not sleeping over our kids not playing.

At the end of the day we are only supporters and we should be able to support the club during tough and good times.

I think fergie is just being a little sentimental here and he doesnt want to take any risks.

I also think Nani, Giggs and scholes are the main problem here, Once these three are gone out of the club you'll see a lot of youngsters given a chance.

In other words the likes of Giggs and scholes should use their brain and retire and give the kids the chance as they were once kids themselves. They need to realise that the club wouldnt benefit from their old legs and they need to look for the benefit for the club not be selfish and try playing for united whilst offering very little.

With regards to Nani, there is nothing more you can say.

Nani has been given endless chances for the club, but the simplest thing he cant do is PASS, He has so much talent but yet doesnt make the right decisions on the field maybe because he wants to score goals which others cant.

I also think fergie is retiring very soon, I think it will be end of 2013 season.

Hence why he is not making any bold decisions but then i also think he would want to leave on a winning note therefore i am a little confused as what he is trying to achieve.

Anyways like i said you can only support the club, Me and you are supporters not decision makers so sleep well dont stress and watch the game tonight ;)

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23 Oct 2012 15:24:01
I read your post, and this time i finished all of it.
Even scousers are not this dellusional my friend.

Livermore better than the likes of Whilshere? Livermore would make shelvey look like a world beater. Good on the ball ? This is horse sh**.

And neither of witsel or vidal is a money-grubber. Witsel might be a mercenary but why would you say that about vidal? He's on relativly low salary and considering he is argubly the best defensive midfielder in the world he could have moved to a bigger club last summer and got a bigger salary.

And finally, lol @ Petraci. If he hasnt signed a new club its partly the club 's fault for not giving him a chance. He is 21 and not guetting any younger and whatever team he moves to ( if he is to leave ) he willl get his chance and be a brilliant addition to the team.

Mick

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23 Oct 2012 11:00:57
So Italian media reporting that one of our long term targets, Wesley Sneijder, may be exiting Inter soon. Not a clue how reliable it is, but either way (and for a bit of pre match discussion!) if we were to land him, what does everyone think the most effective line up would be with him in the team? I'd go with something like this...

-----------De Gea----------
Rafael-Smalling-Vidic-Buttner
-----Cleverley--Anderson----
-----------Sneijder----------
-------Rooney--Kagawa-----
-------------RVP-----------

I think that would be pretty competitive in Europe and in the EPL. Any thoughts guys?

Andy!

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23 Oct 2012 05:24:03
hey eds is there any updates on whereabouts of rhain davis.............is he still with us. he is 15 now

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He is still in the U16's.

Sydney!

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I know this kid he goes to wilmslow high school whilst i go to stockport grammar in the same year but trust me he is a good player but nothing too special

Coombesy

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23 Oct 2012 07:01:28
read on caught offside fergie showing strong interest in sergio ramos,any views ED & peeps'

-JEB-

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My view is that u should stop reading caught offside

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