Manchester United Banter Archive October 23 2013

 

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23 Oct 2013 22:58:12
Anybody still want to start Smalling ahead of Evans in the centre of defence?

Evans looks head and shoulders above the two younger lads at the minute, not withstanding a decent show from Jones tonight.

Defenders get better with age, as they learn their craft, and Evans' positional sense and his distribution alone, make him a shoe-in to partner Vidic regularly, for now at least.

Also liked the way he went toe to toe with the Sociedad guy, and didn't flinch - he seems to be toughening up a bit.

Those calling for Smalling to play that part, are asking far too much too soon from a decent young player, especially at a turbulent time for the team.

A settled, experienced back two, is essential to bringing some sort of stability, and for me anyway, it has to be Vidic and Evans.

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Completely agree mate, he's by far the best defender we have at the moment, even ahead of vidic IMO, vidic may be a beast and more willing to throw himself into tackles, but Evans is more intelligent, and even technically better.

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As with Jase, I completely agree. I was saying to my brother earlier this evening 2 years ago Vidic got injured and we all wondered whether JEvans could stand up to the plate, he did (we might not have won the league but he still played incredibly well). Last year there was a myriad of injuries to our defenders and again JEvans stepped up and performed superbly. This year he is a year older and a year better, for me he should be in our starting pair

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I think for this season at least vidic should partner with evens with jones replacing vidic when he needs resting.

as evra is unlikely to renew his contract and rio llikely to retire I can see vidic staying on another year but with jones and evens being the main cb's next season.

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I was talking to my mate earlier and we were agreeing how Evans is almost our all around best consistent defender. He reads the opposition very well, got good feet and is much more pacey than both Rio and Vida.

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23 Oct 2013 22:05:31
Well no brilliant tonight, but certainly not bad. Coud have conceeded but should have scored a few too. I thought Rooney and Kagawa linked up very wll, perhaps giving us hope that they can actually play together. He did make a few errors, but I think Kagawa did enough tonight to warrant a run in the team. Giggs too deserves a mention. At 39 years old, I'm not always filled wih confidence when I see him starting, but I think tonight was an excellent lesson in why you should leave your comments until AFTER the game.
I said t the weekend, the one thing we are missing more than anything is confidence. There were signs tonight that it may be returning. let's hope we can use tonight as a good foundation going into the Stoke game and build fron there.

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Kagawa is brilliant and more than desreves a run in the team. He is the only player and that includes our strikers who has such a brilliant technical ability and such an intelligent player that can open up teams. NO wonder Klop loves him. He is rusty and not fully fit, give him a run 10 games and he might be our revelation of the season and get us clicking.

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GCU, I totally agree about Kagawa. You will probably have noticed from previous posts that I am a big fan of his. It seems ludicrous that a player of his ability cannot find a place in a team so obviously lacking in creativity. I just don't understand this theory that Rooney and Kagawa cannot play in the same team. I think last night clearly showed that they can. In fact, I thought they actually bought out the best in each other.

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BS

I think his best position is the no 10 role in a 4-2-3-1 system and he showed that in the second half by creating chances for others and himself. A lot of people on the site have been talking about one striker set up and going by last night especially in the second half that is the best we have looked all year.

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GCU, again I totally agree. I, like a few others said even before the league started that I thought we had a squad of players that would suit that system well. The think about playing a"3" bedind a central striker is that they are all so interchangeable. At times its almost like playing we 3 no.10's, in so much that they are all playmakers. We saw last night both Rooney and Kagawa on the left, on the right, and through the middle at different times. If we can get them playing well consistently and linking up with RVP we could be very good offensively.

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23 Oct 2013 21:50:23
The scoreline doesn't reflect the true story today. Very good performance and very unlucky not to have scored more. They hardly had a sniff to be honest. I thought the intensity of play was good and we won a lot of balls that we were second to previously. A good high tempo to the play, something we can build on.

Nice performance from Kagawa. Top class from Giggs, at the end he was just showing them how its done. Moyes isn't looking as clueless in Europe as everyone thought he would, although of course we are yet to face any quality opposition.

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23 Oct 2013 21:46:20
I hate to be negative after a win in Europe but I doubt the best teams are shaking in their boots after our performance tonight. Rooney was good, as was De Gea, after that it's more difficult. Kagawa looked classy but needed to be in a stronger midfield. Chicharito looked so disappointed to be taken off and wouldn't look at Moyes, beginning of the end perhaps. Same weaknesses we are all aware of but, at least, the players looked as if they they cared tonight.

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So don't be negative. We played well, created plenty of chances and won. Be happy

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23 Oct 2013 21:48:13
Looks like the penny has finally dropped. We played like a United team tonight, and not an Everton one. I thought some of our play was top class. Rooney and Kagawa were unplayable at times. Giggs just keeps rubbing my negative comments in my face because I thought he was magnificent tonight.

If we can maintain that kind of performance level for the rest of the season, then we will be alright. I just hope Moyes' builds on this performance. I so want the guy to prove wrong.

Onwards and upwards!

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23 Oct 2013 22:06:47
hi sam. hope u are rigth about it, if we can keep this up and get rvp going with rooney and kawaga then we will be good.:)

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Agreed, having Rooney and Kagawa on the pitch transforms our play. We just need to get RVP and Januzaj on the pitch at the same time as well!

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RVP, Rooney, Januzaj and Kagawa sounds good, but it is hard to see how they could fit together, all in their "favoured" position, and may I say lack of defensive work rate.?

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I thought Kagawa was the best player on the pitch tonight, he's got such great control and acceleration anywhere on the pitch. We need to start playing him more and give him more freedom. However I do think the CL suits him more as it's fast pace, especially tonight.

I'd love to see Kagawa, Rooney, RvP and Januzaj all playing at the same time, insane amount of skill right there.

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Rvp up top, rooney, kags and januzaj in behind as a three and clevs and carrick behind in a 4-2-3-1 formation simples.

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MG

It might work although not rooney's favorite position but as long as RVP and Rooney are switching or have kagawa, rooney, RVP rotating through out the game, which would be neat but need games together to get used to it.

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23 Oct 2013 21:46:13
Full apologies to Giggs, he was great today, but makes you wonder about a Carrick and Fel midfield, far to slow. A confident Kagawa scores that goal and questions must be asked of Hernandez, he's a bit of a one trick pony. When Kagawa was given more freedom in the 2h he was great. Interesting to see what the lineup will be on Saturday.

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23 Oct 2013 21:40:18
Right guys. Can we please dispense with all the, 'oh God, Giggs is playing' posts before every game? It's getting boring now.

He is a squad player, therefore he will play games. Get used to it.

Didn't do too badly tonight either.

StevieK

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StevieK

When I saw the lineup, and Carrick/Giggs in the middle, I almost posted on here but I never do so before games so resisted the urge.

Glad I did now, as while a better team would have over-run us, Giggs actually played very well and I would have looked an person.

Pleased with the 3pts, some good plus points like Kagawa, onwards and upwards hopefully.

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Red_ Sky,

I was thinking the same as you before the game and thought he did well against the opposition.

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23 Oct 2013 21:39:53
Much improved performance against a somewhat poorer team than most we play.

We closed down much better in midfield, valencia especially. Rafael seems to still be getting his match fitness.

Kagawa after that performance must get more of a look in in the league.

Hernandez looked off the ball, but again not had much game time.

Mainly solid at the back, although still a couple of silly mistakes.

As for Giggs, nearly 40 and he had a blinder! He's good in these games as he gets a bit more time on the ball than he would in the league.

Worst part was not scoring more. So many chances and we won from an own goal.

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23 Oct 2013 21:36:44
Kagawa looks a better player when linking with Rooney

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23 Oct 2013 21:31:08
RYAN GIGGS
some on here should hold there head in shame

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Giggs was below par on Saturday to be fair. The Champions League actually suits him better than the BPL does.

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He played very well and twe played very well and thanks god we won and the score does not ell the whole story.

We should have had 4 or 5 goals but typical David platt says the other team created plenty of chances and no one ever gives us credit. Anyway onwards and upwards.

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Well said jred. A lot on here just open their mouths without engaging the brain first.

The guy deserves better.

StevieK

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23 Oct 2013 20:43:08
Hope we score another 2. If you have missed it, must see Ibrahamovic hatrick and the 3rd goal is out of this world.

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23 Oct 2013 20:35:48
Good game tonight. Ref is poor though.

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23 Oct 2013 20:27:41
what on earth is this ref doing? rubbish. stupid yellow cards for both teams!

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23 Oct 2013 19:23:04
At least Kagawa is starting.

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Kagawa should be getting his chances with a better midfield behind him.

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What's the betting Giggs plays the full game, Kagawa gets taken off on 60 mins to be replaced by young or fellaini.

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Agree with you Syd. It would also help to have a striker who can recieve and play a pass - the game has completely passed hernandez by.

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Good first half by giggs some off the comments on here again about a United legend are a disgrace .
Who would people of played instead of giggs, May be 39 but still as good an option as any of the others, says it all really

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Kagawa a joy to watch, best technical player in the squad.

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People shouldn't be saying anything bad about Giggs. My frustrations are with the club for not having enough midfield options at the club. We shouldn't be playing a 39 year old in midfield, that isn't Giggs' fault. Sadly he is another scapegoat for the manager's neglect of the midfield.

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The last 2 games, our offense seems to start clicking and we might put a big score on someone in the next few weeks.

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23 Oct 2013 19:13:35
Any idea where RVP is tonight fellas

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If reports are true shopping in London

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Did'nt he have an argument with Moyes in training?

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Injured 2 bad toes and still a groin issue.

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23 Oct 2013 18:58:52
Giggs starting in midfield tonight, this is getting ridiculous how much he's playing this year. I could see Fergie playing him out of loyalty buy Moyes has no such issues. Carrick and Giggs in midfield, I don't think any teams are too worried about playing us. No RVP today and not even on the bench.

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Giggs has been a legend for us but I am really getting annoyed seeing his name in the team just lately.

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I'm rarely a negative one, but I'd have to agree. I'd rather see Cleverley instead of Giggs here as maybe he can still progress. Giggs can't really learn anything new and his form hasn't been the best from what my eyes see. I do like the line-up apart from #11

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Not been too shabby tonight boys, so far.

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Credit where it's due, Giggs had a good game, Kagawa has shown why everybody was calling for him to play. In spite of no true goals tonight I think we played very well.

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23 Oct 2013 18:56:57
Moyes paid £27.5m for Fellaini but he has more faith in a 39 year old left winger's ability in the middle.

It was obvious to everyone that game changed, for the worse, last weekend when Giggs came on. Everyone aside from Moyes of course. No new ideas, never learns from his mistakes.

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And he said we know excatly what to do to put things right.
My foot.
He meant start giigs from the begaining rather than from the bench.
Thats maximum that dull ass can think.

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Giggs starts in midfield tonight, you cannot make this rubbish up.

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Unbelievable, I am surprised with the whole line up. Sociadad will flood the midfield, so let's see how this goes.

Is RVP injured?

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In there to pick the tempo up

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So Danny, Giggs had such a monumentally negative influence in the 5 mins he was on the pitch, that he was responsible for conceding a goal from a corner?

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23 Oct 2013 17:50:15
There is a report we opted for Bebe in instead of Hazzard in 2010.If true it is an incredible and almost funny screw up. {Ed002's Note - That is not the case. Clubs look at players all of the time - there is no need to twist things.}

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24 Oct 2013 01:48:21
Ed02 not twisting anything just stating something that is out there in the media, they are obviously spinning stuff as it seems unbelievable. {Ed002's Note - No, you twisted it by saying "we opted for Bebe in instead of Hazzard". It is simply not true.}

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23 Oct 2013 18:03:58
Someone mentioned below that Dortmund were playing 4231. I don't think too much about formations as they should be fairly fluid during a game at the top level and change depending on where you are on the pitch and wether in possession or not but quite frequently Dortmund were playing with 2 up in almost like a 4132 formation which I think would be a possibility with Kagawa in behind Rooney and RVP with one of them always staying up and the other dropping back when needed. you could have Fellaini or Carrick sitting deeper and take your pick over the other 2 as as long as someone is sitting deeper the whole front 5 could interchange or the 3 behind Rooney and RVP. But I'm not Moyes and this is only an option for a starting 11 in our biggest games, but it could accommodate wingers when needed and Chicharito when playing could benefit from either Rooney or RVP close too him.

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23 Oct 2013 17:27:48
Looks likely that this is evras last season who do you think we will go in for to replace him? I wouldn't really want baines because of the age it would only be a quick fix with him even though he is quality, I would like Shaw good quality young player

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23 Oct 2013 15:39:36
Anyone who isn't aware and doesn't have Sly Sports, the match is live on Sly One HD tonight.

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23 Oct 2013 11:54:44
The big question is, how are we going to get our fear factor back? According to Capello we had bid 100 million for Bale, if this is true then we have the money to buy anyone, even Ronaldo. We have to make a stellar signing, preferably a winger who scores a lot of goals. I'm not saying that Ronaldo will come because I don't believe he will want to play for Moyes - what I am saying is that we need at least a 150 million investment on two or three players in the squad. AND if PSG do make a 100 million bid for Ronaldo then we have to go straight in there and match it as I am sure that he would still choose us over them.

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A humble request to all United supporters "Please get over Ronaldo". Time and again he has flirted with the club just to get a better salary package. All he cares about is himself. He has already said that United is my past and left the club for "his childhood dream".
I like all United fans am very thankful to him for serving our club. But now using our name to get a better deal just puts him in the bracket of Tevez and Rooney who according to many of you are just mercenaries. I would rather support Rooney for the time being as he is still at the club and according to SAF asked to sign Özil.
On another note I do agree with you that to get our fear factor back we need to sign a couple of big players(not strikers). But it will all depend on how Moyes does this season as big names would want to work with a manager who can win trophies. I guess we'll have to wait till the end of the season and see.

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I would rather spend 100 million on 3 top quality players than one superstar. Vidal, Verrati, Verrane the 3 vs would be Brilliant but more like dream land :)

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With 100m I would like to see Reus, Vidal and Gundogan.

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Finally we agree shahrah! :)
IMO Gundogan is the player we should try for most of all as I think he's exactly what we need and if he can be convinced to sign then i'm sure there's a chance of doing a deal wth Dortmund maybe involving kags?
Id prefer we kept kags but its clear he doesn't fit moyes plans atm and with Adnan stepping up it could be a good deal for us.
I think Sebastian Rode would be another good option to add the midfield

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I actually believe we need 6 players at least( Hopefully some of these can come through youth development)over the next 2 years or so. Giggs, Evra, Rio and even Vidic and Carrick nearing the end of their illustrious careers. Young, Anderson, Macheda, Fabio, Valencia not good enough(Fellaini too but we just bought him /cry) and Chico and Kagawa frustrated with lack of play time.
That's virtually a full side, while I don't expect them all to leave, just from retirements its a goodly number to replace.

I agree 100% Vidal would in my opinion be the best signing we could make. I'm just not sure the Glazers would invest the kind of money necessary. The days of established players coming to Unites just because its united are gone and Market forces set the price of players, no value in the market does not get the job done.
Anyway will be rooting for us in the pub tonight.

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Babyfaced

Not so fast LOL, Vidal is better than Gundogan IMO. Probably the most complete midfielder around at the moment.

I am surprised no one picked a centre back, those 3 fix our spine and you can play so many awesome combinations around them with our existing players that we would look like word beaters again. They all have great pace and presence and engines to go with it. Will probably never happen but we can all dream.

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GRUND,
Id say rio, evra, carrick, giggs and maybe vidic need replacing in the next 12-18 months due to ageing legs and young, valencia, anderso need replacing with better quality IMO.
Thats a lot of money in a short space of time and i'm not sure the glazers will sign a cheque big enough.
Obviously we have Adnan, powell, zaha and maybe michael keane who could step up eventually but they need to be given the opportunity.I think its going to be difficult but not impossible with the right man management of the youngsters and 3 or 4 quality signings but those signings have to be realistic targets. I personally think Gundogan and Rode would be realistic, quality signings for cm add a quality winger and lb and things look a lot better IMO and allow jones and smalling to develop as a cb pairing for after this season or when vidic finishes

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Shahram,
Vidals a beast but I don't see him being available and I think Gundogan would be the best option that could be available if we sacrifice kags to get him.
Dont know how much you know about Rode but he's another very good option but I think Bayern are looking at him.
I think a quality cb will be needed when vidic goes but tbh I can't think of any that would be available and tbh i'd like to see jones and smalling given a chance but they both need to step up a bit

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I agree vidal would not be available. I would not in anyway swap kagawa and go after Gundogan.

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23 Oct 2013 11:34:09
Shahram,

In response to your sarcastic question about me having played the game, which tbh came across like a child who doesn't like somebody having a different opinion, the answer is yes I have.
I actually commented on another thread and agreed that you were right that we don't currently have the players to play a high pressing game.
Maybe you're a little upset that we don't agree on moyes and your chilsish question may have come from that but you can pick your toys up now mate.
The fact is the substitution klopp made was not the defend and hold on substitution moyes made despite them being away from home to a very good arsenal side while we were at home to southampton!
All iv read lately from you is what appears to be blind faith in moyes' ability and appear to be blaming everyone and everything except moyes for what's happening on the pitch.
We all know he was left with a lot of problem areas but that doesn't excuse his failiure to strengthen or the fact were currently playing like a very average midtable team does it? He has refused to try anything different deslite things not working and that comes down to him and nobody else. You also seem to think that players will sign for us whether were playing UCL next season or not but do you actually believe that? Sure there would be the odd one but if you gonestly think a top, top player would choose moyes' united playing europa league over chelsea, city or arsenal in the UCL then i'd ask you the same question, have you ever played football?

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Spurs and Monaco did not qualify for the UCL this season. Did either of them struggle to sign players in the summer? We may be going through a bad spell, but Manchester United are a far bigger "pull" than either of those two teams. Its a sad state of affairs, but for many modern footballers money is more important than, for example, UCL participation. Pay them, and they will come.

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BS,
youre right the name manchester united should be a bigger pull but you then say money is a bigger motivator than UCL and you may be right but Chelsea, City and maybe even Arsenal can all pay as much, If not more than us in fees and wages.
They also don't have a high debt to service which failiure to qualify for UCL would affect.
were all united fans and the majority of us are concerned about the manager, tactics, style of play etc so do you not think potential targets would also? In the eyes of most failiure to qualify for the first time would suggest were a fading force and if other clubs pay the same and are on the up would the xhance to play for mancgester united be enough? i'd like to think so but like you said times have changed and peoples motivations are different

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No Name/Babyfaced I am assuming

I actually apologized as I had not read your comments but it did not get posted by the editors for some reason.

I do blame moyes for our summer transfers and the CEO, whilst everyone on the site decided it was the equalizers fault and we all had that debate couple of months ago.

The difference between me and the majority at the moment is I don't blame moyes for everything under the sun and in most games our team picks itself and our standard of play is more to do with the players than the manager. e were sh. t last year but everything RVP touched went in for the first 5 months of the season and City was a mess and so was Chelsea and we broke their spirits early on, this year they are not going in and the rest are all better.

Once you Write rooney, RVP, Evra, Rafael, Carrick as sure starters on the team sheet, There is very little choice in changing things completely and how you set up. You can try 10 different variations but the team is either defensively weak or offensively disjointed.

I do worry about DM transfer choices but will give the man time to see what he is about. The winningest manager of all time picked the guy and he for sure knows a lot about who is right or wrong for the job than all of us put together.

Yes I do believe players will sign for United if United wants to spend money and one season of missing CL, which is not the case a all as of now will have no influence. I played football at colleague level at OSU in the states if you want to know.

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Baby Faced

I take your point, my post could be interpreted as a bit contradictory. But my point was that UCL qualification alone would not stop a lot of players joining any club, not just ours. Money is a huge motivator in the game now, and we will still have to compete money wise whether we an the UCL or not. Try looking at it from the other way round. Imagine the scenario where United qualify for next seasons UCL, and City don't. In the summer transfer window both teams go after the same player. Both teams offer the same transfer fee. United offer wages of £100k a week. City offer £200k a week. Many players will take the cash , no question. The same goes for style of play, manager, whatever. Like I said, pay them and they will come.
I'm not saying we should pay silly money like City and Chelsea, because I don't want those type of players at our club. I I hope for players that want to wear the shirt with pride. Players who understand the history and tradition of the club. Players that feel privileged to play for the club. Sadly, players like that are a dying breed. For most , money talks. Simple as that.

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Shahram, yes it was me.
Didnt see the apology as I can't find the thread so apologies.
I have always agreed that moyes was left with weak areas, particularly midfield but he failed to improve it all summer and then panicked and decided paying £27m for fellaini was a good idea after apparently rejecting the chance to sign thiago and ozil which is very worrying when you consider we need well over £100m spending in the next 18 months.
Iv always said he needed time but nearly a quarter of the way through the season and there's been absolutely no improvement so far and i'm not as confident as you that failiure to get UCL next season wouldn't affect the quality of signings.
from what iv seen so far moyes seems uncertain, lacks attacking ideas and doesn't really inspire either the fans or players. He seems to have an aura of defeatism about him and looks nothing like the leader and winner a club needs.
We look like were lacking leadership and direction atm and after 5 months in the job I don't see anything, signing inxluded, that gives me any optimism avout moyes' ability to keep us successful

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BS,
I knew what you meant mate and I agree but all the other teams challenging for the title can easily pay what we can and in some cases a lot more.
I just worry that if you ask most top players with no allegiance or preference to any side would manchester united, playing the uninspiring football we are atm, with a manager who looks equally uninspiring and a squad of ageing player who are playing europa league football be an attractive proposition compared to the likes of city, chelsea or arsenal, playing with exciting, younger players, playing mostly atteactive football in europes top competition then I just can't honestly see any of them choosing us if all clubs offered the same wages.
I also doubt the willingness of the club to pay the extra needed to convince them to sign. I just think it could be a bigger problem than you and shahram think it will but hopefully wel get things sorted and it won't be a problem as wel qualify for UCL anyway :)

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Very good assessment of Moyes's start at United by Daniel Harris in the guardian. Have to say that I agree with most of what he says.

Moyes cannot be blamed for everything at the club, but he has to accept ultimate responsibility for how poorly the team is playing and how far off the top of the table we are. As Harris says, "ultimately, there are only three differences between this season's United and last: a player signed by David Moyes, men employed by David Moyes and David Moyes." If a few players were under-performing that would be understandable, for the majority of the squad to be playing poorly this points toward a larger problem, and the common denominator is the change in manager and first team coaches.

We have been plodding through games relying on individual brilliance rather than strategy to break teams down. We have lost our ability to maintain possession and counter attack at speed, the two primary reasons we won the league last season. And, perhaps most tellingly, I honestly can't remember the last time a United team played so many long balls. Can Moyes supporters tell me what his tactical framework for the team is? Because I honestly can't see any rhyme or reason other than 'I hope we do enough not to lose, and perhaps even nick a 1 goal win'.

Moyes deserves a full season. But he did absolutely nothing at Everton to warrant a top job, and he is currently doing nothing to warrant keeping his job next year.

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23 Oct 2013 09:32:44
Ed's any reason why my post has been removed from the banter page? {Ed002's Note - If it has been removed there will be a reason. Typically someone will have spoilt it by posting a "team". That typically gets threads removed.}

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Cheers for the reply eds much appreciated

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23 Oct 2013 08:54:31
Morning. Watched arsenal v Dortmund game. While neither team played their best, not helped by the weather either. A few things became apparent.
How much gundogan is missed in the Dortmund team. He really is a good player.
The importance of playing high numbers in midfield. As soon as Dortmund lost the ball, they had five in midfield fighting to win the ball back, as a result, arsenal were hurried and created very little.
We have not got the calibre of personnel in the middle of the park, but can match them up front and in defence. What we need to do is to play carrick, as holding, then any two from cleverly Anderson and fellaini, then kagawa and januzaj behind the lone striker.
However, I don't think Moyes has got the authority or courage to tell either rvp or Rooney that there's only room for one at any given time.
I hope we play something along these lines tonight, if we go out with two wingers again and leave carrick and fellaini on their own in the middle, then we will see sociadad running the game as has been the case all season.

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We lack speed in midfield. That is fairly obvious. Carrick and Fellaini are tragically slow and with RvP and Rooney both playing as strikers, there is a huge hole between the midfield and attack. That hole is where teams are getting the ball back and have plenty of time to build an attack of their own. We need the defence to push up which will push the midfield further forward, the problem is if opposition players get into the gap between the midfield and defence then Carrick and Fellaini will not catch them because both are too slow. They are also both too slow when in possession of the ball.

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Both teams played 4-2-3-1 United could easily play this and fit Rvp and Rooney in . Rooney played a similar role for England the other week it would also suit the Carrick Fellaini partnership imo

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Both Nomidfield and Sydney are spot on given they can see what's going wrong at utd could they not be given a hot line to Moyes office!

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Jred

We played that exact same system against Southampton with rooney, nani and janusaj playing behind RVP and carrcik and fellaini holding.

The difference is Rooney tends to move around and play a number 9/10 combination.

I think Sydney has hit the nail on the head with his assessment of Fellaini and Carrick. Whilst everyone is always talking about formations and players, our build up play is so slow and we hardly see one touch passes as every one takes 2 or 3 touches before making the pass. I watched Bilbao the other night but their one touch passing and pace is awesome, granted not every pass is successful but then they press when they lose the ball and close down players.

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I'm glad you mentioned Anderson in there. He seems to be the forgotten man at OT at the moment. I know he has fitness issues, but when he does play he brings so much more directness and energy to our midfield. His problem is that he cannot keep it up for 90 minutes. Our midfield is obviously poor at the minute, but you have to ask why? Anderson . Nani and kagawa are all technically very good players. If they leave United in the near future as seems likely, at least in 2 of the 3 cases mentioned, I am confident they will go on to do very well elsewhere. We seem to have a recent history of spending lots of money on technically gifted players, only to then try to change the way they play when they get here. I am sure that there will be replies that say for every Nani there is a Ronaldo, or something similar. But the question remains, why do so many very talented, technically gifted players flop at Old Trafford?

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It's a shame that you haven't had cause to change your name yet, No Midfield.

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God created
Still haven't seen the Southampton match the fellaini and Carrick partnership is awful it's got to be one or the other preferable neither.
We should of brought 2 quick creative cm in the summer imo .
Carrick is a good player but out dated imo to slow and doesn't cover enough ground

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I agree Jred, we should have bought Thiago. I'm really hoping it wasn't Moyes' decision not to sign him. It was a very poor decision and if it's our manager that made it, then god help us ;)

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Jred

I would be interested to hear your views once you see the match as you have always had a balance d view around here.


I thought we deserved to win and offensively looked the best we have this season. They had possesion but very little to worry about and an 88th minute corner has turned this site on it's head. We have been winning games ugly for almost 3 years and were 2 minutes away from another not so beautiful win :)

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Thanks for the feedback. I honestly think if we get the numbers in midfield then we will be more compact unit and we will not lose the ball as much.
In my opinion, if we played with high numbers in midfield, this will reduce the pressure on our defence.
We need to play one up front with two creative midfielders behind him. We have the personnel in these areas, we just need Moyes to play them all in one team.
What has he got to lose? What he has been doing since he go in, has clealry not worked.

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I wish we'd bought Ander Herrera, he's very mobile and likes to attack whether that's with the ball at his feet or making a good forward pass. He's also relatively quick and can defend. Carrick and Herrera in midfield along with Kagawa would be great IMO. I hope we go back in for Herrera in January as I think he made it clear he'd heavily consider a move to United.

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23 Oct 2013 08:42:37
Anyone else think that given the opportunity Kagawa and Janujaj would be a killer Combination?

I think with a decent midfield battler to maintain an win possession it would give us the edge in being able to play two Strikers.

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Need 2 midfielders and we would get run over and defensively suffer but offensively look more attractive.

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Hi first time poster here great site, first of all iv been reading this site for a good while now and everyone keepts talking about kagawa if kagawa was that good do u not think he would be getting a game? in my opinion he hasn't proved anything yet and yes he has had the playing time. there's only 8 games gone and everyone saying the league is over were only 8 points off the leaders which is arsenal and let's be realistic here we all know arsenal won't win the league I still think we will come good give moyes time he was left with these players give him a few years to put his own stamp on the team.

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I was thinking a Herrera/Godungon style player to keep the ball alongside the Wig/Carrick to break up the play

With Rooney, Kagawa and Adnan feeding RVP

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23 Oct 2013 06:29:08
@Red Man

You brought up a very interesting point further down the page about have any David Moyes players at Everton gone into top teams after that. Off the top of my head I can definitely think of Lescott who is first choice for City, Arteta who has been first choice at Arsenal, Gravesen went on to play for Real Madrid. In their current team Baines definitely will walk into into any premier league team right now and perhaps Mirallas will also break into a top team.

We also need to look at the tough financial constraints he was under at Everton and it definitely limited what he could buy. Still, the number of players that went on to play for a top club are few.

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You forgot Rooney & Fellaini

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How about Barkeley and Cahill. Whilst we are on the subject how many of our players have gone to top teams, Exclude any major buys who have then moved on i.e. Van Nistleroy, Tevez as they were already top players.

I can only think of Beckham and CR07

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Rooney and Barkley were not bought by Moyes, did they not come through the youth. Fellaini should not be with us, Lescott has had a chequered period at City. Graveson to Madrid was different but didn't last long and maybe Arteta was an exception. Still very few seem to have gone to top sides. Remember there are more above Everton during the Moyes years than there were above us but that also says not many clubs above Everton of which there were regularly 6 ish took their players and almost none of the big Europeans. Moyes bought sixth place players and that is generally what he achieved at best.
It was an answer to someone who commented on Moyes buying prowess

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23 Oct 2013 06:14:09
Does anyone else think Sir Alex's book release has actually done good for Moyes and taken a lot of the attention off him and United's poor form, at least for the time being?

I have not posted about the game at the weekend, so here it goes.

Moyes got what he deserved for trying to defend a 1-0 lead. You never do that at Old Trafford, ever, it was a bit shameful. But, then I looked at what Moyes could have done from off the bench and it didn't look too promising. He could not have changed tactics, there just weren't players there that could have done anything different and given him a goal. He did not have a Tom Cleverley there to add numbers in midfield. He played the best 11 possible, I don't think anyone can argue with that. Fellaini was a massive liability throughout the game, a signing which already looks a huge waste of cash. We gave the ball away cheaply and is what ultimately cost us.

The good news of the equalizer finally getting something done with the Januzaj deal just got overshadowed by the draw.

Last season, it was the same story to be honest, it was nothing particularly different other than the two shots that hit the bar at the weekend were going in last season, a bit like destiny, for Sir Alex's last season. The fact that the club failed to back Moyes financially, is what is costing us now.

Everyone is going on about Kagawa, I honestly don't understand how do you expect Moyes to accommodate him into the team alongwith Rooney. Kagawa out on the left offers less than what Januzaj does right now, so that is not an option imo. RVP and Rooney have to play, they are our two best players. To get the best out of Kagawa we will need 2-3 players in and around him who play the one two passing style, we do not have that at the moment, even with Kagawa in the team, I highly doubt it would be any different. People have fallen into the trap imo of just believing Kagawa will somehow magically change the way we play.

What we are seeing right now, is something we always knew, we have a lot of above average to good level players who were highly dependent on Sir Alex's managing style to get them to punch above their weight. A lot of this dross needs to leave and replaced with better quality players. The strikers, defenders, keeper are Manchester United level players, alongwith Carrick and a youngster in Januzaj, where we need to improve is the remaining two positions, namely a winger, a left back and another central midfielder. Especially the poor show from midfield highly affects the game of the other players.

On the eve of the game against Sociedad, I look at the squad and injuries, and the team basically will pick itself, there is hardly some David Moyes factor to blame on team selections right now. Hoping for a solid performance tonight, and some of the players to up their game, they have let the fans down up until now.

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You can accommodate rooney and kagawa in the same team 4141 the two in the middle of the four in midfield would be rooney and kagawa in attacking roles with freedom to roam when we've got the ball and without the ball press really high up the pitch I think it would work

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REDfaith

Excellent post mate and very sensible. I do agree with your Kagawa analysis and playing him and Rooney and RVP will see us get hammered in midfield.

Everyone wants Kagawa and for him to be effective, he needs a run of games confidence and fitness level and one of the strikers has to sit and allow for Kagawa to play a number 10 but based on form and issues it will create with either striker this is not going to happen.

All these formations everyone comes up with are such contrived stuff and it is evident that we cannot play certain players in a 442.

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