Manchester United Banter Archive September 23 2018

23 Sep 2018 21:45:41
The problem I see is we can't get rid of anyone, to many average players, some from as far back as SAF, to many who should of just gone, but have either got long contracts, been given extensions, in the hope we make some money, or nobody else is interested in. IMO Jones, never been good enough. Smalling, frustrates, all the talent seems to lack desire. Rojo, a monster at times, a pussycat waiting an injury or mistake at others. Young, done his job time to go. Valencia, great service, either retire or squad player. Fellaini, should've gone in summer.
And no need to sign another defender, got Tzuanabe, Fosuh, Bailly, Lindelof, although he could be easily replaced, Shaw, Dalot.
Arguably Sanchez, hardly set the world on fire.
To many average players. Not enough desire. Even Lingard and Rashford seem disinterested and they're supposedly homegrown with a passion for the club.
The only players I see regularly and hear with a passion for MUFC seem to be DeGea, Herrera and Mata . All Spanish . Yet last two are squad players to José. I'd rather see effort and desire every game than what we see now.

24 Sep 2018 09:02:11
Good luck getting rid of sanchez, no club of sensible thinking would touch him at that wage.

23 Sep 2018 16:02:35
Trying so hard to keep the faith in José.

What I'd give to see a swashbuckling 4-4-2 with a dynamic forward pairing and skillful, driven wingers.

23 Sep 2018 17:28:20
Think José has reached his zenith at United. Ironic José saying he expected more from his players when the fans expected more from him.

23 Sep 2018 19:17:26
I expect more from the players at home, he picked the strongest side possible, and they struggled big time to break Wolves down, hows that Jose fault?

23 Sep 2018 20:11:26
His team, his tactics. José's third year now, are we progressing?
For me the turning point has been the Sanchez signing, someone to take us to the next level and challenge, something we all applauded at the time but with hindsight we will probably look back on as a mistake.
Jose complains about not having defensive reinforcements, but our issue for the last 6 years has simply been not scoring enough goals, we have not scored more than 70 goals in a season since 2012/ 13.

23 Sep 2018 20:42:08
Ok, I’m a long way from being a Jose fan but yesterday that was the players who didn’t work or try. There was a lack of urgency, a casualness that has become all too frequent. I know not how to solve it but like Jose, I am tearing my hair out.

23 Sep 2018 22:11:44
Players reflect their manager's attitude, maybe José calling out players in public rather than behind closed doors is where this all stems from. Are the players really playing for him anymore?

23 Sep 2018 08:18:30
Celtic fan here I used to love watching Man U growing up and realise just how good a manager Fergie was in the 90s 00s the team was full of leaders now it looks like the players are taking a wage and giving nothing in return.

23 Sep 2018 11:08:32
This bunch of players think that winning two games in a row gives them a pass for a less than sparkling performance. I'm sick and tired of the oft repeated "we must do better" mantra the players give after a poor performance. This bunch of wage thieves are simply not good enough. I have given Mourinho and this team my fullest backing and they continue to frustrate, it's time to get someone else at the helm and give him the backing and carte blanche to do whatever he thinks is necessary. Getting shot of quite a few of the lazy @rsed players might be a start.

{Ed025's Note - harsh george..but fair..

23 Sep 2018 12:35:09
How do we know he didn't try and get rid of them and we failed to do so.

23 Sep 2018 13:30:38
Charlie and Georgie, absolutely spot on. I've had enough of excuses as many fans have. They turn up and play half hearted, lazy football, then come out after and "must do better", lame excuses.
They're getting away with murder and myself and several of my friends who have been season ticket holders since 1970, have never seen such apathy within the players.
They can stuff it, as i won't be spending hard earned money on this dross. I've seen United teams with half the skill of the current team, but they always tried their hearts out. This team has no soul, no direction, no leaders, no respect.

23 Sep 2018 13:51:40
George, you think bringing ANOTHER manager will make the owners cough up to buy a new squad? your as deluded as the rest of the manager out brigade.

Mourinho wants to do what ever is necessary to turn the squad around, but he's not allowed. he's a head coach not a manager.

23 Sep 2018 14:55:14
Spot on AAA sick of this shower and there excuses. Overpaid and simply not good enough. They all think there world superstars which is laughable. There not fit to lace the boots of some of the genuine world class players we’ve had in the past. can't believe how many supporters now accept mediocrity and some of there excuse for rubbish performances are laughable.

23 Sep 2018 15:18:08
FZZ
I'm not one that subscribes to changing managers at the drop of a hat but something is obviously wrong with our current set up. I really wanted Mourinho to succeed just to put two fingers up to the media boys that have been on his case, the only way of doing so would be to go on a meaningful run of games with some positive results. The manager and his teams are unable to deliver consistently and it is no fun watching every team we face being a better footballing outfit than we are currently demonstrating. Real Madrid are constantly evolving and change their managers quite regularly, should we stick with something that is obviously not working just to prove we aren't a sacking club? Our rivals seem to identify weaknesses and do something about it, Chelsea recently won the Premier league and had a nightmare the following season, they did something about it, Pep made ruthless changes to rectify the failings within Man City they were proactive rather than reactive, Liverpool are now beginning to see the fruit of their managers actions and their player recruitment seems to be light years ahead of ours. The three clubs I've singled out have all recently rectified areas within their clubs that were deemed to be falling short of what was required and in a short space of time, I just want Utd to do the same.

23 Sep 2018 17:27:54
For me its not about sacking managers. I think it needs to be looked at from above firstly.

Also some players are not a good fit for us. They don't try hard enough.

Pep made changes because he has all the say so with what he wants, Jose doesn't.

23 Sep 2018 17:36:09
Mourinho has had ample time and funds to show progress, are we better than last year? Replacing José is not an option at the moment, but come the summer the owners should look at who is available.

23 Sep 2018 19:18:18
I wish the owners would make themselves available.

23 Sep 2018 19:46:29
Can't blame the owners, they have provided the funds and let the manager do what he wants as far as we know.
With every manager that comes in Fergie's shoes get that little bit bigger.

23 Sep 2018 20:05:09
I think we have been spoilt by Sir Alex who was found lacking at times tactically, but was a level above all other managers in being able to extract maximum effort from his players in every game.

I don't think there is another manager alive who could get the same effort from a superstar player in a dead rubber game at the end of the season as he could in a cup final.

That was what set Sir Alex a class a part from all other managers.

Think about it logically, not one of us give 100% at work every single day. In fact how many of us give 100% at work one day a week? A real 100% where you physically, mentally and emotionally couldn't have given anymore?

Yet we expect this from our players? The often given reason for this is because how much they get paid. But no one ever considers the same things that stop us being able to give our best in our jobs might effect the players in theirs.

Has anyone ever had a colleague signed off work for stress? Or depression or anxiety? Yet who has heard of a player being signed off? These things effect them as well. Maybe that explains what we consider strange team selections?

The fact is under every manager, for every team in the world players have off days. It can't always be attributed to such simple things like the players couldn't be bothered. Or the manager couldn't motivate them. They are people and have complicated lives, just like us.

Sir Alex was a genius as he was able to make sure that the 11 players on the pitch always gave 100%, probably because he wouldn't pick someone he knew wouldn't be able to give 100% at that moment.

However, it's probably unfair to expect that to continue under different managers. Some times we will have players unable to give 100% some of the time.

23 Sep 2018 20:36:01
Sir Alex was a big believer in sports science and during his tenure quite a lot of detail went into securing the best dietary and physical needs including gyms where the players could receive the best possible instruction in keeping themselves at optimum fitness levels and it showed, Utd almost always looked fitter than their opponents. LVG or Jose must have had all the fittings ripped out and replaced them with a dartboard, pool table and a free bar, this set of players look a lot less sharp than their rivals.

23 Sep 2018 20:45:27
SAF had the power of years of success behind him. Once the board backed him in the 90’s when he chose to break up the team and it succeeded he had control. That control meant the players knew they would go before SAF so they had to toe the line. The board gave Moyes a 6 year contract to try to replicate that “power” but it didn’t work and now we have so much undermining of Mourinho by the Exec VP and some fanes means his power is not as strong as it should be.
I cannot believe there is another on here defending the owners, “can’t blame the owners”, what? This summer they knew we needed several quality players in several positions and kept their hands in their pockets. The situation we are in is from higher than the manager and ignore it if you wish but another manager won’t make it work unless there is a unity of purpose.

23 Sep 2018 21:10:11
Agree Blackpool Red. Lou Macari was talking about our juniors having this attitude problem a few years back. Now, we have senior players earning vast amounts who can't be bothered to put a shift in. Shappy, liverpool and City players don't seem to have a problem with work rate every match. Its up to the manager to keep them fresh and hungry. How many times have you seen Athletico Madrid players giving less than 100%? Simione makes sure he has them primed and ready every match. Their players have respect for the manager, the club and the fans. Our lot have no work ethic and mo respect.
A good old fashioned kick up the backside is the least that should be served up.
Performances like Brighton and Wolves are simply unacceptable. I am really disillusioned with them and the manager.

23 Sep 2018 21:39:45
Your correct redman what have the board done for Jose he's finished two seasons at the club and apart from dalot, Bailly, lindelehoff, matic, Fred, pogba, Sanchez, lukaku, zlatan ibrahimovic and Miki he's been completely unbacked, how can he hope to compete only granted, a RB, 2 CBS, 3 CMS, 2 strikers and 2 widemen .
City have spent more so how can we compete although if that's the criteria of the big 6 the other 5 should be easy meat using that as a template
I know we had the rubbish he inherited and he's probably held at gunpoint to select those players above the ones he signed himself .
There's no way other teams simply bought better players than us who
are performing better than ours .
It's frustrating redman but apportion blame, the board should have accepted mistakes and bought a new CB, the players need a kick up the ass but the coach isn't tearing up any trees either .

23 Sep 2018 22:22:43
AAA

What is the difference between Simeone and Mourinho? Simeone is backed 100% by their board, is in an almost unassailable position so what he says goes, the players know that. Our decision makers have tried to put that in place but don’t back it up. The image this summer is a divide between the exec VP/ owners and the manager.

Slate
The coach has not been completely unbacked, but his starting position was very much worse than Pep and City have unity of purpose. Chelsea had the league winning team from 12 months ago and Liverpool have invested heavily. It was not just a CB but a right sided attacker we needed, have for years. If the owners get rid of the manager now what state would the club be in? What are the present goings on saying about the club’s ambition?

23 Sep 2018 22:50:48
Red nan. The difference is chalk to cheese. Simione is a coach that identifies with his players, he buys exactly what he needs, he trains them hard, he plays and backs them. They'll jump through hoops of fire for him as he's a fantastic man manager.
Mourinho has spent £400m on a mishmash of players with no clear plan. He has critisized most of the players he's bought, leading to loss of trust between players and manager. He's lost the plot and the dressing room.
The difference between the two managers is massive, I'm amazed if people can't see that.

23 Sep 2018 23:18:47
Agree totally about a right sided player redman but how have Liverpool invested heavily and utd not been backed what are the figures since Jose's arrival . One of those statements can't be true .
I'm not advocating firing Jose unless position and points haul dictate it but we aren't at that point just yet .
I'm not sure what you mean what state would the club be in, of the big six we are the lowest already the saving grace is it's early doors and I'd like to give Jose time to change that as a burst of results would do so quickly, but I'd rather not die the death of a thousand cuts where every month we drop a few more behind until it's a chasm .

24 Sep 2018 07:02:42
There's more sense in this thread than there has been on this site for a while now. It is clear that Jose has been brought in to overhaul the squad but the board has stopped just short of buying the premium ingredients we need, and often spent big on big names who don't really want to be here but they sell shirts and look good in other teams. The tactic of not backing your manager to the hilt is always going to trickle down to the players and fans and performances, and it's not working for us. The sooner we have a person or people giving a clear vision for the club, regardless of who the manager is, whether it's a DoF or something else, the better.

23 Sep 2018 06:47:19
That was tough to watch. I know it was after a European game but there was a lack of energy and urgency. Fred is mentioned down the page but I thought he was excellent. Pogba was casual, and once again Lukaku just didn’t get into the game. I’m a big Jesse fan but he was anonymous and if anyone thinks Sanchez is improving then I don’t know what you are watching.

I think buying Sanchez was a dreadful error and it feels like the same for Pogba; an occasional good game doesn’t cut it for me.

The most frustrating thing is we had generated momentum with 3 away wins but looked complacent against a very good Wolves team. We need a couple of signings but we need to sign a leader, someone who will lead by example and not accept a lack of effort or poor attitudes. As has been said so often, we have very talented players but they simply don’t deliver. I realise ‘it’s just 1 game’ but it’s symptomatic of our season.

23 Sep 2018 08:48:54
Pogba is just so talented. He has bags and bags of ability, arguably the most naturally gifted midfielder in world football, but it's just not clicking for him. He might have to move for his own good.

23 Sep 2018 11:03:25
RR no he's not. He needs to stand out before he is named one of the best. Currently the only way he stands out is on instagram.

23 Sep 2018 13:25:02
Pogba doesn't have to move on. He is one of the most talented players on the planet and shows that in flashes. His touch for the goal was world class, his goal midweek was world class. We need to persevere with him, Fred seems to be forming a relationshio with him.

23 Sep 2018 13:52:38
Yeh Fred will be forming the relationship with Pogba in the dressing room see who can dance the best that's about it.

23 Sep 2018 13:57:33
I agree with you on Sanchez AJH but I'm puzzled by how poor he looks in the team. Such a talented player but he has been bobbins since he joined.
I can't believe it's actually him sometimes.
It's so disappointing because he is a fantastic player.
Is it because he just doesn't fit in, personal reasons or not happy or lost half a yard of pace. I was really excited when he joined and now I just wonder why I was.

23 Sep 2018 14:21:01
The issue is not just the players, it's the system. The way we play doesn't get the most out of our players.

The problem we have is our defence isn't that strong, so we need a lot of cover and this leaves our atta ks toothless. We have talented people to both move the ball forward and deliver the final pass and finish, we just never have them in their best positions.


352 solves this problem. Midfield 3 of Matic, Fred, pogba with a back 3 should have us solid defensively, whilst allowing pogba and Fred the freedom to express themselves going forward without exposing us defensively. Width comes from Shaw and dalot, sanchez and lukaku upfront will hopefully get the best out of a very talented sanchez and give better service to lukaku.

Its a shame for martial, jese and rashford, but I'm not sold on any of them being good enough anyway.

23 Sep 2018 14:38:05
I like 3-5-2. Right now, I’d have Rash or Martial as the second striker, Sanchez has been. Why poor.