Manchester United Banter Archive August 24 2014

 

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24 Aug 2014 23:13:00
Would cuadrado still be a good signing with the imminent arrival of di maria

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Cant say I've seen much of him but the more wide men the better because our current crop barring januzaj are awful, can't beat a mean, can't cross, what's the point in them, there just passengers doing a job, were man utd you have to make things happen.

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24 Aug 2014 22:11:10
I think that there is definite room for optimism, and here is why.

Firstly, we are already playing somewhat better football - we are keeping possession much more than I have ever seen. Lots of possession further up the pitch, how much better will this make us when it isn't Cleverley that is pulling the strings? I also feel here that Mata needs to do more in terms of creativity - more adventurous through balls etc. But that will all begin to happen as Di Maria will run in behind more than RVP and Rooney do.

You also have to look at the side we put out. This Sunderland side have taken points regularly off the big sides including City and Chelsea and I am sure they will go on to do so throughout the season as together they are a very effective unit. Out of the side we put out 5 of the 11 will have regular first team starts: De Gea, Jones, Mata, Rooney and Van Persie - Januzaj came on and will be included a lot as one of our key players. But if you look at the other players: Smalling, Keane, Blackett, Young, Valencia, Cleverley and Fletcher will all be bit part players and we have players to replace most of them. Rojo to replace Blackett, Shaw to replace Young, Di Maria to replace Valencia, Carrick to take Fletcher's place and Cleverley will lose his position to Herrera. So when you look at it like that, we did fairly well and nearly one with what is barely even a second string team.

This system with better quality and importantly the odd injection of pace (Di Maria and Shaw) we will see results come thick and fast.

As a side note, considering we have Fellaini, Carrick, Herrera and nearly every central midfielder injured it says a lot about Kagawa's future (unless he is injured too).

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So fresh, you think the manager will use Di Maria in the wing-back position?

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I think he will be a forward with the ball and without the ball will drop back there yes.

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Fresh
50/60 mill for a wingback

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No he will be a winger, but will get back like you would expect a wint back too. That is why I think Rojo has come in as he can play left back too, Smalling/Jones can play right back. We will probably okay with three centre backs, with Di Maria and Shaw as wingers. However, Di Maria could just as easily take Mata's spot.

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Fresh
so he will play wingback

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25 Aug 2014 00:10:58
Personally I think he will play the robben role upfront. Alongside van persie and Rooney in behind in the sneijder role.

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I don't think Di Maria would play as a wing back. LVG has said in preseason he is playing with 2 strikers because he has better players in the striker position.

His Bayern Munich team played with two wingers that played with width, - Robben and Ribery. In the present formation that means playing with one less striker, + someone is going to have to come out the defence or midfield to fill the other wing position. Alternatively he may just play with one striker and give a free roaming wing role to Di Maria (should he sign!) We saw Robben filling this role in the world cup.

Personally I would like to see an LVG system with 2 wingers, giving one of those places to Januzaj.

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At the moment the best thing to do is play him in central midfield.

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24 Aug 2014 21:41:15
Are the last 2 games under performance down to lvg?
Should we be playing 3 cb with the cb we have .
if moyes was in charge would he be getting the blame.
we finished 7th last season do we look better than the teams tbat finished above us.
im interested in peoples opinions

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Blame has been put on everyone at the club over the last few years but IMO we should blame Fergie/Glazers more than anyone else for letting the squad get so average through lack of investment.
Up until now.

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24 Aug 2014 22:07:38
I agree if Moyes was in charge he'd be blamed. However, if we had Vidic commanding the 3 at the back, and Evra instead of Young. its quite a prediction but I think results may have been different.

That said, Moyes didn't change the formation too much. LvG has changed the whole look and is trying to change the style of play so giving him extra time by the fans who jump on the managers back - is understandable.

Also, from SAF to Moyes, its 1st to 7th. From Moyes to LvG - it will be hard to finish lower than 7th, fans aren't as expectant as they were shown the weaknesses of this team last season. Which may be another reason why people are probably complaining less about LvG, since they know he's trying to bring in players to fit his philosophy and getting rid of those who aren't up to it.

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I can see signs of things improving and more importantly I can see a plan. Moyes didn't seem to have a plan - that was the problem. I can't blame LVG playing with this system, he is trying to get the center backs in and he has selected it to accommodate our best two players. Ask this again in three months time when Di Maria has settled in, RVP and Rooney's partnership gets stronger, we have a fit Luke Shaw and hopefully a new box to box midfielder that will drive us forward and not play sideways balls. Then we will see results.

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JRED we don't have a left or right back fit so the three at the back are necessary. It's not LVG's fault that he inherited a team devoid of any midfield talent, clev and fletch today, not good enough but what can he do? Sunderland away is always tricky and with the loss of confidence I actually thought we would lose today. It's tough at the moment but LVG will be given time and that's what it is going to take.

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Gotta admit I blame fergie for most of it, its his players cleverly is good enough for the championship not a team that want top 4 and so many other players are not good enough and they are HIS players

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24 Aug 2014 22:29:29
That's all well and good, Fresh, but you and I both know, that some on here weren't giving our last manager three days, never mind three months.

Funny, they don't appear on here with the same regularity after poor results from LVG's team.

Maybe it's something to do with the realisation that this is an average team, with a couple of stars in it, as opposed to the manager.

I doubt Klopp, Pep or Claudio could do much better at this moment in time.

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Dishfort red
Lvg decided to play 3 at the back do you think we will play 4 when shaw and raf are fit?
What midfield did moyes inherit, one with out mata and fellaini and herrera.
Herbie
Im with you

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Steviek
Im with you to

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I still find any semblance of blaming SAF to be ridiculous. He won the league comfortably with the squad he had in his last season and we were competitive on all fronts up until that point. The squad wasn't great when SAF left it but it was more than good enough for him. Why should he have spent money when he didn't need to?

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StevieK

It is actually very different because we believe in what LvG is trying to do and he has a CV that tells us he knows what he is doing. Similar to when SAF arrived I know it will come good. Enough has been said about the last incumbent and he patently didn't deserve to be appointed but LvG has inherited a team lacking confidence from last years disastrous campaign.

We can all see players are needed and LvG says the things we can all see instead of pretending it was great. There is a world of difference from last season and I think there will be a notable improvement on it

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Herbie

I think you are right there is some blame on SAF for where we are. A failure to spend what was needed, the poorly handled transition and choice of successor. Some blame lies with Gill for what appeared terrible planning on the transition plus he went at the same time as SAF which was an unbelievable decision. Everyone knows my thoughts on what the Glazers have done to the club but if they fund the big deals now, then it also points more at SAF refusing to change his beliefs in buying top players. I always felt SAF wanted a close tight unit with everyone working together in an old fashioned way. He wouldn't change to the end and I think he wasn't comfortable handling major world stars.

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25 Aug 2014 10:33:24
Just out of interest, Red Man, how long does LVG get from you?

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StevieK

He has all the qualifications for the job so I am relaxed and comfortable watching an expert at work for as long as it takes

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100% agree with Red Man on LvG. This is a manager that needs time because he knows what he's doing, Moyes didn't have a clear plan. The players didn't respect him and our season was a travesty last season and we are still suffering from it now.

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24 Aug 2014 21:33:11
The only bright thing about today's game was seeing Adnan come on and play in centre midfield. Such a delight when you see a player who is comfortable playing left or right wing, as a striker, in the hole or deeper in midfield. The boys a talent and I just hope with the arrival of Di Maria he isn't forgotten and thrown on the bench. Compared to Young and Valencia who have been wingers their whole career but for some reason don't know to cross or skin a player and always seem to be looking down at the ball at their feet. I cringe watching them play and just think how did a player like young become a footballer. Feel sorry for Kagawa was a star in the German League and for the last two years his career has not just stalled but declined.

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24 Aug 2014 21:12:54
Putting aside for now the obvious weakness in CM and CB I think most people would agree that the our left had side needed a big improvement. With Shaw, Rojo and likely Di-Maria all to come into the squad the left side is about to become world class. However my concerns have now shifted to right hand side which I now think is our biggest weakness after CM.

If we only bring in two more players has widely suggested and one of them is a must have CM would you go for go for a CB or a RB/RWB as the last purchase?

I am starting to lead towards RB/RWB after seeing the first two games, because with Rafel out and as injury prone as he his I don't think any of the current squads are good enough. Valencia and Young are to poor in defence and their crossing is questionable and Jones and Small need to stick playing CB because they offer little going forward.
We at least have some good young talent coming through at CB and I would like to say the same about RB, but the fact we haven't seen anything or Varela or Janko is a bit concerning but i'm hoping one of them will get a run out against MK Dons.

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24 Aug 2014 20:34:47
Not so much panic just yet, we have 4 new faces to put in and improve the side we saw today and hopefully we will see Vidal join them, that way the entire team will have a different set up and a much faster feel to it.

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We will keep suffering while we are playing 3 at the back and fletcher/carrick/cleverly in midfield

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24 Aug 2014 20:27:07
With the imminent arrival of Di Maria, does anyone else think this might signal the end of the 3512 system?

It seems to me that LVG wants to play Mata, Rooney and Van Persie in the same side; and with the arrival of Di Maria - unless LVG plans to use him as an attacking wing-back - I can't see how LVG will fit all these players into that system. I suppose Mata could drop deeper, but I seriously doubt LVG would use Mata in that role. Thus it seems to me that we might see the manager revert back to his tried and tested 422 system, which would allow for all the above players to be used in their natural positions. I suppose it would be more like a 4213 system, with Mata spearheading a three man midfield.

I expect we will learn a lot when he picks the team for the Burnley game.

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Not sure about the 422 system but the rest seems about right.

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"tried and tested 433 system" that should have read.

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24 Aug 2014 21:24:21
If we had not been forced through injuries to play today without a single left back or right back in the squad, I would question if we would have played 3-5-2 and all?
It didn't exactly play out as planned in the first game. I think 3-5-2 has always been due to the players available and not because LVG prefers it.

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24 Aug 2014 20:22:11
Went to match today (live in Sunderland for my troubles) and well Blackett was by far the best player on the field Mata looked a class above the rest of the midfield but that's not to hard .
Also off topic so appologies, can anyone recommend a real nice place to eat in Manchester on a evening . Went to San Carlos before which was nice but wanting to try somewhere different. I Back again next week and was going to treat the Mrs.

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Blackett was good.

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Try Solitas in the northern quarter

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Try rio, s place rosso or jamie olivers over the road.if you want something a bit different try bem brasil on ancoats lane if you like every type of grilled meat and as much as you want off the traditional brazilian grill :)

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25 Aug 2014 09:27:35
If you want a nice place to take the OH, don't go to Rosso. You're shipped in, seated, rushed and it isn't good service. Food is alright, service is shocking.
Ben Brazil is supposedly more for a lads night out.
Wish I could remember the chinese I went to one time but had a few too many shandy's. was amazing!

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24 Aug 2014 19:47:17
I don't know what everyone else thinks but in my opinion we need to play our strongest team on Tuesday and try to smash MK Dons and hopefully get some confidence building up because if we don't win that game heads will have to roll

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24 Aug 2014 19:45:51
said in a yea i'd also love Pele and Maradona context, for me this means it never going to happen, hopefully it's not too late for carvalho, he'd boss our midfield for 10 years

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Meant for a below convo, I Obviously mean lvg comments after the game when he mentioned messi and vidal

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24 Aug 2014 19:04:38
I think we should be confident re Vidal. Not just from LVG's latest comments, but if we are willing to spend such money on Di Maria, then one would assume we are willing to splash the cash for Vidal, who is much more necessary. He seems available and I think we will get him this week.

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24 Aug 2014 19:51:45
No doubt the club has the money, but the question is, are the owners willing to splash out the cash on another stellar signing after spending so much of it on Di Maria? Or would they rather bring in two players for that cash - e.g. Blind and De Jong? (random examples)

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Yes, I think they are. Every man and his dog knows that we are in desperate need of a CM. If we are willing to spend that amount of money on Di Maria then I think we will be willing to spend the necessary amount on Vidal.

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The important thing is don't lose heart we will be ok as gds says our next four games are winnable

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24 Aug 2014 21:15:45
The last 2 games should have been winable

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24 Aug 2014 18:56:26
I've always been a fan of fletcher but his best days are gone, time to say goodbye to him, cleverly, valencia, young and smalling. blackett and jones did ok but keane looks a fair way off yet. sadly, behind our front 3 we are very poor.we have dropped so far behind chelsea, city pool and arsenal we are going to have to be very patient for a long while yet.i only hope the glazers can see how far behind we are falling that they back the manager with the money he needs to stop the rot.the immediate future looks bleak but with time and money I think that l v g could turn us around

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Smalling was fine until he got injured. The only defender willing to push forward with the ball.

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I didn't like Smalling's performance. Blackett was better than him defensively. Jones also had a good game.

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Until he got injured.
can he stay fit

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I don't understand peoples criticism of smalling. He is a top class 'defender, with defender being the operative word.

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24 Aug 2014 19:50:07
Thought he had a good first half

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Jones and Smalling and Evans are decent centre backs Rojo will be good but midfield has a glaring weakness

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Smalling cannot play in the centre of the 3 he looks so uncomfortable bringing the ball out we must sign a cb who is comfortable on the ball

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24 Aug 2014 18:34:35
LVG first time I have heard him say he likes Vidal., oh and messi.

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Putting him in the same bracket of Messi means one of two things - make it look like the most amazing signing ever OR it is impossible and we should all forget it.

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24 Aug 2014 18:53:19
he said he wanted a winger like Ronaldo or Dimaria last week.
:D :D
Is this Van Haals clue!

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24 Aug 2014 18:29:23
Di Maria's great and all that, but if we don't sign at least another defender and midfielder, then we are going to struggle again this season. Blind and Vidal, for me, is an absolute must. Probably another CB as well. Today wasn't great at all, but injuries really are killing us at the mo. Not too sure if this formation is going to work for us either, so hopefully we go to a 433 when we are done in the window. I think all of us are just going to have to be patient this year and hopefully see some progression for us to really challenge for the title next season (talking about this already, I know). Realistically, finishing in the top four would be a successful season, even though of course I want us to be going for the title, but this whole transition is probably going to take a bit more time than any of us envisioned. Fingers crossed ey!

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We have to have some perspective, injuries are killing us, it's a totally different system and the transfers haven't finished. From within the squad there is Evans, Carrick, Shaw, Rafael, Rojo and Herrera that would probably of all played today. Add to that Di Maria and that makes things look a lot more rosey.

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How quickly we are starting to sound like Liverpool fans next season we will compete. The sad truth is we have fallen so far behind in such a short space of time not one player in our squad would get a start for Barca, Madrid, munich, city or chelsea. Never seen a Utd side so disorganised at the back, or ineffective up front. Mata doesn't cut it for me a great player to have when u dominate teams and have a lot of possession, in this side he is a luxury player that we cannot afford. LVG needs to bite the bullet and admit this group of players will not achieve anything attempting to play 3-5-2. Needs to adopt 4-3-3 if that means dropping mata for a fast wide player so be it. We have spent a lot of money in the last 2 windows which is good but the worry thing is what we have bought for that money, we could have been in a good position with a decent squad instead we have paid ridiculous money for Mata, Shaw, Herrera, Fellani, and possibly Di Maria, the same amount of money we could have bought 10 players that would have been pushing for a place in this squad. My worry if we do sign a couple more players will be the depth of squad one or 2 injuries and we will be back to fletcher and cleverly. How far down the league table would u have to go to find a team that would start with that pairing how on earth have we come to this.

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I couldn't agree more, Fresh. We will be fine once we have everyone fit.

I actually thought we played well second half. Yes, we didn't create a great deal, but we totally dominated.

Adding players like shaw, Rojo and hopefully Di Maria, will add so much pace to the side.

I for one am not worried. I think we will see progress over the coming weeks and improved results.

The concerning thing for me today was Fletcher's performance. As much as I hate to admit it, but he has lost it. He is not good enough to be a first team regular now. We definitely need to get another CM in; someone who has some presence and power.

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The thing is sam that last season in a lot of games we dominated the problem is we do nothing with that possesion

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I think with more pace in the attack, we will will make better use of possession.

Our CM is piss poor. Can you imagine having two quality CM's with that amount of possession?

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Positive are that we are keeping the ball a lot better and that LVG knows what our short comings are - that is abundantly clear. When everyone is fit the only survivors of those who played today will be De Gea, Jones, Mata, Januzaj, Rooney and RVP. That means we are playing 5 players that we would't classify as 'first team' starters - players like Keane and Blackett are good young players - Valencia, Young, Cleverley, Fletcher etc will be nothing more than squad players.

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Yer I do agree Fresh!, when everyone's back, we will be a lot stronger. But what I'm getting at is, we are a season behind most of the top 5/6, due to our incompetence in the previous summer window. Instead of fixing what we needed to then, we have let it run into this season, and a trying to do it all now, with a week to go. I think we have added some alright players and will hopefully bring in a few more, I actually think if we get Vidal, he will be our most important player. Then in the next two windows, instead of trying to fix stuff, we can build with what we have already got. If all goes to plan, this time next year we could have a great squad, with the likes of Strooman/Hummels coming in as well. But as I stated earlier, Blind and Vidal are vital to this plan, but I do trust LVG a 100% and think he has a similar one. It's just a shame we didn't react quicker last year, but that's gone now

I hope you get what I'm trying to say anyways

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24 Aug 2014 19:52:19
Have to say I totally disagree with you jaimej79. I think Mata is truly class. Granted he didn't have his best game today but I think his performances so far have been good. He is a great number 10, one of the best in my opinion. You have listed the players we have signed and haven't given Mata a chance never mind the summer signings in Shaw and Herrera. Also you put in a player who hasn't even signed yet! Who are the 10 players you would have signed instead of the ones we have? I am not sure which formation is right for us but I think we need to calm down, take a breath and wait till the end of the transfer window and then see what van Gaals first team will look like. I am excited by the future and in players like Mata, Herrera, Shaw and possibly Di Maria it sure looks like its going to be fun

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If matas truly class why did chelsea sell him? because he didn't suit there style of play maybe we now have the same problem.

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24 Aug 2014 18:15:06
Well, disappointing again. Where do you start?

First off, my least expectation of LVG this season was that he'd finally make United exciting and enjoyable to watch again after last season.

That could've been a Moyes team out there. I am sick to death of this sideways zombie passing nonsense. Valencia to Fletcher, Fletch to Cleverly, Clev to Young, Young back to Clev, back to Fletch, opposition tackle and counter-attack.

This is midtable football and some of these players are midtable players I'm afraid. Fletcher, Cleverly, Young, Smalling to an extent. Boring, one-dimensional, weak and ineffective.

Rooney was terrible, RVP looked rusty. Defence looks an accident waiting to happen and no surprises, midfield was non-existent.

I hope the rumours are true, and Di Maria is one of three coming in.

Stick Shaw, Herrera, Di Maria, Rojo, Evans and 2 more signings in there and we'd look a lot healthier.

LVG truly has got his work cut out here. I also think 3-5-2 needs to go, I haven't liked what I've seen of it at all.

I could handle dropping points if we were somewhat entertaining in the process.

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I posted earlier I just can't see 3 at the back working its too many square pegs in round wholes again exactly what we didn't like fergie or moyes doing we have wingers in our squad not wing backs there is a massive difference

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I think the reason why we haven't bought a new defender is because we want to buy Di Maria to go back 4-3-3

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Wasn't great was it? But, if you swap Cleverley for Herrera, Fletcher for Carrick (yes, seriously), add in Rojo, play Januzaj from the start, hopefully Di Maria, welcome Evans back then we have a completely different team. That assuming no top quality CM is signed as well.

My main observation is lack of pace and urgency. We are playing quite far up the park but lack urgency. It's a new system, lots of new players and it will take time.

Just seen LVG interviewed, he really is a top bloke. When asked if he liked Di. Maria, he said "yes, but I also like Messi". Patince everyone, patience.

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Fletcher should be a last resort we all wanted him to come back but we need to face facts he just doesn't have it anymore

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24 Aug 2014 18:14:27
Well, I thought that Cleverley was one of our better players today. Mind you, that just says how rubbish the others were, not that Cleverley upped his game or anything!

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I fault cleverley was terrible. Only passed backwards and sideways. Struggled to win possesion back and looked so robust and predictable on the ball.
He adds nothing going forward.

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Cleverley was one of the worst on the field imo with Fletcher running him really close for that title.

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You can't be serious?/Cleverly needs to go and fast he is useless, in fact beyond useless.There should be apeople carrier waiting to take some of the players onto another club.We are playing some of the supposed easier teams at the minute what will happen when we start to come up against the likes of Chelsea, man city, arsenal, even Liverpool, everton Tottenham, the way we are playing now I dread it and the rrsult.Things need to change fast and players need to go and replaced.

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Cleverly was crap as usual but he was not the worst today by a long shot

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I thought so too Mike and it does speak volumes because he wasn't anything special today. I thought he actually did most of the right things but people will always get on his back because they having nothing better to do.

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Cleverly was dreadful, I must have been watching a different game, not as bad as fletcher though.

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24 Aug 2014 19:46:33
Always Cleverley huh? Wow, he may not be your cup of tea but cut him some slack. Is it his fault he's playing for Manchester United? No. LvG played him and he doesn't exactly go out there and walk about. He tries to do his bit, you can't say he isn't determined every time he steps out there.

At the end of the day, he plays for Manchester United. A club you guys support, and therefore should support Cleverley every time he puts the shirt on. You guys badmouth him as if he purposely goes out there to play bad.

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What just like we all should of supported bellion or djemba djemba etc

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The point of Mike B's first post was that Cleverley was not even among the worst, that is how bad we were today. He played well by his standards, which means very mediocre.

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24 Aug 2014 21:33:05
If they are playing, then yes support them. You're not the person judging their games or what they do in training - that's not your job. As a fan your first job is to support the team, and that means those players who are out there on the pitch, especially those giving it their all for the team.

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24 Aug 2014 21:59:08
Unless. they''re not trying, red79, which is unforgivable, then yes, you do support them. They're picked by the manager, and when they pull the red shirt on, you support them. Statements like that one of yours above, make you sound like a member of the 'prawn sandwich' brigade. Only supporting 'star' players.

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24 Aug 2014 18:13:06
Only managed to watch the last 25 minutes of the game but judging from what I saw that's probably a good thing.

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24 Aug 2014 17:28:18
Does anyone else think we need to bu a world class striker like falcao or cavani. Many will say cavani isn't great but for me he played well in he World Cup in terms of creativity.
Think he would suit prem league.? Chicarito would do well in a passing team like arsenal where he would come alive in the 18yard box

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There is nothing wrong with our strikers we just need to get the sodding ball to them

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Yes definitely. Rooney hasn't been on the pitch for the 3 games he has been captain as far as I'm concerned. Welbeck did more in 5 mins than RVP & Rooney did all game and yet he is the one being shipped out??

It's a waste having Mata play if we don't have any movement around him, our strikers are too slow and our midfield don't support -therefore Mata does nothing. It was the same last season. Having the spare man at the back is ridiculous when we create so little.

The 2 goals we have scored this season have both been tap ins, can't remember any real chance creation, yet the majority think we are good going forward!

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You could stick Pele upfront - but if Cleverley is the midfielder then he would be no better.

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Today there was no service to RvP and Rooney from the mid.

Valencia and Young are very bad crossers so there was no service from the wings too.

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Beast it wasn't a case of rooney going missing it is the supply young's crossing was woeful, valencia (who was ok today ) too often gets into a good crossing position then just plays a pass sideways fletcher today couldn't hit a cows ass with a banjo he was awful and cleverly is cleverly the pass is there everyone can see it but no sideways or backwards he just had nothing to feed off at all today add into that the slow pace we stutter up the pitch at its no surprise really

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I thought rooney played ok today .
rvp was poor but its his first game back .
The wings, cm and back 3 dear me .

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I find Valencia so frustrating he is big and strong and quick he should bully 90% of the full back in the league but he just seems scared to unleash himself unfortunately I feel he is one of those players that will just never be the same after a bad injury and now he deserves to be no more then a squad player

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Jred, it's no surprise to us that you thought Rooney played okay today :)

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The major problem is and has been for years the central midfield, however our strikers should also be creating their own chances at least now and again.

I'm totally aware that the service is shocking.

My point is Welbeck did more in 5 mins than the other two, it was similar last season. Obviously with quality service our strikers will perform much better, but we don't have that service, so Welbeck or a fast striker being signed is vital until we have a RWB, Shaw fit, Herrera back and another couple of world class players in the middle to add some penetration.

Even our stars are not playing well, irrelevant of the service they should be doing more when they have the ball. RVP not fit, but when is he ever 100% fit?

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How can anyone blame our strikers is beyond me? Lol and what did Welbz do?

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Merf were you watching a different game to the rest of us today. because to say Rooney did ok today is redicilous. He was awful his 1st touch is awful

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Honestly our back 3 where all over the place and for me look like they are still trying to get there heads round the system.
i actually thought tyler and jones played ok individually but as part of a 3 struggled.

midfield was what it looked on paper poor .
rvp was poor no surprise when he got subbed but its his first game in a while . ( not just competitive but any game )
I though rooney played ok dropped off worked hard and linked up ok but he was linking play to poor wing options poor cm and a non existent strike partner .

of course syd best and shaps will blame rooney buts what new.
the tactics and various other tjings where far worse

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The player I felt sorry for today wa kagawa how must he feel having to sit there and watch fletcher and cleverly play

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Jred, Van Persie was always only going to play an hour today. It's his first game back.

I am not blaming Rooney for anything, he needs better wingbacks and midfield behind him.

But it's no surprise that to YOU, Rooney played Okay. Van Persie actually done more.

Rooney and Van Persie (when fit) will be fine when they have better players around them.

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Red7
the player I felt sorry gor was di maris

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Lol

syd come on I argued rooney was still a good player and would stay at united . He has a long term contract and is captain .
you spent years arguing he was finished and would leave .
so I will go with my opinion over yours, I honestly didn't think he played that bad today.

you will be trying to argue cleverly is a top player next

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I believed Rooney was going to be sold by SAF and I still believe that would have been the case had SAF not retired.

I have always said Rooney was a top player (the archives will back that up), but that we have seen the best of him. I still believe that.

We have 100% seen the best of Rooney. Still a top player though.

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Sydney what did van persie do that was more? He was poor. I think another one who gets off a bit lightly is mata fair enough he scored but he slows the pace of the game too much and can't beat a man. I honestly would like to see kagawa instead of mata. For me he's part of the reason we have to play this formation to fit him into the side. as I keep saying he should never have been bought he wasn't needed, and in fairness hasn't set the world alight since he joined.
We need to add pace to this squad and go 4-3-3.

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Gman
rvp was poor imo but I can understand why, he hasn't played.
mata for me is an issue and I have explained why ( before we signed him )
I can see why jose sold him

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Gman, I noticed how he had a go at weaving his way through four Sunderland defenders instead of passing it back to the midfield. I also noticed his through-ball to Mata which Mata should have taken first time and if it wasn't fluffed by Mata would have been a nice assist. I noticed how he was giving the CB's a real tussle where it would be either one of them on the floor or him on his ass. I think he was far from poor, not great admittedly, but he done more than a fully fit Rooney did. If we add Rojo, Evans, Shaw, Herrera, hopefully Vidal & Di Maria then we will get the best out of Rooney and Van Persie.

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Syd
no he never, rvp was poor today its no surprise to anyone you are trying to make out he was great

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I don't think either Rooney or Van Persie were poor, I don't think either played well, but I think a less fit Van Persie did more in one hour than Rooney did in 90. That's all I'm saying. I think he edged it slightly. I don't see where Jred can say Van Persie was poor and Rooney was "okay". I think both were okay, but I was happier with Van Persie's performance considering it's his first game back.

What gets me mad is MU on tour played some nice football, not great, but decent football. Rooney was great, but as soon as we hit the EPL, we froze again.

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24 Aug 2014 21:16:04
Ok Sydney we'll agree to disagree. I only saw his poor first touch when he should have had a go with his right in the box. Him lying on the floor half the time. Not willing too close down the opposition.

I hope they both do come good but I think there needs to be pace up there and that's something neither Rooney or rvp have or mata for that matter.

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24 Aug 2014 22:06:55
One small thing I did notice about Wayne today.

He and Blackett were tracking back to cover the Sunderland right winger. Blackett pointed for Rooney to hang back and cover the supporting Sunderland player. Blackett made the challenge and the ball ricocheted back to the supporting Sunderland player, who received it unchallenged, and the attack could continue. Why? Because Wayne ignored Blackett's instructions, and carried on running to close down the winger.

That small moment sums up everything that annoys me most about Wayne on the pitch - his lack of tactical discipline, this schoolboy desire to do everything. Even a youngster like Blackett showed more intelligence in that moment.

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24 Aug 2014 16:52:20
Jaysus al Ill have a bit of that?

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24 Aug 2014 15:36:22
I fully expected cleverly to play today yet I still cannot help feeling dissappointed when I see his name on the team sheet

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Great support there.

The club are so much better for having supporters who don't actually support.

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I realy think we need a mass clear out now. I agree with scholes we need at least 5 players. Young would be ok in a side lke hull. Same for wellbeck. Never a world beater but ok for someone outside top 8

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24 Aug 2014 16:31:43
Jose, he is not United quality.

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Jose do one I support this team with a passion which is exactly the reason I am not happy with cleverly playing I want the best for my team and cleverly is average at best after watching the 1st half it appears we are going backwards not forwards Lvg may well be the right manager for us but he must stop playing 3 at the back it simply will not work I understand why he wants to play it and when he explains it you can understand the logic in it but for whatever reason it just isn't working I know we are only 1 1/2 games into this season but the only team worse then us so far is QPR

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Totally agree a fan should have an opinion not blind faith.

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24 Aug 2014 17:13:54
I think it's more Fletcher slowing us down more than Cleverly. Losing possession and passing just not right

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And i'm not just picking on cleverly because fletcher and young have been even worse then him today

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I could name all the players due to go but I just can't be bothered because we all know who the are

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On my early post I forgot about crystal palace so there are 2 teams worse then us but my point still stands we need new signings asap and also our injured players back then we need to go back to a flat back four because with this team in this formation if we were to play chelsea for example we would be absolutely demolished

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Fletcher was shocking today I understand teething problems with a new manager, formation etc but a few of our players couldn't even complete a simple 5yd pass to feet

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Red79, it's not just teething problems mate. It's still the hangover from last season. MU are nervous on the ball which comes from confidence issues. Dwelling on the ball comes from confidence issues. Beast talks about the strikers being too slow and he has a point, but they aren't any slower than they were 14 months ago. MU are suffering with confidence and that can only improve with new players. New signings will inspire the team. let's not forget Shaw, Rojo, Herrera & Di Maria would all go straight into the team and improve the side. Van Persie got an hour under his belt today, he will be fitter for the Burnley game. There's a mixture of issues at the moment, lack of quality in the team, confidence issues which is causing nervousness, adapting to a new formation and being in a transition. We will improve on next season no doubt, but like I have said we won't start to see the best of the team until Christmas time IMO. I still believe that.

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Syd but all that perseverance would count for nothing if we are out of the top 4 race by Christmas.

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I understand what your saying Syd but the 3 at the back is just not going to work if it was Lvg's plan all along he should of kept rio to play in the middle and yes I 100% agree rojo, shaw, herrara and hopefully di maria will greatly improve us but unless we bring in a very good experienced cb and a midfield general it will make no difference because we will still be weak in critical areas at the moment no team fears us because we are easy to play against and this is from a tactical point of view not playerwise

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Red79, we will need to be patient, hope for the good signings and hope we do not suffer anymore injuries. We will be okay.

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Syd
the problem is our 11 players on the pitch aren't that good .
even full of confidence we are not as good as city and co or munich and co.

we keep struggling and you keep making the same excuse

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Thats a lot of hope Syd

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So MU aren't struggling with confidence then Jred? So MU's confidence didn't skydive when SAF retired?

I have said we need players, that we are still trying to adapt to a new formation and we are low on confidence.

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Syd
of course we are struggling with confidence these players this team are not good enough tho and for me a few of the know it.
This team won the title rubbish is looking daft .
to think you argued this squad was better than 94 or 99

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I said the team isn't good enough. I have said we need 3-4 top notch signings or the past three seasons. I guess you keep ignoring that though don't you.

Last season's team was the same team that won the league. That's a fact. Bit daft to say otherwise.

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Syd
Just because the team won the league doesn't mean it a great team, good but not great .
to argue its still a title winning team while other teams have improved is daft .
which is why this team was 7 .
really better squad than 94 and 99 .
Shows what you know

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We played some decent football in the preseason tour, I know it's not competitive, but we passed it well and we had tempo. Rooney was great on preseason, our best player by far, but as soon as we step onto the field in an EPL game, we seem to have gone back to last season's form. No tempo, poor passing. I just feel there is a mental block there at the moment, a massive drop in confidence, but of course we need players. I have always said that.

Anyway let's leave it at that as this isn't going anywhere and it's getting quite tedious now.

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Syd
94 99

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24 Aug 2014 14:56:28
Given the scenario that we do not get Vidal which is looking increasingly likely now what other targets do we have?


1. De Jong

Ok know LvG's formation very well and is a pretty decent player and at a reasonable price too.

Has his fair share of red cards though and will turn 30 in Nov.


2. Blind

Utility man who can cover 3 positions. LCB-LB-CDM.
Price being reported also looks reasonable but does he have the physicality to boss the midfield of a premier league side?


3. Guarin

Up until yesterday I thought he was a winger so my knowledge about him is limited.

Any regular watcher care to elaborate?


Apart from these I think Dembele could be good for our mid. I know he is not entirely a defensive mid but I remember lot of us wanted us to sign him before he moved to Spurs and now he seems to have fallen down the pecking order behind Bentaleb and Capoue. I know even Sandro maybe available but i'd prefer Dembele.

That is obviously if we cannot get Vidal.

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I think Khedira and Carvalho will be in the mix too. For me it's Vidal or bust though. If we're willing to pay double what Di Maria is worth we should be willing to pay £40m for Vidal (which for me is actually a pretty fair valuation).

Vidal > Carvalho > De Jong > Khedira > Guarin > Blind

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That was a de Jong type of game today. He'd of had a right battle with Cattermole, who had a very good game. He totally bossed our midfield. Says it all unfortunately. It's fortunate we are not playing any title contenders just yet, we'd be torn apart. Januzaj should start instead of Mata if you ask me.

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24 Aug 2014 14:49:50
Ed002, I know it isn't directly related, but have Chelsea and City finished their business? Or are they still looking to make some movements in the next 7 days? Thanks.

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{Ed002's Note - It depends. Both would still like to do something and have folks running around trying to make things happen with specific players - but neither will buy just for the sake of it. Sometime later I the week it will be clearer.}

"but neither will buy just for the sake of it"


Both seem to have done that a lot in the past.

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{Ed002's Note - Why do I bother?}

Haha apologies Ed.

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24 Aug 2014 14:11:57
ED do you have any idea about the transfer fee we are paying for Di Maria?


Read a news that it'd be around 75 million pounds. Surely for that amount you expect a player who can score 25 goals and give you 15 assists at the very least.


And where does this signing leave Januzaj?

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{Ed002's Note - Just ignore the money Mumbai - I have explained a little in an earlier post.}

MUMBAI, (and sorry Ed), if the price quoted is £75M we should walk away. Forget how much money we have, we are being mugged. That's way beyond what we should be paying

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{Ed002's Note - This is why we don't discuss money.}

Got it Ed, thanks.

But how do you think we will accommodate Januzaj once Di Maria comes in?

I don't buy the argument that "its a squad game and everyone will get game time".

That kinda argument would work for the likes of Chicharito, Welbeck, Young, Nani but Januzaj should be starting week in week out.

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{Ed002's Note - Take it to the Teams page and others will tell you.}

24 Aug 2014 13:53:44
Ed002 thanks for your updates, I hope now that will bring to an end the constantly repeated questions you have to field.
Lets sit back and wait to see what business we can complete over the next 7 days there will be lots of comings and goings none of which we can control but you can be sure that the club and manager will be doing all they can

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{Ed002's Note - Thanks Ken.}

24 Aug 2014 16:34:46
I'd like to thank the Ed's too, especially Ed002 you do a great job fielding our repetitive queries 24-7.

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24 Aug 2014 14:24:38
Does anybody know what the restrictions are in terms of the number of non EU passport holding players teams are allowed to field in the premiership?

Valencia, kagawa, rojo, Anderson, Hernandez, raffael are all non eu (do any of them hold eu passports, not sure).

Di Maria, benatia (possibly holds a French passport), Freddy guarin, Vidal all non eu players. I accept that several of the names above May be moved on this summer.

Another angle to consider is around internationals. Potentially Having so many South Americans could be detrimental. Under fergie Valencia often did not play after having travelled back from South America due to being fatigued. Not great if half the team can't play or play jet lagged

Not saying I don't want South American players. Just something to consider.

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17 non home-grown over the age of 21 I believe.

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Don't forget we have a lot of English and European players aswell

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{Ed002's Note - As Syd noted "non home grown" is the relevant category.}

Hopefully as an exception the editor will let me post this list. These are the current players in our squad who are over 21 and non home grown.

De Gea, Rojo, Mata, Lindegaard, Hernandez, Van Persie, Herrera, Valencia, Kagawa, Fellaini, Anderson, Di Maria?

If Di Maria signs we only have 12 and Lindegaard, Fellaini & Anderson are not guaranteed to stay. So we have plenty of room for more non home grown signings. It's not an issue for MU.

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Also worth noting that Rafael is classed as a homegrown player.

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24 Aug 2014 15:17:50
Thanks for clearing that up for me. Your input is much appreciated.

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24 Aug 2014 13:24:20
I hope that we don't buy Di Maria. I think the prices being mentioned are far too high. I would prefer Reus even if we had to wait on him regaining full fitnes

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24 Aug 2014 14:16:50
So we complain when we don't sign world class players then we complain when we do. It's like we just like complaining, it can't be that though can it?

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Forget the prices Pip mate, simple question:

Di Maria in a MU shirt

or

no Di Maria?

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24 Aug 2014 14:37:18
What makes you think reus wants to come?.Di maria wants to come supposedly and are you paying for him,why does it bother you how much he costs.The fee is today's market and to get the best players you pay the going rate.Also if you believe the reports reus has already rejected a move to us.

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Syd -

Di Maria in a United Shirt

or

Vidal and Reus in Manchester United shirts?

May be a better question if there's any truth to the £75m transfer fee. Heck; Vidal or Di Maria?

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Pip is it your money?

No, so don't worry about price tags.

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R7, we are not going to sign Reus.

Vidal & Di Maria

or

Just Vidal?

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Syd - Why exactly are we not going to sign Reus? We were interested earlier in the summer. If Barcelona decide to look elsewhere than I see no reason why he wouldn't be open to the move.

If deals for Vidal and our other targets were entirely independent of a deal for Di Maria - the price wouldn't really be too much of an issue (other than the embarrassment of having to massively overspend). Unfortunately - and as you yourself quite rightly pointed out - there's every chance that signing Di Maria would eat up most of our funds leaving us having to compromise the quality of our signings in positions which are much more integral to our success (CB and CM).

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R7, the editor has already confirmed the price is well lower than the €80m (£64m) price quoted.

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We have already had this discussion R7, point is I think you should trust LvG. If he wants Di Maria then he's the manager and it's his decision. He will know if he can buy X, Y & Z players if we sign Di Maria or not. He isn't stupid.

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We need to add quality to the team and di maria is that.
I think he will rip it uo

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Why are you bothered when it isn't your money?

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24 Aug 2014 10:50:26
hi ed was wondering is there any news on any of the younger players going out loan for united
thanks

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{Ed002's Note - Nothing I am aware of right now.}

24 Aug 2014 12:04:44
Did anyone read the scouse page yesterday? Pure comedy gold! We haven't even signed Di Maria yet and the bitterness has already begun.

Here are some of my favorites :-

1. "He cannot last even 70 mins in a game"

(talking about the same player who lasted a full 120 and broke the game open in the second half of extra time in the UCL final and never stopped running, taking players on and tracking back for the entire game)

2. "Balotelli is less of a gamble than Di Maria"

(Yes you read that right. I almost feel sorry, he is being serious, not even joking!)

3. "Sterling is already a better player."

(He has potential, but already better?)

And then remaining is filled with cliches like he is "lightweight" and has "no end product".

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A month ago there were people saying Sturridge is better than Balotelli and that they wouldn't want him anywhere near their club for the £14m being reported at the time. The exact same people are now calling him world-class and £16m is a bargain. Don't get me wrong £16m could be a bargain, but the reason he is suddenly a world-class player to the one's who were putting him down 3-4 weeks ago, is simply because he is now signing for Liverpool. The fickle football fan.

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I find it hilarious!

Apparently Lallana is a steal at £25M but Di Maria (a player who is at least 5 times better) isn't worth double his value and apparently Sanchez isn't a good player either.

They've done well to get Balotelli, and he may only be on a £90K Basic but his Bonuses are going to level him with the likes of Rooney, Torres, etc.

I do feel sorry for the scousers though. We've got the most damaging front line in the EPL with RVP, Mata, Rooney, Januzaj and now Di Maria.

And they're sitting there with that fairly average squad thinking they're going to win the world cup.

Laughable really.

my all time favorite Liverpool post though was last week, apparently they're going to finish in the top 2, have really good cup runs in both competitions (winning one) and a minimum of a Semi-final UCL spot.

All with that talented squad .

Over-rated manager, Over-rated team.

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One of the biggest attributes of ADM is his workrate. His tracking back is exceptional and that is what all players at MU are expected to do. Another one of his attributes is his versatility. He can play pretty much anywhere on the pitch bar CB, DM and GK. Then add in his assists, which RvP and Rooney will lap up and the goals he will score himself. At 26 we have finally agreed to pay top dollar for a player entering his prime.

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So Di Maria very close now could we finally land Vidal this week or Guarin?

I really hope its Vidal and Blind to finish off.

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Di Maria will be like Robben or Ribery by the age of 28 we will have a fully cooked winger to terrorise defenders.

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I'm not going to get into a slagging match with Liverpool fans, but after last season I think you have to take Rodgers seriously. He took a chance on Sturridge and it turned out well. Contrary to many on this site's expectations Liverpool scored over 100 goals and nearly won the championship.

Balotelli is an unquestioned talent and if he can turn him around, it will unquestionably give them someone who can replace the goal scoring potential that Suarez provided, albeit in a different style. At the price quoted - 1/3rd of di Maria - it has to be a good gamble.

Our problem is that we have some glaring deficiencies, serious lack of balance and an uncertain future. It puts us in a weak negotiating position compared to the current top 4 or 5 who may want to add to their squads but can walk away from the deal if they feel they are being taken advantage of.

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Take Liverpool seriously? why?

They had a new system, which was fairly unused by the EPL and had players that could execute it well, but the biggest plus factor they had is that they had an element of surprise, nobody knew how to defend against it.

It's 1 year later and teams will be far more wise to the way Liverpool play.

I fully expect them to challenge for 4th, but the loss of Suarez and the lack of quality signings is going to cost them big time.

I think Sturridge will crumble under the pressure and their saving grace (if they have one) will likely come in the form of young Sterling.

that said, I can't see them playing 2 up front with the attacking signings they've made.

and with Balotelli likely costing close to £150K inc. bonuses I can't seem them dropping him or moving him outwide.

So for me, Sturridge and Sterling will probably be wide players with Coutinho/Lallana behind Balotelli.

Does any of that really sound threatening?

I mean it's good forward line but it's nothing a well organised defence an't keep quiet.

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24 Aug 2014 15:42:40
There's a reason they got him for a bargain 16m. Top players, especially strikers, with no baggage, don't go for that sort of money.

I like him as a personality, but I wouldn't have him anywhere near my club - far too much hassle.

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They paid 35 million for Carroll, isn't that enough and if luiz is worth 50 million I think we done alright with di Maria

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24 Aug 2014 11:32:36
Isn't that great, our shiny new signing Rojo may be standing trial for attacking his neighbour with a bottle and he may even face prison. Great news.

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Fresh, we've all done it mate. He will get a caution and that will be the end of the matter.

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And we were worried about balotelli

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24 Aug 2014 12:07:18
No worries it was only a scouser

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24 Aug 2014 12:27:15
Wasn't this bottle incident in 2010, when he was at Spartak Moscow?

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24 Aug 2014 12:40:00
its a 4 year old incident, if he had to be punished for it, it would have happened sooner

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News flash, Sydney has bottled someone haha.

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Fresh, we all have a history mate, but I think this Rojo story is just mischief making by anti-United journalists.

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And in the the Man Utd board right now Ferguson says were did I leave them brown envelopes

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{Ed002's Note - What matters is "home grown".}

24 Aug 2014 10:44:07
If the di Maria deal goes through, will this be the first time we have bought a player off Real Madrid? The only other one I can think of was Laurie Cunningham, but that was just a loan deal if I remember correctly.

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24 Aug 2014 10:00:33
"Di maria misses Real Madrid training today "
Now they are just playing with our feelings

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24 Aug 2014 07:32:37
Nani made his Sporting debut last night and showed what a terrible mistake we have made by loaning him out. Will we ever learn?

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Should have kept him. I've said all along he's better than DeMario :)

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He missed a penalty, got a yellow card and was taking off. He got enough chances at united.

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24 Aug 2014 10:12:01
Betty,

You don't know how delighted I am we are signing a player with such a simple name to spell!

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GDS,
You read the page a lot, so I wouldn't take that for granted!
Some people could spell B&Q wrong ;)

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24 Aug 2014 04:19:26
Ed002
have you heard anything to cement what Guillem Balague is saying?

Id like your insight into it.
cheers

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{Ed002's Note - I have no idea what Balague has said.}

24 Aug 2014 03:54:49
I wonder whether Di Maria signing could help convince some other targets like Vidal or Benatia of the "project" and convince them to join us, or Vidal to put in a transfer request? Its a long shot though.

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Let's hope so!

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I don't think Vidal not joining has anything to do with Champions League.

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@Mumbai Boy

From what the Editor has told us, it has everything to do with him not putting in a transfer request.

They want Hernandez though, hopefully we can use that to our benefit.

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24 Aug 2014 03:40:24
There have been talks with Lucas Silva of Corinthians and even his agebt confirmed he met with some United people abd were expecting further negotiations.
He plays deeper-midfield and would solve our problems if he is good enough.
But would he get a work permit? And isn't a risky signing if we fails to get a work permit abd we sign nobody but him for the midfield position.
What are his chances of getting a permit?

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24 Aug 2014 08:59:41
He is from Cruzerio??

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{Ed002's Note - He is indeed.

Just to re-iterate, there are clubs and third party "representatives" of clubs that are speaking to Lucas Silva's agent and suggesting prices that could be obtained if they were to be authorised to act for the player - and there has been one club (not MU) speaking directly with Cruzeiro. The bottom line is there is lots of interest including from Manchester United and Chelsea from England, but that interest is matched from Italy, Spain and Portugal. Whether or not something could happen in the coming days remains to be seen. He is not someone who would walk in to the side for this season.}

24 Aug 2014 01:08:50
I think Di Maria will be a fantastic signing if we can pull it off.

Remember a few days ago I posted about my dads mate has a holiday home next to Ed Woodwards in Angelsey, as I said a £50m signing will be announced in the coming days, this is obviously the signing.

I hope there's more to come.

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24 Aug 2014 05:04:20
Thats cool mate but its very easy to say that a big signing is imminent and just give a general time frame when we are constantly being linked to these high level players. Same game a lot of these ITKs use to make themselves look knowledgeable when really they are clueless as the rest of us

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24 Aug 2014 09:05:08
Cnk,

I think if stand_ united was going to make something up he could have come up with something a bit better than he did. And this post isn't exactly him bragging, just saying he's glad he was right. Bit of a childish response mate, and clicking agree 3 times on your own post makes you no better.

Agree5 Disagree7

24 Aug 2014 00:55:57
So apperantly for the interview Guillem Balague gave for sky sports (you can find it on their site) he said Di Maria is not going to be our last signing. He said:
It seems he won't be the last signing that Manchester United will do.He hasn't been signed YET but it will all take place very EARLY next week.

Believable3 Unbelievable0

24 Aug 2014 00:08:23
Until I see di Maria holding up our famous no 7 shirt I don't trust these 'sky sources' or balague either I'm sure he said last year we were signing fabregas? Do you think we will manage to get a central midfielder in though ed before the window shuts? Vidal, carvalho, guarin or khedira?

Believable4 Unbelievable0

{Ed002's Note - It is the same question over and over - I am sick of it.}

I've heard that Man United have already agreed personal terms with Vidal and just need to agree on a transfer fee with Juventus. Not sure how true this is, but I heard it from someone who was correct about Di Maria.

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It must be hard/annoying for the eds when we keep asking the same question over and over because I've followed this site for years and it's expanded hugely from a general football site to specific team pages and then they've expanded them pages to even more easy to use forums. So whilst I keep asking the same questions to myself and as the window closes in I check this site for answers hourly please use the search functions for the questions that were asking regularly because I hope the eds don't get peed off n sack it off it was turd when one of our eds abstained from posting last transfer window!

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24 Aug 2014 00:47:28
Just ignore it ed, I think they just get a kick out of winding you up!

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