Manchester United Banter Archive February 24 2015

 

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24 Feb 2015 23:12:31
As much as I love Ronaldo and I bloody love Ronaldo, this guy Messi is for me a little above him. Ronaldo is a physical marvel, powerful, athletic and scores a hatful of goals. He is pretty much your ideal type of player.

But this guy Messi. He is small, not the quickest and not very athletic yet he can do things with the ball that should theoretically be physically impossible given his stature and attributes. The way he glides and the way he keeps the ball so close to his body at all times even in the tightest areas is unreal. I have seen nothing like him.

I read a few months ago that folk on here were saying that Messi has peaked, he fades away on the big stages and isn't what he used to be. Yet over those same months I have seen him bag goal after goal, create goals and lead Barca to many victories almost single handedly. Plus he got the golden ball at the WC finals.

I also don't buy into the fact that Messi and Ronaldo have had great players around them. Yes they have had top teammates but it can also be argued that both players make the players around them great also. Messi and Ronaldo make space, create chances and drop into holes to help the team (especially Messi).

Even Paul Scholes stated the other week that Messi was better than anything he has came across in his entire career. He went as far as saying that before the Champions League final he prayed Messi would take up as many positions away from him as possible.

I know we all love Ronny but Messi is something else.

Believable12 Unbelievable4

{Ed007's Note - (headbang)

25 Feb 2015 07:40:15
JMB, I love Messi and he was influencing games more thanRonaldo but in the least couple of years I think the roles have bee reversed. Whether Messi has stalled or Ronaldo has simply gone onto another level is up for debate but right now, I think Ronaldo is able to take a game by the scruff of the neck more than Messi is.

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25 Feb 2015 08:44:30
If we were to list individual traits, it would be interesting to see people's opinions. Mine may be a little biased as a Cr7 fan but I'd say :
Pace/Speed Cr7
Headers: Cr7
Dribble: Messi
Strength/power: Cr7
Both Feet: Cr7
Shot accuracy : Messi
Shot Power: Cr7
Control: Messi
Freekicks: Cr7
Defence : Cr7

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mbd              

25 Feb 2015 09:03:01
If I could only watch one more player ever, it would be Messi. If I needed one player for my team, it would be Ronaldo.

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25 Feb 2015 09:13:31
The simple point is there's lots Messi lacks which Ronaldo has in his locker, but there's nothing Messi can do that Ronaldo cannot. The best player in world football currently is Ronaldo. The last few years Ronaldo has overtaken Messi.

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25 Feb 2015 09:20:42
I would go for messi although i think he has got lazy .
He had a go for 45 minutes yesterday but he could do that for 90.

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25 Feb 2015 09:33:39
MBD that is exactly my point. You look at all the attributes and the majority of them Ronaldo is probably superior in. Ronaldo is a physical marvel. But Messi is small, puny even. The way he influences games with a lack of physicality and power is baffling. I personally believe that we will see the likes of Ronaldo again (he is the epitome of hard work) whereas I can't see a replicate of a player in the form of Messi.

I love Ronaldo. He is on par with Scholesy as the greatest I have ever seen in a red shirt but Messi is this unbelievable enigma of a footballer. The way he glides, the way he is one step ahead of everyone and his technique is something else completely.

AJH - I hear what you are saying but when you put it into perspective in 2009/10, 2011/12 2012/13 he outscored Ronaldo and in 2009/10, 2010/11, 2011/12, 2012/13, 2013/14 and so far in 2014 Messi has provided more assists. The years in which Ronaldo outscored Messi in La Liga in 2013/14 and so far this season is only by three goals.

When you factor in he had a couple of long lay offs during these periods then if that's a player taking his foot off the gas I'd be frightened to see him out his foot down!

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25 Feb 2015 09:51:31
Messi is the best player in the world and even though i hate saying it.

BTW folks i picked Barcelona to win the CL and still believe they will do so.

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25 Feb 2015 12:21:43
He won the golden ball at the world cup but what did he do? Remember these are the same people who gave a world cup to Qatar.

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25 Feb 2015 14:10:33
Mbd, I would add two hugely important areas where Messi is superior: touch and passing. Both are unbelievable goalscorers. But Messi is equally one of the best passers and creators in the world, both of which cannot be said of Ronaldo.

For me, Messi is still the best player in the world. Ronaldo amazes us with his goals and sometimes with his final ball. Messi just leaves you in complete wonder all over the pitch: touch, feints, combining, vision, besides all his goals.

It is also interesting to see how they are both changing their roles as they age. Ronaldo is moving from being a winger to a pure striker, even if he nominally lines up on the left wing. Messi might line up on the right wing in their current setup, but he has changed from a false nine under Pep to more of a number ten now. Much of his game now revolves more around creating chances as well as finishing them.

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25 Feb 2015 18:00:59
Messi is still the best player in the world IMO. Ronnie is a machine and it does not take away anything from his achievements, on the other hand, what Messi does is just beautiful. Syd - You are having a laugh mate when you say that there is nothing Messi can do that Ronnie cannot!

Deeps.

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26 Feb 2015 08:49:34
Zidaniel,
I agree with the passing bit, the touch though i will liken to control.

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mbd              

24 Feb 2015 21:03:07
I do a blog on United if anyone cares to read it I'm Tim_Pardoe on twits

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25 Feb 2015 14:12:08
Enjoyable and accurate read Pardoe.

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25 Feb 2015 23:25:10
Thanks for that mate

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24 Feb 2015 20:22:01
Now i understand lvg's philosophy. Play crap football, miss out on cl football otherwise Barca could put 10 past our lot!
Barca have evolved and are playing fast counter football and lvg is telling our lot to play slow posession football. I think he's 10 years behind the time.

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24 Feb 2015 20:47:04
barca are playing possession football, there only countering when city lose the ball deep in barcas half. look at the possession stats.

but with the players barca have they are making city chase shadows.


its something you can obviously see lvg is trying do with us, but we don't have the right players to be on the same level as that first half from barca.

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24 Feb 2015 22:15:09
Spb you say it's 'obviously' something LVG is trying to do. It's not obvious to me. To me it's slow, boring possession with a constant lack of cutting edge.

We are light years behind Barca at the moment.

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25 Feb 2015 06:21:14
Jmb

How long have Barcelona had to perfect that style and how long have we? That style was instilled into Barca years and years ago, LvG has had a few months. Like we found with Ronaldo, having one of the all time greats like Messi in the team also helps.

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25 Feb 2015 08:40:55
Most teams try to play like that, hughes is trying to get stoke to play like that .

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25 Feb 2015 09:37:37
Red Man that style has actually declined in the Barca team since Pep left. They haven't been playing the same way since. They have tried but not succeeded to the heights in which Pep did. Even now they are a far cry from that all conquering Barca team of a few years back.

To reverse your question how long have we had over the past few years to instil a winning mentality and quick counter attacking football? That seems long gone.

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25 Feb 2015 09:56:58
Job

Do you feel we were as successful as we should have been in Europe using our previous style given the level of dominance at home?

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25 Feb 2015 09:57:42
They are playing much faster and and do not recycle the ball as much. I have watched them all year and that is why I have picked them to win the CL.

Their new manager has definitely changesd their playing style and much more balanced now in terms of going wide and some directness.

What we are doing under LVG and what Barca is doing at the moment are miles apart. They took their foot off the gas in the second half.

I watched them tear Athletico Madrid to shred a few weeks ago and could have had 6 or 7 goals and believe it or nto it was like they were having fun which is scary.

This is the same Athletico Madrid team that most other teams struggle to score against and at the moment have Real Madrid' s number.

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24 Feb 2015 20:21:44
Guys, if you're not already watching, switch on the City/Barca game.

Men against boys. City are a very good team, but Barca, and Messi in particular, are on a different level.

If nothing else, you can watch a team play possession football with an actual end product.

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24 Feb 2015 20:47:48
we could proberly play like that with the right players.

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24 Feb 2015 21:05:03
Any team could with the right players, mate :)

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24 Feb 2015 21:52:56
That first half was frightening, how I would love us to be able to play like that. Fair play to City, surprised Barcelona laid off second half.

I bet Suarez is peeved not having the penalty!

I don't rate Alves and that reaction to being subbed will hopefully mean LVG stays clear as there were a lot of rumours.

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24 Feb 2015 22:21:21
And who are these players? Di Maria who can't pass five yards? Rooney the general in midfield who can't pass 10 yards? Maybe Januzaj who won't lift his head to pass to a team mate? Or Felliani who has very little passing ability in general?

Or do you think Rojo could start it from the back instead of hoofing it forward when he gets the chance? Maybe RVP or Falcao could get involved and link up play or are they better just sitting up top waiting to miss a tap in? Maybe Blind and Carrick could just pass it sideways towards each other for the whole game to maintain possession?

Light years from Barca. Don't even bother comparing us.

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24 Feb 2015 23:28:56
its clear to see the way we have been playing lvg wants us to become a team "LIKE" how barca were in the first half, there general play mimicked how we have tried to play this season. we just lacked the finesse and movement they were showing especially in midfield.


every time their keeper got the ball the 2 cbs would split to come for a short pass and the full backs would push up the line. again something we have been doing.

theres been plently of times juanmatasbeard that our cbs have tried bringing the ball out just how pique and Macherano were doing today. just they are not as composed.

plenty of simalarites, now i'm not trying to compare us to barca i'm just saying people are asking what kid of football is lvg trying to play, what direction are we trying to go in.

well from what i saw from the game something similar to the way barca were playing.

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24 Feb 2015 23:58:08
Since we hardly have a player who would get in City's XI, the gulf between us and ever winning the Champions League again, let alone qualifying for it, is clearly apparent. It's going to take years. It's so much more than having great players.

I'd be interested to get comments on whether people think we should just appoint a younger manager with a modern vision, sell of the expensive misfits, thus reducing our salaries, and then allow him to build a team over 3-5 years.

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25 Feb 2015 00:34:49
JuanMata, who are you arguing with here? I was pointing out how good Barca were in that first half. I didn't compare us to them, or even mention us.

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25 Feb 2015 00:43:40
Beast, the first half was frightening the way they disected a top team like City - like Barca in their pomp a few years ago. The second half was more like the Barca of more recent times.

It showed what I've always believed - if you get in about European teams with their slower pace of play, and play like you would in the Premiership, you'll make it difficult for even the best of them.

I think we've tried to convince ourselves that we need to be more sophisticated when we play in Europe, which I think only plays into their hands.

I know it makes me sound like a dinosaur, but there you go.

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25 Feb 2015 07:42:13
Stevie

The thing that struck me was Barca played with more pace than they have previously, they looked to break quickly as one said to the old endless passing they used to excel at. Messi was brilliant, popping up everywhere and even getting his foot in. Very impressive

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24 Feb 2015 19:52:34
If rumours are right and pereira is interested in a move to feynoord, maybe clasie can come the other way?

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24 Feb 2015 15:24:16
Have to ask because of the things I've read daily on this page and how many people are disgruntled with our current situation. After finishing 7th last term, losing 4 big squad members another new manager and the world cup making summer transfers a smash and grab.

what exactly did people expect for this season??? The title???

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24 Feb 2015 15:47:32
No, we expect good football.

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24 Feb 2015 16:04:43
its about the football we're playing for me, i didn't expect the title in all seriousness for at least a few more seasons, but the standard of our game is shocking at times

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24 Feb 2015 16:04:45
How much of an impact or how crucial were Vidic, Rio, Giggs & Evra last season? Most of us wanted shot of them to be fair, its only now that people say LVG's job was made harder because they left. Well he had £150m+ to deal with those almost squad players leaving, in effect aside from Evra they hardly did much last season and Shaw was a revelation with Southampton a certain upgrade in theory.

I expected the title, especially as we had no Europe. We are now praying our competitors win in Europe because it aids our chances of getting a CL spot - never thought that would happen, but many of us realise we can only get it by an "unfair" advantage over our rivals. Makes me sick we resort to that mentality, but its a fact.

I could list 100 managers that would have done better if we had a Groundhog Day effect this season. It doesn't make you a lesser fan to question the managers performance, we support the club not the manager first!

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24 Feb 2015 16:05:03
Some improvement over the season and some sign that the team is moving forward and the manager is capable of improving the team

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24 Feb 2015 16:22:02
I was quite optimistic up-until the Swansea game. Now, with Liverpool and Arsenal looking very strong, I don't think we will make top four unless there is improvement on and off the field.

RVP being injured is a blessing as far as I am concerned. We might see a more balanced set up.

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24 Feb 2015 16:34:48
beast, expecting the title this season was adventurous, we were woeful last season, regardless of money spent, the team is no where near title challenges.

and to say it would be unfair to our competitors if we get 4th, i just don't get.

im curious to know what managers would have done better in your mind?

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24 Feb 2015 16:54:25
I just thought it was a realistic expectation, maybe a bit ambitious, but we had a lot of advantages this season.

What I am saying about an unfair advantage Many of us think that being in Europe will make our rivals for CL places weaker in the league, we don't have that. I read comments everywhere with people saying "Liverpool, Arsenal, Spurs have Europe to worry about so they will drop points" - basically if we had Europe to think about just think how rubbish our season would have been? In fact how much worse, as it is rubbish anyway.

So we are relying on an unfair advantage, on a level playing field (no European competitions this year) our rivals would drop less points ergo we would be worse off.

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24 Feb 2015 17:00:41
firstly, I personally didn't want shot of 4 very experienced players I don't know if anyone else agrees with beast and I certainly wouldn't pick evans jones smalling etc over them

secondly, does anybody really think LVG (coming back from the world cup) said "I want these players"?? and you can't put expectations on a manager based on the price tags other teams put on the players so quoting £150m adds nothing to the debate.

As for the style of play, some of you may have seen previously my thoughts on the contained football we are forced to play due to the weakness of our defence and how that is restricting the forward play. LVG also touched on this following the QPR game. So I think its harsh to judge a manager on style of play if he's getting the results until he's had a chance to build his own team.

Are we taking other elements into consideration like Mr Woodward for example?? 2 Summers in a row have been tales of long drawn out player chasing with no results (Fabregas, Vidal)when other teams seem to land their targets with ease (chelsea have since acquired 2 of ours)

Reality check time have a look at our squad and how many would get into teams like barca, real, chelsea, bayern etc 3?? 4 if we include de gea. People are expecting too much too soon, even Mr One season Mourinho fell into 3rd last season and i'm sure decisions like selling the two time player of the year to a direct rival didn't go down too swimmingly andi would imagine there are fans of them on sites like this that blamed decisions such as that for their downfall at the time.

Give the man time he's working with a mish mash of a squad and not really doing too badly, judge him after next season

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24 Feb 2015 17:06:02
spb - virtually every premier league manager, in fact if we had no manager whatsoever I think the lads would figure out the best thing for the squad. Kind of like being stranded on a desert island, the leaders would step up and boys would become men. We have too many weaklings and the manager is hampering our creativity with his rigid tactical approach.

Maybe a bit extreme above, but I would be interested to know what you think LVG has done well? For example if you are LVG in an appraisal what do you think he will be saying to his boss when asked about progress or his accomplishments thus far?

I'd love to be a fly on the wall. "Mr. Woodward, you are not a football man, you are a business man. I am a football man and everything is going to plan, don't worry it will be perfectly ok, I am LVG and LVG almost always gets it almost right or he doesn't and then that is not my fault", and I do think he would refer to himself in the third person during an appraisal!

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24 Feb 2015 17:30:20
for me i wasn't expecting fireworks this season, 4th spot was a minimum expectation.

for me i feel playing in Europe and playing 2 games a week benefits a team, players are getting games, getting into rytham and for me it builds momentum.

but i'm still confident of getting 4th

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24 Feb 2015 17:38:02
I'd also love to know the stats of points dropped in games following european games compared to games following no midweek games this season if somebody can find out??

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24 Feb 2015 17:51:41
I was expecting a decent season maybe a title challenge if all was going well but at the least a good top four finish

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24 Feb 2015 18:01:33
Wherever you stand on this debate. I feel confident in saying that every football fan of Utd and others expected a better performance from us. I don't feel the balance between getting results and sacrificing performance has been worth it, we sacrifice far more than what we are getting because let's face it the results haven't been that great, but the football has been awful.

Our competitors will all be amazed we are not walking a CL place, Arsenal, Spurs, Liverpool will all be surprised that there are two CL places up for grabs.

For that alone serious questions need to be asked now.

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24 Feb 2015 18:37:13
Mish mash of a squad. Tell me another team that have won the league, added 200 million pound of talent to it, decent young players entering the squad, only the league to worry about, and are playing as abysmal as this lot. There is still a lot of quality in the squad but we are going into March with no one having a clue as to what the system is and none of them looking happy. Sorry but stop making excuses for Lvg. He's had a fer easier ride than Moyes but I think we are now in a worse position as it looks like we are going to have to start all over again.

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24 Feb 2015 19:35:09
I was expecting us to come out of the blocks at the start of the season guns ablazing. We had a whole load of relatively easy fixtures and, frankly, I was expecting us to be close to or at the top at the end of October. Okay, so that didn't happen. Then we were supposed to kick on after Christmas, especially when our injury list improved. Well that hasn't happened either - quite the contrary, we've got worse. So what are we to think about LVG? The prima facie evidence suggests The Beast has got it pretty much spot on, sad as it is to say.

We can't keep saying we're missing Ferdinand, Evra and Vidic when all 3 of them were clearly past their best and, IMO, would not have helped our team this year. The issue is that the players acquired to replace them are simply not as good, which is probably why SAF kept going back to the old folks. Even in their declining states they were better than Jones, Smalling and Evans. The art of long term management is to get rid of players before they are in terminal decline and while they still have value. We didn't do that. It's what SAF was great at until the last 3 or 4 years. The quality of the inherited squad compared to our main rivals was simply subpar, and that will take time to fix. That's LVG's one remaining straw.

. unless of course we suddenly start playing well!!

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24 Feb 2015 19:39:25
Expecting the title, expecting fantastic football.

Some realism is needed. The title would have meant taking the club from 7th to 1st and I don't believe it has been done very often, if at all. We suffered a total loss of confidence last season and started this season with no momentum. However I read some expect the title after last season where the main learning point was that we needed to play like underdogs, to look over our shoulders. Then there is an expectation of this free flowing football, despite not having played any consistently for probably 5 years. Some expected a miracle, a miracle where last season never happened. Hard to believe the totally unrealistic expectations, unless, of course you want to hang, draw and quarter the manager for not achieving to X box fantasy level.
The aim should have been to get 3rd, whatever the football, after last season and a failed transition anything more is unrealistic,

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24 Feb 2015 19:59:13
Did porsche 933 skip a season???

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24 Feb 2015 20:08:02
Red Man, Liverpool went from 7th to 2nd only last season. I'd have taken that, especially after the money invested in the squad and a world-renowned manager. But certainly top 4.

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24 Feb 2015 20:35:46
We are 3 points better of than last season .
With a better squad .
Last season was a long time ago you can't continue to blame lack of confidence due to moyes as an excuse
Redman
There is an expectation of improvement through the season have you seen any?
Your the first to defend lvg tell me what is it he is doing that is so good ?
As for finishing 7th last season we are 3 points of 7th at the moment with some hard games coming up .

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24 Feb 2015 22:25:26
Red Man -

Liverpool last year with a net spend of less than half of what we spent finished second, played the best football in the league, banged in over 100 goals and took their supporters on one hell of a ride. Why can't we expect the same?

We spent heavily. Hired an 'experienced coach' the type guys like you wanted. Plus kept the majority of our better players Rooney, RVP, Carrick, De Gea etc.

If you settle for mediocre then heck don't be suprised when you get mediocre.

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24 Feb 2015 22:42:59
The realism that people need to accept is that we spent more money than any other team during the summer and, as jred points out, it has given us a 3 points boost from the same stage last season.

Nobody is demanding that we win the league, but when a manager is given a huge investment and claim that they're going to win the biggest competitions with this club, you expect to see some evidence that they're heading in the right direction. Van Gaal has had over half a season to get his ship in order, but so far our performances have been consistently underwhelming. The question is, when are we going to see any major sign that the methods that van Gaal claims the team are wholeheartedly embracing are actually having an impact on our performances?

Last year I was one of Moyes's biggest critics. Not because he's a terrible manager, but because the club has a big rebuilding job on their hands and he was incapable of proving that he was the right man to do it. Van Gaal has had a far easier ride than Moyes: more money, less fixtures and lower expectations. But he still hasn't convinced me that he is the right person to get the club back on track. Ultimately, that's all I was expecting this season, for the manager to demonstrate a decent level of improvement given the resources he was given.

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25 Feb 2015 00:37:28
"Ultimately, that's all I was expecting this season, for the manager to demonstrate a decent level of improvement given the resources he was given." Danny

Nailed it, Danny.

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25 Feb 2015 05:45:37
Jred.jmb

I have never said nor thought LvG was the right man, he was not my choice. However what I do see is that he is trying to structure a style of play that he feels will benefit long term, he appears to be trying to bring in talented 16 year olds to have players coming through. We don't know the plan he has outlined to the board.
I don't think people appreciate the hole we were in last season, a club and team totally without direction and severely damaged confidence, a team that hadn't played really good football for years, an unbalanced squad, a team no longer feared. His starting point was a lot more difficult than people are realising so I cut him some slack. Everyone quotes the money well it should have been spent over previous seasons on the right players, not leaving the holes in the team it did, not in one go and those new players need to settle, it just doesn't happen instantly. So whilst LvG isn't my type of manager I think we have to give him more time.

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25 Feb 2015 07:37:40
Redman
Nothing's changed

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25 Feb 2015 07:47:01
Redman
Shame you couldn't see all this last year

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25 Feb 2015 07:53:54
Jred

We appointed someone really wrong last year and as I said many times it was a 1970 moment that we didn't learn from. Read back before last year and see what I said. Totally different situations

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25 Feb 2015 08:45:24
Redman
U mean back the manager as long as redman approves .
I think we got the wrong man again this time, read back what i said at the start of the season.

Also i have said many times there are a lot of issues at united any manager will need time

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25 Feb 2015 09:29:59
SAF leaving was always going to have a knock on effect and we are still seeing it now. Moyes was the wrong choice, we should have brought in someone accomplished, someone who could have kept us plodding along the way we were. We weren't playing as well as previous seasons under SAF, but we still had the fear factor and the players had their confidence. SAF going the players were always going to have a wobble unless we brought in someone with some pedigree. We went with Moyes and we simply haven't recovered from that mistake. It just proves that even with a massive spend in the summer we are still not playing well, therefore it's not just the playing squad that's the problem. The problem is still mental and until we sort that out we will not improve drastically no matter who we sign. We have become harder to beat, but that has sacrificed our attacking flair so to speak. Like I said when we were 3rd and flying high, I would replace LvG in the summer whether we finish 3rd or not. We need a manager who is going to put his arm around the players, not rejecting them and making them want to leave. I would opt for Carlo Ancelotti who would do just that. He has many friends in the game and player will want to play for him. So in a nutshell, we have improved slightly as we are harder to beat, but we are still playing some awful football and personally like I have been saying for some time now, I think there is still a mental issue that we need to overcome. We have turned Di Maria into Bebe, Falcao and Mata have come to MU and have struggled. Rooney and Van Persie continue to struggle. We have top notch players, but they cannot play well. Picture any of these players in another top side and they would be flourishing. There's something more that's the issue and we cannot use the "Our players aren't good enough" excuse anymore. I think the main issue is mental. The players need to snap out of it if we are going to have any chance of a top four finish. I have a feeling we will miss out again.

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25 Feb 2015 10:29:22
I'll be honest, Syd. I expected to see Shappy's name at the end of that post.

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25 Feb 2015 11:41:36
Why do people keep referring to the sum of money that was spent??? If you think any of them players were on LVG's top priority shopping list u are deluded. City spent a Billion before they won the league!!! The money spent in summer is irrelevant you could buy 15 average players at £10m each it doesn't mean you will win the league. If you are relying on money to buy trophies it costs a hell of a lot more than 150m just look at city chelsea real madrid etc etc you need to let him build his team, don't judge him on a mix of ageing players (rvp, rooney, carrick, valencia) young squad players that would not be first choice in other circumstances (evans, jones, smalling) and a couple of supermarket sweep players acquired in an opportunist fashion (di maria, falcao). The only player I believe was purpose bought by LVG himself was Blind

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25 Feb 2015 12:12:45
Are you saying that we can only judge van Gaal on the players he has directly brought in?

I guess we'll have to bankroll van Gaal for another 20 plus signings because we can't expect him to achieve anything with players he hasn't handpicked.

This is, of course, a nonsense defence of van Gaal. Regardless of whether the players bought in the summer were "van Gaal signings" or not is a moot point. We signed a number of players who have performed well at their previous clubs. These are good players who obviously have the potential to improve our squad if used in an effective way. Good managers are capable of making the most of what they have got. Even if van Gaal didn't personally select these players, he still has them at his disposal. The fact that van Gaal has been thus far unable to get the best out of the majority of our new signings (and existing players) is a also direct reflection on him, and not simply a case of poor transfer strategy.

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25 Feb 2015 18:34:27
Sydney

I agree and if Ancelotti was available in summer I wouldn't be disappointed if he ended at OT.

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24 Feb 2015 15:11:56
Not necessarily United related but do you think that if Arsenal don't make top 4 then Sanchez will leave? I can't see us pinching him but I could see City get him in a year or two.

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{Ed002's Note - No.}

24 Feb 2015 15:48:02
No he seems very happy at the club and I think after being at bara he is quite enjoying being a big fish in small pond.

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24 Feb 2015 14:57:59
{Ed001's Note - We have posted a new article entitled, The Potential Summer Re-shuffle at Liverpool FC

Believable0 Unbelievable2

24 Feb 2015 13:06:18
I was speaking to a guy tonight called Darren Burgess who was a coach at Liverpool a few years ago and is now a fitness coach at Port Adelaide Power (AFL team). He does soccer camps for young lads (my nephews attend) and I was asking him about the EPL training regimes.

He told me that he has many friends who still coach in the Premier League who he speaks to on a daily basis. At Liverpool he said that Gerrard was always the best at leading training drills and gave his all every time he worked with him.

He told me that from what he was told recently, believe it or not Felliani was actually the hardest worker at training for United. He says he has been told he always arrives an hour early and stays a few extra hours in the gym when the rest of the squad has gone home and often rocks up to the training complex seven days a week.

He also added that Smalling was one of the quickest defenders he had worked with (he did a training program with England youth when he was at Fulham) and if his injuries were managed properly and he put on more mass he has the makings of being a top defender.

Interesting comments I thought.

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24 Feb 2015 13:50:14
Always good to get an insight into things. Doesn't surprise me about Fellaini tbh. He doesn't look like the half arsed type. He has been given a great opportunity at one of the biggest clubs in the world, I'm sure he will do everything possible to make it work for himself. Smalling I wasn't convinced about a while back, but he seems to have improved this season for me. Jones is the big disappointment, not just because of his injuries.

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24 Feb 2015 15:49:22
After being at the last pre season game and seeing Fellaini get booed with every touch(something which nagered me greatly) I have been a massive fan of hium, he has showed true determination and heart andf I think he fully warrants a place at the lcub, despite not setting the world alight.

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24 Feb 2015 08:48:20
Not United related, but is it just me that thinks the uproar of Ashley Barnes clash with Matic has gone way over the top? I saw it on Saturday and thought it was accidental and the 100 replays we have been shown since haven't changed that view. In slow motion it looks like a bad challenge, if you just look at the foot hitting the shin, but in real time and seeing exactly what was happening, I don't feel Barnes did it on purpose. He was playing a pass and Matic jumped in, was Barnes supposed to stop his leg in mid air and mid pass? anyone who has played football knows that is impossible, it was an unavoidable accident for me, and no worse than what Nani was wrongly sent off for again Real Madrid.

I can understand why Matic reacted as he will have just felt the force of the blow and assumed it was a bad tackle, he was rightly sent off though. Just shows not everything is black n white.

Believable6 Unbelievable2

{Ed001's Note - did you not think he made a second movement to straighten his leg to get Matic with the follow through?}

24 Feb 2015 09:37:08
Looked a bad un to me

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24 Feb 2015 09:52:06
I agree was bad but do u really think he thought "right I'm going to break this guy's leg?" I dunno and tbh if he did then he should be banned for life

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24 Feb 2015 10:52:29
Chris
Not sure, he had a couple goes before hand.
Some times you can make a decision to go in hard and that happens . You maybe don't want to break a leg but you do intend to leave a bit on him

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24 Feb 2015 11:27:51
I thought Matic was right to react, Most of us would react to someone doing that to us as well. Barnes seemed to go over the top and regardless of if he meant it or not he should have been sent off, the fact he won't be facing any retrospective action is a strange one for me. When players make these kind of challanges they need to be punished, if not in game time then afterwards surely. Matic doesn't deserve to be banned for 2 or how many games but Barnes should have been banned for 2 regardless of intent.

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24 Feb 2015 12:13:29
I agree jred, just the height of the impact and if there was a 2nd movement I don't know why else u would do it unless u want to cause some damage.

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24 Feb 2015 12:48:59
The same player committed several bad fouls when we played them recently and only booked after he committed 5 or 6 fouls.

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24 Feb 2015 13:07:21
JaMax, Barnes didn't make a challenge, he kicked a ball and Matic came across him just after he had connected with the ball. If he had dived in to a tackle and caught Matic as he did then it is a straight red, this wasn't a tackle, it was a pass.

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24 Feb 2015 13:22:01
Nomidfield, I'm not talking about any other tackles and not defending the player for anything but this one incident. I just don't think there was any intent in it. I think it was just an accidental coming together caused as much by Matic jumping across the player to try and block the pass as the pass itself.

Refereeing this season has been shocking for me, but I think the ref and FA have got it right not to take the situation any further. Personally, I think the FA should have the option to decrease a punishment aswell as increase it, as we can all understand the way Matic reacted. If he thought he had been caught with a very bad challenge in the heat of a game, then it's hard not to react that way, not speaking from experience obviously, but the ref had no option but to send him off.

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24 Feb 2015 13:05:12
Ed001, I've seen it loads of times as I have had this debate with a Chelsea fan at work. I had another look when I read your reply and I don't see any kind of 2nd movement, it is one movement for me. He plays the pass and naturally his leg straightens. Matic stretches across at the very moment Barnes' leg stretches out, I think it was just unlucky and the timing unfortunately was perfect for the coming together.

I don't see how anyone could play a pass and then move their foot in another direction in the tiny space of time that there was when you see it at full speed. Many many tackles look terrible in slow motion, but at normal speed, during a game and depending on what was happening at the time, many are accidental or not half as bad as they seem when slowed down and zoomed in on. What makes me laugh is people like Robbie Savage and Alan Shearer on MOTD being outraged by it. They were 2 of the dirtiest players around when they played.

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24 Feb 2015 14:20:37
He doesn't bend his leg when he makes the impact tho.
You tend to natural bend your leg on contact it takes something off the impact .
If you leave something on it you keep your leg straight strong and go through the player.
Or so I've been told, honest

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24 Feb 2015 14:31:45
Jred, something you want to confess?

I don't think it bent because his leg was jarred between the shin of Matic and his own hip, kind of locking it. Did a similar thing once myself when challenging for a header. I landed, but instead of my leg bending on impact with the ground, it jarred and my knee didn't bend, was pretty painful. In my case the ground was very hard, whereas the leg of Matic wasn't so hard, so it wouldn't have hurt Barnes.

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24 Feb 2015 15:40:54
Brendan81, Barnes did not have possession of the ball, it was away from him, Matic and Barnes contested the ball together, not only was Barnes high, he also missed the ball, It may not have been a dive in tackle but he caught Matic.

What you say about a pass is complete nonsense. Regardless of if its a pass or not he was late in his attempts to get the ball and caught the opposition player on high on the shin. that's a sending off! His leg went downwards onto Matic's shin, if it was a pass his foot would have gone in a more forward motion closer to the ground.

Contact that bad, regardless of intent, regardless of if it was a pass or tackle, does not belong in the game and should be punished.

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24 Feb 2015 16:17:58
Sorry Brendan81, you were correct, i watched it again and it was a pass. I still feel he followed through and his foot went higher than it needed to be.

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24 Feb 2015 16:23:48
JaMax you seriously need to go watch it again, if you have even watched it and aren't going off what others have been saying. Barnes had the ball, he knocked it forward slightly and then played a pass which is when Matic jumped in to try and block the pass. When you kick a ball your leg follows through and rises, it's a ball they are kicking, not a wall, and it's not Subuteo. As his leg followed through, Matic came in and his leg got in the way of Barnes' follow through.

You sure you are watching the right video clip?

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24 Feb 2015 16:31:30
Fair do's for accepting a mistake, nothing I have seen is changing my mind on the accident thing. He kicked the ball, his leg carried on forward as it does and unfortunately Matic came in half a second late to block it and got the boot instead. His leg/foot doesn't deviate in anyway, it is a kick and forward swing. If he deviated his leg/foot in order to catch Matic then I would agree. For me, he has to be given the benefit of the doubt as there is no evidence that he meant to do anything but play a pass. The still photos in all the papers of his foot on the shin makes it look a million times worse than it was. That's the media and Jose for you though. Let's face it Chelsea are no angels.

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24 Feb 2015 18:11:28
Fair point Brendan, do you think Matic was wrong to react?

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25 Feb 2015 10:19:39
In terms of the laws of the game yes he was totally wrong and it cost Chelsea. Do I blame him for doing it? No. If I believed that someone had gone in high on me and intended to hurt me, I would have reacted the same. But then seeing replays after I would have realised that it wasn't as I had thought.

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24 Feb 2015 08:27:04
There seems to be a lot of hypocrisy on this site. If you all remember we played a few games with wingers (West Brom away, Man City away off the top of my head) and Di Maria didn't exactly destroy the opposition.

You were all calling Van Gaal to play him as a centre midfielder because that's where he did so well at Real Madrid. Now that he's playing there and still not playing his best football you all now want him back out wide?!

You are finding any excuse to blame the manager, everything the fans have called for he has given them and it still hasn't worked so at what point can we stop blaming Van Gaal and start blaming our players who aren't turning up.

P.S We could do with Nani back right now

Believable10 Unbelievable4

24 Feb 2015 09:14:35
On the wing or in a midfield 3 and he will done fine imo.
Not sure about the 10 role

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24 Feb 2015 10:28:59
He has played a few games recently in a midfield 3

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24 Feb 2015 10:33:22
Di Maria is struggling to settle IMO. I don't think he wants to be in Manchester and I think despite what he says, he regrets signing for us. The weather doesn't help, he is not used to this climate and going from Argentina/Portugal/Spain to English weather is going to be an issue. He started happy and was playing quite well, but the novelty seems to have worn off pretty quick. It doesn't matter where we play him at the moment, he needs to sort his head out before we see a massive improvement on the field.

On another note, I think Rafael may get a game this weekend despite LvG's reluctance to play him.

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24 Feb 2015 11:24:39
Playing in a diamond isn't playing in a midfield three. Di Maria plays well on the wing or part of a midfield three with wide players ahead of him. Why he did so well at Real last season is because he had Ronaldo and Bale making runs ahead of him, dragging players out of position and creating space. At United everything is really congested, so he doesn't get of an opportunity to build up speed to run at people, or have runners ahead of him to play balls behind the defence or down the channels. Because we don't have players like Bale and Ronaldo, our best option is to play him wide in a midfield 4 or 5. That gives him more opportunity to get one-one-one with defenders and exploit them with his pace. Whether (see I made a the pun lol) he can adapt to the EPL is another matter, but until he is given a decent run in his best position we won't get much out of him.

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24 Feb 2015 11:30:48
Perfect assessment for me Syd.

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24 Feb 2015 12:06:39
Think everyone needs to cut him some slack. He's moved to a new country and he had armed robbers smashing in to his house while he was there, with his family, for crying out loud. Having been through a similiar experience, it's very traumatic. He will not be 100% right now.

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24 Feb 2015 12:53:46
I think he's finding out very quickly how quick and strong the defenders are in this league. I'm not sure he's cut out to do well in this league as he gets pushed over very easily, but you never know, if he can strengthen, then he might do well.

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24 Feb 2015 01:35:42
I feel that the majority of fans are still undecided on the future of LVG but I think we are all of the opinion that if he doesn't reach the CL this season he should in all probability lose his position and if he gets the CL place then he would have earned another year.

If he goes though I believe we should look towards appointing a younger manager with a 'modern philosophy' who understands the modern game and the needs of modern players. If it is a long term project or massive rebuilding that the board wants to implement then I would like to see a gaffer in charge who will grow with that project.

I also would like to see more passion from our leader in the dugout. I watch coaches like Mourinho, Wenger, Rodgers and even Pocchetino (who doesn't speak much English) show animation on the touch line which shows they love their job. Even when you look at the young successful coaches in Europe such as Klopp, Simeone, Mancini and Guardiola to name a few they are always directing from the frontline.

Like I said if LVG gets us the the CL berth then yes I will give him another go but if not then he should suffer the same fate as Moyes and his reputation should not save him.

Believable6 Unbelievable1

24 Feb 2015 08:44:36
Moyes is a "young" coach and pretty animated. :)

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mbd              

24 Feb 2015 11:33:03
Just because one doesn't work, it doesn't mean others wont. Plus it was a different set of circumstances when Moyes took over.

3rd time lucky if you ask me, so long as we pick young, intelligent and confident. With most importantly an ideology of attacking teams and picking players on merit not reputation or how you can talk about clogs with them!

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23 Feb 2015 23:55:08
Reading the posts on this site is indicative of the problems facing the club. When things are going well, it's easy, but when they're not, out come the armchair managers with their much considered opinions.

I don't read other clubs pages but I'm sure it's been the same there too. Last year Martinez was the best thing since we stopped eating processed flour sliced bread, Rodgers was a disaster for his first season, then the best manager in the league, then he wasn't, and now maybe he is again, Wenger came in for a slating as Arsenal once again failed to win anything, until the FA Cup provided some relief, and now Arsenal look great.

SAF was a fantastic manager who exploited the circumstances he found when he came into the league. It was a time when gate money was the principle source of income, and when foreign players were rare. There were no mega rich clubs, so it was a more even playing field. The club could afford not to be in Europe, the competition was a smaller one, and financially less imperative.

This is just my opinion but as good as he was, SAF was a dinosaur in many ways. Beast would probably say the same of LVG - managers whose systems were based on a different set of assumptions. United needs to be modernized on the field and off, and thus far we have chosen two replacements who may not have the wherewithal to achieve that. Moyes, because he has neither the experience or the persona to be at a top club, LVG because he's inflexible and too arrogant. LVG's systems and philosophy are maybe geared to 10-20 years ago - players and managers have learnt these systems and moved on and beyond them. But who else could we have persuaded to come to OT? Pocchetino? Who could we realistically get next season? Do we really want Giggs, a players steeped in the SAF tradition updated with a year under LVG.

Maybe we need to go for a younger manager, one with a modern vision, cut out all these expensive misfits, thereby substantially reducing our costs, and give him 3 years to build from scratch. One thing we cannot do is continue to chop and change, paying premium prices for players who fit into no conceivable long term strategy.

Or maybe it's all going to tun around next match!

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24 Feb 2015 01:10:05
The difference is Shawthing that Sir Alex may well have been a 'dinosaur' like LVG as you say but SAF adapted his style year in, year out and changed it up game by game depending on who we were playing against and how the game was evolving.

LVG on the otherhand seems to be producing the same performances regardless of the opposition. He seems to be setting out a blueprint of how he wants the game to be played and is not willing to change it up when things aren't going too well.

I think in the latter years SAF found it difficult and this is why he stepped down when he did. I feel Wenger to an extent is finding it tough to keep up with the ever changing modern game, as did Harry Redknapp this year, Kenny Dalgish during his Liverpool spell before Rodgers and even Kevin Keegan when he returned to Newcastle a few years back.

It's an ever changing game with new challenges each season and unless you can (or are willing to adapt) you will not find ultimate success. LVG in my opinion must show the fans he is willing to suck it up and change things if his immediate plan isn't working.

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24 Feb 2015 08:56:55
JMB, u may have a point there. After all we live in a dynamic world.

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mbd              

24 Feb 2015 11:46:01
Great posts - you need to be flexible and apply a lot of short term attention to things nowadays, patience is a virtue no longer applicable to football. LVG & Moyes for different reasons were looking too far down the line and were/are being bitten by it.

Moyes - 6 year contract and a lot of problems to solve, he didn't realise how immediate we needed to see a return and due to his background was on a hiding to nothing. Not having an experienced support mechanism above him didn't help, I could go on but it has been done to death.

LVG - Mr. Long View Guy, but there is no willingness to adapt at all, maybe he will adjust a formation slightly when things aren't working but on the whole its one step forward 2 back for me - he never applies the learnings from one game to the next due to his long term vision of the perfect football team. Unfortunately football is a short term business.

We have made 2 bad appointments, it shouldn't deter us from trying again and again until we get it right. No two clubs are the same with the same problems to solve, so there is a large element of luck to the process, that is why I wouldn't be ashamed if we keep hiring and firing until we have the perfect manager in place.

We will all know when that happens, there certainly won't be as much debate about it when we have the right man in charge.

Please don't talk about SAF's early years in response, the world is far more ruthless and there is far more at stake now. No manager of a top team would get the time SAF got and justifiably so in the modern age - too much to lose now.

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