Manchester United Banter Archive January 24 2015

24 Jan 2015 20:20:47
Hi all,
I try not to post too soon after a game as emotions cloud your judgement. After letting a day pass and watching the game again on MUTV I want to repeat what I've said before, but add an opinion that I have only now started to believe. Firstly my regular point about our slow, pedestrian football. Our play is so slow and getting slower. Players receive the ball stood still, then pass to another (usually square or backwards) who is also stood still. Why I don't jump on the manager as some do is because this lack of pace and movement has been evident for around four years now. What has happened to receiving the ball on the burst or playing into space for a runner to get onto? Anyway onto my opinion for what its worth. Apart from our awful defenders who can't pass a ball, (Phil Jones last night was ridiculously bad) I now think the problem might be Michael Carrick. He is a player I have always liked, and he helps make us more solid, but I think he is a major effect on the speed of play through the middle. I would much prefer Herrera in midfield to increase the tempo, and maybe have Carrick in defence. Anyway sorry for going on a bit, would like to know what others think.

Wash your mouth out. Carrick is massively underrated, I agree he would be good in a back 3 but to blame him for our slow play is criminal. You do know he ha been here for 8 years don't you

Honestly you deserve some type of medal for watching that game again. I fell asleep during the first half, and I didn't even know the plot.

AJH, I don't like to think I'm blaming Carrick so much, but suggesting the style of play with him in that midfield position is adding to the problem. As I said I have always liked him, but feel Herrera would be quicker around the pitch and play quicker passes.

24 Jan 2015 22:46:35
You're a masochist, inhope, I hope you know that.

24 Jan 2015 23:03:41
I agree inhope about Carrick, his passing is still good but he makes a lot of sideways and backwards passes. When he doesn't play its fletcher and he plays the same way but not as effective.
We need forward thinking players like Herrera like you said but also a good solid partner for him to do the dirty work.

Ajh Carrick has had one good season never world class and never would be first choice in any of the top sides around the world.sick of hearing it. He's came in this season made an impact because we are terribly poor in the middle of the park and at the back. Ince keane scholes Robson whiteside moses we have been spoilt in recent times but Carrick isn't one of them.

Sparky behave yourself. Carrick has most definitely been world class over the years however his performances have been overshadowed by the media spot light on players like Ronaldo, Scholes, Rooney, Tevez, RVP etc. The reason you don't notice half the nasty work he has done over the years in our midfield is because he does his job and stays out of the papers. For me he is one of SAF best ever signings, class player.

If LVG wants to persist with 3 at the back Carrick should move into the central role of the 3.
He can step forward with ball. his reading of the game is superb and he could manage the other 2. Allows for more dynamic players in the 3 midfield roles.

Jmb - if Carrick was world class why hasn't he ever been 1st choice for England ? Good premier league player but not world class. Whenever we've played against world class opposition Carrick goes missing.

25 Jan 2015 17:34:54
Because England managers are usually persons? How did Barry get into an England side when he's far from world class?

How did Scholes, the finest England player of his generation get forced to the left to accommodate the most over rated English player in the premier league era?

How did glen Johnson ever get capped?

There have been many bizarre England selections over the last decade.

24 Jan 2015 17:39:49
Just because other teams stink more than we do this weekend doesn't mean we don't still smell. We created very little against a team form a much lower division. Interested to see how we get on in the replay on a bigger pitch, bigger ground, bigger crowd but whilst I expect us to win, we need to snap out of this malaise. It's great the 2 best teams are out but that doesn't help solve out problems. Really don't know what happens next, perhaps it will all click into place. In '92, having lost the title to Leeds we were stuttering at the start of next season. We signed Cantona and he was the oil that made everything run smoothly; we looked a different team and won the title. Who will be this year's Cantona?

Results like yesterday happen, the issue was it wasnt a one off, we have been under performing all season and that type of football all season

Pogba

Jred, completely agree. City and Chelsea will put theirs down to a bad day at the office but we have been stuttering all year. Even in the unbeaten run we were less than convincing. I'd like to see LVG try something different, or settle on his best 11 and give them a run.

If the rumours of spending another 150 million are true, would love to see a Pogba, Reus, Marqunios, Modric signing. Fifa 15 LOL.

We need to sell players as our wage bill is too high and will get us into problems with FPP. We will have to sell a big name or two to open up some room on the books for any major signing.

It's hard not to feel a riffle of pleasure at the results so far today. Chelsea and City supporters were no doubt mocking us yesterday evening.

We now have as good a chance to win this competition as we are ever likely to have. But playing the way we are, it's hard to see that we have the speed, skills, tactics, teamwork and/or passion required to triumph. Right now, the Beast is looking somewhat prophetic, the team seems to be going backward. Our high priced stars are simply not cutting it. Is it them or the way they've been instructed to play? Falcao is not scoring, compare ADM's influence to Sanchez's at Arsenal or Fabregas/Costa, why did we buy Herrera, what's happened to Januzaj etc. etc.

They say the misfortune of others is the consolation of fools, so I won't be crowing tonight.

I think the FA cup needs a revamp, i would like to see a CL place given for winning the cup instead of 4th place

24 Jan 2015 22:17:09
There's still a lot of guff still in the squad which needs clearing out. 6-7 and that's not counting the ones out on loan.

Brilliant call Jred.

The way Pogba is going at the moment his value is climbing very week.

24 Jan 2015 17:13:08
Wonder if the football sites belonging to Chelsea, City, Southampton and Spurs have got the equivalent of Beast. They'll be heading for meltdown by now!!

Mourinho out I say. Haven't heard much from "Belfastchelsea" today, have we. Strange that.

Lol, yesterdays result don't look too bad now.

24 Jan 2015 17:00:57
afternoon all, after calming down from yesterdays shambles thought i'd put my 2 pence worth in the mix . wat the hell has herrera got to do to get a start in this team . our most talented midfielder, everything we've bn crying out for for a long time, and he's warming the bench every week . i thought as soon as he came on yesterday he made a difference, does lvg not see this, or doesn't he want to see it ?? i'm baffled i really am . felleini yesterday showed again he is not a utd player, too slow and he isn't good on the ball and isn't creative in any way shape or form from the middle of the park . he's a player to chuck on upfront for the last 10 minutes if things aren't going well, nothing more, not his fault tho, not saying he doesn't give his all, but that's just the way it is from my point of view . i also think raphael and shaw should have started, valencia can't cross the ball to save his life, and blind is to slow . and as for rvp, i think his time has come, we've got the players too make a good team this year, but at the minute the manager is making things far harder than they need to be regarding his style of play, just wish he would stop being so stubborn and just use the best players we have in their proper positions and attack teams instead of messing about with the ball with this constant side to side passing !! rant over, sorry guys lol

Agree 100 percent.

Amen brother. I think LVG is more worried about losing instead of concentrating on winning. On another post, someone asked what the Unted way was. My answer is 'you score 3, we'll score 4', it would be great is LVG thought that way but so far, he appears not to

Look at ronaldos goal at arsenal away the speed we broke at and scored was breathtaking, now we would take 10 minutes and 146 passes to do what we did in about 15 seconds with about 4 or 5 passes before it was in the back of the net.

It just grinds me knowing we have the makings of a good side, some real attacking talent but their not being utilised, this constant sideways and back passing is really annoying lol and everytime I see Herrera warming the bench I just get wound up lol I think lvg is a very good manager who could do well with us, just wish he'd play good attacking football, like u guys said get back the you score 3 we'll just score 4 mentality. The players are there too do it, just need the manager to get on board lol

24 Jan 2015 16:57:18
Well, what a difference 24 hours makes. The outcome from last nights match is starting to look pretty good to me. A top 4 finish and winning a trophy is very much on.

24 Jan 2015 16:56:21
Wow, that has to be the most upsets in one day in the Cup. City, Chelsea, Spurs and Southampton all going out on the same day as well as Swansea who could have been dangerous. Bolton beating Liverpool would top off a perfect day!

No matter how bad we were yesterday, at least we are still in it and at least we have a chance of winning it!

24 Jan 2015 16:55:47
Chelsea, City, Spurs and Southhampton out too. LOL what a crazy 4th round. Top 3 PL teams lose at home.

24 Jan 2015 16:24:42
Hi ed2,

In your opinion what does the future hold for Ander Herrera at United under LVG?

{Ed002's Note - He will remain as a valuable squad member. I don't see anything changing in the short term.}

That's a mighty big fee for a squad player

Everyone knows he should be starting and hopefully vidal will be alongside him next season.

I sincerely hope Herrera stays as I have liked what I have seen. He plays good attacking football always looking for a proggresive pass. the down side is because the passes look to open up play they are higher risk so gives the ball away more but as long as the risks are taken deep in the opposition third this is what I advocate. Let's face it Rooney/rvp/falcao are not the quickest over 5 yards so rely on movement and clever passes to make space and Herrera appears to be one of the better players at seeing these passes.

24 Jan 2015 12:35:47
I am not advocating a change of manager as beast and some others might want but if we got rid of lvg who can we bring to steady the ship, build a team.
Ancelloti : he's at Real and I doubt if he'll want to come here.
Mourning: the natural successor to fergie but the club chickened out. He would have fitted in perfectly.
Pep: he's at Bayern, so unlikely to move in the near future, but certainly has the qualifications and experience and the mentality to manage our club. I like his style.
Klopp: I love this man and what he stands for, but it is worrying how badly BD have slumped this year. He will definitely bring the kind of football United fans want.
Simione: he has the guts and the drive and aggression that I love to see. He should be considered, but AM play a defensive style which mostly depends on soaking pressure, and that's not what we want here in my opinion.
Blanc: not sure about him at all. PSG with all the money they have, not been out of this world. Stay well clear.
Giggs: nowhere near ready and must stay clear.
Conte: very astute manager. Built up a very good team

Whoops, for "mourning" read "mourinho"!

I'd miss the big names out.

I'd have a panel of experts interviewing candidates under 45 who are very intelligent, have strong convictions, are not overwhelmed and have a "philosophy" of attacking teams, playing with pace and picking players in form for their best positions, not on reputation to fit a dodgy system.

Without interviewing them it would be hard to say who fits that criteria and I would scour the world. I wouldn't say SAF pick somebody, or Woody pick somebody.

I'd have the panel consisting of Giggs, Neville, Scholes, SAF, Woody, Quieroz, Charlton and an expert interviewing consultant or 2 who can nail down specifics which can't be fobbed off on people who aren't interviewing/manager profile experts.

The next person needs to be given time, but most importantly be accountable for their decision making, not able to just gung-ho down their own bizarre path and the club being held to ransom because they have invested so much time and resource choosing them.

So I would also introduce a Director of Football at the same time. My idea may not be right, but I don't think it can be worse than what we have. CV's don't matter so much as everyone has blips, its to do with their mentality and intended approach to the way the game is played.

IF van Gaal doesn't last, which right now isn't looking good for him, then I agree with you.

The next manager has to be playing the right brand of football. Minimum requirements have to be attacking football. Off the top of my head, only Pep fits that bill to be honest and Ancelotti, maybe Klopp. Simeone is a defensive coach as is Mourinho.

We missed a trick with Jose when SAF left. We would be top of the league now and competing in the CL.

Can you imagine the type of players Jose would have brought in with the clubs financial power?

Gary Neville would be my choice. He's shown himself to be one of the most intelligent football players out there (past or present) since taking up punditry with Sky.

At this point in time however I think Ancelloti, Klopp, Simeone or Pep would be more realistic (and I'd take them in that order if they were possibilities).

On a side note; I don't know why Giggs is the Assistant Manager. He will always be a club legend - but he doesn't have what it takes to become manager and isn't going to learn it from LVG (all he's going to learn from LVG is how not to do things). Perhaps nobody else was willing to work with LVG?

Personally, mourinho would have been the best candidate if we were looking for success. He has the profile, the experience and the arrogance required.
However, that boat has sailed. So i think klopp, simione, conte are the only realistic targets. But I have a feeling that Pep might be available by the end of next season, and he will be the ideal candidate.
I also understand what Beast is saying that we must have a committee to choose, but this job along with Real, are the biggest jobs in football and only someone with the right qualifications, personality, background can handle it. I also agree that the next one has to be given time.
Hopefully, it won't come to this and lvg can prove his worth.
I also agree about Giggs, he should not be involved as coach. He needs to go a way and learn his trade. I think Gary Neville must be involved in the coaching staff as he has an incredible knowledge and insight into tactics.

Nomidfield

I advocated Mourinho on here when SAF was retiring and was told he was not the right choice, I think different but that ship has sailed.
When Moyes got the boot I advocated Klopp and we got LvG.
So by that logic, should we need a new manager in summer I would advocate Blanc, not because I want him, because I am hoping with my advocacy he hopefully won't get it. Blanc is the wrong choice. If Blanc did get it I would suspect the hand of SAF again and we saw what happened last time, personally I think SAFs influence at the club should be toned down now.
In reality it needs to be a Pep, Klopp or Ancelotti level or I would have to question the clubs ambition. The next manager needs to have the Beasts of this world off his back. No good appointing someone without the necessary pedigree no matter how well they interview with a panel or no panel.
Final point would be the person making the decision. SAF clearly advocated Moyes, I wonder if LvG was Woodwards? If so and LvG does fail what sort of power in the eyes of the owners would Woodward have to recommend the next manager?

Simione is a lot like jose at porto.
He would be my first choice

Red Man - I'm only on the gaffers back because he is treating us like we are mid-table fodder. He needs to evolve and not dig his heels in. I would support any manager who shows the ability to learn and evolve and most importantly understands what Man Utd stands for and incorporates that into their decision making.

Simeone would be my choice at the moment out of the top lot, Keane out of the wild card pot.

Jred

Simeone's football is more attritional rather than flowing and expansive. I admire his pluck but is he going to play the kind of football that most want? Looks to be a great motivator and organiser but as Champions League finalists and Champions they haven't come out and played great football. That would be my only concern about him

Beast

I would be lying if I said I was enjoying our play at the moment. LvG should be able to see the writing on the wall. The question for me was the recruitment, if we asked his style and it wasn't in the Manchester United expected style why recruit him?

I just answered jred on Simeone. Like him, like his attitude but he plays a very attritional style, against the Big clubs he spoils rather than looks to beat them at football. That would be my only concern with him, can he play the football we all want to see

Ancelloti and Simeone are more realistic as Jose will be at Chelsea for few years by the looks of it.

Guardiola and Klop would also be good choices. My personal preference is Guardiola.

Then there is ED001 favourite who he swears by Bielsa but he speaks zero english and neither does Simeone.

 "The next manager needs to have the Beasts of this world off his back"
Red man
I would add your name to that as well.
Beast has give lvg a hard time but no more than you gave moyes.

Jred

I am fine with that, I wanted Sexton out as well and at the time said so but gave SAF time because unlike Moyes he had a good cv.

Redman
People have said the same about jose and his style of football over the years
In terms of simione i think people are swayed by the way he sets up against barcelona or madrid but imo you have to change your style a bit against some teams.
I don't really have an issue with his tactics to be honest

Redman - Jred answered about Simeone which I agree with. In terms of why hire LVG in the first place, hard to know exactly, his CV is good (although misleading), he could get a grip of the changing room and he is known to start projects and has confidence (opposite of Moyes) - that is the simple way of analysing it, whoever made the decision didn't think about it hard enough though.

I thought he was a great appointment, then a did a tiny bit of digging/reading and realised he was a disaster waiting to happen, then I watched pre-season, the Dutch and the first 6 games of the season and knew the disaster was happening.

Whoever appointed him or advised needs to be answerable as they surely can't have been as naïve as I was at first, but maybe they did just look at his CV and think who else is there? Weak.

Simione has the guts and the aggression, and I really like that in a manager. There are choices out there, it all depends on timing and ambition.

Of course, as we speak, Chelsea losing at home to Bradford, city losing at home to boro, saints losing at home to crystal palace. So maybe our result yesterday won't be the worst of the weekend afterall!!

24 Jan 2015 19:03:08
Bielsa is a bit crazy and wouldn't be my pick but he is a great manager.

24 Jan 2015 20:58:59
People are all over Simeone this year as they (me included) were all over Klopp last year. A year can make a big difference in the cv of an up and coming manager. Would Simeone be able to transfer his mantra to that of a top team, expected to attack and win most games? Is he next years Klopp waiting to happen? I don't know the answers but I sometimes think its easy to go for the fashionable choice.

24 Jan 2015 11:03:49
you have got to feel so sorry for herrera he looked so good when he came on like he always does but if he doesn't start against a team like cambridge i just carnt see him being here after summer and he's such a good player

If the rumours are true with DDG possibly leaving the spanish contingent might be gone before they even got here and that includes Herrera. I am still confused why LVG picks the teams he does and leaves people out.

It is obviously not working on the pitch and i am embarrassed at some of the stuff we were doing and had a friend of mine who is an arsenal fan over laughing his ass off.

So your arsenal friend is laughing his head off and they're below us in the league and have had a player, Sanchez, bang in form. While as the doom merchants here keep telling us, we've been utter crap all year. So maybe your arsenal friend shouldn't be too happy after all!!

Nomid

Really, I can see why an arsenal fan things look great. CL last 16 and most likely english team to make it to the quarters.

They are one point behind us and only a blind man would believe we play better than them. They are in great form at the right time of the year whilst we seem to have completely lost our form.

All their injured players are back or almost back and they just went to the home of the champions and beat them.

United on the other with many people here less than 18 months ago proclaiming we had the best squad in the league and on top of to have spent 220 million but we are playing like something out of the comic books mate and you need to take a reality pill.

I think they are in a better place than we are mate whether we like to admit it or not.

24 Jan 2015 01:36:29
Terrible performance and result. With the players on show should be dealing with a team like cambridge no disrespect to them. First point is Valencia. He needs selling and how he starts ahead of rafael is a joke. Valencia does not go by a man and his crossing is dog crap. He thrashes at the ball and seems unable to wrap his foot round it. So many of our attacks break down as a result of him failing to beat the full back or putting in a useless cross. How are the strikers meant to score if the delivery is so poor? Valencia for some time has been poor and if we had a quality player in his position it would make a huge difference. I would love rafael to step up but if not him there are options like clyne, coleman and cuadrado and so on.

Secondly is Phil Jones a player who fergie had such great words about but does and has not stepped up in a united shirt. I have kept defending him myself and keep believing he will come good but not so sure now. Perhaps he needs a real leader beside him who knows. Rojo i like and he would be the first choice centre half by some distance for me.

Falcao i feel sorry for he makes the runs he puts the effort in but without service what can he do, if he was missing sitters yes but we are not creating loads of chances. Given the service falcao will score goals no doubt. I have said it for a long time and it is so visible in our team we need a midfield general who bosses things that links play together and turns us from defence to attack and can set up and score goals. Someone like toure and the man best for the job would probably be the man we let go for something stupid quite stupidly pogba. The difference a player like that would make to the team would be massive.

Ander herrera should play and start more also he is tidy on the ball he can see a pass but he looks to go forward and move the ball quickly. We need at least one centre half ideally an experienced one like garay.hummels, godin. I would say we need two one experienced and one maybe a younger one like doria or veltman. Luke shaw when fit will be a solid left back i feel.

Centrally we can improve. Carrick is good but not world class. Fletcher i think is not good enough for utd anymore and how anderson is still there is beyond a joke. Clevs is another not good enough so that area needs a overhaul. Di maria looks great in bits and pieces but we need more and young adnan the same he needs to take his chances and show how good he is we all know he has the ability.

Young wilson is not ready to start and for me falcao needs to be bought. Rooney is important to the team. Rvp i'm unsure about. I keep expecting lvg to have us playing good football as he has done at previous clubs but it does not seem to be happening. The faith is still there i just want to see some positive signs.

What was fellaini role yesterday ?

Agree with all of that. If i was United owners, i would ask juve to name their price for pogba. He is exactly what we need. And while we're at it, get modric from Real.
Nomidfield has never been so obvious. We look years away from the likes of Chelsea city real bayern etc.

Nomidfield

I agree, reflecting on last night we created virtually nothing. I can't blame Falcao or Wilson when they are feeding off scraps.
I said a while ago we are moving the ball too slowly and it has to be said it appears we are playing football by numbers, not wanting to give the ball away so keep playing safely. The key to playing this way is having the ability to move opposition players around but we are not doing that because we are playing too slowly.
The area we need to invest in is central midfield (as well as defence) and I agree on Pogba but I have a feeling he is Madrid bound now we know he is learning Spanish. Our goals have totally dried up but midfield are not just failing to create but also not contributing any goals.
Games like last night need a Rooney type who is a bit of a street player and I thought it was a mistake not to play him.

We do have to invest in midfeild but i think it would be a big differance just starting with herrera

Unfortunately it seems like we are brought down to the level of football lower teams want to play. It is quite ugly and scrappy and not great to watch.

We need a right and left winger in the mold of Bale, Cuadrado, Reus. Our wing backs and in the case of last night's game fullbacks are rubbish and have no end product with the exception young, yep can't believe I said that LOL.

We also seem to have a huge distance on the pitch between the strikers and midfielders and not sure who was playing the number 10 role yesterday but there was almost no one ever there and hence all the over the top balls.

We could have used Rooney or Mata yesterday for some creativity in the number 10 role.

I thought Janusaj was much better than he has been.


All the top teams tend to stick to their first 11, we seem to have a different one every week.

Januzaj looked good for me as well GCU. The footwork for the chance he created for himself was incredible.

Too many players on different wave lengths and too far away from one another as you say.

We are all over the place (unfortunately not physically)

Redman. Agreed. The centre midfield is the area I will invest in before any other area. This is where the good and the great teams differ. The good midfield's can do a job most of the time, the great midfield's can find the pass in games like last night to unlock defences.
We have zero presence in midfield, and to make matters worse, Herrera doesn't get starts, and he should be starting ahead of all the other midfielders.
But there's no cheap solution, we have to bite the bullet and swallow our pride, and go cap in hand to juve for pogba. Also, modric will be amazing in our team. If we do this, then the rest will take care of itself.

Beast

Yeah he was much better than what he has looked like in the last few games.

Unfortunately we look like a team that can only score off second chances with the right bounce of the ball or need an individual moment of brilliance.

I am completely lost for words why we unable to create many scoring chances with what we have on the pitch and getting worried now.

The build up play has no penetration and hardly puts teams at discomfort and seems very easy to defend against even for a league 2 side.

Wrong time of the year to be losing form and if anything this is when we need to push on and play better as every game will be tough.

Unfortunately, the longer this carries on the more the pressure will be on the manager and the players, which in many cases makes them perform even worse
and can become a vicious cycle.

He needs to solve the puzzle soon and get us playing better and scoring again.