Manchester United Banter Archive November 24 2013

24 Nov 2013 22:24:09
What worries me is that we cannot finish teams off, what was Rooney doing? We are still in touching distance at 7 points, if we are within 5 points at the turn of the year then we are in with a shout. But I wouldn't like to bet on us winning it. Our midfield is terrible without Carrick. I don't know what has happened to Fellaini, Cleverly is not the answer, Anderson can't get a kick, Powell is apparently not ready, Fletcher will be a shadow of his former self. There isn't much to celebrate in the midfield. When Ferdinand was named on the team sheet I knew that we would be in trouble at the back and again he and Evans were shaky.

Not very content, a lot of work to be done. I wouldn't say that this is the worst United team I've seen as Barton has said. But it is one of the worst. Even though we have Fellaini now, we were stronger last year due to SAF.

I tend to agree Fresh, couldn't see us hammering Spurs 6-0 at the moment. Does anyone remember the days when our midfield was Beckham, Keane, Scholes and Giggs!

We have major problems in the midfield - carrick is the only play we have who can pass and keep things ticking along.
Cleverley is a hard worker but doesn't have a clue what he's doing when he has the ball.

Fellaini has turned from a nasty hard hitting scouse to a big massive cuddily teddy bear - how many times he lapped out of challenges and headers was unbelievable - good enough for everton not good enough for United.

Janujaz was awful yesterday - everything he did went AWOL - he's young and learning.

For a club like United the size, reputation and income to not have addressed a problem with the midfield for the past 3 years is criminal - why haven't they done it?

We have missed out on some pretty decent midfielders Sneijder, Fabregas, Modric, Moura, Hazard - The fans have been screaming for a midfield overhaul for donkeys but they are reluctant to put their hands in their pockets.

Frustrating times at OT :(

24 Nov 2013 19:53:25
good evening everyone,
what a great premership season this is turning out to be. nearly a third of the season gone, and wengers men on top, playing so well, this could be the time they stay there, man city starting to flex thier muscle again, chelsea getting thier defence better organised under mourinho, everton playing some terffic stuff under thier new manager, and utd just about hanging on at the top -just, but the big difference, I think this year is, the so called lower sides are better organised, play good football, and most have some real quality players in thier teams, I think the low 80 plus points will win the leauge this season, no game is an easy one for anyone, which makes it more exciting to watch.
ps, nice to see liverpool on course for thier main target this season, which is to finish within 25 points of utd, as all the football predictions by the utd experts on this page said they would not, he he.

24 Nov 2013 19:13:17
We badly missed Jones and Carrick in CM today.

I hope we can bring in at least one decent CM in January. Today, we played most of the game without a Midfield.

I'm not sure how we are going to cope with the next few games without Carrick. It could be painful.

I agree but think about it - how bad are things when Carrick is by a country mile, our number one, irreplaceable CMer?

He's a good player, Mike, but he's:

- Slow
- Has no physical presence
- Needs too much time on the ball
- Doesn't score
- Doesn't assist

Does that sound like a world-class midfielder? Carrick's very good, but wouldn't get into the starting 11 of any of the big teams in Europe and he's our best option by a long shot. It really puts things into perspective. He's a tidy passer who rarely makes mistakes, and that's all. {Ed004's Note - Which of those boxes do Busquets and alonso tick? Carrick doesn't need too much time on the ball he can play the ball first time,and Martinez but he offers a physical presence}

Ed004 - Busquets gets stuck in. He's not my type of player, in fact I hate him, but he does a job. IMO, Carrick is too slow in possession, but again, just my opinion. This wasn't really meant as a dig at Carrick, more of a dig at how bad the rest of our CM options are when he is head-and-shoulders above them all.

He wouldn't have got into the starting 11 when Scholes and Keane were around, which IMO was our heyday in terms of a CM partnership.

Red sky

Busquets is playing with Xavi, Iniesta and Fabregas. Carrick is playing with Cleverley

Apart from that, they have similar skill sets. Busquets is stronger while Carrick is better at intercepting.

Busquets is not all that, I could slot into that midfield and look half decent.

24 Nov 2013 19:02:01
Stop fretting. Anyone who saw the opera guy singing "Blue Moon" before the City game will realise no matter how poorly we play we are not as bad as that complete laughing stock. Form is temporary etc etc.

Bit of a hollow victory, that mate.
I'd have 10 opera singers before a game if we were tonking a top 10 side 6-0 after it.

I'm know it is mate but somethings got to cheer me this season. City destroyed them like they did us.
Besides I watched Utd through the Sexton years so that prepares you for anything

Opera singer? It was Jason manford the comedian and big city fan. Talk about misunderstanding something.

I still don't think we'll finish lower than 3rd, but if we genuinely have ambition to be a top club for the foreseeable future, we need at LEAST 6 new players.

RB, LB, CB, CM x 2, WING x 2, and a forward if Rooney or RVP leave. And don't be surprised if De Gea leaves in the next couple of years, meaning a top-class GK as well.

24 Nov 2013 18:41:03
We were the second best team today, and played with no conviction. Moyes is still trying to cling onto leads, rather than close games out and seems to have learned nothing since he took over. Rooney should have been sent of early on, so even when the decisions go our way we struggle to kill off an utterly average team.

City annihilated Spurs today, what's the betting they best us next weekend? At least we have Giggs for another season and hopefully he can use his bus pass to cut travel costs for away games.

Yet another toothless, drab performance. Leaky defence, no creativity, no spark, no urgency, too much chaff in the squad.

If we lost Vidic for the entire season, our goal difference would be abysmal.

Whats a scarier thought?

1) Playing Barca, Bayern, Real etc right now?

2) How much money needs to be spent on this squad?

24 Nov 2013 18:03:05
Someone please tell me we can recall Nick Powell!? He's good enough to start and better than our current options!

24 Nov 2013 17:57:58
I had to get this off my chest, I believe that Tom Cleverley's performance is one of the worst performances I've seen from a Manchester United player.

A central midfielder, with 40 passes, 1 long ball, no key passes, no tackles, 4 fouls and 2 interceptions is unacceptable.

But statistics don't tell the whole story. Cleverley did nothing and even gifted Cardiff a couple of chances.

I lost a lot of respect for Moyes today for not substituting him earlier. Anderson was not put on because he is not as good defensively as Cleverley, but this is seriously disappointing.

I feel bad for Fellaini who actually had a decent game and was running around everywhere trying to affect the game.

He also proved with England that he is a very, very limited player and if we had bought Herrera this summer, Cleverley would not have touched a ball this season

Fellani is a worse signing than Prunier contributes nothing together will Cleverly even championship teams will fancy rolling Utd over. Does anyone actually think Moyes buying anyone in January will solve anything the man is a loser with no experience of winning. He cannot attract even mediocre players to the club Liverpool are probably a more attractive proposition for foreign players now than Utd. Losing is bad enough but to watch a team so boring and unadventurous is torture seriously makes watching England look appealing until Cleverly, smelling and well beck get a game for them too. 2 years of nothing until Moyes has be shown the door, Cannot believe any United side could make Liverpool look decent, well done Moyes killing the club.

No one came out of that with anything to be happy about absolute crap, we were hounded by cardiff who were first to every ball and we got outpassed by them.ferdinand is finished, evra can't defend, evans was poor both run ragged by campbell, cleverly plenty of running but no quality, felaini too slow caught in possesion while trying to think what to do, smalling gave away possesion with crap passes half a dozen times and we end up with a 40 year old coming on who lost possesion straight away trying to dribble past people even though everyone knows he can't do it any more.rooney should of been off very lucky boy and then fluffs his lines in the last seconds.our season saviour adnan had a shocker but will learn that you can't perform every week at his age.cardiff had team spirit and passion, we looked devoid of it

Agreed, Cleverly is very limited, Not only as a player but when asked to add to a team he brings nothing as an attacking threat and very little defensively, he does carry the ball and maintain possession well.

It is very frustrating that Moyes brought on Giggs for Januzaj instead of Nani or Anderson, The team didn't play well today and Rooney was lucky to stay on the pitch after an off the ball incident.

It will continue to be a difficult season if City stay performing like they have done today and hopefully Tottenham are as bad next week as they were today. As it seemed to be a combination of the two that caused the result.

I am aware that Giggs was born in Cardiff and it was his hometown but to be brought on when we clearly were not "cruising" is crazy. He is not the player he used to be and I think he has received enough sentimentality from the club for his services. He has the record for the most appearances (952) for United and I doubt that will be broken any time soon. But he needs to step aside because he is not providing the quality he used to.

Moyes has his work cut out for him and If he doesn't do anything in January he will not be helping his or the teams chances for success.

Right. some players are really pain in a**s to watch. they get u heavily frustrated. like evra. always at fault for goals.
Ferdinand who now mostly fails to defend in set pieces.
And GIGGS. no comments.

One thing I noticed today was whenever Cleverley or Fellaini was on the ball in midfield, there wasn't anyone around them to pass it to apart from each other. If you look at City today, they had players all around the midfielders willing to accept a pass from all directions. Our midfielders no matter who they are always seem to be isolated from the rest of the team. We need to see the defence push up, the wingers come inside and we need to see both strikers dropping in at times. I have a very horrible feeling that even if we sign someone like Herrera this winter, it's going to be the same and not make a major difference. I think it's still a case of being outnumbered in the middle rather than just the quality of midfielder. Better midfielders will of course help and I am all for buying them, but I think it may not make a great deal of difference until we chance the way we play.

Sydney

Change the way we play? We have just appointed Moyes who seems set on playing two up front with an inadequate support structure. Moyes needs to outline the direction he is taking us in, how he wants us to play. It should be obvious by now and perhaps even more worrying to us all is that it is obvious. There does appear to be an attitude of get in front and hold on.

That is not the Manchester United way and it won't win Championships

I agree with that Red Man.

24 Nov 2013 13:51:57
Supposedly RvP is injured for today? It seems to be a rumour that pops up before most games now, can anyone confirm?

If so then hopefully Moyes will finally play Kagawa in behind Rooney with Januzaj on the left.

I hear RvP is out, Keane is in.

Rvp hasn't traveled

I am hoping to see a front 4 of Januzaj, Kagawa, Zaha and Rooney but I wouldn't hold your breathe as Moyes seems to really dislike playing Kagawa there.

No Rafael, Vidic, Jones, Carrick, Kagawa or RvP. Some big characters missing there.

24 Nov 2013 04:49:23
Guys do you think Nick Powell can make an impact next year for us?

I personally think he can be the next Lampard. A true goalscoring midfielder who can pass and score.

Nick powell has massive potential and is having a good season by all accounts. He could well end up in our squad for next season so although we need midfield reinforcements I would hope we only sign one of either gundogan, vidal, fabregas, koke in order of preference for me.I do know they are not the same type of players I just think if we get more than one it could stifle the progress off young powell.I hope he's the next scholes rather than lampard.

Given the state of our midfield, especially now with Carrick out for a while I think we should really consider recalling him from his loan now. He has all the attributes to be a top player. I know he is still young, but I would say he us every bit as ready as Januzaj is for the first team, and he is definitely more ready physically that Adnan. I'm not knocking his loan because he is gaining good experience which could be essential for us this season if we don't manage to sign reinforcements in January. You know the saying, if they're good enough they're old enough.

Nick Powell is nothing like Lampard.

Lampard is a player without much talent. No disrespect to the lad, he's a legend of the English game and reached world class status. He was never the most physically capable ( like Gerrard ) or the most technically gifted ( like Scholes ).

On the other hand, he is one of the most hardworking players ever and knows how to play to his strengths.

He might also be the smartest player to ever grace a pitch, with an estimated IQ of over 150, and it is seen in his game, he reads the game like no other and knows exactly what to do and when to do it.

Powell on the other hand has talent in abundance. He is very athletic and skillful. He is also quite strong and there is a versatility in his game, he is very complete especially for someone his age.

He can tackling, passing, shooting, dribbling, heading. He's got it all

I see a bit of Gerrard in him.

Honestly I thought that Nick Powell was going to emerge this season at United but he got sent out on loan and has been brilliant anyway at Wigan, I think he could either play off the striker or in a more central position ala Lampard and Gerrard. He has all the tools to be a huge success he just has to be give game time and stay injury free for a sustained amount of time. Imagine a midfield of Fellaini and Powell with Januzaj, Rooney, Zaha and RVP in front next year.

If I were honest I'd hope he could be as close as possible to either, both world class in their time

When we signed him SAF said he had a lot of similar qualities and playing style as a young Paul Scholes and could be his natural successor. He's done well at Wigan so far although most games he's played it's been out of position as an out and out striker. It's good he can fill that role but ideally we want him getting more experience playing right through the middle from a deeper area. Now that Will Keane will soon be at Wigan as well, maybe Nick should be able to get more game time in midfield.

Oz, Powell is a number ten. SAF only started talking about him being a deeper midfielder because he was again being criticised for not buying the midfielder we need. Powell played further forward for Crewe as that is his natural position. I think he could do Lampard's job for Chelsea no problem, but he should not be playing where Scholes was playing for us from 30 years old onwards. {Ed001's Note - he played everywhere in midfield and up front for Crewe mate. It has yet to be decided where his best position will be, though I do agree that Fergie was suggesting playing him there purely because of the lack of anyone else in the squad to play there.}

Ed001, I think he will be a number ten, perhaps slightly deeper and will burst forward a lot like Lampard did for Chelsea early on. I do not see him sitting in front of the back four being the out ball for the defenders. Where do you believe he will succeed at? What position? Thanks. {Ed001's Note - personally I think he can play anywhere and it will all depend on where a manager needs him to play over the next couple of years. I think he will settle into that position by playing it on a consistent basis. I don't think he has had the chance to settle into a position yet and that is holding him back, similar to Jones.}

Ed001, it's hard to believe he has not long turned 19. Still a kid. Jones is still just 21. I think both need to be played in their best positions. Sadly at the bigger clubs it can be difficult to drop more experienced players for these guys.

What do you make of Adnan Ed? Never heard your opinion on him. {Ed001's Note - potential is frightening, but he needs to be managed to stop it going to his head. His feet will have to be kept on the floor, he is at one of the big clubs in world football, plaudits are being flung at him from every direction, it would be easy to think he has made it. Macheda made that mistake, though I have to say, from what I have been told, I don't see the same happening to Adnan. I think it will be how he responds to Moyes' training that will make or break him. He is not a big powerhouse like Jones, the heavy training load could affect him, especially as the season wears on. That will affect his form and he will need to be mentally strong to get on with it. As far as ability is concerned, he has so much talent that he has no issues there.}

Thanks for your opinions Ed.