Manchester United Banter Archive October 24 2018

 

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24 Oct 2018 16:13:37
Away from the result, anyone feel as if yesterday's performance could be a turning point for Lindelof? Or is the team just too all over the place for him to actually perform consistently?

Believable8 Unbelievable2

24 Oct 2018 16:47:54
I think his performances in Europe have generally been good, he needs to bring that form into the Premier League as if he plays like last night it would be a massive help for us.

Agree6 Disagree0

24 Oct 2018 17:31:13
Think the continous changing of the team has made it difficult for him, seems like the type of player that had to come into a settled team (defence) alongside an experienced CB, andreading of the game was excellent yesterday night by the way.

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24 Oct 2018 10:12:31
Poor performance again last night. The simple truth is that we lack quality. How many of our players would get into Juve's side? All over the pitch we were second best. Are the Board content to trundle along or are they prepared to invest in quality players. Even our players with potential such as Rashford and Martial don't feature against elite teams.

Believable4 Unbelievable1

24 Oct 2018 12:09:46
Should they back jose with signing players.

Two of the worst players on the pitch last night, matic and lukaku are joses untouchable players.

Fred and dalot can't get a look in, bailly has been banished for good it seems, micky has been sold, sanchez has been awful.

The only good signing mourinho has made is pogba and even then he's been picking fights with him at every turn.

Mourinho talked a good games in his post match press conference but everyone can see through it and realise he is just deflecting the blame.

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24 Oct 2018 12:11:54
Matic cost £50m, Pogba £75m, Lukaku £75m, Lindelof £30m

That's our spine from last night, all Jose purchases.

Best keeper in the world in nets.

Two of the brightest talents out wide (I don't rate Rashford at all though) . Shaw arguably playing the best football of his career.

Totally outclassed. I don't think money is the problem, waste of money, negative tactics, no team cohesion that is the problem.

We play like this almost every match, Juventus just showed us all how poor we really are.

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24 Oct 2018 12:18:48
Rashford nor Martial are intelligent enough, they constantly run into dead ends, and the end product of Rashford is shocking.

Its not just them though, the team as a whole is terrible and unbalanced.

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24 Oct 2018 12:57:57
Agree with everyone above. Another thing is defending set pieces, we look like the worst team at it even though we have tall strong players all over the pitch.

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24 Oct 2018 13:47:34
Agree with all the comments above.

Was content that we only lost 1-0, how sad is that!

Don’t want to jump on the bandwagon but Rashford and Martial looked clueless against top quality. They are indecisive and give the ball away time after time. They only look really dangerous when we get a team on the break and the ball is played in behind.

Lukaku’s poor touch was exposed against top class defenders.

De Gea was great.

Lindelof was solid and so that was encouraging.

Our play when we have the ball was embarrassing as was our lack of ability to press them when they had the ball.

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24 Oct 2018 15:26:52
cant really argue with any of the above but I believe that a change in tactics would improve our performances. When we press (second half vs Chelsea and during some parts of the game last night) we do look dangerous. The issue is that it takes us going 1 or 2 goals behind before the manager let's the players off the leash.

Juve were the better team but when pressed and put under pressure they did look a bit shaky, the problem is we only do this in patches and it is usually one or two pressing not the whole team. City and Liverpool, with the way they play would dominate that Juve side in my opinion.

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24 Oct 2018 15:42:21
I agree with most what's been said. However, I disagree that Rashford and Martial can't do it against top sides. First off Martial was excellent last weekend against Chelsea. The problem they suffer from is our negative approach to games against the top sides. They are offensive players, how are they expected to stand out when we only had 2 shots on target and 6 shots in total. None of them a real good chance, more half chances.

You can't say the gun isn't any good if you have no ammunition for it.

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24 Oct 2018 17:51:53
Hard to get shots on target when our offensive players are playing like last night.

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24 Oct 2018 18:21:05
Rashford and Martial both kept giving the ball away last night with passes that were not on.

When presented with the Juve defence they had no idea of what to do and how to open them up.

Ashley Young went at Sandro several times in the 2bd half and got some crosses in and he is over 30. Why wasn’t Rashford with his pace doing that all night?

Would Giggs, Beckham, Kanchelskis or Ronaldo of not known what to do against Juve?

Need to stop making excuses for the players and also having a go at the managers tactics as the only problem.

Jose tactics and style of play is only part of the problem.
He has had successful teams in the past where players have believed in him but that is not the case with the squad at Utd.

Not a fan of Jose but I do try to look at our situation from different perspectives.

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24 Oct 2018 09:11:59
first time i can honestly say i fancy everton to win at old trafford this week, if am wrong ill be first on to admit it so not here on a wind up just i honestly think we can capitalise on this blip you seem to be having and finally take some points from your place.

Believable2 Unbelievable9

24 Oct 2018 09:29:56
Blip?

We can within a whisker of beating the last unbeaten EPL team this season away from home, and gave a decent account against one of the best teams in the world last night.

The last two games have been encouraging. I think we can handle Everton at home.

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24 Oct 2018 10:04:55
A decent account last night? We was outclassed from start to finish, decent just doesn’t cut it at CL level I’m afraid. We have won 1 in 7 and are midway down the league. Again just changing manager won’t solve all our issues but results just cannot keep carrying on this way, we aren’t even close to the so called other top 5 teams. There is suck a lack of quality in control of the ball its frightening, how long can we say confidence, these are highly paid Manchester United players, sick of watching us atm, sick of all of us accepting mediocrity as ok. I’m not advocating sacking but we need to get our house in order and we need to do it quick as we have stood still while the rest of sailed by us.

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24 Oct 2018 11:24:10
Liverpool and City are both still unbeaten Danny.

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24 Oct 2018 11:25:42
WRD - We've got the best goal keeper in the world, a World Cup winning central midfielder that was a stand out performer for the opposition, we've got international players in almost every position. Merely saying we were outclassed only reinforces the narrative. The brutal truth is there was a lack of desire and intensity to our game. When we stand off Everton in the same manner at the weekend will you be telling me they have outclassed us as well?!

Once we add the required work rate, effort, attitude, hunger, intensity and desire to our play then we can start talking about quality. That was a disgrace in effort and application last night there was nothing decent about it. Juventus decided to step off the gas in the second half and were content to conserve energy and hit us on the break. We wouldn't have scored if we were still playing now.

Let's match their effort and application first and then we can start having conversations about being out classed. Last night wasn't a one off a lack of pressing and endeavour has been endemic whilst Jose has been in charge and it's been even more evident this season. At first I thought it was the players but this must be a tactic.

I don't even mind us dropping deep but as soon as the ball gets into our half the ball must be pressed quickly and aggressively with the whole team working together. This passive standing off, watching, walking, marking space and not tracking runners hoping they will run into somebody else's zone is simply unacceptable. Our players were hypnotised in the first half, heads spinning because nobody took responsibility and closed anyone down. They simply watched as Juventus passed the ball unchallenged and refused to track runners preferring to stay in the comfort of their nice, cosy, warm, piece of space whilst Juventus just powered through the gaps. If you think that's decent then we have a different definition of what is acceptable on a football field.

1-0 flattered us, Juventus let us off the hook, I doubt you'd be saying there was anything decent about the performance if we'd got beat 5-0 like we deserved.

Without a change of emphasis results will not improve. Last night was not good enough and it had nothing to do with Juventus sadly we've seen it all too often before. Be braver, work harder, press faster, let us dream better days lie ahead.

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24 Oct 2018 11:30:53
WRD - Please accept my apologies mate it wasn't you that suggested last night was a "decent account". Lesson learnt I must read posts more carefully. I'm still fuming about last night and probably shouldn't post in anger. I will retreat into the shadows I've had my say. Sorry!

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24 Oct 2018 12:26:21
danny i would say this is a blip mate this a worst start to a season i have known from united, talking about almost beating chelsea and doing well in defeat! are u sure your a united fan mate because any united fan i no is not happy with either result, like it or not i have to admit your one of the biggest clubs in the world mate and your content with a draw against chelsea and ONLY losing 1 nil at home in the champions league, shocking mate if this isn't a blip then this is your standard now is that what your saying if so its a sad day for united just accepting the rubbish jose is feeding u on a weekly basis, anyway lads good luck for the season just not sunday haha.

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24 Oct 2018 14:42:47
Im with you DLIB, the effort to chase and put pressure on the ball is none existent, and there is very little running off the ball when in possession, the players spend that much time sitting off and watching the opposition they should be made to buy a ticket.

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24 Oct 2018 15:34:15
No worries DLIB, we’ve all posted in anger but plenty you say in entirely accurate so don’t retreat to the shadows. We wasn’t in their league.

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24 Oct 2018 16:32:08
WRD, fair enough if you don't advocate sacking, but our manager has been there for two and a half years now and this is how it is. How much longer do you give him to sort it out? Do you think he is responsible for this or just a victim of a bigger cluster? Would a new, brighter, more progressive manager get us going again or just run into the same insurmountable problems?

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24 Oct 2018 20:19:20
who would be your ideal replacement if jose was to go? wpuld you go woth giggs or would u want a big name, i think goggs would be a great appointment now like knows the club, knows what it means to play for your club and has wales playing some good stuff and is willing to bring youth threw.

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24 Oct 2018 23:26:06
I think jose has to take the majority of the blame tbh as he sets the team and tactics. I don’t advocate sacking manager after manager, it’s not worked and I’m not convinced another manager would greatly change things. One area things could improve is attack minded performances but until the club gets an identity and implements that at every lever of the club, wether a DoF comes in or whatever we won’t go anywhere. The club needs to sort itself out top to bottom and plan long term to earn otssjf back to the top. Maybe Jose has to leave for that process to truly start I dunno I just know my club is in trouble atm.

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25 Oct 2018 00:49:42
Jardim for me johny. He’s available and has shown in the past he is good with young players with potential. Has title credentials by winning the league with Monaco and his teams play attractive football. Some may say it’s a risk and the squad is poor. But he would definitely get more out of our attacking players. It’s worth the risk when we serve up drivel like we did yesterday.

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25 Oct 2018 05:43:52
he is a good shout park, only other one would maybe be a eddie howe and hope he steps up but i just think giggs is the man to take u forward, think he's gunna be a top club manager and whoever takes a gamble is gunna get a long term success, would any of yous take nuno from wolves?

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24 Oct 2018 09:08:36
Men against boys, outclassed, simply too good all words I've heard uttered from the apologists and experts but I I'm not buying any of it.

How many times do we have to take our seats at OT and watch in disbelief as Utd just stand and watch the opposition play. Where is the urgency, where is the pressure, where is the hunger, the desire, the intensity, the pride?!

It's easy to give plaudits to Juventus they are a quality team, but I've seen us stand off Derby, Wolves and even Newcastle in recent weeks and they've all out classed us for large periods of the game as we've just stood, watched and admired.

This is not football or not as I recognise it anyway. I don't know what that was last night but a 1-0 defeat actually feels like a decent result and perhaps that's the saddest part of this saga.

That was a cowardly, lazy display and in all honesty I wasn't that impressed with Juventus. They were afforded the freedom of OT, we didn't lay a finger on them never mind a tackle. Inferior teams have come to OT this season and left us thinking we'd been playing Brazil. The truth is we made them look good by allowing them to play. If they can move the ball and create space under real pressure, when you press the ball quickly and aggressively, when the crowd can react to the desire and intensity of the team and create an atmosphere worthy of a true European occasion then we can afford Juventus the plaudits they deserve. A really good team would have given us exactly what we deserved last night, a real humbling not just a token one.

The scary thing is we could have nicked a draw from that car crash almost proving the ends justify the means.

The only thing missing was hoof ball tactics to Fellaini to fully complete the embarrassment. Ironically we never looked like scoring any other way.

Jose will no doubt fall asleep dreaming of a Saudi Prince but before he laments a gulf in class and lauds their superstars he should be reminded that Pjanic and Matuidi (combined) cost less than the unused Fred. I'm sick of being told our players aren't good enough maybe he should look closer to home before making contemptuous remarks about his own players. These are just excuses and smoke screens.

We can forgive a lack of class what we can't forgive is a lack of effort. I don't know if it's the players or the tactics but we've waited patiently over the last few years for a European heavyweight to come to OT and the occasion just passed us all by. We didn't even compete and I'm left with the feeling this morning is there any point in us actually being in the competition if we're just there to make up the numbers and take advantage of the huge financial incentives on offer.

I'm becoming despondent and came away from the game last night with the feeling I'm being mugged off. Why should I part with my hard earned cash to watch a team that can't even be bothered to press the ball never mind muster a shot or create a chance. You won't win any game of football against any opposition playing like that. Have we not learnt anything from the Derby and Wolves horror shows. It suits the narrative to praise Juventus to cover up for our own self inflicted inadequacies and I hate that. Last night had nothing to do with ability and everything to do with spirit, desire, attitude, commitment, hunger, intensity, energy, intensity and pride. Once we get those aspects of the game right then we can talk about ability. Even the very best teams can't win without the requisite hard work and endeavour. I can hardly wait for our next game. No doubt Everton will outclass us if they are afforded the same time and space on the ball. What will the next excuse be then?

Believable3 Unbelievable1

24 Oct 2018 10:12:38
That’s what happens when a plc comes up against a football club. One team has invested in infrastructure and is following a plan. The other is throwing money around thinking that they can buy their way out of the mire it’s in. As Ed002 has said, we did seem to have a plan which was ruined. I’m not going into that because I do think LVG’s position was untenable and a change had to be made.

We were schooled last night. Second half so us go for it but we just did not have the quality to take advantage. Or is it a case of our manager not utilising the quality we have? I don’t know. Juve hardly got out of first gear. They have young so much space on the right during the second half as they knew he couldn’t deliver a ball to hurt them. Why on earth did we not go after cancelo? He was arguably the best player on the pitch. We lack direction and are currently ambling in no mans land.

Yesterday showed how far behind we are europe’s Elite. This is not a money issue as we have bags of it. It’s how we are spending it. This is also an identity crisis. We need to return to our roots and traditions. Pacy wingers, two strikers up top and a solid defence. Teams should fear coming to old Trafford as they know they will be under the cosh from the minute go. Yesterday Juve will never get an easier away game at a ‘top’ European side. It’s embarrassing. We have shown that we can play. The second half against Chelsea has shown that. We are so inconsistent it’s infuriating. I don’t think Jose can improve is anymore. If we aren’t going to back him then we need to shake hands and let him go. No point keeping him if we do not buy into what he wants to do.

A last note on allegri - I can't see how anybody would not want to have him as manager of united. Yes his side isn’t as free flowing as a sarri side or a pep side. But he is a damn good manager and tactically one of the best, if not the best. No guarantee he would have done wonders for us, but I’m sure we would have an identity and style 3 years down the line. And that’s the issue with Jose. 3 years down the line and he still doesn’t know his best side, the style of play we are trying to enforce.

Our football is so reactionary. We never take initiative and pressurise the opposition. Too much respect. We are too timid. We had a dynamic front three yesterday. We should have been pressing the two centre halves last night. They are both world class but they are aging. They will never have an easier night. Bitterly disappointed tbh. But can hardly say I am surprised.

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24 Oct 2018 10:23:16
Forgot to say great post DLIB. We are simply just making up the numbers in the competition. I came away feeling that we did not deserve to be in the comp. sure we qualified for it last year. But both arsenal and Chelsea would have given a far better account of themselves last night had they been in our position. At least they would have gone for it and posed a threat. I feel so detached from the club at the moment.

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24 Oct 2018 16:36:00
DLIB and Park, totally agree particularly about feeling despondent. There doesn't seem to be a plan on the pitch, a style, a way of playing. As a result, the players look hesitant and uncertain of what they should be doing. Then they stop doing anything. I think they are despondent as well.

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25 Oct 2018 15:21:55
DLIB
Said it all in your first three words.

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24 Oct 2018 09:06:59
Jose making a point about how good juve cb's are and I agree but the irony is for me Lindelof was probably our man of the match.

Hindsight is wonderful and at the time I had no problem with Joses starting 11 but surely in the first half Jose must of realised our midfield was giving them too much time and space.

The easiest tactical change would of been to take matic and mata off in the 2nd half and bring on some tenacity with herrera and Fred or andreas.

I don't understand not changing what isn't working, can only think Jose was trying to make a point at the expense of actually trying to get some points from the game.

How many coaches told us lot when we were playing for our school team it doest matter if you loose as long as you did everything you can to win. I don't see us doing everything we can to win and that is indeed from top to bottom not just a one man problem but unfortunately for jose he is the easiest problem to fix.

Just my rant, this is the place to vent the frustrations of being a united fan.

Believable1 Unbelievable0

24 Oct 2018 08:46:57
Ed. Quick question. What's the deal with Fred, he just can't seem to get a game. Is the love affair all but over already?

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{Ed001's Note - he has a first touch that makes Lukaku's look good, he is simply not good enough to hold down a place.}

24 Oct 2018 10:17:31
Was always going to take him time to adjust. Especially when with our mayhem of a side where there is no style of play or consistency in selection. I do think there is a player in there. Remember it did seem like Guardiola was interested at some stage like season. I do think if he had moved to any of the other top 6 teams he would be flourishing right now. Let’s hope his confidence hasn’t been dented. Seems like Jose may not fancy him. Hopefully the next manager will. Would much rather see him in midfield than matic.

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24 Oct 2018 07:51:46
Juventus were grest at breaking at high speed on the counter attack.
Their full backs provided extra width.
Thats something Jose needs to allow Young and Shaw to do more.
Romelu Heskey is not playing well.
Long balls pinged to him don't work.
We just lose possession.
I thought we played ok. Rashofrd and Marital up front against Bonucci and Chiellini would be better.
Matic just looks slow. Herrera would have added more energy and dynamism to the midfield.
Could Chong have made his CL debut yesterday, yes he should have.
The difference between tactics was apparent.
Juventus free flowing quick to counter. United, moved the ball around well, but gave the ball away needlessly amd more often than not, in the final third.

Believable0 Unbelievable1

24 Oct 2018 14:42:21
I can't be the only one who thinks Lukaku looks a tad overweight.

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Review Of The Day 24th October 2018

24 Oct 2018 07:29:01
{Ed's Note - Ed001 has posted a new article entitled, Review Of The Day 24th October 2018

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