Manchester United Banter Archive September 24 2013

24 Sep 2013 22:50:17
AJH

I don't know if you have seen the Wenger interview, the reporter is french.

It is a must see and brilliant interview. Very interesting stuff and insight into players like Yaya Toure, who he rates as the best player in the PL.

Talks about Cavani, Falcao and just a host of stuff. Also interesting stuff about transfer windows, how many players you can bring in transfer windows and the risks associated with how you go about it.

24 Sep 2013 23:29:11
Hey guys 1st tym poster I'm frm south africa and luv the site, visit it atleast 5 tyms a day, keep up the gud wrk eds and regulars posters

24 Sep 2013 22:17:28
If I was in charge I would offload Young, Hernandez, Rio, Evra in the summer with Reus, Baines, Herrera coming in and promote Lingard and Januzaj.

What would everyone else do?

I'd offload Young, Rio, Nani, Evra and one of Welbeck or Hernandez as I can't see us keeping 4 strikers happy when we only play with one striker.

I'd then promote Januzaj, Lingard and Powell into the first team.

I'd buy Reus, Clasie and Alex Sandro.

I'd get rid of Young, Rio, Evra and one of Nani or Valencia. If Hernandez was unhappy i'd be forced to sell him and promote Henriquez. I'd also promote Januzaj, Lingard, Powell and Michael Keane as I don't think Rio needs replacing other than from within.

I'd then go out and buy Reus, Coentrao and Marchisio.

I think we need to spend 2 big chunks on 2 high quality midfielders who will be the spine of the team for the next 5 to 10 years. Carrick is not going to be around forever and Fellaini and Cleverly are not what you build your team around.

PSG has both Verrati and Matuidi. will probably cost us 70 million quid but probably not for sale I would assume.

Need a left winger and left back and sale of valencia, young, anderson, Evra Welbeck should pay for that.

Young, nani, Valencia, Anderson, Rio. Buy Reus, gundogan, hummels.
And while we are at it with Dortmund, replace Moyes with Klopp.

No Midfield

We need two dominant midfielders. Look back at all the great teams of the past or even current united and other European top teams. They all have a midfield duo that dominates the opposition.

I would trade left wing for a Vidal/ Matuidi combination or Vidal/Verrati combination.

we need a midfield duo that has 15 goals in them, which we don't. They load up the wings on us as everyone knows that is our route to attacking them and nothing ever thorough the middle of the pitch.

24 Sep 2013 21:04:27
Glazers' lawyers throw in the towel over the listing of Old Trafford as an Asset of Community Value

Only time will tell just how significant this turns out to be but it is certainly a sweet victory for Manchester United fans over the Glazers as their lawyers throw in the towel over opposition to the listing of Old Trafford as an Asset of Community Value following its nomination by MUST - the Manchester United Supporters Trust

News reached us tonight that Trafford Councl has received written notice from the solicitors acting for MUFC in relation to this matter that they have withdrawn their request for a review of the decision to list the stadium.

The Council will not now be required to review the decision and the listing will stand.

MUST chief executive Duncan Drasdo greeted the news with satisfaction saying:
"We're delighted that the owners have taken the decision to back down over their opposition to the listing of Old Trafford as an Asset of Community Value. We were always very confident of our case having taken pro bono advice from the top law firms in the UK.

"We've previously successfully challenged on several other issues including an appeal to thr Office of Fair Trading over the Season Ticket terms and conditions (then amended) and also some aspects of the Automatic Cup Scheme. This shows that supporters, when they are well advised and well organised by their supporters' trust, can win even against owners with far greater resources and with the Club machine at their disposal."

"We hope this will offer further encouragement to the supporters' trusts at other clubs and indeed provide extra impetus to Government to push forward boldy with meaningful reform of football to encourage greater participation by supporters in ownership of their clubs."

At the time of the original decision Communities Secretary Eric Pickles said:
"I am delighted by the decision of Trafford Borough Council to list the home of Manchester United Football Club, as an Asset of Community Value. The Community Right to Bid brought in by this Government, gives communities the opportunity to retain land and buildings for use and ownership by local people who value them most."

"Many of our great cities - including Manchester - are recognised around the world because of the sporting institutions which represent them."

"The new community rights we have introduced have insured that even a global iconic institution like Manchester United will remain rooted in the community in which it was founded thanks to the actions of the Manchester United Supporters Trust. I look forward to other communities following this wonderful example."



You see there is reason to smile and so much more important than a result against City

A sense of perspective is a wonderful thing. Great news.

StevieK

Great News.

24 Sep 2013 20:55:51
Moyes wants to be the hero playing English players like wellbeck young cleverly Ferdinand smalling in my opinion none of these are good enough for Man U . Smalling is like Ferdinand poor concentration. Man U need a new manager Laudrop my first choice
and should buy 10 players and give youth a chance januzi, Powell, Zaha, keane, lingatd henriques. For sale wellbeck, young Anderson Valencia Nani. Ferdinand, Giggs, evra should retire.
Players to buy. Royce's, munain, drexler Herrera modric contrau, Williams from crystal palace, Baxter, gundogen.

Smalling is like Ferdinand poor concentration? Are you an actual United fan?

Its man utd

I don't care what anyone says. An English team needs an English core, and I'm not even bloody English!

StevieK

Not a United fan he's a blagger. Broke the golden rule by saying Man U TWICE in the same post! Any real United fan would not call us Man U in a million years Lol.

StevieK

The reality is that there are so many average english players that the ones that are better get overhyped and overpriced. They stand out because the rest are so average and in many cases you can go get a player with equal qualities for half the price.

I think it is a novel idea but not at the expense of quality of football and results on the pitch and stupid cost to the club.

Thats like 8 players you have mentioned there half of them or more are in the same position it isn't championship manager mate. Plus when have you seen United go out and buy 8 players because I haven't, only a couple we need.

The majority of the players we need another centre midfielder we need to sit alongside carrick/fellaini who has pace and can create and carry the ball forward and either sign baines/coentrao in january or give even buttner a fabio a chance.

I agree totally GCU. But even the great Jose wasn't that stupid that he didn't have an English spine in his first Chelsea team.

A long season in England, especially in the depths of winter, is about hard work, team spirit and commitment, and I think English/British/Irish players understand better the unique demands of the league.

It just happens to be at the minute, there's a dearth of top English talent.

Damon86

That is the Mourinho model :)

24 Sep 2013 20:48:58
'Shappy'.

You said further down the page that in an ideal world these would be next seasons wingers:

Valencia, Reus, Zaha, Januzaj and Lingard.

I agree, but what about Kagawa? Where do you envisage him playing? I'd like Kagawa right and Reus left ideally. I also am unsure whether we will attract anyone else from Dortmund given how poorly Kagawa has been handled.

24 Sep 2013 21:21:47
Kagawa isn't a winger so I deliberately left him out. He can play wide the same as Rooney RvP and Welbeck can but that isn't his position.

Kagawa imo will play a number of roles this season, sometimes in the hole, sometimes on the left and sometimes maybe alittle deeper.

I still question Rooney's long term future at the club and I will continue to until he signs a new contract. He will only have a year left on his contract at the end of the season and if he hasn't signed a new contract by then then he will have to be sold. In which place Kagawa could take his position or prove himself in another position or move to a different club.

24 Sep 2013 20:31:17
Anyone read bellegue interview today.

He reckons City will win the league by a comfortable margin and thinks they might do the double in CL.

Also watched an interview with Wenger on Al Jazeera, which by the looks of it is from last week before the city game, and he says City on paper have an incredible squad and incredible fire power and talked about the Manchester derby as being the first test of the season that will show United's strength and City's.

SAF was worth between 15 & 20 points a season. Last year we won the league because of SAF & other teams under performing. But we have yet again been outspent by our rivals. I think that only SAF would have a chance of winning the league with our squad of players. So I think the next two years will be for DM to try & improve the squad but I do not expect to win anything as we have too many average players (as was shown on Sunday).
Ok this is a list of teams & how much they have spent in the last 11 years on transfers – how much was made on selling players.
Chelsea 699.4
Man City 556.1
Real M 555.9
Barca 353.7
Bayern 274.5
Liverpool 250
United 213.6
Spurs 195.6
We have spent 8 million more than spurs!
We have spent 27.1% of what Chelsea have spent
We spent less than Liverpool
Paris St G have spent 286 in the last 3 years
Monaco spent 140 in the last season

We competed in the past because of SAF but as long as the Glazers are in charge we will never spend enough to compete any more. let's just hope the next crop of youngsters can match the class of 92 because that is our only hope.

Come on Shahram, Balague is an eejit (copyright StevieK) and whilst I like Wenger, he hasn't won anything for 8 years so I'm not sure I take his opinion too highly on this right now. I see Chelsea finishing above City, there are too many individuals in the City squad for me

I agree he is an eejit, sorry StevieK LOL

Wenger might have not won for a long time but still a top manager and I always find him quite honest in his assessment of things.

He has had no money to spend mate and even came out said that this is the first year ever he has had proper money to spend but there were few quality players available.

I honestly not seeing what is so special about this Chelsea team as they did not get the players needed to fix their weaknesses from last year, unless you believe Mourinho is that good that he will make the difference.

Ajh as much as it pains me to say it I think the title this year will be between city and arsenal.city have shifted a bit of fringe players and replaced with what seems like quality team players not superstars but good solid pro, s which is something I think they have been missing.arsenal have played a blinder in signing ozil who I believe will create a massive amount of assists this season.chelsea look all over the place at the moment but could get there act together but I think they lack a prolific striker and think letting lukaku go on loan was crazy the lads a beast.that leaves in my opinion us and spurs fighting for 4th place in my opinion other than a fully fit 1st eleven our squad is average at best

John, Arsenal's squad is paper thin in terms of quality. A few injuries during the depths of winter, will let us see just how much of a challenge they can sustain.

StevieK

If It's worth anything, Wenger believes City had the best window in terms of quality and then spurs but mentioned the challenges of integrating that many players into a team. Funny he said chelsea and liverpool have made god signings but goes on to mention how he was surprised by our approach in the window.

24 Sep 2013 19:21:26
The truth about Jose Mourinho.


Jose Mourinho was "desperate" and "incredulous" when he found out he had missed out on succeeding Sir Alex Ferguson as Manchester United boss to David Moyes - according to an explosive new book in Spain.

Spanish journalist Diego Torres's book "Prepárense Para Perder" (Prepare To Lose) has been serialised in his newspaper El Pais, and contains some of the juicer allegations made about the Special One's time in charge at the Bernabeu.

According to the book, Mourinho, who left Madrid to take charge of Chelsea for a second time this summer, was confident that he was a contender for the hot seat at Old Trafford once Ferguson decided to step down at the end of the 2012/13 campaign.


However when Moyes was announced as the Scot's successor, the Chelsea boss is alleged to have screamed: "But he's won nothing!"

Torres also claims that Mourinho felt cheated by Ferguson, who he had cultivated a close relationship with during his time with Chelsea, and that he had told his agent Jorge Mendes to try and stop Moyes' appointment.

Torres writes in El Pais: "They were the most miserable hours of Mourinho in his time as manager of Real Madrid. Between dozing and waking he had a mobile glued to his ear, seeking clarification during the night of the 7th and the morning of May 8."

"What most spooked Mourinho was the conclusion that in public he would look a fool. He felt cheated by Ferguson and feared someone might stop taking him seriously. For years, the propaganda machine had reported the idea of ​​a friendship that is now revealed as a fantasy image. Mourinho's advisers told him to say that he already knew everything because Ferguson had called to inform him."

Moyes has endured a mixed start to life as Manchester United boss, and has suffered defeats against both Liverpool and Manchester City in recent weeks.

The Red Devils have also drawn with Mourinho's Chelsea side, who lost three games in a row recently to consign themselves to the worst start to a season since Roman Abramovich bought the club.

The book will be released in Spain on Wednesday, while accusations have already started to fly that Torres has an axe to grind with Mourinho from his tempestuous time with Real Madrid.


Earlyb

Sounds like a good fiction Novel :)

I think it is a lot closer to the truth than we know. I also think that the board was never going to accept a manager who would immediately see what is wrong at the club and demand the money to put it right.

The new manager could never be one that would have demanded money. They talk about Moyes abilities but the key one is that he would be unlikely to resign in principle when denied the transfer funds to compete. Write all the names of the top managers down and when you get to Moyes you reach the first one who would accept significant restriction in transfer funding.

I agree with that comment kloot

24 Sep 2013 17:16:48
I see you're all posting second teamers for tomorrow night eh?
Fair enough.
But how comes it's fn 55 sheckles a ticket for the Liverpool section, what's all that about?

Only 55, I would have thought it should be higher :)

24 Sep 2013 18:09:54
Considering the start of the season we've had (which has been a very tough one) and the whole transfer window debacle does any1 think we made a mistake picking moyes over mourinho as it's obvious he wanted to come here. (Not blaming the transfer activity on moyes either, although do feel Jose would have had targets and got them). Personally I'd like to see moyes succeed and think he'll get it right. So just want to hear your opinions :-)

Everyone to there own but I would of taken mourhino over moyes

I don't know if Moyes will be a success or not but Mourinho would have been a nightmare. He stands for everything I hate in modern football, his behaviour over the years is unacceptable. Yes yes he's a winner, blah blah blah, but not for me.

Klopp, mourinho, ancellotti, Conti in that order, and I never honestly thought we will even consider Moyes. In my opinion, he will be a disaster. And 13 games into his united career, he has done nothing to change my mind.
I long for klopp to come over so that we can play with modern tactics. Speed, skill, strength.

AJH please explain how is behaviour is any worse than a manager who was by nature a bully and involved in many very dodgy deals including his family.

24 Sep 2013 21:13:28
Sounds like when Souness took over Liverpool, and look what happend to them? It will take them another 10 years to searious lay challange for the title. It took us 26 years it will have taken them over that and probably take us another 10 years to win the league again. If moyes is left ion charge for over 3years the value of Man U will go down and the interest rate for the glazers will go up. Unless there is a big improvement in ute team next season moyes will be gone

Its funny really all those saying that Moyes as crap, he's out of his depth, he's this he's that etc and we should have signed Mourinho. One of the main criticisms of Moyes is that he is too nofative, too defensive and he sets out not to lose rather than to win.These might be valid points, but can you tell me how has Mourinho any more positive in his approach than Moyes? Speak to most Chelsea fans and they are fed up already with Jose's tactics and team selections.
Moyes was not my 1st choice, but I am certainly glad that the egomaniac Mourinho is nowhere near our football club.

"take us another 10 years to win the league again

That is going to extremes mate. I have been quite vocal about our chances this year being slim to none when it comes to winning the league but we are not that bad.

I will agree with you if we don't make major changes over the next 12 months and will be first in line to ask for Moyes head even though I was and still supportive of the guy and his appointment.

Contrary to popular opinion, I don't think SAF left him a great team or squad for that matter and more luggage and deadwood than shinning diamonds.

Our issue at left back, midfield, wings has been there for some time and the quality is on par with a mid table team.

We have been fortunate in having great strikers who have taken turns in having career years and top defenders who have carried us this far, but they are all at an age now that is worrying as they will need replacements in the next 24 to 36 months and Welbeck is not going to replace Rooney and RVP and neither is Hernandez.

It is quite simple, we might have to spend 100 million over two windows on 3 quality players in each window and integrate them with the talent that we already have.

One thing that is for sure, no team will be able to win it on a consistent basis and it will be extremely competitive between 5 or 6 clubs each season.

The likes of City and Chelsea will keep investing and we can call them sugar daddy clubs if it makes people feel better, however it is the quality of your players and team that wins you games and the league and not history, tradition or the badge on your shirt.

In summary, buck up and spend money or get left behind unless we get lucky with a a bucket load of talent coming through the youth ranks like 92. Unfortunately given what we have gotten in the last 15 years from the youth ranks I don't see that happening and hope I am wrong.

It was always going to be moyes because he works on a budget, but short and long term it will cost the glazers dearly

24 Sep 2013 18:48:30
Alright lads,

I was just wondering if anyone could let me know how Sam Byrne is getting on at the club.I know he is highly thought of back home in Ireland.

Love the name! Brings back so many memories.

Chris, me too although not sure about the typo :-) You may need to re-register Ruud

24 Sep 2013 15:29:34
Just want to reply to Shappy about his post about our wingers. A really top post. Would post this on the original post but its getting further and further down the page!

We have to go all out for Reus, it makes perfect sense. If Moyes is going to play 4-4-2 or a version of that with Rooney & RVP up top then we need a couple more modern wingers / inside forwards. I would keep Nani over Valencia though as I think he is more a match winner on his day and if he is confident and has faith put in him then he could be a top, top player for us.

So if we had for the two wide attacking slots: Reus, Nani, Zaha, Kagawa, Januzaj, Lingard then I think that offers us plenty. Reus and Kagawa would be first choice with the others rotating with him. If Welbeck is to come on and improve then he has to play up front and learn how to score in the smaller games. With RVP potentially picking up injuries then he will get game time there. Reus would solve a lot of problems. We would still need a left back and another central midfielder like Coentrao & Marchisio though.

If we could start next season (I know its a long way off) with De Gea, Rafael, Smalling, Vidic, Coentrao, Carrick, Marchisio, Reus, Kagawa, Rooney, RVP.

I agree with you both. Reus should be one of our main targets next summer, if we can tempt Dortmund that is.

I think Shappy's right in his earlier post where he suggests we should play 4 3 1 2 and get the width from the fullbacks; at least until we have some wingers who are any good.

This formation will play to the strengths of our sqaud and enable us to get Kagawa, Rooney and RVP on the pitch together in their best positions. It will also compensate somewhat for our weaknesses such as an ineffective midfield and Evra's defending deficiencies.

Another idea from one of the weekends newspapers was to try Kagawa in a deeper role. Dropping No 10's further back has worked before so it could be worth a go until we can sign some decent midfielders.

Whatever happens surely Moyes can see that setting up his team like Roy Hodgson's England is not going to achieve anything. Moyes must have noticed we are a much better team when he goes for it with an attacking line up such as against Leverkusan.

Oh, and another thing; Bring back Jonny Evans. he was brilliant for us last season.

Hi all,

Been reading this site religiously for years but I never got around to post ing regulary.Really enjoy your discussions.

Do you not think bringing in Rues would block Januzays path into our first team?I think if we were to go in for rues januzay would be less likely to sign up for us. {Ed004's Note - No as I feel Januzaj is better coming in from the right or playing central as he is left footed while Reus is better on the left. Also if I had it my way I would have Nani, Young and Valencia sold over the next few windows with Reus, Zaha, Lingard, Kagawa and possibly one more signing, preferably a left footed player like Mata/Lamela (btw don't think either are obtainable just an example) brought in.}

Ed i'm with you on that, although if we get Valencia playing like he did the season before last, he will be valuable to us but I really can't make my mind up about him at the moment with his inconsistency. Anyways, do you not think Mata might start thinking about leaving if Mourinho keeps overlooking him? Something not quite right there. {Ed004's Note - I am hoping so. Still annoyed we made no move for Ozil or Lamela}

24 Sep 2013 19:51:49
Ruud mate I don't think Reus would block Januzaj as I would move on Nani and Young and possibly Valencia too.

Januzaj prefers to play on the right and cut in onto his left foot, Reus prefers to play on the left and cut in onto his right foot. I think they could work very well together.

In an ideal world next season our wingers would be Valencia, Reus, Zaha, Januzaj and Lingard.

ED004

Even if Mata decides to leave, I can't see them selling him to any one many premiere league rivals who would be interested. I am disappointed we did not pick up Erickson for 11 million, what a steal.

I think the 3 names Shappy posted and Muniain, if we could get a reasonable fee agreed would all be very good.

Muniain and Draxler are both only 20 and for their age they are incredible talents and much more to come from them and will only get better. {Ed004's Note - Im not sure about Muniain there are big doubts about his attitude}

I've been saying for a long time that playing with two wingers leaves us exposed a lot of the time.
Snappy's choice is Reus, and I agree, he's a super player. But I also think that we could have all the players in the world and not win, unless the manager starts playing the right tactics and improve on his pathetic team selections.
Excellent post snappy.

24 Sep 2013 14:25:00
DAVID Moyes: But I think the Capital Cup in many ways is always a route to try and give as many young players an opportunity as we can.

Prove it then and at least play evans, smalling, janzuj (spelling), kagawa and hernandez

He then went on to say it is a big fixture so I doubt we'll see much youth. Maybe Januzaj and hopefully Zaha. I'd imagine Kagawa will start ahead of Young after his shocking display against City.

24 Sep 2013 13:16:19
So we did go for Bale. Interesting. Could of done with him on Sunday! But it shows that we are prepared to pay big for the top players and have the funds available. Obviously we don't know how much we bid for him, and IMO Real got ripped off, however, we clearly missed out our top targets this summer and potentially would be in a very different position now if we had of done. Would you guys have been happy if we had spent, say 80 mil. on Bale this summer?

What because Perez said we bid for Bale it means it's true?

Come on we all know the equalizer offered 29 million for Bale

I do not normally go against the internal workings of the club but I do fear for our future. Moyes has not as yet done anything to ease my fears. I have seen no evidence that he has the ability to change the flow of a game. He appears rigid, unable to bend to the needs of a game, with his tactics. Close season was poor, the start of the season is also poor.
I do not believe that we will now go on an unbeaten run, I think the next five games will be a struggle (I hope I am so wrong).
Yeah we bid for Bale, as he only had eyes for Real Madrid. Seems to be a number of patterns of how we bid for transfer targets over the summer (or the last few summers).
1/ We bid when the player is nailed on as going to another club (Bale).
2/ We bid well below the asking price (Moura, Herrera, Dembele etc).
3/ If the transfer is getting close then alienate the players agent (confidante/closest advisor) by refusing to paid their fees!
The only excuse for our defunct midfield is that we (or should I say the Glazer regime) do not go the extra mile (splash the cash) to bring in new, top quality players.

Sydney! - I don't see why Perez would lie when they got their man, it's not like only Madrid were interested in Bale. Also, Moyes was questioned on it when there was that reported late bid for the player and his response was very coy, saying how Man United always target the best players blah blah and i'm pretty sure most on here assumed he meant Bale. We were also linked with him all summer and let's be honest, is it really a surprise that we did bid for him?

Maybe to help justify spending so much money on him. He will undoubtedly not live up the expectation so when the time comes to eat humble pie they will offset it by saying he would have gone to utd if Real didn't pay the mega money. That's one reason, maybe we asked him to is another one, but that's a bit left field.

Elvis, Perez said a bid had come from MU for Bale, yet never mentioned Bayern Munich who actually DID make a bid for Bale. David Moyes after being coy said in the press conference immediately afterwards that MU never bid for Bale. Do you not think it's odd that Perez mentions a bid from MU, but didn't mention the bid from Bayern? It was Bayern who made that bid, not MU.

He will be a big hit and perfect for their style of play. Ramos has already come out and said they can't believe how fast and tricky he is and did not expect it.

Does not mean I agree with the transfer fee.

If we had that amount of spare cash why didn't we pay the required for baines and herrera?

So after several weeks of criticism of our pathetic summer transfer efforts we don't distance ourselves from a supposed bid for Bale. You really couldn't make it up, is anyone really going to fall for that pathetic PR attempt. How many windows have the Glazers ensured the club were in for the top players but just "missed out". It is actually quite an embarrassing effort but given this summer I should say it is just another embarrassing effort

What's more embarrassing, Red Man, are those posters who fall for this sh*t every single transfer window. hook, line and sinker.

I can't people can be so gullible.

Think of it like this. Any other job - Ed Woodward is employed and told,

"this summer is a CRUCIAL period for this company. We've lost the a great manager and the fans need to see we are dedicated to supporting the new manager financially. If we don't get top quality, the pressure will be even greater on the new manager and things could crumble very quickly."

Woodward fails to do his job in this crucial period, making the company look like a complete joke.

Why would Woodward keep his job after failing so disastrously at the first hurdle? He wouldn't in any other job. Why at United?

Simple. His job WAS to 'fail'. He is a Glazer man, working above a manager used to working on a shoe-string budget and seemingly employed for that very reason.

Woodward's job was never to invest heavily in the squad. It was to create the impression that he was, while offering low amounts for our 'targets', knowing these would fail. but at least it could be said that he was 'trying', yeah?

Wake up. The writing is on the wall, and we don't have SAF's immense personality and drive anymore.

We won't sign anyone in January, and the circus will begin again in the summer, with the same outcome.

RED SKY

Your points have resonance and I will not trust one word of false transfer rumours in future until they are stood in a red shirt. I said this last window was when they needed to support their new manager and they didn't. I don't understand how anyone could believe we were really truly after the best players in summer.

Red Man, are you telling me you used to believe false transfer rumours?

Seriously, for years and years, rule number one of transfer rumours, is don't believe a thing until they're shaking hands with the manager in a Utd shirt.

I come on this site for entertainment, I never take part in the debates over who's coming - what's the point? It's all a load of keek.

24 Sep 2013 12:17:24
Anyone think it's strange Moyes never phoned young Lingard after his four goals and told him to keep up the good work? We know SAF would have done. I am not having a dig at Moyes, just think it's quite odd.

24 Sep 2013 12:50:12
It just highlights the differences in their managment styles. Sir Alex liked to keep a firm grasp on everything from the top to the bottom, he was also very involved with the youth players and watched them on a regular basis.

Moyes is still trying to come to terms with the vastness of the job he has taken on. His job now is involves three or four times the work of the one he left at Everton. As such it is probably normal that he forgets a few of the smaller details. Phoning up a youth player to say well done is probably bottom of the mountian of things he has to do. Give him time and he will probably do it, but he needs longer than a couple of months to get used to managing the biggest club in the world.

Do we know he didnt?

Have a read of the article written about Barclay and how he described how good Moyes was after the young lad broke his leg. He was very positive about Moyes support for him and his family.
It is only my opinion but if true and Moyes did not phone Lingard then it indicates Moyes hasn't yet got to grips with the role and is having to give all his concentration elsewhere. The commercial side and considerations will also weigh him down.
Still Lingard may feel a bit put out at being overlooked and it is these small but important parts of management separate the great from the good.

Red Man, my thoughts exactly.

24 Sep 2013 14:06:44
well by the time moyes will get used 2 manage united we will have become everton, he should have never let rene go, he has done a lot of mistake's already and I have not seeing anything positive so far, I hope i'm proven wrong, but we will see tomorrow, I wonder what will happen if we lose against liverpool and play 2 draw's and lose 2-3 games after the liverpool game will u guys still say give him time, we had saf before and he saved us alot, remember fergie time well it's gone.had moyes brought in herrera, thiago and the left back from real madrid and started with zaha and adnan j then I think moyes could have been ok but I have see'n nothing so far that show's me that we are on rigth track and that he need's time is bs. bayern real barca city inter napoli all have done well so why does moyes need time because he is useing wrong starting 11.when he did not fight 2 keep rene that will be his biggest mistake well good luck mr moyes with steve round and phil neville. sorry guy's but I don't see the light in the darkness.zee

Moyes is a very good manager but he will need time to get used to his new role and those around him. Judge him after two seasons, I think he was the right choice and will prove it.

Zee? Pessimistic? Say it ain't so!

Steviek, Zee has changed. He was once a happy and nice man. Then the negatives on this page got their hands on him. He will never be the same again :(

Judge him after 2 seasons do you think he will still be at united then

24 Sep 2013 17:00:47
sorry steviek mate its hard 2 accept defeat against city and liverpool and a draw against chelsea got me going mad but I will leave him alone and see if he proves me wrong cheers mate.zee

The only reason you're expecting wins against every team is because SAF set the bar so high. It wasn't like that when SAF was coming into the job back in the 86. Theoretically speaking, Moyes has a more difficult job because of all the pressure on him at the moment and the rate at which managers must deliver in this modern era of football. I'm sure long term he'll do well just give him time, and I don't just mean 3-4 games time I mean at least a season or two.

Ozwald

I am not sure how you can compare 86 to 2013. We were a decent team in 86 and just looking for a manager to take us to the next level. I came out very early and was very supportive of the appointment but he did not exactly take over Sunderland mate.

He took over a good team that won the league and I still say they screwed up in the summer and now paying for it and all this lip service does not wash.

Better start winning or at least demonstrate we are making changes with some short term pain for medium term gain.

Playing the same formation with the same players from last year and playing like sh. t is not very inspiring.

Still support him and even though I don't expect to win the league, I still expect us to perform to certain standard.

24 Sep 2013 18:28:55
sydney your right mate the negative got me at last, but if we win 12 game and beat arsenal and tottenham then I will be back with a big smile, zee

A bad underperforming season and dm won't be here next season, he won't get a lot of time to get it right, if we are way off league pace and dumped out of cl early the fans will let there anger be known.as I posted earlier fergie got time with a utd that were in the wilderness moyes has took over with us top of the pile

24 Sep 2013 11:54:34
Arsenal fan here,

Whats happening with hernandez at UTD? He has been one of the best goal poachers in the world for a few years whilst at united, but he never gets any game time.
I know RVP is exceptional and hard to drop, and Rooney is the same when he's fit, but surely hernandez is being wasted?

United could even play with all 3 upfront when u consider that rooney tends to come and collect the ball from his own keeper sometimes.

thoughts?

cheers

24 Sep 2013 12:59:23
Unfortunately Welbeck has emerged from out youth ranks and has pushed Hernandez further down the order. This is due to Welbecks all round game being better than Hernandez.

Hernandez is exceptional at finishing and finding space, but his passing, hold up play and link up play isn't great.

Welbeck isn't exceptional at anything but has very good pace and power, he is very good at holding up the ball and linking the play yet his finishing is very poor.

Due to the lack of strength in midfield and on our wings we need all of our players to do a shift for us, so Hernandez is seen as a luxuary we can't afford and Welbeck takes his place. Personally i'd rather play Hernandez than Welbeck especially when RvP isn't playing as both Rooney and Welbeck will drop deep to help out the team leaving no one playing upfront offering a outlet to relieve pressure.

Hernendez needs to start matches. He could have made a big difference aganst city.

I think the time to do that Daniel has gone. He was exciting a couple of seasons ago and looked like a world beater, however he has lost a yard of pace which was the key difference. He still gets into good positions but we lack the ability to create that many chances and he needs chances.

He has been wasted at Utd and the lack of games and chances he receives has meant he has fallen by the wayside, making it harder for him to get a god in the first team. I hope he gets a move but he will never be the player he could have been. I just hope we learn from it.

Samthered sadly Hernandez wouldn't have had a kick on sunday imo

He's another Ole. And I don't mean that in a disrespectful way at all.

Never really seen him start, and impose himself on a game. It's nearly always when he comes on as a sub, that he's at his most effective.

Pity, because I like the young lad's attitude, and he plays with a smile on his face, unlike some of the snarling, preening, too cool for school posers, that we see nowadays.

Some in our own team could take a leaf out of his book, when it comes to attitude.

24 Sep 2013 11:03:34
Well. Suppose that's the league over for this year.

StevieK

Stevie

You know people don't get irony, looking forward to the outraged responses you get

Are you taking the mick steve, or do you genuinely think that we can't win the league this season? I mean, it its not like we don't have some cracking players' still at the club.

You know what, I will make a prediction and I will stand by it: WE WILL WIN THE LEAGUE THIS SEASON. Sunday's defeat will be a big boost in the long run.

Have to say, AJH, I'm a little disappointed in the lack of gullible posters responding to this post.

Anyway, I'll leave you to snuggle up to your new best mate, Boarshaw :)

Sam, I'm on the same page, mate. It was a gubbing. We've been gubbed before, and we'll be gubbed again. Not the end of the world, nobody died, and the sky isn't falling in.

I think teams/people/countries need something like this every now again, if only to remind them of the standards they are meant to maintain, but mostly because it hopefully creates a siege mentality, backs to the wall, they're all against us mentality. Fergie thrived on that.

As long as DM dares to be bold, and learns from his mistakes as he goes along, we'll be alright.

And even if we're not. Guess what, the world will carry on. Because there really are more important things in life than football.

Some people on this site need to get out more.

LOL. I am forbidden from attending my twice a week poker game due to some unfortunate circumstances and until I get my playing privileges back, I get to watch a lot of our champagne football and post on this site :)

24 Sep 2013 10:44:22
So a lot calling for Moyes head already! hope we don't boot him, as am I glad we didn't fergie all thm years ago. He's not rushed out and spent money on lots of players because he didn't know what he had in his squad, also explains why certain players were not moved on YET. I think next summer is when he'll go and add and indeed remove to and from the squad. I also believe there is money to spend but moyes being moyes he wasnt willing to jus spend it on anybody. let's give him time guys, granted the result against city wasnt the best but its answering questions for him about who to keep and who not. This time next season I think our team will look very different

Agreed. This season will be a massive learning curve for everyone at the club.

I understand the part about not rushing to buy but the part about wanting to asses the players/squad does not wash as he has seen them for years on the other side and by now should know them very well.

After all he would have prepared everton for fixtures against us and would know all the strengths and weaknesses of our players and system.

Spot on god created united

God - But it will be different when you manage the players as you may think you can get something different from them - Rooney eg. It's fair enough that he should know the players, but he knew them how SAF wanted to use them, major difference.

God created united, I do get tht u would av a basic idea of what we've got but working with thm and seeing what systems thy can be employed in is something tht only comes from being inside united. if that was the case why has he gave nani a new contract? if he had gone off what he's seen with everton thn surely he wouldn't have had a new contract! we all know whos dead wood but watch thm week in week out

Please don't call me god, it feels weird :)

I don't think it would take a lot for a PL manager to look at the united squad even from the outside and realize 3 or 4 areas that needed fixing this summer.

The reality believe is we could not move players and were not prepared to pay for players at the asking prices.

He's not the Messiah, he's a very naughty boy!

Strbor83

Nani's new contract might have nothing to do with moyes plans to use him extensively and might see him go next summer anyway. It juts gives us leverage in case we want to sell him.

Yes I have been very naughty and grounded at the moment :)

24 Sep 2013 10:22:06
A point I was making to a friend yesterday. Think to when Fellaini has been most effective for Everton. He was playing high up the pitch, almost as a number ten and would be the target for all long balls from the back. He's an opportunistic defensive presence but not a great positional defender. He's not a technical cm player who's good in tight spaces. What I'm saying is that I believe the public image of Fellaini as a steely cm is mistaken, and while he's a very good player in a certain role, it's not the role united need him in or are playing him in. I hope he can develop and do the job and not only help carrick protect the back four but also get forward and help the attacking four by providing the trailing player in the box that we haven't had since scholes was in his mid 20s. Thoughts?

24 Sep 2013 10:38:51
I think we need to give him time to adapt to a level of football he isn't yet used to and to relearn a role he hasn't played for 18 months.

Yes he needs to improve his positional sense and his technique. But he can be a right handful for anyone on his day.

Personally I feel his best position for us would be as the deepest of a midfield three, this would limit his movement up field thus making him less prone to being cought out of place and also means his technique level won't expose him. He can mop up everything before it get to our defence and he can cover for our full backs if they are caught up field.

This more limited role would suit him down to the ground and give us the base required to dominate midfield.

I agree to a point, that he was effective for Everton in a more advanced role. But he has more to his game than just a big target man. He destroyed us last year in that role, but he played there for Everton because they lacked attacking options and Fellaini was the best they had in that position.
However, Fellaini himself has said that his best position is as a deep lying, defensive midfielder. I honestly think he will be a very good player for us. Ok, he didn't have the best of games at the weekend, but to be fair to him we were completely over run all over the pitch. He was also up against, in my opinion anyway, one of the three best midfielders in the world in Yaya.
And don't forget, that was his first full game for the club. Give him a few games to settle in and I'm sure he will serve us very well.

I thought he was brilliant against leverkusen the other week. every time we won the ball back it seemed to be him muscling people off the ball. I hope we don't play him in an advanced role, as we'll end up jus hoofing the ball up to him with no style what's so ever

I'm not sure that is the public perception. I think that is how people are trying to see him due to that being what we need but I said long before we signed him, and I'm not alone, that Fellaini's best form came when he was played behind the striker. This myth that CM is his best position came about with Fellaini saying it was his preferred position. That said, he may well grow into the role and dominate games like we hope he will. Time will tell.

TK-Red,
Felleini is a central midfielder, and has been since his early career. Yes, he has been very effective for Everton playing behind the striker for the last 2 seasons. But midfield is his natural position, though it may take him a while to get used to playing there again at club level.
He plays in th emiddle for Belgium, who have a far superior midfield to England, and for that matter United. How we can only dream of Fellaini, Witsel, Dembele, Defour and Hazard for our midfield! Moreover, he is very often Belgium's best player, even with those players around him. I know international football is different to club football, but Fellaini, although not lightening quick, does posses many, if not all, the attributes to be a top midfielder. I guess time will tell!

I am perplexed that he said DM was his best position, as defensively he was really poor on Sunday. We can only hope it was the occasion that got to him.

We were a different team when he pushed up against City. That is where we need him for certain games, freeing up space for Rooney & RVP.

24 Sep 2013 09:33:24
I think that a big problem we have is that this club no longer seems to be a club of opportunity. In years gone by we have seen the Neville's, Beckham, Scholes etc come through and all be given chances at a young age. We on the other hand now have lost faith in our youngsters and dare not play them in games for any longer than 20 minutes. Pogba being the prime example but also now Januzaj who has to play more as he is already far better than Young, and also Lingard who we loaned out right before a Cup game that he could potentially of featured in. Over the next two years I would hope that Michael Keane, Lingard, Januzaj & Henriquez all take up a spot in the first team squad - But will they be forced to leave.

If I recall correctly, Pogba left when he was 18. The likes of Beckham and scholes were hardly first team regulars at that age. And Pogba aside, we have yet to produce anyone with that kind of ability since the fledglings. Ravel Morrison might have had the natural talent to make it, but his attitude was lacking and Pogba wasn't willing to wait for his chance.

You cannot blame Ferguson for that. Barkley got his chance at 19 in an average Everton side, Pogba wasn't willing to be blooded in, he just wanted a regular place in the first team at a very young age and this is just not going to happen.

Lingard, up until this year, was nowhere near ready for a first team role as he showed in last year's loan where he flopped. Now he is gaining experience and might get more chances when he comes back.

Januzaj is beeing blooded in, but matches against the likes of Chesea, City and Liverpool are hardly the best opportunities to do so. Too much pressure on a kid at a young age will hurt his career ( Macheda! )

24 Sep 2013 10:30:38
Fresh, its a lovely idea but the expectations placed on the team are much higher now. When Neville Scholes Butt Beckham and Giggs broke through we weren't expected to win at least something every season. We were expected to challenge for the league and maybe have a decent FA cup run. Europe was a bonus and the Capital cup wasn't something that really concerned us. If we finished 3rd in the league back in the mid 90's it wouldn't have been considered the disaster it would today.

Then on top of all that you need to look at the players we have in the squad today compared to then. Now we have at least two first team players to every position, they may differ in ability but there are at least two players for every position. Back then we had a squad of around 18-20 and that was considered quite a big first team squad. So when you had injuries you had to play youth players in order to make up the numbers.

It wasn't about having the courage to trust these youngsters it was about having lower expectations and a smaller squad making the need for these youngsters greater.

I think the FA needs to do more to make clubs focus more on youngsters rather than just buying someone to fill a gap.

I'd consider making it so that all Premier League teams can only registar 11 of their first team squad players for the Capital Cup and there for the rest of there players for that competiton will have come from the youth set up thus giving all youngsters in all top flight academys a chance at playing first team football. It would also spice up a dying cup competition imo.

Fresh

I agree with you on quite a few of the points. Unfortunately, I think he is going to be under immense pressure now given the way we have started to get results. A loss tomm to our biggest rivals historically will not go down well even though in all honesty no one cares for the league cup but given who we are playing and our last game he has to win.

He is also under immense pressure now as many have called for to go on a winning run in the pl and you wonder if he is willing to take a risk with the likes of zaha and Janusaj. My gut feel says he will make some minor changes with maybe giving Nani and Kagawa a go in some games and mixing up the CB pairings but nothing too risky.

I think players like Zaha and Janusaj will get game time in the PL fixtures towards the end of the games where we are comfortable and winning by a few goals.

Great idea Shappy - I think that 11 from the first team squad is definitely the way forward. Either that or a limit on foreign players in the squad? May affect sponsors but something needs to be done!