Manchester United Banter Archive February 25 2018

25 Feb 2018 22:24:40
Just an observation on young McTominay.
I see a lot of similarities with Darren Fletcher in his game. We all know how Fergie trusted him, big games in particular. Not a fancy name like some may like but could be a very useful squad member in coming years.
Hope he isn't forced out by new signings.

25 Feb 2018 22:45:04
Good call, Tonebags, despite his mistake for the goal, McTominay seems to be growing into a solid player. He stuck to his task today, which doesn't make highlight reels, but is very important. He also seemed to grow in confidence as the game wore on, getting stuck in on the tackles, and getting right in Rudiger's face with the little clash with Matic. He behaves like a real pro, which is what we remember about Darren Fletcher.

25 Feb 2018 23:50:27
He was excellent today against some of the best attackers and midfielders in the business.

He did let Willian run off him for their goal - a mistake I'm sure the coaches will be using to help develop him this week. He also played a couple of wild passes, but in fairness to the lad Pogba and Matic were playing hot potato in the middle of the pitch at one point and he at least tried to take control of the situation.

I imagine Jose is delighted with him in particular tonight.

26 Feb 2018 08:13:55
Tonebags. Funny you should say that, my son and I were at OT and said exactly the same.

25 Feb 2018 22:16:58
Are we going through a drought?
Sanchez is a good player but Giggs was better and he wasn't really a top tier player truth be told . Not compared to figo Ronaldo etc
United played juventus the cm was scholes kean David's zidane .
4 of the best cm I've seen we had Beckham and Giggs on each side .

Take Messi and Ronaldo out the rest don't compare to the 90s.

25 Feb 2018 22:38:57
I think messi and Ronaldo raised The bar to unprecedented levels in trends of their goalscoring and individual stats. They are so far ahead of the rest of their generation. Much more than zidane or figo or kaka were of theirs for example. Lots of really good players at the moment they just fail in comparison to ronaldo and messi.

25 Feb 2018 22:57:24
Really?
So take Messi and Ronaldo out of the equation and the test are better than zidane David's scholes kean del peiro baggie figo and co?

25 Feb 2018 22:57:50
Really, personally I prefer Iniesta and zidane to Messi and ronaldo.

25 Feb 2018 23:35:43
Thats not what i said at all jred.
I said that ronaldo and messi are a lot further ahead of all the other players of their generation than zidane figo and co where of theirs. I think when zidane kaka and figo for example where considered the worlds best they were not that far ahead or you could have made an argument for another 10 players or so.
But for the last 10 years becaise of their unbelievable consistency and brilliance its only one or the other of messi or ronaldo anybody has been able to make an argument for.
Nobody can challenge their numbers trophy count goals team success match winning moments. They have set the bar so high for not only the next generation but all future generation's we have been blessed to see them both at their peak.
You have to go back to maradoona and then pele before him to draw any comparrisons in terms of the logevity of their dominance of the title of worlds best.

{Ed007's Note - I'm a bit disappointed that nobody's mentioned Paddy McCourt in this thread but I will say the next player that's going to even have a touch on Ronaldo will be a cyborg hybrid from the future or Karamoko Dembele.}

25 Feb 2018 23:43:00
Yes supa we all have our faviurites keane for me in his prime was the worlds best. But i was just using players that have actually been awarded the title with balon dor. Or been generally accepted as being world's best for a period. Lots of players have done it and win it but none have been like those 2 being as dominant for 10 15 years. Iniesta comes 3rd i suppose over that time maybe buffon is anther example.

25 Feb 2018 23:46:56
Iniesta is a joy, even these days, glorious player.

25 Feb 2018 23:56:13
KDB, Kane and Salah are all pretty handy. Neymar, Bale, Moderic, Inniesta.

I don't think it is as bad as you make out jred. Some of the stars are reaching the end of their careers and the next group need to step up.

26 Feb 2018 06:30:53
Why no mention of djemba djemba, in his pomp he. er. doh.

26 Feb 2018 11:06:55
Yes the ball used to flow through Djemba-djemba. to the other team.

26 Feb 2018 12:04:10
Ed 007 you don’t know how good Paddy McCourt really was. You only saw him at Parkhead, I grew up watching him at the brandywell for Derry City. Jesus what a player, looked half arsed for 89 minutes then bests 6 men and puts it into the top corner. Legitimately the first football superstar I encountered.

{Ed007's Note - Paddy did show flashes of it at Celtic, Caolan but as you say he was a right lazy sod and one of the most laid back footballers I've ever met. If he had put in more of an effort he could have been a top player for any team.}

25 Feb 2018 20:27:11
Great result today and improvement in the second half. First half we were very poor but we showed great grit and determination to come back from a goal down. Delighted for Lukaku today thought his work rate was brilliant as it has been the last few months and he fully deserved his goal and assist.

I want to touch on Mctominay quickly. Now he is not the most talented, the fasest or the most skilful. But that lad has the biggest heart, desire and love for our club. He doesn’t have fancy haircuts or does silly dances on social media. He is an honest and hard working young lad who is living the dream playing for the club he joined at the age of 11. I feel so proud when I see the likes of rashford Mctominay and Lingard are successful, even more than players that we have bought. Mctominay will probably not be world class or even come close to a top bracket player, but it is so great to see a young player seize his opportunity and not seem phased by playing in the big stage. He is a throwback to the old days where they were just honest footballers with no frills who loved playing the game. Delighted for the lad and long may it continue as he does the basics really well.

25 Feb 2018 20:31:17
How often does he play if we spend big on 2 cm players.

25 Feb 2018 20:48:35
Not very much jred. I’m inclined to the idea of promoting him to 4th midfielder next year but I think if I take off the rose tinted glasses I think we need 2 signings and he will be 5th choice. If we want to win the league and compete in the latter stages of the champions league then we need two more signings in midfield.

25 Feb 2018 21:16:10
And yet he has played really well .
If we had spent a lot on a player and he had played to the level mctom has in the last few games would you want him dropped?

25 Feb 2018 21:29:08
He has played well but he doesn’t offer enough going forward for me. The midfielder with pogba and matic needs to be someone who can dictate the play by picking passes and starting our attacks. Mctominay has been very solid and composed but lacks that passing range. We need a Carrick in his prime in my opinion. Some people may disagree but I find Mctominay very similar to matic. We still lack creativity in midfield even when we play a 3 man midfield. Carrick has shown signs of fatigue in recent weeks so I would like to see him rotated with Mctominay next year.

25 Feb 2018 21:34:00
So maybe he replaces Matic who isn’t getting any younger.

25 Feb 2018 21:52:37
Brilliant ball over the top for the 2nd goal today, but you’re right, if he can add a goal threat to his game he would be getting even more plaudits.

25 Feb 2018 21:53:17
He's very Fletcher so will play a lot of big games where we want to be that bit tighter in midfield. Like Park said someone better on the ball will be the third midfielder.

25 Feb 2018 22:35:17
Park
So again if we had a player who had played to level of mc Tom you would drop him.
After what 7 games?

25 Feb 2018 22:54:32
Where does last year player of the year hererra fit into it.

25 Feb 2018 23:07:50
jred if you read my reply i said he has played well and been solid but doesn't offer enough going forward. he has showed determination and composure doing the basics without being outstanding. I would say 7/ 10 performance. So yes I would drop him for someone with more attacking ability and intent. Just my opinion on how I would like us to play from midfield.

25 Feb 2018 23:29:41
Park what did you think of mc Tom 6 month ago .
So again if we bought a fancy name that had played as well as mc Tom you would drop him .

25 Feb 2018 23:56:59
The emergence of mc tom may reduce the need to buy 2 midfielders to 1.
He will play as often as his form dictates. Jose obviously trusts him he has plaued ahead of pogba, carrick, herrera, fellaini, and carrick at differernt times this seadoni would expect that to continue even if we sign a cm. If we do play 3 in midfield going forward then we need at least 5 to choose from.
Will fellaini stay? Doubful at this stage
Carrick is retiring
Will herrera stay? Again there has to be a doubt about that.
Mctom could find himself as 1st choice cover for matic and 2nd 2nd choice cover for pogb and new signing. Still lots of starts there for him and if he devolops his game he can be the natural successor to matic in a year or 2 . He looks to have a big future. But at manchester united he can always expect to have top class competition for his place. In a 60 gsme seadon its rare to see many player start more than 40 a few start 45 so lots of games for him and the moee he shines the more games he will play.

26 Feb 2018 00:07:51
Let’s agree to disagree jred. All these questions are boring me.

26 Feb 2018 09:19:21
Park3
There was only one question to be fair.

25 Feb 2018 18:11:59
Pleased for lukaku today been playing well since Xmas and improving all the time lads still only 24 and in his first season at United.

Great player Sanchez but he has defiantly unbalanced the team a bit while they adapt to him .
Pogba has a different role, martial has been moved about and linders who was playing well hardly got a look in .
It will work it's self out tho .
Big 3 points today and a great result.

25 Feb 2018 19:57:50
I thought the same iwth sanchez i think its the case of him getting used to evryone in the team, if he continues like this for next few gam3s.

I think he needs to be put on the bench so others can get a chance but i reckon he will be fine in time just needs to get couple of goals in the net and get used to his team mates.

25 Feb 2018 20:04:08
Singh
I would play him it's the only way to integrate him in to the team.

25 Feb 2018 20:21:35
I would too and sooner or later everyone will get used to each other.

25 Feb 2018 17:37:38
Listened to the match on the radio so it's not always the best indicator of a match. That's said Chelsea appeared to be far better than us first half and could have been 2 up at half time. We got the goal and picked up second half by the sound of this gs but this Chelsea team is a shadow of the ones that won titles and cups with regularity. I feared a loss today so am relived and surprised but one swallow does not make a summer and I still fear for our chances when playing against hard working aggressive and attacking teams like City Spurs and Liverpool.

25 Feb 2018 18:10:44
Spurs that took 89 minutes to break down palace. Yeah right.

26 Feb 2018 05:04:14
Yet they took less than a minute to score against us, so are we that poor or are palace that good?

26 Feb 2018 05:50:40
Yet we are second and they are 4th. Does that answer your question West Ham's manager. You seriously need to get over Moyes.

25 Feb 2018 16:14:59
Poor first half. Improved a lot in the second. Lukaku was very good, and I'm delighted for him.

Another game where Pogba drifted in and out. Sanchez seems to be trying too hard to impress, and should have scored. Worked hard as usual, but poor overall.

Matic couldn't find a team-mate in the first half, but was immense in the second. Jesse coming on lifted the energy levels.

Not vintage Utd, and I don't think many could have argued with a draw, but at this stage of the season I'll take the result every time.

25 Feb 2018 16:31:44
Well summed up nou. First half very poor. Usually when this united team goes behind I have very little confidence in turning it around. But we showed great grit and determination to turn it around. Huge 3 points and if city beat Chelsea next week then I think we are in a great position for top 4. I think we have a problem with where Sanchez is playing and we need to get him firing because he hasn’t quite hit the ground running. Next 2 games are huge against Sevilla and Liverpool.

25 Feb 2018 16:53:41
I agree, I think we need to try and find a way to get more of our best players playing a role that gets the most out of them.

Pogba prefers to be on the left of a midfield three.

Martial is better as a striker.

Lukaku plays better in a strike duo.

Sanchez plays best in a free role behind the striker in a lose No.10 role.

Matic lacks mobility and is better suited to a midfield three.

So how about we try a 442 with a midfield diamond?

That way Martial is played as a striker in a partnership with Lukaku. Those two have shown good signs of being able to link well this season with them both assisting each other a few times.

Matic gets to play in a midfield three, while Pogba gets to play on the left of a midfield three.

Sanchez gets to play in the No.10 link role with freedom.

We don't have any wingers so why try to play players out of position. This formation puts most of our best players in their best position playing their best role.

25 Feb 2018 17:25:08
We played that way today didn't we Shappy?

25 Feb 2018 17:25:47
Sounds Good that shappy, I think lukaku and martial would play really well together.

25 Feb 2018 17:44:56
Danny, I think it was more 433, Sanchez was definately more on the right and in field, although he did drift quite often. While Martial was wide left.

If we could get Martial playing off the shoulder forcing teams back the space for Sanchez and Lukaku would be great.

25 Feb 2018 17:53:19
I agree Shappy the problem we have is that our full backs aren’t good enough. If we play with the diamond we need the full backs bombing up and down the flanks with the ability to put a good cross in. Today showed young isn’t a left back as he offered next to nothing going forward and was a bit suspect defensively. Shaw would be more effective if we play the diamond. Likewise I love Valencia and he’s been a great servant but he is so poor going forward. When the ball reaches him he slows it down and either passes it backwards or inside. And when he does put a cross in it’s usually one lacking in quality. With two new full backs in the summer and a midfielder for the the right of the diamond and I think we have a very strong side. A front to of martial and Lukaku with Sanchez in the central role would be devastating once it clicks. Lindelof was very good today and pairing him with bailly can potentially be a very good partnership with their strengths complimenting each other. But again great result and I hope the players have regained some confidence for this extremely important business end of the season.

25 Feb 2018 18:08:27
Shappy - I don't know if you were at the game or watched it on TV the point being on TV you only really follow the ball.

I was at the game and I don't think Martial or Sanchez played as wingers today. We didn't see them chasing back in full back positions like we do when they play wide.

Martial definitely played closer to Lukaku and was allowed to stay in more advanced positions and drift out to the left. Sanchez was allowed to float around the pitch but mainly occupied central positions. He did drift right and Martial left defensively but they played no where near as deep as we've seen in the past.

Matic and Mctominay were tasked with picking up William and Hazard with Pogba as the spare man to the left of a midfield 3.

It might not have been a vintage 4-4-2 diamond or 4-3-1-2 but it was pretty close.

I thought it worked well. Martial got into some great positions but was just off the pace in terms of his end product and final ball today. Sanchez was disappointing and found it hard to get into the game. Maybe he's trying a bit to hard but he's always dangerous. I thought Pogba broke well from midfield at times.

Anyway I totally agree I'd like to see us play that formation.

25 Feb 2018 18:29:32
To be fair i was watching on a dodgy stream with poor internet. lol.

25 Feb 2018 16:10:29
Jose out!

25 Feb 2018 16:15:18
AJH 🤣🤣🤣.
We need to build on today’s win and push on for FA and CL. Good win today. Great to see Jose do one over persone.

25 Feb 2018 18:10:25
Clearly, irony is lost on some.

25 Feb 2018 16:08:35
Lukaku played like a machine, powerful performance from him, shows what he can do if he gets service in big games👀. 1st half was poor from us, but we seemed more like a Mourinho team in the second half, or is it just me thinking that? By the way, Jesse's header was beautiful, seemed to go in slow motion👌🏻 Bueno Conte😂.

25 Feb 2018 16:10:54
He does score important goals does Jesse.

25 Feb 2018 19:53:54
Another big game, another big goal for him, went on social media after the game and people were criticising him for his celebration, he scored the winner for gods sake and has dug us out many time since his debut, gets too much stick unfortunately👎🏻👎🏻 Lads can't have a laugh anymore, imagine living the dream🤔🙄.

25 Feb 2018 15:20:15
A lot of posters think we have a good squad but the manager isn't getting the best from it. Others think the squads weak so José can't be blamed. I'll tell you my thoughts.

I actually think both. I think Jose has lost his way, refused to adapt as football changes, and quite frankly isn't the special one anymore. I wouldn't be upset if he left tomorrow tbh. He hasn't improved anyone really off the top of my head. His man management skills are questionable at the best of times, seems more interested in casing a rift with his players than improving them.

I think the squad has a lot of poor players still, after all the money spent in recent years. Which players in our squad would you be upset to lose? Genuinly the only ones I would be bothered in leaving are De Gea, Bailly, Pogba (needs to do more) , Sanchez and Martial. 5 players, the rest I couldn't care less. If we want to challenge at the very top we need to drastically improve this squad. I understand we need squad player and all can't be world class. Like of McTommy, Jones and Lingard are squad players. But we need more quality.

Blind, Darmian, Valencia, Rojo, Smalling, Shaw, Young, Lindelof, Fellaini, Carrick, wouldn't interest a top 6 side.

Matic, Rashford, Lukaku and Herrera, are better than that bunch but nothing special. I wouldn't mind any of them leaving. I'd keep Mata as he offers something different.

Be honest, how many players in this squad do you genuinly think are good enough to take us to the top?

If we could get Poch (despite his lack of throphy) I'd take him tomorrow. I don't see Jose getting the best of this lot, and I'm bored of watching negative, lethargic, slow build up. Bored me to tears watching us at the moment.

25 Feb 2018 16:15:30
Were you bored today?

25 Feb 2018 16:47:30
GDS the first half was shambolic. It was a good result in the end, but I’m sorry one good result doesn’t make up for the terrible performances we’re seeing all to frequently. We win one game and suddenly all is great yeh? Easily pleased you are. We’ve been poor all season to be honest. 3 points today won’t suddenly alter my opinion of things unlike some on here. Did you enjoy the first 60 mins?

25 Feb 2018 16:56:25
Wow! Stand you always talk sense but I don’t agree with your assessments.

Shaw needs a run, he has huge potential and his confidence needs building.
Same with Rashford, he is outstanding for his age.
Lukaku I wasn’t sold on but I’d like to see him get some proper service, I think he’ll score tons.
McT is a late developer and is getting better with every game. Unsympathetic, undramatic, workhorse (which we need) .
Ou didn’t mentioned Lingard, I think he just needs to grow up and stop arseing about.
Lindelof, too soon to say, starting to look v steady
Blind, he’s gorgeous so he needs to stay.

My beef is how we are being set up to play. We signed one of the most prolific strikers in the EPL and then we don’t get the ball to him too often.

But yes, watching us is generally joyless right now.

25 Feb 2018 17:08:30
Results are results and if we get them then we should stick with our manager.

However, when was the last game you sat back afterwards and thought "wow, that was a great game"?

How often do you find yourself during the week getting excited because of the game on the weekend?

We will need to get that feeling back at some point or the club will stop progressing.

25 Feb 2018 17:34:08
Ajh, cheers mate but it’s just how I see it. In the OP I say Jose hasn’t improved anyone, I actually retract that in reference to Jesse. He has improved this season, but it’s only him. I did say the likes of Rashford and Matic were better than the list of players who need to leave, and as squad players are ok. But Rashford without pace would be a poor player, he needs to massively improve his composure and decision making. Shaw is not “potential” anymore for me. He’s had 4 years here now and still can’t nail down the LB position no matter who’s in charge. He needs to move on. Lindelof looks a real liability to me and was poor again today. As I said De Gea, Bailly, Pogba, Marital, Sanchez are the only ones who would be totally safe with me in charge. McTommy, Matic, Mata, Lingard, Jones and Rashford all ok as squad rotation. Lukaku too. The rest need to go.

I don’t rate Lukaku much tbh. Scores against the weaker sides, rarely makes the difference in big games although he was decent today. I’d have take many striker over him, such as Diego Costa, Aubameyang, Lewandowski, Kane, Fiminio, just to name a few. I’d also play martial number 9 over Lukaku.

25 Feb 2018 12:56:25
Sent before I'd finished writing my last post.

Other than what I've already said, I think we will see a 3 in midfield of Pogba, Matic and McTominay with McTominay playing on the right hand side of the 3 to give more cover against Hazard who will likely not be played as a false 9 today, he will probably play from the left.

We hopefully will see Shaw and Valencia at full back and ideally for me Bailly and Jones. However, if Jones isn't fit it will end up being Smalling. Generally I'd do anything to avoid playing Smalling but Morata is a very physical opponent and Smalling tends to be better at dealing with the physical side of things compared to Lindelof.

25 Feb 2018 11:35:53
Redman I am replying here as i thought that thread was getting a bit too big and this is a bit of a long post.

You know redman you are like mourinho, when mourinho faces a half decent team he parks the bus, you get a difficult question you blame Fergie, no wonder you defend mourinho so much.

He buys Bailly we all say great buy good job mourinho, he buys lindelof then we have to say not his guy, someone else is the decision maker, I don't buy that. Mourinho wanted 4 players in his 1st summer he got 4 players. This summer he wanted 4 players again he got 3, can't say he isn't getting his way because we didn't buy Griezmann, we now have alexis so that excuse is gone too.

Martial is the perfect case about how mourinho has mismanaged players. First season mourinho comes in, we take away his no 9, now you might say he needs to grow up and it shouldn't matter. But this is a different world we live in than it was say 20 years ago when these things didn't matter as much.

Martial was trying to get the AM9 brand going and ibra comes and we tell martial to go do one, must say great management on part of club and mourinho. Then he has a lot of off field issues, and he is dropped quite rightly for most part of the season.

This season, he starts from the bench for early part of it and provides important contribution and thus working his way back into the first team on regular basis. So much so that he is utd's player of the month on 3 occasions this season.

Mourinho's response is let's buy Sanchez and play him in the position Martial was playing brilliantly and shunting martial on the right. Another spectacular piece of managing shown from Mourinho by the way, the result since is easy to see. Martial has been half the player he was on the left. And his contract talks have apparently stalled, fantastic display of motivational skills from mourinho by the way.

Pogba who is our best mf, who was combining well with martial for the most part looks completely lost and out of touch and mourinho's response to that is let's fight, because he has a history of players backing him over other players right. Some much famed man management skills at display here.

I agree that this team needs moulding, but that is a difficult job since the manager himself seems broken.

25 Feb 2018 12:49:00
It is obvious that Jose is not getting the best out of players, and that needs to change. Nobody is expecting miracles, but Jose has the look of a man stuck in previous era, unable to adapt to the very top level of the modern game, and becoming more and more entrenched with his go to approach. With the money invested over the past few years, we should be playing a lot better.

25 Feb 2018 06:02:40
{Ed's Note - Tris Burke has posted a new article entitled, Review Of The Day 25th February 2018

25 Feb 2018 12:10:00
Interesting piece on Hargeaves and surprised. He was always very negative about ManUtd for a long time. Hopefully he stays positive about his former club 😉.
Nice read 👍.

25 Feb 2018 02:26:49
Chelsea are a good side, Champions from last season and appear to stayed with their manager for the time being at least. It won't be easy but it is at OT so we have a good chance as we should have.

Negativity seems to be the favourite mode at the moment led and fed by Beast. Yet we have been in far worse places in recent seasons, we are now competing at the top which we haven't done since SAF was around.

So many on here seem to think the football when SAF was around was beautiful, yet it wasn't, we didn't play expansive football for SAF final years or at other times as well but usually got the job done. I see the appoint a young manager, experience doesn't matter, no doubt after a year playing nice unsuccessful football those people will be happy that we have become irrelevant but the football is nice. We are having a dose of reality, a giant club that appointed two wrong managers allowed the team to fester due to Glazernomics and it needs fixing. If you think a young inexperienced manager can fix not just the first team but every level of the club you are deluded.

This isn't fifa2017 or whatever you play, once you get a manager you can't just keep pressing reset. I am not Jose's biggest fan but he has a difficult job with the state the club has been in, the club needs to take its medicine deal with the issues created over a long time. It happened to Liverpool, SAF knocked them off their perch and they didn't recover, we are trying to recover not from 5 years but nearer 9 years, the decline started then, as it did in 1969.

Finally we are seen as arrogant fans and it's not surprising, we have no devine right to win. I may be thousands of miles away right now but would love to be at OT today to support the team. I think we will win 2.1 good luck to the lads.

25 Feb 2018 04:40:11
"I am not Jose's biggest fan", unless you are a completely different redman to one who normally posts here or I am suddenly in some comic book alternate dimension this is LoL worthy. Every match chat people including me are justly and sometimes unjustly criticizing mourinho and you are there defending him at every turn and blaming everyone else, though normally it's fergie and Glazer's fault.

I agree the football under SAF in his last years wasn't that good but no one is saying it was, nor is anyone asking for breathtaking football, is expecting a manager who has spent 300 mn to maybe show some balls and attack teams like Huddersfield expecting too much.

We park the bus routinely whether the opponent is Man City or Sevilla, what's worse is even the bus parking is poor as it is normally ddg who makes sure we don't concede not our defense. You talk about SAF's football but please show me a game in SAF's 25+ years where we were as negative as we were against City away last season or Liverpool away this season.

How many millions does Jose needs to spend before we say enough? You say this isn't FIFA yet he has spent money like it is, but when fans expect football half as good we are arrogant.

Even the money he has spent looks not so great, Pogba has been average until now and mourinho seems to have fallen out with him now to make matters worse. The 500k man has performed worse than martial was in his position and now there are reports that martial wants to leave because he doesn't seem to think mourinho trusts him. The Everton player we spent big money on is performing at the Everton level, playing well against bottom table rubbish but put a half decent team against him and he goes into a shell dragging utd with him. Matic looks bang average after a god start, mkhi was a failure and lindelof will join him on that list unless there is dramatic improvement.

But hey let's all trust Mourinho. So what if you were pitching a fit since the day Moyes was announced without giving him even a day to prove himself, heck you moaned about a 4-1 win in his opening weekend. But people point out actual faults that mourinho has they are arrogant and playing FIFA.

25 Feb 2018 06:22:16
“Fed and led by Beast” is a bit harsh mate. As is “the decline started 9 years ago”, despite us winning the league in 2009, 2011, and 2013. I agree that SAF’s final few years saw him squeeze every last drop out of the squad he had but isn’t that the key point here? Jose has a far far better squad with some very good players yet he doesn't seem capable of squeezing the bare minimum out of them at the moment. After last year, disappointing football but 2 trophies, I think we all expected us to push on with the signings we made but it hasn’t happened.

Now there are suggestions of a fall out with Pogba, if that mobilises the rest of the players then great but how did we get here. Jose’s famed man management skills appear to be lacking and as I have said several times, I don’t think he is the same Manager any more. His approach is starting to look outdated and he isn’t having the effect on players he used to have when he first arrived.

I th No you are Leighton older than me but I’m not arrogant, I’ve been there through the ‘70’s and 80’s when we were at best a cup team. But you know what? Other than Sexton I enjoyed going to games. Lately, watching us has become painful, made even worse by seeing the football that City, Liverpool, and Spurs play.

So, just to be clear.

1. Jose is nowhere near getting the best out of these players.
2. The way we play is not the United way and if this is how we win trophies then I am not interested.
3. Win today and we maybe get a moment to regather and press again. Lose, and the momentum is with others and God knows how Jose will react.

Jose is apparently one of the best Managers in the world, according to some on here, the best. He needs to start showing it.

25 Feb 2018 06:48:46
CSM
No I am not Mourinhos biggest fan. If I was I would have wanted him at every opportunity. So let’s be clear, again, I wanted him when SAF retired because we needed a manager of his stature to stop us falling off the cliff, which we then did. Moyes was the utter disaster I expected and to replace him I wanted Klopp. When they put lvg in place I wasn’t impressed but thought the club must have a long term plan to appoint Pep once LVG had set the basics as he did at Barca. It turned out to be another error, compounded by not getting Pep. I defended LVG as I am Jose because their CV said they deserve time, Jose’s far more than LVG. When the club failed to line up Pep who I wanted to replace LVG the only answer for me was to go for Jose because we had dug ourselves into a big hole.

AJH
Sextons football was far worse, to the point we used to sit down on the Stretford End and read the programme. Atkinson played good football but again I stood on the End singing about how we had won eff all again. All the while the Liverpool machine won everything.

I support the manager in this instance, you mention how he handles players well does the club support the manager or the player, one brings anarchy. So for me I think we need to support the rebuild and if next season it is the same he will naturally come under pressure. The board sets his objectives and unless they say pretty football is required he has time. I think we need to build solidity a base to attack from and we will flow better then.

25 Feb 2018 07:06:37
Red Man, I see what you are saying but it comes down to has Jose still got it? I don’t think he has and I don’t see him lasting beyond next year. Whilst we are coming at it from different angles I guess we agree that he needs to start to show progress next year. We could finish second this year, or we could finish 5th.

25 Feb 2018 07:20:27
AJH

Lost it? He won 2 major trophies with a side that finished out of the top four. I get what you are saying but the club needs some stability just now and I don’t think another change helps. We haven’t got a strong spine in CD or CM and if he strengthens there I feel we will be better next season. If we aren’t then Jose will be under pressure.

25 Feb 2018 08:20:41
Morning guys,

Important afternoon ahead as we enter a pivotal part of the season.

I must confess I'm with Red Man here. He's lived though the transition of Busby and sees the same mistakes being made again. I think it's wise to heed his warning.

The whole pretty football thing is a bit of a red herring for me. Let's be honest it's a results business, just ask Arsenal fans. If we apply some common sense to the debate if you are playing attractive football but not winning matches then surely that points to deficiencies elsewhere. As is everything in life it's all about balance.

We'd all like to see attractive, attacking football, I'm no different and I get frustrated at times but results matter more, a lot more. Attacking football won't keep you in a job.

Jose has the personality and the pedigree to move us forward in my opinion. Yes his style can be frustrating at times but so can a lot of our players. Lingard, Martial, Rashford, Lukaku, Mata and Pogba still blow hot and cold.

Let's set realistic targets. Jose is 18 months into his rebuilding programme and in general the calibre of his signings have been excellent. If he were to walk away in the summer the next manger would be inheriting a far superior squad to which he took over.

Let's have patience, results and performances are poor at the moment and they must improve soon or Jose will ultimately pay the consequences.

Progress is slower than I expected but I'm happy with Jose's recruitment and I'd be satisfied with a top 4 finish for now. Give him another transfer window and let's see where we are this time next year.

I realise this may be an unpopular post but Jose is a winner. Let's trust his pedigree, we can all see his recruitment has been good. I think he deserves more time despite all the reservations about his style and personality.

25 Feb 2018 08:21:03
Red Man - I notice you never addressed CSM's points about how Jose's signings are performing, do you think his tactics are holding them back or is this the best we can expect from them.
Yes Fergie didn't always go gung ho but we looked like we were playing to a plan whereas we look like a team of strangers at the moment with no plan.
Just because people criticise José doesn't mean that we all think he should be sacked, I want him to maximise the resources he available to him. I think our strength is our attack so let's play to our strengths especially against the so called lesser teams. Even when Fergie parked the bus he had one eye on a counter attack using our speedy attackers to score, something I don't currently see.
As for today I haven't got a clue about the result, I think we are capable of both beating or losing to anyone in the league.

25 Feb 2018 08:38:55
Keanooh

Apologies but am sat by a beach in the Far East after lunchtime refreshments. Jose purchases are better than the remaining SAF Moyes or LVG ones. I think the team are looking over their shoulder at the uncertainty in the centre of defence and that is defining tactics. Strengthen the spine and next season I believe we will be better. Overall there may be a struggle, power wise, the players too cushy in where they are, we have to support the manager on that. We are hard to beat and that is the base for the next phase.

The players are not performing to their best but whilst some look at the manager I also look at the players who too often get away Scot free. I was at OT when there was criticism of Giggs and Becks, at half time Giggs got stick because he was playing poorly but seemingly not trying whilst Becks was playing poorly but trying and got no stick. It’s time there is some heat on the players.

25 Feb 2018 09:03:39
Danny - why does it have to be one or the other between winning and attacking football. Do you really believe that with the attacking players available to us this is the best we can do.
Like Red Man I saw the Busby transition which was a shambles, but how many years do we go on about the Fergie transition he left nearly 5 years ago, surely the transition has taken place. We are now in 'steady state' business and like most clubs we will change managers every 3 - 5yrs, also with Jose's previous record he won't be here that long. I can think of 2 teams who have won the league in the last 3 years who have changed their managers on a regular basis yet they have remained successful, that's the football world today.
I agree with Red Man that Fergie left an ageing squad but we have already made a mess of the transition as the club didn't display a vision of how we wanted to move forward which has resulted in numerous signings who have come and gone and also managers with contrasting styles. With this lack of vision we could end up with our next manager playing a completely different style to José so we would have to rebuild all over again.

25 Feb 2018 09:13:58
Redman weakness in cm and CD, what exactly are pogba, matic, Bailly and lindelof for? Next season we sell ddg it will be we don't have a keeper as good and that will be defining the tactics.

Also please show me a jose player who has been better than either martial or ddg this season?

Also what power struggle are you talking about? Lingard, Jones, Ddg, Smalling, Valencia and Young are the only remaining SAF players of all those only DDG has anything that would resemble power and he is the one that is propping mourinho's anti football.

All these are excuses, factis what mourinho lacks or rather lost at Madrid can't be fixed and much like Lvg we need to dump him. We need a new manager as this one isn't really going to take us forward.

25 Feb 2018 09:17:27
Red Man - José attempted to strengthen the centre of the defence but Bailly is injured most of the time and the jury is out on Lindelof.
I'm not sure I go with the hard to beat because in the big games against the top EPL teams our record is poor, defeats to Chelsea, City and Spurs a couple of draws and only one win. Most seasons it's the results against the top teams that decide who the champions are.
I agree that some of the players don't appear to be giving everything.

25 Feb 2018 10:39:19
CSM

I suspect a couple of players are having a hissy fit, a bit of it’s not fair. If the club don’t back the manager in dealing with them it will be a downward slope. You quote Martial as an example of playing well, to me he is inconsistent, goes missing in key games, plays when it suits. Just my impression, extremely talented but head needs to be right to deliver.
Lindelof, at the price seemed like we bought a potential player, with the club as it is who is making the decisions? Hopefully the manager has an approval but some buys have a feel of potential with increase in value as the reason. SAF didn’t get all the buys right, but the club didn’t buy at a time of strength, putting it in weaker situations. Sell Ronaldo buy Valencia, Rio, Vidic leave? We should have had a good core when SAF left but didn’t so are building almost from scratch

A team needs moulding and another dumping of Manager is naive right now.

25 Feb 2018 10:49:30
Red man, you say we haven't got a strong spine yet Jose has spent 30m on Bailly, 35m on Lindelof, 35m on Matic and 89m on Pogba. So what your saying is Jose has spent 189m on the spine of the team and yet none of them are performing.

Are they had players and therefore bad purchases by Jose? Or is Jose failing to get the best out of them therefore bad management by Jose?

It has to be one of the other?

25 Feb 2018 12:21:00
Jose signings out of 10 so far:

Pogba 5,
Mikhy 3,
Lukaku 6,
Lindelof 4,
Bailly 4, always injured
Sanchez too early, not great so far.

25 Feb 2018 12:34:04
Shappy

Short reply but Matic and Lindelof are not bad players, they are good ones. However they are not the long term top quality United need to challenge at the top, to me they had the feel of stopgap. City spent more on their fullbacks. The two key positions of our spine still need to be addressed.

25 Feb 2018 13:05:22
Keanooh - I'd like both mate but for now I'm happy to be patient and trust Jose's pedigree. I like the calibre of player he's brought to the Club and I just think he deserves a bit more time.

I understand the reservations regarding his style of play and even his character and share most people's frustrations.

I can see merit in the argument that he should be getting more out of the squad, that's he spent a lot of money but sometimes things just take time.

I think it's premature just to dismiss the two trophies he won last year and the title success with Chelsea only two years ago and think he's outdated and lost it but It's hard to win trophies, just ask Wenger, Potch and Klopp.

I'm by no means jumping for joy but I'm prepared to wait for another season at least and see what direction he takes us.