Manchester United Banter Archive June 25 2012

25 Jun 2012 22:10:24
Do you think nani will get the number 7 jersey, Cleverly getting 17 and Kagawa will get 23.

Red Assaissin

The number for Nani...
Hopefully 737 to a european team.

Cretins and the Emu

25 Jun 2012 21:10:44
I have no inside info at all, my dogs cat does not have an owner who collects rubbish at the old trafford superstore etc... but i do think all our purchases are done for the year (though another midfielder - central would be great). I think we have a very strong squad for next year if we can keep everyone fit. The biggest challenge we had last year was all of the injuries. I think the following would be one hell of a team, and i think cleverly and ando could do a great job in the positions below.

---------------De gea -----------------

Rafael -- Smalling -- Vidic -- evra

------Cleverly ----- Anderson----------

----Valencia ---- Kawaga ---- Nani--------

--------------Rooney -----------------

If we could keep this team, it would very hard to beat us. Lets not forget, we were on fire until clevery and ando got injured last year...

And we still have a strong bench:
Rio
Jones
Evans
Scholes
Giggs
Fletcher
Young
Hernandez
Welbeck

In my opinion, theres not a manager in the premier league that would not have their mouth watering at those options :)

DaraghK {Ed004's Note - Tbh the midfield would be torn apart in Europe. It is far too open. Imo I could see teams like Bayern soaking up the pressure and hitting us on the break and scoring a tonne of goals. For that to work you would need someone like Carrick or M'Villa in midfield, also it is unlikely we could keep Cleverley or Anderson fit for the season}

Agree with Ed4 that midfield 2 would leave us too open in big games. Even Carrick - who hasn't made the bench even - adds better defensive cover than either Clev/Ando

Gav

Fair point ed :)
Possibly using Fletcher(if he comes back-fingers crossed) and jones in there might solidify the area.
I just can't see us buying another big name player as our primary targets seem to be going elsewhere - the wages been rumoured are crazy
I am very optimistic about next season though and i really think we have a great squad.
Europe will take time, i don't think we can challenge for a year or two - simple because of billionaires with too much pocket change buying whoever they want - at least we buy players with money we have accumalated.... i trust fergies judgement

The biggest worries for me is fergies health scares, lets hope it the media exadurating.... any info on this Ed, is it just paper taking ink, or is fergies health an issue?

DaraghK

Have you ever thought (eds, anyone who thinks we desperately need a ball winner) that the answer may lie in training and tactics fitness etc, Spain e barca close the opposition down so well up top and the defence move with the midfield so tightly that as a collective they have the best defensive unit in Europe and the world respectively?

Could this not be achieved with training e tactics, I am sure it is what AVB was trying to do at Chelsea but the primodonnas didnt like the extra work, they much prefer to lie deep and let the donkey that is mikel and mierles do all the work.

Just a thought.

Cban {Ed004's Note - I agree that there are games when we won't need a solid DM but Barcelona get away with it in the Spanish league as they don't have strong physical players like Yaya running at their defence weekly}

Maybe, i do remember when Saf used to play phil nevielle up against viera after keane left.

I just think we are slow at getting the ball from back to front. We need players in the mid that are quick with the ball, not fanny about passing it about throughout the defence (i realise this is the english way)

There is only scholes at the mo that collects from the defence and dispenses to the attack(this is why SAF wants Modric i believe). Carrick is slow on the ball and plays it to the defenders to play it out, address this and we will be instantaneously better (beginning of last season proves my point)

Compare Busquets to Carrick, same role similar attributes. Busquets is just quicker at turning defense into attack by moving the ball quicker to xavi and inesta, not passing it back to puyol or pique. (i know, carrick doesnt hit the deck as much as Busquets).

Over peoples opinions would be nice as

again this is all just my opinion.

Cban

Cban - I'm pretty sure Phil Neville left the summer before Keane was shown the exit - so would suggest that your memory may be failing you a little. Either that, or mine is!

T0MB0Z

As soon as I saw kawaga I stopped reading aha. Pretty sure its kagawa

MaccaTheRed!

25 Jun 2012 20:23:31
I have a feeling the next BIG target United are going to turn to and put all there focus on is James Rodriguez.

Nani will be staying as United have told him contract talks will begin when he returns from Euro 2012. He will be brought in as a replacement for the legend that is Ryan Giggs. He is seen as a natural replacement for Giggs with a quality left-foot. Even though we will already have Nani, Young and Valencia. Fergie believes the kid will be special and doesn't want to wait until next summer when big money teams like Madrid,Barcelona,Man City etc come in and offer stupid money.

fearny

Makes sense to me, hopefully if we got him and he settled well and quick Giggs would retire like Gary Nev did when he realised he couldn't hack it anymore.

It would be either Rodriguez or Nani, not both my friend. If Nani signs a new deal then it's unlikely we are looking at any new LW and the manager has decided to keep Nani after losing out on Hazard. Personally I think Nani will still be sold. Just my opinion though.

Sydney!

Personally Sydney I think we could easily have both at the club. Nani on the right and Rodriguez on the left would be the best option as they have so much skill...but then again i much prefer the Latino flair style to the more direct running of someone like Valencia. If any winger were to be sold i'd rather it be Young.

RedDevil19 {Ed004's Note - I agree}

19, it's not my preference mate. It's what I believe will happen. It will be one or the other.

Sydney!

Why do you not think we could have both? Financial reasons? Or Saf doesn't want him anymore? I don't see why Nani would have to go...

RedDevil19

But Nani should be played on the right - not the left !

If we got Rodriguez then SAF would have options of Rodriguez or Young or Goggs on the left and Toni (esp if he wanted a more conventional winger for a particular game) or Nani - on the right

Mike

19, because there is no need for four top quality wingers and we will have to balance the books. We cannot spend a fortune without bringing some cash in. We are a self sufficient club. I will be very surprised if we spend more than £50m (net) this summer. £100m (net) over two summers is a good spend for a self sufficient football club. It would be Nani or Rodriguez, not both IMO.

Sydney!

Our net spend was 38 mill last year
jred

Jred, I think you are excluding agent fees, signing on fees and other hidden costs which are relevant to this discussion. It's not as simple as subtracting outgoing player's transfer fees from the incoming player's transfer fees. A club's net spends will include other costs.

Sydney!

Syd
So when you say you expect net spend of 50 mill this summer do you actually mean a spend of 38 mill on players plus agent fees etc.
I no it sounds clever but if we stick with this thinking for every transfer rumour every player valuation it would not make the site a bit boring , I can't remember the last time I had a pint with the lads talking football and said " we should sign modric might get him for x amount , plus vat , plus agent fees etc
Jred

Syd
Also syd I'm not sure how much emphasis is placed on net spend at business level I always thought it was more a media / fan topic in fact I can remember seeing a net spend when agent fees etc are added I think that more for the boardroom than banter between fans
Jred

A player's cost is more than just the fee jred. The fee is one part of the player's overall cost. Agent fees are another, signing on fees, tax on transfer fees and tax on agent fees are other costs. Tax on transfer fees is deductible and United will get that money back, but tax on agent fees I believe they will not get back. So in the pub we can say that a ten million player cost ten million, because that's his fee, but in reality he has cost the club probably 20% more overall. So the most accurate way to look at a club's net spend is through their financial accounts. This is exactly how Swiss Ramble and Andy Green determine a net spend.

Sydney!

Syd
I agree with your not telling me anything I don't know but when talking about it on this site I don't think people take it in to account for example when you said net spend of 50 mill this summer are u including agent fees etc really

Syd
also i think when andy green etc talk about it its more net investment as % of EBITA, which will include total investment in the club
when fans or media talk about net spend it just x player sold - x player bought = net spend.
jred

We should be far more interested in net profit, and more importantly where the net profit goes. In recent years the amount of money that has been reinvested in the club has decreased as a percentage of net profit, i.e. our profits are increasing at a much higher rate than the amount the Glazers are putting back in.

Danny Pughnited

I was asked by RD19 why I believed we wouldn't keep Nani and buy Rodriguez and I said because we would have no need for four top wingers at the club and I said we would need to balance the books as I couldn't see us spending much over £50m (net) this summer as well as last summer. That is my opinion, but the figures are fact, we did net spend over £50m last summer. I think if people want to compare our spends to other clubs or even criticise the club for lack of spending (previous discussions) then they should deal in facts, not just part of them. The fee is just one part of the total figure.

Sydney!

Danny, our operational profits have been spent on transfers, land/property, refinancing of debt, admin/management fees, interest and buying back bonds. Obviously much more of the profits have gone on the Glazer's debt compared to squad improvements. This is of course the reason why the Glazers are hated at our club. Lumbering us in debt has cost the club hundreds of millions. But I do think there is cash available if the manager wants it. That is just my opinion though.

Sydney!

Syd
just trying to see what you mean by net spend of 50 mill.
for example last year united bought players with a transfer value of 52 mill and sold players with a transfer value of 15 mill which gives you a net transfer on players value only of 37 mill.
this is how swiss ramble works out
"net transfer spend"
agent fees tax etc are calculated in to revenues/ profit trends.
andy does the same whenlooking at evertons net spend
this is a genuine question were can I see the figures that our net spend on transfers for the last 12 month was over 50 mill
im not trying to be awkward just trying to see where you are coming from because a net spend including tax agent fees on both players sold and bought etc is very different from "net transfer spend"
a net transfer spend including every cost could mean as little as 20/28 mill actually being spent on players.
jred

According to Andy Green the net transfers spend was:

-47,029 (in other words £47m)

Sydney!

Syd
lol is that what you are going of that line in the annual chart.
Have a look at uniteds results and see what uniteds TOTAL transfer spend is for the same period
jred

Jred, the confirmed figures will be released in September. But Andy Green's figures are pretty accurate.

Sydney!

His not talking about net transfer spend in the way your taking it but it's no biggy like

If we have a net spend of 50 mill this summer it would be great
If we have a net spend of 50 mill including tax agents etc it would be poor
Jred

The figures will include 10-15% agent fees, signing on fees, but not Tax.

Andy Green priced DDG at £18.3m, Jones at £16.5m and Young at £16m. That is a total of £50.8m. If the net transfer spend is £47m then are you saying we only sold players to the value of £3.8m? It doesn't add up my friend.

Sydney!

25 Jun 2012 18:50:07
Macheda has potential if people would stop dissing him. If he was as bad as you say he wouldn't still be at the club would he? After all fergie knows best!

He is only at the club because no one will buy him. He is not a part of the manager's future plans.

Sydney!

Both clubs he's gone to on loan have changed managers as soon as he's arrived. He needs at least one more chance at some point IMO. IF he suddenly got a couple of goals people opinions would change.

Supasub

He's probably the reason the left..

JK92

I agree he has potential but to be honest it hasn't shown up. Also, yes he is still at our club but it isn't easy to sell because he really has nothing to show. Sometimes, it doesn't work out and a flop is a flop.

I have it on good authority that Macheda is very much in Ferguson's plans for next season and he is the reason no striker will be bought as he is going to be the 4th striker. My information backed up later today by comments made by Macheda's agent

fearny

Macheda's attitude has been his biggest problem, since that goal against Villa its like he thinks he's already made. There's been various stories of him falling out of nightclubs and casino's in the early hours with birds acting like he's a big time charlie. Now i'm not sure how much truth there is in whats little more than gossip or if its just jealousy by others but if true then its had a knock on effect on his game. And if true thats what he needs to sort out. However i don't think Fergie has the patience he has compared to 20 years ago when he was dragging Giggsy out of house parties. And he certainly doesnlt have the time to try and gamble on if a partty boy can get his act together. I'm leaning more towards Syds version on this.

We tried offloading him to Sampdoria for a nominal fee, we are looking to get him a loan with view to a permanent move. Kiko will not be our 4th striker next season Fearny mate.

Sydney!

I'd give him another loan, see if the manager stays at the loanee club, then see how he does. He has been very unlucky and deserves one more chance. He promised so much when he was a youngster.

RedDevil19

19, clearly you know nothing about Kiko and his appalling attitude. Did you know he used to refuse to play in reserve games and used to turn up to training pissed from the night before? A different bird every night and casinos during the week days.

Sydney!

19, clearly you know nothing about Kiko and his appalling attitude. Did you know he used to refuse to play in reserve games and used to turn up to training pissed from the night before? A different bird every night and casinos during the week days.

Sydney!


Maybe AC Milan then and he can get quite 'cosy' at the owners erm parties ;-)

Jono

Not surprising you rub people up the wrong way SIDNEY ! Please accept u don't know everything at the club cause you read a lot of stuff in papers and the Internet . Its extremely tedious ! We have like other clubs a long history of players who have been through this , some exposed some stayed within the club , some stayed and some went and it's wasn't always the superstars who stayed. He'd have been offloaded for a couple of mill if ferguson wanted him out in January NEYSID6

Sounds like the boys got everything, if he gets a chance and gets a goal or two I couldn't care less about whatever goes on outside.

Supasub

None of this come from the papers. The manager can only offload him if a club wants him. Clubs will not part with more than a couple of million unless they have tested him first. This is why they will send him out on loan with a view to a permanent move. They cannot get to see him play at United because he isn't good enough and he refuses to play in the reserves (another reason why he will not be our 4th striker). The manager may parade him during the preseason tour to try and get other clubs interested, but I think that would be a waste of a space. Someone else from the youth could have his spot. Another reason why he will not be wanted at United is because he is too slow and will not fit in with our new style of play which the manager is looking to adopt next season. Kiko is slower than Berba. Besiktas would be a good move for him if he doesn't reject this latest offer too.

Sydney!

25 Jun 2012 18:31:27
Pablo Aimar! Yeah right lol.

25 Jun 2012 18:33:44
So Kagawa has turned down the number 7 shirt... I reckon another "marquee" signing could be coming our way!

How do you get kagawa turning down the Number 7 meaning a new marquee signing is on the way?

fearny

Surely if he turned down the no.7 then it was offered to him and not being offered to this new 'marquee signing'.

Kai

Agree with Kai, the fact he has been offered the 7 shirt certainly suggest he was the big exciting signing of the summer for us. Its a little naive if you believe "Hey Kagawa doesnt want it so we better go and buy another 7 instead"
Invisible STuey

If this is true, we just solved half of the midfield problem. Be mentally prepared, the risk to lose CL, EPL next season are still as high.

25 Jun 2012 18:09:51
Darklord,r u an extra out of lord of the rings'

I was discussing how poor young and Rooney were at the euros and discussed to stydney earlier how poor all the English team were focusing on Milner etc. He asked y downing was in the 23 when really no one cares,why dont I ask why ray Quinn was waterboy lol' if we were talking about englands euro performances. Use man utd boys deflect attention by talking squited brown paint'

Yes lfc have some tripe in our squad,however all players have their weaknesses' carrol will turn out a very good player though people especialy man utd fans say he can't take a free kick,he can't link up and isn't technically good etc however he has great aerial ability a powerful left foot and heart. Rooney isn't 6:2 and young is no ronaldo' use r bias fans and have nothing better to do with your time than talk about what lfc players can't do instead of what Manutd players can do.


We created more chances than most of the top last season bar man city, fact'even with our so called abismall squad. We are just missing a top goal scorer to put the ball in the net and not old traffords stands' and a quailty winger and midfielder which we are alreay pushing for. Sure we will defo not be contending on all fronts as man utd and city will but in the near future we will be challenging once again.

On a final note, LFC's owners are responsible and will invest but wisely within the clubs capabilty. United however are the richest club in the world and have the biggest turnovers, yet the big players are never on your radar enough? The glazers are using your club to fix their debts. We lfc have heart as a whole have heart, some within man utd just want to line their pockets. Thats what separates lfc and Manutd and id rather
support an avg lfc team than win with a club thats serves the needs of others. Mate theirs a book written for you there,im sure I can give you an autograph if ur nice(wink)

Melbourne' {Ed004's Note - Next time do not post "Manu" instead post Man Utd I can't be bothered to edit it in, if not I will probably just delete it...}

The reason you probably had more attacks is due to teams realising how sh1t you are and attacking you instead of sitting back and defending like they do against united and city..

JK92

Melbourne

Didn't read the earlier post, sorry!

I wasn't in Lord of the Rings. Couldn't afford the airfare to New Zealand. Otherwise I would have made a great hobbit.

I thought Carroll did well at the Euros, personally. I watched the Ukraine game with a load of LFC fans who were all slagging him off and baying for him to be subbed...

Anyway, we know Young isn't Ronaldo, we know Rooney isn't Messi. The point I'd make about Young is that he was played in a role he can't play, which is Hodgson's fault. Hodgson played 4-4-2 every game, regardless of how the opposition was set-up. Personally, I don't think, man-for-man, that Italian team is better than the England team it played, they just had better tactics. Certainly Pirlo (who everyone purred about) ain't better than Gerrard.

As to club owners... I'm no fan of the Glazers. But I'm surprised you're defending FSG, who's record so far isn't brilliant, either in terms of appointing managers or buying playing personnel. And if you think FSG bought LFC for charity and not to make a profit, you're very wrong.

Finally, I'm not overly bothered about the world's "best" players. I'd rather we kept up our record for developing players into that club, rather than buying them ready made. I think you'll find the Manchester club that does that lives a little bit North of here.

DarkLard08

P.S. I'd ask for your autograph but I'm worried you might ruin your PC screen...

Nice answer ed 004... 3 cheers to you..
rodio17

Typical pool fan, hmmm if we hadn't hit the woodwork we'd be in the top 4 blah blah blah.

'Some within Man Utd just want to line their pockets, Liverpool have heart' - lmao - so Liverpool don't pay their players anymore - just a thank you is it.

Please be realistic nowadays football is a business to the owners and players no matter who the club is.

Heard it all before yawn.

Heard it every manager since Evan's. And since Phill Babb and John Scales were the missing pieces in the title puzzle.

Sure we'll be hearing the same in 12 months when your talking up yet another manager when your "fans" have turned on Rodgers because he cannot match your over hopeful expectations.

See Rodgers had technically gifted players like Sinclair, Allen and Brittain and instead he gets the likes of Downing and Henderson instead and you expect him to replicate Swansea? Poor poor bloke.

25 jun 2012 17:39:42
i love manchester united and i have to say the fans are living in the clouds!!

all you ever here our fans giving off about is lack of "world class" talent at the club!!

here is a list of players..... fabio, park, scholes, giggs, anderson, cleverly, fletcher, bebe, macheda!!

surely that lot should be shown the door....

why is there so many fans looking nani out????
we need to keep our big players at the club.. are we really a selling club ?

lets get behind nani and stop moaning about him

glazers out

Im sorry but, Giggs and Scholes are world class, yes may be old but that means nothing plus also Cleverly is young and has a very bright future. -JakeW

Scholes and Giggs can stay as long as they want. It's called repaying loyalty. That doesn't mean they have to pay.

As for getting rid of Cleverly.... Sometimes I despair, I really do.

DarkLard08

Why would you want Cleverly and Fabio gone already? Bit harsh there

Also, I'd keep Scholes for one more year. If he can give us 25 performances as good as last season then why not

Gav

25 Jun 2012 17:15:07
And didn't we dodge a bullet with Ashley Young? Downing has his critics but compared to Young he is fine

Puzzled
---------------------
Lolz

G.A.G.U.S

Yeah, those 0 assists and 0 goals really shown young up..

JK92

Dodged a bullet? I think you were shot at least six times with Carroll, Downing, Henderson, Suarez, Adam & Dalglish.

Sydney!

Downing has his critics??

Even Mr and Mrs Downing have to be critical of their first-born's lack of talent.

A good mate of mine is a Boro fan and he couldn't believe it when Villa paid cash money for him rather than buttons, bits of chewing gum etc.

A woeful player - one that typifes the strength of both the England squad and the Liverpool title challenge any time in the next 20 years.

Ashley Young's offensive play for England was not upto it for sure. Maybe he got so much game time though due to lack of decent reserves to come in and replace him. (Cue Walcott came on and saved us against Sweden blah blah blah).

Halesini

I know I almost gave myself a hernia from over-lol'ing when I read this post earlier

Thanks Puzzled for brightening up my day!

Gav

Shot by Suarez? Suarez is arguably better then every United player at present.

Tom.

Keep telling yourself that Tom, you might actually finish higher than 8th!

CnM

25 Jun 2012 17:06:05
hi, just wanna say guys can you be realistic ,I reckon we should go for tiote no javi martinez which is proberly going to bayern munich,you see tiote is strong like javi martinez and has a clever style to playing which united need, also i have seen videos of james rodriquez play and his a great player but i think we should give nani a second chance infact nani loves manchester united but you always have your good and bad days in football infact nani isnt getting a chance to have a good game because we are not even playing him,anyway this would be a posative squad i reckon if we had this and all we need for this is tiote.

de gea

jones ferdinand vidic evra

Tiote Scholes

valencia Kagawa nani

Rooney

What game is he supposed to play in during the close season?

GDS

I'm sorry, I have seen Tiote's name mentioned by a few people and although he brings a physical presence, I just don't think his passing is good enough for what SAF is trying to develop at the club, I really don't know what you mean by ''clever style to playing''.

This however is just my opinion.

I think we should push for Strootman personally.

Ports

25 Jun 2012 17:00:38
Young is overated,technically poor on the ball and was found out in euros against quailty opposition and that was before the Germans and Spain.welback is a good finisher but is a Darren bent,thats in itself explains it all'. Rooney promised so much and though is a top player,he is not on ronaldo's or messi's level and that is what seperates him from being a truly great player because you have to match or better the Same players in the present era. Rooney is a Murray,not Nadal or Federer'. Back to football,united are a good team not great but what is keeping them competing at the top is fergie and a winning mentality that gets the job done'. Kawaga is a skillful,very promising player and powel is raw with mounts of potential. City will win the title next ýear and man u will struggle in all competitions if they do not sign that midfielder that runs and dictates the play.Simples'. P.s stydney,lfc will be in the top four, keep dreaming of eigth as uve nothing else to dream about'

melbourne'

Melbourne

Young isn't technically poor. He was out of position and didn't perform at all for England. Welbeck is much more than just a Darren Bent, as you will find out over the next 5 years. Rooney has been struggling for form for some time, in my opinion. I'd definitely agree he hasn't reached the level he once promised to, but he is an exceptional centre forward nonetheless. Still, Henderson, eh?

As to Sydney's prediction for LFC - he's being kind, I think. At the start of last season I said 7th or 8th for LFC and got laughed at by their fans. Next season - without significant improvements to the first team (and deepening of the squad) - they will finish behind City, United, Arsenal, Chelsea, Spurs, Newcastle and Everton, and will struggle to hold off challenges from the likes of Sunderland and Fulham. If Martinez stays at Wigan and he keeps his squad together, LFC might be lucky to finish 10th.

DarkLard08

Must be a scouser as he hasn't learn what paragraphs are yet...

Welbeck is a good finisher? I don't think even the biggest United fan would think that, he is the total opposite of Darren Bent with a lot more potential.

Give me some stats / facts that back up that Liverpool will be a top 4 team next season?

GDS

You seriously think liverpoo will be above spurs, newcastle, arsenal and chelsea...
you can't even get above everton..

JK92

Strangely enough mate I actually agreed with a lot of your post until you lost all credibility with "lfc will be in the top four" LOL

Young is OK, certainly will never be world class but a good squad player nonethe less. He has been shocking at the Euro's. I'm guessing you support L'pool though - strange how you forgot to mention Downing (who hardly excells in the same position, understatement!) in your post

Rooney is a top class player but I must agree that he's not in the same league as Messi or Ronaldo, so people shouldn't try to put him there. Your tennis analogy doesn't quite work though as football is a team game so you can win plenty of 'grand slams' even if you don't have a player seeded no.1 in your ranks (so to speak). Rooney is certainly good enough to build a winning team around as he has proved time and time again at United. He did have a poor Euro's though and looked lacking in fitness/sharpness

Kagawa and Powell are 2 great signings for now an the future and the international transfer window has not yet opened, so you may have jumped the gun a little with your predicitions

Like I said you made a couple fair points but ruined it with the last line!

If you know City will win next year - you may as well put any spare cash you have on a bet right now....that is unless you're not so sure?

Gav

Liverpool are in massive decline.

2010 - 7th
2011 - 7th
2012 - 8th

The facts don't lie. With Suarez, Skrtel, Johnson & Reina all possibly leaving, I think you may drop into the bottom page. 7th is the best you can hope for next season, I think we will finish 35+ points ahead of you AGAIN.

Sydney!

25 Jun 2012 16:13:39
Who's that Guy?
I don't know if anyone else noticed , but last nights commentator, Guy somebody or other had a distinct downer on the three United players who played last night as he did in previous games,i wonder who he supports ?
Raffa

Rooney was awful, Young was awful, and Welbeck didn't have much of a chance, to be fair.
I'm a huge fan of all three players but you have to admit when they've played bad.
It was embarrassing but Young, Rooney (and Milner) were the worse players in an England shirt.
Glen Johnson was the best IMO.

M.D.

In his defense - Young was abysmal (as he was all tournament) and Rooney failed to make an impact. Welbeck was the only United player worthy of any praise.

T0MB0Z

Not sure but he was talking sense i didnt even realise welbeck was playing until he got subbed and i never noticed young was playing until he missed a penalty

take your united glasses off

curt

As said above Young and Rooney were terrible last night TBF. Young has been shocking all tournament. Wellbeck hasn't been able to make much of an impact. I'm not being negative here just saying it as it is. Fortunately how they play for England doesn't have a direct impact on how they play for United. Rooney looked so far off his usual pace in both games. I know he's been out for a few weeks (no footy) but he just didn't seem that fit to me

IMO neither Young or Wellbeck should be starting big games for us yet. I'm glad they're both in the squad but Wellbeck needs to develop/improve and Young is just not good enough to help us overhaul teams like Barca, Real, Bayern etc.

Gav

p.s. my opinions are based on the whole of last season as well as the Euro's

25 Jun 2012 14:55:58
United are setting there sights on Bale as he wants to leave the club (depending on the new coach) we could buy him,depending with we don't manage to get Rodgregez

25 Jun 2012 15:03:11
Modric is just like Moutinho they hardly score goals and keep the ball very well. Moutinho should be back up if we don't get modric. The only thing tipping modric over Moutinho is premiership expirance. Ed is there any interest in Moutinho. would love him at united.

I'd happily take either

Gav

25 Jun 2012 14:59:41
Hey guys Arsenal fan here, coming in peace.
I was just wondering how you think the top 6 will look like at the end of next season, my guess would be:
1. Man u / city - it will be close
2. man u / city
3.chelsea - they are signing quality players and are yet again buying their way in.
4. Arsenal - if RVP stays
5.Newcastle- they will only get better
6. Liverpool - Brennan Rogers is ok, could renovate there team
and 5pur2 haha at this rate its a fight to stay up (;
cheers guys, opinions welcomed

1.United
2.City
3.Chelsea
4.Arsenal
5.Newcastle
6.Spurs
7.Everton
8.Liverpool

Sydney!

I would say thats how it might look but id say spurs 5th,newcastle 6th and the scousers 7th

phil

Sydney! - agree with your list but have a feeling (if the carry on the way they finished) that Wigan will be above Liverpool

Mike

Too early to tell. If the teams stay as they are at this moment -

Chelsea
City
United
Arsenal
Spurs
Newcastle
Liverpool

I can't see Spurs keeping hold of Bale and Modric however, nor Arsenal RVP. Chelsea and City will both strengthen and we will hopefully follow suit with a quality central midfielder. Liverpool will spend - but on good rather than top quality players. If all this happens -

United
Chelsea
City
Newcastle
Arsenal
Liverpool
Spurs

T0MB0Z

Come on Syd I think the scousers will improve next year...I reckon they might scrape 7th back from Everton

Agree with the rest of Sydney's prediction although I cannot call the winner sadly, either us or City IMO

Gav

25 Jun 2012 13:20:14
Good afternoon Ed, do you have any little snippets of United news to report today? Thanks.

Sydney! {Ed002's Note - Nothing I can think of Syd.}

25 Jun 2012 13:31:42
I think that in the english leagues there should be a mid-season break, it would give the players a rest, possibly improve their performance when they come back and possibly improve the international performance ( mainly english players ). I'm interested to see what peoples opinions are? But also do people think there should be system such as minimum of 5 homegrown players in starting line-ups, its used in other leagues in Europe and in my opinion it would increase the competition. Teams like us, chelsea, city and arsenal etc would not be allowed to have squads of world superstars but rather look for homegrown gems perhaps.
sparky

They don't use a minimum of 5 english starters in other Leagues...and it would make our League much worse. People are more bothered about club football, not internationals, so making our club football worse and probably not making internationals much better would be a disaster.

RedDevil19

I completely agree with the homegrown ruling, just wish that homegrown meant homegrown. Every side should have at least nine homegrown players in their match-day 18. I think all sides should have at least four players from their country in their starting line-up.

Sydney! {Ed004's Note - Completely disagree. I think 8 in the overall squad is fair enough as atleast the clubs will not forget the England team but we would be weakening the premier league if we implemented the rule. Not all United fans support England so I do not see why Manchester united should try to help the English national team when it looks down at united players such as Ferdinand}

It doesn't just help england etc though, im my opinion it would make the league more competitive and equal.
sparky

Would you really want to ruin the EPL and make it a much weaker League? I certainly wouldn't. Club football is much more enjoyable and i completley agree with ed004 on this occasion.

RedDevil19

Ed004, I do not think that is why such a rule should be implemented. Manchester United are an English club and therefore should play a certain amount of English players. Some players that are products of Greater Manchester. That is just my opinion. To be fair we could easily name nine homegrown players in our match-day 18.

Smalling, Jones, Evans, Rafael, Fabio, Cleverley, Powell, Rooney, Carrick, Scholes, Welbeck, Fletcher, Giggs, Ferdinand, Young.

That is without mentioning the youth players.

Sydney! {Ed004's Note - Yes we would be fine but I do not think it should be forced upon any squad, how many of the English players are world class? It would without a doubt lower the leagues quality unless something is done about the youth systems}

One thing I do agree with from this thread is that there are too many games in a season. If there were 5-10 less (whether international or club) I think fitness levels would be higher and we would see consistently better quality. Unfortunately this will not happen as money rules

It just seems silly to build up to a huge tournament like the Euro's/World Cup only to see a number of players looking lethargic and unable to show their best abilities, as well as the many players missing through injuries picked up in the last hectic bit of the club season

Side note - the timing of international friendlies randomly during a season is a joke. I think it would work far better if there were say 3 designated periods for all international football matches within a season (rather than spread sparadically). That way, the squad could get together for a longer period and wouldn't have to fleet between club and country so much. You could have a 3 week period of say 2 international friendlies followed by 3 qualifiers, then back to club for a few undisturbed months

Gav

25 Jun 2012 12:15:35
All i can say is that thank goodness Young, Welbeck and Rooney can have a rest now and can take part in pre-season. We were never going to get past the Italians, we are a very poor side and once against stook with the old guard who have failed before. Its a shame that Richards, Smalling, Wilshere etc were injured. But now was the time to play the youth that were fit, see what they can do and give them a tournament feel. The next generation like Cleverly, Sturridge, Johnson etc are technically gifted and will do better in the future.

But enough about England, we are out, so we can focus back on club football now which is far more enjoyable! And for those of you thinking that the Aimar rumours are true...caughtoffside broke the story...says it all really.

RedDevil19

25 Jun 2012 11:44:52
Food for Thought: Age does'nt matter if you can still perform at the highest level. SAF still insists with Giggs and Scholes and we know they are there for all the right reasons. Now lets take this one step forward, we've purchased Kagawa & Powell ( Good young prospects ) so back to the original point what about a cheeky bid for one or two year deal for Pirlo whereby he shares the role in midfield with Scholes over the season to keep them both fresh. This guy has been absolute quality over a decade or more and last nights performnce was absolute magnificent. Hate to say this but Rooney nor Gerrard could contain him and what an asset this guy would be for a couple of seasons..... Any thoughts welcomed ?

Salford Viking.

Pirlo has been rubbish this tournament right up until they played England we made him look the best player in the world because we didn't get inside of 10 yards of him all night. He definately wouldn't get that in the prem

Pardoe

A 33yo Pirlo would not be first choice but I wouldn't be surprised if Fergie puts in a cheekly bid for him. He clearly believes that age does not matter if you can perform week in week out and folks will remember Blanc and Larsson when they came, albeit fleetingly, were the wrong side of 33 from memory.

Scholes / Pirlo vying for the same berth in midfield would be a good option if the likes of Modric aren't on the agenda.


Halesini

25 Jun 2012 10:53:39
Smalling cleverly Sturridge Adam Johnson wilshire all players that could of made a difference at the euros.

Ok some not available due to injuries but Sturridge and Johnson Should of gone in my opinion think we would of got further with those lot.


Dwright

Smalling was injured, all the others cant get a regular start for the club teams.thats the problem
jred

U said it bro... was going to write same thing today :(

Smalling, Wilshere & Cleverley had injuries or was still recovering from injuries. Sturridge and Johnson are greedy players and not regulars at their clubs, however why take dreadful Downing and not play him. Surely Johnson or Sturridge would have been a better shout after Downing's woeful season. Now is the time to start playing the younger players.

Sydney!

Some of those listed were unavailable due to injury but as a general point England missed a trick by not blooding more youthful players.

Though to be blunt, England is only secondary. Now that we are out of the Euros we can concentrate on who we are gonna be getting in for next season!!


Halesini

25 Jun 2012 09:40:45
Hodgson was wrong to leave Rio at home. I am a Celtic fan who thinks that Rio is a class player. He
appears to be a down to earth hard working player and not a PRIMA DONNA like the Chelski players who were in the team CM

You have to wonder why he took Downing and not Lennon or Johnson. He was unlucky with Wilshere being injured, Lampard being injured & even the average Barry, but Scholes and Carrick alongside Gerrard wouldn't have made a bad midfield.

Sydney!

Cole and terry were pretty much flawless so totally disagree.

we lost on pens. would rio score a pen?

doubtful

Cole, Terry & Johnson were pretty good agreed, but then they would be when they had another back four playing just in front of them ;)

Sydney!

Yeah, fair play to G.Johnson. He gets a lot of stick on here from time to time, but he was one of the better players last night.

M.D.

25 Jun 2012 09:32:50
The way I see it is England have been poor all tournament. Very dull to watch, the midfield has been overrun in every game we have played in and the attack hasn't been sharp enough. Young has had a poor tournament, Rooney needed more games to get into the swing of things and Welbeck needed more chances put his way. The gap between midfield and attack was ridiculous. The set-up has been too defensive and that is why we have failed to make enough opportunities to score goals. Italy were far too superior for us and deserved to go through. France were better than us and so were Sweden so I have no quarrels about going out this early as we deserved nothing more. Germany could bring on Goetze, Reus or Kroos. England brought on Carroll, Henderson and Walcott, that says it all to me. Well now we are out of the competition I expect we will see Young, Rooney, Welbeck & Jones all play a part in the preseason tour after a good month's rest.

Sydney!

Just a point ...team finished with 4 Liverpool players who finsihed mid table. Too many players with no quality in the squad.

Bullseye50

Quite simply we haven't got good enough players, i think we done the best we could with what we got
jred

We were far too negative jred, that was our downfall. I would have rather went out playing good football and trying to win games as opposed to trying to not lose games. We never did the best we could have done with those players, we were too negative.

Sydney!

Young and milner probs most ineffective wingers ever

Simply put Italy have played that way forever. You guys came up against a team that have that way of playing engrained into them from birth. It was like new pretenders v Old masters. The way you played was more suited to going up against Spain or Germany who would have attacked more and allowed for your breaks to be effective. Italy snuffed out almost every attack and smothered your breaking players from the off. What I still find unbelievable is why no manager with England has any sort of plan B. I watched and waited to see what the subs would mean to change in formation but nothing changed.

England on quality are very much equal with the Italians yet when you tried playing them at their own game it looked like men v boys. Even though I am Scottish I was wanting you to change tactic and go up 3 v 3 i the middle and give them a far bigger challenge in there but nothing.

Oh well then just have the monster friendly v Us next year to look forward to haha.

Jono

Syd
we havent got the players to play that way, do you honestly think that if woy had decided to have a go we would of played any better, when was the last time england played a great game?
i'm not his biggest fan but woy done the best he could with the players he had
jred

Jono
you make a good point we should of had an extra man in the middle which would of helped us pick up pirilo, but maybe the plan was for one of the strikers to do that
jred

Young was poor last night and hasn't been great all tournament, but to be fair he was receiving the ball in the LB position when he should have been playing further up the field and receiving the ball there. But if Woy wants to play two LB's, four CB's and two RB's what can you do ;)

Sydney!

Jred, we couldn't have played any worse than we did. If we had tried to play football instead of parking the bus in every game we could have done better yes. Young wasn't played to his strengths and neither was Gerrard. Both should have been further up the field.

Sydney!

For all the praise of Roy's tactical genius, wow he knows just when to make the right substation etc, he didn't watch the Fergie masterclass on Pirlo. Remember when Fergie stuck park on Pirlo like a bad rash, and he didn't get a sniff of the ball?

Stop Pirlo and you stop Italy playing. If he had any sense he would have put Milner or Jones manmarking Pirlo and made sure that he had Walcott on the right for quick counter attacks. It's a bit stupid playing two strikers when you have no intention of attacking in the first place. The team played with spirit but even Ireland created more against Italy. It would have been a travesty if Roy's boring boring 8-1-1 formation made it to the semi-final, just deserts if you ask me.

Danny Pughnited

Syd
everyone to there own but when was the last time england played good attacking football against a top team.
its dead easy saying we should of played more positive but i dont think we had the players.
jred

Danny, I couldn't agree more. Why Henderson was playing ahead of Jones we will never know, I think a midfield of Jones, Gerrard and Parker would have been a better way to go when considering his substitutions. 4-3-3 with Young, Rooney & Walcott.

Sydney!

Jred, Euro96 was the last time we played proper attacking football against the top sides. We keep getting negative managers to manage us. That is where we are going wrong. We have the personnel to attack, we just chose not to.

Sydney!

Sydney
exactly 96 16 years ago we had a midfield of

mcmanaman---platt---ince-----anderton
------------------gazza-----
-----------teddy-------shearer

all off the above were good players fit and at a good age.
this year we had
young --never played well
gerrard--past his best
parker---limited player and not fully fit
milner ----limited
rooney---never looked match fit
welbeck ---good prospect but no shearer.

in 96 we had a class md 3 of platt ince and gazza and a front 2 as good as any in the world at the time.
This year we never, it's ok saying play positive football but we never had the players.

jred

25 Jun 2012 08:59:44
Here we go.. we now have another player to get our teeth into... For the next 3 weeks Young is going to be criticised for not being good enough yet he was in our team over nani and he started most games, he was Englands best player before the Euros now he is our worst because he did what all our top tallent do and that is to fall. He was our left back most of the tournament but it is hodgsons fault not his.

1redarmy

He goes missing ALWAYS cannot argue with that hes a pussy needs to learn to get stuck in/ take his man on

25 Jun 2012 07:45:30
A lot of posts has being on that Ashley Young isn't a good player and not a good buy for United. Pals let's not forget the fact he was an exceptional player for Aston Villa and was regarded as one of the best players in England. Is true he hasn't hit that form for man united, I feel he is having a kind of inferiority complex playing at the highest level of his career because to a club like United, there would be lot of expectations from that player. I feel he has to be given more time and he would definitely show his class. People should also remember some fine displays from him against Arsenal and Tottenham. Red devils 4 live. Chidubest

' Pals let's not forget the fact he was an exceptional player for Aston Villa and was regarded as one of the best players in England'

Nonsense. If this were true why was this his first international tournament?

T0MB0Z

25 Jun 2012 03:51:35
when was the last time rooney had a great game for england
jred
When was the last time Rooney had a great game for Utd?
FredtheRed""""
dear mr jrad and mr fredthe red
ngiak is surprised at the questions
even with the well known fact that ngiak is not the biggest fan of rooney..
the poor guy has really suffered
this Euro revealed that England is the most boring and defensive team in europe. no imagination and defending with 9 men EVEN when they had the ball
(roy managed liverpool once ngiak vaguely remembers)
and rooney happened to be in a united team with the worst midfield in the last 30 years for the last 3 - 4 years
with almost NO support whatsoever for both club and country the last few years..
ngiak feels you guys are a little harsh on him
have you ever player the lone striker with your nearest midfielder 20 yards away and not helping
game after game, year after year?
gan

It all depends on how highly you rate rooney.

i think his one of the best players in the world and should be able to influence games more than he is doing at the moment.
over the past 12 month i dont think his lived up to his own high standards never seen him give the ball away as much.
jred

Jred is right, Rooney hasn't been the same player this season. Yes he has scored goals, but his general play has been average. I hope he improves next season. His touch, ball retention and passing must improve.

Sydney!

24 Jun 2012 23:45:41
Ive been a huge fan of Pirlo for a long time now, particularly when he was at Milan and i'm glad people are recognising the talent that he is. He has been doing that all his career and my doubts that he may not be able to do it in the PL have just been wiped clean!

I don't want him at United seeing as he's 33, and we already have a Pirlo in our squad! Its a good thing for United that Woy didn't call on Scholes, but I still wish for the sake of the country he would give it one more tournament.

Hoppy