Manchester United Banter Archive March 25 2013

 

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25 Mar 2013 22:25:32
Jred, not sure if you have noticed or anyone else for that matter, but this season RvP has been shoved out wide right a few times and I think there is every chance he could play there next season. He played there for years at Arsenal. I know his best position is as an out and out, but could we play with a front three of Welbeck, Lewandowski & RvP and have a midfield of Strootman, Carrick & Rooney/Kagawa? Just a thought.

Sydney!

I've never really noticed rvp being shoved out wide right to be honest.
I very much doubt he will play wide right to accommodate lewandowski to be honest
I also don't think you would get the best out of either kags or Rooney playing in a midfield 3

I think we will play 4_3_3/4_5_1 as well as 4_2_3_1 both formations need 1 out and out striker and I think most of the time it will be rvp, I honestly think if we sign lew he will be second fiddle to rvp just like Hernandez has
Add some one like Rodriguez and strootman to the squad and we should be fine, a cm 3 of Carrick, strootman clevs would do me with pos welbeck, Rvp, rod up top.
As would a cm 2 of Carrick strootman with Rooney kags and rod behind rvp

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Syd

Do you expect Hernandez to be sold this summer then? I feel it would be a shame to get rid of him, and there are definitely departments in the team that I'd hope we'd strengthen before our strikers.

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It happens every time Hernandez is on the pitch with RvP, it happened against Spurs at OT. He isn't played as a right winger, but he plays on the right-side of a three man attack. I think with two good strikers like RvP & Lew, they will have to play together. Lew will not join to be sat on the bench when the big games come. I think he will play alongside RvP and Welbeck will be either player's back-up.

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Syd,

I have seen you say many times now that lew will not join to sit on the bench, but you also said further down he does not have attitude problems. I understand he will not want to be on the bench but nobody does, they have to earn their place and it's a squad game, sometimes he will be on the bench, he can't be guaranteed a first team place.

I am not sure how he can have a good attitude but will not be happy being rotated in the squad?

Not posted for a bit, hope all regulars are doing well and looking forward to this massively important weekend for the club.

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Syd
so you think we are going buy lewandowski and move Rvp out to the right hand side

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Ruudinthemood, I suspect there is plenty of people who feel the way you do, I did say it in a post further down. I think one of Rooney or Hernandez will leave. It would more than likely be Hernandez though.

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I have to say that I have not noticed RVP playing on the right. I have noticed that he gets a bit more freedom on the few occasions he has played alongside Hernandez, and that like most forwards he doesn't spend the entire game directly aligned with the penalty spot, but RVP has played the majority of games, and every important one, as a centre forward.

I suspect that Lewandowski is being looked at as a longterm replacement for when RVP gets too old. But short term I cannot see us shifting our best player from his best position to accommodate him as the first choice striker.

Danny Pughnited

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Utter rubbish RVP played a bit deeper not on the right. He's our main striker and will be next season

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Come on GDS. Wanting to play every game and having attitude problems are 2 completely different things. I don't see that they go hand in hand. RVP doesn't have attitude problems but one of the reasons he didn't sign for City was that there were too many strikers and he might not play as many games.

TK-Red

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Danny, then perhaps that is what it is. When he is given more of a free role he does wonder off to the right an awful lot. He was certainly playing on the right side of the attack in the latter stages of the Spurs game at OT.

Jred, I think he will play alongside or slightly behind Lew. I do not agree with you or Danny about him being a long-term replacement for RvP or his back-up, RvP will be here for many more years. Lew will not want to play second fiddle.

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Syd
I never mentioned him being rvps long term replacement.
If he doesn't want to play second fiddle to Rvp he should maybe take himself and his attitude somewhere else, because Rvp is a better player than lewandowski.

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I agree with Danny
"I cannot see us shifting our best player from his best position to accommodate him as the first choice striker. "

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What attitude? I see them lining up next to each other. Not one playing instead of the other.

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Sticking RVP out wide?

Dropping Rooney into midfield?

Both sound like terrible ideas to me - and all this to accommodate Big Lew, who IMO is not as good a striker as RVP. And then what happens to our wingers in this formation?

Seems like madness and I really hope these changes don't happen. I don't see the need for Big Lew personally but if he comes something major will have to give, not just play our best players out of their favoured positions.

HBadger

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Just to add, I hope Danny is right and he comes in as RVP's long term successor. That's the only way it makes sense to me and it would allow us to give RVP the odd rest in the mean time too. I'd be delighted if we get Lewandowski for this reason but will be gutted if he comes in and we start shifting all our best players just to accommodate him.

HBadger

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I have to agree with Sydney. If we lose Nani then we have two out and out wingers in Young & Valencia. Zaha is a flexible forward (Young is also to an extent). I don't think we will land Rodriguez and I'm unconvinced that we will go for someone else this year.

Hopefully this will get posted:

__________De Gea
Rafael__Garay__Vidic__Evra
___Stroot__Carrick__Kags
____RVP___Lewy___Rooney

Zaha fits into that philosophy, Jones could also play many game in midfield. Rooney and Kagawa would interchange and RVP would drift in and out. If we wanted to be more direct we bring Valencia & Young on. If we are going to only bring in Garay, Strootman, Lewandowski & maybe Begovic then I would think we'd have enough in the budget to use Anderson in a deal for Alex Sandro.

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Gav it's not about dropping RVP out wide. This season has shown us that RVP drops wide by himself. He likes to drop off and get involved. Lewandowski would just mean that RVP has someone to link up with in the final 3rd.

TK-Red

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HBadger, I think it's possible that RvP could be played in a front three attack, but I think it's unlikely. I think they will play alongside one another. Like against RM the manager went with Welbeck and RvP in attack, I think it would be Lew and RvP in attack.

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Hernandez is a great goalscorer but maybe hasn't got the all round game that fergy is looking for. He possible doesn't hold the ball up well enough to suite the style we play.
This is possible why he is far more effective coming off the bench than when starting.
I think most people can see that Rvp could do with a rest but are Hernandez and welbeck good enough to step in to his shoes, possible not one doesn't score enough one doesn't keep possession or hold the ball up enough.
I think lewandowski would be given that role.
Now some will say lew won't sit on the bench, well this is man united and you have to earn the right to play, just ask kags.
If he signs just like any other player he we have to Waite and take his chance to impress, and then give fergy a selection head ache.
But to suggest that he would just walk in to the team and we would change formation or play the likes if rvp out of position to accommodate him is imo ridiculous

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Syd, you keep bringing up the second Madrid game as evidence that Lew will play alongside RVP. In that game SAF employed a very specific tactic so that Welbeck could man-mark Alonso. Not many teams have an Alonso, and Welbeck has mostly played on the wing this year, so this isn't really the best example of how we usually line up. The real argument you are making is that we want to buy Lew to replace Rooney/Kagawa as the player who will play off the main striker.

I have my problems with Rooney's passing but do you honestly think that Lew is suited to the number 10 role? To me he looks like a good finisher, decent at linking up in and around the box, and excellent in the air. But he is not creative enough, and does not have the range of passing to occupy this position. Lew's best position is as a centre forward, RVP's best position is as a centre forward, undoubtedly they would play together against weaker teams like Hernandez has this year. But in big games SAF will need to choose between them, and he will choose RVP 99% of the time.


Danny Pughnited

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Fresh
When we play 4-3-3 it becomes 4-5-1 when the other team gets the ball with the 2 wide men dropping back, now Rooney young welbeck etc Will do this would rvp
After watching rvp this season why do you think fergy would want to move his position.?
Is kags best position in a midfield 3 is that why we bought him?
I'm expecting big things of kags this year as a cam

Syd
In madrid welbeck played out wide with rvp as the main st.
At ot welbeck played more of a cam than a ss tasked with picking up Alonso

We very rarely play with 2 strikers it normally 1 st and a cam in the style of Rooney or kags with midfield duties.

I still haven't seen 1good argument for moving Rvp

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Danny
I have been trying to make the same point all year

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Danny, if you watch RvP he rarely sticks to the penalty spot when he plays. He is all over the attack. I think he could continue to play this way with Lew sticking to the penalty spot. Rooney drifts far too deep when playing behind the main striker, but RvP with a better midfield pairing wouldn't need to. I think we could play Lew as the out and out striker with RvP as a second striker.

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Then where does Kagawa fit in Sydney? On the left?

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Syd
so basically back to the very outdated
4-4-2

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Syd

In the 2nd Real game Rooney was dropped. Do you see him being dropped for most of the season because he doesn't suit a 2 man CM and he's not really a winger so I'm still struggling to see where he and Kagawa fit into this shape you describe?

TK

So we're talking either a 442 or 4411 type formation then? Where does that leave Kagawa and Rooney if the other 2 start up front?

Danny Pugh

Totally agree with you that Lew and RVP are both strikers and both should only play together against the 'lesser' teams. Usually we play with one up top and others in support (Rooney/Kagawa).

Fresh!

That lineup/shape is so different from how SAF plays that I just can't see it. You've got Rooney and RVP in wide positions where they are not at their best and neither would add much defensively.

HBadger

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No jred, a 4-2-3-1 with RvP behind Lew.

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Syd
lol quality pal
so all along you meant Rvp to play behind Lew in a 4, 2, 3, 1 (did you not want Rvp on the the right of a front 3)

Or to play like welbeck did against madrid.
I think you have quite clearly been talking about lew and Rvp as a front 2…

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Exactly jred, I believe they will be the front two. I think there will be occasions where they are in a front three. My main point today was that I believe Lew and RvP will play together as opposed to only one of them playing at any one time.

Why do you try to make things harder than they need to be?

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Don't make this into anything other than what it is.

I believe Lew and RvP will play together, not one playing and one sitting on the bench. That was my only point here. I think they will be lining up together in the same team, not it being a case or RvP or Lew.

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Syd
Lol you've been back tracking all day
Rvp playing wide right is my favourite

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I think people are taking formations far too literally during these discussions. The rigid formation is quickly becoming redundant with teams looking at a more fluid style. The difference between a 442, 4411 and 4231 isn't that great when you actually think about it.

TK-Red

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'HBadger'

Kagawa can very easily play off the left and drift inside and as for Rooney I am working on the basis that he won't be here. If we sign Lewandowski I just don't see a place for him in the starting 11 without compromising the team dynamic.

TK-Red

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Syd
so do you believe lewandowski will walk into the first 11 in the same way kags has?

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Jred, I haven't done any back tracking. I do see occasions when RvP will play on the right of a front three, it's happened this season. My point is I think Lew and RvP will play together, not one or the other.

Kagawa is a tiny lad who is adapting to the physicality of the EPL. Lewandowski will not have the same problem. Obviously.

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25 Mar 2013 22:09:24
Did strootman captain the Netherlands the other night? If so shows the faith the dutch coach has in him at such a young age.
Also, Valencia has had a poor season by his standards so far, but if you can try and catch the highlights from his international match, looked on fire, looked confident.
Nat

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25 Mar 2013 21:21:02
hi anyone watch the brazil v russia game an what is your view on hulk? {Ed004's Note - Hulk had a very good game when he came on I only saw 60 mins on and Hernanes looked decent in midfield very physical and seemed good defensively. However, I thought Neymar was very poor}

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25 Mar 2013 21:17:04
How can we have spent £43M in '09 when we sold Ronaldo? And surely the £57M in '12 was gross, not net? I realise there are accounting issues to consider but I'm not aware we have spent that much on players?

AJH

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AJH, years end June 30th. So the same financial year we sold Ronaldo, we also bought Berbatov. Do you see what I mean?

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Oh I see what you mean, it's +£43m, meaning it was a profit of £43m, not £43m spent.

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Syd
how does the 57 mill in 2011/12 work out

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I am sure you can find that out on the Andersred Blog.

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Without looking i'd assume it's Lindegaard, DDG, Jones, Young. Could be wrong. Fact of matter is the club's accounts do not lie.

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I'm sure the accounts are right but when I looked at the players bought and sold I was surprised at the 50 odd mill net.
Not that bothered to be honest

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25 Mar 2013 20:48:42
I have heard about english teams are doing well in the nextgen series. People always go on on about how good uniteds youth are. why did we not enter the nextgen series? Do u think we would have done well?

JohnTheRedMaroon97 {Ed007's Note - It started as an invitation only tournament John, I have no idea why Utd weren't 'invited' at the beginning, but for the present season's (the second) series Brian McClair said that it didn't fit with what the club are presently doing with their youth players.}

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25 Mar 2013 21:08:23
On THE Lewandiwski debate I must say i'm with syd! on this 1 at aroumd 15mil he is a must buy. I think iif hernandez is to be sold he could go for almost the same amount and lewandowski is a much better player.
i just don't understand why people are against buyimg lewandowski he and rvp could strike fear into any team
vishwesh2002

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I think people are worried that we will put all of our resources into a new keeper, CB & striker and again neglect the midfield & LB position. Lew is a class act and he will tear the EPL a new one. I just think people want the midfield sorted 1st, then other positions can be strengthened.

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Hernandez needs game time an I for one am far more impressed Wit Hernandez than I have being wit lewie don't get wrong he is a good player but no player can grab a goal from nowhere like chicarito I love the lad he loves the club an plays his hart out every time he is on that is. If someone should go its welbeck or Rooney. Welbeck doesn't score as much as he should an Rooney has not earned his wage in a while an the whole contract episode so that's where I stand

CAIN

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Syd
no pal truth is some people just don't rate him quite as highly as you do

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Exactly how highly do I rate him Pal?

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I rate him very high
paddy the irish man

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25 Mar 2013 23:27:18
actually what sydney said is spot on for me and I keep banging on about it. Midfield has to be the priority. Then left back and wingers. Then worry about strikers or keepers or centre backs.

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Whilst I have a different assessment of the player to Sydney, I am all for buying him. Our difference is how I rate him and the money that it will take to get him.

No way he will go for under 20 million and that is also the same valuation I have for Hernandez.

I also don't believe he will get to the same level of a Falcao or Cavani and we should stop rating players higher than what they are just because we are desperate for another world class star given Rooney's demise, CR07 being gone etc etc.

It's understandable how as an avid supporter we are desperate for graet players and sometimes want to believe how a player can be great. I think a lot of this comes from us being spoiled over the last 10 years where at one time or another we genuinely had the world's best in a certain position (Keane, Scholes, Vidic, Ferdinand, Rooney, Cr07, Beckham, Neville) and today we have a few great players and many solid players in our squad but not a great first 11.

We are currently very workmanlike as a team and the football is quite ugly for long stretches of many games.

So in conclusion, Lewandowski is a very good striker but the PL is a different beast to the Budesliga and United are a different set up to Dortmund. We have no Goetze, Rues, Dungodan etc etc and don't play at their pace or technical ability and he will find it much harder.


Shahram

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Shahram
100% agree I think you have hit the nail on the head

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Jred, so you are in total agreement with Shahram about Rooney's demise?

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Syd
No, I just don't think he developed into the world class player many thought he could be

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Shahram, so you think Hernandez & Lew are around the same value?

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Sydney

Yes, Absolutely.

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So you don't 100% agree with Shahram then? There is a difference between a demise and a player not fulfilling their potential.

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So do you not think Hernandez with 3-years on his contract is different from Lewandowski with 1-year left on his contract?

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Syd
Your right I 95 % agree with sharham I think he makes some very good points.

Bit childish though really syd

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Jred, it's just for months you have been hounding me for saying I believe we have seen the best of Rooney, then you agreed with Shahram who clearly stated about Rooney's demise. Just wondered if you were finally seeing what the rest of us are seeing that's all.

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Syd
your opinion is exactly that, just your opinion but you seem to think it is fact.
The Rooney debate for me is far bigger than you seem to think but I'm not going over it again as you seem to be incapable of being wrong or accepting someone else's point of view

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Wasn't it YOU who wouldn't accept my point of view that I thought we have seen the best of Rooney?

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I accepted your opinion pal I just didn't take it as fact.
But like I said it's old news and a bit childish
Guess we will see what happens in the summer

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What does me thinking we have seen the best of Rooney have to do with this summer? You are a strange one mate.

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Syd
You've gone on all season about Rooney leaving and being past it.
Do you still think Lew will be Rooney replacement or have you come round to Hernandez being the most likely.

Not that it matters as I'm sure no matter what happens this summer you will argue your right ;)

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I have said I wouldn't be surprised to see Rooney leave and I still wouldn't be surprised. But it would be difficult to market him. I do not see many clubs he could join. I have been saying I think Lewandowski will be joining this summer for a very long time with you saying it's agent talk or paper talk.

Coming round to the idea now?

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Syd
You have just been repeating the edd
I have said from the start the lewandowski rumour makes no sense unless Hernandez is leaving.
Try to have your own opinion pal

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Jred, I was saying it LONG BEFORE Ed002 was saying Lewandowski will likely be joining United. Months before.

Sydney!

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25 Mar 2013 18:45:10
Not seen much of James Rodriquez. Is he any good? With us buying zaha do you think we will buy another winger?

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I dt think zaha will be bought to be 1st team straight away. james rodriguez signing will mean good bye to 1 or 2 of young valencia and nani. imo nani is most likely to go unfortunately.


TRUMORS

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Has Nani signed a new deal as someone said on here?

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He is a very skillful player with a big Potential. He does go down too easily for my liking but I guess that is function of the league he plays in and where he is from. Physically he needs to get stronger to be as effective as he is in Portugal. The only thing I am a little cautious about is that he can go for long stretches during a game where he is not that involved.

Shahram

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25 Mar 2013 18:05:44
There's a lot of rumours and people saying that we will sign Begovic he a great keeper. But if you look back all them rumours were when De Gea made 1 or 2 mistakes and was linked with Real Madrid and the papers were on about us replacing De Gea with Begovic. Now that he is playing well its all stoped.
Then people were saying he would replace Lindegaard cause he is not happy about playing time. But if Lindegaard does leave I don't see us paying 8-15 Million to buy Begovic as replacement.
What I see us doing is promoting Ben Amos or Sam Johnstone as Backup to De Gea that would mean we would have 8-15 Million to strenghten other areas of the squad.
But that's only my opinion and i'm not Sir Alex!

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If Lindegaard is going to leave then, personally, I would like to see us bring in a goalkeeper who is perhaps coming to the end of his career to help DDG along. I think it would be risky to have DDG backed up by 2 inexperienced keepers in Amos and Johnstone and would like to see someone like Brad Friedel brought in to provide good backup and pass on his experience to De Gea. Obviously Friedel is just one example but you see where I'm going with it.

TK-Red

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25 Mar 2013 17:28:53
im fed up of everyone saying were going to buy him and him and him e. t. c, we will be bying one more player aswell as zaha this summer, it will be RONALDO he's coming home, ferdinand will stay one more season and we have smalling and jones as cover anyway aswell as fabio to come back from loan, we have powell to come into the middle with zaha, fletcher and scholes will retire, anderson, lindergarrd and valencia will be sold, so with the transfer fees from these players and wages from them aswell as fletch and scholes wages we will be able to cover the ronaldo financing, trust me this will happen, welcome home christiano.
BIGAL RED FOREVER

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You are fed up with rumours of other players but expect us to believe Ronaldo is signing for United, you must be on a wind up?

Our CM has been a problem for years but you think we will show the door to Scholes, Fletcher AND Anderson, then sign NO midfielder? Leaving us with Carrick, Cleverly and Giggs for a whole season! (maybe Powell but he may go on loan anyway)

I'm glad you are not the manager!

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So three CM out and none in.

JK92

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With united nothing would surprise me, we haven't bought a real quality cm yet so who knows if SAF will even bother this year? Defensively it wouldn't surprise me if no one came in but if Lindegaard goes we will need a back up to DeGea at least.

Brendan81

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Trust me you are deluded. Why do you think they bought Zaha. They want to buy cheap and develop on low wages. No big money signings this summer as Sir Alex always says he is happy with his squad and there is no value out there

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Kloot, you say no big money signings as SAF "always" says there is no value in the market and happy with his squad, didn't a certain Mr van Persie disprove that last summer?

MEF

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How do you explain RVP then, not young, cheap, or low wages.

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Rvp was bought to ensure city didn't get him as they would have won the league by Xmas. And hopefully he did the trick. If we want to compete with real, barca, Bayern then Big we must buy. But as kloot said, we won't.

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Before you all slate BIGAL we are not SAF and don't know what he wants/thinks. If he has only 2 seasons left then he might be desperate to manager Ronaldo again, who knows?

People say Scholes, Fletcher and Anderson are going so we definitely need replacements but how many games have these 3 actually played/influenced this season? Maybe SAF thinks Carrick, Cleverley, Jones, Giggs, Powell and Kagawa will be good enough for a season for the chance to get Ronaldo again, who knows?

One thing we do know is that no one knows apart from Fergie and some people very close to him and that is it. We can guess and predict but slating people for their thoughts is a bit daft.

Brendan81

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If BIGAL is right would people settle for this team next year?

DeGea
Rafael. Evans. Vidic. Evra
Carrick. Rooney
Kagawa
Zaha. Ronaldo
RVP

Not saying it will or that its my ideal choice but you know SAF likes to surprise everyone.

Brendan81

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Kloot laying a piece of bait yet again. And yet again you all fall for it lol.

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Brendan 81

We would get ripped to pieces by the big european clubs with that sort of a line up.

Personally Rooney is useless as a midfielder and why do you think he was not played in the RM game. He could not cover Alonzo or Khadeira, because he does not have the technical ability, pace or size to play there.

Carrick is 31/32 so if this is the direction the club is going I would be really worried.

I have a firm view that we need 2 proper CM, Look at all the teams that are dominant in Europe and whilst they have good/great strikers, it is their midfields that is what makes them special. Barca, Bayern, Dortmund, RM with Juventus not too far behind.

BTW that is my final 4 for the cL.

Shahram

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Shahram I didn't say it was what I wanted or anything I just said if BIGAL was right would people be happy?

Brendan81

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So what if they want to reply to RFT? If they didn't then he would have very little to do with his day, let's be fair.

TK-Red

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Exactly TK-Red - if posters should not reply to The Kloot then perhaps The Kloot should not be allowed to post in the first place? The whole point of a forum is to discuss and reply surely.

HBadger

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I don't know why everyone gets so wound up by KLOOT, he likes to wind people up and everyone goes mental. Personally I think it is funny and it is good having guys like KLOOT around. He has his views as does everyone else, no one is ever going to agree with everything someone says but i'm sure KLOOT also says things that he knows people will react to just to see what ridiculous reaction he gets. I'm sure he sits there p*ssing himself both writing his posts and reading the reactions he gets, I know I do.

Brendan81

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Just to clarify, I like Kloot's posts and love the reaction they get, quite often from me! :) Didn't want my post to sound anti-Kloot just wanted to make the point that surely people should reply otherwise there's no point in him making the posts in the first place?

On Brendan's point re: Kloot sat there laughing at the reaction, I'm sure you are correct but surely that in itself is no better than replying to his posts - who is the bigger man there? Deep, man! :)

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Ha ha Honeybadger fair point, still makes me laugh tho.

Brendan81

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25 Mar 2013 14:38:55
Online today there are talks of a mass clearout at United: Anderson, Nani, Valencia, Hernandez & Lindgeaard. I agree that they will leave (apart from Valencia). The point they are making though is that they believe United will undertake a restructuring and reevaluation of those who fit around our world class stars like van Persie. Suggesting that we will not buy big names like Gotze this year, instead buying more, well priced quality that aren't big names. This goes a long with the idea that we have signed Zaha (reasonable price), maybe Garay, maybe Lewandowski, maybe Begovic & maybe Strootman. None of them are that high profile yet but they are better than the back up options that we have. If this is the case and we are going for general squad strengthening then I think we can expect a few more than the 3-4 we usually buy.

Having Begovic as someone to rotate with is far stronger than having Lindegaard. Strootman is better than Anderson, Lewandowski better overall than Hernandez, Zaha potentially world class and will probably soon exceed our wide options in terms of consistent performances and also Garay. Garay may not be an upgrade to Ferdinand as Ferdinand is very very good still, but he is on his last legs, so signing a younger replacement for him who is exceptional with the ball and would fit well with Vidic is a sensible move. Those changes would strengthen the squad as a whole. Having a strong, near perfect squad in terms of options means that in future transfer windows we can sign the odd exceptional player here or there and focus on young players to supplement what we have.

It would not surprise me one bit if the biggest name we sign this summer is a Lewandowski or a Strootman. But I do think that the 2014 a marquee signing will be made, maybe Ronaldo if he has one year left on his deal or maybe Gotze. its too far ahead to predict. But to me, that seems to be the plan at the club.

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So Fresh

We go out and buy a back up keeper for 15 million for a guy ho we paid 17 million and probably worth in the 20s today. I guess we must be flushed with throw away money to be having a transfer policy like the one you are alluding to.

When you refer to our world class stars who else beside rvp who is 30 btw are we talking about.

I think the transfer window is lot of smoke and mirrors and media talks bs 90s of the time. They see a scout at a game and we are suddenly looking to but half that team lol.

Shahram

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I'm not sure future transfers are mapped out in this much detail TBH - things change so quickly in football it seems unlikely to spend our whole summer buying players based on who we might buy the following summer.

HBadger

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According to the media reports we are looking at buying the porto cb, LB, winger and forward, which will cost us 80 million lol.

Last year according to reports we were going to buy half the dortmund team. lol

Shahram

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Fresh, the story that you are referring to was written by David Lynch, a Merseyside based journalist who funny enough is a die hard Liverpool fan. He would have got wind of certain players leaving which is common knowledge now so being a Liverpool fan he thought he would use this nugget of info to say we are skint and that is why we are selling the players. You have got to laugh at his tedious anti-United spin.

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I'm in complete disagreement with you HBadger. Clubs at the top will have these long term plans, pick out the ideal players, and play the long game in order to get them. Smaller clubs will have less power to dictate who to buy and when. But the top managers will have very specific shortlists of what players will suit the role they want filling. And they will bide their time in order to get them for the best possible price subject to availability.

I wouldn't be surprised if we see a plan like this come to fruition this summer with regards to midfield. I'll be disappointed if not.

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I'm with you Shahram, it's all great fun but most of the rumours are compete nonsense. Sneijder anyone, or Sanchez?

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AJH

Believe or not I think we are scouting a left back and the kid Sandro is more believable. I think Buttner is not going to work out given the fact that he has gotten 2 starts in the league this year.

The silly season is upon us and we will be somehow associated to every player under the sun.

The only one that I think has some substance to it is Strootman, depending on what the fee will be and his demands.

I also think our big investment this summer will be in a attacking midfielder in the mold of Hazard, Moura as this was clearly what the manager wanted last year and neither worked out. I just can't figure out who it might be :) Would be delighted with Ozil or Goetze.

Shahram

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Nizza

I don't deny we will have a plan in place perhaps I did not explain myself very well - I just don't think we have a specific plan to 'restructure with squad players because we're looking to make a marquee signing the following summer'. I would have thought that every year we identify the positions that need improving, scout the best options then bid for our preferred target. I don't think we operate a system where we look for cheaper players one summer so we can afford a marquee signing the next. In fact, I doubt the phrase 'marquee signing' even comes into SAF's thinking. Just sounds a little Footy Manager to me.

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Lewindawski better than Hernandez? How do you make that one out? Hernandez has scored 16 in 28 this season, I think that's an excellent return. And he's the most natural finisher we've got. Hernandez going nowhere hopefully.
Have you seen lewindawski playing recently, he's always moaning, falling at the slightest touch and I think he's overrated, the players around him make him look a lot better than he is.
Nomidfield

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We will know what budget we have and SAF will have a clear list of targets. I think it works very much like the way I said.

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I think we desperately need to concentrate on midfield, and possibly left back. The wingers have been poor this year but might rediscover form, but in the middle we are very light. Carrick has been great but there is not much else that you could currently call top drawer. Not sure Fletch will come back, Anderson has had long enough and failed to convince. Cleverley is a squad player IMO, Powell has huge potential but is still young and developing, Giggs goes on and on but doesn't have the legs any more and Scholes likewise. I still prefer Jones as a centre half and Kagawa looks great but has yet to settle and dominate a game. It will be interesting t see what happens asmSAF keeps telling us how happy he is with his squad.

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One other point, Rooney is not the answer to our midfield challenge

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Nomidfield, sadly I don't think you have seen much of Lewandowski. More importantly did you see how well Kagawa & Lewandowski played together? Hernandez is probably the best poacher in the world, but Lewandowski is an all-round better player. Check out a bit of Youtube, just to see what Lewandowski has in his locker. Youtube doesn't show you consistency or a player's all-round game, but it will show you what he is capable of.

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25 Mar 2013 09:04:51
why isn't fergie going for radamel falcao or Edison cavani I would rather have one of those two than lewandowski.

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Perhaps because Lewandowski is a few years younger than them, much much cheaper and could be just as good as either in a couple of year's time. Just think if someone had bought Falcao a few year's ago when he wasn't valued at £50m.

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25 Mar 2013 10:39:01
We don't need any of them

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Syd

While I agree that he is a pretty good player right now. There is something that I have observed in him and wanted to know what'd you think about them. His attitude and work-rate are not the best. Would never see him play for team-mates or throwing his body on the line for the team. He has the look of a player who already thinks he is a superstar and couldn't care two hoots when things are not going well. I think some of the hype has got to his head. Again this may be my view. For Poland, I have seen him moan, cringe and act like a luxury player more often than not.

Deeps.

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Deeps, I am not sure where you have got the opinion of him having a bad attitude from or that he lacks work-rate. This is a player who does all of the stuff Welbeck does off the ball, but is a prolific goalscorer. The amount of work he does off the ball is exceptional. I have seen no evidence of him having a poor attitude either.

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Somebody did buy falcoa a couple of years ago athletic played about 36 mill

I think lewandowski is over hyped on this site imo good player but not the level of cavani or falcoa,
As for age he's only a year or so younger than cavani and 2 than falcoa.

Looks decent in the Dortmund team but the way they are set up it must be a dream to be a striker in that team, doesn't look anywhere near the same player for poland

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I never said a couple of year's ago, I clearly said a few year's ago.

Lewandowski isn't at the level of Falcao now, but neither was Falcao at 23, that was my point.

Lewandowski will improve and when the penny drops for him I hope he is already a United player.

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Lewandowski has yet to fully convince me. He looks good for Dortmund when he has top class creators all around him, but for Poland, where he is the main man, he goes missing far too often. Saying that, he is being looked at as back up for RVP so I'm not sure why people are surprised that we aren't looking at the likes of Falcoa or Cavani.

These players are going to go for upwards of 50m, and that isn't the type of money we're going to pay in any circumstance, especially for a player who will be benched for the most important games. We should be asking if Lewandowski is a better player than Hernandez or Welbeck, and in that he regard he is a far better all round player.

Danny Pughnited

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Jred,
You could have made the same argument for Messi: plays in a team with a great set up;doesn't look as good with his country.
BornInToIt

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Lewandowski will be a big mistake, his game is very limited, and as posters have already pointed out, his attitude is not the best.
Anyone who thinks Falcao is not the nswer, then they better start watching thi guy more often, he is absolute class, fantastic touch and he's a beast of a player. Very tricky and extremely strong.
Nomidfield

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Danny, some good points, but I disagree that he will be back-up to RvP. He will do most of the running like Welbeck does when he is in the team, so RvP will not need to. I think Lewandowski will play with RvP, not instead of.

BornInToIt, Messi has a great array of talent around him in the Argentinian team too. Lewandowski doesn't have that luxury with Poland. I would describe Lewandowski as a quicker and more potent Dzeko, with Welbeck's off the ball attributes. Perhaps a little Ibrahimovic too.

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25 Mar 2013 13:14:06
lewandowski is a execptional player no two ways about it he is 23 and is already a top striker I for 1would want him at UTD
btw I think he wil be as good as falcao in a couple of years time

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25 Mar 2013 13:25:41
so lewandowski might become this top class striker in a couple of years time. He might not as well. He hasn't impressed me in over a dozen games. Hernandez or welbeck or any of the kids in the academy could become top class strikers and their already at the club. We're going to end up spending the summer chasing a striker we don't need who's not much better than what we have, and end up neglecting midfield again.

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Nomidfield

Nobody thinks Falcao is rubbish or not what we need but we're not going to go and splash £50m+ plus top wages on a striker when we already have RVP/Rooney are we?

What is so hard to understand? When did United last splash £50m odd on one of the world's best players?

HBadger

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Bornintoit
Have a look how many individual goals messi scores he doesn't need people to create chances he will score goals in any team.
Also after a slow start for Argentina he has now scored 13 goals in his last 12 starts
I believe the same goes for falcoa he would score goals in any team, I'm not sure the same can be said of lewandowski imo
he's a good player and if we sign him great but I don't think rate him as high as others on the site that's all.

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Vish, he is actually 24, but he did burst onto the scene last season when he was 23. I think he is a good striker, not at the level of Falcao, but has time to be at the right club. At £15m give or take a shilling, he is a must and he is certainly better value for money than Falcao is.

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Syd
rvp is a good second striker but is world class as an out and out striker why would fergy want to drop him deeper

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Some people on here rreally ubderrate Lewandowski.
Imo, ina couple of years time, he will be the best sttiker in the world.

People here keep talking about how Falcao and Cavani are much better than Lewandowski. They are better but not by much. He is a better creator than both, has more assists to his name than both players combined.

Lewandowski is extremly fast, he's also a very hard worker and covers a lot of ground. He is a beast in the air and is very strong physically. Hence why there is probably not a striker in world football who's better at holding up the ball.
He has the pace and workrate of Welbeck, the movementand finishing of Hernandez, and the class and dribbling of RVP.

The guy is a bonified world class striker, and is only going to get better. I would even take him over Rooney.

Mick

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Jred, I see no reason why they won't line-up next to each other. If you look at the RM games and replace Welbeck with Lewandowski, it all fits. RvP and Lewandowski would make a great partnership, stick Rooney (if still here) or Kagawa just behind them and the attack would have everything.

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Mick

Those are some very complimentary and lofty comments. Jovetic is a better striker than lewandowski and we will get to see him in action tomm.

Cavani is the best of the lot with Falcao a close second.

Syd

Falcao was 23 when ATM mortgaged their house to buy him for 40 million and he is a totally different player and a clinical finisher and lewandowski does not have his finishing. Lewandowski will not go for 15 and more like 20 to 25 million.


Shahram

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Shahram, if you are going to join in with the discussions then at least get your facts right. Falcao was 25 years and 6 months old when AM signed him. Lewandowski will sell for under £20m.

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Sydney

LOL, If you plan on googling everything you sure have a lot of time on your hand. We were looking at falcao when he was 24 along a host of other clubs and Fergie even back then considered him one of the finest strikers around, please google that too.

I know he is 26 now and been at athletico for 2 years, don't exactly have time to check football players exact month of birth and Zodiac signs.

I get it you like this guy but you are making him out to be something he is not. I think he is good striker and that is it and nowhere in the cavani, falcao league. Aguero any day of the week for me and benzema any day of the week for me.

He will go for over 20 million that I am willing to bet you name the stakes :)

Shahram

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Syd
If you look at the season as a whole we very rarely play with 2 up top, it leaves you to short in the middle

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Syd
also in madrid welbeck played out wide and at home he played as a second striker to pick up alonso.

Very few of the top teams play with to up top if you had Rvp and lew up top with either kags or Rooney behind them we would be very light in midfield.

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If we have Lew & RVP up front with Rooney/Kagawa behind we would be way overloaded up front IMO. That would leave us with nonatural width either and I'm not sure I can see SAF going in that direction.

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Jred it only leaves you short in midfield if you have a weak midfield pairing. Obviously, at the moment, we don't have the strongest but with the right signings, we will be able to play 2 up top and a midfield 2 for the majority of games. It may only be the big games where we might need an extra man in midfield.

TK-Red

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I'm with shahram on this one, we're not talking whether united will buy or not, we're talking about who is the better striker. Falcao and cavani are bin a different league to lewandawski. He is limited in his style and will never possess the trickery of falcao and cavani.
Only time will tell.
Nomidfield

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Well Shahram I rate Lewa very highly. Few strikers are better than him atm, and all of them are older. Rvp, Suarez, Falcao, Cavani and Ibrahimovic are the top 5 strikers in the world, and Lewa comes 6th. I actually think he is as good as Aguero and even a better number 9. He has the pace to drift wide and beat fullbacks, he has great finishing, he is a beast in the air and is very strong so will probably not get bullied around. He is also probably the best striker at hold-up play and even if he is a bit selfish, he is a top notch creator as his assists show. On the ball he is extremly comfortable and yoh see him dribbling past defenders often.

As for his workrate, the guy covers every single inch of grass. He is a bit like Welbeck in thaf department. He also just turned 24 and is quite youngand he has been steadily improving for the past 3 seasons and is every bit worldclass. In 2 seasons I see him becoming one of the best strikers in the world, better than Falcao and as good as Cavani imo.

ASfor his attitude, I heard he's had some problems but I wouldn't look too much into it. His goods outnumber his bad stuff and if SAF convinces him to stay at Dortmund and run down his contract, we'd get him for free in a year's time.

Mick

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Jred, good points, but maybe it's because we do not have the right personnel to play two up top. Against RM Welbeck was more central than anything. He caused havoc for the RM defenders and Lewandowski is very similar in that respect. The only difference is he can score several goals.

Nomidfield, Falcao & Cavani are better strikers than Lewandowski at this time. No question about that, but Lewandowski offers much more off of the ball than them pair do. SAF likes a workhorse and Lewandowski like Welbeck is just that, but he is a prolific goalscorer too.

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Shahram, Falcao is 27, he was playing for River Plate at 23. He moved to Porto at 23. If you are going to state facts then perhaps a little more research on your part wouldn't go a miss.

This summer Lewandowski has one year on his Dortmund contract. It seems he has his heart set on United and no one else just like Kagawa who went for £14m. He will sell for around £14m, £18m tops.

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Tk
With Lew and Rvp as a front 2 and kags behind as syd suggest that leaves us with only 3 in midfield so what midfield pairing do you mean.

As for a strong midfield pairing I don't see us going back to a flat 4_4_2 to be honest.
4_5_1, 4_3_3 or 4_2_3_1 Will be the formation for the majority of games, all then formations have 1 central striker who I believe will be rvp on most occasions, so if we sign lew I think he will have to get used to playing second fiddle to rvp, the same way as Hernandez has

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Trickery of Falcao? The guy is a fantastic and powerful striker but full of trickery he is not.

TK-Red

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Jred, not sure if you have noticed or anyone else for that matter, but this season RvP has been shoved out wide right a few times and I think there is every chance he could play there next season. He played there for years at Arsenal. I know his best position is as an out and out, but could we play with a front three of Welbeck, Lewandowski & RvP and have a midfield of Strootman, Carrick & Rooney/Kagawa? Just a thought.

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Jred I'm not talking about having Kagawa behind the 2 strikers exactly. We could very easily use him on the left where he can drift inside and, for example, Nani on the right then that would leave the midfield 2 to be decided. If we then had a strong midfield 2, whomever they may be as let's face it we all have our preferences, we could very easily play 2 up front. So, for arguments sake, say we had Kagawa, Strootman, Modric and Nani in midfield then I see no reason that RVP and Lewandowski couldn't play upfront together. With that combination of players we could play 442, 433, and 4231 with relative ease (RVP being the obvious one to drop deeper behind Lewandowski).

Now it doesn't have to be that combination of players but my point is that with the right signings, we could very easily see RVP and Lewandowski play together.

TK-Red

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Tk
Read back through the post I disagreed with your comment that we. could play play 2 up top with 2 in midfield for the majority of games. as I don't think we will play that way I don't think we have played 4-4-2 for the majority of games fir many years, tactics have moved on.
Imo for the majority of games we will play 1 out and out striker as I have explained above and I think that the best man for the job is rvp.

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TK, if we sign Lew then IMO he will be lining up next to RvP. RvP has been drifting out to the right and sitting in the hole while Rooney has drifted into midfield all season. There is no reason why RvP and Lew couldn't play alongside each other or with Lew slightly ahead in a 4-4-1-1.

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Sydney

LOL Here you go again, They are about 2 years apart in age and very different players.

On one hnad you state that he is going to be the one of the best in the world but then come this summer one will go for near 45-50 mill and according to you one will will go for 15 mill.

I find that extremely odd that all the scouts and clubs out there can get it so wrong.


Shahram

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Mick

I guess we have a different view on the guy. I hope we sign him and hope you are right.

For me not in the Aguero league but a good solid striker and miles better than Welbeck but totally different to Hernandez.

Shahram

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Shahram, where did I say Lew is one of the best in the world? Telling porkies again are we?

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Syd
Should maybe read sharham post agin

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Jred I can see you disagreed and put your argument across as to why, as did I do why would I need to read the post again? You do get how an exchange of opinions works, yes?

Syd! I agree completely. In RVP we have someone who is such an intelligent football that he could play with any strike partner and we have seen this season that he likes to drop off, to the left, right AND centre and get involved in build up play. Arsensl relied on RVP for his goals but to us he has been much more than that. For a few years the team has revolved around Rooney with Wayne being given a free role and if we sign Lewandowski then I see them playing in the same side and RVP being given the same freedom as Rooney, only difference being that RVP won't have to track back defensively quite do much as we will I think we all agree we will sign a midfielder who is much more suitable for the job when needed e. g. Strootman.

TK-Red

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Shahram, I see Aguero, Falcao & Cavani as £40m players simply because they are the complete striker. No doubt they will sell for slightly more. I see Hernandez as a £20m player. I see Lewandowski as a £25m player. But you have to take into consideration Lew's contract is almost up. It's estimated a player will usually lose between a 3rd and half of their value when they are in their final year of contract. £14m-£18m seems about right to me. I disagree with you and Jred and would be amazed if he sold for £20m-£25m with one year left on his contract.

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Syd

I am pretty sure you wrote 15 million today and compared him to Falcao and implied he could be 50 million in a few years.

Get off the fence and have a firm view and stop back peddling. You have made it abundantly clear over the last 12 months how highly you rate him, I just don't agree with your rating but agree he is good striker and would like to see us sign him.

Same argument I made in a previous post we are starving for a superstar and overrate our targets as fans. Powel the next Scholes, Smalling the best Cb in the world in a couple of years, Zaha could be the next Ronaldo blah blah blah, all non sense if you ask me.

Falco went for 40 million as a 24 year old in a time where the world was dying and football economics was in a dire state. Lewandowski is 23/24 and if he goes for 15 as you state in a much better economic climate, should be enough evidence what clubs and their scouts think of him and his potential.

Shahram

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Shahram, Lewandowski is not at his peak like Falcao and has 1 year left on his contract so of course he is going to be cheaper. Its a fact that you have to pay through the nose for proven world class where as Lewandowski isn't yet at that world class level so is bound to be less expensive, although in 2 years he could very possibly be world class and we wouldve gotten ourselves a bargain. Add that to the fact that Falcao's price tag will increase when you look at the clubs willing to buy him.

TK-Red

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TK, precisely my thinking. RvP is always all over the place anyway, he could easily do Rooney's job whilst Lew plays where he is playing now. Could see Rooney playing in midfield, or left if he isn't sold.

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Syd
Where did I say he would sell for 25 mill
Tk
Fair point, I didn't put myself across very well to be honest

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The question still remains why would you want to move Rvp from his best position.
You can make an argument for rvp and lew as a front 2 but you could do the same for rvp/Rooney, Rvp kags or kags Rooney.
The fact remains we don't play with a front 2 that often and Rvp plays is best football for United and arsenal as the out and out striker why move him?

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Jred, further down the page you said you 100% agree with Shahram and Shahram said Lew will sell for between £20m-£25m. Therefore if you 100% agree with Shahram, then you too believe he will sell for that price.

Onto RvP, I think people should watch RvP. He doesn't sit on the penalty spot for 90 minutes, he is here, there and everywhere. There is no reason why he cannot continue to be here, there and everywhere whilst Lew sits on the penalty spot.

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Syd
all good strikers play across the line, but you need to look at the bigger picture if rvp play up front with Lew it leaves us light in the middle
Football has moved on we don't play with a flat 4 in the middle any more.

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Moved on from a 4-2-3-1? Why can't this be the line-up?

____Midfielder___Midfielder
Winger___Van Persie___Winger
________Lewandowski

RvP pretty much plays there anyway. That would be a strong attack.

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Syd
Rvp doesn't really play there does he he plays as the striker.
The player who plays behind the striker is more a acm like kags or Rooney who also has midfield duties this isn't really rvp game
You have gone on all day about playing Lew alongside Rvp but if you want to that leaves you short in other parts of the pitch.

Why do you think we bought kags?
After watching rvp over the last couple of years why would you want to change his position?

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I am not talking about playing RvP as deep as Rooney plays. Rooney plays far too deep as the 2nd striker, almost as a midfielder at times and that is down to us having a poor midfield. If you watch RvP he is pretty much all over the place in attack anyway and with a better midfield behind him he wouldn't need to drift so deep. There is no reason why Lew cannot play ahead of RvP as the out and out striker and RvP play the Berbatov role just behind Lew.

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Syd
I honestly think that your blinded by your infatuation with lewandowski that you would come up with any reason to play him ( even playing Rvp wide right )

I don't think for one minute that you would suggest some of the things you have today on football or tactical merits.
I have no doubt that Rvp and lew could play together but whether that would be our best starting 11 is a different story, Danny and badger have raised some good points imo
Where as your whole argument seems to be " I think lewandowski we start"

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Grow up jred, you are talking like I said he would be playing right wing. Do you know the difference between playing on the right of a front three or playing as a right winger? Clearly not. Many strikers play in a front three. RvP played there against Spurs for a start.

I think Lewandowski will start alongside RvP more often than not if he signs. You disagree due to your infatuation with Rooney. let's agree to disagree.

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TK, Sydney

Off Course I realize he would be going into the last year of his contract and hence his transfer value is discounted.

So was RVP as a 29 yr old and look at what we paid for him.

This is starting to turn into a debate for the sake of debating. In the current climate come this summer and given how many major teams are looking for a good striker I believe he will go for over 20 million specially when you factor how young he is, because you are guaranteed to get 5 years from him and if it works out as we all hope he might be worth more than we paid for him even at the end of a 5 year contract.

Here is all the teams looking for a quality striker;

Bayern Munich
Juventus
Inter
Athletico (assuming falcao goes)
Chelsea
City ( assuming dzeko or tevez go)
Real ( assuming higuain or benzema leave)
Arsenal
Spurs
Fiorentina (assuming jovetic goes)
Napoli (assuming cavani goes)
PSG


When you look at the clubs who are in the market, they are all clubs with funds at their disposal and the summer might turn out into a bidding war for quality strikers and there are not a lot of them around.

Finally I hope we get him for 15, the cheaper the merrier but the market and the numbers being quoted for players tell a different story.


Shahram

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Shahram, Lewandowski has interested in one way or another Bayern Munich, Juventus, Chelsea, Inter, Galatasaray, Liverpool, City, Real Madrid, Arsenal & Spurs to name a few. All of them have in one way or another contacted Lew's camp and all have come away empty handed so to speak. My guess is they have all been told in some uncertain terms that he is set to join United.

So when you consider he has his heart set on one club (MU) and he is in his final year of contract, it leaves very little wiggle room for Dortmund who have already said they will sell him this summer. I would say it's unlikely he will sell for over £20m.

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Syd
Lol what has this to do with Rooney your obsessed with him
You Rd aware that the dourtman president has said this week that he hopes Lee stays.

What's your inside source that all them teams have tried to sign him.

Sharham Tk deeps badger have all made some good points yours has been " I think Lewandowski will start "

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25 Mar 2013 00:33:25
u19s 0 v 0 C. A H. T. great peno save by gollini on the stroke off half time, utd had the better of play through-out the first half but couldn't finish any of their chances off

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