Manchester United Banter Archive November 25 2018

 

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25 Nov 2018 19:23:37
Our ladies won 8-0 today against Millwall lads, been a great season to be a united fan.

Believable7 Unbelievable1

26 Nov 2018 08:57:46
At least one united team is making me proud to be a fan.

Once Xmas is out of the way definitely going to try and get to one of their games.

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25 Nov 2018 19:08:52
Don't know what to believe now, Jose says his tactics yesterday were to press and be high tempo, the players stopped after 10mins, are they unable (unfit), ignoring Jose or is he telling porkies?

Believable1 Unbelievable0

25 Nov 2018 19:27:44
You can't deploy a high press with Lukaku, Pogba, Mata, Martial and Matic some lack the desire and most lack the mobility.

If we started Sanchez, Herrera and Fred in place of Lukaku, Matic and Mata then the team has the mobility, energy and perhaps more importantly the appetite to press higher and work harder.

A narrow 4-4-2 or 4-2-2-2 of Fred, Herrera, Lingard, Pogba, Martial and Sanchez would have much more energy, intensity, movement and mobility. Mourinho has the players if he wants to play this type of football. He doesn't.

Mourinho talks a good game but in reality we all know he prefers to deploy a low block, drop deep and get bodies behind the ball he's fooling nobody and his team selection gives him away, we've been complaining about the lack of energy and intensity in our team from day 1. If you want more energy, intensity and pressing you don't introduce Fellaini when Fred is on the bench and keep Matic on the pitch, believe in what you see with your own eyes not the nonsense that comes from his mouth.

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25 Nov 2018 19:42:54
I must admit, Stevie Wonder could see that those players couldn’t play any form of press. That isn’t the Mourinho way and I’d consider his comments bulls£it.

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25 Nov 2018 19:49:50
Jose was crying when he couldn't sign a few more players in the summer. Yet whether it was him or the board who signed Fred or both, they did a bad job with that signing. an average player who didn't even get off the bench yesterday, some scouts we have, have we any one around the board or management who can judge a good player.
I'd play someone from the under 23s
A rushed signing, and we could have bought perisic last year for the right money but no we can't seem to buy a good player or a player that fits.

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25 Nov 2018 20:38:12
Is Fred an average player? I really haven't seen enough of him but he comes with a good rep a hefty price and the ed has said there where a number of clubs after him, city included .

Pogba has been average at United so has Sanchez, are they average players.

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25 Nov 2018 21:53:55
They look average under Jose, where was Fred yesterday on the bench and he stayed there.
Or does the manager know how to use them, he wants 11 defensive players.
And I haven't seen anything from Fred yet to say he should be at one of the biggest clubs in world football.

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25 Nov 2018 22:19:37
Leahy he is getting in the Brazil squad.
Has he really been given a chance at United.
Is he average, underperforming or just not been given anything near a chance at United.

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25 Nov 2018 22:50:42
Jred that's the big question, why isn't he getting a chance, is he showing anything in the training ground, is it another waste of millions, just like Sanchez on the big money, Di Maria. The list could go on, is Jose holding him back,
Who is making the big decisions on these players, it's hard now to find players who want to play football full stop. its all about money, agents, sponsor's.
Where do you find a Keane, a vidic, a van nestelroy,
Should there be a clause now in players big contracts if they aren't doing the business can a club let them go after 1 year.

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25 Nov 2018 22:58:16
Leahy
I don't know I just asked is he really an average player?
Is Sanchez and pogba?

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25 Nov 2018 23:10:37
Do they look average at united,?
None of the 3 look top class to me.
And as I said the big question is why, is it the manager?

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26 Nov 2018 08:19:59
Fred should be no where near our starting 11.

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mbd              

26 Nov 2018 08:33:31
I think Fred is Pogba's replacement.

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26 Nov 2018 09:03:07
Leahy haven't seen enough of Fred.
Seen enough of pogba and Sanchez to know they are not average despite there performances for United.

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26 Nov 2018 09:42:26
Either Jose isn't telling the truth and he is trying to cover himself and make sure his negative tactics aren't blamed again. Or the players have no interest in doing what Jose asks them to do.

Either way it doesn't look good for the manager.

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26 Nov 2018 15:30:08
DLIB, that's one of the best posts I've seen on here in a good while.

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26 Nov 2018 19:14:44
I think sanchez is past his best and Pogba is a moron who doesn't have th3 personality to be successful in the premier league.

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26 Nov 2018 21:05:54
Singh
If he knew you pogba may well think the same.

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25 Nov 2018 18:42:52
One thing seems to be overlooked in all the hullabaloo about the first team. The u23s and younger teams do seem to be playing good football and in the Utd spirit. Surely Jose has a say in how the younger squads train and play and if so then why are they performing well and our first team not?

Believable0 Unbelievable8

25 Nov 2018 19:11:37
No he doesn't and that might be why they are doing well. Jose will not tell coaches how their teams should play. He has to let them teach mould and educate them playing in a manner which will do that best and get the most out of those players.

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25 Nov 2018 20:36:27
Sorry but Jose almost certainly will have an input to how the clubs structure their teams and how they play. I guess he deserves no credit at all for anything because he just needs sacking.

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25 Nov 2018 20:51:34
Shappy, how do you know what Mourinho has a say in?
Making stuff up again while portraying the impression that you have the first clue what goes on at the club.

There is too much of this going on now, and it is bringing the standards down on this site massively (I mean that generally, not Shappy in particularly)

This has been the best footy site around for many years now, but is going down hill fast because people's personal dislike of one person, Mr Mourinho. Everyone has there own opinions, as they. But it seems like the ones with the strongest dislike for Mourinho have to keep on and on until everyone else 'falls into line' and agrees with their opinions and views.

Stop banging on about the same old stuff, you can't make everyone else agree. And you certainly won't change opinions by spouting the same, made up stuff all the time. We can all see what's going on in terms of performances on the field, but I suspect there is more to it than just one man. And none of us know what goes on behind the scenes, despite some pretending they do.

Let's get back to posting quality on here, instead of quantity.

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{Ed025's Note - i know what your saying betty and some of that is indeed valid, but football is subjective and different people will always have differing views on players, managers and every other aspect of the game, it does not make you less of a supporter if you dont like the manager as much as it does not make you an authority on the game if you do, there is a negativity surrounding the club at the moment but for me its not down to the supporters alone, its the manager, CEO, and most importantly the players who have to be held to account for this mate, but thats just my view of course..

25 Nov 2018 20:55:17
Sorry, I should have added that I was referring to the posters and certainly not the eds in any way shape or form. It is a reflection on quality of posts, not the site, which is top notch.

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25 Nov 2018 21:24:17
Betty
Really the site has gone down hill because of people's opinions of Jose?

Did you see the very personal insults of Shaw or martial last season?
How about the 2 year of abusive post of Rooney, the stick lvg got or the abuse moyes got before a ball was even kicked .
The constant slagging off of smalling young fellaini.

You seem ok with all of that I fact was part of it .

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25 Nov 2018 21:28:27
What are you on about Red Man? Do you think Jose or any manager of an EPL side will sit down with the managers and coaches of the under 13's and tell them what formation and tactics they should be using?

Your deluded if you think he has the time to sit down with them at all levels. The closest he might come is he might say he wants them to be understand certain tactics. However, if you have a half decent youth set up you will be preparing your youngsters to be able to understand and play all manner of tactics.

Plus seeing as Mourinho never stays anywhere more than 3 years what would be the point of him speaking to anyone below under 23 or maybe under 18 level.

I expect he tells Casey Stoney how the Women's team should be playing as well. Maybe we should credit Mourinho with the Women's team 8-0 result today rather than question the 0-0 at home to Palace from yesterday for which Mourinho can take no blame as its all the fault of the Glazers, the board or Ed Woodward or whoever else you want to blame for Mourinho being unable to get the talented and expensive squad he has hand a hand in assembling to play well and get results.

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25 Nov 2018 21:33:09
Does any one have any idea (Betty redmam) how much of a say Woodward or the glazers have on the football side of the business .
Because they seem to get a lot of stick and that seems to be ok.

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25 Nov 2018 21:39:54
Ed, I totally agree that disliking the manager doesn't make you less of a supporter. I don't like him myself actually. If you remember I actually said I liked Martinez due to his style of play.
I respect that people have different views, but there are those that obviously don't and seem to be trying to change others opinions by constantly posting the same things over and over again - a lot of which is complete fiction portrayed as facts.

The fans are bound to be divided over who is at fault, and I think there is obviously more than 1 party at fault. Mourinho won't be around for long, I am sure. But I am also not expecting things to turn around as soon as he goes. I still see Mourinhos unpopularity as get out of jail free card for several players though.
Again, just my opinion. Not fact :)

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{Ed025's Note - yo do speak a lot of sense betty, i know it can grind you down when all we hear is negativity mate but there is still hope there and a lot of very good players, getting the best out of them and playing as a team seems to be a bit of a problem at the moment though and i think thats why the natives are so restless, a few good results on the bounce could well change all that..

25 Nov 2018 21:50:56
Shappy

If I was Manager I would want to set a style for the teams so that when youth step up they are playing in the same style as they have been doing. We know that the youth step up to train with the first team, why do you think it is such a big leap that the manager of the club has a say in uniting the tactics from top to bottom. In fact I would question his leadership if he didn’t.

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25 Nov 2018 21:53:51
Jred

I read that when Pogba’s transferred was considered someone considered the social media clicks side as a part of the decision. Who considered that do you think, Mourinho or some other member of the club?

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25 Nov 2018 21:56:30
As usual Jred, misrepresentating what I said. You run with the fixes and hunt with the hounds. Post all the questions and never have any answers.

I have no issue with people's opinions of Mourinho. But let's stick to the facts instead of people making stuff up, that's all.

As for being 'part of it', I thought Rooney was past his best. I don't think Smalling is good enough. Never had a go at Fellaini. I like Martial a lot and think he will be a top player, but needs to apply himself better and be more consistent. Would like him to stay.
Will happily admit I have been critical of Shaw's attitude and application, as have many including ex coaches and the player himself.

I was also accused of being a Moyes and LvG lover because I stuck up for them when players were underperforming.
Make of that what you want - but get your facts right first.

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25 Nov 2018 22:23:44
Red man, if you were manager I would expect you would have the team playing some sort of attacking football. I would expect you to hold the club with a special kind of regard, and not take pot shots at it every time you failed.

But then your a fan of the club and your love for it means you will treat the club and it's traditions in a respectful way. Unlike a certain manager.

Don't assume the way you would run the club is the same way Jose would. I have been told by someone connected with Chelsea that Jose never took any interest in the youth set up unless he had an injury crisis. Never spoke about how they should play or what he wanted the kids to be learning.

So unless he has changed his methods since then I doubt he has any impact with the youth set up at all.

He expects his clubs to buy him the players he wants rather than him try and produce them. It's one of the reasons so few youngsters break through with him.

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25 Nov 2018 22:25:28
Betty
My facts are right pal your recurring people for the same things you have done.
Honest question who are you to say what fact are right?
like you have said above you thought Rooney was past it.
Well reading the site many think Jose is past it .
You don't think smalling is good enough well people don't think Jose is .
You question Shaw do you have the facts?
But you seem to think it's ok for you to have an opinion and not others.

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25 Nov 2018 22:31:20
Redman
Of course the social media side was a consideration . We are a billion pound company buying a £100,000,000 product and committing to a further £90,000,000 in wages .

Would you not consider all aspects before a near £200,000,000 investment .

So shappy says the manager has no sat in the youth teams? Does he know that, well betty and Redman seem the know he does?

Maybe we are all as bad as each other.

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25 Nov 2018 16:34:15
Thing that stands out this season is that our form drops after international breaks. This could simply be the result of tired players, but it seems more like frustration at coming back to the club set up.

Take Rashford and Lingard, for example, they're playing in an attacking national side in important roles, and do well. Then, they're back here, with 10 men behind the ball, and they're crap. In contrast, Spurs's English player carry their international form into the next game, and in Ali's case step up to try to win their place back. For me, it's a clear case of our player's preferring playing in the international setups, and that's down to Jose, particularly with his unnecessary comments this week.

I doubt we will finish top four this season, so Jose is done. The question is do we rush into an appointment mid-term, put someone temporary in place, or keep Jose until May to give us more time to bring in the right replacement?

Believable7 Unbelievable2

25 Nov 2018 17:39:38
Get rid asap, we need to just right this season off and allow someone new to get a feel of what he needs i the summer, rather than continuing this circus of employing someone to spend a year dealing with the failings of the previous manger. Maybe if we get rid of Jose we maybe able to convince our better want away players from leaving and fingers crossed stop the club giving players like young valencia jones and smalling new contracts.

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25 Nov 2018 17:42:05
All depends on the appointment of a dof.
If one is put in place soon then will jose work them? Will he want to work with who ever it is and will the new dof want Jose.
I was all for Jose to sort it out but after yesterday I don't see how he can turn things around without selling a lot and bringing in alot.
I think he will see out the season then will be on his way hopefully by then the people who need to will have a plan in place and we can start to carry that out.

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25 Nov 2018 17:44:28
I’d sack him let carrick have till end of season give players a lift bring some confidence back anything is better than this .

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25 Nov 2018 18:05:11
A DOF is designed to be an intermediary between the manager and owners, they do nothing to help the relationship between Jose and the players. A DOF is essential for long term transfer planning, but the more immediate issue is the players aren’t performing for Jose, and we’re slipping further and further away from competing for trophies.

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25 Nov 2018 18:44:14
Its a tough one. My heart says sack him asap. But my head isn't so sure.

On one hand it clearly isn't going to get better with Jose, he is on the downward trajectory with our club like he seems to get into at every club in his third season. So it seems like a case of when not if to sack Jose.

If we sack him now, what happens next? Well we either appoint a permanent manager or a temporary manager until the end of the season. The problem here is the club are actively looking for a DoF, and it makes more sense if the next permanent appointment is made by the DoF, who will have to work closely with the new manager. So maybe appointing a temporary manager is best. Then you have to decide does that come from in house or outside? In house knows the players and the situation so maybe best placed to solve those issues (although they could also be part of the problem) . However, what happens when the next permanent appointment is made is the temporary manager happy to go back to his old role, or even a different role within the club. We saw how Giggs wasn't happy to stay after Mourinho's appointment. We could lose an excellent coach or potential future manager in McKenna or Carrick if they are given temporary charge then asked to step back into old roles or similar lesser roles.

So there are serious concerns with who you replace Jose with both short term and long term, and that doesn't even take into consideration about who is making these appointments and their less than stella past record of managerial appointments.

So do we stick with Jose and give us some time to find a DoF, then at the end of the season let him go and let the new DoF make his appointment. I would expect that there are clauses in any severance pay tied in to UCL qualification, so the club could save some money if we finish 5th or lower when removing the manager. We have seen with the last two sackings that failure to get UCL qualification was the key moment in deciding their fate, or at least so it seemed. This may seem like the better plan.

However, we may lose some key players if they aren't happy with Jose and the club stick with him until the end of the season. Also is not qualifying for the UCL a good plan? Also how long will it take to appoint a DoF, if an appointment is forth coming then it could be months. Or even into next season before we fill the role. Can we wait off that long? Also would a new DoF be happy with having to recruit a new manager as their first task in taking the role. Surely they will want to spend some time adjust to the club and understanding the dynamics and the people they will have to work with. Give them a chance of hiring a man who they can work with and who fits in with the club and what the club needs.

Which might mean it could be better to severe ties with Jose sooner and get in someone on a temporary basis. Giving us the best chance of UCL qualification, giving the club breathing space to hire the right DoF, and giving that DoF a chance to understand the club before they make a permanent appointment.

So the decision probably should be do we go with a McKenna/ Carrick combo or do we bring someone in from outside the club? Either option there is a risk that Carrick/ McKenna could feel slighted and eventually leave.

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25 Nov 2018 19:01:45
Carrick and McKenna are part of why we are playing so poorly? Why promote them?

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25 Nov 2018 20:48:05
Shappy

We need stability until there is DOF

However, if we make a change, we should offer Wenger a chance until the end of the season. Sorry if that isn’t popular but we must have time to plan.

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25 Nov 2018 21:08:15
To plan for what? His 35 consecutive season without a title?

Wenger is another spent force. You’d think after van Gaal, and now Jose, we’d stop trying to resuscitate yesterday’s men.

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25 Nov 2018 21:28:16
So if we just sign a DOF everythi g will be ok?

People said once over all we needed was a Cm bought 3
We needed a cb, bought 2
We needed a creative player bought 2 .
But if we just get a DOF he will fix everything and 100% do a good job.

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{Ed025's Note - i dont think a DOF would be an option at this stage jred, it has to be 2 people who can work together as a team and i dont see jose taking kindly to someone telling him who and when he can buy as hes just not that type of guy, he likes full control thats just the way he works, maybe january will tell us where the club is heading mate..

25 Nov 2018 21:33:55
What about our current situation screams stability to you? We have a fan base divided, a squad of players where half want to leave, and general discord running throughout the club. The media is having a field day taking daily shots at us. We appear to be on a clear downward trajectory. Just to put it into perspective we are having a worst season than Moyes had.

I wouldn't be against Wenger on a short term deal. He knows the league, plays good football and wouldn't be the worst short term solution.

Plus it would be a real poke in the eye for Mourinho. lol.

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25 Nov 2018 22:19:27
People seem to want to compare Moyes season to this one, Get real, We were the previous season champions and I remember some of those now moaning about Mourinho were ones telling me that because we won the league by 11 points it was too much for any other team to make up so Moyes could not fail.
It is where you end the season that matters.

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25 Nov 2018 22:46:51
Ed
I agree.
Redman
I remember you saying you wanted moyes sacked before a ball was kicked and that you wouldn't back .
Yet you get upset if people question our current manager .

Do you not mean people should back Redman opinion?

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25 Nov 2018 22:56:53
By the way I think fergys biggest achievement was winning the title with that team .

I think we have better players now than cleverly and co but fergy won it by 11 points.

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25 Nov 2018 23:35:13
People talk about Sir Alex winning his final league title and Moyes inheriting that side as if Moyes had an easier time than Jose.

Let's get this straight, Jose took his own title winning side at Chelsea to the point of being in the relegation zone in December the following season.

So let's not suggest success last season means success this season.

Also as many have pointed out, sir Alex's last title winning squad was probably the weakest winning squad in our history. I remember better United sides finishing second on more than one occasion.

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26 Nov 2018 06:50:50
Jred

I was very clear about Moyes, not before a ball was kicked, as you keep peddling, but when there was a rumour before he was even announced.

I don’t get upset as you put it when people question our manager, given performances that is understandable. However that isn’t what is happening, nearly every post, every comment is sack him, yet we have no direction as a club, so it would mean another Woodward appointment and off we go again. There will be 5 managers players in the team and the problems permeating the club plus attitude of players will still be there. No one can be happy right now but I feel the answer is not always sack the manager. Maybe many years of being a manager plus a stint as a football one, even brief and low level, gives me some empathy towards Mourinho who is getting pelted from everywhere. He has the cv unlike Moyes and therefore having lived through the post Busby years, want to give him as much chance as reasonable. That is not upset but I have as much right to defend the manager as you do to criticise him.

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26 Nov 2018 09:06:54
Redman
Stop with the silly posts, I'm managing now . So what
It gives you some empathy towards Jose but you wanted moyes sacked before a ball was kicked .
It double standard after double standard .
Take a step back and listen to yourself.

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26 Nov 2018 09:50:06
Red Man, how can your experience give you empathy for one manager and not another?

In my mind I have more empathy for a manager who was thrown in at the deep end without the relative experience then slated for not being able to do a job he clearly never had the ability to do. Than a manager who has the experience but through his own bloody mindedness has the team performing poorly because of his refusal to adapt to the situation.

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26 Nov 2018 10:58:06
It's going round in circles, I find it hard to lay the blame for moyes and lvg term in charge at there feet then excuses Jose and lay the blame with woods or the board or no DOF which I think is being massively overplayed .
I'm not sure many on here actually understand what a DOF does or who is currently making the decisions a DOF if appointed would .
Maybe if we had pep or poch and the team was playing well people wouldn't be talking about lack of investment lack of ambition . After all we have one of the highest transfer spends in world football over the last few year . Have the 3rd largest wage bill in world football the highest in EPL.

Maybe people are right and the club is that badly run and lack so much ambition that it is impossible for any manager to do well at the club .
We should accept that players like Fred pogba matic Shaw ddg martial lukaku rash linders Mata are just average players incapable of playing attractive football or to any standard .

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26 Nov 2018 18:14:57
Shappy

I had sympathy for Moyes because he was appointed when very clearly he was not remotely qualified for the job and his cv told us that. It was utterly obvious before the appointment, so part of me had sympathy for someone who was so clearly going to fail. I have empathy for Mourinho and his cv does have the requisite skills and medals.

Jred
Maybe you haven’t had to work at a strategic level, so whilst I have not been a DOF, I believe I might have a good guess at one does.

Players get away with poor performances, they are responsible for poor performances, the manager is accountable. I would show some the door in January, make an example, because if they win and the manager goes before some of them, we will only be putting the problems back a few months.

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26 Nov 2018 21:10:28
Redman
Maybe I have?
You may belive you know . That doesn't really mean you do .

It doesn't sound one bit like you do tho .
What you would do means very little to be honest .

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25 Nov 2018 10:57:33
De Gea to PSG.

Good luck David thanks for the service. can't blame him for wanting out.

Believable14 Unbelievable1

25 Nov 2018 11:26:05
Three years ago I would have felt very bitter if DDG was to leave for anyone other than Real Madrid. As I could accept him wanting to move back home. I wouldn't have been happy about it. But I could accept it.

Now however, we have arguably the best keeper in the world, coming into his prime and with little to no hope of winning anything any time soon. So I couldn't hold it against him if he wanted to move to a team with prospects.

Which is a damning indictment of where are club is at the moment.

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25 Nov 2018 12:32:34
Completely agree Shappy. When we see the appallingly low quality of “first team player” United are currently happy to offer new deals to it is completely understandable. The fact that Young, Smalling, Jones, Darmian, Herrera and Mata for example are all likely to stay whilst the likes of Matic, Lukaku Rashford, Lingard and Martial are virtually untouchable just stinks of a lack of any long term planning going back years by the pathetic leadership across the club. It is woeful, and I fear that we are only looking in to the abyss. The real threat is we will fall in to it. I cannot see any signs of revival anywhere. Doom monger I know.

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25 Nov 2018 12:37:21
This is one player who has always given his all and best of luck to him if he moves.

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25 Nov 2018 12:38:03
Players come and go, that's football. I wouldn't get to upset about it.
Ronaldo has won a ridiculous amount of trophies at Madrid, and chose to leave.
It's not just about winning, especially these days. To be honest I am surprised DeGae has stayed this long, IF he does leave.

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25 Nov 2018 14:14:59
Totally agree re Ronaldo betty, but a question i ask, did Ronaldo win more trophies from 2009 - 2018 with Real than Utd did in the same period?
Genuine question.

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25 Nov 2018 14:28:00
Yes FZZ, players come and go betty but when the likes of Ronaldo leave it's hard not to get upset. Maybe selling Ronaldo and Tevez and replacing them with Valencia and Owen was the downfall, whoever thought that was a good idea should have been sacked. In 2009, Ribery and Benzema would have been excellent replacements.

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25 Nov 2018 14:48:26
If everything the Daily Fail reports happened we wouldn’t be in the mess we are in as we would have some top players playing for us. Funny how everything positive is ignored but everything negative is believed 100%.

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25 Nov 2018 16:01:36
Its either happening GDS or he wants more money here. Either way i am happy. Happy for him to commit and earn as much as he wants and happy if he leaves, he doesn't owe us anything.

He deserves to be in a top team going for top titles, he hasn't been in a top side for a while now and it could be affecting his Spain performances due to them games being so much bigger than what he's used to. Soon Kepa will take his place in the Spanish team if he's not careful.

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Mediocrity and apathy now permeate Manchester United like a cancer

25 Nov 2018 10:25:48
{Ed's Note - DLIB has posted a new article entitled, Mediocrity and apathy now permeate Manchester United like a cancer

Believable6 Unbelievable0

25 Nov 2018 11:15:34
Great summation of the situation we are in. Obviously some of us have been saying this for some time and the fact that so many fans seem to be content with the job Jose is doing speaks volumes for the point you were making about expectations.

We need wholesale changes and it starts with the manager. Let's get back to enjoying being Utd fans, not going to happen for most of us with the negative football on offer and a team full of misery.

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25 Nov 2018 11:48:58
Thanks Beast it was a bit of a rant to be honest, possibly an overreaction to another languid performance I wasn't sure it would even get posted!

It wasn't really intended as an anti Jose post more about a perceived malaise around our Club. When you stop striving to be the best, accept mediocrity and accept that finishing in the top 4 represents success this attitude permeates the Club and rewards the players for failure. It gives a licence for the average and mercenaries to come to Old Trafford and coast along knowing that they will be paid handsomely and rewarded not for winning but for simply securing a 4th place finish.

As a business It makes financial sense I get that. It keeps the Club marketable and secures revenue and sponsorship, but from a fans perspective it is largely irrelevant. We should never be content or celebrate anything less than winning. Finishing in the top 4 means nothing. So we get to enter another competition the following season that in reality we have no chance of winning merely making up the numbers so the Club can remain profitable.

It's not just the structure of the Club that needs to change but the whole attitude to competition. We want to win not make up the numbers. When we start accepting that 4th place represents success and we allow the Club to drift without a commitment to sporting excellence we are no longer a football Club merely an irrelevant money making brand or franchise operating without soul or purpose.

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25 Nov 2018 11:59:52
I didn’t like Jose when he was with Chelski but when he became our manager I supported him. We have been pretty ok initially but we are going backwards lately for whatever reasons. Be it The board’s fault, Woody’s fault, manager’s fault or players’ fault I think it is not found us good. I hate it even more especially when we are being compared to the scousers.
I believe it is not productive calling for the manager’s head now but if we really decides to do something, I’ve said it before, I’d try out Carrick for the rest of the season and then see if he is good enough to get the morale and mojo back into the team afterall he has got good rapport with the players. We can never know until we try out right? If anyone is worried then get Nicky to stand in working with Carrick.
It’ll save us money appointing manager midway and beside most managers may not want to move. We can take our time to tee up the new manager if needed. Who knows maybe Neville or Giggs might be keen to come back. Else we can start working on the likes of Poch or whoever.
As I watch the team don’t seem to want to play for Jose. It’s sad and these players ought to be kicked in their backside but we start with unfortunately the manager.
As I said I don’t believe it’s entirely Jose’s fault and it’s a team effort. If we should change manager then we better make sure we get behind the next one and ensure future players’ ego do not grow. We need to get back to the “we are a team” mentality. If once we change manager then we need to start rebuilding the team - from organization, right mentality and players. It may take 2-3 years before we get back to the top but hey I’m fine with that. Hopefully I get to see us become the PL champion again before I’m gone from this earth.
In the meantime I’ll still support the manager and the team even though it’s hard to watch with swearing sometimes 🤣. But afterall its just football and there are more important and urgent things in this world that needs our attention and prayers.
God bless you all.

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25 Nov 2018 12:18:56
Look at the cash we have spent, and people say the club isn't ambitious, doesn't want success.

You would off though a team with cm options of Fred, matic and pogba and options up top of martial rash Sanchez lukaku would be looking to win things .

Did we spend a world record fee on pogba to finish top 4
Or make Sanchez the highest paid player in the league to finish top 4 .
Appoint Jose with remit of 4th .
We have made a bad choice with Jose, but how many people thought he would be a success at the time?
We tried for pep but couldn't get him if we had off we wouldn't be having this convo.

1st is the target 4th is the bare minimum to keep your job .

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25 Nov 2018 12:28:07
I’ve never been a Jose fan but I think you are overreacting somewhat. We finished runners up last year, something has changed this year that has caused the current malaise. I don’t thInk it’s a lack of ambition, we have spent an awful lot of money but it appears not spent it very wisely. I don’t think we are heading for an abyss, nor are we all doomed, we are having a tough time right now and some tough decisions will have to be taken.

Some players do not seem happy, others are not playing to anything like their potential so something needs to change. Our recruitment has been slap happy, Pogba is a distraction and the signing of Sanchez made no sense whatsoever. I fully accept we need a player overhaul but I still believe a number of other Managers would have us much further up the table.

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25 Nov 2018 12:30:32
It's very clear that there are serious issues higher up at our club, the board don't have a clear direction, a clear vision or at least they don't have one they share with the fans.

We talk about the lowering of our standards and its clear to see. What doesn't help, in fact it hugely damages us, is when our manager talks down our side. When Moyes said we should aspire to be like City he was slated for it, and rightly so. So when our current manager says things like we were always targeting second place in our UCL group. Or that the target is top four, then he should rightly be lambasted. How can he be asking his players to perform when he sets the bar too low? The fact of the matter is he was just defecting, stating the club isn't good enough to avoid the question of whether he is good enough.

The previous managerial appointments don't seem to follow a pattern or an idea, which suggests the person hiring doesn't have a clear understanding of what kind of managers different manager are, or has a clear idea of what a Manchester United manager should be.

However, that is a very different issue than how the team is playing. Both need to be sorted out, and soon.

Now for all fans top four isn't seen as good enough. That being said a failure to achieve top four this season will put huge pressure to achieve it next season. Especially when you factor in the financial aspects of not achieving UCL qualification.
There is also a secondary aspect of attracting the right level of players if we aren't in the UCL next season as well as retaining current players such as De Gea.

So the situation is we have a manager who for whatever reason is underachieving, he isn't getting the most out of his players and he doesn't look like he can turn it around without a mass clear out and a huge recruitment drive. None of which are realistically possible before we find out if we have UCL qualification for next season.

So a classic stick or twist.

Do we gamble of Mourinho turning it around and achieving a top four finish, if he fails we will suffer the consequences.

Or do we gamble and sack him and hope whoever replaces him is able to get more out of our current players than he is and that enables us to finish in the top four.

Both seem a dangerous game to play, and we should be wondering how has the club got itself into this situation? Well that brings us back to the first problem with the club and those who currently run it.

We have an easy run between now and Christmas, Palace was supposed to be the start of that. If we fall further behind the top four between now and Christmas then that gamble might start to seem like less of a gamble.

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{Ed002's Note - Which board are you talking about? Who in particular? Stirring everything up from an ill informed position will do no good.}

25 Nov 2018 12:39:50
Matic is not as good as he once was and Pogba is just Pogba. I would get rid of him at the earliest.

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25 Nov 2018 12:45:31
A decent manager who could get these lot playing well and things would look very different.

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25 Nov 2018 12:46:23
Jred - I'm not saying I'm right pal it's just my perception of our Club. I honestly believe we lack ambition. Style aside Jose did a decent job last season and we finished 2nd. This is not success however and the chasm between us and the Champions was huge. We needed a lot more than just Fred and an unknown teenage right back to bridge that gap. We also saw the return of the the "no value in the market" rubbish which so blighted SAF's last few years in charge. Maybe I'm barking up the wrong tree but it's my assertion that the Club were content with our performance last season and didn't want to invest the money required to help us bridge that gap. I honestly believe they lack ambition. Of course they'd like to win but are they really committed and determined to make this happen. I have my doubts. I understand this make me sound like a paranoid idiot but I can't understand why we didn't build on two relatively successful seasons under Jose and show more of a determination to topple City. I think we're paying for that lack of ambition and in the long term it will probably end up costing them a lot more to repair the damage. I say back the manager (within reason obviously), aspire to be the best and if things don't work out then act decisively. That way there can be no excuses.

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25 Nov 2018 12:58:50
Dlib
The gap between city and everyone is massive this is an amazing city team lead by a genius of a manager.

It's maybe not as easy to just go out and buy top players as you think .
Ed has told us the club tried and are very ready to spend cash .

We were sat in second last season when we got Sanchez before city and made him the highest paid player in the epl .
Strange if the target was only 4th.

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25 Nov 2018 13:15:42
AJH - I accept that pal I do have a tendency to write emotional posts which can lack balance and can come across as paranoia.

Maybe if we'd have appointed Pep the board argument would probably be irrelevant. Having said that we saw in his first season that even the great Pep needs significant backing and I suppose we just have no idea what he could achieve with our Club. I've always maintained that if Mourinho couldn't bring success then we are in big trouble but maybe I was wrong and he is a dinosaur like others have suggested? In reality it's probably a combination of problems that are proving really difficult to solve and requires a far greater mind than mine. Good debate thanks to everyone for sharing your views!

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25 Nov 2018 14:07:02
Ed002, The honest answer is I don't know. Having not met them, or being privy to all they do it's hard to have an informed opinion.

I suppose I feel the board aren't doing a great job from smaller little snippets of information and not a small amount of (un) educted guess work.

From an outside perspective the club seems rudderless, at least in a footballing sense. There seems a clear agenda to maximise the profit making capabilities of the club, yet there seems no clear identity about the clubs footballing image. Information from higher up is nonexistent, although I think it's important not to have too many people getting involved in the football of the club, especially if that isn't their area of expertise. I do think it's good for the fans to have a connection with the people running the club and that there can be some unity in what the club is aiming for.

There have been hints that not everyone at board level was happy with the appointment of Mourinho, which suggests a lack of unity and possibly support for the manager. It might also suggest that there isn't one clear defined vision of the club, and different board members view the club differently.

Mostly I suppose many people blame the current malaise the club finds itself in on more than the manager. They feel that after three bad appointments who is accountable for that and what was the thinking behind those three appointments?

Is it just a case of bad appointments or is there something not right in the process of hiring these appointments.

The longer the club struggles and keeps hiring managers who are unable to get the club challenging the more people will question who is hiring these managers and under what remit?

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{Ed002's Note - Which board are you referring to?}

25 Nov 2018 14:19:28
Ed002, the board at Manchester United.

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{Ed002's Note - As I was saying, perhaps you would want to stay clear of things you don’t understand. It is typical for football supporters to blame people they don’t know, and typical of Manchester United supporters not to understand the structure of the club. The constant moaning and people typing the same stuff over and over is tiresome and making the Manchester United pages unusable.}

25 Nov 2018 14:57:32
What is your opinion on United's situation ed? You are very on the money with your assessments and it would be great to hear your opinion. Thanks.

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{Ed002's Note - Allegri should be in his second season know so the Toxics got what they deserved. However, over-reacting to a simple draw doesn't help anyone and the site is becoming unusable with people wrecking every thread that they can spouting the same ill informed nonsense. There is never any mention of advisors whilst all and sundry are blamed. Players come and go, MU blocked DDG leaving before so he will be far from happy. Pogba has been done to death. The expectations on Martial are too high for the ridiculous money pad. Inbrahimovic caused issues and was a mistake. There remain those who don't trust the coach and there was a lack of support

25 Nov 2018 15:03:48
That's cool Ed002. At least we know its all down to Mourinho now. lol.

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25 Nov 2018 15:16:53
Correction - Moyes should be entering his 5th/ 6th season - I forget which because it's been mind numbingly boring since he was in charge. The whole fiasco started with hiring him on a 6 year deal.

That was the plan!

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25 Nov 2018 16:12:37
As pointed out yesterday, Moyes after 13 games had more points, more goals scored and less conceded than we currently do. With arguably a weaker side, at least on paper.

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25 Nov 2018 16:40:56
Not an excuse for Jose Shappy but the Moyes team was better than the current one, champions the season before and all of them actually looked like they wanted to play for the club.

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25 Nov 2018 18:17:49
Oh come on. Every man and his dog on here was saying what an awful state Fergie had left the team in. RVP was the difference that year, and an amazing manager. I've always maintained Fergie's biggest achievement, was eeking out one last title from such a relatively ordinary team. Could you imagine what he could have done with players of the quality of Pogba, Sanchez and Mata, as well as the exciting young talent we have now in our squad?

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25 Nov 2018 19:02:32
Scholes, it's arguable either way to be honest. On one side the team were champions, and supposedly all of them wanted to be there. Although RvP has said he might not had joined if he knew Sir Alex would retire after one season. So that might suggest at least one player wasn't completely happy at the start of that season. Its probably fair to say many players were probably concerned as to how the season might pan out after Sir Alex retired.

On the other hand we had some terrible players and many of our best players were well into their 30's. Practically our entire defence was past their best, Rio, Vidic and Evra. Scholes retired for a second time before that season started and he was probably our best midfielder between January and June in his final season. Maybe only Carrick on a similar level. RvP has a great season the year before firing us to the title, yet he wasn't completely happy going into that season, plus injuries started to effect him again that season. then players like Anderson and Nani who had failed to live up to expectations, Rafael and Fabio, Kagawa, Cleverley, Evans, Zaha, Powell, Buttner, Micheal Keane and Welbeck.

That was on paper and in actuality probably our weakest side to win the league.

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25 Nov 2018 15:42:40
Ed002 it's all well and good pointing out we should have Allegri on season 2 but that ship has sailed and the direction of the club seems to be lost. I and I think everyone here is more concerned with the new plan. Is there one? It doesn't seem like it.

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{Ed002's Note - I am not sure there needs to be right now. I appreciate the club drew a game.}

25 Nov 2018 16:03:08
We see what you're saying Ed002 but these draws and losses are becoming a regular occurence now, fair enough if it's not happening too much but when it's happening this often there's bound to be a backlash from the fans.

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{Ed002's Note - If someone new came in and after a few weeks they were wining, drawing and losing would you want someone else - are your expectations reasonable. Where did the club end up last season?}

25 Nov 2018 18:36:24
Ed 002. As you have repeatedly said Allegri was the manager the club had in mind a few years back to take the club forward.

The Owners and Board must be concerned at the results and, contrary to the belief of some posters, are not all idiots. They will see and hear the discontent from the fans and also know the damage it will do to the clubs share price if we are consistently out of the trophies. Would you know if they have a manager in mind to succeed Jose if things do not work out and it would be interesting to hear who You would pick who might reasonably be available as his successor and why you would pick him. Thanks for your time.

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{Ed002's Note - I would hope the deal with the fans with the contempt the fans deserve. Your go to Mail or Mirror or whatever told you Zizou would be taking over a few weeks ago - that should be enough for a while.}}

25 Nov 2018 20:39:58
Thanks ed. And in relation to Jose, should he gain the support needed? Do you believe that he can still take this united team further?

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{Ed002's Note - The fans are done with him, the club has already demonstrated their position. I am not sure where this is going.}

25 Nov 2018 21:25:12
Well I believe he is a world class coach. I hope come January and summer, he will be able to make the necessary moves to bring in the players he wants and move on the players he wants out.

I also am 100% sure that no matter who comes in after, whether it be god himself, 'fans' would be calling for his head too if a few results weren't going their way.

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{Ed025's Note - and thats fine angel, im sure if jose turns things around he will be the best thing since sliced bread again mate, this is not something that is exclusive to united though as all teams supporters are very much the same..

25 Nov 2018 21:35:52
True ed025. Just wish we could be more realistic with our own expectations. I've not been convinced by the bulk of the current squad, many of whom have been there since fergie/ moyes. It's almost like their is a rotten core than hasn't been fully eradicated and no matter the player being added they seem to get sucked into that core.

It's a pattern that has emerged since Fergie left. Players consistently underperforming.

Too easy nowadays to blame the manager.

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{Ed025's Note - united can only have one expectation angel and thats to win every competition they enter its the way the club has set itself up for many years mate, success has meant that when things dont go to plan its classed as a catastrophe im afraid..

26 Nov 2018 10:41:10
Great point Beast. Cannot believe we’re back to the toxics. Unbelievable.

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Premier League Matches Preview 25 November 2018

25 Nov 2018 10:07:01
{Ed's Note - Reid the Red has posted a new article entitled, Premier League Matches Preview 25 November 2018

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Review Of The Day 25th November 2018

25 Nov 2018 07:29:01
{Ed's Note - Ed001 has posted a new article entitled, Review Of The Day 25th November 2018

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25 Nov 2018 04:43:27
Ok, i am officially bored. Switched off the tv before the game finished. But, i will still be watching us struggle against the Young Boys next game. Ridiculous. I am not sure if changing the manager would do us any good but at this stage i am ready to try.

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25 Nov 2018 05:58:29
UA I want Mourinho gone, have wanted him gone since last season Sevilla game. But only a blind idiot would think just changing the manager will change everything.

Getting the next manager right is pivotal or we just won't be on the way to becoming the new Liverpool of 90's we will be the Liverpool of 90's, first thing we need is get a DoF before we get the manager. Give it to McKenna and Carrick for rest of the season. Get a DoF and then get a manager who can work with him.

Both Lvg and Mourinho were past their prime, so I don't trust Woodward to get it right the 3rd time either. We need someone to take footballing decisions, someone better than Woodward, and a manager who plays according to our ethos, which is watchable attacking football.

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25 Nov 2018 07:35:42
All sounds great CSM. Who makes the appointment and who should the next manager be?

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25 Nov 2018 09:04:55
That fella at spurs could be good shout, simply for the fact he didn't get what he wanted in the transfer window, but chose not to throw his toys out the pram or throw his team under the bus but instead got on with it.

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25 Nov 2018 09:43:08
Big Sam is looking for a job 😀.

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25 Nov 2018 11:04:59
Good shout DSG, sensible to make that appointment now without the right people in place up above?

6 months in and is not going his way, I can guarantee we will have 'fans' on here saying the jobs too big, he's never won anything etc etc.

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25 Nov 2018 11:38:59
Angel two slightly different issues, the reason we can't compete with city is down to the structure/ owners.

However the reason we are mid table is down to jose and his negativity right from the off this season.

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25 Nov 2018 12:46:22
Angel i personally would like poch, but the first priority has to be a DOF not the manager, once you settle in on the DOF get a manager to suit his style. I have no clue who good DOF's are so don't really have a preference.

DSG did city really have a better structure? They had a bunch of guys who had worked with guardiola before i don't see how that is structure. Guardiola has replaced all those he could or was allowed to replace in his time, he just had a bit better team than the one mourinho got at utd at start.

But after that guardiola has consistently signed players that play his way, some of them didn't work but most of those especially the big buys have worked or guardiola has just persevered with them, You think John Stones is Pep Guardiola's first choice CB, Raheem sterling is what pep guardiola wanted as a first choice winger when he came to city. But you can't get rid of players who you got for as big money as they, Guardiola has worked with what he had and made tweaks elsewhere. For all the guardiola was allowed to replace his players narrative on here, only players he actually replaced or got rid of were Nolito and Claudio bravo. Everyone else he uses.

Mourinho on the other hand, signed a 100mn MF wanted him replaced by another 100mn MF. Replaced his 27mn signing with a guy who earns 500k. Wants to replace his 30mn CB with a 50mn CB. IF mourinho bought better he won't have this problem of so called structure issue.

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