Manchester United Banter Archive July 26 2012

26 Jul 2012 22:22:50
the delay in the ipo flotation may not be a bad thing, if there is a clear lack of interest in buying so called shares { worthless } it may just hit home with the glazers that utd are not the cash cow that they have drained over the last 7 years, and that looking for a future buyer may be a viable option, heres hoping............... DJS.

DJS

I think people misunderstand why the Glazers need £1.5bn plus for United if they sell.

First, any purchase is likely to be predicated on the Glazers clearing the £430m directly borrowed for the purchase of the club. I suspect that there are other loans / borrowings related to the purchase of the club they will also need to clear - the £230m that cleared the PIKs must have come from somewhere, for example. I also suspect the Glazers have other borrowing within their empire leveraged against some of their United holdings, however much they state this is not the case. This could be borrowing against the value of the debt they bought back, for example. I suspect the overall sale price would have to be at least £1bn on that basis just to start drawing a profit for them.

So I think the problem is they can't sell for much less than £1.5bn without putting the rest of their empire at further risk.

That's why I suspect they'll move to a full flotation. Ironically, they've put the club in a stronger overall financial / business position during their tenure (albeit not in a way that has benefitted fans) so we'd be more viable as a PLC if this did happen than we were last time.

DarkLard08

26 Jul 2012 21:52:23
Ive seen some terrible refereeing performances lately and this just adds to the long list of them... clear stone wall penalty and there should of been a red card for one of the Senegalese players.

26 Jul 2012 20:52:08
About time we realised that we have done our spending for the summer, can't see anyone else coming in, sure I think we have made bids but as usual we just won't pay that bit extra for what we want. WHY oh why are we not trying to buy a central midfielder, that is clearly what we need.
Oh well let's look forward to another season where our midfield gets overrun by the likes of West Brom and Norwich.

Red Daz

More like blue rinse than red daz when did you ever manage a club?
ARB

26 Jul 2012 20:42:44
Tom cleverly playing well

Caolán.

His pass success rate had to be in the 90's, close to 100% if he hadn't hit those two long balls late on. Good to see his fitness coming back.

Sydney!

Thought he was very bright. Reminds me in style of Scholes in his latter years - always looking to find space and get on the ball and picks out his teamates well. Unfortunately I'd say he's about as good at defending as Scholes! Much better going forwards

Gav

26 Jul 2012 20:23:52
If Manchester United were to benefit from the proceeds of the IPO where is the money coming from to pay for all the work on the share sale?

We spend every day on here talking about scraping around to find the money to buy players yet all the while the Glazers are spending money on failed attempts to sell shares. How much have these two attempts cost? Whatever it is it adds to the £500m already wasted. Imagine if it was £2m , not unreasonable but is that the difference between our and Sao Paulos valuation of Lucas?

Red Man

I heard the Singapore attempt cost £4m in banking fees. Not 100% certain though.

Sydney!

Sydney

£4m for the first one and how much are we arguing over on Lucas.

It seems that we can throw money at the share sale as it benefits the Glazerd by reducing the debt giving them more assets but penny pinch on transfers.

I understand for the latest IPO there were going to be road shows and fancy presentations costing plenty of money

I can't believe people cannot see what is going on

Red Man

I heard we paid the bankers £4m to see the IPO through, not sure if that's in total or just for the Singapore IPO, but I did hear this before we filed for the NYSE so surely that would have been even more? Or perhaps the bankers didn't receive the full amount because the IPO never went through? I really don't know mate, all I heard was the bankers costs were £4m. Wouldn't mind as long as the IPO goes through, but it isn't.

Sydney!

Sydney

Some of the bankers costs would be to underwrite the issue but there will be some no doubt even for cancelling
There will be hefty stockbroker and consultant fees as well

More money out of the club

Red Man

26 Jul 2012 19:22:04
Team England and Wales soon to take to the hallowed turf - come on Senegal

26 Jul 2012 17:40:29
Michael Keane is set to be loaned out to Aberdeen
Probably a chance for first team action as he appears to have a lot of potential but is not quite yet good enough to be in the first team at united

26 Jul 2012 17:38:07
Don't fancy signin this gaston Ramirez he's got awful hair
Superdecs

26 Jul 2012 17:20:33
Just reading tonights edition of the Manchester Evening News & cant believe Mancini saying he is dissapointed that ciddy havent bought anyone so far. For f%"^ks sake they have spent over £400million in the last 3 seasons & have a massive & very powerfull squad, just how many players does he want, i reckon hes seen us,chelsea,arsenal,spurs & even liverpool spending & is getting twitchy,because even though they won the league it was only on goal difference & touch wood we have a lot less key injuries in the coming season. MIDDLETON RED

26 Jul 2012 16:59:00
I'm trying to think of someone worse i could suggest we sign as a joke.............but i can't think of anyone!

Liverpools first team.

26 Jul 2012 16:39:24
Does anyone know what's going on with Lucas or rvp ??

Seems to be nothing going on at all today ?

Salford red

Lucas is over, he's not coming to utd

Langers

26 Jul 2012 15:44:23
"The fans deserve a big signing that's for sure.". Sydney.
Really!?! Deserve? Is it because you got relegated? No? You missed the top 4? Nope. You haven't won the EPL title in decades? No? You have never won the UCL? No. Ah wait, cuz you have crap manager? No?
Syd I think your a pretty intelligent person but that comment is a joke. Says a lot about MU supporters really. God forbid you go a season without silverware ,it's beneath you lot to have other teams enjoy a little bit of success.
Can't wait for SAF to retire and hopefully Kenny D takes over. It would look good on ya all. You guys deserve a couple of seasons out of the top 5 to truly appreciate what you have had all these years with the greatest manager ever.
Comments like "we deserve" equate to ungrateful greedy spoiled brats! Sorry, but just got to call it as I see it. Rant over. Good luck next season.
Ezdee
PS Kudos to you Syd, you had RVP pegged bang on all last season even when most thought it was unthinkable, you stuck to your guns and said he would not re-sign.

Excelent post i agree wit you but its not the fact we have not won a bean that we are givin out about it the fact other teams we compete with are makin stronger the positions that caused them problems an we seem to struggle nailing down a big fan pleasing signing. the fans want us to spend big as a show of strenght its all bull but its all compitition

Ezdee, because your club will never make a big signing and your fans are mugs and accept that, it doesn't mean we should accept it. Manchester United are a club that should be making big signings every couple of years at least. You may be happy with £13m (maximum) signings, but we are a club who expects to see £25m+ signings. Luckily for us we are trying to sign £25m+ players, whereas Arsenal are not. You may be happy with low budget signings, but we are not.

Sydney!

Other teams can spend and strengthen all they want, but unless they are buying SAF, you should not worry so much. I mean, cmon, Mancini, DiMatteo, really. If SAF had Sh!tty's squad, or Chelski's, he would rack up a quadruple!
I just hope these billionaires get bored and piss off one day and leave their clubs neck deep in debt. It's what they deserve. Then it could go back to the respectable days of MU vs Arsenal. Maybe even Liverpool! Lol J/k, Liverpool sucks a$$!
Ezdee

It's not about winning or not winning; it's about playing fast-flowing attractive football, which we haven't done for the last couple of seasons. This is what us MU fans expect, and it just hasn't been there for the last couple of years. So yes, we DO deserve better. End of.

DL10

"but we are a club who expects to see £25m+ signings" Even when your club is in hundreds of millions in debt you still expect these huge signings? Lol, thanks Syd, like I said, spoiled!
Ezdee

It's alright getting a £25m player like Kagawa for £12m or a £2m Powell who will likely end up a £25m player, but this is not going to happen every summer. Sometimes the club need to pay a top fee for a top player. Maybe not three every summer, but perhaps a biggy or two every couple of summers.

Sydney!

Lol, mate so in other words you are jealous and you wish Arsenal and United could switch places for a few seasons?

I think te comment 'deserve' is more in relation to us not having made a 'big signing' since Berba 3/4 years ago, not because we didnt win anything last year

It sounds funny coming from an Arsenal fan too - most of which constantly moan about a lack of 'big signings' and about Wenger's stinginess in the transfer market

Gav

"but we are a club who expects to see £25m+ signings" Even when your club is in hundreds of millions in debt you still expect these huge signings? Lol, thanks Syd, like I said, spoiled!
Ezdee"

Ezdee - what has our debt got to do with it when the money for any transfer we make will come from our profit? (that is, profit after making debt payments). It's not like we're going out to borrow another £30m to buy Moura, it would just come from the money we generate as a club! What is wrong with this?

You really are coming across as bitter. Can't think why...oh rite I forgot you support a team that sells it's best players each year

Gav

First off, DL10, great response.
Syd, for me, Kagawa has been the steal of the summer. As far as being mugs and accepting the low budget signings, what would you like me to do, write a letter to the board?
Gav, I put my name and who I support so not to hide or be accused of being a scouser

Ezdee, Arsenal's cheapest season ticket costs more than our most expensive season ticket even though you haven't won sh1t for seven years and we have won plenty. The club keep flogging your best players because they will not give them a salary that they believe they deserve. You are buying players for £13m tops and you are happy with that.

You may be happy with that but we wouldn't be.

Sydney!

Damn iPhone , hit send too soon.
Anyway, Mr Gav, I claim my association with Arsenal as not to hide anything and you use it to claim jealousy and bitterness. Not the fact that in my op, the point was that saying your club "deserves" big signings sounds very self righteous and arrogant to other clubs' supporters. You deserve big signings why really, because you should be champions every year? Should the rest of the clubs just pack it up and hand you the trophies every year?
I'm just saying what a lot of other clubs fans have been saying all these years. Did you read the posts after you got knocked out of the UCL this year? I did. You would of thought it had been decades since you won it or anything. Some even slated the great SAF. Saying he was past it. Shocking! But a few months prior, you won the title and finished runner up in the UCL. Way to appreciate the man.
Anyways I'm bored of this, again, good luck, no hard feelings just a bit of banter to pass the time, and I hope you all get what you deserve. Emile Heskey! J/k, no one deserves that.
Ezdee

Ezdee

Yes banter indeed, no hard feelings!

The thing is football is a business these days and as a business United generate huge revenues. This is all because of the success we've had and the following we currently have (who buy the tickets and merch). I think what Syd meant by 'deserve' is that we make plenty of cash (off the fans backs) to get a £25m+ signing every now and again, and we haven't now for a while. We are United and it's not for us to let other clubs be champions once in a while, as you seem to suggest. It is up to us to try and maintain our high standards and up to the other clubs to try and beat that, as City did this year

Ayway rant over, just wanted to explain my original point

Good luck to you too for next season!

Gav

26 Jul 2012 14:54:54
the last thing United need is another injury prone midfielder.

Who?

GDS

Nuri Sahin by any chance? If so one injury does not make him injury prone, just like Cleverley isn't injury prone...

fearny

26 Jul 2012 13:44:23
The Liverpool fans must be bored today judging by some of the ridiculous nonsense i have seen on here today!

26 Jul 2012 13:30:38
Any danger of uploading any of my posts {Ed004's Note - What posts?}

26 Jul 2012 12:49:35
After reading this morning that the flotation is not going to happen i am getting worried.
Will this now affect us getting another couple of quality names into our squad for this season?
How anybody including Fergie can sit there and say good things about the Glazers is beyond me.
They have raped our club and took over half a billion pounds from it stoppin us competing for top players.
It's an absolute disgrace how this family even got into a position to buy our fantastic club.
I am really p*ssed off about the whole thing now!

Sorry for being negative!

Simmo

Would you tell your boss he was rubbish and say horrible things about him in public? Thought not. Fergie said the glazers have backed him with every transfer, we don't know if this is true or not so no point speculating.

When the ipo was announced loads of people on here said it was terrible and a bad thing, are they the same people saying if it gets postponed it is also a bad thing?

Not saying that is you Simmo as I can't remember what your opinions were at the time, but don't think I have ever read a positive post from you on here and when I question you you always get very defensive and kick off at me. So I expect that again this time.

GDS

Why? KLOOT/RFT has been telling you this for 2-3years mate, and a few believers like myself have been repeating his claims.

Why has it taken you til now to realise? SAF ahs been covering for the Glazers for a very long time, as has Gill, and both SAF and Gill have been lying to you and me for several years now.

RED_SKY

RED_SKY

Why are you berating someone for agreeing with your views?

Surely you should be happy more supporters are coming around to your way of thinking.

GLAZERS OUT!

Red Joe

GDS

I don't claim to have any kind of financial kowledge but i know the basics of what the Glazers have done to our club.
I have never once said on any of my posts that i support them i can't even bear to look at them and how they are allowed to watch a match at Old Trafford is unbelievable!
I am not asking Fergie to come out and call them all kinds of things but just be straight with us fans. Surely Fergie knows that we don't believe this constant crap about how we can compete with the top clubs when we can't, just look at the last three years since we sold Ronaldo and Tevez and look at all the names we have missed out on. Something is wrong don't you think??
Im not always negative, Kagawa is a great signing and we don't know alot about Powell as he is still very young and learning and could turn out to be a cracking player for us.
The fact is this squad we have now is nowhere near good enough to challange on all fronts it was only Fergie's fantastic management and winning mentality that got us near to City last season. Would you honestly say the football was great last season because i certainly didn't think so. We were horrible in Europe because we just wern't good enough playing Giggs, Park and Scholes in midfield.
I have no doubt that we will be there or there about's next year in the premiership race but only because of Fergie because he is so special at what he does whilst they sit back and put money in there pockets from our hard earned cash.
REDSKY - i am agreeing with you about the Glazers.

Simmo

I also remember gds saying it was a goodd
thing and i said there was a c hance it wouldnt even get off the ground,so not such a good thing ehhh.
mick the red fireman.

To all above posters (Simmo and co)

Apologies, that wasn't meant to come across as harsh - I just find it baffling that only now some are realising this. It's been the same for a few seasons now.

I predict the following:

- no more major signings; maybe 1 youngster.
- SAF/Gill to give their usual spin, no value in the market etc (when we know full well this doesn't stop any of our rivals improving their teams)
- another trophyless season and finally
- (this is more a hope) - the Glazers realise that 2 x trophyless seasons does not bode well and decide to get out of town.

RED_SKY

RED_SKY

Lets hope the last point about them leaving town is true!

Simmo

RED_SKY

Much as I would love to see them go after a couple of trophy-less seasons, why would they?

They know when they're on to a good thing. We're the gift that keeps on giving. I bet they could hardly believe their luck when they got us - invest none of their own money in a worldwide 'brand' ( God, how I hate that term when talking about a football team of our stature), and take the certain profits that ensue from ownership.

I mean, if you're a businessman, it's quite brilliant....unfortunately, it's also happens to be an almighty kick in the nuts to real football fans....

StevieK

StevieK

Agreed. A lack of trophies for a couple of seasons would seriously dent our incomings though, that's for sure, they'd feel that surely! Hope so.

RED_SKY

RED_SKY

don't know mate - with supporters in Asia especially, willing to spend their money on a cigarette butt with the UTD badge on it, I have a horrible feeling they could fleece us for another few years more, trophies or not :(

StevieK

When I was last in South-East Asia travelling, 2009, it was incredible how many Thais/Indonesians considered themselves Chelsea fans now......

I'm going back in 2013, I bet the City shirts will be absolutely everywhere. I'm confident that a few seasons without trophies would see our fanbase decrease at least a little - they have no ties to any English team really, and quite often, side with whoever's winning.

RED_SKY

26 Jul 2012 12:02:55
Just wanted to pick up on something that Sydney said about this summer being pivotal to the future of the club. I completly agree. Next year we will see the retirements of Giggs and Scholes, Ferdinand may move on if one of Evans, Smalling or Jones can hold down a place. Evra surely will be gone. Fletcher may retire also. Thats 4 of our over 30 experienced players and also a great engine in Fletcher who has worked hard to get where he has. This season we have also lost experience, Park has gone and Berbatov will go. Macheda will follow (not that i'm bothered). So for me, its vital that we get most of their replacements in now so they have a year at the club to bed themselves in. Some replacements I feel we could have within the club, Cleverly could replace Scholes, Lingard could replace Giggs and Tunnicliffe could replace Fletcher - even Wooton is in with a shout.

But we can't just hope that these lads make the grade. Even if they do, we would still be short in numbers. We have Kagawa and Powell already, two great buys. But we need 3 more for me. A box2box player, a versatile attacker and a left back. Ideally it would have been Alba, Martinez and Hazard. But we must look elsewhere so thats why I feel Baines, Cirigliano and Moura are the targets. If that fails, Izaguirre is 3rd choice, but i'm not sure about who we'd turn to instead of Moura and I'm not sure we are even in for Cirigliano. I have mentioned Cirigliano because he has youth on his side and bags of talent and versatility - he is fairly low risk.

If we had a summer where we managed to get Powell, Kagawa, Cirigliano, Moura and Baines we would be nicely set up. Baines would give a bit of experience to the back line as we would have a couple of younger players in there like Rafael/Jones/Smalling alongside the experience of Baines and Vidic - a good blend. We would have a youthful central midfield with the experience of Carrick alongside Anderson, Cleverly, Tunnicliffe, Petrucci, Powell, Lingard etc. The wings would also have that blend, the experienced heads of Valencia, Nani and Young with the youth of Moura. And also up top with Rooney's experience alongside Welbeck, Chicharito and probably Will Keane.

If we do secure these players then next summer will be relatively quiet. More will leave/retire than will come in. If SAF is still in charge we could move for Rodwell, Barkley, Lundstram, Papadopoulos, Henriquez etc. Getting the job done now is crucial I feel to the long term success of this club, hopefully in a couple years time when Scholes et al have moved on this could be a successful line up for us:

_____________DDG
Rafa___Small___Vidic/Jones__Baines
____Clevs___Tunners___Kagawa
____Moura___Rooney___Welbeck

That is also heavily Enlgish which is a nice touch. There would also be plenty of options with Petrucci, perhaps Barkley, Hernandez, Keane, Lingard etc. The future will be looking good if we do the right things NOW.

RedDevil19

Not a bad shout. Following Shappy's post on Dembele the other day perhaps it could be Baines, Dembele and Moura coming in?

Let's hope we bring in at least 2 more of our targets

Gav

Dembele or Cirigliano would both be effective, energetic players. Cirigliano has been brought up to play there though, its more of a recent transition for Dembele so Cirigliano is still my preference.

RedDevil19

I think we may go for Rodriguez if moura fails, or even next year.

him on the left instead of wellbeck would be a more balanced team

RD19

How can this Cirigliano? guy be your preference, the chances are you know nothing of this kid. He plays in south America if I am correct. A few YouTube videos doesn't make you a top scout. It is very likely that you didn't even know this kid before he was linked with us. You change your mind on the "best fit" for us more often than you change your underpants.

Today Cirigliano? tomorrow it will be some other random name we get linked to. Stop watching YouTube and get off of FIFA.

REDLAD

I think the last 2/3 years have all been pretty pivotal what with Neville, Van De Sar and Hargreaves (pretty much) all retiring as well as Ronaldo and Tevez moving on.
De Gea for VDS - long term maybe good replacement
Valencia for Ronaldo - Well, he is irreplacable and Valencia is a totally different player but a good signing none the less
Chicharito for Tevez - Great first season, not so much second, the jury is out.
Rafael for G Neville - More talented, certainyl not as reliable but he is young, time will tell.
You could argue that bar Evra there are perhaps replacements already beign bought through for the defence in Smalling/JOnes/Rio Cleverly for Fletcher, Pertrucci/Powell for Scholes.
Its too early to judge most of these players of course, however it is mildly concerning that in most cases so far at least you would certainly rather have the former player than the new one.
I dont think we are just looking at replacements, the signings of Kagawa and Powell show signs of this. I think we are looking at slight changes to our style. I am not surprised we are being linked with a big signing this summer as for all the techical and intelligence potentially of the signings we have made, bar potentially Nani we dont have anybody with the magic to make something happen like Ronaldo did and that we need so the likes of Hazard and Moura dont really surprise me. The BIG thing for me in the next 12 months though is our midfield, we have Cleverly/Powell/Anderson/Pertrucci/Tunnicliffe but bar Carrick that is probably it next season. I think bar Martinez there arent any obvious signings to make in the middle, most of the names mentioend for me are average. I think either Fergie is giving it another year in the middle to give ANderson a chance and test some of the youngsters or maybe there is some genuien interest in a new steely midfielder like this Argentinian mentioned. Either way personally I think we still have a side without any more signings as it is to challenge for the premiership, challenge for the champions league though and I think we are definately short in terms of quality in a couple of areas, all the more reason to hope for a Hazard Moura type signing and hopeful surprise talented one
Invisible STuey

26 Jul 2012 11:43:58
I am just going to take a moment of my time to shoot down Bebe.

I really did get giggles when some of you were saying that Bebe has played well and maybe he has a future with United. He doesn't.

How can some of you call for Chicharito's head then say Bebe is good based on pre season? Hernandez has had 1.5 solid seasons where he has scored important goals (without having a magic touch or any build up ability) yet Bebe, who has been slammed for even being a footballer and has become a joke amongst our own fans has been given a second chance....

They are both simular ages yet some of you think Bebe will come good and Hernandez wont? get real.

The moment Bebe has a bad game or falls over trying to kick the ball you will all be slamming him again. Anyone who reads my posts will know how much I stick up for our own but I just can't stick up for Bebe, the decision to sign him is beyond dumb.

1redarmy

1redarmy

You are spot on mate...i was thinking the same yesterday but just didn't have time to post anything.
Simoe people are fickle...Bebe is absolute dog sh*te end of.

Simmo

Hey guys just want to throw my 5 cents in on this discussion after giving it some thought. If you guys could find it in you to empathise with Bebe instead of knocking him every chance you get you might be able to have a better outlook. Lets not forget he was recently homeless and now plays for the biggest team in the world surely he should get a grace period for transition. Other players get the excuse oh he just needs time to adjust why not Bebe his life has done a 360 so why slate him at every turn. He may well surprise some of you but to blast someone because UNITED paid an insane amount for him is not his fault. You guys expecting him to be a world beater are naive give him time and confidence and he could be a quality player. Those of you that keep hating on him even when he tries his ass off and seems to be improving are only a hinderance to his development. I am by no means a Bebe fan but I feel that everyone deserves a fair go at it before being dismissed. As long as he wears the red shirt of United I will back him and hope for him to do good things for us. I'm sorry if I'm not as negative as some of you but give the kid some credit. Just my honest opinion.

Darren-Bermuda

Simmo - do you ever say anything positive about our club or our players?

I'm undecided on Bebe but doubt he will ever make it at our club

Gav

26 Jul 2012 11:30:20
With the IPO pretty much cancelled, I honestly cant see us signing RVP or Lucas. Maybe SAF got some info regarding the IPO not going ahead and thats why he has been so vocal with the bids for RVP and Lucas ? He knew we would'nt have money so if he says were in for both of them then he comes off good with the fans ?? Maybe im just thinking too much about it. He could of just been putting pressure on the Glazers to back him with new signings. I honestly dont know, Any thoughts on the matter?

Dylan

I don't think it will affect our transfers as I dont think they have cancelled it all together, they are just waiting for the right time.

1redarmy

Moura or another big signing is still possible as a Nani sale will likely fund the deal. I do think it will only be one top signing now, still think they will all be good signings though, just not all expensive.

Sydney!

Im very love/hate when it comes to Nani. Has great moments of skill but the he fails to make the easy passes or holds onto the ball too long. I dont know if id be happy or sad if he left. If he did leave, Id much rather the money spent on Lucas rather than Van Persie. Mad money to pay for a nearly 29 year old player who has only had 1 season injury free. Great player last season but just not worth it over all when you include 10m + wages for 3-4 years. Lucas or Eriksen for me. Possibly Willems at PSV if nothing happens with Baines.

Dylan

I am at a loss to what difference the postponing of the IPO will make to transfers and why Nani's transfer would have to fund the Moura bid. Some of the so called posters with authority on here have always said that it is Fergie's reluctance to pay over the odds for a player that has restricted us in the transfer market and that money has always been available, so what difference does it make postponing the IPO. Surely if we don't sign Moura it is because we are not prepared to pay the price and nothing to do with the IPO being postponed.
On top of that where has the 'Hazard money' gone, we bid for him before the details of the IPO were made known, so why do we have to sell Nani to fund the Moura transfer. Also if we are relying on selling Nani to raise funds look back to last summer when it seems Nani was touted around and there were no takers at the price we wanted, so that doesn't bode well.
Or maybe, just maybe there is a realism that we do not have the funds to compete at the top end of the transfer market, hence suggestions that we need to sell Nani to fund Moura.

Keanooh

Sell before you buy syd . wow . thats where your club is at under the glazers .

Keanooh, I have always said that I believe Nani will be sold if another winger is signed floatation or no floatation. If we signed Hazard I believe Nani would have been sold. My views haven't changed.

No name, all clubs balance the books. Even City will have to sell be fore they can buy. RM must do the same.

Sydney!

Keanooh

We certainly don't have the funds to compete with Chelsea/City/PSG (if that is the 'top'). But then we never competed with Chelsea back when they started spending hundreds of millions. We are self sufficient and they are not

I do however believe our club SHOULD be in a position to add what we need and we should be able to afford a £25m+ player from time to time. So I will feel let down if we get to Sep with Kagawa/Powell as our main signings

This summer feels like a bit of a watershed moment for our club in that sense

Gav

Syd , you just keep saying that it will all work out when clearly it is beginning to manifest in your transfer or lack of spending power , other clubs might balance the books as you put it but they dont HAVE TO like utd have to . kawaga and powell are hardly going to sort out utds lack of quality . {Ed004's Note - But them, along with the return of our captain and all our youngsters becoming a lot more experienced will}

No name, we are a self sufficient football club, we are not owned by a sugar daddy, we use our profits to buy players, not money generated by outside sources. Liverpool, City, Chelsea are all funded by their owners. Arsenal, United, Spurs are self sufficient. We need to balance the books like any other PROPER football club would have to. At the very worst I think our team will line-up like this next season, not too bad is it?

___________DDG
Rafael__Small___Vidic__Baines
______Carrick___Scholes
TonyV_____Kagawa____L.Nani
__________Rooney

Sydney!

Is that team good enough to win the league or CL?
Jred

The league yes, the UCL no.

Then again a very ordinary Chelsea team were the poorest team in every tie yet still won the UCL.

I wouldn't be happy with this Jred, but I think this is the worst we could expect.

Sydney!

Syd
The UCL you always have a chance as chelsea proved last year, but i dont think that team is good enough to win it if im honest.
and the league, well we have a chance but if im honest i think the city team on paper is better I also think city will be a better team for winning it last year, just look at us once we won the first one.

the truth is with the above team i wouldn't put money on us winning the league or the UCL next year
jred

26 Jul 2012 10:40:53
So the IPO has been put on hold with andy green saying its dead in the water
the reason being given for it not launching is due to volatile markets the same as the last 2 times but its been reported that the real reason is "Fund managers who have looked at its preliminary prospectus have been either negative or lukewarm on the prospect of buying shares in the club"
a major issue being the glazers over valuation of the club.

I think the major question is how much do the glazers need this money from the IPO and what affect will not getting the money have on the club and our transfer spending
jred

I wasn't too fussed about next summer's funds or the summer after, but really wanted us to bring in what we needed this summer. With just 1-2 top signings added to Kagawa and Powell we would have the youth to keep us strong for many years to come. This summer was very important and I hope the IPO cancellation hasn't restricted our funds. However I suspect it has :(

Sydney!

Syd
I think you may be right ,
jred

Jred, the very least I'd expect is Nani/Moura, Dembele and Baines. This is the least I would expect to happen this summer.

Sydney!

So Syd - would you now agree that we are in financial difficulty? Last summer you were insistent the Glazers ownership wasn't affecting our transfer market delvings......same this summer....

Are you finally ready to agree that the club is in financial jeopardy and, contrary to what SAF and Gill have been spinning us for years, we cannot compete financially and cannot get the right players?

RED_SKY

Sorry, that's not what I expect will happen, it's what I personally would be happy with, the very least. I should have been clearer.

Sydney!

RED_SKY, not at all, I just expected us to be more flexible with the IPO going ahead. Obviously funds will be more prioritised than they could have been if we had been floated.

Sydney!

SYD
I know what your saying i think if you look at the top teams in europe it quite plain to see that we need to continue to strengthen.
i would like a lb a worldclass CM and a top striker but im not sure we are going to get them , but fingers crossed
jred

Jred, several journalists on Twitter believe Baines is going to happen eventually. For me that would be one big problem sorted straight away. Hope it happens. I think we have some good young midfielders in Powell, Clevers, Tunners & Petrucci, but three of them are probably not quite ready. We do have Scholes & Carrick, but I think we still need one more midfielder to come in. I wouldn't mind us keeping Nani and buying Lewandowski, but I feel Nani will be sold and I imagine the club would need to swap him with an exciting talent or face angry opposition from the fans.

Moura, Lewandowski, Dembele & Baines would be very nice IMO. But for this to happen Nani, Berbs, Kiko & Anderson would probably need to be sold.

Sydney!

26 Jul 2012 08:59:32
Why jump in at £35m? Why not wait and see what Bilbao accept then enter the race.

Sydney!""
dear mr Sydney
ngiak has seen a lot from you opinions on every post
even penguins have better things to do every hour of every day
ha ha ngiak misses ribbing you
btw if we don't go in at 35 million... the bids will increase
and our usual token 25 million bids will surely be rejected, no?
ha ha ha Manchester united will surely not even come lose to 35 million bidding war
but at least we competed
guess what? the player is greedy for going to the higher salary
and the selling club are at fault for trying to get the highest price
and he did not leave for footballing reasons
ngiak got our list of excuses right?
gan

As a great man from South Park would say............... Umkay.

Sydney!

26 Jul 2012 08:14:29
Rumours have Adebayor agreeing to terms with Spurs, which means City will be clear to pursue Van Persie. Probably inevitable anyways, but if SAF wants him, he'd better move fast and decisively before City get involved.-KG

But city still have, Aguero, Tevez, Dzeko?, Balotelli. They clearly don't need RVP and he would rot on the bench!

Tevez and Dzeko both likely to leave also

Gav

26 Jul 2012 07:53:28
Do any of the eds know if Barca & Munich have made bids for Martinez and of how much??

seen a report that both clubs have only bid 26m euro....

if true then why O why are we not going in there and bidding 35+

Martinez would be a fantastic signing..

Oxred

Why jump in at £35m? Why not wait and see what Bilbao accept then enter the race.

Sydney!

United wont go head to head with barce and munich
jred

Jred, why?

Sydney!

Syd
there are a number of reasons why united wont go head to head with barce or munich there are also a number of reasons why we wont try to sign martinez all of which have been covered numerous times and I cant really be bothered "bantering" about them now.
lets just say i will be amazed if we sign martinez, very surprised if we even try, and will fall off my seat if we wait untill either barce or munich agree a price and then come in with an offer over that
jred

So it's just your opinion then?

Sydney!

Syd
of course its just my opinion.
do you really think we will try to sign martinez and out bid barce and munich with transfer and wages?
jred

If the manager wanted him then yes we would at the very least bid and offer him terms. I do not think Bayern are stronger than us in the market, financially Barcelona are not either, but they do have the luxury players to play alongside and the great location. This wouldn't stop us trying to sign a player though.

Sydney!

Martinez will also be playing with several international team mates and will not have to relocate too far. I doubt we would sign Martinez, but if the manager wanted him he would enter the race whether or not Bayern or Barcelona are in it.

Sydney!

Syd
Do you that as a fact or is that just your opinion
Jred

Okay then Jred how about you bring some evidence to the table that proves "United wont go head to head with barce and munich" and I will bring some evidence that proves the manager does bid for players who he wants to bid for.

You can go first.

Sydney!

Syd
Like I said it is only my opinion , you can't know for a fact that fergy will bid for Martinez
He may want the player but he may not have the cash or he may feel the player is over valued or he may know the player wants to stay in Spain.

You say yes fergy would bid for him if he wanted him but that's just your opinion , you don't know that any more than I or anyone else on this site does.

Jred

Syd
there are a number of reasons why united wont go head to head with barce or munich there are also a number of reasons why we wont try to sign martinez all of which have been covered numerous times and I cant really be bothered "bantering" about them now.
lets just say i will be amazed if we sign martinez, very surprised if we even try, and will fall off my seat if we wait untill either barce or munich agree a price and then come in with an offer over that
jred
That's a copy off my second post have a read of it I'm not going to argue about it because neither of us really knows the truth.
I really don't understand your need to prove people wrong and yourself right
I have said for the last 12 months Martinez would be my first choice signing and I would be chuffed if we got him but I don't think we will ( that's just my opinion)
Jred

If the manager wanted to make a bid for Martinez, then he would make a bid for Martinez. Why wouldn't he? Whether he gets him or not is another story, but if he really wanted to bid, then he would bid.

Saying we wouldn't enter a bid for Martinez just because Barcelona or Bayern are interested in Martinez is utter nonsense. Opinion or no opinion is is nonsense and completely unfounded.

Sydney!

Syd
Of course you think it's nonsense because it differs from your opinion ,
But you can't know for a fact your right it's just your opinion.
Everyone is entitled to the opinion
Mine is I don't think fergy would get into an auction with bayern and barce for Martinez I think if barce really want Martinez there would be little point trying to sign him as he would end up at barce
But for the 5 th time that's just an opinion I may be wrong
You think different and that's fine that your option your entitled to your opinion and your entitled to think your opinion is fact and anyone else is wrong
Like I said I really didn't want to get in to this because I new were it would go
Jred

LOL ;)

Sydney!

26 Jul 2012 06:33:46
Sao Paulo chief Lopes says Man Utd can sign Lucas

Sao Paulo vice-president Joao Paulo de Jesus Lopes says they could still agree a fee with Manchester United over the sale of Lucas Moura.

Lopes insists the door is not closed to Barclays Premier League outfit.

He told Radio Estadao ESPN: "I don't rule out the possibility that in the future there are some sort of negotiations, because we received Manchester [United] with great courtesy and left open the possibility of more talks.

"Manchester [United] came to us and their approach was serious. Other teams expressed an interest for Lucas, but only through the media in their countries."

Well perhaps it will be slightly more difficult now the IPO has pretty much canceled. I hope I am wrong, but I think funds may be slightly more tighter than they would have been had this IPO gone through.

Sydney!

I think the Glazer's might have pulled one over on SAF, tell him there's money go after your targets, get him to publicly back them then pull the rug, so to speak!

Tommy

Tommy, it costs money to file for IPO's, it costs money to hire private bankers to set up the floatation. This wasn't a facade by the owners. We will still have money to spend, but I think it will be less than it could have been had this IPO gone through like planned. We'll see I guess.

Sydney!

26 Jul 2012 01:22:00
As much as I expect to get criticised for this.
Is it me or bebe doesn't look that bad in the recent friendlies.
Opinions eds ?

Bebe was never as bad as one or two made out he was on here, but still not United quality.

Sydney!

"The lad Bebe has come on leaps and bounds....he's like a new signing...."

Sir Alex Ferguson, August 2nd, 2012.

Mark my words.

RED_SKY

RED_SKY, Bebe will be sold this summer. I think you may be being a little over dramatic :)

Sydney!

25 Jul 2012 20:21:46
Hey guys was just wondering about fantasy league codes my team "BermyUnited" is ready to play do I need to make a uniform. Thanks for the help. To avoid any confusion Bermy is what we locals call Bermuda.

Darren-Bermuda

There are a few mate. The one I set up is code:

22720-8435

on fantasy.premierleague.com

TK-Red

25 Jul 2012 22:00:19
I.P.O postponed due to volotile markets. Will this affect our transfer activity?