Manchester United Banter Archive March 26 2012

26 Mar 2012 23:01:59
think the confusion tonight over pogba s contract situation proves that neither the eds or syd are as itk as they would claim to be. {Ed001's Note - Syd has never claimed to be ITK as far as I am aware. I have given all the information I have, none of us editors have ever made any claim to be part of Pogba's inner circle, but we give you what info we can find out. Perhaps you should grow up, no one is making any claims, except you.}

26 Mar 2012 22:34:17
A MESSAGE TO SYDNEY...

Finally everyone can see your a waffler and you talk rubbish, i have the proof, i seem to remember at the start of the season that we would finish 21-25 points ahead of the scousers, Well you waffler, We are now 31 points clear of them, So there you go, LOL :)

26 Mar 2012 22:17:35
I can understand SAF sending the team out to get the result but conserve energy as the team picks itself at this stage of the season, but to do this you have to retain possession of the ball. This was a very disjointed performance, our passing was awful and too many players took SAFs advice too literal. We need to speed up our game and pass the ball quicker to players who are on the move. Only Antonio Valencia did this for us tonight. Hopefully this is a wake up call for next Monday. We can't play like that until the end of the season, hope Sh***y drop a few more points and we stumble over the line. If we give them any encouragement all could be lost. Fingers crossed SAF shakes them up a bit and we come out and give a more positive showing next week.
MANCRED 99

26 Mar 2012 22:10:20
We were so pedestrian today, rubbish performance. If the penalty had been given i wouldn't of been surprised - in all honesty Fulham deserved something.

We were by no means good enough, i just hope Ferdinand and Rooney went off as precausions - if we lose those two we will be struggling.

We really do need reinforcements and if Pogba is off then there is nothing holding us back in going for a top class midfielder. I hope we get Javi Martinez, if we don't and he goes to City then i worry to he honest. If they signed him and Van Persie they'd have a superior team to ours (from midfield onwards):

Youre __ Martinez __ Nasri
Silva___Van Persie___Aguero

That, i must admit, would out do us. Please act SAF.

P.S. - Dont say that United fans are never honest.

RedDevil19

26 Mar 2012 22:03:57
Before the Liverfool fans come in here saying that we always get lucky. Remember Newcastle's penalty against us at OT?

#ags

26 Mar 2012 22:00:40
Epl 2011-12 season

Jonny Evans - 1 goal + 1 assist

Stewart Awful Downing - 0 goals + 1 assist


DesiRed.

26 Mar 2012 21:59:26
As much as Giggs is a legend, anyone who has just watched that game and can say he didn't look lazy is blind. That simply wasn't a good enough performance from him all round I don't think, and it's not the first time I've felt obligated to say it, which is a real shame.

We tend to play, in my opinion, much more fluidly and on the whole better when he isn't in the starting line-up.

TM

26 Mar 2012 21:57:31
thank goodness that's over!

still, another valuable 3 points and hopefully SAF will see that Giggs shouldnt start in CM again (please)

onwards and upwards

on a side note - absolutely gutted to have heard the Pogba news just before kickoff. put me on a real downer, well until our first goal lol. let's hope SAF goes out and gets a top player to replace him in our squad

Gav

26 Mar 2012 21:53:59
have we forgotten how to pass? awful. we miss pace in centre mid so badly. what a dull performance. we took the opposition for granted. and that was pretty much our best eleven. poor. lessons not learned.

26 Mar 2012 21:47:49
is that us out there....... some really sloppy passing from numerous players....

win, draw or dare i say it loss....

hair dryer for them all.........

26 Mar 2012 21:24:34
with Pogba leaving this summer just got even bigger for us. a dm and cm/am a must for me now...

i really hope we have some money as we now need

martinez/m'vila
eriksen/gotze

I liked the look of Anderson and Clevs but both seem to be picking up injuries at the mo.... can we start the season again with those 2 as our main partnership NO...
the other squad players are not good enough to win europe and the youth we all thought would start next season as our hope (pobga & morrison) are gone. Yes we have other promising players but they are not ready now. We now need to invest and INVEST BIG.

Oxred

26 Mar 2012 21:04:54
REGARDING POGBA !! The post further down the page about SAF's quote about people leaving is not true, ive watched every single minute of the bulid up on MUTV and ferguson didnt once say those words about pogba leaving, sounds like a scouser on a wind up to me, Did any of the rest of you actually 100% hear out of fergusons mouth that pogba had agreed to join Juventus? Because it 100% was not on mutv.

26 Mar 2012 20:49:49
There is some really bitter comments of posters here about pogba we offered him a contract which he rejected he obviously thinks he has a better oppurtunity at juventus and they obviously rate him enough to offer him the money he wants. He's not a slave united have taken many young players with money in the past ie. rooney, cristiano, anderson, jones so how come were surprised when other teams take a young player off us. loads of these comments of hope he rots in italy hope a player injures him in training etc. united had the chance at the start of the season to persuade him if not with money with appearances instead he had to watch park giggs rafael rooney play cm his mind was made up already its a shame such a talent is slipping through our fingers by bad man management ah well he dusnt owe us nything wer losing him like we got em there will always be other youth and players
sulei

26 Mar 2012 20:35:58
Why the hell am I reading things like.."I hope Pogba fails at Juve" and other statements along those lines.

Now, I'm sure he's got his reasons for leaving and if it's based on money then he hasn't exactly made a poor choice, he's going to a huge club with great history for a better wage (possibly), albeit in a poorer league.

The fact that you want him to fail because he's not playing for us is disgusting. you don't know his reasons for leaving, none of us do, all we can do is speculate on what we THINK might be the reasons.

I hope he has a great career, I hope he goes on to win everything a player can possibly win, he's a great talent and much like Ravel I would enjoy watching them grow into fantastic players. maybe not as much as I would if they were playing for us but nonetheless I would relish the moment to see them mature.

So, I wish Pogba all the best in the future and I hope for his sake that he's made the right decision.

The Moon.

26 Mar 2012 20:17:34
Giggs in CM instead of Scholes wtf!

Gav

26 Mar 2012 20:13:55
Fergie may as well let Pogba rot in the youth team and not play him in reserve team football.


Italian football isn't that great. He isn't guaranteed to make it either. Italain teams usually don't throw young players into 1st team football so he may find next seaon he'll go out on loan or make a handful of appearance and maybe then he will realise that he got too big for his boots.

I would much prefer another youngster on the bench onstead of Berbatov as he is leaving in the summer too and doesn't add alot to the team and at least gives Fergie a chance to boold another youngster.

On another note would ahve liked Hernandez to have started up front instead of Young on left and Scholes in midfield instead of Giggs

Mad Hatter

26 Mar 2012 20:00:27
Pogba is leaving. Keep your chins up boys. Big summer ahead, and above all else we are United led by One of the greatest managers ever. We are in good hands.

YankSAW

26 Mar 2012 19:38:37
Well, for a match that I thought we'd take with relative ease, I've had to change my mind, the moment I see Giggs in CM I know it's going to be tough. Where's Pogba, this is out of hand now, it seems that things are either very bad, Pogba picked up an injury in training or SAF lied? Well, obviously, I hope we win but I'm growing more and more weary with SAF's half hearted team selections.

Percy

26 Mar 2012 19:34:10
No Pogba tonight? Didn't Fergie say he came off on monday because he was gonna be in action tonight? What's going on..

Cooper

26 Mar 2012 19:26:42
IMO a rather disappointing line up, if Pogba has not picked up a slight knock then is it safe to say he is off? Carrick and Giggs in the middle, cant say im happy with that but oh well.

JWalk

26 Mar 2012 19:24:18
Going for a bit of a prediction tonight, I think it'll be 1-0.

I can see us having a very tough and gritty game, grinding the result as we tend to do at this point in the season, Fulham are a good side so I think it'll be a good game with us grinding out a 1-0.

I'll also go with Rooney to score towards the end of the first half, set up by Valencia.

The Moon.

26 Mar 2012 19:13:30
teams have been announced..no pogba in starting 11 or the bench. Thats odd considering fergie had previously stated pogba would feature. Problems in negotiating a contract? I think so!

26 Mar 2012 19:11:54
NO POGBA :(

26 Mar 2012 18:48:23
Have to say the funniest story of the day was the £84 million dounble bid from Chelsea for Ronaldo and Higuain o i did laugh, where do these journalists dream them up from.

26 Mar 2012 17:43:08
While I respect MUST's motives in their wish for the fans to own Manchester United, I am completely fed up with all the anti-Glazer propaganda that I keep hearing and reading from people in general in comments on Bleacher and articles and posts elsewhere.

In the last week alone, I have lost count of the number of posters on Bleacher who repeat the mantra "United have nothing to spend." And I am astonished at the utter ignorance about the true capability of City and Chelsea to trump them, including the consequences of the Financial Fair Play Rules.

So let me be clear what my prediction is here:

United will have more spending power this summer than any other club in the Premier League and probably in Europe as a whole.

The only real question is whether Sir Alex will use it and if so, who on.

For some perverse reason, people first say that Fergie's hands are tied by the Glazers. Then, when he insists—repeatedly—that he will only spend where he sees value in the market, they still believe his hands are tied, which, given his repeated comments are in the public domain, means they are effectively saying the best and most respected manager ever is lying...

So let's start with the widespread accusation that the Glazers won't let SAF spend money.

First, he spent £50m last summer and would have spent more if either Wesley Sneijder had reduced his wage demands below £250k a week or the agreed deal for Nasri hadn't been trumped by City with a £45k-a-week overbid at the last minute.

Next, the Glazers aren't short of cash anyhow. Read here about the spree at Tampa Bay Buccanneers and the paragraph specifically mentioning the Glazers' spending approval.


Sir Alex's Spending Budget

Sir Alex has no shortage of transfer funds. He was promised all the Ronaldo money and only spent £20m on Smalling and Hernandez.

Last summer, the cash in the transfer budget hit £150m, of which SAF spent only a net £40m, for reasons mentioned above.

Given the interest rate of 9% plus on the parent company's debt, it was a no-brainer for Gill and Ferguson to approve paying off a lump because the manager had no intention of spending in January either.

As the financial results show below, last autumn Sir Alex had £50m available that he hasn't used, and the revenues are throwing off net cash like there's no tomorrow. Furthermore, the Singapore IPO is back on and, because he only needs two or three world class players at most, he will probably not have enough players to spend the cash on for five years or more.

Meanwhile, this summer, all his major competitors will be constrained in the transfer market.

The General Situation in Europe

Have we all forgotten the players' strike in Spain last summer, because of unpaid wages?

There was similar strike action in Italy. At least six of the 18 Spanish La Liga clubs are facing bankruptcy; Valencia have had to sell several world class players and are still nearly bust:

As the article shows, Platini isn't going to back down on FFP. Meanwhile, in Spain, surely the independent TV rights of Real Madrid and Barcelona will eventually be bust open—otherwise they could have no La Liga opponents to play against.


Financial Fair Play Will Happen

Many European Governments, the EC and even David Cameron want FFP to happen. The Rangers debacle has accelerated the momentum. Far too many clubs have been living in fantasy land. The EC last week backed UEFA in a landmark ruling.

Here is a summary of the FFP Rules. In short, "spending cannot exceed revenue from TV rights, gate receipts, competition prize money and sponsorship. Clubs who break this rule face expulsion from European competition."

Let's be clear here. If Abramovich and Mansour withdrew their support for Chelsea and City, irrespective of FFP, they would both be bust...instantly.

There is growing resentment in the game and in political circles about how such clubs can manipulate 'fair' competition and City fans should be particularly scared...


Why Cash is Sir Alex's Trump Card—not Mancini...

We keep being told by uninformed supporters, who believe the hype put out by such as MUST that interest payments are preventing the purchase of players, that Sir Alex cannot compete with City and Chelsea.

Part of the reason is that supposedly Abramovich (worth £11 billion in 2011) and Sheikh Mansour (worth an estimated £20bn) can bankroll almost limitless spending. That's not going to happen. They are already concerned about FFP rules, viz City spending nothing in January.

Even last summer there were warnings of City's spending being limited.

To keep it simple, you can spend as much cash as you want, but transfer fees and the annual value of players contracts still have to be deducted from revenue to determine whether you meet the FFP criteria.

So, if Chelsea and City's hands (and a welter of clubs right across Europe) are tied because they are not making a FFP "profit," not only will Sir Alex not have this problem, but he will also have plenty of cash in a market where we are already seeing rapidly growing signs of financial realism in salaries and transfer fees.

January was, in relative terms, one of the quietest winter windows ever; and United both then and last summer declined to pay Sneijder's wage demands, nor did they feel the need to bid more than £25m.

The Critical Difference Between Cash and Profit

United's current Nike shirt deal is worth £303m for 13 years. This could be doubled in 2013 when it is renewed. AON are paying £80m for four years, and DHL £40m for a similar period to sponsor the training kit. United have made clear they will never sell their ground naming rights. They don't need to.

The City Etihad stadium deal is already being scrutinised by UEFA.

So let's consider a very simple model, because although Chelsea and City could have "unlimited" cash available, they won't be able to spend it.

To determine whether your club will meet the FFP hurdles, simply take total revenue and deduct the following:

the "amortised" cost of the players (that is, the transfer fee divided by the length of the contract);
the annual players salary bill; and
the commercial running costs of the club.
In simple terms, you could use as a proxy whether the club is making a profit or not.

To give a simple example of the impact, let's consider Fernando Torres, Sergio Aguero, Wesley Sneijder and Andy Carroll:

Torres cost £50m for a 5.5-year contract. That's £9.1m a year. His salary is £175k a week, which is also £9.1m a year. Total cost under FFP is £18.2m a year off revenues. No wonder he is rumoured to be available for £20m. (Fergie, sign him up!)

Sergio Aguero cost £35m for a five-year contract and is on £170k a week, so that's £7m plus £9m, i.e. £16m a year.

Wesley Sneijder, even at £25m on a wage of £250k a week would have hit revenues to the tune of £5m plus £13m, i.e. £18m a year. No wonder Tom Cleverley looks better at zero plus £45k a week...

Andy Carroll cost £35m for 5.5 years on a salary of £80k a week, with an annual FFP cost of £6.4m plus £4.2m, i.e. £10.6m.

Manchester United Have No Cash?

According to The Telegraph in late May 2011 (and several other sources), SAF spent £50m that summer and had agreed a fee for Nasri thought to be £35m, with the player agreeing a move on £135k a week until City trumped it at the last minute.

Before the January transfer window, Sir Alex wrote in his programme notes (via the Daily Mail):

I am perfectly happy with the strength of our squad in terms of depth, quality and age range. I will not be swayed by endless tweets and blogs urging the club to get busy in the transfer market next month.

This gives a clear insight into his thinking, including the strong implication that the money is no problem.


Michael Regan/Getty Images
Meanwhile, United are throwing off cash like no other club in England and only two in Europe. Note the cash balance of £50m....

Now, given that they are net-positive revenue generating every single quarter, because of their huge revenues (if you look at the report they had total revenues of £175m in six months, whereas City had only total revenue of £153m in the whole of last year):

And Chelsea had turnover of £222m for their last financial year, not to mention their other massive problems.

And before people cite the Etihad deal they might want to read this seriously worrying report by the Guardian.

Now, it is true that United paid off a big slug of their debt last year, but that was a no-brainer, because the interest rate is nine percent, and Fergie didn't spend more than a third of the £150m that was available. Indeed, net, he still hasn't spent the Ronaldo money...

So given that United will probably generate between £100-150m net cash before transfers, despite the European exit, the choice for Gill is either buy players or pay off the debt. If SAF still doesn't buy the players, what would you do?

Finally, as someone who has floated a company and also prepared what would have been the sixth largest flotation on the UK Stock Exchange, I can tell you that seasonally and because of the market slump last year, the flotation window across the globe has only recently reopened.

United's Singapore float could go ahead in April/June, generating an estimated £500m, which would pay off all the debt and generate even more money for transfers...

Singapore is open for IPOs, viz this report from TODAYonline (there are many other corporate IPOs going ahead in the next few months) and this influential Bloomberg article.

So you make up your own minds, but with United having plenty of cash and no problem meeting the FFP Rules; many clubs across Europe in financial crisis and either having to offload players or not being able to buy without selling (and then having to be realistic with fees); together with the FFP constraints of the big spenders (even Real Madrid and Barcelona will feel the heat), this summer's transfer market could be very, very different...

And Sir Alex could be in the strongest position of all, which was at the heart of my earlier article—i.e. he will only pay up for quality. If any of these players were available at a more realistic fee (or, in Torres' case, out of desperation), he may well give them serious consideration...

From blog today - Cantrubian

26 Mar 2012 15:46:17
Great - right on the target article on the DTelegraphs site today by Chris Bascombe - really nails the situation for the poor deluded liverfools
Mike

26 Mar 2012 14:26:13
Anyone else think we should get like £45 million and buy both Goetze and Kagawa from Dortmund. Great investment and Kagawa is getting better and better.
Then a ball winner and the signing of Pogba and we are looking pretty sexy.
Paul

26 Mar 2012 10:20:38
People on here are criticising Nani and saying that he should be replaced. He is our top assiter, just as many assists as Valencia and more goals. On stats he is our second best player behind Rooney. If you could get a big fee, £30 million or more then i would say go for it. But some of you are saying go for £20 million - rediculous. And to top it off, replace him with an unproven Gaitan of all people. At least with Nani we know he can win us games and when he plays well he is unplayable.

Cast your gaze elsewhere to strengthen the side, Nani isn't going anywhere. I'm sure after one good game when he bangs in a couple everyone will say he is the best thing since sliced bread.

Get behind the lad, not against him.

Its also good to see that SAF as come out and admitted his mistakes in Europe. This is bound to mean that there will be a change come next season. Hopefully we with a couple of additions we can have a run at winning it in what is likely to be either SAF's penultimate, or last season at the helm.

RedDevil19

26 Mar 2012 00:39:37
Holy moly did anyone read moons post on Liverpool comparing there players with barca players ha ha its so funny he had to be having a laugh . Valdes a bad keeper come off it he top class . Abidal no use a very underrated player I think and as for skertal he had a half decent season moon he ain't all tat and Lucas getting into their squad not a chance . Plz say ya were winding them up moon or were u sniffin there scouse butts ..
Cr7 ps New to site long time reader {Ed007's Note - Welcome aboard Cr7.}