Manchester United Banter Archive November 26 2017

26 Nov 2017 23:41:07
I see there's a few trying to get lukkaku banned for kicking out at Brighton player.
And a few big games coming up, Jose will be over the moon.

26 Nov 2017 21:14:50
I've been watching the games closely and what I see is that we are losing the midfield battle repeatedly. But I don't think it's anything to do with either of the midfielders playing well or not but rather with the simple lack of bodies in the center that we have.

A midfield two of Matic and Pogba with wingers like Rashford and Martial who are basically forwards means our midfield gets outnumbered against an opposition with a 3 man midfield and wingers that pack themselves inside.

Having a Mkhitaryan or Rashford as an attacking midfielder doesn't help since he plays further forward. This is why I believe we need to play a 3 man midfield to get more control of the games. Matic is a good defensive midfielder, Herrera is a decent passer of the ball but isn't the kind of player that can pass an opposition to death or pick out a special pass. Having a midfielder like that would allow Pogba more freedom to play further forward instead of having to come deeper to set the tempo of the game. He was most effective with Pirlo and Vidal playing alongside him.

I believe we will benefit from buying someone like a Kroos or even a Modric or Fabregas as a short term fix to the problem. Or perhaps the answer could be a box to box midfielder who can allow Pogba to then sit a bit deeper around the middle of the pitch to dictate the tempo of the game.

I also think we lack a genuine winger in the squad. I can see the impact Salah and Mane have at Liverpool for eg. I can see why Jose wanted Perisic. We get into wide areas but our crossing from the wingers and full backs is just so poor and wasteful. Lukaku is a beast in the air but isn't getting the service he deserves.

So I believe a midfielder, a winger and at least one new fullback are essential for us. In the meantime playing Herrera, Pogba and Matic together might fix the problems with controlling the midfield with an extra body in there and would also allow the likes of Rashford and Martial more license to stay much wider and ahead to support Lukaku.

26 Nov 2017 21:21:35
Our last 3 games have been Basel Newcastle and Brighton. Matic Herrera pogba fellaini should be able to cut it against them .

But I agree for some reason teams are getting at our midfield, teams seem to be going through our midfield .
Has matic gone of the boil a bit?
The 10 or attacking cm needs to do a bit more imo as well.

26 Nov 2017 21:55:20
Jred,

That's disrespectful and condescending to a Champions League team and Brighton who were top 10 when we played them and have played well against most other top teams they've played. These are good teams and have the energy to overrun us in midfield.

You could have a midfield two of the best players in the world but against a packed midfield 5 from a decent opposition they'd still get overrun. Its no surprise that the likes of Barcelona and Real Madrid who usually dominate in midfield play with a 3 in there.

The very fact that we are shipping such a few amount of goals should point to the defensive midfielder Matic doing his job. Pogba looked quite knackered after an hour in the last game which left Matic isolated and it was no surprise that we started controlling the game better after Fellaini came on to add an extra body in midfield which allowed Pogba to move further forward.

Jose's analysis of the game was right. We had too many attacking players and lost control in midfield. The same thing happened to us against Chelsea. Add a midfielder instead of playing 4 up front and allow Pogba to link the midfield with the front 3 is a good solution imo.

Against Basel in the first half we wasted our chances and our crossing has been an issue for a while now.

If we could add Danny Rose in January it would give us width from the left side and then Martial can play a bit more centrally or cut inside to provide another body in the center for Pogba to play one twos with.

26 Nov 2017 22:19:03
Great post redfaith. I agree with that. Just look at Basels credentials over the last number of years in Europe, they have a knack at beating big teams. Bit disrespectful to suggest we should have no problem with them.

26 Nov 2017 22:34:31
Brighton are a well organised team who had a midfield 3 against pogba matic and Mata. Them 3 probably cost more than there team

We had 2 many attacking players? We played with a striker a 10 2 wide men an attacking cm and 2 cm .
We are not playing 4 up front.

Brighton where great but they haven't got 11 good players and ate a different level to United Madrid city barce Munich. That's not disrespectful it's the truth.

Basel might be a champions league team just makes them a good team in the Swiss league . Although there 7 points off the top of the Swiss league at the moment.

Brighton spent 42 mill this summer
Newcastle 38 mil
Basel 723 k

I don't think I'm being disrespectful when I say
"Our last 3 games have been Basel Newcastle and Brighton. Matic Herrera pogba fellaini should be able to cut it against them "
All top international players all tip players non would play for any of them teams .

To be fair we put 4 on Newcastle should of been 5 up at half time against Basel and had a bad day yesterday against a team who played really well.

26 Nov 2017 22:40:10
Red faith how well did young play yesterday?

26 Nov 2017 22:56:33
Seriously, how far have we fallen, when we're not allowed to state that we should be doing better against Basel, Newcastle and Brighton.

26 Nov 2017 23:02:04
How about our forwards pressing quicker and the whole team doing so as a unit?! That will sort this out.

26 Nov 2017 23:08:15
Angle
We should of been 5 0 up at half time pal.

Man United Chelsea spurs barce etc should beat Basel.

Basel are 7 points of the top of the Swiss league . Spent 0.7 mil this summer, there whole 26 man squad cost 40 mil and has 10 internationals I it .
Not sure I Said we should have no problem with them ( your words ) but I do think pogba matic Herrera fellaini should be able to cut it against them.

Amazed how low some fans rate our players?

26 Nov 2017 23:10:27
if Jose selects the team and tactics then i find it a bit odd that he comes out with there were too many attackers. unless that comment was a sly dig at someone else. tactically i thought he got it wrong again yesterday but it seems most teams that played midweek last week didn't play that well.

27 Nov 2017 05:30:51
What has how much brighton spent got to do with tactics? The midfield 3 of Pogba Vidal and Pirlo was bought for a pittance by Juventus for eg. Does that mean they were a bad midfield 3? What did Kante cost Leicester? If Brighton were such a poor team they wouldn't be top 10. Show some respect.

Clutching at straws there pal.

Regardless of cost, most premier league midfielders are of a decent quality and when you play a midfield two with 4 attackers against a packed midfield 5 you are always going to lose control in midfield, especially after a midweek away trip, the effects of which were showing in the legs of a few by the end against Brighton.

Basel, away is a decent Champions league game. We dominated them for a half and got overrun in midfield in the second due to tactics.

Mata was in a midfield 3? What game were you watching? He started on the right side of the front 4, much further up. Only when we started losing control in midfield did Jose move him towards the center later on. Mata isn't a proper energetic CM anyway. He is a slow number 10 who plays as a wide forward sometimes.

If you can't see that 2 against 5 in midfield against a more than decent opposition means getting overrun in midfield there's nothing I can say to you.

Young played well but he doesn't provide the option of a fullback who hugs the byline allowing the winger to cut in and play more centrally. Martial and Young to me seem to get in each other's way, both looking to cut inside and cross. Need a proper left footed left back to get the best out of Martial imo.

27 Nov 2017 07:28:21
My post was a bit of tongue in cheek jred. of course we should be more than well equipped with our squad and budget to handle Basel. Always have a decent squad but we should be having no issues with that sort of team.

27 Nov 2017 07:50:45
We didn't play a midfield 2 it was a 3 .
We definitely didn't play with 4 up front?
It really wasn't 4.2.4 .

Did I say Brighton was a bad team? No I Said pogba matic fellaini Herrera are better players than they have in cm .

Show some respect? I Said pogba matic and co should be able to cut it against them.
Basel are average we should of put 5 on them . That's there level.

Reading your post above it sounds like your having a right dig at Jose to be honest.

Who plays 4-2-4? And doesn't change it .
We lost against Basel due to Jose tactics?

United and Jose are 2nd in the league top of our CL group, fellaini Mata pogba matic Herrera are all top international players. show some respect.

27 Nov 2017 07:52:18
Irrespective of formation, we should not be struggling against Brighton or desperately clinging on for a draw against Southampton. I’ve said it many times, we have very good players who often do not play well. When did Lukaku last have such a long dry spell? We have the players, the Manager needs to get the best out of them consistently.

27 Nov 2017 08:07:51
"Our last 3 games have been Basel Newcastle and Brighton. Matic Herrera pogba fellaini should be able to cut it against them . "

Can't believe the above comment has got your knickers in a twist .
But if you think that's me being disrespectful, well fair enough .

27 Nov 2017 12:29:35
Good post ajh. agreed, he needs to be getting the best out of the players. But also, the players need to get the best out of themselves. A recurring theme since Fergie left is players not playing well enough despite knowing that they are more than capable of better performances. So equally, the players need to do better themselves.

27 Nov 2017 13:17:04
The players need to be held accountable for poor perfomances.

Jose is responsible to a degree but ultimately it is the players who win or lose a match.

26 Nov 2017 19:12:56
Going in to December United have :
Won 15
Lost 3
Drew 2.

Scored 44
Conceded 9.

2nd in the league top of our CL group and still not really hit top gear, which I take as a positive .
Maybe not as bad a team or a season so far as some would like to make out .

26 Nov 2017 19:25:48
Jred

Agreed

It is all about who can get a run going after Christmas.

26 Nov 2017 19:41:06
Redman
As long as we are there or there abouts after the Xmas period . Kick on from there.

26 Nov 2017 20:00:40
We've chased down bigger leads before.

26 Nov 2017 22:58:19
With better teams, Mort. And a freak of nature in charge.

27 Nov 2017 07:52:58
City really don't look like dropping points .
Breaking records left right and centre could end up with a record points haul .
But you never know.

26 Nov 2017 16:51:25
Well that was an interesting 1st half. Come on Huddersfield!

26 Nov 2017 18:00:42
Thought it might of been one of them days for city . Unfortunately not.

26 Nov 2017 12:32:27
How do people think matic is playing at the moment.

26 Nov 2017 12:44:10
Quite well. Not always perfect but ultimately has been extremely steady and dependable, distribution is pretty much always good and covers the right amount of ground breaking up a lot of attacks.

26 Nov 2017 13:00:44
I think our cm has been lacking the last few games . Been losing the battle in there, at times.

26 Nov 2017 13:18:29
Probably why Jose wants another cm.

26 Nov 2017 13:29:00
Angle do you think?
I thought it was down to the issue around Carrick and the wig wanting out .

26 Nov 2017 13:33:34
Matic is a good player in my opinion the best partner you could wish for Pogba. I think the positions we need right now is a 10 of a level above what we have Mata Miki and Zlatan may fill the gap this season but a world class 10 is what would complete this team I have no problems with all other positions Tony and Young can do another season, strikers we have plenty, wingers were ok a 10 from Griezmann Dybola or Fekir or Gomes reaches his level that makes him that player and were contenders for everything best gk top attackers great midfield good defenders experienced wing backs a world ckass 10 and we on to the next level and on par with Barcelona or city or PSG.

26 Nov 2017 13:53:42
Carrick and wig aren't starters. I think he wants to have someone else in beside matic giving pogba more free rein. Savic.

26 Nov 2017 14:16:07
Mctomney is maybe the player coming in for Carrick or Felliani, really Matic is already Carricks replacment.

26 Nov 2017 14:17:43
It's usually Pogba and Matic Vs three opposition midfielders, sometimes more when their width becomes more narrow. So our midfield is usually swamped. Fellaini is a decent option, but he's not as mobile as Jose would like. Jose will want a robust, busy box to box midfielder as soon as he can get one. Carrick will retire, Fellaini leave and we'll need Perreira to return and buy another central midfielder. McTominay will probably go out on loan depending on certain complexities.

Don't know much about this Savic lad who Jose wants. Is he a box to box midfielder?

26 Nov 2017 14:25:13
Matic has dropped his level a little since he first came. I love Matic and Pogba together in there. Pushing Pogba forward and played, say Herrera, is too negative for me.

Ibra at 10 could be very interesting. He can hold up the ball as well as Fellaini, he can flick the ball on for the 3 strikers and has good passing in his locker. He will also score goals from long shots, second striker support, set plays.

Issue I think Jose is raising is that the midfield can be overrun. Mata or Martial played in the 10 and the midfield looked exposed. But I think Ibra has more presence and be more of a defensive influence.

Miki early season was good in there, so he may come good again.

I have only seen Y. Tube videos of savic, so not a good judge, but the little I saw reminded me of Zaha. Undoubted talent, but lots of flash stuff that doesn't have any end product. Although having said that, ed1 seems to rate him.

Perrera return is another option.

Downside of changing your shape for the big teams is that the players are less used to positioning, so it stifles those games. I Don't think 433 works with Lukaku and Ibra in the team.

26 Nov 2017 14:30:44
I cannot help but think Pogba in Mikhitaryan's position could work, but we'll need someone to do the miles behind him. Matic and another.

26 Nov 2017 16:01:18
Syd
So Jose doesn't want fellaini .
A busy box to box cm, is that not pogba .
Did we not want griezmann to play 10 with pogba box to box and matic?


Mangers always want players, you don't get to a point when they say right don't need any more I'm happy .

By the way savic looks a good player defensively very good passing is average but the lad is only 22 so time to improve.

26 Nov 2017 16:09:44
What happened to Herrera everyone's favourite player last season?

26 Nov 2017 16:14:38
I think Jose wants Fellaini. Even more so because we are lacking robust central midfielders.

Pogba is a busy box to box midfielder sure. But what happens when Pogba is injured? What happens if Pogba and Matic get injured?

We need another midfielder, perhaps two, hence the reason Jose has been looking to add a midfielder or two.

Not sure Griezmann would have been bought to play number 10 position. Probably left of a front three. Lukaku central. Who knows?

26 Nov 2017 16:21:13
Jred - The Pogba remark was more about a possibility more than what I suspect will happen. I think Pogba has all the attributes to play as a number 10. He has everything. I wouldn't be at all surprised if that's where he'll end up one day.

26 Nov 2017 16:28:37
Pretty sure ed Said griez would of played 10 not really a winger these days .
Herrera?

Carrick Herrera pogba fellaini matic plus the young ones
If we play 4231 a formation Jose uses a lot you could prob add Mata Miki and ibra in there as well .
Carrick will need replaced by the looks of it and fellaini if he leaves .
But that's for the next year this year is about the players that we have.

26 Nov 2017 16:48:02
Yes it's a weak selection if we have injuries. No wonder Jose is in the market. Bit more steel in midfield needed for when we sure up the midfield. Fellaini was meant to be leaving in the summer, but due to the club's failings he was retained.

26 Nov 2017 17:01:27
He can play 10 but he has all the attributes to run a game from the middle imo .
Watching hazard and couthino yesterday was an example of what United need behind a striker imo .
Been trying to find that player for a while imo .

26 Nov 2017 17:08:34
Syd
Every team will struggle with injuries.

It's back to my point below, how is such a poor squad 2nd in the league .
You would think we where mid table by some of the post on here .

Maybe our players are a bit better than some realise. No wonder our fans get a bad name at times.

26 Nov 2017 17:26:40
I don't think we have a poor squad, but I can definitely see the frailties. So can the manager, hence the interest for certain players in certain positions.

Coutinho plays left of a midfield three, behind a front three.

26 Nov 2017 17:31:55
I think Matic has been doing a good job all season. The issue has been with Pogba out injured our midfield has lacked dynamism and creativity. Neither are things Matic is reknown for. So its a bit harsh to judge him on that. Midfield isn't about one player but the whole of midfield. I think we need more quality in depth in midfield, which it appears Jose feels the same as he wants another midfielder.

26 Nov 2017 17:34:08
Every team have frailties syd that's football no such thing as the perfect squad .
Coutinho links up front and back syd don't get caught up with formations that just where the players stand for kick off.

26 Nov 2017 17:38:53
I though matic and pogba where pretty average yesterday shaps .
Mid week our cm where very good first half poor second imo .

26 Nov 2017 17:44:02
Watch out shaps, you'll be told to stop with that rational critique. Doing that much mean you think our midfield is crap 🙈

Jred, the stuff you spew at times because posters actually give their opinion on things, lol.

26 Nov 2017 17:45:26
I'm not talking about the squad, I'm talking about frailties in our team. The first 14 players. You think Jose wants players like Perisic and Rose to improve the squad? No he wants to improve the first team.

You can always tinker with a team and want to improve areas, but Jose started the season lacking the players he wanted. Those positions are where we are struggling with now.

26 Nov 2017 18:44:23
the position we need is 10 Syd Tony and Young have played at a good level this season yes Jose probably does want players like Rose and Ivan but the team could do with a playmaker more than anything else imagine Griezmann Mertins Dybola or Ferkir I know Miki is ment to be that player but he needs to move back to the right or be sold imo.

26 Nov 2017 18:48:09
Syd
Lacking 1 player that's all.
And who's to say he would of been great . Perisic might of been amazing or like when we bought Miki or lindelof he might of been average .

Nearly everyone had it down between us and city this year and that looks like how it's going to turn out .
2 good squads you see, as well as city are playing there are a few players in there that I wouldn't call amazing.

Pep like Jose and every other manager in the league will continue to buy players . That's football .

Always amazed how some are more bothered about buying players building a team that actually supporting the team and enjoying it .

26 Nov 2017 19:04:19
RG - We are lacking in that area too I agree. I like Miki and when he's breaking he's very good in that position, what he lacks for me is he struggles to retain possession. Hold up the ball and distribute it well in the final third. I don't think we need to sell, just need his place contested with competition. There were a lot of areas needing improvement, I think after the summer window we will have a far more Jose 'like' team.

26 Nov 2017 19:10:31
I'm enjoying the team and supporting it, but I can still see the frailties like our manager and I want them solved ASAP like our manager. Is that okay with Sir Jred?

26 Nov 2017 19:19:19
And do you seriously believe Jose only wanted one more player in the summer. Despite what he says. We tried signing more players than just Perisic. But we aren't Man City or PSG, we cannot do all of our business in two summers. We cannot go and buy four fullbacks because we need four fullbacks. We couldn't even get one fullback. Jose has had to be patient building his team, something he's bummed about.

26 Nov 2017 19:30:52
So how many players do you think we will sign in Jan syd 5, 6 maybe 7 .

I would like to see Herrera get back to the form he showed last season along side pogba making the step up to world class that we have seen with KDB this year .
If a couple on the young lads could break in it would be a bonus and fantastic if rash and martial could make the step up .
Every bit as good as sterling and sane imo .
Lukaku with a bit of look should break 25 goals .

In the summer we might buy 3 or 4 imo as we always do . Nothing me you or anyone else thinks will change that .

But I will worry and look forward to next season, next season .

26 Nov 2017 19:57:30
Maybe I've been spoilt by Fergie or maybe having 2 kids to look after has changed my view of the game (as can't watch it in peace) but saying enjoy it doesn't wash with me.
The last 7 games apart from Newcastle have been absolutley boring to watch.
Before anyone tells me we are 2nd and doing well in all comps, I am still allowed my opinion and were are awful to watch at times. I wanted Jose in as well!
It Fergies fault for winning everything and doing it in style but i just didn't enjoy yesterdays game and found it boring.

26 Nov 2017 20:22:24
I don't think we'll sign anyone. However I'm sure Jose would like Rose and one other. I just think January is hard time to do business.

26 Nov 2017 20:57:03
I think he has been or most consistent and best player so far this year alongside ddg.
No real highs or lows you get what you expect more often than not imo.

26 Nov 2017 21:17:07
Ken
Over the season he has done well but like a few not so good last few games imo .
Average yesterday, and when he come on against Basel average, quiet against Newcastle and the game against Chelsea.
I would of though it was the Chelsea type games we bough him for but fabergas run the midfield that day .

Done very well this season matic at the moment?

26 Nov 2017 04:10:03
{Ed's Note - we have posted a new article entitled, Premier League Match Previews Sunday 26th November 2017