Manchester United Banter Archive October 26 2012

 

Use our rumours form to send us manchester united transfer rumours.


26 Oct 2012 22:59:56
Ed do you see Fabregas moving from Barca or is the lack of games stuff he talks about not as big an issue as the papers say?

Dan

Believable0 Unbelievable7

26 Oct 2012 22:32:14
Has anyone watched Bayern Munich in the league? 8 games 24 points and 24 gd!

Believable3 Unbelievable2

After Sunday Chelsea will have 25 PTs from 9 games ;) not that it matters so early into the season

Agree8 Disagree11

26 Oct 2012 19:30:25
James from Porto looks like a good edition but I think sneijer and Kevin strootman will be more likely forget wanyama and get Vidal

Believable0 Unbelievable16

Sneijer? Ah how I have missed the misspelling of his name.

GDS

Agree2 Disagree4

3 disagrees, brilliant!

GDS

Agree2 Disagree1

26 Oct 2012 17:31:02
Saying it now cus we looking good, if we win the champions league, fergie will leave, that's what he's waiting for! Personally I think David Moyes to replace him! And we should sign one player.... Cabeye! Then we will be unbeatable!!

Believable3 Unbelievable19

Moyes? God no, total lack of ambition from the club if we sign him as manager what with Guardiola available, Mourinho more than likely available and the possibility of Klopp available.

Agree14 Disagree3

That's not me but just dreamboats not enough IMO.

Jono

Agree4 Disagree0

He is a decent manager but I don't think United standard.

19-20 MUFC

Agree5 Disagree1

26 Oct 2012 15:48:21
Wanyama rejected a new contract offer at Celtic

Believable5 Unbelievable1

26 Oct 2012 15:02:24
Here in my opinion are the two teams for Sunday and the key battles and why I chose which player...

-----------------Cech-------------

Ivanovic---Luiz---Cahill---Cole

----------Ramires--Mikel--------

Mata---------Oscar------Hazard

---------------Torres--------------

VS

Rooney-------RVP------Valencia


----Anderson------Cleverley----

--------------Carrick---------------

Evra--Evans--Ferdinand--Rafael

--------------De Gea-----------------

Midfield Battle:- The midfield of Ando, Cleverley and Carrick are going to be key to us getting out of Stamford Bridge with a result on Sunday. I feel Scholes would have played had I not seen what such a good job Oscar did on Pirlo in stopping him playing and I feel he would just be marked out of the game. Carrick will sit on Oscar and protecting the back four whilst Anderson and Cleverley will pick up Mikel and Ramires. If we win this battle then we are well in the game.

Goalkeepers: De Gea has had a shaky couple of games in the red of manchester, his shot-stopping is first class and as Sir Alex said today "he is a goal line keeper" any shot I don't have problems or worried about him making a mistake, it's just any time a cross/set piece comes in I'm looking away everytime because of how sure he is going to make a mistake. Cech has been in top form for Chelsea and stopped an embarassement in Ukraine in mid-week. Last year this game was a turning point for De Gea and lets hope it starts his season again.

Chelsea's Trio- Their three of Oscar, Hazard and Mata are on terrific form and with everyones eyes on Oscar and Hazard at the start of the season it has been Juan Mata to come out on top and steal the show at the start of the season. The only positive for the fullbacks is the only one of the three to really run at them is Hazard whereas the other two are more intricate passes trying to cut defenses open. Stop these, we win the game.

All in all I think it is important for us to start strong, an early goal if possible but survive the first 25 minutes and then we can start to cause Chelsea problems. They will come out fast to try and score against us first like everyone else seems to and it's important that we don't let this happen as we can't keep having to come back from behind.

My prediction: 2-2 Ivanovic, Hazard and RVP, Rooney... De Gea penalty save at 0-0

RedKnight

Believable3 Unbelievable4

I would not expect Anderson to start. Plus Rooney is wasted out on the left, especially because Ivanovic looks suspect against quick players. A much better strategy would be to drop Rooney into a 3-man midfield with Carrick and Cleverly, and play Nani on the left (I would say Young but for his lack of game time). Chelsea's attacking players often leave the full backs isolated and our best hope is have quick wingers who can cause them problems.

Having said that, I fully expect Scholes to start, and possibly even Giggs.

Danny Pughnited

Agree2 Disagree6

Agree with you, Scholes can come later on, but we need to match their mid field, i personally would like to see Anderson but fergie might go with Fletcher.

Desired.

Agree4 Disagree2

How about:

----------DDG
Rafa--rio--Evans--Evra
-----Carrick-Fletch
--Clevs---------Rooney
------Chicho-Rvp

Very tight and compact with clevs and Rooney changing positions to allow for an almost 4-3-3 when we break?

Jono

Agree5 Disagree2

Danny, good shout about Nani. Nani always causes Ivanovic problems and he always gets him booked. I also agree that Scholes may start.

Sydney!

Agree3 Disagree1

Maybe we will see giggs, scholes, carrick combination again. Sad to say so.

Agree1 Disagree1

26 Oct 2012 14:44:05
Shinji Kagawa is facing three to four weeks on the sidelines because of a knee injury.

DeLaRusso

Believable2 Unbelievable1

26 Oct 2012 13:41:46
Sydney, Ed anyone else. Is it true we bought ourselves out of the DHL sponsorship because we feel we can get more money? And is the Chevvy contract worth £327million?

Believable0 Unbelievable2

Chevvy deal i heard 357 million over 7 year not sure about d h l -------------------phil

Agree1 Disagree1

It is true yes. The Chevrolet / General Motors deal is work £559m.

rpc

Agree1 Disagree1

It is about 350 m pounds over 7 years thats roughly 50 m per year

Agree2 Disagree1

No, the DHL is a separate sponsorship deal. I think you mean did we buy ourselves out of the Audi sponsorship? The answer again is no, the Audi deal ends in 2014 and the Chevrolet deal starts in 2014, however Chevrolet will boost our current Audi sponsorship by £11m for 2012 and 2013. The Chevrolet deal is a monster and will not be repeated by any other club in the world. It's worth £45m a year from 2014.

Sydney!

Agree0 Disagree4

No I meant did we buy ourselves out of the DHL training sponsor deal? I read they are still our global logistics sponsor but nour our training kit sponsor

Agree0 Disagree0

Sorry, just heard about the buy out of DHL. It seems they are pulling out of the DHL training kit sponsorship as they have a bigger one lined-up. Perhaps this has something to do with the new Nike deal that will be negotiated from February. Rumour has it that the deal could be worth a billion whether that's dollars or sterling I do not know. I guess Nike could well be the training kit sponsor?

Sydney!

Agree0 Disagree2

Possibly, someone else mentioned to me it was part of the chevy deal and General Motors was going to be the training kit sponsor

Agree0 Disagree0

No name, very possible mate. It can only be part of the Chevy deal or part of a Nike one IMO. I would say it is probably the Chevy deal due to it being so large.

Sydney!

Agree0 Disagree0

26 Oct 2012 16:08:42
Does Ed2 have any knowledge on this subject?

Agree0 Disagree0

No such a thing the chevy deal is worth $559 over 7 years which works out to $80 us a year. The kit is not part of the deal and the buy out is part of new bigger deal being announced whether it is part of the new Nike deal or not remains to be seen. It is estimated that the Nike deal might be in the region of $80 Million a year for 10 years.

Shahram

Agree0 Disagree0

26 Oct 2012 11:44:37
I think the problem with the diamond formation, is that we lack the players to offer the width. I am a big fan of the formation, when played correctly, with the correct personnel, that means we need an out an out denfensive mid, vidal, Bender, wanayama, tiote, tunners. we then need two cm who also have the capabilities to play on the wing as well as more narrow.
The only midfield getting joy from this formation is cleverly as he has the capabilities to play on the wing as well as in the middle. Kagawa can't play on the wing as he hasn't got the pace or strength and is such a waste playing him out of position. We really do need someone, like Goetze who has that capability of excelling in the middle as well as on the wing. we then have to let kagawa stick to his preferred attacking mid role to prosper, at the moment he cant get the connection he needs with the strikers.
However what do you do with Rooney can he function with a partner up top with him? At this moment in time i think we can only do the diamond against less challenging teams and away from home, as we don't have the players yet to play the formation properly. we should use the traditional 4-4-2 untill we can asses what players are available, but i do believe there is a couple lads in the youth that could excel at this formation.

aaallj5

Believable3 Unbelievable3

26 Oct 2012 10:44:06
I know this is not going to go done well but been looking through the clubs financial this morning.

I have no problem with our financials and for those who are doom and gloom merchants about our future, I have to completely disagree and believe whilst the debt might seem large but comparative to revenues and forward earnings and revenue streams we are in very good shape.

I am also inclined to believe that our early exits from champions league and the FA cup might have been the reason for the listing as it reads like the club were banking on higher income from a deeper run in those competitions and getting knocked out so early was not expected.

I am disappointed that we did not use the listing income completely to pay down more debt or invest in more players but I guess that is what happens when you have six siblings who are owners and might not see eye to eye on issues.

All in All I am personally very confident that we will continue to be the greatest club in the world and compete at the highest level with the occasional disappointing year in there.

Shahram

Believable3 Unbelievable4

And........ cue KLOOT
Chris the REDman

Agree10 Disagree0

Shahram, explain to us why paying tens of millions of pounds every year purely to service a debt does not worry you? Please tell us why you think it's Ok for the Glazers to also pay themselves tens of millions of pounds for a club that they bought with a loan...that the club has to support. Tell us what our net spending has been over the last 5 years - without the huge profit we made on Ronaldo we would be in serious trouble. The Glazers bought this club with a mortgage, they are taking millions out every year, and as soon as they think it is valued highly enough, they will flog it to the highest bidder. I'm sure you're committed to the club but you are deluded if you think the club is not losing out due to the Glazers ownership.

AJH

Agree4 Disagree0

Chris you know what I am going to say. This Shahram character is just perfect for Glazernomics. He sees us no more than a product to be traded round the world. I love the bit where he says our debt may seem large. Oh so really it is an optical illusion and really its only small.. Imagine you owned a house and had no mortgage then someone came along bought your house by taking out a loan and then made you pay off his debt whilst he put in nothing. Did he really say we could compete at the top level? Has he seen our midfield? On a plus side he has left his name so the hospital will know he is safe. I AM KLOOT

Agree6 Disagree1

Kloot you are a stakeholder, the glazers are shareholders. Very big difference when it comes to ownership. I would be interested to know how much they've taken out of the club minus the average cost of dividend payments compared to the amount of income brought in as a direct results of glazer 'actions'. You can forget about transfer fees as they are effected by external influences, so the previous calculation would theoretically give weight either for or against the glazer ownership.

Although, this topic is boring. In a similar to which it might get boring to constantly banging your head against a brick wall. As such I am officially opening a charity, with the main objective of finding kloot a mrs.kloot. donations welcomed and very much needed!

Tetrahydro

Agree1 Disagree4

Gee Tetrahydro, thanks for explaining it so clearly. I have previously made the point that any shareholders would more than likely take dividends. However, the issue with the Glazers is that they bought the club with someone else's money which they funded by taking millions out of the club. Putting the dividends argument aside, talk me through that one then - servicing a debt by using money that would be better spent buying new players or keeping ticket prices down. You may find it boring, I find it disgraceful.

AJH

Agree2 Disagree0

Guys before you start throwing stuff, no one is denying that the club was bought through a highly leveraged transaction. I did not say I approve of the glazer and only pointed out that our financial position going forward is not doom and gloom and the commercial side of things is going to be quite significant in the coming years and will enable us to compete at the highest level and yes pay down our debt.

This idea that the glazers have no right to take money out is quite childish as they own the club.

The message is we are not going broke and are in good shape going forward and Kloot thank you I am safe and will always be a supporter of the club.

Shahram

Agree0 Disagree0

26 Oct 2012 09:58:29
Kagawa out for 3-4 weeks

Believable7 Unbelievable0

26 Oct 2012 09:27:55
Oh god. no no no no noooooooooo.

Kagawa injured for 3-4 weeks.

God damnit.

Believable9 Unbelievable1

26 Oct 2012 06:47:22
Just read johndenton's review of our team/squad. Short, succinct, and pretty damn accurate. A rationale view of where we are. Nthe debate was abut whether we ae better now than when we won the league 2 years ago. I'm with John, we were not a great team 2 years ago and are still in transition. Bear in mind we should of / almost did win it last year...it would have summed up how poor the PL currently is. I also agree that we have lost our swagger. In all the time I have been going there have only been a couple of occasion went eh football was really poor - a spell under Sexton, and the early years under SAF. I want to be entertained and for the last few years, I rarely am.

AJH

Believable8 Unbelievable4

Have you not been this season then?

16 goals in the last 3 games at old Trafford. Not sure what you are after really for entertainment. Do you mean you want us to win by loads of goals? Because that's not what football is about. I have been entertained this season, much more so than the last 2 years.

GDS

Agree6 Disagree5

Ditto GDS
nov00

Agree2 Disagree1

Entertained ? the only game we looked comfy in was wigan,fulham posed problems,on another day galatasary would of turned us over,spurs we loked good 2nd half when they sat back on a 2 goal lead,the mighty stoke who couldnt find the net before they played us and went 2.0 up and tues when we got out of jail.only if your a sadist is that called entertainment.
johndenton

Agree4 Disagree0

John,

Stoke definitely didn't go 2-0 up mate not sure where that came from.

So you are only entertained if we are comfortable in games, but you fell asleep against Bayern in 99, shame, you missed a great ending.

I don't really see entertaining as winning games, if we were discussing our ability to finish teams off and our inability to defend then your points are correct, but we are discussing how entertaining the games have been, and the last 3 have been some of the most entertaining in the last 3 years.

GDS

Agree0 Disagree2

The team is playing well.just that we concede silly goals.the team will only get better.we you fans stop critizising the team.is like some fans want united to fail even without trying.we cannot always play beautiful football with all the teams.this is the epl and no team is small.every team fights so hard unlike spanish league.so stop complaining.we are second in the league with defenders injuries.stop slating the team for christ sake.we cannot score loads of goals and play fantastically every match.a win is a win

Agree0 Disagree2

GDS

The goals are misleading. We have been one paced and lacking in creativity so far. It you enjoy watching United over the last few years then you are easily pleased. We have struggled against Fulham, Stoke, Braga, hardly top teams are they. How about last year, with the European and League Cup embarrassments. It may be we are still in transition and still building - SAF seems unsure what his best team / formation is, but we used to be the most entertaining team to watch. No longer...

AJH

Agree4 Disagree0

GDS - I don't think he means more goals necessarily, just the swashbuckling, cavalier attacking style that had neutrals admitting they would pay good money to go watch us. If the goals come, so be it.

I've watched some of our 3/4 goal wins this season, and tbh, a lot of our 1-0 wins back in the 90s/00s were much more entertaining. In fact so were some of our defeats!

StevieK

Agree4 Disagree0

AJH,

I have said we haven't been great for 3 years and we have been pretty dull, but this season I have been more entertained than I have for a long time. I have come to learn that no matter what's happens people will complain. We could win the treble again and it wouldn't be good enough because of something the glazers will have done. I am enjoying the games this season and feel my season ticket was well worth the money, is that such a crime?

GDS

Agree0 Disagree0

26 Oct 2012 07:33:49
I was thinking about Rio Ferdinand might not be here next season? He'll turn 34 next month and he's salary i quite high. And i don't think he's willing to cut his wages that much in his next contract.

What do you think guys?

Moen#7

Believable4 Unbelievable0

If he cuts his wages by half, he will get a year extension, if he doesn't then he will not be offered a new contract, but i reckon he is settled in Manchester, and loves the club so will be offered a post on the coaching side.
I also see Vida going if Anzhi over 15 mill, which i want be to worried about as i think we all know it is difficult to come back from injury at that age.
However this is what the squad needs, it needs a clear out to end the transition, we will not come out a transition until the likes of giggs, rio, evra and Scholes go, all fantastic players but the ball has to be passed on now.

aaallj5

aaallj5

Agree3 Disagree0

26 Oct 2012 00:12:33
If we want to play the diamond, wouldn't Vidal and Goetze complete it?

_________De Gea
Rafa___Small___Vida___New LB
___________Vidal
_____Goetze_____Cleverley
__________Kagawa
___Rooney__________RVP

Not a team I would like to play against.

G.A.G.U.S

Believable17 Unbelievable5

Dream team

Shahram

Agree0 Disagree1

I would doubt we would buy those 2 players.

19-20 MUFC

Agree0 Disagree0

Love the players acquired however I would line up differently.
__________De Gea
Rafael__Smalling__Vidic___Baines?
_______Vidal____Cleverley
Gotze______Rooney____Kagawa
____________RVP
Players can drop into midfield if we are getting outnumbered and players can stay out wide if we aren't
The Red Manc

Agree0 Disagree0

25 Oct 2012 23:39:53
I have only one problem with your post, but it's one I have a problem with in a lot of posts. What makes everyone think that Giggs will be a good coach/manager? Awesome player but I don't think he has the tactical awareness or the footballing brain to make a great coach/manager. Scholes would be a far better option in my opinion, he has a much better grasp!

Percy

Percy mate when it comes to players becoming managers it seems that the great footballers rarely become great managers yet the players who maybe don't hit the highs as players tend to become better managers. Look at Wenger Mourinho and our own Sir Alex for example or even manager of the moment Jurgen Klopp.

Then look at Keane Ince and Robson these guys were obvious candidates to become top managers if their playing career had anything to go by.

There are three things you need to be a top manager.

Tactical awearness, this can be taught to even the most simple of players/managers if they want to learn it. So whether or not Giggs is currently a tactical genius currently means little if he is willing to learn.

Ability to inspire players, Giggs clearly has this. He's been vice captain for more than ten years and has rallied the troops on several occasions. He also has that aura great players have.

Lastly is decision making, this is something which gets better with age. Has Giggs got it? Only one way to find out.

Giggs may or may not become a great manager but the only way we'll find out is if he is given the chance, I think a spell with the youth team would benifit him and set him on his way. It done wonders for Solskjear and set him on his way.

The main reason i felt it would be good to put Giigs in charge of the youth was because he doesn't offer anything on the pitch anymore and i feel promoting Warren Joyce to become Sir Alex's assistant would be for the best of the first team as Phelan doesn't seem upto it.

It was my way of juggling the balls to get the best outcome.

Shappy

Believable11 Unbelievable5

Shapps I would add a few bits to that:

Ruthlessness, cunning (media wise especially), very good man management nowadays and ability to see whats in front of him.

Jono

Agree1 Disagree0

Giggs as SAF replacement - hilarious.....maybe Becks can be his number 2?

Agree1 Disagree3

26 Oct 2012 10:54:09
Learn to read no name, I never once said Giggs should take over from Sir Alex, I said Giggs should move to manage the YOUTH team so Warren Joyce could become Sir Alex's ASSISTANT manager. I was merely saying Giggs could become a good manager in the future, but he needs to learn alot first.

I'd agrre Jono that there are other things needed to be a top top manager but there are very few who possess all of those qualities. And those that do have their flaws that need to be considered as well.
Shappy

Agree5 Disagree1

I would rather have Solskjaer than Giggs.

19-20 MUFC

Agree2 Disagree0