Manchester United Banter Archive September 26 2013

26 Sep 2013 22:07:34
Further to Kagawa threads earlier is the issue we are not playing the right system? Young Nani and Valencia (sorry Tony ) simply aren't good enough and Januzaj and Zaha are seemingly not trusted enough for regular action. Why then are we persisting with a system, 442 or 4411 that demands hardworking wingers on both flanks? Neither Welbeck or Kagawa are effective as out and out wingers either which makes the preferred style / system more odd.

I've nothing against wing play obviously but we do not posses players with enough class to be fully effective in a 442.

I'd hoped signing of Kagawa and Rooney desire / insistence on playing up front would mean a return to a 2008esque fluid front 3 of RVP Rooney and Kagawa.

If not then please DM give Zaha and Januzaj a chance on the wings in your 442 ahead of Young and Nani who've NEVER shown their United class and Valencia who's sadly been MIA for a while now :(

I'd like to see moyes use a bit more imagination and use a system which plays to the strengths of the squad and minimises the weaknesses.

I was impressed how Rogers adapted his tactics to best suit the players he had available with an innovative 3 4 1 2. hopefully Moyes can show the same level of original thought.

the key factor for me is how to best use kagawa, Rooney and rvp together. I'd like see 4 3 1 2 with the width coming from the fullbacks. evra, buttner, Rafael and Fabio are all attacking fullbacks and we should make the most of that. the three in midfield can protect the back four when the full backs go forward and the numbers in midfield make up for the lack of quality.

c'mon Moyes, show us your not Roy hodgson in disguise

Moyes does not do imagination. He does grit, fighting and hard work. His teams have never played with flair.
So I think we're never going to see that at United for as long as he's manager.
Hence his reluctance to use Kagawa, Zaha. He would rather play Young, who will run all day doing sweet fa.

Nomidfield, it's a bit early to say IMO. I think Moyes had to play a certain way at Everton to achieve what he did with the resources he had available. Otherwise they would have been Wigan.

What I'm saying is now we will see whether Moye's is good enough to change his tactics to suit a very different situation at Utd and whether in doing that he will pick a system which best suits what he now has at his disposal.

even if its just for this season until he brings in more players and can change it to something else.

If he dogmatically carries on using the same system as at everton, even if its not suitable, we'll know we have a dud.

Also, I was just wondering what Guardiola might have done because the current utd squad patently aren't suited to playing his brand of football. Would he have changed his system to suit the players or would he have deployed a possession based strategy with players who can't keep possession? He probably would have bought the requisite players over the summer so it wasn't an issue.

26 Sep 2013 21:53:47
wasn't so happy to fullfill any role the team needed and stuck to his guns to be played in his best position, would he now be a better player?
Shappy
I think this is what he had started to address this summer I don't think he wanted to move to Chelsea for more cash I think it was about his role in the team

I think ure in love with Rooney ;-) man crush?

Jred

Chlesea would have paid him the same wages he was on, the only financial gain he would have had from it was "the number of years he would be on that salary" .

Deeps.

And you know this Chelsea wage offer how exactly, Deeps? Hope you didn't read it in one of the same rags that made poor Rooney look bad in 2010 ;-)

Yes Stevie, the same rags that tell you that Rooney is Lucifer.

I will wait till how far in the season you close your eyes and dismiss his performances as "ordinary" ;) Always remember its never too late to come to the bright side LOL

Deeps.

26 Sep 2013 20:21:30
watching Athletic

We don't need to look to far so many good players. Ibai Gomes(Winger) looks great, herrera very good and sussieta(winger) very good.

Don't anyone know if beside herrera we have any interest in the other 2 players or which other clubs are interested.

Had to suffer with them but they came through. Great to watch so much creativity and energy in that team. Back unto 4th in La Liga, was hoping they would have a so so year and would be able to pick up some players.

Ibai Gomes who's contract is up this summer makes all our wingers look like dogs hit. Eds anyone know what is his situation and if we have an interest.

I agree, watched the game also. Gomez, Susaeta and Herrera were the stand out players. Muniain isn't half bad either.

Let's buy Bilbao then.

Nick86

They are loaded with young very technical and fast players and if you came up with the right offer you would get them. Gomes, If you like wingers who can dribble and cross with both feet and high quality stuff this guy is outstanding.

He had a bad injury in 2010/2011, can't remember exactly and was out something like 1 year and was just finding his feet last season but looks like he is back in full flow. He is only 23 and if it means buying 2 players from Bilbao what's wrong with that.

I would take 5 or 6 players from their team any day over 5 or 6 supposedly starting 11 of ours, remember what they did to us a couple of years ago.

26 Sep 2013 20:13:29
Just wondering what the eds think of Rooney being Captain against liverpool, Do ye think he should have gotten the captaincy of should it have been given to someone else? {Ed007's Note - As you know I'm a fan of Rooney's but in all honesty I don't think it is that important who wears the armband. There are pros and cons for every player to be named captain but if I was pushed I would like to see Phil Jones lead out the team. Behind Rooney he is my favourite Utd player right now, I was delighted when Utd signed him. Surely he has all the attributes and potential to be captain material in the future.}

Thanks for the reply Ed, Much appreciated

26 Sep 2013 17:36:52
There are lots of good points raised both for and against giving kags a regular starting spot.
IMO Moyes should not build a team around Kagawa as we do not have the players here to compliment kagawas obvious talents. therefore its better not to play him rather than try to fit a square peg into a round hole. in a position that he can not play,,, I don't think RVP would make a decent left back so we don't play him there. kags is not a left winger in a 442 so don't play him there

The only people to benefit from giving buttner an extended run in the team will be the opposition he is way out of his depth and a complete liability.

Young should be suspended and fined under the trades description act for impersonating a footballer.

Great Post and love the last part LMAOF

26 Sep 2013 17:23:38
Thoughts about last night. Evans and Smalling showed why Moyes has played Vidic and WGT every game. The one in the first half where Evans let the ball drop straight over his head was just scary. As for Smalling I am gutted for the boy but he is way way out of his league. The guy can't pass. Jones once again showed what he was all about, chasing everything in a Liverpool shirt never once letting them settle. Giggs still thinks he's a quarter back and just chips those balls over the top all the time. Nani is the most frustrating player ever for if he had an end product he would be devistating but he is a rubbish house who backs out of every tackle and who would rather try another trick than pick out an attacker. Rooney as captain shameful. Little Pea showing Welbeck what strikers are supposed to do. Kagawa showing his ability to receive a ball and lose a man or make killer passes. Being absolutely wasted on the wing should be played down the middle. Moyes still managing like he managing Everton. A 1-0 lead at home and he takes off two attacking players and brings on a holding midfielder. Trying to hang on.

So no player according to any of your posts is allowed 1 mistake? God forbid they do otherwise the great KLOOT will condemn them for ever and make up childish names for them! U kind sir are what they call a tool!

26 Sep 2013 18:22:18
Kloot,

I agree in part I actually thought evans dis ok last night and grew into the game its his 1st start for 4 months. Kagawa gave the ball away more than any other player last night but he was not helped playing on same flank as buttner (in fact same pitch, no same country) he is hopeless

Chich did well again 1st start

Im wondering what zaha does wrong in training most of the games I've seen him in for us pre season and prior for palace he was v good. gets bums off seats

Perfect post.

26 Sep 2013 14:28:11
Kagawa is a good player but as yet hasn't proved he should be in the starting line up . I don't think he has had one great game, a couple of decent games but I don't think he has ever made it difficult for the manager to drop him.
Fergy never had full faith in him and neither has moyes .
I think he is a good player but is he the right player for united or the EPL so far I would have to say no.
Just for the record he played wide for Dortmund on many occasions and plays there for Japan.
Some of the comments of building our team round him or playing before Rooney seem a bit daft imo.
I hope he finds his feet and does well as he is the type if player I like but I don't think he will while we continue to play 4;4_2

Dear mr jred
after coming to a new club with a new system in a new country with new customs and weather and pace of the game
and playing just a few minutes a game
how in the world can he prove anything, pray tell
ngiak believes a run of 15 games, played IN THE CORRECT position
then ngiak believes you may be the correct light to judge him
ngiak can't believe playing German league's player of the year, infrequently, out of position will give him a chance
he is class even against brazil and Italy playing for his country
and he is class in German football
being wasted by a poorly clued in manager surrounded by not so intelligent players
ngiak has no idea what you actually mean, sir
gan

He plays very well behind the main striker. And would fit in well in a 4231 in MU and the EPL. But Rooney this season so far is a better option in that position so will play ahead of Kagawa. Kagawa is wasted out wide and probably doesn't suit the EPL in that position. Good player, but as long as Rooney is at MU and playing well, it will inevitably keep Kagawa out of the team as he is a better player and more suited to the EPL. I think I would like to see Kagawa play behind Rooney this weekend if RvP isn't fit, but I have a feeling Fellaini may play behind Rooney.

In fairness jred he's hardly had a decent run in the team so its been difficult for him. He was brilliant for dortmund and I think SAFs plan was to play him behind rooney which is where he played so well in the bundesliga but then we had the chance to sign RVP and SAF couldn't turn that opportunity down.
I agree he's not really shown his dortmund form for us but he doesn't have the same type of players around him that he did there. Carrick and cleverly aren't as solid enough in midfield to allow him to concentrate on creating chances as gundogan and bender were.
Theres aquality player there in the right formation with the right players and that's moyes job to put the pieces together

I assume you are referring to my comments about building a team around him. Why is that so daft? I never meant, or said, that we should play him instead of Rooney. I actually think we should play both of them. Like you said he often played on the left for Dortmund. He also plays there for Japan, allowing them to play Honda in the "hole". But on the left of a "3" behind a central striker, not as an out and out winger. Like you said, he doesn't fit in well to our preferred 442. But is 442 working for us? I certainly don't think so, and won't with the players we have. Anyway, I will shut up about Kagawa now as I have been debating this all day with others and we are going round in circles. I just hope we give the lad a fair chance because he deserved it. If he is given the chance and it doesn't work out then fair enough. But if we lose him without giving him a fair crack, we will never know what could have been.

Ngiak

It's ok saying he needs a run of 15 games in his correct position but that means Rooney has to be left out and for how many of them games will Kagawa be a passenger until he gets upto speed, if he ever does get upto speed which I don't think he will.
The german league and International Football is completely different to our league, not as fast, not as physical and I don't think Kagawa can get to grips with it.
You say he's being wasted by a poor manager then this must include Fergie because he didn't play him all the time and when he did play him it was wide either right or left.
There is no place for Kagawa unless Rooney gets injured and even then i'm not entirely convinced that he would be able to do a job for us.
Jred - your post is spot on.

TBFA, SAF targeted RvP month's before the signing. This wasn't a spare of the moment thing, MU had held talks with RvP's agent month's before he signed. The Kagawa and RvP are unrelated.

The game against Norwich last season was his best ever in a United shirt. We know that he's got some of the best passing ability in our team and his touch is terrific. I was a massive fan of him before there was any talk of him moving to United and even watch Japan play most games because I rate quite a few of their players very highly. He just needs game time, and like any player confidence. The fact he's getting a chance of about 1 in 4 games is not going to do him any favours when he actually plays. Feel sorry for the guy!

Ok, look at it from another point of view. If we had bought Ozil in the summer, would we have played him AND Rooney, or would we have dropped Ozil because Rooney is playing well? I am sure the answer is we would play both. I still maintain that given the chance, Rooney and Kagawa CAN play in the same side if given the opportunity.

Betty, well rumours say that MU never pushed ahead with a deal for Oezil due to us having Rooney. There is little point spending £50m on Oezil when we have Rooney playing in Oezil's favoured and best position. If MU had sold him to Chelsea then perhaps Oezil be a MU player now. We will never know for sure, but common sense suggests there would have been little sense in signing Oezil for £50m when we have Rooney and Kagawa already at the club.

How many great games has kagawa had for united?
Is he playing great in training if so why haven't moyes or fergy fully stuck with.
Moyes sounds un convinced. And he works with kagawa every day.
So what has kagawa done ti deserve a run of 20 games.
Who's in the best position to judge us or moyes.
I will be interested. To hear the answers.
Also veron was one if the best cm in the world when we bought him how did that work out

Dear mr simmo
it's a poor manager who gets a great player and wastes him
either in a system that does not fit him
or in a position that is already taken
or amongst players who will never reach the technical ability or have the football brain to understand him
it will take a brave man
to allow his attacking prowess behind a front two of Rooney and van persie
with three others behind him and at his side. 3 strong and hard working midfielders sadly we do not have
giggs runs aimlessly and powerlessly game after game
when kagawa could easily have filled in and be better
pray tell how does giggs fit in and kagawa does not?
pray tell why don't we have strong midfielders until fellaini?
why not build a new team with these great players for a greater future?
instead of going back to the mundane boring backward classic slow British football?
gan

Baby face
Completely agree I have made the point myself

Syd, i'm sure talks were held with RVP but
there wouldv been no guarantee arsenal wouldv been willing to sell though because they were trying to get him to sign a new deal. Personally I think rooney, RVP and kags can all play together if the formation was tweaked and we had more mobility in CM. i'm not sure moyes rates him tbh but if he leaves il guarantee his next manager will know how to get the best out of him

Ngiak

By the way Moyes didn't buy Kagawa Fergie did. Remember?
So are you sayingFergie is a poor manager now?

Ferguson revealed: ''The boy wanted to come to us. That was important. That made it possible. If he hadn't come out forcibly to Arsenal and told them he wanted to come to Manchester United, negotiations would have been over. 'I spoke to David Gill and he spoke to the Glazer family and they got the ball rolling. But that was some months ago, it was a long haul.''

Baby Face, SAF wanted both kagawa and RvP, it was not a case of wanting Kagawa to play behind Rooney then all of a sudden RvP became available. MU were trying to sign RvP for months. Rooney was playing in the hole behind Berbatov, Hernandez, Welbeck etc and MU needed a main striker and RvP was the best around and wanted to join. I think Kagawa was bought to replace Rooney in the near future and SAF's attempt to get rid of Rooney ties in with it.

Whatever your views or opinions, I think we will all agree its a great topic of debate. Lots of valid posts on the topic, with well structured arguements. Better than all the negative garbage at the weekend anyway.

Dear mr simmo1975
ngiak only made a statement
it was a rhetorical statement made in the context of the thread of conversation
ngiak is well aware of the facts that you try to exhibit as noteworthy
make your simplistic conclusions as your limited human mind sees fit
as ngiak expected of humans.
gan

Betty
No one is saying kagawa and Rooney can't play in the same team but at the moment there is no sign moyes is going to play anything but 4-4-2.
Also at the moment kags has not proved he can handle the EPL
He needs to play himself into the team which I don't think he has done.
And I would also question how he is doing in training as neither fergy or moyes have full backed him.
I like kags but like any player you need ti earn your place do you think kags have

Syd,
Im not arguing the point you made but regardless of what RVP told arsenal they couldv let him see out his contract like dortmund have with lewandowski if they wanted.
You may be right regards rooney tbh as I don't believe SAF wouldv signed kags without some idea of how to use him.I still think that we need to alter the formation slightly and add more mobility to midfield to get the best out of him because he proved at dortmund that with the right players and tactics he can be a special player

Jred,
You may have a point but if he's not impressing in training then young must look like george best at carrington because there's nothing he brings to the team that kags doesnt/wouldnt.
I think its simply down to the dormation like you mentioned, 4-4-2 or 4-4-1-1.
Whichever way you look at itthose formations require wingers not advanced attackers whch suits young, valencia, nani and even giggs and welbeck more than kags, maybe a change to 4-2-3-1 would give him the best chance to impress

Jred

That is the point I have been trying to make on this thread, and the one further down the page. Some don't think they can play in the same team, that it has to be Rooney OR Kagawa. I've been trying to argue that they can. And that Kagawa needs to be given the chance at least to prove himself. I agree 100% that you need to earn your place in the team. But have Valencia or Ashley Young earned their places. I think not.
I think the general feeling is that Kagawa is a quality player, but needs to prove himself, and also adapt to the EPL. But how will he ever do that without a run of games. He surely can't do any worse than Young.

Syd
"We never thought we could get Van Persie. If you go back six months ago, I couldn't see us getting him.
I thought Arsenal are not going to let him go. When I read he had refused a new contract, that is when we acted."
Fergy
It was in the papers that he refused a contract in July so they might of made enquiries about rvp like we prob do about a lot of players but It can't of looked like it was on untill July after we bought kags
There was also reports we had agreed a deal for kags months before he signed

Betty
I would agree with that .

Dithering dave also deemed thiago not good enough for the prem but hey ho he's the expert :)

Jred, I agree that we would have agreed to bring Kagawa here well before we did. Reports said it was agreed something like nine months before between player and club. But I do not believe SAF wanted to play Rooney as the main striker with Kags behind. If you remember we were also looking at Lew before we bought RvP so we were still looking at main strikers when we had already bought Kags. I think SAF wanted RvP or Lew plus Kagawa to form a new attack for when he wanted to sell Rooney. I think SAF always wanted him gone before he retired and his actions indicate that. However I think Moyes wants Rooney to stay and I think SAF has accepted it.

Changing the subject sightly, do you get the feeling Moyes is under a little bit of pressure to play Kagawa? Perhaps from the fans?

Syd
Yer I do his comments yesterday where a bit of a gaff
I also think he is under pressure full stop, if you look at him closely after the match yesterday u canctually see the pressure lifting off him.
There is a long way to go and I like the bloke but I don't think he is the right man for the job

Yes syd I do. Maybe not just by fans but I think he's aware of calls from certain people to involve him more hence the 'everyone keeps telling me how good he is' comment which tbh sounded a bit strange because an experienced manager like moyes should surely already know kags capabilities i'd think

Ngiak

Are you some kind of Robot?

26 Sep 2013 12:42:48
Rooney clearly resented RVP's immediate prominence, and maybe still does, but like Nani, last year's on the pitch performances were simply not good enough and when SAF called him out on it by benching him he did what any child would do, he threw a tantrum. Rooney was overweight and, for him, lethargic. During the off season both of these players must surely have faced a reality check when none of the big clubs came calling with major offers. However with the right mindset, both of them are world class - and we don't have too many in that category.

If Moyes can bring that out, and gain Rooney's commitment by inducting him into the captaincy, then I say go for it. The other senior players are now in phase-out stage. A re-energized Rooney with a 5 year contract is someone we can continue to build the future around and financially it could save many millions in the transfer market.

Agree with Rooney but Nani is far from world class. Over rated with no end product.

Nani is awfull. he drives me insane with his final decisions.
Complete waste of talent and should have done much better with his career.

26 Sep 2013 12:35:57
Is there just me whom is sick as a chip to the way we have been playing, yes a results a result last night but it's so frustrating how we get it.

We sit back and allow the attack so that we have a better number ratio on the counter. However we do not pressure the ball enough we run to it then stand a yard or two off it and follow. This is not how a team of uniteds quality should be playing.

We should be playing with a high line with fast defenders whom are comfortable in possession. Then we play the possession game and try out pass the opposition and work out way up with that. Then when we lose the ball we should have instant battles to win it back as quick as can be with one man really getting stuck in and one man covering incase he fails.

I believe we would then see a much more creative and more attacking team with a load more goals flying in.

What's everyone's opinion

Yeah it's bad to watch I agree, the midfield is just not good enough and sit in front of the back line too deep! But what else can they do? We need a YaYa Toure badly!

Again, I have been saying this for the past year or two. Most teams defend as a team, when u watch Barca, Dortmund etc, as soon as the lose the ball, they swarm around the man with the ball to induce an error.
Our team lies back and allows the other team to play, and in most cases, the top teams, take advantage of that and end up beating us.
Problem lies with the old fashioned tactics that Fergusson employed and worryingly Moyes is employing at present.
Playing two wingers is a non starter unless you have two world class wingers like Robben and Ribery. We don't even have one "good" winger. So we have to modernize our tactics and start playing with midfielders. And also, he has to play the best midfielders, ie Kagawa, in his correct position.
We will see what happens, but I don't think Moyes thinks this way.

Nomidfield,

I don't always agree with you, but I 100% do agree with you on this one. We should built our team around a player like Kagawa. Not disguard him because he doen't fit into an outdates, rigid 442. I have been debating with Simmo further down the page about Kagawa. I genuinely believe playing Kagawa Rooney and Nani behind RVP would work well for us, with Fellaini and Carrick in front of the back 4. The game has moved on from old rigid formations, and more to the point, we don't have out and out wingers who are good enough.

26 Sep 2013 08:22:04
A few people seem unhappy with me displaying my disapointment that Wayne Rooney was given the greatest honour in the land last night in captaining Manchester United.

Well i'm sorry if being captain means something to me.

Now I have eaten a fair bit of humble pie over my comments about Rooney over the summer, and I have had to accept(and gladly actually) that Rooney still has the ability to produce world clasd performances.

And as such I am happy with him being in the first team and a support him everytime he crosses the white line to play for us.

Also his on field commitment has been exceptional, he has played like a leader and he has performed like one too.

But being captain is about more than what you do on the pitch, in fact it is more about what you do off the pitch. It is about your ability to lift and lead your fellow team mates, its about being able to put your arm around them when they need it and about being able to to give them that push when they need it. A captain can do that because he has the total respect and support of the dressing room.

If I was a player in that dressing room I would question Rooney as captain. Purely based on his precieved lack of commitment off the field over the summer, a mere couple of months ago.

Now there will be those who will say that I don't know for certain that Rooney asked to leave, and you would be right. But I do know for certian that as of yet Rooney is yet to deny in person that he asked to leave. We've heard through "sources" that Rooney never said that but in all the interviews he has held since he has yet to deny it. He even got shirty in a post game interview when asked if he was happy at the club, replying that he is just concentrating on his football. Those are hardly the actions of a player who is fully commited to the club. And his team mates will knkw exactly how wayne feels and where his commitments lie.

As such I felt he was a poor choice to lead the players out on the field regardless of how he plays on the field or the manner in which he plays on the field his off field behaviour should rule him out of having the greatest honour of leading out the greatest team.


And i'm sure there are previous captains of our club who feel the same.

I trust my eyes over 3rd or 4th hand gossip. And that humble pie is going to last quite a while. Probably til he retires, maybe longer.

Come out and say he never wanted to leave, publicly call our greatest ever leader saf a lier? Would you? Would this not make him an instant hate figure both internally ( fergie still there you know ) and externally? We don't know what happened but he definitely won't take this course of action ( maybe in his next book when he retired)? And in 2010 when the last contract was getting sorted he was dead right getting what he was worth with ya ya and a few others getting massive money why should he not want the same being the biggest name in the league, you seen the reassurance your beloved Ronaldo needed this summer( making sure he best paid and that they still love him, ah bless ) before he committed and yet he is still everyone's hero, double standards me thinks

Shappy

A certain someone called Roy Keane on occassions albeit rare ones, dragged our club through mud, flirted with Juve and talked about the wage structure and then was(is) a bitter bitter human being. Look at his comments now. Do you think he deserved the captaincy? Ask KLOOT if he did.

Deeps.

Nobody knows what really happened. If the manager decided to give him the captaincy surely knows better than you. Who else would be Giggs? Evans as you mentioned yesterday? C'mon! He was the best choice comparing with the players in the pitch. Move on.

26 Sep 2013 11:37:50
Keane didn't always cover himself in glory, but it was a different situation. He was the full time captain when his indiscresions happened, thus he it wasn't like he was rewarded for his behaviour.

Rooney isn't the full time captain, he isn't even the vice captain. So to get to captain the team is like a reward. I don't feel after this summer he should have that honour or reward. If we were a year or two down the line then I could understand and accept that he has earned the respect back.

But I don't think you can so easily smooth over what happened. I mean its only been 5/6 games. He has played well in those games but its not even like he has lifted and carried the team to great heights in those games. What did he do against Chelsea City and Liverpool in the league? that's three games where he didn't inspire his team mates to perform.

Its just a personal opinion but I don't think he deserves to lead the team out yet, he has done well but he still has much to prove. It'll be interesting to see what everyones opinion will be if he hasn't got a new contract by next summer.

I am with Shappy on this.

Whilst people will argue about yes he did and no he did not, He had the opportunity to put that all to bed when asked if he was happy by saying something as simple as "yes absolutely, I love the club" and would neither confirm or deny what is the truth behind the transfer saga.

There are posters here who are his fans no matter what and impossible to change their view on this subject. Personally, I am still of the view this is not over and we might see and it will bear it's ugly head again next summer.

Whilst I wouldn't opt for Rooney as full time captain, I don't think there's anything wrong with him being captain last night or for some other games when vidic isn't playing.

seems to me its just part of Moyes trying to put an arm round the player and settle him down which I think is good management by Moyes.

As the other posters mentioned, Keane didn't cover himself or the club in glory.
How about the club coming out and saying that Rooney was right and he didn't ask for a transfer request?
This was all ferguson's doing, it was his parting shot and has backfired on him.
Unfortunately, United have suffered because of it. The sooner the fans get behind him the better, because where I'm wathcing from, we don't have a lot of great players in the team at present, so let's get behind the guy and I'm sure he'll repay that with goals and performances.
One last point, didn't Vidic think of leaving the club a couple of years ago? There was lot of talk in the papers at the time, so should we believe all the paper talk and get rid of Vidic as well? Of course not.

Shappy
But you don't no what really went on or what goes on in the dressing room.
It wasn't that long ago you where saying he had to go as he would be a bad influence in the dressing room .
Actions speak louder than words, especially when them words come from the daily rags. Rooney is at the club and moyes made him captain, tells its own story.
But the shovel down pal

I'm with Shappy 100%.

The move to make Rooney captain reeks of desperation. Pandering to a player that we need more than he needs us, all this talk of nobody being bigger than the club, hmmm. Rooney has been an absolute disgrace the way he has handled his contract negotiations over the years, no class whatsoever.

For those of you saying we don't know what really happened I agree. BUT we do know that if you are wronged or accused of something and have the opportunity to put the record straight you would do it in a flash. He hasn't, he therefore is the puppet of his agent or simply a disgrace of a human being.

Potentially our key player over the next few years, but he will be off in the summer and good riddance. People are so fickle just ignoring his disgraceful performances last season and his abysmal tactics in trying to get more money or a move away. There is no honour left anymore and making him captain - what message does that send to the rest of the squad? Treat the club like dirt, play well for a handful of games and all will be forgiven, just like the scousers! Ince, Stam, Kanchelskis, Beckham, etc didn't get that treatment, but back then we had other options!

26 Sep 2013 14:27:42
Nomidfield I find your apparent ease at turning your back on Sir Alex quite shocking to be honest. He is the man who made us what we are today. Regardless of whether it was a parting shot from him at Rooney or not. I would say he deserves the backing and trust over Rooney.

If you could have an at peak Rooney in our sqaud forever or Sir Alex as our manager forever which would you pick?

There is always another Rooney available, but finding another Sir Alex will prove to be much harder.

Jred, there is no shovel pal. I don't like Rooney, but I support him as a player. He may well be bad influance in the dressing room, as you said we don't know what goes on. Imo the Rooney debate isn't over and probably never will be. Until he either signs a new contract or leaves his future is still up in the air.

And all of this could have been put to bed as Shahram said if only Rooney was to publicly say he was happy at the club but his refusal to say so means this whole issue is heing dragged on.

Shappy
That holes getting bigger .
Have a look at some of the things you claimed last season and you look a bit daft
On the other hand just keep digging

Shappy, Rooney is not going to comment on his future or whether he is happy whilst there are contractual discussions taking place behind the scenes. He will be being advised what to do by Stretford. If a deal is agreed he will be over the moon and has never stopped loving the club. If a deal cannot be agreed then he may well be playing for Chelsea this time next season. As it stands nothing is sorted, nothing has been resolved and it could still go either way depending on whether or not MU give the player and agent what they want.

I must add this is nothing against Rooney. It is simply how negotiations work. Rooney isn't the first to try and get a bigger contract and he will not be the last.

26 Sep 2013 15:46:33
The only thing i've said which so far has been proven wrong is that he seems to have found some pace, which I didn't think he was going to be able to do.

I never said he was a bad player, just that imo we have already seen the best of him. He may yet prove me wrong on that score and I hope he does. But five games into the season might be abit too early to say he has yet.

I said he'll be a bad influance on the squad, as you said we don't know what effect he is having in the changing room so we'll just have to see about that one. Although you could argue that all this Rooney stuff has been distracting and may have added to the reasons behind our poor start to the season. But no one could prove that either way.

I said that I felt Sir Alex was trying to stop Rooney from holding the club to ransom over a new deal. Well again its a wait and see thing with that atm.

So the only thing I said that as yet i've had to eat humble pie with is that he has found more pace. And his fitness in general seems much better.

Syd i'm quite aweare what Rooney is upto, and i'm sure that is why Sir Alex said what he said so he would undermine Rooney position weakening his bargining position.

Shappy

Lets not get into that mode where we have to dig out stuff that was said in previous discussions. You had made some absolutely outrageous claims on this issue, now you have been found out. Bringing the captaincy debate does not cover up the fact that 99% of what you said in the summer turned out to be wrong.

You keep making a "lets not decide on 5-6 games" point, how ironic. Jred, Me, NoMidfield, Darren and others have always based our judgement on the 9 glorious years he has given us. You decided to jump on the bandwagon after one arguably poor year he had. So don't make that point, does not make a lot of sense.

He has been our best player if you consider the last decade, yet some of the disrespect that's dished out here(without knowing the facts) is pathetic.

Shappy, there were posts where you advocated using Welbeck over Rooney saying he is better. Puts things into perspective?

Deeps.

Shappy

LOL, you will never convince them. I understand where you are coming from.

At least some of us can come out and praise him for the effort in the offseason and a coming back fittter and hungry and a different different player this year.

I don't doubt for one minute he wanted to leave and will take any wager on this as the truth eventually gets out.

"Keeping Wayne Rooney was one of the main objectives of the cLub in the summer transfer window" remember Official Club statement, unless you all buy into a conspiracy theory that the club up and down, Phelan, Saf, Gill, Rene, Moyes are all in it and bunch of no good liars :)

But let's not get carried away and anoint him as Messi either, we are all over the place as a team at the moment and he stands out compared to the rubbish some of the other players have demonstrated on the pitch.

Remember boys & girls, this thing is a long way away and yet to be settled but for now I am really glad he is here and playing for us because we sure need it.

26 Sep 2013 18:01:36
keane was not full time captain when fergie got him released from his cell (drunk tank) on eve of cup final. Roy Keane is a tool

There was a lot of banter about Rooney last year which I enjoyed the site would be poor if everyone agreed.
All the regulars made there views known.
I posted in the summer that if Rooney has another season like the last one I will look a f person .
No back traking as there is no point people know my point of view.
There where imo some ridiculous things posted about Rooney last year

God created
I think Rooney wanted to go ti Chelsea this summer I have said that many times I also think it would of been a good move for Chelsea and Rooney.
I think it's all about playing time and position I think he wants to play as a striker
But I'm ok with that for these boys it's just a job.
Not one if them would be playing for united if they didn't get paid or where asked ti take a significant pay cut .
I'm glad he stopped and u have no issue with him bbeing captain.

26 Sep 2013 19:03:44
Deeps mate I love how you remember a snippit of what I said but forgot the context.

I said if we were to play a 433 formation that Welbeck is better suited to playing one of the wide forward roles as last season Rooney was showing a real lack of pace.
That was in relation to someone saying we should play 433 and play Rooney wide left like we did in 2008 with Ronaldo and Tevez.

So well done for taking something I said out of context. Also nearly everything I said was my OPINION thus is hard to proved wrong, misguided maybe but not wrong.

It remains that on the field of play Wayne Rooney has been an excellent player for us, but his off field behaviour is far from perfect. And that is why he will always be a decisive figure amoungst us United fans.

I'll finish on interesting question do you or any of you truely feel that Wayne Rooney has fully lived upto his potential? And do you think Wayne has done everything possible for him to reach those hights?

That should be " I have no issues with him being captain"
Having a mare with my phone

26 Sep 2013 07:37:09
Guys, did you check the Jan Vertonghen tackle on Villa's Nicklas Helenius? He pulled down his shorts! The guy even got a shot away with his pants down LOL. He then appealled frantically for a penalty.

I haven't seen something as funny in recent times.

Deeps.

I thought of all the times I played in boxer shorts that certainly weren't secure. If someone pulled down my shorts there was a better than even chance that I was going commando in the open.

It was very funny Deeps, and the ref waved the play on!

Can you imagine what young would have done if it had happened to him :)

26 Sep 2013 20:12:06
Vertonghen pulls Helenius' shorts down while tackling him
Class!
www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/see-spurs-jan-vertonghen-pull-2298314

25 Sep 2013 23:31:36
And that, my friends, is why Jonny Evans has to be first choice with Vidic.

Great game from Ulster's finest.

I could not agree more. I don't really like Slysports but this is a copy and paste straight from one of their articles about tonight talking about Evans which I completely agree with:

"faced with one of the most dangerous front pairings the Premier League can offer, the Northern Ireland international produced the sort of performance that had you wondering why Moyes feels obliged to ask Rio Ferdinand to hobble around thrice a week. Is the former Everton boss labouring under the misapprehension Evans is a mere understudy? True in 2008 but something of a nonsense five years on. Learning to rotate effectively is imperative at United."

Jonny is a great defender and i'd have him over Rio

Redman,

This is not the right site to share your fantasies on! lol

He's by far better than Rio at this stage and should be starting more often. He did get shoved off the ball too easily by Suarez in one instance and also let a harmless cross go over his head and Suarez would have scored had his first touch been better. But all in all, Evans was good.

Played well, but he wasn't at his best. Let Suarez through a couple of times. But if he can get the rust off and continue to improve, then I'd be fine with that. But if he doesn't improve he'll always be the 3rd CB to me.

We need to give Smalling a run of games. For someone who has played very little football in the past year due to injuries, Smalling is always involved and when he finally gets his mojo back he will be a far better option than Rio. I would use Evans to rotate with Vidic and play Jones in midfield at times.

I think if RvP is injured this weekend we may see Fellaini play behind Rooney and Jones and Carrick in midfield. It's not what I would do, but it's something we may see Moyes try.

Syd, I just think Evans is much more advanced than Smalling at this stage, in terms of knowing their craft. He has to be first choice at the minute.

I like Smalling, but we're soon going to get to the stage where we have to face the conundrum of choosing between Evans, Smalling and Jones. Someone's going to have to lose out. Tough decisions ahead.

To those who are nitpicking over Evan's performance, I'd ask you to remember he was stepping into one of the biggest games there are, on his first start of the season, pressure on, and tasked with holding together a ridiculously young defence, and against a nearly full_strength Liverpool team in good form.