Manchester United Banter Archive March 27 2013

27 Mar 2013 21:40:32
Sydney Phil Neville won 6 league titles 3 FA Cups a European Cup and a world club championship with United. That was in a great team full of world class players. Since then he has moved on and captains a very competitive Everton side. yet you still say that Cleverley is a better player. Take a little time think about it Sydney and re consider

Phil Neville is 36 years old so if you are comparing them by achievements do you not think it only fair to wait until Cleverley is the same age? As you say Neville played in a team full of world class players so perhaps we should wait and see how Cleverley can perform when given the same opportunity? How would Neville have played in this team I wonder? These are just a few reasons it is unfair to compare the 2.

TK-Red

Jonathon Greening picked up a Champions League medal so with your theory Cleverley not in his class!
Funny SirAlex&Roy Hodgson don't seem to be on your wavelength.
Your in the wrong job.

To answer some of your questions: TK Red Phil left United at 28 after winning all those things Cleverley is nearly 24 and hasn't won anything. The next thing is the age old argument Well Sir Alex and Roy Hodgson must think he is good. Well ask yourself this do either of them have a great midfield in your opinion. If he was playing at a mid table team would he get in the England side No way.

The point I was making if any of you could be bothered to read was that Sydney said that Cleverley was a better player than Phil Neville and I was pointing out that Phil managed to get into a far stronger team and midfield.

Phil Neville, John o Shea, Darren Gibson, Rossi etc etc etc where in a similar position attemping to nail down a permanent position but due to quality ofplayers in front of them and fans impatience (LIKE KLOOT)furthered their careers elsewhere Cleverly like Fletcher as something that bit extra and in 2/3 years time will be receiving I TOLD YOU SO comments from Sir Kloot when he matures and grows in stature!
Kloot be patient remember Veron Kleberson & Berbatov big money invested with not a lot in return.
Phil Neville played most of his games at full back and in my opinion John O Shea was a better player in midfield when called upon and these players are what Manchester United stand for so get behind the likes of Cleverley Powell The Keanes etc because that is what sets us apart.

P Nev is far superior to cleverley IMO.

TC isn't improving enough for my liking. too often looks way out of depth. shame to say it but I don't think he's england first 11 standard.

i can't see TC having half the career that Nev has.

saying that hope i'm wrong.

ms85

Behave RFT. I'm quite capable of reading your posts, which clearly say on one hand that Neville was the better player as he achieved more and yet on the other hand that he played in a team full of world class players as opposed to Cleverley who is playing in a none existent midfield. You can't have it both ways. Phil Neville was a good player who served a purpose when required where as you are judging Cleverley on the fact he doesn't dominate games.

TK-Red

For the record RFT I'm not saying TC is the saviour of our midfield but it is hard to compare a player who had the luxury of a world class team around him, to one who does not.

TK-Red

When phil neville was at utd he got the crowd going in a lot of games with the crunching tackles he put in, look at the england game and cleverley looked as though he backed out of a tackle which enabled montenegro to break and nearly score. even the commentations picked up on this, i'm unsure cleverley will improve much more and don't think he adds a lot to our midfield, and compared to nevilles combatitiveness cleverley couldn't tackle a bag of crisps
johndenton

Totally with you Kloot. Cleverley gets into that Man U midfield because we have nothing else that is better. Plus Fergie will not address the issue of the central midfield area for some reason.
We have a 40 year old Ryan Giggs who maybe has 1 year left and won't play every game. we have a 39 year old Paul Scholes that is due to retire at the end of the season. A crock fat overweight Brazilian who is a complete waste of time, energy and money and we have Darren Fletcher who is never going to be the same player due to his crippling condition and let's face it Fletcher hardly set the world alight. He always puts 100% and a good shift but he wasn't the greatest passer / creative midfielder was he.
Then we have Tom "the brand" Cleverley. This guy scuttles around in the central area receiving passes and playing a five yard sideways passes and repeats this about 30 times in a game. He doesn't create, he doesn't score goals so what does this guy bring to the team?
Im baffled I really am, i'm also baffled that Fergie doesn't think that we have need reinforcements when we have done for the past three seasons.

Simmo

All I've seen is people talk about Neville's work ethic and the fact he goes hard into tackles. That must mean I'm a better player than Tom Cleverley aswell then? As has been said all along, they are 2 completely different players who play different roles. How many goals and assists did Neville get? As I'm sure Cleverley has more already. Does that make TC a better footballer? We don't know as when all facts are on the table it's an uneven comparison.

TK-Red

Simmo, you have just given the real reason to why some like yourself dislike Cleverley and will not give him time to progress like any other United player would get. It's because the manager has neglected the midfield therefore people are slating Cleverley like it's his fault. If we had signed Nasri and it was him pairing with Carrick in midfield and Cleverley was on the bench chipping in with performances, then no one would be using Cleverley as a scapegoat right now.

Darron Gibson wasn't good enough, but at least he was given a chance. I will be the first to admit Cleverley hasn't looked the same since that Kevin Davies tackle that ruined his debut season, but I am not going to cast him aside after one season. He needs more time and he will improve, whether he improves to the appropriate standard to be a United first team player remains to be seen, but as United fans we should be giving him a chance and not making him the scapegoat for SAF's mistakes in the transfer market.

It is not Cleverley's fault SAF has missed out on midfield targets.

Syd
Does that apply to all United players or just cleverly I think there are plenty of players on this site made a scapegoat both young and old.

The reason imo why cleverly gets so much stick on this site is because there has been an on going debate over how good he is.

Before he had hardly kicked a ball for United some people though he would be a future world class player and that we would build our team around him
Others never thought he would reach that level and argued against this.

I think as a result some of the post about him are a bit of "I told you so " to be honest.

Like TK says it's irrational comparing the achievements of a 36 yr old full back come holding midfielder with a 23 yr old midfielder after his first full season with us. Whether or not Phil Neville is a better tackler is irrelevant and in fact I'd expect it of a player who'se played a lot at RB.

Agree with Syd too - if Cleverly was a squad player deputising in certain games and used in rotation - nobody would have a problem with him. So why does he get slated for SAF's inability to buy a midfielder? I'm sure the same people would have wanted Evans and Fletcher sold when they were 23 years old and hardly setting the football world alight! Or even Rafael when he was seen as 'too rash' or a 'poor defender'. Look how things change given a little patience in our younger players!

HBadger

I wish people would stop with the nonsense that Cleverly was verging on world class in his 3. 5 games at the start of last season. He did well in a team that was playing exceptionally well, but he was far from being the standout midfielder, let alone player. In a way his form for those few games backs up Kloots point, the lad does well if the team is playing well but goes missing when we need him most.

The main point is that Cleverly struggles to influence games. He is a squad player, like Phil Neville was or O' Shea and countless other players. The problem is that Cleverly is being given roles for us and England that are above his ability. He should never be first choice for a top European side. He is a limited player who I can't see developing into much more than a decent option to have on the bench.

Would I prefer to have Phil on the bench? Yep, because Cleverly lacks the ability to change a game, whereas Phil was always able to add some grit to the team.

Danny Pughnited

Jred, 24 years old is a bit early for "I told you so" don't you think? This is exactly the point people like Syd! Is trying to make. a lot of people have written the guy off already when this is his first full season. Phil Neville hardly looked a world beater at 24, Infact he hand a tendency to be a liability on occasion. It was only during his last couple of seasons when he was forced into midfield that he showed any dramatic improvement as a player. What Cleverley needs is another midfielder or 2 to take the pressure off him because, at the moment, he is going into most games knowing that if he doesn't put in a man of the match performance, he is going to get slaughtered. Until then he is left with that pressure as SAF has neglected the midfield for too many years and, as Sydney! said, you can't blame Tom Cleverley for that.

TK-Red

Syd

Where did I say cast Tom Cleverley aside in my post?
Tom Cleverley is a squad player and shouldn't be playing 50 games a season. Great for back up that's it.
He isn't good enough, that's the bottom line.

Simmo

Very good point TK - I'd almost forgot but P Neville was not held in very high esteem by anyone at the age of 23, he blossomed and matured later. Not even Gary was pulliung up trees at that age. Do people see where I'm going with this?

HBadger

Danny Pughnited

Would you prefer a 23 yr old Phil Neville or a 23 yr old Cleverly on the bench?

HBadger

Can anyone tell me, what does cleverley actually do? I watch him during matches, he plays a lot of short passes, sideways, then he asks for the ball back! Totally pointless. I've not seen him play many meaningful telling passes, I've not seen him get stuck in. So I'm not sure what he dies?
Nomidfield

23 yr old Neville. We need lb cover.

It's a bit of a silly argument because we know how Neville turned out, and he was playing as a FB. But at Cleverly's age Neville was moving close to 200 first team appearances for us in very competitive team. People seem to forget that Neville didn't magically become a good player when he moved to cm, he was reliable and always did his job for us. Honestly I value Neville's commitment and passion over anything Cleverly has offered us so far. At 23 Neville was more versatile and more likely to add something to team than Cleverly can now.

Danny Pughnited

Danny, would you not put Cleverley in that category? Reliable and does his job? You seem to have picked Neville due to out lack of depth in other positions but could the same not be said of Cleverley? After all people are saying that Cleverley is only in the side due to the fact we lack in certain positions. Genuine question.

TK-Red

Fair enough Danny, from memory I didn't rate Phil very highly at 23 but he did always give his all and was willing to play in any position. I just think Clevs should be given the same opportunity that others were, though as a squad player not a regular starter.

Nomidifeld - at present that is Cleverly's problem. His strengths are finding space, and keeping the ball moving. I don't think he'll ever be much of a tackler so IMO if he's going to reach the next level he needs to learn to bag a few goals or set them up. I have seen him play some lovely through balls and score a couple beauty's but he needs to kick on and do it more consistently if he wants to be a regular for United.

HBadger

28 Mar 2013 13:26:45
Yes Phil won a fair few pots but if you come on as a time wasting sub in ten league games you still get the medal. Not to put down Phil at all but most of his games were sub appearances or in rotation for other players being rested for bigger games. Cleverley looked class before last seasons Bolton game and I don't think he's recovered from that hence shying out of fifty fifty balls. Also the lads had a lot of pressure on him this season as its been down to in and carrick to carry the side as there is no real options to push them as scholes has declined, giggs remains best on the wing, fletcher is ill and anderson is useless. Who else do we play in place of Cleverley? I remember the kickings fletcher used to get. Comments like he only plays because he's fergies love child. But fletcher is the player we've missed the most over the last three years as year on year he was the most improved player at the club. I think signing some competition for midfield would help him kick his game on.

Tk
I would disagree that Phil looked a liability he was always a good solid player just overshadowed by the likes of scholes etc. By the age of 23 he had played about 200 games for United

Cleverly is a good solid player but was getting labelled as world class before he had hardly kicked a ball for United.
The argument was always how good he could be I disagreed that he could reach world class level I also disagreed with syd that we would build our midfield around him.

You say we need a midfielder to take the pressure of him or even 2 well where would that leave him because Carrick will start if we bought strootman or modric I think cleverly would struggle for games

Like I said good tidy player but world class?
Build our midfield around him?

I haven't seen many post saying he's rubbish it's more a case he's not as good as some people argued

Jred, he would become a good squad player just like Fletcher or Evans became or like O'shea and Brown were. Obvious isn't it?

Are you saying if we get a top CM'er you'd like Cleverly sold or would you keep him in the squad which is what most of us are saying?

You may be correct about the whole 'world class prospect' label but that's not been said for ages and it was clearly wide of the mark (whoever said it!). Perhaps we should just move on and accept him as a good squad player but nothing more? I remember Fletcher getting absolute rave reviews when he was young and how he would turn out 'world class'. This happens at every club, we build up our younsters and overhype them too early. TC is not the only one who has been overhyped but that's not to mean he's not going to be a valuable squad player just like some of the other's turned out.

HB

Jred, I have NEVER said Cleverley will be world-class. You really need to stop your lying.

So you think people are saying "I told you so", Cleverley is 23 and is in his first season which SAF if asked would say it's been a very successful 1st season for the lad. You yourself have just said he is a good, tidy player. That is no more than I have ever said about him.

You need to stop talking out of your backside and give your mouth a chance.

TK,

Honest answer is that I don't think that Cleverley does a reliable job. What complicates this is that I think Cleverley is being asked to do a job that he simply isn't good enough to do.

At 23 Neville was asked to be cover for his brother, primarily Irwin, and Keane/Butt on a few occasions. Basically we had some top quality players and Neville provided solid back up. Cleverley is expected to be one of the main cm players at the club, and he is not good enough to warrant this role. There is no really exceptional aspect to his game: he isn't very incisive going forward, he is pretty poor defensively, and he doesn't have the ability to dictate the tempo of a game. What we have is a tidy passer with good control who covers a lot of ground. Even as an option off the bench, the only real use for Cleverly is if we were looking to keep possession to close out a game we were already winning.

Think of this another way. At the start of the season the three young players who were given a real chance in the first team were Rafael, Welbeck and Cleverley. Of those three Rafael's game has improved drastically to the point where he is becoming a top class player. Welbeck has improved in some respects, like movement and passing, but is still pretty unconvincing as a striker. Whereas I cannot see one area of Cleverley's game that has progressed since August. He hasn't gotten worse, but I don't see any visible signs that a year in the first team has made him a better player. He should be given time, but he isn't a reliable player, he doesn't do the job required of him, and I have yet to see him step up in a game when really needed him to.

Danny Pughnited

Hb
No I would def keep him I think he's a good player, I actually argued in the summer that I didn't think fergy was desperate to sign a cm as he would give clevs a chance.

The point I'm trying to make is that this debate goes back a long time and was more about how good he could be, people were arguing he was a potential world class player others disagreed.
I think the reason he gets stick on here is a bit of a fall out from that
If you look a kloots op he says

"I should cut him some slack but I am still waiting for him to prove me wrong. Last year I got slated for saying he wasn't the answer to our midfield problems now I think most of the people on here would agree"

I would also like to point out I'm not trying to say " I told you so" but I think this is the underlying issue to a lot of the negative posts.

Syd
backtracking again pal?

Hb
Should of added good post I would agree with most of that

Gav, TK, some excellent points and I also agree with Red Man. Something he said a few months ago regarding Cleverley. He said Cleverley is an attacking midfielder who likes to be played further forward, not sat next to Carrick in front of the back four. The same goes for Anderson, but we are overstocked in that position with Rooney, Kagawa etc and lacking a central midfielder to partner Carrick. It's like Anderson and now Cleverley have been forced to play too deep and with both of them lacking defensive qualities I think they are wasted there.

Good and tidy isn't what we need Syd. We need better than that or we will never get upto the standard of what we were 4-5 years ago when we won the Champions League and get to the final the following year.
We have gone backwards since then and never replaced players like Ronaldo, Tevez. Plus the likes of Scholes and Giggs are now in the twilight of there careers.

Agree with Jred. He is a tidy little player and will be a very good squad player.

Agree with Syd on the fact that, this is his first full season. We have gotto give him time. IMO he is better in an advanced role but we have better players there. Must say, he hasn't improved though.

At the end of it, it is an absolute no brainer for me, he is a UNITED player and deserves our support. No question in that.

Deeps.

No name, I have always said that we shouldn't stand still in the transfer market. I have been hoping for a midfielder or two for a few years now like everyone else. Cleverley is already a good player, a tidy player like Jackanory says, but the question is whether or not he will reach the level of requirement at United. The jury is still out as they say, but I am rooting for him. The manager seems to like him, as does Roy Hodgson and Bryan Robson had some good things to say about him too so I am not alone in thinking he will come good eventually.

Deeps, that is what I believe in a nutshell. That is all I have ever said. Good post.

This is very jeremy kyle today!

ms85

Ms85 I have in my hand the results of the dna test and.


















































you are not Tom Cleverley's father!

Danny Pughnited

Some really good posts in this thread and I agree with a lot of the points.

I think Deeps has just summed it up nicely TBH.

The only point I wholeheartedly disagree with (from the thread) is those who say Cleverly is not United quality and never will be. He is clearly a decent squad player and still has time to improve. Whether you rate him or not it really is too early to write him off as United player.

So -we're all agreed on Cleverly and Lewandowski, yes? ;)

Syd
So did you not say we would build our midfield around him next year

Danny I don't think anyone is saying that Cleverley is more than he is, a tidy passer who looks for space but Neville was helped by playing with the players he did where as Cleverley seems to be punished by some for the lack of quality around him in midfield so IMO we shouldn't compare him to Neville until he has been given that same opportunity that Neville had. I asked earlier, I wonder how much more impressive Cleverley would've looked playing in the teams Neville did. I take everyone's points on the type of player Cleverley is but he has been thrust into the team at a transitional time so I just think we should wait to judge him when the transition is complete or atleast a little further along.

TK-Red

Ms85, he has good hair.

Cleverley, Pogba & Morrison will be three graduates from our academy who will be world class if they continue to progress the way they are. De Gea, Smalling & Jones will also be world class players albeit not from our academy.
Sydney

Just one of the examples pal

Jred, read the quote: "if they continue to progress the way they are. "

Sadly Ravel had attitude problems and he f**ked it up for himself. Cleverley's progress had stuttered somewhat over the past 18 months since the injury. I have no doubt that the others will reach great heights.

To be fair jred, I think "if they continue to progress the way they are", gives Syd a get-out clause there. I think he alludes to the fact that Cleverley hasn't maybe progressed as he hoped, but maybe I picked him up wrong

Anyway, we are allowed to change our minds on certain issues - is that not why we try to argue our point on sites like this? To try and persuade others of the validity of our argument?

Steve
I agree but it all goes back to my op why I think cleverly gets a lot of unfair criticism on this site.
Also don't like being called a liar

There are some on here who seem to do nothing more than slate United players. First and foremost, I think the league table suggests that United are doing quite well! They had bad luck against Madrid and could yet do a double. Not bad for a team of no hopers. I thought my eyes were deceiving me when I read that Cleverly does nothing more than scuttle about passing to his team mates and moving again for the return ball. Clearly he's useless if all he can do is keep possession! I like him, he's busy, he does retain possession and is always on the move. Should he start to add goals to his game then I'm sure the same people would find something else wrong with him. He's 23, has come up through the system and is United through and through. He's no Xavi but he's a good prospect who will hopefully get his first taste of success in a few weeks time and should become more confident and kick on from there. I would guess that those same moaners said the very same things about Phil Neville, O'Shea, Butt etc. Should Cleverly give the same commitment as those players then he will serve United well.

Big G

Fair dues mate.

StevieK, precisely my friend, Cleverley hasn't progressed as well as i'd hoped over the past 18 months or so. That was what I was saying last night.

Wow? So not much opinion about Tom then?

Cleverly took darren gibsons spot in the squad, says it all, joeyored

27 Mar 2013 17:30:46
Sydney? Cleverley better than Phil Neville you have got to be joking. The only reason Phil left was because of the midfield we had at the time. He would have walked into todays team. Come on Syd to be taken seriously you will have to do better than that

I have to be honest, Phil Neville was very underrated and if you read Gary Neville's book, although being his brother and obviously slightly biased, he speaks very highly of Phil Neville's ability. I agree with KLOOT, Phil Neville was just unlucky with the midfielders we had at the time.

I do recall seeing him play CM for Everton a couple of seasons ago and thinking he is exactly what we need, for a small lad, he get's stuck in and get's around the pitch well but it was not to be for him unfortunately.

KLOOT, a genuine question for you. With the talk of getting Lewandowski in, if it resulted in Rooney reverting to a CM role as he has done before and has been discussed plenty of times on here, who would you prefer, Rooney or Cleverley? I understand you'd probably prefer neither but it may be one or the other!

Best game I ever saw Phil play for Utd, was in central midfield. Can't be sure but it might have been against Arsenal. Was unconvinced about him up til then, but thought we might see him play regularly there. Shows what I know. Think he was sold the next season.

StevieK

Stevie i'm sure it was against Arsenal as well.

Completely different type of player. Cleverley however is far more superior technically and is better attacking. Neville is better defensively than Cleverley, but other than that offers very little else.

If I am honest I am slightly disappointed that Cleverley hasn't kicked on a little more than he has. I think that Kevin Davies tackle has made him very nervous about getting stuck-in. If you watch the Charity Shield game against City, Cleverley was outstanding, he was outstanding against Barcelona preseason and he was very good up until his injury. I have been saying for a while that he is being far too careful and looks like he chooses the safer option far too often than he needs too. Either that or he is being told to play that way. As an avid watcher of Cleverley in his younger days I am well aware of what he is capable of, hopefully next season after a good rest we will start to see him being a little more positive. let's not forget he was playing in the Olympics in June. That is my honest observations of Cleverley. Still not convinced, but I will be giving him time and I will be supporting him.

Stevie, we played Arsenal, Liverpool, and Chelsea in a row with our 1st choice midfield missing. I'm guessing it was 2003ish. Phil Neville was a monster in those games.

Syd, I thought you had given up on the Cleverley saga. General agreement seems to be he'll be a decent squad player but that's about it. He's had a lot of opportunities to seize his chance this year and from what I can see, hasn't taken them. And I doubt he will enjoy anything like the career Phil Neville has.

AJH

Just checked, it was the end of 2002 and it was Newcastle, Liverpool and Arsenal in a row: 5-3, 2-1, 2-0. Neville completely dominated Vieira that day, he was immense.

AJH, we cannot forget this is Cleverley's first proper season and he has been a United regular, an England regular and he played in the Olympics. I think when he digests this season, has a good old rest, I think we will see an improvement next season. I think he will be a regular in the United team for sometime, but hopefully he can make that next step up. Fingers crossed. {Ed007's Note - Do you just lie awake at night thinking up excuses for Cleverley'' mediocrity. He will be 24 in August mate, sorry but I think this is an argument that you are losing with every passing season. Jack Wilshere is only about a dozen or so first team appearances and a couple of caps behind him and is 3 years younger.}

Not all players set the world alight by 21. Players blossom at different ages. Cleverley will be either a very good squad player or he could bloom into a key first teamer. Flecther wasn't really appreciated until he wasn't available any more, hopefully this isn't the fate for Cleverley.

Cheers lads - starting to think I had imagined it. Remember thinking at the time, 'yes. Phil Neville, you've arrived son. You're now a Utd player'.

Before that, I'll be honest, I thought it was like when you were kids, and you'd give the crap boy a game, just to get his brother in your team :)

You are a fine one to talk about mediocrity when you have been harping on about James McCarthy being part of the Manchester United midfield ;)

Fact of the matter is Cleverley has missed two full season's of progress due to injury and this is why he has made the United team at 22/23 and not earlier.

The same will happen with Davide Petrucci and Will Keane if they are deemed good enough. You would do well not to forget that Cleverley has been a central midfielder since the beginning of last season.

He never played as a midfielder throughout his youth days or his loan moves. He went from a winger straight into the central midfield as we missed out on Nasri and Sneijder in the same window.

I am not saying he's the new Scholes or the answer to the United midfield, but fact remains this is his first full season as a United and England player so cut him some slack. He is just 23. He still has plenty of time.

27 Mar 2013 16:23:49
Didn't realise that as well as the 25 goals Lewandowski has scored in 35 games, he also has 10 assists. That is why he might replace Hernandez, he offers more all around.

Watch that open can of worms on your lap doesn't spill over :)

I've always thought if a quality player becomes available, regardless of need, we should be interested and make an effort to sign them up and if this results in some unexpected casualties then unfortunately this is the price you have to pay to ensure quality amongst your ranks.

However my concern about replacing Hernandez is that we do not have any players who offer the threat that he does, running in behind the defence. His goal against Chelsea recently was a great example of what he does, he stretches teams and always offers the threat in behind. I can's say I have seen loads of Lewandowski so perhaps he does offer this but my thoughts are there isn't to many players in Europe who play on the shoulder of defenders as well as Hernandez.

I also, probably in the minority on here, am a fan of Welbeck. If you look past his goal scoring, Welbeck is an awkward, hard working, team player and I appreciate goals win you matches but I also believe that goal scorers get better with age as they mature and become more composed in goal scoring positions.

RVP, no need to discuss what he brings to the team even though he is in a drought for us at the moment, hopefully his goals for Holland may kick start him again.

Rooney, well this debate will rumble on til the day he leaves United or retires but his goal last night was his 16th in his last 20 games for club and country, regardless of what people make of him as an Individual, he produces more often then not.

So, what do we do with Lewandowski? I think we should sign him up BUT not at the expense of what we have already, goals have not been a problem this year but like I said at the beginning, if he becomes available, we should be interested.

Perhaps Welbeck or/and Rooney's role within the team will change? It's a difficult problem to resolve and unfortunately perhaps an unwanted casualty will occur but I would be gutted if Hernandez was the one to make way.

Hernandez has 16 goals and 10 assists from 28 games 10 of them as a sub

Lol I think I may of read some duff info
There's a lesson to be learned here

Those stats aren't right Jred aha. I think he as 2 assists?

Shall we start with cabaye again? Hernandez is different class, sell him and get lewindawski and I can guarantee we'll all be disappointed next year.
Nomidfield

He has two for us and three for Mexico this season I think. His goal record for Mexico really shows how good he can be if given the chance, he has 30 goals in 45 games. That two goals every three games. Plus he has about 10 assists for Mexico too, so he has played a direct part in 40 goals in 45 games in a team where he is first choice.

If we let him go we WILL regret it.

HoneyBadger

Classic mate ;)

27 Mar 2013 13:35:25
Really interesting one this, with all the talk of a CB being signed, perhaps even maybe two, what are the thoughts of people on either Rio or Vidic leaving end of this season?
I do believe one might either hang up the boots or move away, I am just completely confused by which. Ed anything you guys can offer on this would be welcome. I have a feeling that Rio will retire but that is just a hunch.

PJ

I think Rio will be sold, I can't see him retire. Maybe a transfer for a year at somewhere like West Ham?

Is Rio not out of contract in the summer

Well, sold/released, not too much difference ;)

27 Mar 2013 13:16:14
Eds do you know of any confirmed interest in CP's Johnny Williams at this stage? By United or otherwise.

Thanks,

HBadger {Ed002's Note - No, sorry.}

Dim problem Ed2, thanks anyways.

HBadger

27 Mar 2013 10:46:03
I think most people are getting too exited about the transfer window, we've never signed 3-4 first team players in one window before I'm hoping for a big summer but can't see it, at best I think this will happen

Ins: CB (I'd love mangala) strootman, lewi - first team. And I'd love a couple younger players like zouma and Williams (the welsh kid)

I'd me more than happy with that myself although I think a winger/attacking midfielder type player is still needed.

That sounds realistic to me, although personally I'd prefer we got a top winger rather than a striker or CB.

HBadger

Elroy we have signed 4 first teamers before, back in 2007. We signed Tevez, Nani, Anderson and Hargreaves. All of whom played in the Champions League final against Chelsea.

MEF

4 is realistic + 1 or 2 youngsters.

It's dependent on how many first teamers leave surely? What changes the manager makes is also dependent on if or when he can shift certain players. For example, if Nani had been sold earlier on during last summer's transfer window there probably would have been another signing. The manager cannot bring players in unless he can sell unwanted players already at the club.

27 Mar 2013 09:41:48
Tetrahydro I have watched The Doc's Devils Atkinson's almosts and Fergie's wonderful teams. The reason I make my comment is because like most supporters who have been watching United supporters who have been watching the team for a long time we are very frustrated with the way we play our tactics and the standard of some of our players. Rather than be blind why not take some time think about what I said and correct me if I need correcting. What did I say about any of the players that was wrong? I may not always say things that United supporters like to here but if you take the time and just think about it you may see I am not that far off the truth. I am interested in your thoughts on those players last night and where I was wrong. Are you really happy with United's lack of midfield and the way we always fall back to the end of our box and invite teams on to us. Remember Football is a democracy not a dictatorship just because it is United doesn't always make it right. We all have the right to our own opinions not just what you think you should say as a United supporter

Missed the original post IAK, however can't disagree with content here.
Timbo

Yo KLOOT

I agreed with most of your points last night but it's so predictable - I could have written it on your behalf and got it to 95% accuracy IMO ;) Rooney started well and hardly saw the ball 2nd half. I'm not sure I'd say he drifted out of the game or totally lost his touch - no more than the other 10 English players anyway! The rest I agree with although I think you look for reasons to slate the likes of Young and Cleverly and therefore lose credibility by dragging their names into things too often (I'm talking generally here not just on last night's games).

Regards,

HBadger

Badger I make you right on the fact that I have no time for Young who I consider to be a cheat and a one trick pony who is simply not good enough for the shirt and Cleverley who I see as an over hyped water carrier who disapears every time a team ups the tempo. I think it is "Hello Magazine" persona that puts me off. I should cut him some slack but I am still waiting for him to prove me wrong. Last year I got slated for saying he wasn't the answer to our midfield problems now I think most of the people on here would agree. Is he better than Phil Neville was when he was at the club? No is he better than Gibson was No Greening No. I think he is very lucky to be at the club when we have such a shortage of good midfielders. And that Badge is the whole point of a Football democracy we both have different oppinions about the players but we both want the same for the team.

Kloot, by "last year" I assume you mean last season? Well it was this season you have been slating Cleverley, not last season. He was injured for 90% of last season and he was quality before he got injured. Perhaps it's down to old age, but it's this season you have been slating him, not last season.

He hasn't convinced me yet, but it is still his first proper season so he does need more time. I can say without any shadow that he is already better than the three ex-United players you have mentioned. Never really seen Neville or Gibson burst past players and Greening was a winger so not sure why he is being mentioned.

Cleverley may turn out good, he may not, but it's too early to cast him aside yet. That being said I have always said we shouldn't be standing still as Manchester United, we should still be looking to strengthen the midfield whether Cleverley is here or not. Strootman will add something new, but we will have to wait and see what the manager does this summer.

That's right KLOOT, I feel we understand one another at long last, lol.

I can't disagree too strongly with your views on either player TBH, it's just that you're so definitive with your views whereas I try to appreciate that nothing is black and white, particularly when you need 25 players to make a full squad.

At this moment in time - Cleverly does play like a bit of a water carrier. He is neat and tidy but doesn't do enough to grab games, either defensively or offensively. When I first saw him last season I thought he would kick on more than he has. The difference between us is that I value the fact he came through the academy and I also think there is scope for improvement as his early days were marred by injury. I think we'd be silly to give up on him now as we always need a few Browns, O'Shea's & Gibson's in the squad. Cleverly has been slated by some because SAF has relied so heavily upon him (due to us not buying a decent CM) but it's not his fault we've been left short in the middle it's the manager's! If we had a 'Roy Keane' alongside Carrick with Cleverly on the bench would people be so harsh? I don't think so.

Young - yes he is one footed and yes he goes over easy which I don't like. I actually think Young is a decent squad player though and feel some of your comments on him are OTT. I'd say "not good enough for the shirt" is going a bit far considering some of the players I have seen put on a United shirt! I won't name them from the shame of it. Again, I value the fact that he adds to the british core of the team and that he knows the EPL inside out. So long as we have someone better to start most of the games I'm happy to have Young as an effective and versatile squad player.

When it boils down to it KLOOT, your views and mine are not that far apart - it's just that I like to give our players a chance and the benefit of the doubt, whereas you seem ready to write them off from early doors. Perhaps when all is said and done I will realise you were right all along and I shouldn't have been so soft on our players :) but on the other hand - if SAF was so quick to judge perhaps valuable players such as Evans, Fletcher and Rafael would have been shown the door a long time ago in the face of early critisism.

HBadger

Gav, I think you and KLOOT are from different generations. Simples

AJH

AJH

How is Stevie? ;)

Deeps.

AJH I think it's unfair to imply that KLOOT is a grumpy old man. Shame on you ;)

27 Mar 2013 00:37:22
Hi ED any news on the Young Crystal Palace striker named Joshua Spence, I have heard this guy is tearing up the at academy level and is a lifelong Manchester United fan, Many clubs are interested from what I can gather, do you have any news on him?

P. S also touted as the next Wayne Rooney by England U-18 boss, Says the lad will go far. {Ed002's Note - I have no idea, sorry.}

27 Mar 2013 07:21:37
Some website was having a headline after england game that england got pressed and failed to hold on the advantage.
If people think united midfield is capable enough to hold and stay stubbern to 1 goal lead, they r fooling themselves. Week in week out people promote and slate other posters in favour of there fav player.
But no1 is brave enough or open enough to accept that both united and england need proper enforcer to protect back 4.
I understand back 4 was not regular or real quality. But what's with united? Defence is A class so as goal keeper. but failng to break play in middle costing a lot. England and united both need to find answer for this

Rodio17

United haven't conceded in almost 6 league games and won the last game by holding on to a 1-0 lead, so not sure the timing of this post is really backed up by any stats or facts?

Gds
Then why don't u mention madrid game and fa cup chelsea game.
I m no state wizard but I can see what we are lacking. I don't praise or slate any1 for the sake of doing it.

Rodio17

And gds. wel done. its great to see how comments like urs can manipulate peoples mind. " not conceded "
In the last one saf said they were lucky.
And it looks like u don't consider champions league or fa cup as match

Rodio17

And that 1 - 0 was actually against championship bound reading who for most off later stage of game had united under pressure, we was playing on the break at OT lol, and they should have been given penalty

27 Mar 2013 01:50:34
Hi guys, I watched England tonight, must say dissapointed I'm not an England follower (and I know my country is sh1t) but I want to know your views as to weather hodgson is right for the job. He won't pick the younger players in the bigger games! Surley Ox Chamberlain offers more than Milner. Also I would like to ask if next season you feel we should loan out Powell, Januzaj, Daehli and Will Keane or keep them around the first team?
Cheers.

Caol�n.