Manchester United Banter Archive December 28 2017

28 Dec 2017 16:57:22
I'm not sure if any of you fellas saw the pictures of training today? Quite a number of lads from the youth sides were there. Angel Gomes, Callum Gribbin and RoShaun Williams all took part. Does anyone think we could see some of these lads step up soon? I'm certainly interested to see the development of Angel Gomes and Gribbin as both have immense talent.

28 Dec 2017 17:27:22
Didn't see he pics but good to know. I'd like to think that they take part in senior sessions regularly, it would make sense.

{Ed001's Note - at this time of the year teams often use them to allow tired players to sit out training matches.}

28 Dec 2017 17:33:19
I was thinking the same although i don't think any of them will play in the next game.

It definitely is a good experience for them to train with the first team players.

28 Dec 2017 17:51:01
Ah okay ed001. Thought it's also good experience to see if they can mix it with the top seniors at the club.

{Ed001's Note - it is usually excellent for them, even those that get sent back down, as it gives them a chance to see that they need to work harder to reach the level required.}

28 Dec 2017 19:18:11
If you are still about Ed001, i was wondering if you had any info on the quality of UTD training sessions under Mourinho.

Managers such as Poch, Klopp and Pep are often considered the modern men and my impression is that their training sessions are thought of as very intensive and cutting edge.

Do you (or anyone else) have any info about the differences in training ground approaches from each of the top coaches in the EPL?

{Ed001's Note - every manager is different, so it is difficult to really compare one with 3 others or give out info on training differences as an overall. Jose tends to delegate to his coaches, who take the sessions, while he oversees them. The coaching staff do try and keep up to date on the latest developments, but they have a different outlook and see the game differently from other managers.

Managers like Dyche, Klopp and Pochettino tend to be less hands on and work on developing their players and teamwork. Pep is a micromanager, who wants to manage every single tiny little detail and is extremely intense, which is why he does not last long in a role. It is not just hard for the players to maintain the intensity over a long period, it is also hard to keep them motivated when he is constantly staring over their shoulder. Every move you see them do in the match is pretty much planned out in advance in training, it is not off the cuff like watching Maradona weave his magic. It is a plan they follow to do what they are doing. For me that is not what I enjoy watching, even when it is going well, it just feels too robotic and lacking in flair and imagination.

Managers such as Hodgson concentrate on just drilling the team defensively and then leave the attacking for the players to figure out on the hoof. When he had been at Liverpool for a few months I asked one of the players about the attacking training, as the players were so disjointed, and his reply was 'what attacking training?' He told me they had done nothing at all about breaking down defences, just constant drills and repetitions on stopping the opposition.

Jose's ideas are very similar to that, in that he concentrates a lot on drills but he does work on the attack. However I would put him in the Pep category, in that each match he plans out how he wants the team to play with his dossiers, picks out weak points in the opposition etc and then works in the days up to the game on how to nullify and beat the opponent. It can be seen as negative, but he does always look at ways to win, such as targeting a weak aerial link by asking a taller player to pull onto them and the rest of the team look to play early balls to them. It is very planned and organised, rather than freeflowing and exciting.

He gives his players much more rest and less hard work than Poch, Klopp, Pep, who like to work on 2 sessions a day, while Jose has not tended to do that. What has gone missing though is his tendency to inspire his players to extreme loyalty to him and to want to run through brick walls for him by protecting them from the press. Now he is throwing them under the bus and it is not inspiring the players the way he once was able. That to me is more of a problem than the training sessions, which are usually in line with the latest thinking.}

28 Dec 2017 19:48:10
Great read, thanks. Very interesting.

{Ed001's Note - cheers Beastie.}

28 Dec 2017 20:09:40
Thanks Ed, great read. A few stats show utd as low down the league in sprinting intensity and distance covered. Do you put that down to style of play (low press, direct) or do you believe that utd are perhaps less fit than most teams in the league?

{Ed001's Note - style of play for me. Fitter teams tend to score later in games, which United have done a lot of. If they were fading late in matches, then you would worry about fitness.}

28 Dec 2017 20:50:21
Ed001 whilst on the topic of coaches, do you have any idea how the academy is getting on with regards to developing talent. I know Keiran McKenna is highly thought off and there’s been a bit of an overhaul to our youth recruitment as well, I was just wondering if you think or academy is improving again?

{Ed001's Note - the United academy constantly looks at how it can improve and tries to move forward. They did get caught up in purely looking to make it about making money for the club for a while but a lot has been done to get back to just making it a place for young players to develop in the last couple of years. It will take a few years to show the full benefits but things have defo improved.}

28 Dec 2017 21:08:07
Thanks ed, appreciate the reply! Good to know the academy is doing better, some talents in there. Really interested to see how Chong, Gomes and Gribbin get on personally.

{Ed001's Note - you have brought in some good staff as well recently, should move the club forward.}

28 Dec 2017 21:12:13
Thanks ed001, I tend to agree, but sometimes I also think the players can get a bit lazy or switch off rather than keep the intensity up.

{Ed001's Note - true. Good point.}

28 Dec 2017 22:32:27
Wow Ed001 that is some great info and ins. Fantastic read. Thank you and great questions from thenpostersas well. 👏👏.

{Ed001's Note - cheers mate. You are right they were great questions.}

29 Dec 2017 07:01:21
Lovely post, Ed.

I remember, a couple of years back I was working with a grassroots development company, we picked up a club in the regional league of Punjab and restarted their youth and first team. I was lucky that I got the chance to manage the project and I was working closely with the coach (Spanish fellow) who was managing both the teams.

I remember we'd wake up at 6 in the morning and have drills and sessions that were planned the night earlier for the teams. A lot was based on coordination, interchange of play, linking the defence with the midfield and midfield with the attack and vice-versa. Even the set-piece practice was a joy to watch, simply because the coach knew what he wanted from the team and how he made them accustomed to the drills.

Before every match, we'd go and scout the teams we were to play against and I remember the notes the guy would take and then the drills that followed were based on what he's seen and when the match happened, a lot of those drills and tactics were put into play.

I'm sorry I'm trying to compare the regional leagues here in India, but the post on drills and how the coaches work got me to type all this out.

Thanks, again.

{Ed001's Note - it is all relevant mate, no matter the level.}

28 Dec 2017 12:48:07
Bailly, Zlatan, Mkhitaryan, Pogba, Lukaku, Lindelof, Matic;

These are Jose's signings since arriving, so are these poor buys, are they not performing or is José not getting the best out of them?

Bailly, even tho a tad rash at times I think most agree he, at £30m, is a good buy, especially now you look across at VvD £75m.

Zlatan - an expensive mistake? 28 goals last season, won us the EFL Cup, would have gone onto score more but for a serious injury, I think being an ally to Jose is another reason why he has re-signed, perhaps sentiment clouding views on him.

Mkhitaryan - started off slowly, looked out of sorts, started this season like a house on fire so where has that form gone? Is Jose right to drop him or has he been underperforming?

Pogba - paid top dollar and as so many last season was hit and miss but is he still too much hit and miss, no doubt he's a talent and does seem to influence us a lot which in itself is worrying to rely on just 1 players but there is a lot more to come.

Lukaku - struggle to gauge this one, when he has chances he invariably scores, he gets criticised for not influencing the game but is it Rom not contributing or the team not giving him service?

Lindelof - high reputation but has struggled to settle in, will he get that chance tho.

Matic - possibly Jose's most important buy, started off very well, yet our midfield seems to get bypassed in so many games, is this Matic, no I don't think so.

So in summary for me these players all have ability and have proven it in spurts, why do we seem unable to play at that level for longer than bursts? Is it the youthful nature of most of these players producing inconsistencies or the way they are being asked to play?

28 Dec 2017 13:23:14
Good post WRD, we know what they can do but we are not seeing them do it consistently, I’d also add Martial and Rashford into that category. Pogba was starting to dominate before his injury but is back to being a little careless, I think it I should up o the Manager to get the best of these players.

28 Dec 2017 13:51:23
Its not that Jose has made poor buys and/ or isn't getting the best out of them. Its that his predecessors made poor buys and they aren't good enough. Shaw, Darmian, Rojo, Smalling, etc etc. Are they good enough.

28 Dec 2017 14:07:35
Mort, probably not. But there is no clear starting 11. Lingard gets picked until he has an indifferent game, the same seems to be true for Martial and Rashford, it can’t be helping their confidence.

28 Dec 2017 14:44:12
Did people not say that stones delph sterling where poor buys?
Look good enough at the moment
Shaw looked a great player, darmian was playing very well for Italy when we bought him rojo had just played in a world cup final .
Have they progressed or regressed?

Lingard is doing what few of our players are imo and that's playing to his potential. But the moment that drops he is straight out the team .
Same with martial and rash . you know both are going to get subbed.

Sterling and sane where both very inconsistent last season pep stuck with them and backed them . Look at them now .
Maybe pep should of sold them last season bought some one else and started the process again?

28 Dec 2017 14:49:29
I don’t think any of those signings would make it into the top teams in the world though, and being Manchester United that’s where I’m assuming you’d like to group yourself? So yes it has been poor signings, bailey is good but not great, Pogba has been better than last season but still nothing special, Ibra was quality but ageing, Matic has gone off the boil, miki can’t get a game, Lindelof or however at written is Lovrens lost twin. Are they awful signings? No. Are they great? Definitely not. As mentioned before your best players were there before Mourinho. There really isn’t much value out there at the minute though and any signing will be expensive and so the risk increases. Strange times in the league but I think as fans we all have to wait and see how the season unfolds with regards to cups etc as city have clearly won the league.

28 Dec 2017 15:51:17
In fairness he did try to sell sterling as per 002.

28 Dec 2017 15:59:29
I think in answer to all and especially Tony. Why is mourinho not getting the best out of the players. I have a theory. sorry Ken please don't puke but we have to measure ourselves against the best, and City are the best by light years, they play to a certain system where players have a job to do creating space and high pressing in their respective areas which is around 30yards. So every player has a responsibility to protect the area and to create space within that area. The two exceptions are Silva and KDB who are allowed more freedom. So consequently the team always operates to a certain formula as their responsibilities are clear and confined to their areas.
On the other hand, our team is made up of a lot of very good individuals with no clear or defined system. When we have the ball, our full backs are quite often unsure what to do. When we lose the ball, there's no clear system of winning it back through areas of responsibility. So we start panicking and leaving gaps.
City and Spurs work extremely hard at winning the ball back, as do Barca, and this system seems to have been paying dividends for Barcelona over the years and will do with City.
Two stumbling blocks is mourinho does not play the system and the players are not interested in the hard work it takes to play it.
So for as long as mourinho is in charge, we will continue to look lethargic and chaotic when we lose the ball. We will also look like a selection of strangers.

28 Dec 2017 16:07:44
Our issue is that our best players are not playing consistently at their highest level. And unfortunately for whatever reason that is happening at the same time. I think Jose has bought well on the most part. Bailly, matic, pogba, Lukaku is a very strong spine. We are lacking a quality pair of full backs which is killing our game imo. Shaw has been very good imo in the games he has played but for whatever reason Jose doesn’t rate him and I don’t expect him to be here next season unfortunately. Football has evolved and the full backs are expected to like wingers and All the top teams have a threat from these positions. We are effectively playing with half an attack without quality full backs. I expect Jose to address both positions in the next two windows.

Mkhitaryan has been a disappointing signing which is a shame as he is very talented. I expect Lindelof to come good but the signings pre Jose have been atrocious and we have poured money down the drain. The proof is in the pudding that only blind, darmian and Rojo are left and all 3 I expect will be moved on come the summer. These next two transfer windows are integral for us. We must address the deficiencies in the squad and the owners must back Jose. I don’t want to get into whether Jose has spent enough or not because I feel it is irrelevant. But we must identify signings which are correct for our style of play and get them in as every single top 6 team will improve on next year. I personally think Van Dijk is a very good signing for the scousers and although overpriced, he is better than what they currently have (not hard) .

And answering johnbarnesleftpeg - I disagree that none of our signings wouldn’t get into the top teams. Pogba, Bailly, matic would walk into your team and would not look out of place in city’s team. I actually think that martial would be doing wonders if he was playing under pep right now. And perhaps even rashford although I’ve been extremely disappointed with him recently as he has looked very out of sorts. Perhaps we rated him better than he is because I actually think he is a headless chicken who lacks composure.

28 Dec 2017 16:19:32
If Sanchez came in Sterling wouldve been out or wouldn't have played as many games as he has this season.

28 Dec 2017 17:36:06
Stuck with sterling? I thought he wanted rid?

{Ed001's Note - he did try and sell him in the summer.}

28 Dec 2017 17:45:36
Sanchez will be the end of aguero.

28 Dec 2017 10:47:49
Ed002, do you expect some new signings in January or will they wait now until the summer given the league positions with city do far ahead.
?

{Ed002's Note - I really cannot sensibly answer questions about timing. It is much harder to buy players in the January as clubs would need a replacement. However, there are players on the MU list that may well be available to join in January.}

28 Dec 2017 11:32:12
Completely silly post coming up but here is my January transfer dealings I'd like to see although unlikely to happen:

Out
Darmian, Rojo, Blind, Fellaini (clearly wants out so sell him on)

In
Evans, Rose, Özil or Barkley (given the prices quoted we'd be mad not to go for one now with their contracts coming to an end), TFM and Pereira recalled, Tanuzebe to replace Darmian, Goretzka

Ps why not give Martial or Rashford a go up top to give Lukaku a rest?

28 Dec 2017 12:15:52
Realistically.
Isn't it to much of movement for January window?

28 Dec 2017 12:11:45
Would only take Ozil out of them. Maybe Goretzka. Aim higher than Evans, Rose injury prone, don't rate Barkley.

28 Dec 2017 12:33:38
Evans as in Jonny Evans?

28 Dec 2017 14:56:30
Absolutely bang on the money eric79, that was a silly post.

28 Dec 2017 21:18:10
Thank you. I’m here all week.

Although selling Evans and replacing him with Rojo was pure stupidity.

28 Dec 2017 11:03:13
I’m loving the Jose debate and it has remained relatively civil despite the obvious passion. There are facts we can agree on and opinions where we will differ.

Facts (hopefully)
In his last year’s SAF regularly talked about no value in the market and left an ageing squad.
The midfield in particular was weak with Giggs continuing into his 40’s and Scholes being asked to come out of retirement.

Where we did spend money it was with mixed results, RVP was an inspired buy and pretty much won us our last title.
Moyes was a poor appointment and he has stated that he didn’t get enough support I the transfer market.

LVG was another mistake although the purse strings started to loosen.
Jose seemed a strong appointment to most and has also had money to spend.
We broke the world transfer record when buying Pogba and the internal British record when we bought Lukaku. We have also bought many other players for pretty hefty fees.

Some purchases have been good, some show promise, some simply didn’t work out: Depay, Schweinsteiger, Schneiderlin to name 3.
The team won 2 trophies last year (to make us the most successful English club) and got back into the Champions League.
Our spending is up there with pretty much everyone bar PSG and possibly City

Now we move onto opinions
We haven’t spent enough.
I don’t agree with this one, I think we have spent enough but we have bought players who are not good enough or who have yet to demonstrate they are.

Jose is not committed
He continues to live in a hotel, he batted his eyelids at PSG, his track record does not instil confidence he will do more than 3 years. However, he may be committed, but only in the way he has committed to his previous clubs.

We’re really struggling
I sort of agree but the League table still looks healthy. The worry is our current form, is it a dip (like Spurs had) or something more serious. Time will tell.

Jose should be doing better with the players he has
This one I agree with. I maintain that we have players who are simply not performing to the level they could and should be. We seem to change formation and selection too often and I’m not clear how we are trying to play.

Jose is a miserable sod
I posted on Christmas Day morning about Jose, he is no longer the cheeky chirpy joker we first saw at Chelsea. I know that was a long time ago but he just seems spiky to me and unhappy. Perhaps this is his press conference demeanour and with the players he is incredibly inspirational but I’m not sure I buy that? The meltdown at Chelsea has never properly been explained. The players effectively downed tools which led to his sacking and then won the League the year after.

I think he has too much to say and needs to get back to improving the players we have but I fear he feels he cannot compete because f what others are spending.

28 Dec 2017 13:36:09
Agree with your observations Tony, but would add the lack of passion/ workrate of our players. When we lose the ball, there's no urgency to recover, lack lustre tracking back and they all look knackered from the first whistle. Is it over training, lack of training or the medical condition - aka primadonnaritis?
Not usually big on stats, but we are way down on EPL distance covered as both a team and individually. Hope I'm wrong but JM's misery seems to be infecting the team and if that's the case we saw what could happen as at Chelsea.

28 Dec 2017 14:08:39
That’s a good point cooky, in this day of pressing it’s not something we have been / seem able to embrace.