Manchester United Banter Archive June 28 2014

28 Jun 2014 23:10:42
Going off previous reports, LvG has stated that he really likes the way both Mata and Kagawa play. Therefore, does this mean that he's going to accommodate both do you think? If so, where do you see him fitting both in?

Is it plausible that he may try Herrera as the deeplying midfielder with Kagawa and Mata playing the 'Xavi and Iniesta' role? Or will he play Kagawa further forward and look to bring in another holding midfielder, i.e. Carvalho, De Jong etc. From what everyone is saying about LvG, Kagawa doesn't seem to fit the mould of the more advanced forward role as he seems to prefer pace in the outside forward positions, e.g. Robben in Netherlands.

I really hope we bring in Depay, he is so direct and quick, and has great end product for his age. However, back to the question, if it is true that LvG holds both Kagawa and Mata in such high regard, where do you see him fitting them both in?

28 Jun 2014 23:40:31
I'm not necessarily sure the two of them can always be accommodated into the same starting 11 but squad rotation and depth are important so I don't really see much of an issue.

29 Jun 2014 00:05:54
Herrera has the mobility we have craved so I hope he plays box2box/no. 8 role. That would mean ideally someone to sit deep and dictate play (Carrick or replacement) then only room for one AM, be that Mata/Kags/Rooney. That would be far more solid than having both play and would allow our front 3 to have the freedom to attack IMO. It would also bring the best out of Herrera rather than shackling him in the holding role.

29 Jun 2014 00:18:32
4-3-2-1
Midfield 3 of Herrera, Vidal and Strootman with Van Persie up top and Mata and Kagawa linking midfield and attack? Lacks width I know but we would never be over run in midfield. plus Nomidfield would be forced into a name change surely

I don't believe he ever said that about Kags it was a twitter rumour

The amount of times I see man utd fans saying mata and kagawa could be used like iniesta and xavi at barca amuses me, this isn't fifa 14 here, poor herrera would not be able to shine at his new club if you partner him up with two number tens in the middle of midfield. be all well and good when we have the ball but what about when we need to win it back, is herrera just going to do the job of 3 men? LVG is going to have lots of touch decisions to make when he arrives and one of them will be who is his first choice attacking midfielder/number 10. mata is streets ahead of kagawa and a proven premier league player so its not really tough in my opinion.

We are on about the same Kagawa that won German League player of the year TWICE when LvG was Bayern manager, right? Doesn't seem like a far fetched comment, surely?!

I agree with the Herrera comment, I was just scratching my head in an attempt to understand where and how LvG will fit them all in IF that comment was ever made! Looking forward to pre-season, that's for sure!

29 Jun 2014 02:21:46
Pipe down StretfordEnder! I merely posted a potentially interesting scenario for people to post their views on, and certainly didn't warrant your b/s chirping up response. Too many arrogant people on here acting above everyone else with their 'expert' input.

Anyway, I think it is very likely that LvG will tinker between the 10/RAM/LAM positions through Rooney/Mata/Kagawa/Adnan, and hopefully there will be a perfect balance between defence and attack at the end of it all. I for one literally can't wait until the season starts to see United develop into an LvG team. Exciting times

"amuses me." about as condescending as you get. hear hear man from. it's getting far too cliquie here.

I can see us getting a second CM for the holding role with Carrick rotating when needed. Dependant on what youngsters we bring through and attacking players we sign I imagine one of Rooney/Mata/Kagawa getting released.
Van Gaals desire for moment suggests Mata. my own feeling is Rooney could be the one! We also have Powell to come in who played this role well last year all be it at a lower level.
For mE none of these should play in a front 3 of a 433 system. If we go 4231 or 352 then there is more scope.

I can see Kagawa playing on the left wing myself Mata behind the striker and Adnan on the right

28 Jun 2014 21:30:33
Oh my God! I am totally g@y for James Rodriguez ;) what a player

You Just want him for his Dancing. Its Hypnotic lol

28 Jun 2014 21:01:04
Now Chile are out will Ed get the rest of our signings sorted, Sanchez and Vidal? ;)

{Ed004's Note - I don't know what Ed is doing. Chile were out out over an hour ago and we haven't signed either yet. Surely he should be sacked for his incompetence}

Typical yes man, just another Glazer Puppet, Kloot what do you make of this?

It's getting ridiculous it's coming up to 36 hrs now and no signings I think Van Haal has lost the board and dressing room!

Who is Van Hall?

Not sure about Van Haal but I am pretty sure Van Hall is just a hall for vans!

You got the glazer puppet right anyway

28 Jun 2014 18:33:17
I personally think a winger is more important than a cb at the minute giving nani and young are are useless. And Valencia wouldn't get in my local pub team. And that winger should be Sanchez, he's available we've shown interest in the past it really is a no brainer.

Agree we should go for Sanchez, his work rate is awesome for his country, way better than what we have currently.

But we can play without wingers for the minute, a centre back is essential none of our centre backs would get in any of the top 4's teams bar maybe jones

I agree. A winger should be our priority right now and then a solid centre back and another CM.

28 Jun 2014 19:22:59
Championship winning sides are built from the back.

A top winger would be really nice.However, a top CB is really necessary.

The only thing that makes me less concerned about our wingers is that maybe. just maybe with good attack coaching and a structure that Van gaal will bring maybe they won't be as bad this year. These are after all the same ones that won the title!

Usually the Team that Challenges and Wins the League is that which concedes the least Goals. Maybe we should sure up before we add the abundant numbers in Attack even if some are not worth considering to start for our great club

Jonny Evans 2 seasons ago was our best defender and was keeping rio and vidic apart if he can stay fit with jones. That's a big if? The main reason I feel we need a winger now is because other clubs will snap them up

28 Jun 2014 17:26:19
Anyone else think we will be using Luke Shaw in midfield out wide?

Why would we spend around 30 million on a position we desperately needed to address and then play the player in midfield or out wide?

No way. He'll be playing left back.

28 Jun 2014 18:28:20
No. Why would we. That's insane.

28 Jun 2014 18:48:00
Let's hope not, he needs to play left back.

No. He's the best left back in the league. We desperately need a left back. Ergo he'll be played at left back.

Supposedly been told he's first choice LB

28 Jun 2014 21:38:52
Bale started as a left back. I can't imagine Evra signing an extension to be used as back up when he is at the end of his career. It was only a thought that crossed my shallow empty mind.

28 Jun 2014 21:51:26
I knew this was a weak string Theory based on the Assumption Bale And Shaw were both from Southampton Both Playing Left Back and Both Potentially very good. I just don't see this happening. Not one bit. Evra Needs replacing and we bought a Left Back. 1+1=?

Well its obvious to anyone who watched football last year that shaw will be first choice. evra although I love the guy for what he's done for the club was a complete liability time after time.

Jrobbm, 7?

28 Jun 2014 15:39:53
Rio's legs might have gone, but the man speaks sense. I totally agree with him that buying Varane and Pogba would be the way forward for the club. It would address most of our problem areas with young players who will be at the top of their game for the next 5 to 10 years.

Don't get me wrong, I would not say no to Vidal and hummel in actual fact I might have what top gear call a full on man crisis and need a change of pants. I just think poignant and varane's ages mean they are a longer term solution.

Pogba is making you poignant?

28 Jun 2014 18:31:25
Sorry Mumbai, just the thought of Vidal and hummels clearly sent me over the edge.

I have been one if woody's biggest critics. If he carets on like this I will be sending him a Xmas hamper.

28 Jun 2014 13:56:19
Bruno martins Indi to porto for 8.5 million euros, bargain. Replaces mangala and be worth similiar amount in couple of years.

Absolute bargain imo.

Mangala hasn't been convincing whenever I have seen him, Indi on the other hand has been unspectacular yet solid for Holland.

28 Jun 2014 13:08:18
Did people see the Dwight Yorke interview on TV today where he said that he has heard that we are trying to get 6 or 7 players? Sounds like LVG is trying to overhaul the squad, if Ed can get the players he wants. Interesting summer ahead hopefully.

28 Jun 2014 12:32:58
What would you do if in charge?
3 targets CM, CB, Attacker 60m in the kitty?

for me CM i'd bid. 35m + nani for vidal.
swap chich for vertongan

pay 25m for pedro

28 Jun 2014 13:11:15
All £60m on Vidal. With no Champions League football and a general reluctance to sell from Juve, I fear it will take a huge sum of money to secure his services. Would be worth every penny though.

28 Jun 2014 12:23:09
Good morning all,
2 great signings i'm really pleased with them as players they both have fantastic ability and limitless potential. Ander is actually 6' tall he does not look it he will be superb.
Many posts wondering what area of the team needs attention next. For me it is another CM CB and Wide attacker in that order
My tip for next season is that LVG turns Zaha into a proper player there is no doubting the talent is there

28 Jun 2014 12:06:46
12 o clock and we've not signed anyone yet today! Come on ed pull your finger out

28 Jun 2014 11:14:56
What would everyone prefer?

Vidal and hummels. with rooney at the centre of the 3 behind the striker and mata on the sides or

Robben and hummels. With rooney in midfield with herrera with januzaj mata and robben behind rvp?

thoughts?

28 Jun 2014 11:39:06
Neither would work i'm afraid. Mata is ineffective played wide and Rooney isn't good enough in midfield.

Vidal and Hummels. I think Vidal deep, Herrera in between and Rooney in the middle too. Mata behind the strikers. I have posted the above team on the teams page.

28 Jun 2014 12:00:20
i would love vidal and hummels. we are quite strong in attacking front. So instead of spending too much in one window ,i would rather buy reus in next transfer window

I think Vidal hummels robben or sanchez and that would be an excellent summer.
I will play Herrera Vidal Rooney in middle and mata sanchez behind rvp.

28 Jun 2014 10:39:29
Lots of talk going on about centre backs but I'm not so sure it's a priority area. I genuinely believe Smalling, Jones and Evans need time to establish themselves - remember Smalling's first season?! He was immense! And Evans and Jones have received rave reviews on occasion. When assessing their performances to date you have to keep in mind that a player cannot be expected to demonstrate their best form, or even reach their true potential, on the strength of a couple of cameo appearances over the course of a season. My only concern is that the three seem highly susceptible to injury and thus cannot be relied upon, then again, this could also be considered an artefact of intermittent match day involvement.

Long story short, I hope LVG gives the centre backs at our club a chance rather than looking elsewhere for a quick fix. All of these guys are relatively young, add Rafael and Shaw to that and you have an established defence for the best part of the next decade. If time has taught us anything it is that the defence that stays together wins together.

I think we need an older centre back to pair with one of them. Miranda and Jones would work well.

We have three centre backs who started about 60 games between them last season due to injuries. Two of them played a large portion of their games at rb and cm. And none of them have shown that they are capable of organising a defence at the top level.

We have lost a huge amount of experience in Vidic and Rio, and even though they were in decline (rapid in Rio's case), you can't really believe that three injury prone players and a few promoted youth players will be good enough for a top side? Our defence was awful last season and if we don't buy at least one top class experienced cb this summer we will be annihilated by any decent side. There's a reason why Vlaar is playing at the heart of the Dutch defence (I'll give you a hint it isn't because he's the most talent defender in the world), so thankfully van Gaal isn't naive enough to forget the need for experience at the back.

No chance, as u say, they're always injured. And non of them are world class. We need a spine down the middle. Da gea is up there. Vidal will be great and rvp is world class. That only leaves centre back, we have to get a world class CV, because non of the ones we've got come anywhere near being world class.

28 Jun 2014 13:59:59
And would you be happy with not a single English player making up this spine you speak of NoMid? I wouldn't. We are an English club and thus have an obligation to our English players. I have no problem with the club buying another CB, but not at the expense of another central midfielder (given your name I should imagine you will appreciate this). Once the midfield is sorted teams will stop running through us and our defence will look less vulnerable.

I see a lot of people suggesting we sign Martins-Indi or Vermaelen (spelling?). Don't get me wrong, I'm a fan of both players, but are they really better than what we already have at our disposal? The main point I'm trying to make is that it is a little harsh to write-off Jones and Smalling before they've even been given a chance. You say neither have ever organised a defence at the highest level, but how are they meant to if they're constantly played out of position.

Don't underestimate the LVG effect, he is working wonders with a distinctly average Netherlands squad at the moment and I fully expect the same reaction from our squad.

Nobody is writing Jones and Smalling off. What people are saying is that a top club needs more than three injury prone central defenders, especially when two of them lack experience and have played more games out of central defence than in it for the club.

I'll say this unequivocally: if anyone thinks this club can get back to the top four without buying at least one quality central defender, they are absolutely clueless.

I couldn't care a less if the centre back is English or what, I support UTD over England, we shouldn't be playing jones or smalling just because thy are English, we are utd and we should have world class centre backs not English centre backs that are not nearly near that standard

I couldn't care a less if the centre back is English or what, I support UTD over England, we shouldn't be playing jones or smalling just because thy are English, we are utd and we should have world class centre backs not English centre backs that are not nearly near that standard

28 Jun 2014 17:00:47
Sorry, RedDevil. I'm an Ulsterman, but I feel strongly that an English team should have an English spine if possible.

Mourinho knew that first time round with Chelsea, and all the major teams have a smattering of players that confirm the national identity of the team.

I do agree that we need another older, experienced defender in there, but I would be loathe to go down the City route, or ape Arsenal who've played games without a single Englishman in their team.

28 Jun 2014 17:09:49
Clueless for having an opinion that differs from yours Danny? My response to that: ignorant and closed-minded.

Jones and Smalling clearly have talent, who knows how far that talent can take them. But defenders require experience to develop the tactical awareness to become accomplished in their position.

All I'm saying is that Jones and Smalling deserve a chance, after last season's fiasco they aren't going to get that and that is unfortunate. It wasn't too long ago that most on here were uttering words to the same effect but confidence in our own youngsters seems to be at an all time low.

Thank god some teams still take a chance and develop youth, otherwise these world class players we so desperately need might be in short supply.

RedDevil,

I couldn't care less how patriotic you are in terms of football, but can imagine you'd be spraying your shorts if England won the World Cup.

No, you're clueless for having a ridiculous opinion that fails to take account of the basic realities and practicalities that a team competing in the EPL faces.

You're arguing that we should start next season with a grand total of three recognised central defenders. These three defenders were injured for large chunks of the last two seasons, and two of them are also our main cover for our injury prone right back. With two other central defenders our defence shipped 65 goals last term, and Carrick even had to fill in at centre back on a few occasions because of injuries.

Do you honestly think that three recognised central defenders is enough for a EPL squad? Smalling and Jones will get games under van Gaal (like they have under SAF and Moyes) and hopefully as central defenders. But the idea that we should head into a season without buying players that the squad desperately needs just so we can be seen to promote young English players is one of the dumbest things I've heard here in a long time.

28 Jun 2014 19:19:53
Sign caulker, English and centre back. So your both happy

28 Jun 2014 20:00:54
If we are going to continue this debate Danny, you need to actually read what I've written. I may be clueless but you are seemingly illiterate.

Just to paraphrase for you (wouldn't want you to have to read through my previous posts and inevitably misinterpret more of the content): I said I don't consider centre back a priority area, especially at the expense of another midfielder (even with Herrera we are still lacking in the middle of the park). I'm not opposed to the signing of another centre back, but would rather that wasn't to the detriment of Jones and Smalling's development (who I would like to see as United and England's long-term CB pairing), which it inevitably will be. I even expressed my concerns about their collective injury record, yet you continue to argue a point that I originally made.

If a CB is to be bought, I agree with Fresh, an older head that won't displace Jones or Smalling for 5-6 years would be ideal.

I'm curious, how big a squad do you think we need considering we won't be involved in any European competition?

Stevie, couldn't agree more, it will be a dark day if Manchester United field a starting eleven without an English player. I look at Spanish and German club sides, they all have this strong national identity you speak of and the associated national teams are flourishing.

28 Jun 2014 08:59:29
Hope this Miranda talk is true, better than Vermaelen and is an older head at the back which we badly need. Miranda, Vidal and Robben would be perfect. Wouldn't turn my nose up to alternatives like Khedira and Sanchez though.

Imagine this - Miranda this year to help give authority at the back and to assist the growth of Jones, Smalling and Evans, THEN next year we bring in Hummels at his peak to partner the newly experienced centre backs! Problem = solved!

Not true met and you should stop reading half this stuff LOL.

28 Jun 2014 10:35:32
Fresh the Phrase 'Moon on a stick' Comes to mind. Personally I feel we have done better in the markets than I was expecting already lol. I would Love to have Vidal though. Although I am in Awe of Robbens ability I am not convinced I'd like him at United. The way he throws himself to the ground at every opportunity. I despise it

28 Jun 2014 11:37:13
Fresh he's over priced and to me not good enough. I think he's the sort of player who would struggle to adapt to England both the country and the game. The fees too high and basically he's just had the season of his career. Back in August ir January no one was touting hi, I bet most people on here had never heard of him.

Joefletch so 25 million on Miranda this summer and 30 million on hummels next summer and hummels partners Jones or smalling so what happens to Miranda? When did we become Chelsea?

28 Jun 2014 07:52:24
Hi ED's and other experts on this site a question for u all.

"In case" if we don't sign anyone now in the midfield, do u all think LVG will give our current youngsters a chance, as he did with the Netherlands squad.

Will Pereira, Lawrence, lingard, Janko feature more in the games this year?

I doubt it. It really does depend what happens with Anderson, Fletcher, Carrick, Clevs, Fellaini - they will all start ahead of youngsters, especially as we don't have Europe. I'm sure the club will be trying to sell most of them, but I don't think we will have too much joy for one reason or another.

Beast - Everton apparently want TC and Anderson was in Brazil trying to get a move to Santos (again, apparently) so they might go off the books. I agree that we won't see a huge amount of the youth this season, but some will get their chance in the cups and, if they really impress, may get a place on the subs bench in the league.

28 Jun 2014 01:26:40
Quick question want to hear your thoughts.

Would you pay 25m+ for Miranda or test spurs resolve and bid 15m for vertonghen.

Hypothetically if spurs were to accept who would you prefer?

1) Miranda - who has been one of the best centre backs around for the last while.

2) vertonghen - 27 years of age with premier league experience and solid on his day.

A very good argument IMO.

Cheers
JR

I feel we have to go for the best player out of the two. If the club are willing to pay the money being spoken about for Miranda then I'd go with him. He's been superb for Atletico and probably in the top 3/4 CB's in Europe over the last season.

We need to sign the best available players not just players who will do a good job and be solid. We've bought enough of that over the last few years. If we got Miranda in before pre season we would have covered 3 of the 4 major areas we need to address.

I would take Vertonghen. for his premier league and age.

My worry with Vertonghen is his injury record. With Smalling, Evans and particularly Jones so brittle, we really need our experienced CB so be pretty robust. For that reason I'd go for Miranda out of the two (though obviously I'd prefer Hummels).

Its a good question on one hand I think Miranda is exactly what we need, had a great season but age and price are against him.I mentioned Vertonghen last year and there were mixed views he is prem proven and can play a variety of positions but still looks like he has a calamitous mistake in him.
Personally I would Prefer Miranda but at a better price i, e £12/15 mil

I would take neither :)

Age isn't a big problem with Miranda for me. He looks much fitter than most CB's of his age and if we get 3-4 years of quality out of him that will be around the time that Jones & Smalling should reach their best - I have a feeling we will be waiting a lot longer than that but the club obviously rate them.

I think Miranda would be a good option for thenext 3/4 years and if he did not work could still be ssold back to Spanish club for £10M so not a great risk.
I can't see Hummels or that level coming in this year so Miranda is probably our best option with experience. Would give Jones/Smalling/Evans the year to state there claim to thto be a first team regular going forward. If we then get CL football back who knows who we will bring in.

28 Jun 2014 11:45:17
I agree with gcu, verthongen isn't great and Miranda seems this weeks fad player

I'm with Shahram, neither. I know we need a CB but I think we need to look elsewhere

Miranda is no fad player. If you watch athletico for the past couple of years, Miranda has been superb. He's very tenacious and is very committed.
Having said that, hummels will be my choice.

28 Jun 2014 13:15:44
I think its clear people will have their doubts over any player we sign - personally I think Hummels would be superb regardless of him not having any PL experience, but can't see it happening.

Also Surely if someone like Varane became available we should offer the same amount if not slightly more for him, the boy is younger with so much potential - He would be a great improvement.

I still don't know if A CB would be a priority of mine, i'm hoping we get another Shock and woody gets the chequebook out for Vidal (That would be ideal)

Certainly do not think that is the last of our signings this summer - Well. Here's Hoping.

28 Jun 2014 13:21:16
Nomid its only been this week people have been saying to sign him. As I have said elsewhere noone has mentioned and half the people on here probably never heard of him till the champions league semis. I've seen a few atleti games over last two years and he hasn't stood out we could do better for the price being banded around.

28 Jun 2014 00:03:43
Exciting times.
A experienced centre back is needed more than anything now. At least 1 of jones, smalling and evans will become a great centre half for us but they need some experience with them for a year or 2. Be happy with Miranda.
Then another top CM and a winger. Get all 3 we will be winning some trophies again next season.

Agreed Will - If we spend big this summer we won't need to again for a long time. Vidal, Sanchez/Robben and Miranda completes us for a few years. Maybe a replacement for RVP next season but that's it.