Manchester United Banter Archive September 28 2012

 

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28 Sep 2012 22:43:30
Reported that Nani may be on his way out the door now more than ever after a training ground bust up with Davide Petrucci. The story is set to be released by the Daily Mail and if you watched the reserve game you will see Petrucci had a black eye which obviously happened from the bust up, this is also said to be the reason for why Petrucci was not involved against Newcastle incase of a head injury from the fight.

RedKnight

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It could be said if the Mail are right that it is the only decent right cross that Nani has put in for some time ;)

The answer would be for Petrucci to be in today's squad with Nani left out. If true SAF will move heaven and earth to get Nani out the door in January, although he should have done it in summer. I seem to recall RVN having a bust up with Ronaldo and he wasn't around long after that, so likely that is the end of Nani. I seem to recall Nani practices a form of martial arts , Capoiera, which makes his lack of control more appalling.

I just hope we chose his replacement well, Not Gaitan for a start, personally I would look at Muniain or Isco, both offer more than Nani

Red Man

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Hope so, I think the problem is going to be finding a club that is willing to pay what we want and getting him to agree to go. Never know SAF might decide to take less 18-20 million and get rid off him if it is starting to have a negative influence around the club. Shahram

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28 Sep 2012 21:58:42
Hearing about Nani hitting petrucci, I know players argue and fight at every club but what's all that about??

Del Boy!

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28 Sep 2012 22:28:17
--------De Gea----------
Rafael---Ferd---Evans----Evra
-------Carrick--Scholes-------
Clevs------Rooney-----Kagawa
-------------RVP--------------

(for tomorrow) Valencia is injured so I think Clevs is an option. The way Nani has been playing he dos not deserve the place IMO.
Thoughts/suggestions?

Dan

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The problem is we're stuck with Nani til at least January so we need him to perform. We're short on wingers due to injuries as it is. So with Valencia out I think it's a good opportunity to give Nani a run on the right, his preferred flank. Finger's crossed he does OK, regains his confidence and can convert that into a few goals and assists whilst Valencia and Young are unavailable

Gav

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28 Sep 2012 21:58:53
Interesting program on channel 5 at the moment its all about a relegation battling premiership clubs preseason tour. Bookedredmole

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28 Sep 2012 20:42:44
I'm finding it quite hard to understand the mentality of this forum. Up until Wednesday, Valencia was undroppable and it was snorted at to even post your thoughts on a team without him in the starting line up. I'm aware that he's injured now, but after 1 meaningless game everyone has decided we no longer need wingers. Admittedly we played a blinder against Newcastle midweek, but by the logic on here, we should be starting Cleverley and Anderson for every game (which is something I think we should be doing anyway) yet some people are dropping the 2 that made it work yet keeping the same formation. Personally I think we should be playing more of a 433 or 4231, wingers have been United's main feature for the last 20 years, maybe we should just be switching to ball playing wingers. Nani anybody? ;)

Percy

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We played a blinder v Newcastle??

Are you joking mate?

By all accounts yes we played better than we had previously this season but was that hard?

Eh no!

We played a newcastle reserve team with our fringe lot so you would expect a good performance. Ando is not good enough the same as Nani but for different reasons of course.

I fully agree with the 4-3-3 against better teams and 4-2-3-1 against weaker teams and an unfit fletcher showed how the shielding CM should be played full stop. Without a doubt the best part of the Newcastle game. I can only hope some doubters in his ability can see what he brings to the team even when match unfit and in his first outing. Maybe if your beloved Nani could produce the same he would have many more supporters on here!

IMO the 4-3-3 can work with Toni and another top LW who can play as even though Toni's short game is not e best his 1-2's and breaking into space make him a top candidate for the wide berth as bar as main fault is they always break centrally where as with toni we can vary it and keep the opposition guessing.

Same in the 4-2-3-1. The fact is we have a potent forward lot but the CM is not good enough to carry off the 4-2-3-1 yet. We need ball players who can keep it under pressure in the middle. Cabaye and Vidal would be an ideal CM who can work in both the 4-2-3-1 and the 4-3-3. If we had that with Clevs, Carrick, Petrucci and Powell IMO we would be sorted next season for the CM.

Nani? Na not for me mate especially if recent rumours are to be believed!

Jono

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Percy, I like Valencia but we are being overrun in the middle. Another approach such as the one on Wednesday might be the answer. Decide on a system, then pick the players, not the other way round. With Rafael and Buttner, we can have width but also more options through the middle.

AJH

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Jono

That was my point, we played amazingly in a meaningless match. And it would appear that Nani is cracking up, hitting a team mate doesn't seem like him, but if it is true then I think recent media and managerial pressure has got to him.

Percy

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A meaningless match? A competition that can get you into Europe! It's that attitude that shows how spoiled some fans are!

Ports

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Valencia could always play in Rafael's spot lads. They could easily share that position and like Buttner can share Evra's position. Then if we need to change the formation mid-game we can bring Rafael on, move Valencia upfront and bring Young onto the left replacing a midfielder like Anderson.

Sydney!

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28 Sep 2012 20:06:45
We're almost certainly gonna play wingers against Spurs IMO. Bale (even if he plays LB), and Walker are threats, and so far this season Lennon has been as good as any winger in the league. We only have Nani whose natural position is a winger though... So...

My prediction:

______Lindegaard
Rafael__Rio__Evans__Evra
____Carrick__Scholes
Nani____Kagawa____Rooney
_________RVP

Though it wouldn't surprise me to see Welbeck or Giggs in the place of Rooney.

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28 Sep 2012 18:34:51
been away for a bit lads - have I missed
anything? Don't have time to go through two week's posts

Puzzled

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Yeah, we beat you at Anfield.

G.A.G.U.S

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Where have you been Puzzled ? - checking out how to get to the away games in the championship?
:)
Mike

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G.A.G.U.S although I was away I did see
that game. You were played off the park for the bigger part of the game. Needless to say you got a penalty and needless to say we had a man sent off, whilst the man with the two footed lunge (in the same incident) escaped any kind of censure - luck that isn't it?
By the way - how DOES Evans get into a premiership team?

Puzzzled

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28 Sep 2012 14:48:53
poss team against spurs,no direct wingers i know but any thoughts!

de gea
rafael--evans --ferdinand--evra

-fletcher-

-cleverley--anderson-

rooney--kagawa

-van persie-

-JB-

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I'd like that team but maybe Buttner instead of Evra but I imagine Carrick in for Fletcher and Lindengaard for De Gea.

Not my choices but what I think will happen.

Ports

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Like it although swap butter for Evra and I think Carrick will play unfortunately

Mad Hatter

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This would be my team, apart from Butter for Evra as he would get up and down a lot better

AJH

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__________De Gea
___Rafael__Rio__Evans__Evra(i would have choosen Buttner)
____________Carrick
_____Anderson____Cleverley
____Kagawa_________Rooney
______________RVP

RamoN 19

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------------DDG
RAF----RIO------EVANS--BUTT

------------CARRICK
---CLEV ---------------ANDSN

-----NANI----RVP----ROONEY

MD_11

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28 Sep 2012 14:42:14
For your interest- This is the points accumulated [to date] from the very start of the PL. No surprise to see at the top... (hmm wonder where chelsea were pre-abramovich (?). Also I forgot that villa were top 6 or there abouts a lot, especially in the 90's- city... well I leave that to you lot !).

Gooner for life. EPL Points:
1. Manchester United - 777 games, 1675 points
2. Arsenal - 777 games, 1458 points
3. Chelsea - 777 games, 1415 points
4. Liverpool - 777 games, 1336 points
5. Tottenham Hotspur - 777 games, 1094 points
6. Aston Villa - 777 games, 1093 points
7. Everton - 777 games, 1044 points
8. Newcastle United - 697 games, 1025 points
9. Blackburn Rovers - 696 games, 970 points
10. Manchester City - 587 games, 793

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28 Sep 2012 13:08:03
Hello All. Now that the dust has settled from the most refreshing game of football we have seen from United in a long while, I wonder will SAF keep to this formation.
I think we were all surprised to see Fletcher doing so good for so long. There were lots of times where he just was not quite quick/fit enough, but after being out for so long I thought he performed brilliantly.
The formation was what so many of us here were looking for. A big difference between Wednesday and previous games was that SAF used 3 midfielders in the centre, rather than 2 midfielders and a forward. For example, when he played Carrick and Giggs in midfield against Liverpool, Kagawa was coming deep to make it 3 in the centre, but then moved forward into a natural attacking position when he didn't have the ball. If he had played Ando (or Cleverely) as a third midfielder than Ando would have moved back into his natural position, which was central midfield.
I think this is the biggest mistake SAF is making (I Know, I know - who am I to talk, but I'm just giving my own humble opinion - it is after all a "banter" site). If he is trying to emulate Barca then he has to see that Busquets plays Fletcher's position and Xavi/Iniesta plays Ando/Cleverely's positions. Barca always have 3 central midfielders. SAf is incorrect in playing a 433 with no DM. the Dm is the bedrock of the central trio. 433 without a DM is a 4231, as someone earlier quite rightly pointed out.
So, against Spurs, we can be sure that he will play Carrick instead of Fletcher. Ok, but Carrick is not as competitive as Fletcher so we will be missing some 'bite' that Dembele will pinpoint (or at least AVB should). Will SAF go back to the old reliable Scholes as his only partner with Valencia and Wellback on both sides? I really, really hope he sticks with Cleverly and Ando, and I'd play RVP up front, with Kagawa and Rooney falling off to the left and right as needed.
C'mon SAF, be brave!

By the way, I sent a very long post after the 'Pool game regarding Giggs. I think it is awful, disgraceful even, if (and thats a big IF) SAF is keeping Giggs from retiring. Giggs is past it by about 4 years and it is pitiful watching one of our greatest ever players turn into a laughing stock by opposing fans and teams. I just think it is very, very sad.

Anyway, I'd love to hear ye're thoughts on Saturdays formations? Ed's?

J Bones.

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28 Sep 2012 19:08:15
I think a lot of it is down to Giggs, fergie's comments in the past have always been Giggs will play as long as Giggs feels he has something to offer. i personally think Giggs is on some quest to set an unbreakable appearance record to the detriment of his overall legacy as he's been bobbins for years. I also think that both of them will go together. Giggs is the epitome of Fergie's reign, he's gone from boy wonder to steady consistent top class to mature influence to the reliable old soldier. I honestly think both will retire together, and it will be 20th May 2013.

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4 years? Would that be the same Ryan Giggs who won footballer of the year in 2009? Granted he is now showing his age and he is losing mobility but it is not pitiful, nor very very sad. Awful, disgraceful? I think you're a little confused if you think SAF is forcing Giggs to play. It would be better to use him to steady games down as opposed to trying to be a central midfielder but your language is cometely inappropriate.

AJH

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28 Sep 2012 11:43:24
Good to hear Smalling will be back for the Stoke game. Hopefully Rio, Evans, Wootton & possibly Carrick will be enough until then. Spurs this weekend and Newcastle next weekend are the two fixtures which we will need Evans and Rio fit. Perhaps Wootton and Evans can play against Cluj midweek with the extra support of Fletcher in midfield.

Nothing has been mentioned, but I do have a little worry that Rio may be struggling for tomorrow? Has anyone seen any training photos or clips with Rio training?

Sydney!

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Would be good to see Wootton play against cluj. He looks very composed on the ball and reads the game well and will definitely improve with the more games he gets. Would be nice for a few youngsters to break through this season they certainly have the potential. I would also like to say how impressed I was with Keane too, great attitude and determination.

Mad Hatter

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28 Sep 2012 20:06:10
could Keane and Wooten long term step up and replace Rio/ Vidic? I know we have Smalling & Evans but we need 4 good centrebacks, i see Smalling replacing Rio but is Scott enough to be Smalling's understudy? And could Keane leapfrog over Evans?

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Wotten is not good enough, cisse and ba will murder him. Shahram

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28 Sep 2012 11:36:19
What do people expect the team to look like this weekend due to the wingers injuries..... I expect we may see Nani back on the right side with Welbeck on the left but I am hoping no wingers with a more central 4321 with Cleverley, Carrick and Scholes then Rooney and Kagawa behind RVP.

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I suspect Evra will be recalled although I would rather see Buttner match up to Lennon. Someone who always turns Evra inside out. I think Evans, Rafael & Rio will all return if all fit. Lindegaard will play ahead of DDG. I think we will see Scholes & Carrick in midfield with Nani, Kagawa & Rooney. RvP upfront in a 4-2-3-1.

_______Lindegaard
Rafa__Ferdy__Evans__Evra
_____Carrick__Scholes
L.Nani___Kagawa___Rooney
__________RvP

Sydney!

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I would really like to see:

________ De Gea

Raf _ Rio _ Evans _ Buttner

__ Anderson _ Cleverley

_ Nani _ Rooney _ Kagawa

________ Van Persie


Think Carrick will get in there though at the expense of either, Ando-Clevs or Nani....

Oxred

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Im not too sure about this against spurs - there main threat will come from Bale and Lennon both fast wingers, i don't like the idea of them having the freedom to run at both Evra and Raf who both themselves like to go for a wander.

Could we try Buttner left wing? he seem to be decent going front and not afraid to take people on, don't think welbeck does enough on the wing.

Would be good to see Kagawa, Rooney and RVP all start on saturday.

Giants14

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I would be very suprised if we played without wingers against Spurs.They are one of the only teams who play with two wingers and we will have to play with two wide players to protect the full backs from Lennon & Bale. I do however think that the system we used against Newcastle would be effective against many of the other Premier league sides and would also be ideal in the Champions league .
Raffa

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I think we should play a 433.

______De Gea
Rafael_Rio_Evans_Buttner
__Cleverley_Anderson
______Rooney
__Nani_RVP_Kagawa

Percy

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I would go with

______ DDG
Rafael_Rio_Evans_Buttner
Cleverley_Carrick
Rooney_Anderson_Kagawa
RVP

kdevil10

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With the injuries to our wingers maybe we could see a team like this:

Lindergaard
Rafael Ferdinand Evans Evra
Cleverly Carrick
Rooney Kagawa Buttner
RVP

Gives hard working players with an attacking flair on each side and the midfield 3 i expect to see.

Paso

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28 Sep 2012 10:51:58
I see further down KLOOT having his usual moan. This time that Clevz and Ando are no good and are not the answer but what he seems to miss is that we dont have anyone else of any quality or young enough age to play that position.
No one is saying that after the Newc game that all of a sudden Ando is a world beater cause he isn't but if fit and can put in performances like the other night then he has to be the first name down to play CM cause we dont have anyone better.

Devil Dust.

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28 Sep 2012 11:12:37
People have to remember that a fit Anderson played a big factor in helping us to win the Champions League. He quite often played alongside Hargreaves. If fit he is very good at driving forward. However it has to be said, he still looks a tad overweight.

Fresh!

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Compared to Rooney he looks like Victoria Beckham.

Cban

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By a tad do you mean 2 stone. He nearly blew the Stretford end down he was blowing so hard. And as for Devil Dust's comments yes I do believe that neither are good enough for United and the Young lad from Crewe shows more promise than both of them put together. And yes after the Newcastle game in the meaningless cup suddenly they became world beaters. If they are the answer I would hate to know the question but more than that how our standards must have dropped. I AM KLOOT

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28 Sep 2012 19:17:13
Kloot compared to some of the crap we had to endure in the 80's they are world beaters. I think having seen the best centre mid partnership in the English league (one of the best in the world) of Scholes & Keane we've been spoiled and thats why our standards are so high, basically trying to replace the unreplaceable! Powell does look good and there are others around in the ressies/academy as well. i wouldn't write Cleverley off just yet, he may not hit top top class but he can be a very good squad option, after all its a squad game these days and Butty and Phil Nev provided good options in the middle when Keano and Scholesy were out (usually banned) Mort

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Its a disgrace that the coaching staff at utd have allowed both rooney and especially kfc family bucket ando to both be so unfit,at this level its not ac ceptable.anderson on his day is very good and at least goes forward instead of sideways or backwards,cleverley could turn into a class player but up to now has done nothing to convince me one way or the other.he has only played 10-20 1st team games so i will give him time to develop but at the moment he is only an average player
johndenton

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Kloot don't mean to offend you but why are you always with out a shadow of a doubt so bloody depressing about everything ?

Dio

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28 Sep 2012 08:13:40
Valencia and young injured. So can we all get behind Nani and the rest of the team instead of trying to get rid of half of them. If Ferguson plays right tactics for a change then we'll be fine.
NoMidfield

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We should definitely get behind Nani. How else are we going to give him the kick up the backside he so desperately needs.

Danny Pughnited

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We will all get behind him...Im not an expert but I dont think that will make him play any better....still anything is worth trying at this stage.

Devil Dust.

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I will get behind nani to help him out of the door,hes crap he has been here 5 years and in my opinion has got worse.last sunday we might as well as played with 10 men for the 1st half,why give teams that helping hand we need 11 commited decent players on the pitch at all times.i pay a lot of money to follow utd and would rather see a youngster eager to impress get a chance than carry nani
johndenton

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28 Sep 2012 00:10:19
I hope people on here were watching England U16 v Ireland! First time I have seen our U16 prospects properly and I can tell you next year our academy is looking good! Mitchell was the best player on the pitch. Skinned about 4 players and scored a cracker. Borthwick-Jackson was great as well best defender in terms of playing and keeping the ball. Youtube the Mitchell goal people! Marcus Rashford from our U16s (only 14), came on from the bench and showed great potential as well!
Honestly though, the way Mitchell drops his shoulder and just ghosts passed people is Giggs/G best like and very uncommon in modern wingers that are too obsessed with step overs. He was called up to the squad at 14 last year but got injured and he also played in the Aegon U17 cup this year where we got to the final. This guy is definitely one to look out for!

Dan

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Dan

I posted about him further down the page whilst watching the game last night. He has something special not just balance but maturity in his passing. A person disagreed but everyone should take a good look as this kid has something. Many flatter and as I said last night John Curtis didn't push on but this kid Mitchell may push past a lot of those in front of him if and it is an if he develops. What I saw last night has major potential.

Red Man

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