Manchester United Banter Archive September 28 2013

28 Sep 2013 23:07:00
Moyes said: "To win the Champions League you have to have five or six world-class players.

"If you look at Bayern Munich, they have five or six really ­world-class players, and to win it you might have to have that in your squad.

"Look at Barcelona, who had it in the past, and Real Madrid have maybe got it now.

"That's the level you have to get at to win it. We've not got that yet. What we have got is experience and several players who are in that category or close to it."

At least he knows what is needed.

It means, let's forget about winning any major title because we'll not. Maybe the 2 small cups. He made a lot of mistakes, but saying this is not news for nobody, any person who thinks can see that.

Lets just hope for the better, it's imperial to get into the top 4 otherwise, the way donw is a long road.

28 Sep 2013 22:32:04
Chris the redman it's only a game.

Cheer up mate

Yeah, cheer up "chris the redman" I noticed on the arsenal board a few months ago you where saying that you liked arsenal and respected AW.im sure they would welcome you for a short stay over there for a bit of happy therapy

28 Sep 2013 21:25:42
Another post sent today .another post that has not been published.Have I done something wrong why my posts are being sanctioned.I have not used any form of bad language or been any more critical of our team than anybody else that has an input into this site

bob {Ed004's Note - Check the match/other section}

28 Sep 2013 20:50:55
disappointing in today's result. was at the game and the players looked so uninterested in the game and after every small mistake look to take more interest in blaming each other rather than play to win. have to now admit that rio is lacking any sort of class in defense. and we just don't look safe under pressure. I think moyes is gona struggle to get the team in shape. I now its early but I feel that this season will be a right of by xmas and will be shaped and prepared ready for next season.

what everyone else opinion?

I agree totally. DM doesn't seem to be able to get thru to some of the players, and some of them don't seem to know there role in the team. Others I suspect have no interest in playing for him.
Rio is finished and should step back and let Jones and Evans take over at CB.
We will be lucky to make it to xmas.

28 Sep 2013 20:36:49
You can't blame Moyes for players performing way below standard. Rio should retire gracefully, his legs have gone. I am sure it will be Evans and Vidic Rafael and Evra in Europe. Everyone was saying give Kagawa a start and Hernandez which moyes did.
I do think Moyes needs to establish his "best team" very quickly. Need a consistent run of results and things won't look so bad. One issue I do have is I do not believe he should have changed out all the coaching staff, that was a mistake it would have eased the transitition if he had kept Rene.
Everyone new we were way short in midfield and have been for years. Need to get quick midfielders in and soon

You need to play Kagawa in a central role if he is to play.He is not a wide player.Not only that the best winger we had pre-season was Zaha and he can't get a game.The manager picks the team so we can blame Moyes.The only time he would not be to blame is when he fields his best side with tactics to suit and still loses.

Of course Moyes is to blame. He inherited the current champions not a mid table outfit. Yes we need strengthening but a top, top manager would've attracted the players needed and integrated them into the team with little or no disruption. What's more a top, top manager would play exciting football. I want Moyes out of this club not because I don't like him but because he is not the right man for the job. Anyone who knows anything about football can see this. This post probably won't make it because none of mine seem to. To anti-Moyes maybe?

Sorry to post twice forgot about this bit.Where was a bid for Christian Eriksen in the summer he is a steal for Spurs better suited to Premier League than many foreign signings.

What makes it even worse is if he dose not qualyfi spelling for champs leauge next season he can forget getting world class players they said we would be in for and then we go on a even bigger slide

28 Sep 2013 20:28:08
I know people might think I have gone crazy but we need to move Kagawa into the hole and believe Kagawa is the best player we have to operate in that gap and will help the wingers as his passing and touch is better than Rooney in the hole.

We have looked completely disjointed this year so far in a 4-4-2 and trying to appease Ronny and Janusaj should not be the priority, which seems that way at the moment.

Teams like Villa, Southampton or any one with young legs in midfield will give us problems if we set up the way we did today we will lose an unthinkable amount of games.

Statistically if you lose 8 maybe 9 you don't get CL placing and we still have a ton of very difficult away fixtures. we could lose that many as long as we win 22, which means 19 of the next 32 which will be a tall order the way we playing.

I think woodward and and moyes are both equally responsible for our summer transfer fiasco and being in this position.

God created
Do you really think kagawa is the answers to our problems .
We have nobody who can play on the left .
No creativity in the middle, I like fellaini but fellaini and Carrick as a pair look far to slow and Anderson clevs aren't good enough.
Time is catching up with vidic ferdy and evra and the players coming through aren't as good.
And is moyes the man for the job,

Jred

He might not be the answer but what is clear is that the current formation and set up is not working. If he is experimenting with players and set ups as he has admitted, We lose nothing by playing kagawa there in a couple of games and trying a different set up.

You confirmed what I said later down the page, because we have no one who is particularly good at playing left wing he is the sacrificial lamb that is thrown out there and then subbed at half time for a 18 year old kid who was also very poor until they switched him over to the right. To me this is knee jerk reaction and it seems like he is appeasing Rooney and Janusaj and and in the process killing kagawa's confidence.

Jred

Vidic is still a top defender but the rest are nowhere near good enough to play another season for us (Evra, Ferdinand).

I think moyes clearly has an issue with Evra and gone out of his way to buy a replacement. However he captained us in almost very game, when Vidic was not available and is a big influence in the squad and dressing room. Playing buttner instead has made DM look even more foolish as he is worse than Evra and has zero positioning sense and allover the place.

I agree and have been saying we should go to a 5 man midfield and one striker. If that means we a will upset Rooney or RVP, so be it as trying to keep everybody happy s not working.

It's funny how Fellaini over the last couple of years has given us a horrid time and watching him play for us makes you realize it was a case of us being sh. t and at 27.5 million grossly overpriced and another one of transfer blunders.

28 Sep 2013 20:01:58
It's an average 20 in our squad - there is no consistency in their performances.

De Gea, Rafael, Vidic, RVP and Rooney are the only ones that can command/deserve a first team place - the rest are all much of a muchness, sometimes they perform, but most of the time they are passengers.

RVP and Vidic have a season or two max and Rooney is gone in the Summer. Wouldn't be surprised if Barcelona/Real come sniffing for De Gea as well. Then we have Rafael that seems secure, but who knows maybe it has always been his dream to play for Bayern, Monaco or PSG!

The inevitable fall to mid table obscurity stares us in the face and I hope to God that Moyes starts ripping out the roots and plants some new seeds quickly.

The crash happened 3 years ago, we are just seeing the result of it now. SAF passed the poisoned wine glass to Moyes and saved his mate Mourinho the embarrassment.

We've just got to try and support the change as best we can, but it has to come.

Glad what your saying is opinion formed by adversity and not facts we have lots of young exciting prospects coming through and are still the biggest and most supported club in the land get a grip this is a wobble not a fall from grace get behind the team cheer them on even when things are down from great adversity comes great strength we are not jackers and perseverance will prevail SAF left us in good hands anyone who says he has left us to fall into obscurity has no clue who or what SAF was he loved this club and all that is united I am offended to call you a supporter if you honestly think this was his plan we never won any wars with people like you in the ranks that's for sure

Yeah cheers Kate. I'm just being real, what you are saying is the perfect example of Stockholm Syndrome in football - ridiculous denial!

We had a massive head start with our squad, prestige, business structure, over the past 3 years all of that has eroded. Most players in the world would sign for us, now we can't even sign Leighton Baines! I'm not saying this is all the fault of SAF, nobody has done more for the club. But it definitely is somebody's fault, because if you take our performances over the past 3 years, pick our best 10. They won't come close to any 10 taken at random from 3 years prior.

We may have a crop of decent youngsters, but I doubt they will emerge into the world class talents they should - when will they play regularly? They can't develop if they aren't played regularly and certainly when played out of position.

I'm a massively loyal supporter of our club that is why it hurts seeing the obvious problems and now trying to address them. Rather than burying my head in the sand whispering "It's all perfectly fine, just a bad dream".

It's real and we need to face up to facts.

Hi Katef,
While I don't entirely agree with the post you replied to, facts are hard to consolidate!
Yes we do have exciting young prospects but they are not getting game time! I love United but I do fear for us, yes I'll still go when/if United implode! But I have a nagging feeling Moyes is not and never has been the right choice! He doesn't inspire belief in me, so God knows the affect he has on the players.

28 Sep 2013 19:43:15
Nani had 4 excellent crosses in the first half, and had Hernandez been sharp he could have scored twice. When Nani was moved to the left he was not as effective, but we should not be surprised about this because when Nani was first choice right wing he was United's MVP. His decline coincided with the arrival of Valencia.

We've all been saying for 4 years we needed to invest in some creative midfielders. We haven't done so, and this lethargic midfield, where we actually miss Tom Cleverley, is now Moyes's inheritance.

With a general lack of speed throughout the squad, and serious aging issues in key areas, it is hard to see anything but a mediocre finish this year.

And furthermore, it is only by maintaining a revenue stream commensurate with a top European club, that United can continue to service the club's debt.

Missing Cleverley your hurting my ribs with laughing.He is no better than any other player we may put in there.You do say we need creativity and that is true.If Cleverley was that good why would we need anyone else.It is obvious we need a rebuild in a few areas.How are we going to attract the better players to Utd when we had a lot of time and money available in the summer and failed.

Totally agree. I mentioned the other day how Hernandez has lost that yard that made him a superb poacher. He doesn't offer anything more than most mid-table forwards nowadays, wasted talent unfortunately. He may have scored against the scousers, but he didn't do much else over the 2 games, and watching him last season he was often not in the right place when a ball was fizzed in.

Franny Jeffers anyone?! But more seriously Papisse Cisse, great start, now what!

28 Sep 2013 19:23:52
A bad, bad day for United fans in my opinion, i'm starting to agree with the moyes haters now, the way we set out, the tactics, the tempo its just not the man united way.
Kagawa is being absolutely wasted, it's a shame because he won't even leave because he's to valuable on the shirt sales side of things (its sad really) Rio has been declining for a while now and struggles without Vidic, Anderson.i'll leave it at that, sick of waiting for his big year.
What disappoints me the most is when you look at the way other teams are performing, look at Southampton, attacking, modern football and they hardly concede, this is the way we should be playing, its embarrassing the fact i'm saying we should be more like Southampton. Were Manchester United for gods sake, I think for now tactics need to be changed, maybe a 4-3-2-1? Rafael, Vidic, Smalling and Evra, midfield 3 of Jones, Carrick and Fellaini, then Kagawa in the hole behind RVP and Rooney? would be strong through the middle and rely on the fullbacks for attack? then if need be we could shape it up width wise with the subs? jus a suggestion.
We need some Big signings soon, look how much the addition of Ozil has changed Arsenal, its a massive lift to everyone at the club when someone like him is signed.
Im going to give Moyes a chance but I wish we had chose Klopp in the summer, think things would of been different

I meant 4-3-1-2

Big mac,
Totally agree with that formation and selection and i'd do the same thing but I just don't think moyes rates kagawa.
Moyes, for a reason I still can't work out, was deemed the manager to continue the good times but despite awful displays week in week out still hasn't tweaked the formation to at least try to improve performances.
The rumour was he declined the chance to sign thiago and strootman and he failed to improve our midfield until the fellaini fiasco and now stubbornly or foolishly sticks to the same formation and tactics each week. I appreciates he wants to do things his way and not be swayed by others but something needs to change now or we could find ourselves out of the title race by xmas and struggling to finish 4th. And i'm being serious, I honestly think things could be that bad very soon because we don't look like were even stagnating anymore, in fact we look like were going backwards

Baby faced assassin,

Totally agree mate, the fact that we haven't scored from open play since the Swansea game is worrying, that formation I said would work I think but I agree about Moyes and Kagawa, jones could drop back as our full backs bomb forward basicly turning into a 3-4-1-2 going forward but i'm just an air conditioning engineer, what do I know?

I believe Moyes is trying to keep Rooney happy and Kagawa is the sacrificial lamb on the leftwing.

I know people will say Rooney should be played in the hole and criticize kagawa's performance on the left but rooney out on the left also turns into a passenger and very ineffective, especially when asked to stay out left so we can keep our shape and not roam around which he likes to do.

If he wants to rotate the squad he should also rotate the no 10 spot and see how we perform with kagawa in that role.

28 Sep 2013 18:41:36
On Jose

Again

Sydney!

I know he fell out with many but the players he fell out with we're for specific reasons. Ronny and Ozil was work rate without the ball, Di Maria about staying on his feet, Benzema about work rate, Ramos and Iker about cutting the head off the poisonous snake of player power. SAFhasdone the exact same BUT kept it far more in house. Like with the drinking culture when he arrived, the partying of sharpe and giggsy, stam, becks, RVN, etc falling out with egotistical players is easy when you know you are the best. I would have loved to have seen what SAF would have done in that team, I think allot would have been similar.

Have a good night mate I'm stuck to my three beers out here :(

To the others

Jose is nothing like the managerial Suarez if you had to pick a player it would be ibrahimovic. Confident, arrogant, knows he is the best, plays his way, and is a winner.

Negative football? Jesus I must have missed saf change back in tactics last year from the 18 yard defensive line and counter to RVP last year, or the terribly workmanlike efforts the two years previous to that. We have not played the Utd way since 08.

He left Porto on good terms and helped them out massively purchasing a few players for big money. Chelsea he wasn't going to be leaving but fell out with abramovich and parted company. Chelsea were still a very good team with the spine all in their prime. Inter there were hardly any player fall outs except balotelli (shock) and a defender I can't mind his name might have been Samuel. The rest put the effort in and loved him as materazzi video shows when he left. Madrid was well Madrid, full of egos, full of problems, full of pressure to beat barca etc and he stood up to all of those challenges head on and put his own head on the chopping block while doing it. Madrid are more of a team than they were when he joined them. Hardly the state you are all claiming.

He should have been our no1 target and I fully believe saf was selfish in picking moves as he didn't want Jose running the possibility of staying for many years and winning more CL in a far shorter time. Saf wants to be revered as the best manager ever and stopping Jose getting the keys to his kingdom he has helped that to be the case and not let Jose loose on the world of football with Utd at his disposal.

Jono. Pur-leese.SAF appointed Moyes to preserve his own record? Abit early to have drunk that much mate. Get on the coffee and come back later and talk a little sense! Though I don't blame you for living in fantasy land. Reality is in a mess for us right now!

28 Sep 2013 18:04:05
Posatives

1.Most wanted buttner and kagawa to get a game and the did
2.moyes seems to like janujaz and he will give him plenty of time this season
3.wayne Rooney continues to be our best player by a mile

Negatives
1. Ferdinand is finished and should only ne used as back up now
2.carrick too seems to have slowed down a bit and this for a player that was never quick is a worry
3. Anderson is rubbish and I really had hoped he would come good but he never will

All in all a bad day / week but if he continues to play janujaz and also incorporates zaha and some more youth i'd be happy to give him ( moyes) and our new young players a chance to develop

Spot on. The old guard are just that. old! Time to do a Fergie. Get the promising youngsters out there, forget trophies for a year or two, although the 'fledglings' didn't need that much time, and let's see a revival, slow or not. But Anderson, Nani, Young and Valencia need to be moved out! It hurts to watch teams like Swansea playing great football while we labour against very ordinary teams!

Carrick got booked early and then made another rash challenge shortly after. He was on a final warning. As a result he didn't put his foot in again and we lost a key part of his game.

Anderson looked good, gave the ball away a bit, but he was driving forward and creating space. He needs games, look how anonymous RVP was because he was recovering from a slight knock, Anderson has hardly played in 12 months.

Agree Rio is finished, like watching Neville when he knew his time was up.

28 Sep 2013 17:28:39
The ABU's must be going wild. Its like Christmas come early for them.

12th. down to 12th. At this point we are usually closing in on the top 4 if we ain't already in it.

Shocking.

28 Sep 2013 17:09:22
How can Giggs have more passion and desire then some of our players today. Jones is wasted at rb, he provides nothing going forward. Play Fabio when Rafael isn't playing. Jones and Evans should be playing instead of Rio, he's past it. I'm hoping for coming in 4th, this was a terrible performance at home.

28 Sep 2013 17:12:54
hi guy's, can someone please tell if a manager who makes his biggest mistake even before the season starts by letting rene go and brings in everton staff and does not want good players and say thiago is not good enough 4 premier league and his first team after he left is even better without him how can that manager do well with our team. I hope every one can see and please don't say he needs time, had he keept rene he should have been fine. are u guy's happy with this? or am I the only who can see where we are going we are not even becoming everton we are becoming sunderland.i'm sorry 4 saying it but I hope we lose a lot of games so moyes gets sacked, he has made a lot of mistake's. he should have keept rene. zee

28 Sep 2013 17:05:22
This didn't feel like "One of those days". I'm officially worried.

28 Sep 2013 17:03:43
Worst start to a league campaign nearly 25 years. Haven't scored a goal from play in the league since the opening day. Completely outplayed by a bottom half side. Welcome to the Moyes era.

A banner reading "the chosen one" is draped across the ground every week. Chosen for what exactly? For his tactical ability? For his man management skills? For his ability to attract top class players? For his proven winning pedigree? For his world class back room team?

No, he was chosen because his mate gave him the job. Moyes, as predicted, is way out of his depth at a club like United. We were told that he would bring continuity, the story continues. But in the space of a few months he is slowly but surely turning us from champs to chumps. This isn't a Moyes out rant, because he should never haven been brought in in the first place. Moyes will get time to build his team but how many of our best players will be willing to wait until he gets his act together?

28 Sep 2013 16:55:23
I posted yesterday that the next 6 games would tell us everything about what life under moyes would be like, well judging by today we are going to struggle badly IMO.
A home game against WBA shouldv been perfect to go out and show some intent but the fact is that for 70mins we created very little and in moyes' first 6 league games we've looked like a very average mid table team and that's a disgrace as far as i'm concerned.
Yes we were unlucky not to equalize late in the game but it was too little too late and we shouldv shown more intent from the start.
We have gone from the leagues leading scorers to a team who haven't scored from open play in 5 games and have had our worse start in 24yrs. That can't be a coincidence. Disgusted

Again told you lads about moyes.but I don't think you will go down.

How long do you think it can carry on like this until he's sacked?

28 Sep 2013 17:14:57
moyes and his staff are 2 blame 4 it

I feel physically sick. How can West Brom come to Old Trafford and look the better team, Sessegnon looked far better than any of our lot? They used the exact same tactics that we used (and we were at home), and did it better.

We didn't create much at all yet again. Kagawa looked good in the first half, should have brought Hernandez off, pushed Rooney up top and played Kagawa behind with Nani and Jianijuz on the wings. RVP clearly was off the pace.

Nani looked much better, but still no end product. Time for Rio to hang up his boots.

I don't think Utd deserve our attention at the minute, we seem to care more then them lot. I'm off for a bit.

28 Sep 2013 16:30:25
I thought Moyes was supposed to be a defensive manager? Strong defensively and not conceding many.

He is exactly the guy for the top ten positions. 5 place is not that bad under Moyes I guess!

28 Sep 2013 16:29:13
west brom are better in every department at old trafford
ngiak is totally embarrassed
west brom!
gan

28 Sep 2013 16:27:40
I know some guys here that will say how difficult is to play West Brom! We need to try to reach the top 4 this season. Because this will be a massive season for us. Shame on DM and his Glazers friends.

28 Sep 2013 17:19:41
agree, shame and I hope we struggle so moyes and his staff get's sacked and hope the sponsor's sees what utd are going 2 bee like, angry fan

28 Sep 2013 16:15:16
ngiak does not recognize the team in red at old trafford
no passion no style no speed no threat no ideas
gan

28 Sep 2013 14:46:16
Interesting team today, Ando needs to have a fantastic game or Rooney will get dragged deeper and deeper. Glad to see Hernandez keep his spot, looked lively midweek. If Nani is as inconsistent as is likely I'd like to see Adnan in for him around 60 or 70 mins.

Come on Utd!

28 Sep 2013 14:12:16
De Gea, Jones, Ferdinand, Evans, Buttner; Nani, Carrick, Anderson, Kagawa, Rooney, Hernandez
I like the look of this team. Plenty of creativity in there.

28 Sep 2013 12:48:33
For the first time i'm got seats in the executive seats. What does this entail, do I get complimentary drinks ;-)? Its the academy box next to stretford end?

I'm not sure about drinks, but Woodward gives a complimentary lap dance.

Sponsored by Thai Air or something

28 Sep 2013 09:53:32
"He's keen to stay but he has some ­influences around him."

Moyes on Januzaj, who has still not signed a contract. It is a concerning comment particularly given the loss of Pogba and I seem to recall similar comments back then. Juventus apparently offered more money than we did and in all probability the agent likely benefitted more from Juventus. The difference is Adnan is seeing game time so is it money again? Have we got an issue with paying agents? The rumours on Oezil was that his agent (his father) wanted £5m and that apparently immediately cooled our interest. After our shocking summer transfer window are we really going to lose another young player with potential and is this yet another money issue?

{Ed002's Note - You maybe should not believe everything you read about Pogba. I explained what happened as much as I could at the time without naming those involved.}

Thanks Ed,

Do you know what "influences" Moyes is referring to in relation to Januzaj? {Ed002's Note - I don't know exactly what Moyes has said but he will be referring to interest from elsewhere and the player's representatives discussing options with other interested clubs and knowing what is being "offered". They will be looking for certain guarantees and I suspect a get-out clause of some type. Out of the other interested sides, I don't see that Manchester City could offer him what he wants and I don't see that interest from France will come to anything. Whilst waiting for his contract to run down before making any real move for him, there is serious interest from Italy and that will be what is interesting Januzaj's representatives. There is still plenty of time to figure it out.}

I don't agree with just giving in to agents demands or giving players who have yet to prove themselves a guaranteed number of games but sometimes a special young player such as janujaz or even pogba should be looked at differently and we should look at the bigger picture.
I don't know the details of the pogba issue and I suspect none of us really do but if he was still with us we wouldn't have needed to spend £27m on fellaini so would in fact have been better off doing what was needed to keep him.Likewise janujaz, in 5yrs this lad is going to be a top european player so let's make sure we don't have to go spending another £25-30m in a couple of years when we would already have that player for the sake of a few grand a week now. Obviously we can't go being held to ransom with every decent youngster but those are special players IMO {Ed002's Note - Paul Pogba was always going to leave, that was clear and I did explain it at the time. Whilst folks seem to want to draw comparisons but these are very different circumstances with Januzaj, and I don't see any direct comparison to the situation with Paul Pogba. There is every chance a deal can be agreed but it will take some time and some give and take.}

28 Sep 2013 08:21:47
Red Man, I didn't want Jose due to him being a complete and utter plonker. The fact that he would have stuck around for two years, buggered off and would have left the new manager with a mess. The problems he would have caused around the squad with his egotistical ways. It would have been the wrong appointment. SAF made the correct decision by keeping him away from our club. Clowns belong in circuses.

Sydney!


Syd

Same old with you is it not mate. It is not a fact that's what Jose would have done had he come to us. In fact the only place he has had major problems with the players is in Madrid where he was the first manager to actually go toe to toe with the player power in the club. I refer to my previous point of it being funny Ancelotti still has not brought Iker back in and Lopez still has the jersey. Maybe Carlo recognises the power of the players was broken by Jose and is continuing it for the better of the club.

Take it to an office environment. You are a ring leader in a group who has enough weight to dictate to the higher management about the lower management and get them sacked or told off. So as a group member would you be happy if a top dog came into the lower position and smashed your group up and shipped out the biggest influence? Of course not. Carlo can carry it on now without the hate as he wasn't the one to implement the changes in the first place. Time will tell though if the going gets tough if he sticks by it like Jose had the pods to do. That took some massive balls to do IMO and shown me he had the ruthless streak a certain manager of us had when needed and it served us well.

Rolling on this theme, there is no way in a million years he would clash like that at us. Who is that way in player power that he could butt up against? We have no prima donna's, we have no ring leaders. We have a squad that was led by a man well respected and was known to be a winner. Well IMO Jose would have just carried this on no doubt.

Oh and this easy ride you claim he has had, He has turned Porto into treble winners, turned chelsea into double winners, turned Inter into treble winners and turned Madrid into League winners (breaking record even Barca couldn't) and CL semi's 3 years in a row. Now even by his own admission last year was his worst in his career but if Moyes has the same success he did at Madrid (FA Cup 1st year, league 2nd three CL semi's while coming 2nd in almost everything domestically) you will see that as a success yes?

And before you say blank cheques he only had that at Chelsea. I have posted in detail before anbout his spends at all 4 top clubs yet you still let the Chelsea early years dominate your opinion. If Moyes had got a second CM and Baines we would be looking at 70-80m so what if he won something? Can he only win with money even though he has come into an easy job with us being champions and all?

I think you secretly wanted Jose and wanted him to prove you wrong but its far easier to be negative and point out the big controversies as a reason as to why you didn't want him.

Redfaith

The player power point stands for your arguement aswell mate. Madrid are dealing with no mess. Jose broke the player power and Carlo is laughing as he can continue it while Jose stays the players hate figure. As I said it will be interesting if it gets tough to see if Carlo keeps it up.

Jono
I like that post I feel the same

To be perfectly honest I agree with syd, mouriniho would of been a quick fix but long term pretty much a guaranteed problem.
Now there's no doubting he knows how to win, but he doesn't really have much if any experience at rebuilding that team once its run its corse and often leaves the teams in a mess in some way or another.
Yes he played decent football at porto but in the Portuguese league over the last 10 years realistically there's only one team in it every season thus making it easy to win with style when ure nearest competitor is a benfica or sporting team unable to keep pace with there millions.
At Chelsea he built a team with power and strength that was officiant although not nice on the eye they were a team that won and when those players needed a change he left them and the club in a right mess that even roman many milliins couldn't fix and have found themselves out of the top 4 once over the last 3 years and only won 1-2 lwaguest since his departure and this season is having the same problems hr left them with when he left.
At inter it was the same storie, then at madrid he came up against players used to playing hd football and winning and what ended up happening there when they didn't respond to his tatics that are built on defence and power, he ended up falling out with every1 except 2 players and was only saved by the leagues other teams lack of competition to make a top 2 place.
So in short we have gone with a manager that has been at a club 11 years and has rebuilt that team a few times.
Time will tell if he's the right choice for us but when fergie picked him he knew his capabilities of rebuilding a team when it needed it while maintaining a good spirit and staying competitive in the league.
With mouriniho he has to be the center of attention and often builds a team to show that so whe he leaves and it all goes tits up the press can turn around and say ''well under mouriniho they won things, since he's gone they have been in turmoil'' forgetting the fact mouriniho is the one that left them like that.
Just my opinion mind.

Jono, my thoughts on Jose before and after Moyes' appointment are the same. He is a good manager, but he is a clown and not suited to Manchester United. You seriously believe Iker was the only player he fell out with in his failed time at RM? He fell out with Ronaldo and Oezil who were their two best players. He fell out with Ramos too. Jose feels he needs to be the biggest ego in the club, it was the correct decision IMO that Jose was kept away from Manchester United.

Now I am off on the p1ss and will not be back until tomorrow afternoon. Three good games to watch today and two bets to look forward to. Have a good day lads and I predict a 3.1 win for us today ;)

Jono

I have posted similarly and agree.

I still feel Jose should have been our manager but we have Moyes so will get on with it.

I will add the recent results could have happened to any manager but the difference is subtle. With SAF, Mourinho, Ancelotti, Loew, Klopp Pellegrini, even Benitez and any of the other top managers you know they know how to turn it round, they have turned it round and with one of them in charge we would be far more confident that even with the start we have had it would indeed be turned around. However how could we have that confidence with Moyes, he has never won anything and whilst he knows his football principals neither he nor we know for sure they will work to win titles. With Jose we know his methods will work and I would have had no problem with him at all.

To be fair, I think you both have valid points. But as we all know and manager of Manchester United will be under more scrutiny than any other manager in world football. While there are many pros and cons for Mourinho, I think he would have been a PR disaster for us. I know many adopt the "you all hate us, we don't care" attitude, but Mourinho would surely have brought controversy with him. Could you imagine the uproar if he poked, say for example, Brendan Rogers in the eye during a game at Anfield. I know that was a one off, buy you get my drift. Mourinho, although undoubtedly a good manager, is in many ways the of Luis Suarez of managers. Brilliance tainted by controversy, and lots of it.
To be honest I though Jose was "nailed on" to be our next manager. Especially after out CL match last season, when I thought he used him post match interview almost as a recruitment interview. I don't think there is any doubt he wanted the job.
I have to agree with Syd though that the man is a plank, as he so eloquently puts it! He is a good manager, but personally I am glad that he is nowhere near our great football club. {Ed002's Note - You are well wide of the mark about Mourinho.}

Jono

Syd! said he didn't want Jose well before the decision was made, as did I. His teams play a negative and cynical brand of football that doesn't fit with our history. Success shouldn't be bought at any price, although Jose is no longer a guarantee of success.

He heavily factionalises dressing rooms. You only have to look at the absolute chaos he left behind him at Chelsea (a club effectively run by Drogba, Terry and Cech for 3 years) to understand that.

He is far from guaranteed to be successful at Chelsea. Personal opinion? It's going to be his Waterloo.

28 Sep 2013 10:35:43
The problem with Jose is he is a devisive character. He has a habit of upsetting the apple cart when he first moves to a club and has been known to totally cut some players off while praising and cosing upto others.

Ask Mata and Luiz how they feel about Mourinho atm. Two of Chelseas best players in the last couple of years just disgarded as they don't fit his vision for the team. He has said Mata needs to work more on his defensive efforts, this shows his attitude toward the game. It is always safety first, like coming to Old Trafford without a striker in your team and parking the bus for 90mins.

He tends to play football in a negative way, that's not a a bad thing per se. Just a fact of how in the most part he has set up his teams. At the end of the day he tends to win things with this negative style so it works for him.

He also brings lots of controversy to the club he is at, he sees himself as more important than the club and that is why everything always has to be about him. He needs that to feed his ego. that's why he didn't work out at Madrid and why he hates Pep, both took the spotlight away from him.

He hasn't in the past been that good at bringing young players through. If you look at the majority of the players he has signed most of them have been over 25. Players who are in their prime and can bring him success imediately. He doesn't value young players who make mistakes and need teaching, as he doesn't care about the long term. In his mind why would he potentially sacrifice the odd result to help a young player become better and be a great player for the club after he has left?

When he left Chelsea all the players were in their late 20's/ early 30's. It was the same when he left Inter and if he saw out his contract at Madrid it would have been the same there.

So although Mourinho is a great manager, and a manager who always brings success to a club. He still has his faults just like any other man. His ego sometimes gets in the way of his job, he doesn't care or plan for the long term health of a club, his tactics have generally been negative and he has been known to alienate players at clubs he has been at in the past.

And I think for those reasons he hasn't and won't be considered for the United job.

So would people take moyes over Jose?
Imo Jose every time but everyone to there own .
I also think if I had asked this question before moyes signed I would of got a different response from the one I'm about to

Miurinho"s teams might have played negative football, but what have united been playing for 13 matches under Moyes? Attractive entertaining attacking football full of skill, and tactics?
One major difference, mourinho made his own success everywhere he's been, while Moyes has been a very good manager of an average team who have won nothing in 11 years.
Is Moyes going to turn into a serial winner just because he's at our club? I'm not so sure about this.
Fact is mourinho is one if the best around, and to compare him or his achievements to Moyes's is farcical.

28 Sep 2013 11:53:27
To be completely honest Jred imo Moyes and Mourinho are equally tied for the job. They are different sides of the same coin imo.

Moyes has the stability that Sir Alex brought to the club, and Jose has that winning mentality. In an ideal world there would be a candidtate who was a mixture of Moyes and Mourinho.

Personally i'd have gone with Ancelotti, Blanc or Klopp. But each to their own.

I fully understand why the club went with Moyes and i'll back him until the day he leaves the club even if I don't agree with everything he does.

JM is an excellent manager IMO. He wins but not pretty. His main asset is he knows how to stop other teams playing rather than his team take the game to them. That's probably why he hates Guardiola so much. I wouldn't want him at OT but we need to respect what he's won and achieved (regardless of people's personal opinion of the man). If Jose was available and we hadn't won something for years under DM then we'd snap him up! He has baggage though and my own preference is Moyes over Jm to be honest. Based on achievements alone he is remarkable. I think I like him a little though because if the public respect he has to SAF