Manchester United Banter Archive December 29 2014

 

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29 Dec 2014 18:28:41
Just thinking how fickle football fans are.

Last year martinez, rodgers were geniuses and we had the entire blue and red half of that city posting here and loving it during our year of misery and now the same lot want their managers sacked LOL.

I think Martinez is a goner and he is slowly turning Everton into Wigan, decent to watch but leak goals left and right.

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I go the wigan games and watched him a lot there we all wanted rid of him He tryed to play like barca but with wigan and use to conced silly goals trying to pass out from the back I agree his a goner

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Wiganred

Were you in Italy in July 2013 by chance?

I do note a lack of Everton fans praising Martinez these days. He put all his eggs in one basket in summer and I wouldn't be surprised to see several key players leave in summer and that will cause more issues. Shame, Everton are a decent club but seem to have lost directness under Martinez.

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I. Think he as no plan b he just as the same tactics I was yeah but only ppassing threw Italy to go and watch wigan at maribo

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There was a lot on here saying they would have preferred martinez to moyes.

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Sparky

Our fans can also be fickle lol. There were also people who were touting Laudrup in desperation but he also had a mare in swansea and his replacement has done much better.

I have more faith in managers who can do it season after season than one season wonders.

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29 Dec 2014 15:01:20
I'm not expecting a great deal of activity in January. Certainly not Hummels or Bale or anything silly like that. But I am hopeful over Strootman because it does look likely he will leave and it also looks likely that we will be in the running if he does.

Just a point here. With the current squad we have I can't see us leaving the 3 at the back to be honest. We only have one effective winger in Di Maria and Young/Valencia are more effective as wing backs than wingers. Januzaj is also clearly not seen as 'ready'. I would of thought Herrera will eventually be a regular but he will need a midfield partner, this won't be Rooney long term - he will either be a striker again or take Mata's place.

If Strootman does come in though I see Carrick being moved to a sweeper position within the back three due to his distribution from the back, his readiness to receive the ball and his calm and experienced head. Smalling, Carrick and Rojo as a back 3 with the power of Strootman and the guile of Herrera ahead could be a good combination for us.

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I don't think strootman has played 90 min since he done his knee

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He has played though, and let's be honest. What difference does it make if he isn't quite fit, he probably would be by February and could be a big influence. One extra body in the treatment room won't make too much difference.

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29 Dec 2014 16:06:11
I do see us eventually signing strootman, there's too much talk for it to be just talk. But I imagine it will be summer. The bean counters will want to be sure we get the best deal and that hinges on him proving his fitness. As jred said he hasn't played 90 minutes yet. I can't see Woodward handing over the best part of 30 million for a player who has yet to prove he's over a serious knee injury.

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29 Dec 2014 16:08:28
Fresh we've seen how falcao has struggled for fitness. I don't see us spanking nearly 30 million on a player that may not be able to do the job. Most sensible people would leave it till July to see how he recovers. And we have enough in the treatment room as it is.

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30 million for a player who moved to roma for about 14 mill and has played 25 games for they .

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There's plenty of players if rather sign than him

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29 Dec 2014 17:29:59
Jred he probably wouldn't be the first name on my list either, but I imagine he is the first name on van gaals list. Unless roma insist on a ridiculous price or he breaks down or has some reoccurring problems, like falcao has had, then I expect it to happen sooner or later.

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I like that the "V" word hasn't come up to often recently. Maybe it will be like the Herrera deal and we pull him out of the bag.

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I'll never understand why we chose not to go for him the first time around

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LvG saw Strootman as key to the way he wanted Holland to play with what he had available. However does that mean he sees Strootman as the right player for Manchester United? Will the board agree to pay £30m for someone recovering from a serious knee injury and has played less than 90 mins football?
Watching Roma I think there was a midfield player called Nainggollan who looked decent and got around the pitch well. Perhaps he may be a better bet than the slow pedestrian Strootman.

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Fresh

You really need to stop reading the comic pages mate, never going to happen with strootman. not in a million years good enough and carrick is much better than him.

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29 Dec 2014 18:34:45
I really don't think we need to buy someone now, especially someone who still hasn't proved they're over an injury.

If he wants to come and play for LVG, then I'm sure it can keep til the summer. Even then, from what I've seen of him, he wouldn't be one of my first choices.

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He was a fergie target but Mr moyes did not want him 👍

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We will see who is right GCU, I believe Strootman will be here by summer latest.

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Fresh

I am with GCU on Strootman and would be very concerned if we spend big on him. It is one of those big decisions, if it turns out badly then LvG will put himself under notable pressure

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Fresh

You also thought CR07 was coming mate lol

no chance, Not remotely close to make it at United in the PL and good enough for a tertiary league in europe and that about sums it up.

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I've been saying for weeks I don't want strootman espically For that price I'd rather spend 60 million on ppogba

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I am not sure we need someone like strootman. Carrick playing superbly in that position and Blind also to come.
I think we need a high energy link midfielder to help us up the tempo. Hererra does that but we need another to make sure we are covered in case of injuries etc.

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Pogba then Nomidfield

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30 Dec 2014 11:53:32
Just to throw a different name in would anyone take moutinho?

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30 Dec 2014 13:26:32
Absolutely, MrE.

His name has more or less been forgotten on here, but I always thought he was a top player in Portugal, and was disappointed we never made a move for him (though I think Arsenal were maybe favourites to sign him if he came to England).

He's probably the main reason why a poor Monaco team have managed to get out of their ECL group as well - keeps them ticking over, and brings some class to a very ordinary team.

Wonder if he's happy there?

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Vidal was the one imo we haven't had a player like him since keane and Robson.

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Pogba I would throw the kitchen sink to get. I think the koke would also be worth a large fee.

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Pogba will be the best signing we could make for a long time to come. Fergies biggest cockup. By far.

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29 Dec 2014 12:05:04
Hi ed, I was just wondering in your opinion what high profile movers there will be in January, not necessarily to us, just wondering if there are any big deals to look out for.

Believable0 Unbelievable0

{Ed002's Note - I am not sure what you mean by "high profile" but you can expect a few reasonably well known players to be moving clubs in January or agreeing moves for the summer.}

Interesting you've said that ed as there's a few whispers going round that hummels will be signed this window to come in, in the summer

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29 Dec 2014 10:52:46
I do not want to blame the referee for why we didn't win yesterday as I never really do that, I believe decisions will even out and I get bored of Liverpool fans telling me the only reason we ever won anything was because of the refs (one even messaged me yesterday saying Spurs should have had a penalty and we should have lost the last 2 games), but how bad was Jon Moss yesterday?

Not biased as such, but the giving of needless free kicks and slowing the game down in the 2nd half ruined what could have been a decent half of football. I know both teams were tired, but it seemed like every time there was a challenge he gave a free kick, more often than not to Spurs. There was a couple of occasions where I had no idea why a decision had been give, it seemed like free kicks were just being made up. And then at one point De Gea came to punch it out and the striker collided with him and the ref ignored it despite this always being a free kick.

Some of the reffing in recent weeks in different games has been nothing short of diabolical, every time I watch match of the day I am seeing incorrect decision after incorrect decision that are just changing games and affecting results.

My pet hate is time keeping, why the hell are we allowing refs to still keep the time when Rugby League have shown us the exact way to do it where nobody can complain. The refs are supposed to play 'a minimum of 3 minutes' and often they just play exactly 3 minutes and blow the whistle. So after a full game of time wasting and substitutions and watch stopping we are meant to believe that the time needed to add on is EXACTLY 3 minutes? It is embarrassing that our sport still has this issue when other sports have fixed it, and it seems like it has always been that way so we just accept it. If there was been a little bit more time wasting then it is EXACTLY 4 minutes, so annoying.

Believable6 Unbelievable2

{Ed004's Note - I am not sure how the tackle on Carrick has not been shown more. It looked an awful tackle on replay. Carrick was lucky he wasn't badly injured. I agree I thought the ref was very poor}

Moss & Dowd are awful refs in my view. Moss looks out of his depth (worse than a pub team ref physically) and Dowd thinks he is the one everyone has turned up to see, playing up to the camera constantly with his annoying facial expressions like he is the Lord of Football.

What I don't get is after a ref has a howler they are sometimes "punished" by reffing a lower league game. How is that punishment? They are not fined or docked wages as far as I know, they are just told they will not be in the spotlight the following week, which is probably what they would want anyway. The only refs that would see this as punishment are the likes of Dowd who won't be seen on TV by as many people.

If refs perform badly does anybody know if they go through any formal disciplinary action, just like the majority of people do if they underperform at work?

I appreciate it must be a tricky job, but so is brain surgery, you don't have any monkey carrying out brain surgery!

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29 Dec 2014 12:30:41
totally agree mate, soon as i saw jon moss i thought the game was in trouble, he has to be the worse ref i have seen in a very long time. seemingly over weight, odd fouls given etc.

The carrick foul was awful and should of been a red, i also saw the clash with de gea and couldn't believe only a throw in was given.

add on top of that, he blew the whistle in the first half 5-10 seconds before the added time was up! unlikely anything would happen in that time but u never no!

I just thought he was guessing a lot of the time in the game, i still don't believe the offside goal was given for what the replay was showing, i think it was for falcao. correct decsion or not.

vetounghen (spelling) was allowed to get away with a hell of a lot too, elbows and arms flying everywhere while every1 else was getting yellows for there first foul.

I thought it was a really bad display all round from Moss.

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He had some bad decisions throughout the game, one which could and probably should have cost us the game. Rooney Manhandling Kane in the box.

Moss's display yesterday was lacking and I feel if he is unpunished the standard of reffing will not change.

Beast from what I understand refs are paid more when they officiate in the premier league than when in lower leagues. I am not sure what the difference is but I guess it can be seen as a partial dock in the following weeks wages. I think they should face other sanctions though, a weeks ban or something of that ilk.

Although it can be argued that Refs can not face the same action as footballers as they simply are not paid to the same standard as players. So talk of banning or fining a ref would be like banning or fining a factory worker when they are doing what can be construed as their best.

I believe that Referees like Moss, Atwell, and Dowd are not at the standard required in the premier league therefore there should be a cap placed on the level of game at which a ref can officiate depending on the refs previous performances. This would ensure Refs who don't deserve to officiate the highest games won't and will also allow Refs the possibility of gaining a wage each week while eliminating the need for banning or demoting refs in situations. Although this would require a very large base of Referees to begin with.

Ultimately, the standard needs to improve in most aspects. My pet hate is inconsistency throughout a single match let alone an entire season.

Just my thoughts, Sorry for the rant.

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Nice one JaMax.

There definitely needs to be more accountability, the quality will improve if more resources are pumped into it, a larger pool of intelligent and fit candidates will go for it in that case. Ideally you want ex-pro's turning into refs, so you need to make it financially worthwhile, there is enough money in the game now to do that in my view it just needs to be used better and planned earlier. There are certainly a hell of a lot of "pundits" floating about that would serve the game far better making informed decisions on the pitch, rather than doing a job that 90% of supporters could do.

It will only take one or two to make the leap and then they will all come in off the golf course or from behind the pundits desk of Channel 85 in Thailand to improve the game for everyone.

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29 Dec 2014 14:35:06
Beast,

The guys who are refs have been doing it for years to get where they are at, they have climbed the ladder from kids football all the way up to semi pro and eventually make their way in the premier league. They are trying their best and I assure you reffing a football match is harder than you could ever imagine. The abuse you receive even when you have made a correct decision is astonishing and it takes a certain person to be able to handle it.

So your ex-pro idea is fine in principle, but what happens to the guys climbing the ladder working their ass off in a Salford Sunday league getting abused week in week out knowing that if they ever do get to the top level an ex-pro will just take their job? You would have even less young people trying to become refs, and the grass roots level where teams of all ages are needing referees each week would suffer incredibly.

I agree there needs to be improvement, but they are only human, and I feel we could take some of the pressure off by removing things such as time keeping allowing them to just focus on making the correct decisions in the game. Having the goal line technology has already stopped any arguments as to whether a ball has gone over the line, it works perfectly and allows the linesman to concentrate on offsides and other duties.

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29 Dec 2014 14:36:58
The biggest problem is consistency. The only consistency is inconsistency. You see two games, different or even the same ref with the same incident yet different outcomes. The standard of reffing has been declining the last couple of years. Maybe because fergie was the only manager to call them on it and prepared to face the inevitable fa charge.

The whole business of time added on for me is a farce. In rugby, when the balls out of play the clock is stopped and only restarted when the ball os back in play. Bring it in for football and you get no more time wasting as there's no reason to add time on.

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The ref was awful yesterday.

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29 Dec 2014 15:22:04
MrE,

Spot on mate, agree with everything you said. When rugby with the small amount of money in it compared to our game is miles ahead in terms of time keeping it just makes a joke of it, and nobody seems bothered, its just like it is OK to allow time wasting. It would be a better game to watch if goalkeepers weren't taking 2 minutes to take a goal kick, walking from side to side when they are 40 minutes away from a draw at Old Trafford, because the time has stopped so there would be no point. The refs never do anything about this either, it is like its an unwritten rule that time wasting is fine.

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GDS2 - I agree mate, there are numerous things the rulers could do to make it easier. How long has it taken for goal line tech to come in, its ridiculous how such an elite sport is still so amateur with its refereeing and support for them.

I appreciate the chain reaction to what I am proposing but ultimately you want the very best qualified people doing the jobs at the very top. I mention in my post that it needs planning properly, I totally understand how hard it is to be a ref, they all do their best, but in most cases it is not good enough because the stakes keep on rising the bigger the game gets - fine margins ruin weeks of planning and even the existence of clubs with one bad ref decision consigning a team to relegation potentially.

Do we have a lack of coaches or managers because it's easier for ex-pro's to get into it? Ultimately the best people will rise to the top, like Mourinho for example, but the best people to ref a game are those that understand the way it is played and the pace.

Pro footballers already start coaching badges early, most people work 9-5pm so its more difficult, the same goes for refereeing. You could have "teachers" run courses from youth football onwards at pro clubs for those that don't make the cut or those that want to carry on after they stop playing.

The world isn't fair anymore, if it has ever been. So making it a bit easier for former players to become top flight refs should be a serious consideration if we want to improve the consistency and eradicate the gamesmanship.

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29 Dec 2014 16:28:54
GDS, rugby is so far advanced its unreal. Goal line tech for disputed tries, stopping the click when the balls out of play, play carrying on around minor injuries with play only stopping for serious injuries (with the clock stopped), the sin bin for persistent infringements, the respect given the ref and lack of barraging the ref when he makes a decision, all makes for a better game and is stuff that would improve the rounds ball game.

Beast I get what your saying and the pool of refs needs improving, better refs would raise the standard of quality. But you needs to introduce them in slowly along with the best from the lower leagues. I'm all for female officials too, increases the pool.

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29 Dec 2014 16:37:29
You make great points mate as always, my understanding of what you were suggesting wasn't quite right. With the correct planning it could work, and would also mean the top ref's who were not ex pro's would be learning from people who have played the game at the top level.

Unfortunately I have a feeling it isn't something the country will do any time soon, they are so desperate to work out why England aren't very good that they seem to be missing the point on improving other aspects of the game that would improve it as a spectacle.

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I posted it watching that ref 30 minutes into the game but for some reason it never made the page. He is a joke and most are so inconsistent that it is hard to know what to expect.

Mourinho having a hissy is a trip as those boys do dive and have been doing so for many years. City should be more pissed off as an offside goal let Burnley back into that game.

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29 Dec 2014 18:51:53
Dembele was brought on to follow carrick everywhere and he was constantly fouling on every play yet the ref hardly picked him up on it. Just to name one player. Most of what Tottenham did was constant reducing fouls and nothing picked up. All they showed was Rooney holding at the corner but nothing about the blatant block on him just before.

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29 Dec 2014 10:13:32
Looking at us now l don't see us buying in January, we have players now back training and l think 3rd is the best we will achieve. So they will wait for the summer and spend then.

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Strootman rumours are intensifying though, I can see him happening but no one else. Names like Bale and Hummels I think are too big for a January move.

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They were always going to intensify around this time Fresh. I don't believe Madrid will sell Bale unless they get Rues, although the price stated is outrageous. Hummels looks an increasing possibility with the current situation at Dortmund weather he moves in Jan or the Summer is another story. I believe we will buy in Jan, possibility a CM and DC as we are lacking in depth in these positions at times.

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Fresh

Rumours from where? one silly mourn writes something and the rest pick it up and regurgitate the same story. I also read that he would like to play at Madrid or Barca and made me laugh, not in this life time for him or us.

Why would we want to by a midfielder who is slow, has a gimp knee and has played something like 66 minutes since being back 3 weeks ago and looked like rubbish when he actually played.

Btw i do not believe we will buy anyone and if we do it will be a right sided player. I think rafael's days are numbered as he is too injury prone and too rash defensively and that comes from someone who I trust.

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29 Dec 2014 10:08:52
I stumbled across the Premier League table for 31 Dec 2013 when I was looking for the current table and was surprised to see that we are only 2 points better off than we were last year.
For me this shows a number of things:
1. How hard it is to be really successful. thank you Sir Alex for all those years
2. We needed more perspective, Moyes probably was not doing as bad a job as we thought (post christmas was awful though!) and LVG is probably not doing as good a job as some of us think
3. We need to give managers time. I think Shappy mentioned this when LVG took over and explained that he started slow everywhere and built momentum as his first year went on. We are seeing this now.
4. We need to keep the faith and stick with the team. >MAN U till i die and all that

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29 Dec 2014 11:20:26
Brad,

I think the mentality is clearly different this year, the players actually feel like they can challenge, and the home form is what the form of a top team should be, winning games comfortably. Also, as many have said, being man the man that followed the man was always going to be the job to take, the expectation level is lower, LVG did not take over the champions and turn them into a 7th place side, he took over a team with no confidence and has at the moment taken us to 3rd place with the momentum of 9 games unbeaten. The reason we aren't even higher is because of the dreadful start to the season, but since we have got going we are seeing an upward trend, whereas with Moyes it always felt like it was a downward one.

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Also Brad let's look at how poor Arsenal, Liverpool, Spurs & Everton have been this year, the league table flatters our performances beyond any shadow of a doubt. Also we haven't had the League Cup or Europe this year.

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Here we go again. Did moyes team play like we are now?
Did moyes team have 46 injuries in the first 4 months of the season?
Lvg has turned this club around and we're actually playing attractive football. Moyes would never have been the right choice.

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Don't understand beasts constant put downs of LvG. What exactly were you expecting? To go from 7th, shot confidence to winning the league in 12 months? He's totally changed our style of play, last year was watching paint dry, at least this years exciting. We started badly while everyone settled and tried to get their heads round the new ways. We've had 46 injuries, never been able to gain any fluidity because of that. And slowly but surely it's starting to show, were 9 games unbeaten, 3rd in the table. The players look much happier and the whole set up seems better. Give the bloke a break and give him a bit of time . Personally think we can compete for the league next season with another 2/3 players.

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29 Dec 2014 20:27:08
I think this is rubbish, I'm sure we had lost 6 by 1st of January and were sat 7th?

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"Moyes not doing as bad a job as we thought", one simple comparison 12 months ago was that the manager then was saying we would make it difficult for Newcastle at Old Trafford.

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As someone who sat in the stands all last season in a state of disbelief at how poor we were, i can honestly say that we are far from the finished article but the difference in confidence and style of play is massive.i will gladly take 3rd place now if offered, anything better.and i would be in wonderland.lvg will need a couple of seasons and a few more classy signings to get us competing at the top table.it looks like the board are up for putting the money up for it so let's see where it takes us and hopefully we will be back competing with europes finest.

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JohnDenton

Completely agree, I just don't believe there are still United fans with a soft spot for the useless incumbent we had before.

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You have to give credit when its due LVG is getting a lot more out of our old squad than Moyes was given the fact that everyone we bought this summer is injured pretty much when you look at the last few games with the exception of falcao being the only addition.

I know players form has something to do with it but he is getting more from them than the old manager.

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29 Dec 2014 07:40:25
It feels like this is a key part of the season for us. The Villa result was a disappointment but was followed by 2 good performances. The Newcastle game looked like a stroll and the 1st half against Spurs was excellent, on another day we would have been 3 up by half time. We've got some tricky but winnable games coming upu and if we can bank points in the next month then we are all set up to push on. I still believe 3rd is as good as it will get this year and the next month will show how capable we are of doing it. However, a couple of bad results and Arsenal and Spurs are likely to be breathing down our necks.

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29 Dec 2014 10:37:08
AJH,

I agree, it is an important time for us, a win against Stoke would be great, but after that we have some tricky away games but the home games all look very winnable. If the season target has changed to winning the league we must win every game between now and the end of February as City and Chelsea play each other as well as other tricky games between now and then. If the season target is still top 4 (which it is for me) then we can afford a few draws in the tricky away games as long as we continue the great home form. It wouldn't surprise me if we lose at Stoke as they are a good team at home, but then we could go on a run after that for the rest of the year.

If we perform like we did in the first half yesterday on more occasions we will win a lot of games at a canter and I think we will finish 3rd with Arsenal pushing us all the way.

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29 Dec 2014 07:34:57
So, Mourinho demonstrates once again his ability to change the agenda. After several weeks of his players diving to try and con referees, a decision goes against him and suddenly it's a conspiracy and a scandal. Some will applaud him for this ability this, but it turns my stomach. How he can sit there and spout this nonsense about conspiracies is beyond me, Its as bad as Wenger's continual "I did not see it". I know he's a great Manager but it's pathetic.

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{Ed001's Note - did you not think his tongue was firmly in his cheek? I just thought he was taking the Michael.....}

Don't you think he's right though? I'm practically certain that the recent media circus surrounding our players diving played a huge part in the ref's decision to give Fabregas a yellow and not a penalty. There was clear contact and I think he had a good view.
Ivanovic did go down way too easily, and he does it far too often for my liking. It's an issue I have with him. Cahill perhaps was a dive, but he could also been avoiding the contact. If it was a dive, I detest it as well and I don't believe Mourinho condones it or urges them to do it.
It probably cost us 2 points yesterday

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29 Dec 2014 09:03:51
Jackson some of your players have done some disgraceful dives recently to try and win a penalty, I think it's justice that yesterday you didn't get the decision, karma.

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I believe refs shouldn't be swayed by actions in weeks prior to the particular game they're calling. I agree they need to stop diving, but it shouldn't result in Fabregas being denied a clear penalty and on top of that him getting a yellow. The ref should be more professional than that

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29 Dec 2014 10:39:35
It is just Mourinho playing the press at their own game, if he is the one that brings it up and makes out there is a conspiracy refs will think twice about saying a Chelsea player dived. It wouldn't surprise me if Chelsea get a soft penalty in the next couple of games. Jose is the master of mind games.

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29 Dec 2014 10:41:15
It is also doing what Fergie used to do, creating an us against the world mentality that unites the team as one to fight against everybody who is doing wrong against them. It creates morale and makes the players want to do anything they can to win against the nasty men who have this made up vendetta against them.

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It happens in every game on a micro level as well. We had several bad calls against us in succession, Rooney chips away at the ref and the next decision is nailed on for us. The refs are human and will be swayed by crowds, players, managers and their own personal bias. Until we have refs without emotions they will be manipulated.

Robot Refs is the way forward.

Also I hate Ivanovic, he screams like a big girl every time he goes down normally with nominal contact, then the commentators rave about how "tough" he is a few minutes later. He is everything that is wrong with modern day football.

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Yeah Jackson your right.

And he's the same as fergie.

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29 Dec 2014 14:52:27
Fabregas dived

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Funny when a few weeks ago Chelsea had 2 yellows for diving, plus Cahill should of made it 3 and been sent for one that would of took Tom Daley a bit of practise to equal. Yet you didn't hear him come out saying they were fortunate to get away with it! It's swings and roundabouts . Unfortunately Jose can't take it the other way

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Ultimately the commentator/managers brought up the diving issue after inconsistency on a refs decision to issue cards. The commentators were ex pro's and it was their opinion that they were dives. Mourinho therefore would do well to remember why this was brought up in the first place and
Think about the reason this was brought up. Personally I just think he is being smart and using the lack of decision to influence future games

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