Manchester United Banter Archive May 29 2015

29 may 2015 22:31:49
just stumbled across an article about some of the best goals in premier league history, paulo di canio scored one. made me think of the nearly men that nearly signed for us. 3 that would have suited our dna and we're all heavily linked and favoured by saf (as far as i'm aware) gascoigne, di canio and batistuta. i suppose shearer as a 4th although the other 3 i would have for pure football romance. ok maybe ginola too. showing my age a bit.

{Ed025's Note - i loved batistuta supasub, great player..

29 May 2015 23:19:51
Gazza would be the one for me Supasup. He would have been a handful but a top player in his day.

{Ed025's Note - good player JMB, but not fit to lace the boots of batistuta or shearer mate..

29 May 2015 23:51:52
Yes jmb. He would have had a different life imo had el tel not stepped in and Batistuta, well ed. For anyone else just look at a montage of the goals he scored will make you grab the kleenex erm to cry over what might have been.

30 May 2015 00:09:33
There is a story that King Eric recommend a young Zinedine Zidane prior to his move to Juventus. If true, well that's devastating. Ronaldinho as well would have been amazing as well.

29 May 2015 21:05:16
Most are saying we need a defensive midfielder, but if Carrick stays fit and we have a quality cb behind him to partner Smalling then don't we need a box to box midfielder (ie Vidal) more urgently?
Someone alongside Herrera with Fellaini playing a smaller part next season is what I'm thinking.
Cover for Carrick would be good also but just not as important IMO.
Someone like Schweinsteiger who could play both positions would be ideal.

29 May 2015 21:37:28
Too many ifs there Will Red. If Carrick doesn't turn up for us for any reason, we can't afford to be in the mess that we were this season. We definitely need someone who can pass and dictate play as well as battle in the midfield. Schweinsteiger could be a temporary solution.
My money would be on Schneiderlin and Gundogan to solve our problems. Again since rumors have been surfacing of Gundogan going to Barca, the name of United could have been being used as to increase the price. The thing that helps me calm is LVG is definitely going to get someone signed.

29 May 2015 21:47:48
I agree Will. I said something similar the other day, a CDM isn't essential so long as we buy wisely at the back. A ball playing CB and more experience at the back is all we need.

If we don't play with the anchor man it will mean we have more men forward so we can actually frighten teams rather than bore them to death.

All season we struggled to provide options in the final third to free up our creative players, too easy to mark because we attacked with too few players.

It was possibly necessary this season but no excuses next season as that's 3 windows.

29 May 2015 21:52:54
We will have more games next season as long as we go past the CL qualifying round. Carrick (if fit) can probably play in half/slightly over half of the games. Who plays the rest? When he is injured? Don't get the whole just look at the starting 11 when we need a good 20 top, top players.

{Ed025's Note - im with you supasub..

29 May 2015 22:48:15
The Carrick role is redundant if we buy the right CB's and CM's.

29 May 2015 23:38:33
I kind of agree but it all hinges on Carrick's fitness, which is a risk. If we buy a top holding midfielder and Carrick stays fit what happens then? But if we don't buy one and he gets injured we may struggle, its a dilemma.

I agree that all being well, getting someone like Vidal to replace Fellaini could prove very beneficial, especially in the Ecl.

I think we may only sign one CM so it will be interesting to see what we end up with.

30 May 2015 00:02:34
Beast,

The 'carrick' role is extremely important in the way we play, LVG calls it his number 6, have a look again at the lecture LVG gave before the World Cup and you will see how important that role is whoever we buy.

30 May 2015 00:23:01
I remember the vid GDS2, you are right of course.

If the player isn't available we can work around it, I'm obviously not a fan of the system so thinking best case for game enjoyment we have a cb that can orchestrate and more men advanced - unlikely though.

30 May 2015 09:03:21
HB,

I think the solution is to buy a player who can play the carrick role but can also play alongside carrick in maybe the herrera role, hence not only playing when carrick is injured. This is easier said than done though obviously.

30 May 2015 10:23:43
I worry how highly LVG rates Blind.

30 May 2015 10:56:11
I agree that cover for Carrick would be good as the past couple of months has confirmed Blind isn't good enough in that position.
Like you say GDS somebody who can play both roles ideally.
We will only buy so many players and with a top CB a definite and probably a RB too I just think we are crying out for a top imposing box to box midfielder who can play alongside Herrera. Would drastically improve us.

30 May 2015 13:13:49
That would be an answer gds, just a matter of identifying and signing said individual now!

29 May 2015 14:01:30
I know there are lots of rumours going round about players coming and going. I thought i would focus on our defensive 5.

GK - For me Utd should pay whatever it takes to keep DDG. He is developing into a great keeper and will only get better in years to come. However it still may not be enough to keep him as the pull of Madrid is personal for many reasons.
Should he go the choices are Cech/Loris/Begovic with Prem experience, Valdes at the club or someone like Cilleson from outside.
For me it is Cech.pay what it takes.
LB - We are sorted here with Shaw and good cover
RB - Rafael will be sold as LVG does not like him. Valencia is a solid back up but would sooner promote one of the U21's/loan players we have. Someone like Alves would bring good experience with no fee but high wages. Good going forwards but does he fit the LVG system!! Coleman is the standout for me here. prem experience and ready to step up. Good going forward and with good physicality. Calm on the ball as well.
CB - For me we ideally need 2. I would get rid of Evans, loan or sell Jones as he is just not learning quick enough. We would have solid back up/rotation with Smalling/Rojo. I like Otemandi and his physicality would give us what we had with Vidic, if not him then Howedes could do a job at possibly half the price. Hummels appears to be everyones favourite, my concern is his injury and lack of speed/physicality. Would be the new Rio without pace.great on the ball and a good organiser. Alternatively someone like Laporte or Varane if we could convince a sale.

{Ed004's Note - this could be a good topic starter. Defence today and attack tomorrow. I reckon there's a good chance De Gea will leave and I'd be looking at trying to get over 30 or so million for him otherwise just keep him. Cech would be an ideal replacement.
For right back ideally we would sign Coleman but he will be very expensive unless we could get him to push for a move (utd fan and might not have to even relocate) or try for Darmain whose reported price is 20 mill euros ish. Failing on getting those two I would sign Alves. Would probably become one of our best attacking outlets and since January has been the best right back in the world again. Still seems as fit as a butchers dog as well.
Smalling will be our main stay in defence as long as he remains fit and eventually could become our captain if we sign a striker to replace Rooney (talk about it in another post). His partner should be one of Hummels, Laporte and Otamendi (in that order).
Lastly the CDM in front of the backline. I think we should try our hardest to get Schweinsteiger in if there is any possibility of him moving. We will play a high line so his pace wouldn't be a worry and he brings vital experience. Don't think Gundogan can play here. Failing Schweinsteiger then Nainggolan}

29 May 2015 14:47:41
I don't think it's an issue of money with De Gea. We have offered him a massive deal, higher than what Madrid are offering. The problem is that De Gea wants to go back to Spain at some stage, and this may be his best chance to go back to one of the big two. His agent wants him to go, his girlfriend wants him to go, and the Madrid hierarchy are set on him. I honestly can't see any way for him to stay. If he was going to sign, he would have already. Now that the season's over and he gets to spend some time back home, it'll be Madrid all the way.

29 May 2015 15:23:55
Gk - I don't think its to do with money and if he does go I'd be happy with any out of Lloris, Begovic and Chech. Its the one position where I'm not bothered about age and getting someone with Epl experience would be a bonus.

CB - we need 2 but I'd only get 1 because we need an element of continuity in the squad so can't afford to do everything at once. Smalling has been our best CB and will likely partner the new guy but I'm still not convinced he will end up a top player, happy to give him the chance for the time being though. I can't think of an available CB who is world class and ticks all the boxes. I'd gladly take Hummels if that's who the manager favours, I don't watch enough European football to make a better call. Rojo, Jones and McNair as back up with Evans sold.

RB - must sign a first teamer, personally would like Coleman and the fact he's homegrown would be a bonus. If he's too expensive i'm struggling for a better suggestion. Rafael to leave and Valencia as back up.

29 May 2015 15:24:19
Infomative as ever Ed004. I know it is sexy to talk about the flair players but i honestly beieve that defense is the game changer for us next year. In rugby the phrase is 'backs wins you matches, forwards win you trophy's' and the same is true in football (Forwards being defenders of course).
I think Cech could do for us what Van De Sar did and be our keeper for years. The challenge is getting chelsea to sell (but we mayhave a good relationship now) and getting him to move from London.
The moves LVG made at the end of the season with Smalling being the captain does suggest he will be a main stay for next year and it will be about finding his perfect partner. He has improved (i did not rate him at all at the start of the season). A strong leader beside him dictating the defence and he could really develop again.
Was going to talk about HM as it is the link between the defence and rest of the team. but thought it would just cloud the defense debate. THat said Schweinsteiger would be great. or Marinez but that seems very unlikel or too much money!

{Ed004's Note - If De Gea goes or not I expect a rb, cb and CDM signed. Pretty sure LvG has confirmed a CDM will be signed anyways. Just my opinions on who would be best really}

29 May 2015 15:47:09
I quite like Inigo Martinez at CB and potentially Laporte. Don't know anything about Otamendi and Hummells seems to of gone off the radar? Clyne or Janmaat at RB and Schweinsteiger CDM.

{Ed004's Note - Haven't seen Martinez play. How good is he?}

29 May 2015 17:27:24
For me, going forward I think the obvious choice would be Laporte? Big, strong, young experienced CB! And with us looking at Rodriguez of Wolfsburg for LB again, good, young and experienced? Back line would be immense! I'd be happy with that!

29 May 2015 15:57:16
I am by no means at expert on him 004 but from what I have seen of him he reminds me of a young Ferdinand? I could be miles of this but he seems more the Ferdinand then the Vidic? I'm sure someone will either correct of elaborate more.

29 May 2015 17:37:09
I honestly think de gea will leave as much as I'd love him to stay, we need to start looking to the future though rather than sign Cech who is over 30 I think we should go for someone a bit younger. Begovic could be good and so could cilleson. Although they aren't really luxurious names they are good goalkeepers and could do the job for years. However I also think we should let valdes have a go for a year and sign a young goalkeeper and try to build them into a great goalkeeper like we have done with de gea. Promoting one of the youth keepers like pereira could also be an option.
Any goalkeeper will need a good defence in front of them though to make them look good. Which brings me to the defenders we could do with:-
At right back I think we should go for alves. Although he won't be a long term fix and clyne or Coleman would probably be better in the long run, I think a free transfer for a player who is in the top 3 right backs in the world would be very good business and he would probably be our first choice for the next 2 years. My personal opinion is that Valencia will be good cover for him and we can also give McNair a chance to become a top right back if we don't choose to have him at centre back because we don't want another phil jones situation.
Centre back
I think we only really need 1 top centre back because we've got smalling, rojo, jones and Blackett and McNair if he's chosen at centre back rather than right back. I think that we could do with a hummels type of player who has the brains because smalling is fast enough for a centre back and the full backs will be fast as well. I would still be very happy with otamendi signing because he is a beast!
We've got plenty of cover at left back. My view is that Luke shaw will become the best in the league and rojo and blind are damn good cover!
As for a defensive midfielder I would love schweinsteiger over anyone! Regardless of his age he's such a good player and would bring so much to our team! If not him then schneiderlin

29 May 2015 20:09:54
Ports, I've been a massive admirer of Martinez for awhile now and I'd say he's very similar to Pique but he has far more pace to cover. Absolutely brilliant player but I don't think we have shown any interest, sadly.

29 May 2015 13:27:09
Ronaldo: assuming it's just lazy journalism suggesting Perez loves Bale and Benitez wants to build a team around the Welshman but if that were the case does anyone and in particular the Eds see Ronaldo moving on ?

FFP: semi related to the above as I'm sure if Ronaldo were available there would in all probability be only United, City, Chelsea and PSG who could afford his 300k pw suggested wage demands. I understand given our c.£400m turnover we are relatively FFP proof but how do others fair? Paper talk of City leading the race for Pogba for example with an £80m bid (whether true or not) but could City or PSG, given they've already breached FFP once, countenance a 'monster' bid such as Pogba or Ronaldo for that matter would require ? I appreciate any side could sell players and FFP will be based on net spend.

Or do you think United are in a position where we could effectively outbid anyone ?

29 May 2015 13:50:49
Haha, poor Fresh beaten to the punch this summer.

29 May 2015 14:10:04
You have just ruined Fresh's weekend Halesini!

29 May 2015 15:52:45
New kid on the block has thrown away the Annual Fresh Ronaldo debate!

Was looking forward to it as well! :(

29 May 2015 00:55:28
Just watched the Keane & Vieira documentary. JMB was talking about wanting our 'identity' back and I think part of it was the passion of such players for the team. Playing against Arsenal during those years was so exciting - I remember that I was pumped for weeks for that and I loved seeing the tensions simmer over. I never enjoyed seeing violence as such but the passion of such rivalries is really missing I think. I agree with both players when they say teams seem too 'nice' with each other these days. As for the 99 Champions League final - can't believe it's already 16 years! Where have they gone?

29 May 2015 08:51:27
RJ - I agree with you completey mate. Remember when Fergie was too irate to give press conferences after games because we may have lost or drawn. How he was so animated on the touch line that you just knew he wanted to be the best and for us to be the best. Could you imagine a ballerina like Di Maria getting away with his going down at the slightest touch if Keano was captain?

You have hit the nail on the head mate. We want passion and a will to win. Not stats and sluggish dispays. We are losing our identity.

29 May 2015 09:35:55
Those days were fantastic but now Gerrard has left the Premier League, name me a combative midfielder who is also good enough to play for United? The game has changed, we are not losing our identity, we are adapting it to fit the modern day game. Unless you think Joey Barton, Tiote are the answers to our midfield? And don't try and claim a player like Pogba or Verratti are in the same league in terms of passion and aggression as Keane and Viera. The game has moved on and we have to, is it for the best? I personally don't believe so but that's the way it is, Gerrard, Carragher, Viera, Keane, Neville, Scholes, these players were the last of their kind and a new midfielder is required in the game.

29 May 2015 09:53:31
I agree to a point - Chelsea are a team that show how to make the most of physical and mental attributes in the EPL but at the same time, things have changed and you can't get away with a lot of what Keane, Viera or even Saf used to get up to.

I definitely think we need to add a bit of bite to our spine though, hopefully we can achieve that this summer.

29 May 2015 10:40:26
Good point Ports and I agree with you that the game was better 10/15 years ago. You could throw in the transfer window deadlines and agents into the mix of how football has changed for the worse.

HB - As much as I am not his biggest fan (in terms of as a person) what a player like John Terry brings to Chelsea is there for all to see. He bleeds blue sweat for them every game and is always barking orders on the field.

29 May 2015 10:47:48
Agreed jmb. Courtois, Terry, Cahill, Matic and Costa gives them a very robust yet talented spine which will hold them in good stead especially in the Epl.

29 May 2015 11:03:48
I remember Solskjær said in an interview that one of his first training sessions he did something to make Keano angry, and he said he would wait for him in the parkinglot after the session to kick his ass. He smiled back at him cause he thought he was kidding. He said he has never been so affraid when he saw him waitimg for him in the parkinglot after the session. Miss the Keano days for shure.

29 May 2015 11:10:15
HB - Everyone always goes on about how good Hazard is but if I could take one player from Chelsea it would Matic. Killer player and quietly goes about his business.

29 May 2015 11:31:19
Parking Lot, I didn't know we trained in America Norweigan!

29 May 2015 11:34:55
Didn't Roy grab Fletcher by the throat in his first ever training session for passing the ball sideways when there was a forward pass on?

Luckily he'd long gone before Cleverly broke through, lol.

29 May 2015 12:01:24
The game has suffered for getting softer no doubt. The rule makers have to take a lot of the blame as well though, it is stifling characters, aggression, passion. You can't take your shirt off when you score, you can't tackle in certain ways even if you win the ball first. Everything is just going soft nowadays, pandering to the PC brigade.

Money is destroying it, too much at stake to allow for physicality now, great shame.

29 May 2015 13:28:29
Couldn't have said it better myself Beast.

29 May 2015 14:16:34
Haha, sorry for my american english GDS. We do learn english in school over here, but i guess our main media input is from the states, hence the american words.

29 May 2015 15:32:31
Haha no worries mate it just made me laugh. I do remember that story from Ole to be honest and it did make me laugh, Keane was a nutter and the players didn't want to upset him, that kind of character can really work in a team of winners, but can also go the wrong way if a team is low on confidence. Fortunately Roy was here when we had a hell of a lot of winners in the side.