Manchester United Banter Archive April 02 2013

02 Apr 2013 23:11:26
If you go through all inter-national European teams and can't find anybody
Better than cleverly, who wouldn't cost the sun, moon and star's, you are either blind or happy with average. He's 24 not 20 and will not get much better.


Stagmufc

Then you Sir miss the point of the team sport that is football.

You could replace that hole m-field for 30-35 if our scouts would do there job.

But is he better than Phil Neville?

Just about AJH

Hes not better than tracey neville
johndenton

02 Apr 2013 21:11:53
is it true that scouts was watching porto against braga for eliaquim mangala or alex sandro.

Alex Sandro would be a fantastic signing, not as clued up on Mangala.

Both are great talents. I would say we have more of a need for Alex Sandro though. I can't see us signing a CB unless Vidic leaves. As with Vidic along with Evans Smalling and Jones we look sorted in defence. Add to that possibly Rio staying for one more season plus Micheal Keane looking better and better with each passing game. If Vidic was to leave Mangala would be a good option, but personally with the very young CB's we currently have I would have thought it would be better to go for someone more experianced. Personally i'd go for someone like Benatia.

Why are we looking at Centre Backs? We are desperate for new midfield / wingers and possibly a left back. All this talk of CBs and strikers is worrying - I'm all for new talent but midfield is crying out for serious investment.

02 Apr 2013 20:49:09
Judging by the PSG - Barca game Beckham would still walk in our midfield even at this age.

He's still so passionate about the game

Adz

In much better physical shape than Rooney.

Imagine if we did bring him back into the squad for next season to add a little experiance when scholes leaves, I for one think it could really push and motivate some of our players to have such a ledgend back in the squad plus imagine the money we would rake in from shirt sales

Most people are in better shape than Rooney and Anderson ;)

Mad Hatter

Nooooooo! Beckham was a great player for us but his legs have gone. He wouldn't last 5 minutes in any PL team. Not disrespecting him - top bloke, great pro, United boy through and through but come on, are you serious?

AJH I don't think the OP was suggesting we sign him, merely that he would probably get into our side at present and with the form of Nani and Valencia I would tend to agree.

TK-Red

02 Apr 2013 19:59:39
I know at the moment it's a bit doom and gloom after the Champions League and FA Cup exits, just wanted to invite everyone down memory lane by asking for their 3 favourite players to don the red shirt.

For me I've supported the team since around 1992. My favourite players have been Eric Cantona, David Beckham and lastly Roy Keane.

I know some will have their favourites - particularly those lucky enough to have seen Duncan Edwards, George Best and some of the other greats to wear the red shirt - wish I'd been olde enough. Just wanted to know whoever everyone's favourites are.

Adz

I'm pretty young, so my favourites have been van Nistelrooy and Ronaldo. Currently my favourite is actually Rafael but also De Gea and RVP (who seems like he has been playing for us for years). If I could go back in time I would certainly go an see Best, Edwards, Law, Charlton etc play, would be a real education.

1. Scholes
2. Cantona
3. Rooney

Djay

Vidic
Roy Keane - only as a player as I can't stand him now
Solskjaer (spelling)

Robson, Irwin, Ronaldo.

Been a fan since 85.

Stagmufc

Cantona, Ronaldo and Solskjaer.

I'd love to have seen those three in their prime in the same team with maybe RvP just infront of them like this:

Solskjear_Cantona_Ronaldo
__________RvP

very mouth watering.

My favourite three I have watched since late 80's was Big Pete, Keane and Blomqvist.

In this order:
1. Irwin (always thought he was underrated, but also because he was the LB I tried/try to live up to)
2. van der Sar (Just brilliant, excellent father-figure to the whole team and such a nice man, also such a long career at the very top)
3. Solskjaer (who put the ball in the scousers net?)

Jaxer

1. Ronaldo
2. Ole Gunner Solskjaer
3. Ryan Giggs

ALDUtd

I'm one of the youngest hear and the best players I've seen are
1) Ronaldo
2) Vidic
3) Scholes

Caolán.

1: Cantona
2: Keane
3: Hughes

From what I've seen ( remember back to about 1990 )

Ronaldo
Scholes
Giggs

Moog

Robson, Cantona, Ronaldo

Vidic up there too.

Shahram

Im 39 my first hero was Steve Coppell, My all time hero captain marvel Bryan Robson then The KIng Eric Cantona
Blackpool Red

Ronaldo
Beckham
Cantona

Although always had a soft spot for Andy Cole.

Boyley

03 Apr 2013 13:17:16
Robson, Cantona and Scholes but shout outs to Coppell, Giggs, OGS, Ronaldo. MrE

02 Apr 2013 18:06:35
Somepeople have been making noise about Ole GS being part of new managerial setup at united but he would need more xp first. Where do people see him going after molde. What would you think of him going to Leeds?

JohnTheRedMaroon97

I can see ole taking over with giggs along side him in maybe 2 seasons when sir alex decides to call it a day, why not? good fresh start with 2 legends of the club, players would look up to them and show them the respect they deserve, I would love to see this happen, you never know.
BIGAL REDFOREVER
p. s just think of the buzz and vibe around the stadium every time these 2 walked out

It is a big question and one that will become the subject of increased speculation. There is a reason History is taught and that is so we can learn from the past so as not to make the same mistakes in the future.

I was around when Sir Matt retired and we appointed Wilf McGuiness. Do some research and find out what happened.
Sir Alex has made this the biggest job in world football and it will need to be passed to someone with experience to carry the role. I am totally against Moyes because he lacks experience in the most important areas, managing to win championships and European games of major relevance and a lack of success, in short he hasn't been a champion. In the same vein Giggs doesn't have the experience at all and Ole even with league wins is nowhere near experienced to the level needed. It would be beyond a massive risk. The buzz in the stadium would quickly disappear as the pressure told but the key point would be the potential destruction of a talented young manager because of that pressure.
The next manager needs to be experienced a Mourinho or Guardiola with perhaps Klopp as another.
It is too big for Giggs and Ole although Manager after next could be a possibility if they get experience particularly Ole

How about Ole to Leicester? Rumours that Pearson will be sacked, we got a good relationship with them so he'd get to know our youngsters?

I think Leicester is likely too, Pearson is having an awful run. I'd be loathed to see him go to Leeds.

Leeds fans wouldn't want him and atm the Leeds job is a dead end job. I think the Leicester job could be a good option. But the better one I would have thought would be Everton. It seems more and more likely that Moyes will leave Everton in the summer (i'd like to see him go to Schalke and have a go with a decent team in a league where he could get them to the title). In which case there will be a gapping hole at Everton, i'd like to see Ole step in there. Sir Alex told McClaren to pick a chairman not a club, as if you are in with the chairman then your job becomes easier and safer. I think Bill Kenwright seems like the kind of chairman to back his manager and give him time. Then we can see if Ole can get Everton playing attacking football, he's good with developing young players and Everton have a good academy. We would also see how he copes when he has big shoes to fill as Moyes has been a legend at Everton. Give him a year or two there and see how he's progressing.

03 Apr 2013 16:22:45
Ole wouldn't manage for them, only people like Warnock would do that

Jaxer

(sorry, they may never be premier league again but I will always dislike Leeds

02 Apr 2013 14:52:59
Sly Sports reporting Rooney is wanted by PSG, no bid currently made but they're saying Rooney is in their plans.

Rooney and fergy still at odds since he said he was going to leave - hardly talk anymore- best he goes now and take a few more with him, nani etc - won't be easy next season

02 Apr 2013 13:51:00
What would people think to nani and young out, attacking 4 of gotze Rooney kagawa with rvp in front, welbeck and Valencia coming on as wingers when width is needed as well as zaha and van velzen been eased in

19JackC94

02 Apr 2013 09:44:31
I'm not going to comment on the way we played yesterday enough people have done that! What I do want to say is what an absolute disgrace nani is, the way he drops to the floor for even the slightest of touches is a joke. I don't think there is one other player in our team that play acts like he does. Maybe someone like vidic needs to give him a good smack just to let him know what it actually feels like and then he may be less inclined to carry on with these antics.
Rant over!
Nathan

Young?

While I agree young does go down like he has been shot in the arse, and I don't agree with it, at least he usually gets back up without putting on a performance worthy of an oscar!
Nathan

I hope all see how useless Nani is now

02 Apr 2013 08:24:17
Stupid phone, does anyone else find it awkward to post using your phone? Either way. I'll finish off my post.

Some players aren't quite to the standard needed for our first team, but that's not to say they don't deserve to be here. We have more than 11 players in our squad and this isn't fantasy football. Its a squad game, and as such you need a group of players, some will be better than others if we try and get 25 world class players not only would that cost the earth but it wouldn't work as a team. As Perez found out with Real Madrid. World class players tend to have world class egos to go with it, which only works to disrupt the team spirit. The Youngs, the Cleverleys, the Welbecks are vital in order to succeed in football, these lads step in when asked, they do a job and they never moan. Yet all they get in return for their exemperlary service is rubbish from fans. They give their all for the club for the shirt and ultimately for us. And this is how we repay them? I hope some of you reading this are feeling alittle bit ashamed of your actions now. All you can ask of anyone is for them to do their best, these lads do, that is why Sir Alex keeps them, they have the right attitude, i'd rather have a
team of Cleverleys than a team of Balotelli's

Oh in that case let's go out and sign loads of ok players, how silly is this post, no one is expecting 25 worldies but I still expect a level of performance from players we have paid top money for!
Chris the REDman

That's exactly it Shappy.

You dare to try and ask for some perspective and reasoning on here after a disappointing result, and you get lit on for having rose-tinted specs, and limited ambition.

People on here thinking they could suddenly do better than Fergie when it comes to tactics/team selection/transfer picks etc I have no idea how they are all on a lowly banter site, when obviously they should be managing at the very highest level.

I can almost understand the ire of some of the younger ones, brought up on this success, but some of the older supporters, who've been through the mediocrity of bygone days, should really know better.

Some people think we have some divine right to win everything, and get all the best players, coming out with the mantra - We are Man Utd, therefore we should never settle for anything less than being the best.

Meanwhile back in the real world, more and more clubs are getting petrodollars thrown at them, top players don't fancy coming to Manchester and we are trying to bring young players through as Utd have always done, rather than go out and buy 11 superstars. We have always been about evolution rather than revolution.

Everyone likes a good moan now and then, and some of our performances this season have been disappointing - we're not blind. But answer me this - when City won the league last year, how many of us thought, 'sh!t. With all that money AND now a winning mentality, that'll be them for the next lot of years'?

In those circumstances, I'd have bit your hand off for a league title this season, but I wouldn't have believed deep down it could happen.

But yet again, SAF has shown what an extraordinary manager he is. Couple that with the fact that City have proved you just can't go out and splash the cash on fantasy players, and get guaranteed success, and you have us 15 points clear. 15 people!

And just like I don't really think we're 15 points better than City, I also don't think we're anywhere near as bad as some people are saying.

So for all those who have been berating Fergie and his team after every setback this season, I'd just ask, take a deep breath before you post, try and appreciate what we have achieved, and wait til the summer to see what it brings.

Agree with Shappy and StevieK TBH.

The problems in the squad have been there for all to see all season. We lack quality and depth in CM and some real quality out wide. One poor performance or bad result doesn't change that. We need SAF to address these areas in the summer but I've known that all along so I'm not going to come out after every poor result/performance to repeat it.

There are other areas of the squad, such as up front, CB and some youngsters - like DDG, Rafael etc - which I am really happy with.

I also thought City would be too strong in the EPL this season so I'm delighted we're 15 points ahead of them. We didn't deserve to be knocked out by Real IMO but we did against Chelsea. All in all I'm not too disappointed with that showing given how things ended last season.

If SAF gets a good CM'er and winger in the summer then I'll be happy and will feel confident that we can compete next season. If we don't make those signings I will be disappointed but let's just wait to see how the summer pans out before worrying about it.

HBadger

Good posts Gents,

I would also like to make the point of how difficult it is to build a new team and maintain success and challenge for trophies. Lots of teams go through transition, it's natural but they do not challenge or achieve success in that period. SAF is currently building 6th, 7th, 8th team possibly in his successful period at United and still challenges for trophies and achieves success.

Liverpool failed to do this at the end of the 80's early 90's, Arsenal have failed to do this for the past 8 years, Blackburn failed to do it, Chelsea although relatively successful in cups have failed to challenge the league in the last couple of years.

SAF has always maintained a challenge with the teams he has created. As StevieK has said, come the summer when SAF strengthens I believe we will see and are starting to see a more dominant Manchester United again.

The expectation sometimes has to be realistic with the changes the team is making, the changes that the teams around us are making and the changes that football is making as a whole. Unfortunately the glories of days gone by have made expectations higher then what reality allows them to be which leads to the criticism and disappointment that people express but a little bit of perspective and long term thinking should fill us with confidence.

I'd rather consistent success then a short period of domination.

C'mon Steve.

We don't have a divine right to win everything but we have the largest fan base in the world, we have the 3rd largest turnover of any club in the world and not taking into account the imminent nike and TV deals coming.

Taking the above into account we naturally have expectations of having top players and trophies at this great club. If we don't achieve that then as a club the owners and the management have under delivered.

When it come to players there has to be a minimum standard and that does not not mean they have to be all Ballon d'Or candidates but have to play to a certain high standard and there are many in the current squad who are average and that is not good enough.

When you are the size of United the tolerance level for average is very low and you always have to deliver at a high level.

Shahram

02 Apr 2013 12:39:50
Chris what would you consider "top money"? I would think nowadays you'd have to say "top money" would be about 20m. So how many of our players yesterday cost "top money"? Rio but that was along time ago, and RVP when he came on. But my point is it isn't the top players who we've paid "top money" for who get slated, its Welbeck and Cleverley who we've paid nothing for, or Evra who cost us 4m six years ago. that's my point. We either buy young players and develop them or we promote from within and develop them. That means a lot of our team are players learning the ropes, so you can't expect them to perform in the same way as players who are at the top of the game.

Sharham - you make a valid point but then when have we ever gone a number of years without winning titles? That's where the level of expectation lies IMO. We've been trhough countless transistions yet usually keep winning things which is incredible really.

Look at the likes of Real & Barca even - massive clubs in a much less competetive league - yet they have both gone through periods of failed success. In Real's case even when they were spending 100's of millions.

You talk about a 'certain minimum standard of player'. Sounds good in theory but a squad is made up of 25 individuals, there will always be 1 or 2 below par unfortunately. Player's that some call below par are Young, Nani, Valencia, Anderson etc. etc. Let's not forget we payed big money for all of these, over £60m for these 4 players. We obviously didn't think they were below par when we paid that much for them and as is right - we have given them every chance to prove themselves. We can't just get rid of a £15m player after a poor 1st season like Chlesea or City might.

Now I do agree a time must come when we cut our losses but it will only be 1 or 2 players replaced at a time so we will have to put up with 1 or 2 more of these players for a bit longer. Hopefully, if we replace say Nani and Anderson - this will provide the kick up the ar5e needed to Young & Valencia to up their games. There are many ways to improve and motivate a squad, not just by selling players and buying new ones.

HBadger

I would consider spending over 15m on a player apprently at his peak in young top money, spending 20m plus on nani and after 5-6 season he is still as inconsistent as ever a lot like wise with ando, come on are u really happy with the level of performance from our apperent big players? i'm not, this year granted was all about winning the league but i'm just not happy about lying down in the other cups, for gods sake we are united any1 we play should know they are in for a test and I feel against chelsea and others they haven't been, we rely way too much on rvp, carrick and our defence too much to win us games! i'm not expecting 25 worldclass players but I do expect young to grab his chance at the biggest club in the world and run with it not just go through the motions, I expect nani to play his heart out for that contract not give the ball away at every moment, like I have said having and giving time with youth i'm fine with but we can't except our expirenced squad players too give that level of performance on an almost regular basis now.

02 Apr 2013 16:45:18
I would say that all the top players go for top money, fees currently such as Ronaldo's 80m or the 50m for Kaka or Falcao. So I would say top money has to be at least 20m in the modern game. But I except this is down to opinion.

As for Young, it was questioned whether he was good enough when he signed. And imo we did over pay for him. But he did well in his first year, he didn't set the world alight but I thought he lived up to what we paid for him. This season he has been in and out of the team with injuries. The same can be said for all our wingers this year. I also think a lot of the reason our wingers have been poor is down to tactics this year. So it would be abit unfair laying all the blame for their form at their door.

I can't say for sure but I thought Nani's fee was 14m rising to 17m depending on him achieving certain criteria. And Anderson was 18m raising to 24m depending on clauses being met.

As for am I happy with the way we played? Of course not. But I made an effort not to jump the gun and run my mouth off and potentially make a fool of myself. I took a step back and looked at it logically. Why did we play poorly? Because I know the players can do better than they did, so its obviously not because they aren't good enough. I'm not saying be happy with poor performances, i'm saying stop and think.

HB

I did not say we have gone years without trophies. You are saying the same thing I am saying and I am not an advocate of getting rid of players after 1 year, unless it is quite evident that they can't play at the level required by United.

I wrote something earlier today but it was not posted and the reality is we need to buy 4 proper players this summer and 4 next summer. I don't agree with the notion of that we need some minor tweaking or evolution as people call it here.

Our current style of play is getting us results this season but we are pushing our luck and can't keep doing this. The squad has many average players and not enough great players.

I hope we pay for some established players come this summer and see a major improvement in our style of play and general control of games.

Watching us get bombarded and dominated for long spell of games by average teams is a clear reflection of how average some of our player are.

BTW I have posted this before for those who think Strootman is the savior, you will be grossly disappointed if that is the extent of our summer activity.


Shahram

I think everyone is making valid points. The team will hopefully win the league and for that we must be happy with our season.
Disappointment is that three weeks ago, we were in two cup competitions and now we're out of them. CL was never going to be within our capabilities and that is the worrying thing. The fa cup should have been done after the first half showing against Chelsea at OT, but Chelsea changed tactics and we did not respond. This also happened against Real after nani's sending off.
Going forward, I agree with Chris the redman and shahram, in that our first team has a lot of average players, if we are to improve and challenge the barca's and real's of this world then we must buy world class players.
So no one was insulting cleverley or welbeck or any of the players, we just want a team that could challenge against the top teams. And while we're at it, a team that can play with modern tactics. I don't think nani, Anderson, young and Valencia have what it takes, so hopefully, we can offload them and buy some better players.
I'm sure saf knows more than anyone what is required, he will hopefully sort out our shortcomings in the summer.
Nomidfield

02 Apr 2013 07:28:27
Fingers crossed the league should be relatively straight forward now and we can avoid the drama of previous years. Whilst we are a mile clear there a some really interesting stories developing. Check out the bottom of the table. There are now only 4 points between 12th and 18th. QPR and Reading appear gone and everyone's money is now on Sunderland for that third relegation spot. However, check out Stoke - 5 points from their last 10 games. At that rate, they could be overtaken, even by Sunderland. Norwich - 7 points from the last 10 games are in a similar position and even the "massive" club that is Newcastle find themselves being drawn in. Not United related but fascinating

I was with a friend who is massive stoke fan, and he is convinced they are going down. I hope it is Sunderland instead!
Nomidfield

Who u backing to go down? Ill say reading, qpr, stoke
Chris the REDman

I can see Reading, Norwich and Sunderland going down. I have a sneaky feeling the QPR may just edge it by a point or two on the last day.

-JakeW

Oh no, now that QPR are going down which team will I back for a tie in almost every league game and usually win?

I think reading, QPR and Sunderland
Nomidfield