Manchester United Banter Archive February 02 2015

02 Feb 2015 23:31:39
I would just like to say good luck to Darren Fletcher, a great servant to our club and a true professional.
All the best Darren.

{Ed002's Note - Good for you Herbie.}

I agree Herbie. Shame to see him leave but after his fight back to.health he deserves to be playing every week rather than a few mins here and there.
Good luck Fletch. .WBA have got a cracking signing

02 Feb 2015 20:32:03
Balague has said Falcao was tricked and thought he'd signed a long term deal at United.

He comes out with some crackers but this one is the best for a while.

02 Feb 2015 17:06:12
well the German window is now shut so a guess hummels is going to be a summer target.

{Ed002's Note - They can still sell.}

Most likely, only a fool would sell their first choice CB and not bring in a replacement. We aren't signing anyone for the first team tonight.

Right, Elvis. That would be like letting your two most experienced CB's go and signing a left back to replace them. Nobody would be that foolish!

Redseven, Rojo hasn't been to shabby so far though, just need to work out who his partner is.

02 Feb 2015 19:31:55
Take a look at what those two experienced cbs have done since leaving

02 Feb 2015 15:00:43
Hi all,

Just a few thoughts on our more recent transfer activity, specifically how our approach seems to have evolved since the retirement of Sir Alex and indeed David Gill.

Now this of course is (only) my own opinion, and the information I use to form my opinion comes from a combination of what the club chooses to disclose, reports from mainstream media and of course the information and speculation kindly shared by Ed002 and others here.

We have always been prepared to pay huge fees and wages for the right player at the right time. I don't think we were ever conservative in that regard. Until recently we held the "record" for highest fee paid for a defender (Rio), goalkeeper, and possibly teenager with the signing of Rooney?. So although we have spent huge amounts on fees and wages over the last 18 months I don't really see this a significant change in strategy.

There are however at least two clear differences in our overall transfer strategy when compared with recent times under Sir Alex and David Gill. To clarify (and simplify), I use the term strategy to encompass how the club select players to acquire, communication and crucially, how many players the club decides to sign, irrespective of the market value of any given player.

Disclosure:
Like many of us here I was surprised and concerned in the early stages of Moyes's tenure when players and bids were openly discussed in press conferences. Whether this was the manager's inexperience or a deliberate communication strategy meant nothing. The nearer to deadline the more desperate we began to appear to others. I realize how difficult it would be to keep something with so many moving (and talking) parts confidential but for many years the club strove to create a brand synonymous with class and integrity. The marketing value of our crest will hold no importance to many fans, neither will what is disclosed by managers and what isn't, but the way representatives of our beloved club conduct themselves under the media spotlight does matter, because it all contributes in some way to our identity. With so many of us coming from all over the world how we identify with our club is everything.

Scatter-gun
Yes i was excited when Di-Maria signed! A player who was of interest to us before he signed for Madrid. Falcao had me buzzing, Blind and Herrera was a relief after so much frustration concerning our midfield, Shaw filled a like for like hole. In fact I couldn't really make a case against signing any of these players. What concerns me is signing ALL of them. I've always been fascinated by the psychological aspects of management and leadership, and love to listen to the Boss congratulate himself from time to time for how he maintained total control and intent throughout the ongoing process of managing and assembling the right squad. And this is what prompts me to stop work and type this post. I have to wonder how much thought and analysis has gone into selecting these stars we bought? not individually but in the context of a team? I'm not referring to tactics or dare i say it: philosophy. I'm talking about what made the likes of Evra, Vidic, Rio and others identifiable as Manchester United players. I'm sure we will continue to add world class talent to our squad and be back to the top soon enough, but part of me feels like we're moving too fast at the expense of what makes us Manchester United. Maybe I won't care next time I'm celebrating a league title, but will the club grow as much in the next 20 years as galacticos as it has in the last 20?

Brendan

Good post Brendan. I was just thinking over dinner how Zaha being sold for £3m when he was purchased for £15m and loaned out most of that time is an absolute disgrace.

Then I was thinking about Anderson, he arrived with Nani & Hargreaves over £50m of talent that we will be lucky to recoup more than £7m for and have basically seen nothing from them and forked out God knows how much in wages.

Then we have Jones, Smalling, Young who have don't nothing of note. Potentially Mata, Herrera, Fellaini that have all not been needed, wanted or not suitable in recent times. Kagawa is another we wasted.

Woodward's naivety was to blame under Moyes, people forget it was his first year doing this as well which wouldn't have helped Moyes or our image as you describe.

In any other industry the way we have wasted millions and particularly overpaid in recent years would not be tolerated, ADM is another I think we paid double what he was worth and aside from 4-5 games has been very poor so far. He does look like he could be awesome for us, but again those flashes need to occur more frequently.

I worry about our ability in these transfer negotiations and the identification of what is needed and how we secure that talent, especially youth players such as Powell and Zaha for example.

It simply isn't good enough.

Agree with both.
Just letting Zaha go is a disgrace. He will be a very good player mark my words. We'll regret this.
Also, the club don't seem to be buying"players with character". That is my biggest worry. Apart from da gea and rooney there are no characters in the team. No real captain material, no one to get the team moving in bad times.
That's why i wanted them to buy pogba or naingolan (sp). Both have strength and aggression to get the team and crowd going.
We have a team full of pushovers. That's why we'll continue struggling away from home.
No January purchases, no top 4 place I'm afraid.

Very good post Brendan. The problem is that the world of football has changed so much over the last 20 years that the way we do things from now on may not sit quite comfortably with many of us. But it is the way things are moving in football, we can either compete or choose not to.

Maybe that is a damned if you do and damned if you don't scenario, but its the only choice we have.

Beast the fee paid for Zaha I believe was 10.2m rising to 15m if certain targets are hit. Now seeing how poorly he has played for us when given a chance I would be stunned if that original fee has been added to. Like wise there are varing reports stating that the fee we will receive for him is 3-6m. I would take an educated guess that its probably 3m to start with rising to 6m if targets are hit. Meaning in the worst case scenario he has cost us 7m and in the best 4m.

Not great business either way but that is football, not every transfer works. For the 7m we lose on a player like Zaha there is a 68m profit for players like Ronaldo.

The difference between us and other clubs is we tend to sign players when they either have huge potential or at the peak of their game which is when players cost the most.

Then we keep them during their prime and sell them when they are past their best, which is when they are at their lowest value.

Financially we miss out, but we do have great players at our club during their prime and that gives us the best chance to win titles.

It doesn't always work out as we would like but then that's the gamble of the transfer market.

02 Feb 2015 19:09:27
I'd have paid someone to take Zaha off our hands!

Well, not quite. But I think it's a case of the rose-tinted glasses, or absence makes the heart grow fonder, because do people actually remember him ever having a good game for us? And I don't mean a 10 minute spell in a pre-match friendly.

He didn't get in the team for a reason. Better judges than you or I, have deemed him not good enough for United. It's a shame, but for whatever reasons, he's away, and I don't see how we would have been able to recoup anywhere near the original fee, seeing as he's hardly played a game for us.

My issue isn't that Zaha was or wasn't good enough, its more to do with the decision to sign him in the first place, then not play him at all. The scouts and decision makers need to be pulled up because frankly over the past 10 years there have only been a couple of signings that have actually worked out.

I know what you are saying Shappy, you use the Ronaldo point, but are there any other examples? I can list dozens of players we have lost money on and had virtually zero value from them. We just seem to be taken as mugs now, we either massively overpay, or buy potential that never pans out because we waste them.

DDG is the only chance we have taken that has panned out recently, he really struggled initially but was given time. Now look at him and we will in all likelihood lose him before he has even reached his peak. Maybe that would have happened with Zaha or Powell, maybe Jones as well had we played him CB earlier. Pogba, Morrison etc, all bad attitudes apparently and not ready, but we aren't developing the talent we either buy or groomed.

Fabio was meant to be better than Rafael, but lack of games and he is now rubbish. We don't capitalise well enough on our talent and we spend £30m on Shaw to make up for it for example who is still not 100% ready yet.

People need to be held accountable for the shambles of our youth development and our transfer methodology.

02 Feb 2015 15:58:40
Eds thanks as always for the site and in particular over the past month.
I've read about De Bruyne but I don't believe we have interest there yet, very interesting points made by Ed002 earlier re: Juve's interest in Hummels. I wonder what is going through LVG's head right now, waiting til the Summer could be too late, however he may be able to negotiate a price several £million below what is being asked now if he waits. I think he should go for it now, LVG could possibly be gone himself by the Summer. Living with no regrets and all!

With wages being our problem I would have thought paying more in an initial fee would be better now than allowing a true bidding war in the Summer, especially as with more options for the player higher the wage demands will be.

02 Feb 2015 11:02:57
Any chance of anybody coming in today ed?

{Ed002's Note - Of course.}

Any news on anyone we are in talks with? De Bruyne or Hummels?

{Ed002's Note - I am not getting in to any blow-by-blow accounts. De Bruyne won't be looking for a move but paying over the odds for Hummels - perhaps Dortmund would be tempted.}

Can't see it myself, if Hummels was straight forward we would have signed him by now. Us looking at the likes of Otamendi, Laporte, Marquinios etc etc shows that Hummels is not going to happen this winter, or IMO it would have been done by now. Hopefully we will get him in the summer, but no doubt there will be other clubs interested then.

Just heard a funny one on the radio:
"Anderson's move to Brazil could be falling through because he is stuck in the transfer window"

I'm inclined to agree Syd. But hey, until Sneijder retires there is always the possibility of him haha.

02 Feb 2015 16:39:44
Looks like Ed was right in saying there was a chance of incomings before the end of the day.

'According to our colleagues at VAFC Power, Manchester United have reached an agreement with Ligue 2 side Valenciennes to sign Dayot Upamecano. The 16 year old reportedly joins the Red Devils for €450k, but it could rise to €900k with bonuses.'

02 Feb 2015 08:38:47
Ed002 - A quick transfer window related question.

We all know there will be no more business at OT this evening but could you clarify if we did indeed make serious approaches to certain players? It's been reported by a number of outlets that we have had 'bids' turned down for a number of players and even Guillem Balague claims Valencia rejected a bid form us for Otamendi. I'm not asking for players names (although that would be nice) but if you could tell us if we have indeed seriously approached any players and if so how many?

Cheers.

{Ed002's Note - I don't really know what you want. I have not said there will be "no more business". I explained at the time that Manchester United had an offer rejected for Otamendi and I have kept you up to date all along.}

What I was asking Ed is if Otamendi was the only player we put a serious bid on the table for or were there others who we put an offer to as well. We have been linked with 10,000 players but other than Otamendi I have not heard about an offer put forward for anyone else, just speculation.

{Ed002's Note - The club would not make any bids that are nor "serious". I have explained what I have known throughout the window - you should read the posts rather than ask me to write a summary for you.}

02 Feb 2015 01:22:20
Seems it will be a quiet transfer window apart from the one youngster but I am sure Sly will still sucker us in some how.

*and Valdes

Ha agreed mate we all know no-one is coming in but we will still be glued to it just in case .
I feel sorry for the poor reporter that will be stood outside Carrington all day it's bloody freezing 😁

Fletcher, Lindegaard, Anderson, Zaha, Vermijl and others could leave today. MU will not be too concerned about McNair, Blackett, Perreira etc. United will receive compensation fees for them in the summer if they choose to leave.

01 Feb 2015 23:56:04
I've just got off the phone from talking to my wife's nan's second cousin's nephew who heard it from his postman who got told it by the barmaid in the dog and duck who was told by her hairdresser who had it on good authority from her landlady who was informed by big john the taxi man who had a passenger who was told by someone at the club that we may be signing sneijder tomorrow