Manchester United Banter Archive January 02 2014

02 Jan 2014 21:48:17
Any self respecting management team would have identified January transfer targets some time ago and would have a clear strategy in place, including informal contact, some time ago, with potential targets and their clubs/agents. We'll find out in the very near future whether this degree of professional management skill is alive or not at our club.

If we are buying anyone, I would rather get them sooner than later. I wouldn't raise your hopes too much for a big signing. There are a number of factors that can go against us, mostly to do with money. And we all know the glazers are not going to be throwing that around.

Good post Paulo, was thinking exactly the same thing. With the huge failings of the summer window, you'd imagine the club would have been trying to put deals in place for the last couple of months. Window is only open a couple of days I know but that doesn't mean a deal couldn't have been struck in December for a player to sign for us early Jan. If we don't sign anybody by end of next week I fear for another shambles of a window.

02 Jan 2014 21:09:59
Just wondering what the Ed's views are of the possibility of Vidal coming to Utd?

Betting sites seem to be pushing the possibility today but I'm highly sceptical of trusting odds stories!

Really can't see it but how good would it be if we just put daft money on the table and made a statement

LOL

I think the betting sites must do very well in the transfer window as we get tied to about 50 players and in theory are buying 3 new teams:)
The next rumor is we are offering RVP for Vidal, it is just the nature of the transfer market now and I preferred it when we did not have these stupid windows.

It's interesting that the two rumours are kicking round at the same time. Maybe we offered money and unsettled Vidal so they are retaliating by unsettling RVP?

Or maybe it's all fabricated to generate a betting market!

It must at least be possible that Woodface was so embarrassed by last summer that he asked Moyes for a wish list - we can dream!

Ed 02 has said on the Chelsea page that there was a good chance Vidal could move in
January. Hopefully we will be one of the clubs interested.

Duff Man

Does anyone even know if Woodward is at work and has he been seen. My guess is that he is probably vacationing and forgot the window is open:)

03 Jan 2014 08:56:33
I don't think Juventus needs money ATM, Vidal is a superb player, But Juve is very hard to break up and they would want atleast 40 mill for him.
I don't see UTD spending that sort of amount on one single player, where we would be still left with Evra at LB.

40 Million would be worth it. He is the best in the business at what he does.

{Ed004's Note - Id offer around 25 mill and Nani. Nanis wages would go a bit in covering for Vidals as well. I only say offer Nani cause of the rumours of juves interest in}

Ed004

No argument on that one but I don't belief they would want him. I am just amused by how often he is injured, and generally terrible when he comes back from an injury and needs a few games and just when you think okay that was decent performance, he is injured again.

Guys like him and Anderson should be sold at a major loss as the savings from their wages would justify the business case.

I am not too optimistic on any major signings TBH because even though the window just opened, I would think major signings would require quite a bit of work behind the scenes and generally you get some leaks, which we have not had.

Don't be surprised to see us signing Kovacic from Inter :)

03 Jan 2014 16:08:25
ED04. But You honestly think Juve rate Nani at 15 mill?. A club who got llorente for free. pogba for free. tevez for 7. would buy Nani who isn't getting a chance at UTD for 15 mill?
They would like to Buy Nani. But never at 15 mill

{Ed004's Note - No can't see it tbh maybe around 10mil bit less}

02 Jan 2014 19:56:18
GCU

Your earlier post was rather interesting

You said "when it comes to hiring senior people including CEO's, (I sit on 2 boards as non executive) people look at track record and many other qualities in leaders"
I am interested in how many senior managers you employed based on the say so of the retiring person, without examining their CV for the requisite experience? Did you interview a selection of candidates or just accept a recommendation? Compare what David Gill said they required to Moyes details. If you sit on two boards and the outgoing CEO gave a standard that wasn't met would you accept it? Then highlight what aspects or traits of Moyes tenancy so far you feel has singled him out as a leader? How has he inspired?

"I do want to point out one thing that almost all our legends at this club were not superstars before they got here"

Oh dear that one again, we bought Rooney when he was the bright star of England and World football, Rio Ferdinand as the the best defender in the world, Keane, Cole, Veron, RVN.

"here is a go at Klopp, How does he take a team that won the CH in 2012 to lose it by 17 points in 2013 and they are already 15 points out and in 4th place in 2014. There must surely be problem with Klop or his management style or has he lost the dressing room or is it his training methods. Do we sack him as he is clearly going backwards. In real life I see it as him having injuries this year that is affecting his teams performance and market forces and nature of the transfer market is making it difficult for him to hang onto his players but he is still a good coach"

Moyes is a good coach, but Klopp has already shown far far more. Klopp has proven he can win, he can lead. Compare his CV to Moyes and let me know what you see? If we had appointed Klopp and been in this position I would be comfortable in the knowledge that he knows how to turn it around, he knows what it takes and has demonstrated it and would give him plenty of time. You may be convinced but Moyes has not demonstrated that he can do such a major role at any point in his career so we just have to guess and that is a risk.

REDMAN

1. We never hired based on an outgoing recommendation of an executive, which I agree is unusual and neither you or I know what the process was and only that SAF choice was DM.

We can all safely say his track record and accomplishments and knowledge of the game was/is highly respected at united and hence his involvement in the selection. I will tell you that although not usual but it happens in many cases where there is one candidate earmarked for a role and if he is secured then no need to look at others. In football this happens more often than not.

2. I am not close enough to him to have view on his leadership abilities and looking in from the outside and so are you. The difference is you question it without knowing anything about him or being exposed to him, I don"t.

3. None of the players you mention were recognized as the best in the world but high potential/profile players and have become household names through the success of the club and the United brand. I would also question how you can call Veron a legend if anything he failed to deliver on the promise. Keane and Cole were young up and coming player and became who he they are at United. Neither was considered world class player when we bought them. Rooney's fame today has a lot to do with the fact that he plays for United and trophies he has won being part of united. I can assure you he did not get famous for his displays for England and if anything has failed to deliver on the big stage.

4. Whilst I agree Klop is a good coach and being a winner in the past is no guarantee for future success especially in football today.
I wonder what some would say about DM if we lost some of our best players to domestic and european rivals like Dortmund is at the moment, who all seem to let their contracts run out and make for the door. I am pretty sure there will be those who will question his leadership ability and try and link it to players not wanting to play for him etc etc.

You confirmed why I had said earlier, you express your concerns by creating monsters where there are none. People are generally scared of change and will fight it.

You are in what is generally known in the anger and blame stage. Some around here are still in denial stage but from what I have read from you in the past you acknowledge we have issues long before DM got here and will need time to fix but believe he is the wrong guy to fix it.

GCU

You say you are not close enough to him to know whether he is a leader, is that not telling enough?. It isn't just those close to him he has to inspire it is his brethren and he hasn't got his message over.

I had a smile at your poor attempt to psychoanalyse. As to monsters where there are none, I think the worst home record at this stage of a season in 51 years is enough of a concern.

I know we have had issues for some time and my thoughts on that has been shared here for some time. I have long felt Moyes was the wrong choice and having lived through the seventies and then Liverpools demise from 1990 he is a massive risk and a risk we didn't need to take.

Lol not Psychoanalyzing anything mate and just see it for what it is.

A natural drop off with the change from SAF retirement, very poor summer transfer window, host of injuries, very rough schedule and just a bad run of the ball has all contributed to the results. I know people say it is an excuse and yes it is to some degree but also the reality and it is what it is.

We are no liverpool mate and in not in a Liverpool state of decline. Again stop creating demons and three headed monsters as they only exist in fiction books :)

The reality is we are in a competitive league with two teams backed by financial giants and every other team improving during the summer and we did not and having a year of transitions.

"Moyes is a risk we did not need" what does that mean and who out there was ever going to step into SAF shoes and smooth sailing.

I do agree if Fergie was still around we would be 5 or 6 points better off but will still finish 3rd/4th at best with him heading this group of players. Let's wait and see where we are come May and go from there.

GCU

Actually you don't "see it for what it is" because if you actually knew what my experience is then your poor attempts to take the psychological high ground would be seen as laughable.

Moyes is the risk we didn't need to take because there are and were many suitable managers with greater and more appropriate experience that more closely matched Gill's envisioned successor to SAF. We didn't chose any of the better candidates and took the massive risk on Moyes when we didn't need to.

Red Man

I have followed United as long as you mate and believe you will go in hiding in 12 months time and stop all this nonsense and rumor mongering about the manager.

You might not like it and think I am psychoanalyzing stuff but you are a classic case mate and a disruptive influence and no matter what :).

The unfortunate part is you actually genuinely believe you are doing good and doing your duty as you are convinced you are right. Always there to say I told you so and point out the dangers of things and never miss an opportunity. You are a classic mate just look it up "Don Quixote Syndrome" or pick up any decent book on organizational behavior and change management.

I think it is better we finish as we clearly will not agree on this. People a lot more accomplished and legends of this club have chosen this manager.

They bleed United just like anyone else and I have trust in them and until, I see other wise will either suffer or celebrate with this team and this manager.

GCU

I know more about change management than you can imagine but am also noticing how strongly you are posting these days, almost driven to defend Moyes. Interesting

I wonder what your United friends believe because the older end and some very respected senior followers than me that I know are similarly uninspired by our manager

Yep

You got me I am DM agent :). Don't honestly know what you are on about now.

I am not sure what you mean by "Your United Friends" but the guy who stepped down from the job admits the team needs rebuilding and certain players have not progressed at all even though they had high hopes for them, how is that mate, He would know a lot more than me, you and the entire football manager group, who think they know better.

Well why should I think that? Perhaps the attempt you made to discredit opinion by making claims of a psychological nature, which are such rubbish btw, against someone you know nothing about. They are very professional diversionary tactics.

You are a trip and unique guy, I give you that. You are right about me not knowing you and it was no bs psychology stuff as you are the classic case whether you like it or not.

It is always the same thing whether you realize it or not.

I am done with this banter as we are very different by nature and I suspect background and experiences.

02 Jan 2014 18:50:29
If we did fail 2 make a champions league spot what would this mean for the glazers in terms of paying the debt off? Thanks in advance RegTheRed

{Ed002's Note - It would make no difference.}

02 Jan 2014 15:03:18
Shappy wrote a bit earlier about how playing Vidic and/ or Ferdinand makes us more vulnerable to losing.

Well I think he's spot on. Vidic and Ferdinand, despite being top class defender and having great leadership qualities, no longer cut it.

To truly dominate opponents with such an average midfield, we need our defenders to step forward, shutting teams off and allowing our midfield to play a tiny bit further up the pitch, closer to the attack, where the lack of pace and movement is made up by Rooney and co playing a bit closer to the midfield, allowing Cleverley to do his job of keeping the ball moving to maximum effect close to the oppostion area.

When the older defenders play, that just doesn't happen. The midfield drops deeper in search of the ball, and the attacking players are cut off and have to drop deeper where they can't do as much damage, and this allows the opposing attackers to be closer to our goal.

But that's not our most significant problem. of all the teams in the league, we are the team who attack the least through the middle. Less than 23 % of our attacks come from the middle. That is by far the wort in the league.

On the other hand, over 40 % of our chances come from the right, making it extremely easy for any manager worth half of his wages to just cut off our attacking players by playing a hard working winger along with a solid full back.

I remember against spurs on one occasion, we had over 5 players on the left wing, including Carrick, while Tottenham only had Lennon and Walker, and we were unable to break free and eventually lost possession. They cut us off on the wing, and we lost the game.

That's how easy it is to defeat us.

Fact is in the modern game, we can no longer rely on wingers. They are too one dimensional, easy to defend against and offer next to nothing when facing a decent full back.

None of the top teams use a winger. Bayern and City play with inverted wingers, and only introduce an out and out winger when needed. Chelsea play without wingers, Barcelona and Arsenal play with wide strikers or attacking midfielders on the wings. Dortmund are the only half decent team to play with one out and out winger, and he's probably the best in his position in the world and they don't have any other options. As for real, they use inverted wingers who come inside and score bucket load of goals.

And yet, we still use the most one dimensional player ever to step foot on a football pitch ( even though he's my fav player ) and we use our most creative young player as an out and out winger. And we still wonder why we're in such a horrible position.

I'm still waiting on Moyes to understand that to win, you need to dominate the midfield and attack through the middle. Wing play has served us well historically, but that's ancient history. In the modern game, you need brains, not width.

You can blame it on the fact he failed to get any of his targets, but whenever Valencia is available, our only attacking option is pass it to Valencia and wait for him to cross.

It's just really easy to see that our best spell against Tottenham was when Januzaj was moved to the right and given a more creative role than cross on sight. Kagawa came in and we looked to create through the middle.

That's what we should do on a more daily basis. Januzaj and Kagawa on the wings, cutting inside and creating chances through the middle, with Evra and Rafael offering width and crossing as a second resort, not as a primary tactic.

Another thing I'd like to comment on. The long ball tactics. Our average number of long ball per game moved from 11 % under Ferguson to 16 % under Moyes. That's simply unacceptable imo.

Until I start to see some changes in tactics from Moyes on a more permanent level, I'm afraid I'm not going to be able to trust in his management no matter the results. He needs to follow the continental modern style of play because there's a reason we are falling so far behind the aforementioned teams who have modern thinking coaches.

On a side note, Ed002, you told us you would be able to write a piece on the transfer targets for Manchester United when you have some spare time and asked us to keep reminding you. Hope it's not an imposition

Made a similar point below. We have attempted the most crosses in the league, 533. But an amazing 423 of these crosses have been unsuccessful. The fact of the matter is that none of our strikers are the type of players who thrive on crosses into the box, but Moyes seems incapable of seeing any alternative.

Most worrying statistic is that we are bottom of the table in terms of attacking through the middle of the pitch. And to those who refuse to blame Moyes for poor tactics, with the same players last season we had the 8th most attacks through the middle.

Moyes sets the team up to run the ball down the wing and cross into the box. Even when Rooney drops deep his main role is to instigate the over used cross field ball to the right wing. We cross the ball, the defence clears it, rinse and repeat and repeat, nearly 50 crosses against Spurs = 0 goals. Don't they say that madness is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different outcome.

Excellent post Mick1. Add to this the fact that with 2 out-and-out wide players we leave a below par CM pairing to try cope against opponents with at least 3 central midfielders. I would like to see Rooney, Kagawa and Januzaj play behind a lone striker. All 3 can interchange to going wide on either flank. As for the long ball, much of the time it is by necessity as both Hernandes and to a lesser extent, Welbeck, never drop deep or run into clever spaces - always directly towards goal looking for the pass over the defence.

Great post, there is an article on ssn about our style of play and some of those stats you are referring to. Does anybody else think we could try 3 centrebacks. This would allow us to use either Raphael or Valencia as right wingback and Evra or Fabio as left wingbacks. Then we would be able to have 3 midfielders, that aren't so worried about protecting a poor defence and instead push up to support a front 2. I think with this system we wouldn't need a major rebuild of the squad.

Halellujah. I've been saying this for two years. We need to ditch the two wing tactic and play more numbers in midfield.
I also said two months ago that we need to play our quickest defenders so they can push up and push the midfield with them.
That will condense the middle making us tighter and also it will link our midfield to our attackers much better.

Same players as last Season?

Did a certain SAF not have to Give his Lad Schole's a Call Last season as he realised we have NO creative players in the middle of the park. In fact was Scholes not the most influential player in the Center, Also was a Certain Rooney not being played in the Center also causing all the upset there too. He also had the added Advantage of having a RVP firing on all Cylinders. So yeah the same players. Or B. We got no one to attack though the Center. Giggs has clearly demonstrated so far this season that he can no perform even to last seasons standards additionally. Then there is Carrick having been Injured. So what was your point again?

That's aimed at Danny P not you mick sorry

Danny

How many goals from the 8th most attacks and how many scored by RVP or how many created by RVP since you guys are getting into stats. Please, I am genuinely interested to know but suspect you might see a very highly skewed number towards RVP.

Mick

I agree with the idea of having an extra midfielder on the pitch but how do you set up and what would be the team and formation.

I don't agree with your notion that wing play is outdated and old style. I do agree our wingers are not very good and a better final product would produce many goals.

The team with probably the weakest wing play but greatest combined talent assembled to play through the middle(barcelona) have come unstuck because of their lack of width and it is the main reason for their short comings in recent years at the highest level and have really made an effort to change that with Neymar this year, who is an inverted winger/forward.

Remember last year Bayern put them to the sword with 4231 system and two inverted wingers, which is what we have gone with on many occasions and one would argue was one our greatest teams ever and some of the most attractive football we played.

Our left side play is always inverted and only the right side is what you call traditional wing play but unfortunately goes with one of the worst crossers of the ball in Mr. Valencia:)

A team that has played with 2 wingers for 20 something years can not suddenly be transformed into a 3-5-2 formation or 4-5-1 as I believe the personnel are not good enough technically or tactically.

If we were going to make such a dramatic shift it would take some serious retooling and a number of windows and few years to make that change.

02 Jan 2014 19:34:10
As I said in my previous post we have several problems, the lack of threat through the middle and our out dated tactics also being in dire need of addressing.

But every great team has been built on a solid foundation, people mention our great team of 08, and they say we miss the players of Scholes, Hargreaves, Ronaldo and Tevez ability which there is a point to that but what we really had then was a back four and goalkeeper who every team in the world envied. Neville Rio Vidic and Evra infront of VDS all bar Neville in their prime and world class. It was that defence that gave the players infront of them the freedom to attack and express themselves and it gave Sir Alex the platform to build the team and play the tactics he wanted.

When we have played with Evans Smalling or Jones as our centre backs we have played our best football. Cleverley has played his best football in those games too.

Yes we need to change our tactics to play more centrally, and we need to stop playing with out and out wingers. But before these changes are made we need to give the team the right base from which to build, we need to move Rio Vidic and Evra on and replace them with a new CB and a new LB.

for CB my first choice would be Vertonghen, but he is unlikely to be available. Mangala Schar and Martins Indi are all very good options to sign for CB.

LB for me comes down to either Alex Sandro or Ricardo Rodriguez with maybe Ben Davies as the outside contender.

After that the signings will depend on how Moyes wants to play.

Nomidfield

I have also said the same for some time, higher line more pace, look to control central midfield, play with more pace. Like Shappy said our tactics have needed updating and whilst I acknowledge GCU's point that such a dramatic shift is difficult to achieve overnight we have at times tried it but then gone back to wingers and two up front.
We all seem to favour a change yet when there was a need to inspire us with a vision going forward into a new era, it is hard to see where Fellaini fits

02 Jan 2014 21:27:48
Red man I think Fellaini will fit in fine, he just needs time to adjust. He also needs to be played further forward, not as a no.10 but much like Cleverley has played better when the team play a high defensive line then I think Fellaini will improve. He should be the deepest midfielder playing just infront of the back four but the back four should be playing almost on the half way line leaving Fellaini to play in the centre circle as the base of our midfield.
We should then have a more advanced and very mobile midfielder playing next to him such as Koke who can move the ball forward with the ball either at his feet or with his passing. Then we should play with inverted wingers Januzaj on the right then someone like Reus or Konoplyanka on the left with RvP upfront and Rooney being given free licence to move into space and create with his running and movement.

With a high line and a pressing style very few teams could live with that line up or tactics. Effectively it'd look more like a 4141 type formation. I'd also consider signing someone like Clasie who could be rotated around with Fellaini depending on whether we want a more solid presence or a more creative presence from deep.

A january/summer where we sign Mangala, Rodriguez, Clasie, Koke and Konoplyanka would solve a lot of our issues.

GCU you say we can't suddenly change to 3.5.1 but it shouldn't be too difficult. At the moment Carrick sits so deep to try and protect the defence it wouldn't be such a big change. My team choice would be De gea in net, 3 man defence of Smalling, Jones, Evans. Wing backs Raphael, Evra . Midfield 3 from Carrick, Cleverly, Kagawa, Januzaj. And 2 up front from Rooney, Rvp, Welbeck, Chicarito. This would still leave a decent bench and in my opinion would make us more fluid all over the pitch.

Redman

All systems work with the right personnel as many different teams and different styles of football have proven it. There is no such a thing as a right way or wrong way or everyone would be doing the same thing and believe me they don't need us to pint it bout to them:)

In our case the shift is not easy as some of our players will be like fish out of water. It would mean major selling of most of wingers and strikers and replacing them with winger/forwards and investing in complete new midfield group of Box to Box, Creative and attacking midfielders. we would also need to buy highly skilled centre backs that are almost midfielder quality when it come to technical ability and touch. If you read the above description far and few guys meet those requirements.

I still believe with 2 very good midfielders, a top left winger and solid cb and lb we can play our traditional 4-4-2 and win at the highest level and adjust when needed and play 5 in the middle to a 4-5-1.

I agree we need to play with a lot more pace but surely the key point is we need better, more creative players who are able to mix it up and keep the opposition guessing.

its no use just playing through the middle all the time. city got found out playing this way last season cumulating in Wigan adopting spot on tactics to nullify them in the cup final.

out and out wingers are fine if they have then ability to be equally effective coming inside as well as going outside.

totally agree about the defence. we need to play Evans alongside Jones. with a decent left back I think we'd have a pretty solid back line.

Inhope

I am not an expert on the system but Smalling and Jones are not great on the ball and you need better ball playing backs in the mold of evans, who are also good passers.

If you remember Mancini tried to get City playing that way last year and they were a disaster and they would make substitutions and ditch it mid game and in one game they ditched it after 20 minutes.

They were conceding goals with the experiment and defensively a shamble and teams were getting behind them on the wings, which is one of the flaws if I remember correctly.

I believe, Barcelona also played with 3 at the back a few years ago but have now gone to a traditional back 4.

Martinez at Wigan also played it and they were conceding goals in bunches and took some famous hammerings if I remember correctly even though they looked pretty nice offensively. I believe he is playing a traditional back four at Everton now.

Banter pleas as I might be wrong

Shahram that's the point.

Bayern play with inverted wingers, and I can't stress the word inverted enough. When crossing is needed, Lahm and Alaba are there while Robery cut inside, maintaining possession and finding through balls or shooting on target.

That movement allow the full backs to get to the byline and cross when needed.

That cannot be done with natural wingers to the same effect.

01 Jan 2014 20:03:53
Any chance of the transfer post like the one from the Chelsea page yet please Ed?

{Ed002's Note - Yes, tomorrow.}

02 Jan 2014 17:19:57
I just think we are wasting the talent of certain individuals. For me kagawa needs a run in the team as a no 10 Rooney for me is a cm player not a striker as he goes looking for the ball to much. Chicarito needs a player to play him in as he can't play any other way. He is a goal machine when given the right service, just needs a run in a team.he would score loads in a team like arsenal with the type of football they play, up front with ozil they would blow loads of teams away.
As for those saying vidic is past it. Look at Everton distan and jagielka are having a good season together as Martinez makes the team play attacking football.iif we played 3 at the back we could be getting the best out of vidic. Evans is like rio in the fact he looses concentration far to much. Smalling is lacking experience as is jones but with vidic both would become very good players.
We have a lot of good players in our squad just need to get rid of a few and replace them?
What do everyone think of this? Do you agree or not?

02 Jan 2014 15:33:30
Lb is a priority needs sorting this January evra is the reason are defense is so leaky he will lose his man and then the cb has to close the winger shifting everybody across leaving us without a cb back in the centre happens all the time. I would like anyone coentrao would be good and not to expensive I think the amounts people are saying baines would cost is ridiculous. I also think if we got him we could push evra to left midfield till the summer where we are also weak until we can get a replacement. There is quite a rebuild of the squad needed defensively we need a left back and cover and a cb to replace rio I think varela should be back up when rafael is out not cbs. We need cms 2 or 3 one in January. Anderson nani hernandez buttner bebe macheda should be sold I know a lot might disagree about hernandez but I just think we could use the money from his sale to sstrengthen where we really need it and promote keane and if you want to save money on a cb I would promote his brother. To be fair moyes has not used the young players at all not even in the cups I know januzaj plays a lot but the rest don't seem to get a look in . also I would sell kagawa I would push dortmund for a swap with reus with some money heading they're way to. I know a lot of people likr kagawa I do but I just don't think its going to work for him at old Trafford reus would fit straight in as well. Them 2 would leave a dent in the budget but if hernandez and kagawa is sold coentrea and reus wouldn't of set us back anything and we can use the mobey left to go all out for vidal and with juve not being in the last 16 of the cl I think we have a good chance of signing him in January. With those ins and outs are first 11 gets a lot stronger but makes a squad a bit smaller I think are squad is a bit to big anyway a lot of players getting paid a lot to do nothing. I know its a lot of things to happen but the rebuild needs to start now. I know swap deals are unlikely as well but klopp does like kagawa. Don't slate this its just what I feel united need to be looking at doing to makr the second half of the season better.

Funny how things change isn't it.When united were trying to sign Baines everyone was moaning saying Evra was a better player, I even heard Baines wasn't fit to lace Evra's boots which I found particularly hilarious.Anyway Baines and Shaw are no-goers so who do you want now?.As for Kagawa, when he wasn't getting in the team he was "world class" and Moyes was clueless, does everyone still think he's world class?.Also when we won six in a row the Moyes haters were very quiet, one defeat and now he's out of his depth again.Fickle springs to mind!.

Well I never said them things and I have hated evra for 2 seasons terrible defender. Kagawa I rate I just don't think he will adapt to premier league after being pretty disappointed by him even if played on the left he should play better to be honest if silva or mata played out there for city or Chelsea they still have much more impact and I am not a david moyes hater just saying what I think needs to happen to the squad because anyone can see we need to make changes

'I have hated Evra for 2 seasons'.

Hated? Seriously?

There's criticism, browred, then there's just repugnant bollix like this.

Yeah ok hate is strong but he is infuriating doesn't try and track back if he thinks he can't get there and is out of position a lot. Just think someone that will try really hard will do a better job so his lack of application in games provokes a strong reaction in me I just think he has been letting them team down for at least two years and it should have been dealt with well before now

02 Jan 2014 14:24:29
Hi,
I was just watching Ole's press conference and something simple he said. He is bringing in a couple of guys he worked with but he is keeping all the staff originally at the club, at least for now so he can assess everything. Obviously managers like to have their own staff etc but surely most are not naive enough to think they can take such a big club on without internal help. Rogers made several changes to youth set up etc but not before he had a chance to assess the staff, martinez is doing the same at everton. I only used these examples because obv i'm a pool fan and he just left everton. I'm just wondering do you think Moyes might have been better served assessing everyone, not just the players before taking such drastic action. Imo I think he was too rash to push all of the core utd/fergie staff out. I appreciate he probably thought he wanted to just start with a clean slate, I just think he was wrong. Be interested in your thoughts.
Tbh I don't think you guys are playing all that bad, just a lot of other teams have improved and at this level, small things can sway a result one way or another.

Fergie has said that he hoped Moyes would keep a few of his coaching staff, so even he was surprised that Moyes cleaned house.

A lot of people seem to think that it is standard practice for a new manager to completely change the coaching staff, but that simply isn't the case. The best option would have been a mix of new and old staff allowing Moyes's inexperienced team to learn from the guys who had experience winning titles and training top class players. This would have drastically reduced the disruption of Fergie's departure and, most importantly, provided a pool of people that Moyes could learn from.

Unfortunately, Moyes's ego got the best of him and he decided that 'his' people had what it takes to make the jump from a top ten team to title contenders. So far they have proved that they are not up to the task, but now there are no experienced coaches left that they could learn from. To be honest I think that Moyes was terrified that his authority would be undermined by Fergie's legacy and cut loose anybody who would challenge his decisions in favour of his own army of yes men.

I personally feel that this issue you've highlighted is probably the main cause for why we're in the position we're in. SAF left a league winning team behind him. and one of the elements to the success of that team was how a lot of the key players were individually managed. The backroom staff knew the strengths and limitations of some of our older players, and fitted that knowledge into our tactics. Moyes has essentially started from scratch with our current crop of players. Add to that our ineptitude in the transfer market and our overall lack of tactical ability, it really doesn't make for a pretty picture. Even keeping on just a couple of the big names in the backroom would have made a huge difference in my opinion. I, and others, have said before on here how this points to an incredible degree of arrogance on Moyes' behalf.

I'm just wondering do you think he has become over reliant on Rooney. I know Van Persie has been in an out, goals and fitness wise. I would have thought Rooney being a striker, no 10 would be better served up top. I know you are light in the middle but apart from a few diagonal balls from deep to Janusai when he was dropped into midfield he was largely ineffective back there. Since Carrick came back into mid, your build up play has slowed right down. I don't rate young myself but at least he's quite direct and gets himself into good positions.
I hear talk of Powell being loaned out again and personally I'd have him in mid with Jones and Cleverly with Rooney as cf and welbeck and janusai either side. Obviously if signings are made that could change but with what you have it would be an option. You would still have a bit more energy centrally which I think your lacking ala giggs/carrick. This still gives Rooney licence to drop deeper and a chance for any of the mids to break forward with more purpose. When VP returns he could switch with any of front 3. Plenty of firepower, energy etc. Just a thought and would give likes of young, kagawa etc to make more of an impact from the bench later in the game. What I'm basically asking is do you think Moyes is open to switching formation or will he be too stubborn and stick to a regimented 442

02 Jan 2014 13:02:05
Anyone else find it concerning that Moyes thought we defended well yesterday? Yes, he cited 2 counter attacks that 'done us'
but in truth we looked like conceding every time Spurs broke on us. I wouldn't neccessarily expect him to come out and slate the defence
so i'm clinging to the hope that deep down he knows the weaknesses we have in defence. The 2 goals against Hull were shockingly
poor goals to concede as well as yesterdays. I know none of this is new to anybody but Evra is so poor at the moment that I fear for us
every time he plays. Especially at home when the onus is on us to attack from the off. In these home games Evra is constantly caught out of position
and labours to get back at all. He seems uninterested the last 2 seasons in the defensive side of his job. Spurs exploited the fact that
our left side is terribly weak and prone to counter attacks. Coupled with the fact our central midfield area can be overrun
too easily it means the better sides can punish us like what we saw yesterday. Te writing has been on the wall for a couple of seasons
now, I just hope Moyes brings in a LB and a central box to box midfielder like everyone else on this site!

The fish rots from the head. A dour, serially unsuccessful manager will produce a dour, unsuccessful team and dour, unsuccessful results. This is what we have shackled ourselves to and the situation will continue until we unshackle ourselves from it. It is clear that things are getting worse: training regimes that guarantee injuries; tactics that produce poor and unimaginative toothless displays; management ineptitude that produces player indifference and also outright lack of interest. This is where we are. If the company does not change the management, the management will change the company. The incumbent manager has already ensured that the company has lost some $500 million in market capitalization. This will continue while we fail to play well, while we lose, while his unattractive approach to the beautiful game also ensures that we cannot attract good new players. This is the perfect storm of a financial, sporting and managerial implosion. Yet there are still the naive suggesting that we allow this destruction to continue until the end of the season, or for another season on top. When the fish rots you throw it out. So, throw it out.

Aesop

02 Jan 2014 12:47:06
hi guys

1 point i'd like to make. against everton Rafel was taken off and Valencia put to right back everton score valenica was at fault. yesterday smalling was taken from right back Valencia put back there and erikson scores when he caught Valencia cold. I don't thin its Valencia is totally at fault as he played the previous 60/70 mins of each game in midfield so mentally he wouldn't be totally focused on defensive duties straight away just wondering why not leave the right back on and take Valencia off altogether instead on trying to accomadate him as both full backs at the time were not injured it has cost us both times


cheers

02 Jan 2014 13:10:14
Exactly, Valencia is not a natural right back aand defender and its costing us. A good back up to rafael is also needed because rafael is injured too many times

02 Jan 2014 12:43:55
Atletico have reportedly signed Sosa, potentially freeing up some room for movement?

{Ed004's Note - Hopefully}

02 Jan 2014 14:04:16
I higlhy Doubt it. Over the years, they have looked deadly this seaosn. I don't see them selling a star name unless an austonishing offer comes.
Somewhere above 35 mill. don't think UTD would spend that money on a single player.
Koke, Costa, Turan, All would cost more than 35 mill

They've been performing highly for the last few years now in which time they've had a large turnover in players losing Aguero, Forlan, DDG and Falcao. Yes, large fees have been demanded in a couple of these cases, but it's getting to the point of desperation at which the Glazers are going to have to loosen the purse strings and fund a big money move or face plummeting farther down the table.

35 million for Turan, you must be joking. 35 Million for Koke is also a joke and we would never pay that. I think it is just lazy journalism and eh numbers being bantered around are quite out of whack.

No One will pay that as he is not worth that. I think one of the ed02 said he was being shopped around last summer and no takers for a lot less than that. He also mentioned we have never been interested in the player and I don't blame us.

The last part is about Turan.

02 Jan 2014 11:51:55
Now we can cry and bitch and moan about our form this season or we can take a step back and have a serious look at why we are struggling.

Now the first thing people will jump on is our midfield and to an extent they would be right, if its not our weak midfield then its Evra's fault.

Both are valid points yet we have won games and won well with both our weak midfield and Evra playing poorly at LB. So where does the blame really lie?

I have a different theory, now I do accept that we need midfield and LB reinforcements and quickly but I feel the true blame to our poor performances lie elsewhere. I suspect a few of you also deep down know it but would prefer not to point the finger at club legends.

Of course I am refering to our centre backs, more specifically Rio Ferdinand and Nemanja Vidic.

The simple fact is that in all our losses this season either one or both of Rio and Vidic were involved.

1-0 against Liverpool Rio and Vidic

4-1 against City Rio and Vidic

2-1 against West Brom Rio and Evans

1-0 against Everton Vidic and Smalling

1-0 against Newcastle Vidic and Evans

and 2-1 against Spurs Vidic and Evans

And when you consider that when we played Liverpool in the Capital one cup we beat reversed the 1-0 loss to a 1-0 win and the centre backs in that win? Smalling and Evans.

It might be a hard pill to swallow but our club captain and legend Nemanja Vidic has been the leader of our team in five of our six losses this season, and Rio has been involved in 3 of the six losses.

Yet we have played our best football when we have had a combination of Evans Smalling and Jones at the back is no coincedence.

Great teams are built on solid foundations, look over at Barca not a team reknown for there soild defending yet it is the loss of Puyol that has effected them more than the decline of Xavi.

When one or both of Vidic or Rio play then they have to drop deeper as they haven't got the pace to play a higher line, this drags the midfield further back and creates a large gap between our midfield and forward line making it harder to push forward and create goal scoring chances.

So yes we need a new midfielder or two and yes we need to replace Evra but all of that will make little difference unless we also replace BOTH Rio and Vidic.

I don't think it's much of a shock to anyone that Rio and Vidic need to be replaced. The problem, however, is that we have already spent close to £30m on their replacements. But because they have been constantly played out of position over the last few seasons they have failed to develop into the top class centre backs they promised to be.

Smalling, for me, lacks the toughness to make it as a centre back. He's a tall lad but yesterday Ade brushed him aside like he wasn't even there for his goal. In addition he is a poor ball player and always looks awkward in possession. Jones still looks like he could be a top quality centre back, but because we are incapable of bringing in quality in midfield he will always be pushed out of his favourite position. Evans is a good player, but he is always prone to mistakes and is not a defensive leader.

In truth we do need two top quality central defenders. But that just means that we need to sign even more players. So that's: 1 lb, 2cb, back up for rb, 2 cms, and 2 wingers. But everybody was right, the Glazers haven't allowed the squad to stagnate by under investing in transfers.

But then I would point out shaps, the pressure our weak midfield and LB are putting on our defense will cause mistakes in our back line, classic example is spurs first goal, with evra caught up field it forced vida out to cover the space, this is happening near every game now and against good players we will be punished. Tbh its got to the point with Evra now that I would give fabio or buttner a bash there.
I really think its that simple, all the anti Moyes brigade will point to lack of signings and the point is very valid but tbh the man was taking over the biggest job in football, imo he should of took his time to evaluate the squad and it shouldn't have been the problem it has become. We dnt have a bottomless pit of cash we have to invest wisely and Moyes going out buying £200m of players without evaluating the team properly is not wise at all.

Having said all this I still watched a certain love child of many looking again for imo the 3rd year running like he had a good Christmas on the food and drink at a very critical period for us. Yes i'm talking about a certain number 10. No doubting his form in the 1st half of the season but since January has any1 else noticed the drop off again, because I have. dnt get me wrong he has been our best player by far so far, but I do and will continue to question his commitment to the cause.

Shappy agree with your points. Moyes doesn't seem to have faith in Jones Evans and Smalling and won't stick with one partnership. He has changed the defence far too much for my liking. The Rafael injury has been a factor as well. Valencia and Smalling are not right backs and have cost us goals.

I been thinking the same to be honest and have to agree with you mate 100 percent. When we have smalling Evans or Jones I'm CB they push up further forward to midfield which also pushes midfield higher linking the whole play up and we are a much tougher side with more fluency and we also have plenty more rhythm to our game. When vidic played against norwich cleverley became a lot deeper making him ineffective and the gap between midfield an attack becomes too big. A deep defence just invites pressure but with a high line we look more solid and if not for a buttner mistake we would not of conceded against west ham. We should sign a cb and cm and if no lb comes in give fabio a go he deserves a shot the quality is there and with games he will become composed and no reason why him and his bro can't dominate each side for years to come. Young and januzaj look our best wingers at moment as valencia can just be doubled up on and as he is not technically gifted offers nothin other than a drilled ball at a defender. Also ease zaha in more he can't learn if he don't play

{Ed004's Note - I get that Vidic has lost a lot of pace however, maybe it's my heart that's making me think we can't sell him as I love the player, if we signed a cb and a lb with pace they would be able to cover Vidics lack of it meaning we could still play a high line. Vidic is a leader and our captain but I don't know if he should be replaced just yet}

Yes I agree Ed I love him aswell but its clear how deep we are when he plays inviting pressure plus I just think the nasty injury he had aswell did not help and a lot of niggles have followed there after. We look lot more solid with evans smalling then jones as a DM as he does get from box to box quite well. We can't think anymore its not his favoured position bla bla its whatever suits us Jones to me does look good as a defensive mid. Look at Fellaini for example says his position is DM but he doesn't look like one to me and his best season was as an AM or number 10

{Ed004's Note - If somehow we had a miracle of a window and Moyes signed lb (Coentrao, Moreno, Shaw) a midfielder (Gundogan, Koke) and a lw winger (Reus, Di Maria, Sanchez, Riberio) would people feel playing a 4231 of DDG, Rafael, Smalling, Evans, LB, Jones and new mid, with Januzaj, Rooney, lW behind RVP as good enough to get top 4? So 3 signings}

Ferdy and vidic where the best cb pairing in the world, evans etc aren't so it's a step back, simple as

That would be good enough for us to get top 3 in my opinion. We would still need a lot of work in the summer though - a back up left back, a centre back and probably another versatile forward who is more of a striker because Chicharito isn't doing it for me at the moment - he doesn't have enough about his game unfortunately.

{Ed004's Note - No I like Buttner I think he is a good back up and even young Blackett coming through, I'd go for a centre back, another centre mid and a rw in the summer so lw, rw, Rooney, Kagawa, januzaj, Lingard, Valencia as option to play behind RVP. With fellaini, Carrick, Cleverley, 2 cm's competing for midfield some games we will have to play 3 in there}

02 Jan 2014 14:05:48
ED04, Optimism is Impressive, In 2, 5 months, we made it late with Fellaini. Not a chance we would get anything more than 2 players in Jan.

{Ed004's Note - That's my main worry}

Agreed shappy. I sat here yesterday with my son who is a Stret ender and as soon as I saw vidic name on the team, I was worried.
Spurs have the fastest attack in the league and moyes chose vidic?! Total personic decision.
Smalling and Evans have played very well together, so why not keep the pairing and put fabio at rb?
my son says vidic is a legend and cannot be dropped. There goes the problem, I think moyes is playing vidic based on his reputation.

Big rumours doing the rounds in all the papers today about vidal he would also be elegible in champs league is the right age and could come straight into the side. i'm not convinced it will happen but I would be happy to take that 100%

That would be some late Christmas present Damon, fingers crossed its true and Nani is part of the deal. I feel he needs a move to resurrect his career and Italy would suit him. I would like to see a LB if not to replace Evra to spur him into playing better. I don't really want to see him leave as he is a huge influence in the dressing room being able to speak several languages.

Our distribution from both centre halfs yesterday was very poor, both evans and vidic are not comfy on the ball and give a lot of possesion away by panicking when they get closed down and hoofing the ball anywhere upfield

John, I disagree mate. I think Evans especially, is very confident going forward and distributing the ball.

He showed that yesterday on several occasions, striding forward, and making smart passes, before ending up being the player in red furthest up the pitch, waiting on a return pass.

I must of been at a different game last night stevie, evans only went forward and joined the charge in the last 20 minutes when we pinned spurs in there own half.before that everytime he got the ball he would go forward a few yards and then stop and either pass sideways to vidic, pass back to de ghea or blast a hopeful long ball up the pitch and lose possesion as did vidic, he is very uncomfortable on the ball when an oppposition player comes anywhere near him

02 Jan 2014 11:35:17
hey everyone happy new year,
Now onto last nights game I know we are all sad about the result but I expect no one now expects us to still win the league to qualify for top four would be a massive bonus with the way we are playing unless we improve drastically over the cause of the season.
Of the whole of last night game the one positive thing I gained was watching januzaj play is improved so much and you'd notice all our attack came from him down the right flank going pass players like they were never there and also the one problem he seems which is a 1 vs 1 encounter seems to have improved may be that's down to the fact that he was in playing on the right wing which gave him the oppurtunirty to play on his stronger left foot, in my opinion I think is best position would be on the right wing if he continues to work on his acceleration.

02 Jan 2014 11:55:35
That Also Shows how bad a team can be who relys on an 18 year old Kid to do the Damage?

To be honest he was very poor on the left wing and gave the ball away which led to the second goal and had some very poor decisions. Granted He did improve when he went down the right but then again we had 6 to 7 offensive players and the fullbacks pushing forward and it was helper skelter stuff trying to get back in the game.

For a left footed guy I would like to see him get to the byline and put in a decent cross from the left, which he could not do yesterday even once and like all our wingers likes to come back inside. The only guys who goes to the byline is Valencia but his crossing is something of a shocker and not sure what happens as it is not that difficult to cross a bloody football.

In general I thought Adnan was poor and so was Rooney and Welbeck and his goal masked hoe poor his first touch and some of his passing was. In Rooney's defense he is not right physically. Carrick was also not fit and quite poor and cleverly looked knackered. All in all did not deserve to lose looking at the game and the stats but that is how football goes sometimes. Should have had a penalty and you never know what would be the outcome with 6 or 7 minutes to go and a 1 man advantage.

{Ed004's Note - Tbf Januzaj didn't have the pace to get to the byline vs Walker.}

Maybe we should realise that none of our strikers thrive from a strategy geared toward wingers running to the byline and whipping in a cross, and perhaps try something different? I know it's a weird idea, but I've heard that other teams sometimes play through the centre.

Ed04

I realized the same thing as walker is tough customer and really gave him nothing and took the ball off of him quite a few times and for the second goal. Dembele also did a very good Job of shutting Rooney down.

02 Jan 2014 12:47:16
Kyle walker and Aron lenon and speed machine. You have to be on your toes to keep them quiet.
Adnan is a young kid, but the only dissapointmetn, He doesn't rtrack back to help evra. and Evra is the slowest in the PL. so a goal from the Left side was always looming.

Attitude

I agree. If you watch the replays of the second goal, he kind of jogs bag then speed up and just when he has caught up with the play gives up and goes back to a Jog and gives Lenon the channel to leave Rooney for dead and make that run and the cross whilst also pulling vidic out of position.

What I don't get is where was our other CB Evans as it is his side of the box and where was Evra. The worse part of the goal is that it looked as if the break had fizzled out.

02 Jan 2014 14:10:23
Its shame we rely on an 18 year LW to score, track back and do everything. Nonsense.
Ashley young, If you look at the list of Richest English Plyaer would be right up there. what on earth is he getting a pay cheaque is beyond me.
You can't complain a kid of not tracking back. At home we should be 2-0 up before the first 45 mts.
We were pretty poor, let's be honest, We had the balls, and then?. Nothing, we simply failed to unlock the defence.
Its a clear Bet, If UTD doesn't score inside first 45 mts and then its almost certain we would loose the game.

02 Jan 2014 14:11:59
Willian and Hazzard would eat us down the flanks, I am worried, The only possitive, their strikers doesn't score.
Hazzard against Evra. dear oh dear.

To emphasise my point about changing our tactics, from Sly:

"Manchester United top the Premier League for crosses per game, swinging in an average of 26.65 of them in their 20 league games so far this season. In the New Year's Day defeat at home to Tottenham, they took the policy to new levels. A whopping 47 crosses were lobbed goalwards for Vlad Chiriches and Michael Dawson to deal with. That was a United high for the season and more than in any game they played last term. It isn't proving an efficient use of the ball in the final third.

This is precisely the area of the field where the best teams will play an intricate through-ball to find a breakthrough. Tellingly, that's exactly what the impressive Januzaj did to create Danny Welbeck's goal on Wednesday. It leads to better quality opportunities and United are eschewing plenty of them: 423 of the 533 crosses hurled in have failed to find their target (again, a Premier League high). That's 423 chances to do something better in the last third that have been wasted."

02 Jan 2014 11:00:41
Ok we are all hacked off at losing, we always are, in truth we really did not play too badly, just emphasised that some of our squad are not good enough to be regular starters. Shappy and a few others have already spoken of how few, if any, times this year our first choice players have been available. It's all adding up to a bad season ( and I expect a couple) if this is pessimism then I'm guilty as charged, though I'd prefer realistic.

SAF said in the summer we needed 2 or 3 top players, I always hoped for 3, we got none ( Fellaini is not top class). To have any chance of top 4 we need 2 or 3 now. Happy to see us linked with Vidal today and while I agree January is not the easiest time to buy top players ( which club wants to lose their best players mid season?)we have to go all out to get them. I've never been convinced of the Glazers putting up the needed money, and will be delighted to be proven wrong.

If, as reported Mata is available, we should get him ok not our weakest area but with Kagawa looking less and less likely to produce, Mata would create for us. We desperately need a Vidal type player in midfield ( and have for years)and should pay whatever is necessary to get him. Porto are looking for a big payday from Alex Sandro, Ed02 seems to think Moreno may be available and the papers seem to think we are after Luke Shaw ( can't see Shaw coming myself) any of these 3 would be a huge improvement on Evra at the moment great servant though he has been.

Ashley Young had a good first season for us, was out Injured for most of 2012/3, and even as not his biggest fan, I can see signs of him coming back to form, let's fit him with training wheels to keep him upright and keep him as a squad player.
Chico I've always been a fan but what the heck has happened to him this year? he needs a move for him and us. Kagawa has had enough chances move him on. Anderson bye bye. Fabio bye bye.
Buttner is apparently wanted elsewhere good luck to him. Zaha FFS play him. Nani has been touted to Juve for a while use him as a down payment for Vidal.

Ok that's 6 players I want out + Giggs, Rio, retiring that's a huge rebuild and bound to take time. Grit your teeth keep smiling, keep cheering our (and for other clubs posters here your own team on) team on and Happy New Year to all.

Great post, couldn't disagree with anything you said.

02 Jan 2014 11:59:09
The Moment you said you would keep young. I gave up. He is usless at its very best. he has made a joke of himself as the biggest diver around Europe. hasn't score an open goals from years.
Vidal is quality. But Juve are at the top of the leaue and looking for a treble, It would cost more than 35 mill to start the negotiations.
If we ever had brains we would ahve landed Fabrigas with that money.
Mata is quality, But why do we need him when Rooney / Kagawa would play there.

You buy 10 and leave the Midfield to Cleverly, we wil still get beaten up and down.

Grund good post mate.agree with lot's of what you say.

Agree with most grund. Though can't possibly agree on young.
No name, it would have cost £50 to get fabregas and he's worth it.
If vidal costs a fortune then so be it. We need to buy the top players and they don't come cheap.
Better than wasting over £100m on the likes of anderson nani obertan bellion tosic young fellaini etc.

02 Jan 2014 10:42:42
I the mid to late 80's when football and Manchester United became an obsession to me, Liverpool were by far and away the most successful side in football. United had a couple of recent FA Cup wins, but not much else to celebrate . s the 80's drew to an end, so did Liverpool's reign of dominance. But the thing I remember vividly about that time was the majority of my mates and peers were "scousers", at least by allegiance. I remember hating so many of them because thy were so arrogant about their team. They could never give any other teams credit, and seems blinkered to the fact that they no longer had the best team in the world. This carried on for years even through their decline.

Now I am not comparing our current situation to that of Liverpool, because I don't think we are, or will be in decline. Our current position is not good, but it is temporary I am sure. But, we as United fans need to have the good grace, and class to accept it, at least for now. Back in October I posted on here saying that we, as United fans had been spoilt over the last 20 years, and that some of us had become "football snobs". That post brought much criticism, but I stand by it now more than ever. Some of the posts on here lately are just embarrassing. We no longer have the best team in the world, or England. We don't even have the best team in Manchester. What we have is the greatest CLUB in the world. A club with great History, tradition and class. But I see a lot of comments on here belittling and disrespecting other clubs an players because they are "small", or "not United class". I now it is a banter site, but we are better than this. Spouting nonsense and making stupidly ambitious claims and predictions is pointless and makes us as United fans look silly and arrogant, muck like Liverpool fans of the early 90's.

We all know the team needs major investment. Contrary to what the equalizer says, the team does need major re-tooling, and soon. But until that happens can we not just accept the situation, get behind the team and the manager and aspire to be the best again? There is nothing wrong with not being the best all the time, as long the ambition and drive to be the best is there, and is real. We will not win the league this year, that is quite clear, but we need to make the best of what we have for now, and get in the best players available when we can. Top 4 this year is realistic, and at this stage must be seen as out target. But even that is not guaranteed. There is nothing wrong with being ambitious, but if the best players in the world are not available, we may have to look elsewhere. But don't just disregard good players because they come from so called smaller clubs. There are a lot of very talented footballers out there who would improve us. A team is only as good as the sum of its parts, and spending £50M on a world class player does not guarantee they will be successful, especially in this league.

As we go into 2014, let's get behind the team, and the manager. Remember we support the biggest club in the world, even if we don't currently have the best team. There in no shame in that, but we can aspire to be the best again. And we WILL be the best again, but like someone on here said a while back (in the words of George Harrison) its going to take time, and its going to take money.

Happy New Year all:)

Happy new year no name with the massive post

It was my post, was logged in but must have "timed out " as I was doing it in between working! lol
Thanks for still posting it Ed as I didn't realise I had been logged off.

@ betty
best post I have read on this teams site for ages. Well done sir
JFT 96

02 Jan 2014 09:24:31
So I see the writing's on the wall for Moyes once again and the supporters are revolting. I hope the likes of Sydney and God Created United are sulking this morning as the word is that SAF is already on the case to tap up his latest "chosen one". Watch out Swansea as it could be Laudrup, Pardew from Newcastle or Hughes from Stoke? One things for certain, don't even bother trying to contact Roberto Martinez.
I'm sure he wouldn't and couldn't be enticed with the offer of a cup of tea and then be expected to clean up the mess left by old whiskey nose and Gollum.

So enjoy the transfer window. It should be interesting to hear of all the big names you'll be linked with who'll knock you back. Just don't come back to Everton Mr Moyes. Leighton Baines, Ross Barkley, Seamus Coleman and James McCarthy are all UNDER contract and are NOT for sale; not that you'd be able to afford them anyway.
Look forward to the Capita Cup game next week. It should give you an expensive day to look forward to at Wembley where you'll be humbled by your closest and noisiest neighbours once again.

A bit frustrated mate? I have the number for a councillor if need be

Yeah right! Enjoy the ride, it won't take long.

How you make me laugh daveyboy .Were in a transitional season which everyone knows.Where have your taunts been for the last 20 years.Your a small club which is over achieving at the moment.Were a massive club which is underachieving at the moment.We'll be back & everybody knows it.We are & always will be a bigger club than yours so don't be jealous enjoy your 5 mins of fame.

LOL, You guys don't know when to quit. Nothing has changed and life is good and looking forward to a good weekend of golf.

Oh yes United lost a game yesterday but we have lost before with better teams against worse opposition and will lose again in the future. Come May we will see where we are.

as a side note, I am willing to do is give you any wager that you will not play CL football next year and we can nominate one of the eds to make sure both parties pay up.

What do you say?

Oh let him enjoy his season lads he won't get many of them.

Come back when you grow a pair and make sure they have dropped :)

02 Jan 2014 05:55:48
Heard that We're in for Schweinsteiger and he is interested in coming as he will not play in Spain or for another German side

I don't think he is the answer mate and getting up there now with age. I would like to see a couple of players in their early to mid twenties that can pass and have pace going forward and covering on defense. Vidal and Koke/herrera/Matic would transform us, problem is are they even available.

02 Jan 2014 08:11:28
Jesus Christ People moan we need to sign Mata.
Mata is a real talent. But why on earth is Kagawa sitting in the Bench?. Are they Both similar?
And BTW, Mata doesn't Track Back, something Moyes Needs from every player.

02 Jan 2014 07:01:56
We have had the similar centre-mid pairing for 3-4 seasons now. But we still won titles. Strootman, Pirlo(who knows?), Danny(Zenit), Matiudi, anyone would be a better addition to our squad.
Jones, Carrick, Fletcher, Cleverley, Fellaini, NEW CM, Giggs and we have a midfield to survive this season.

We hardly have a winger who could put in an accurate cross.

The likes of Valencia, Nani, Young have hardly been convincing against top teams in the past 2 years now.
Remember when Fergie play Welbeck and the 4-3-3 against Newcastle away.
Only Januzaj seems to know how to put in a decent cross.

If I were Moyes, I'd give Zaha a run at RW. Probably sign someone like Ravel Morrison, or Konoplyanka or Riberio or anyone who knows how to find a man.

If not, give Powell and Lingard a run in the team if we can't buy.

But Valencia, Nani, Young, Anderson, Evra, Ferdinand, Kagawa and probably even Hernandez.

Hernandez has been awful this season, and W. Keane or Henriquez should be ahead of him.

02 Jan 2014 00:14:36
As the saying goes: 'the bigger you are, the harder you fall'. Happy New Year.

Well thanks for your input.

And the further you bounce back again.

Happy New Year :)