Manchester United Banter Archive January 02 2018

 

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02 Jan 2018 23:16:27
What's happened to Fosu Mensah seems to have gone backwards at Palace. I know it's only highlights but he was all over the place from what I saw on MOTD. He had such promise.

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02 Jan 2018 23:29:31
He got motm against city.

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03 Jan 2018 03:16:33
He played 90mins last night.

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03 Jan 2018 12:55:15
He signed for a club with a manager who had one style of playing. It wasn't working, they sacked him an replaced him with a manager with a totally different style. Takes a bit of getting used to. He's looked ok so far. No major clangers and a MoM performance against the greatest team in history*

* yes that's sarcasm. They've a way to go yet to match Accrington Stanley 1977.

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03 Jan 2018 13:49:49
He is young and he is learning. He came through at Ajax who have a certain way of playing, he then came to us and adapted to a different way. But for both teams he was playing for a top side who are used to having the majority of the ball. At Palace now he will have to adapt to something he has never come across before, he will learn a different way of defending, the importance of when you can and when you can't take risks.
He will learn more this season than he probably has in the last three years combined. He should come back a much better player for it. If not the he will have shown himself to be a good EPL defender with potential who we could move on for a significantly more than he has cost us.

To be honest from what I've seen from TFM and Tuanzebe I am of the opinion that Tuanzebe will develop into the better player. If Tuanzebe isn't going to get a decent amount of playing time next season then I would loan him out and replace him with TFM and see if he can force his way into the side, if not then hopefully Tuanzebe will come back a better more accomplished player to challenge the year after.

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02 Jan 2018 20:43:27
Hi Ed's, lot of praise floating around for Sergej Milinković-Savić atm and talk that he would be ideal for man utd.
Do you think there is a possibility of a bid in January and if so would Lazio consider selling him now?

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{Ed002's Note - I cannot answer questions about timing of bids and transfers.}

02 Jan 2018 19:29:33
Good result yesterday and a good 2nd half performace in particular.
As expected and what many of us have called for a 3 man midfield brought out the best in pogba. When he has the freedom to run ahead of the ball he looks a diffetent player much more like the pogba we saw at juve.

If fellaini leaves in Jan we will need another midfielder to come into the squad as we only have those 3 plus fellaini and mctominay.

My hope is that come helll or high water that jose sticks to this shape for 90% of our games and says this is us this is the way we play and we're coming to beat you. You will have to adapt to our style and shape.
Our own players will know and be more comfortable I believe.
Then it will expose those players who are not up to it or don't fit in or just don't want to be a part of it.
That's exactly what pep did last season. He knew his players were not good enough to play as he wanted them to but he told them all this is the way we are going to play so either make a positive contribution or ill sell you. So he dumped his keeper 4 full backs a few squad fillers like nasari and fernando and a couple of wingers after they proved they can't do it.

Jose on the other hand imo has been putting results 1st and trying to adapt and find a way to win with this squad on a game by game basis. He doesn't trust enogh of his players to play his preferred way or that's how it appears to me.

I think shaw has done well when he has been asked. Not great but solid and improving with more games, but will it be enough to earn his trust is anyone's guess it may be too late.

Believable7 Unbelievable1

02 Jan 2018 20:10:40
Good post Ken, I would also like to see a bit more decisiveness from the manager. If the fans and players can see a direction then both key parts will fully back it, at the minute it's a hodge-podge and appears very messy.

The key word we need to see from the players and the manager is "Commitment", to the club, the fans, an ideology, a system etc. Everything has a very temporary feel and that has to be changed by the manager, he needs to fully commit and everything will follow I believe - until then it's hard for people like me to fully back him because I give to receive like most people.

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02 Jan 2018 21:07:09
We looked good with 3 at the back a month ago where did that go.
Pogba done well second half, first half?
Great 45 minutes from the lad tho showed his potential.

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02 Jan 2018 20:46:49
Our squad isn't as good as some people make out. We're like a ship that's taking on water, we have to prioritise what we need to fix first because we don't have an unlimited bank account.

Full backs are a big issue. I like Young and Valencia but for cover only. We need to improve these areas and we'll have a very good defense in the making.

We need another top quality midfielder I think that's an obvious one. Savic is been mentioned. Iv never seen him play but from the list of clubs that are interested He must be a serious baller. From what Ed002 has said the price for him would be enormous. I'm guessing £100 million plus. And here lies the problem. This squad has to be improved over the next few windows because we won't be able to bring in two fullbacks, one central midfielder, a right sided winger and maybe a striker with the prices being banded about.

In 2017 Rashford was our top goal scorer with 16 goals. That's not good enough. We've too many players putting in consistent 6/ 10 performances. The manager and the players need to improve if we want to compete but I think we'll have to be a little bit more patient while Jose overhauls the squad. If he's giving the money, history proves he will win. If he's not giving the money, he will walk and we're back to square one again.

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02 Jan 2018 21:26:44
I thought pogba was the only one capable in the first half, only one who really managed to get in their box. Maybe I was watching a different game. 3 at the back worked, good to have options.

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02 Jan 2018 21:34:02
Meant to say great post Ken. It's obvious Jose doesn't entirely trust what he has at his disposal.

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02 Jan 2018 21:35:50
Beast I understand your point of view.
I think when played right pogba is a match winner. He is the best player in our squad. To get the best from him we need to play 3 in midfield.
That allows matic to play behind 2 midfielders. At the moment the choice is herrera fellaini or mctominay to be the 3rd. Herrera did it well yesterday and to be fair fellaini did it well in the first 8 games.
The front 3 then becomes the issue as we have no natural winger. Too many players that want to play centre forward lukaku rash martial and ibra all really wanting 1 spot. Mata and miki want to play the traditional 10 but that system doesn't need one.
Jessie and mata can olay the wide role and they rove about and are busy. But neither put many crosses in which nullifies lukaku and or ibra. Our full backs have not been getting crosses in either.
So I understand why jose is compromising the squad is totally unbalanced and trying to find solutions on the hoof.

As i said my preferred option would be to set his stall out and play his system and take the hits when they come when he has to field too many of the ' misfits' too often. While i think we would be better to watch at times I think we would be a lot worse off in terms of league position at tbis stage of the season.

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02 Jan 2018 21:47:14
The squad is good, to me it just lacks the final bit of world class, if we intend to go 433 if we stick two names more of proven class in things begin to look strong, in that system kroos for midfield and a fit bale right side attack and u then think now we really are in business but add your own names as each to there own, my point was 2 quality signings and things look good . Maybe that could be said to most teams in the top six . I'm not trying to brush over other areas will need addressing I'm just trying to say a couple of class players and it can look so much stronger . The last few year we have got a fair few signings wrong I hope we get the next few right as the leap to being much better could be breachable imo.

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02 Jan 2018 21:57:08
Cheers angel.
Couldn't agree more mumbles. It's taking longer than I would ideally like but there are between 7 / 10 players in the squad that are either coasting ir making little or no contribution I would like to see them all sold and 5 players signed tuanzabe Perriera mctominay promoted.
The players must be the fight fit the name and price is irrelevant. Back jose and he will get it right if the club commit to him and him to the club he will win and he will produce a team we all are proud of imo.

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02 Jan 2018 22:21:06
Your right jred we had a couple if games where we looked good with 3 at the back. It's a system that imo can get the most out of our existing squad. For a few teams we are top heavy with centre backs rojo smalling bailly blind Jones lindelof.
We don't have 2 high quality full backs but 2 or 3 that suit wing backs.
We can still play 3 in the middle getting best out of pogba and matic and we can play 2 up front where we currently have 4 looking for 1 spot in rash lukaku martial and ibra.
Also with 3 at the back the 3rd midfielder can also be a free runner like pogba so it suits not only herrera but also jessie or mata.

But again I think when we played that it was a case of jose experimenting to see ehat fits best with the players he has. It's not a system he has played too often throughout his career.

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03 Jan 2018 02:02:26
Much of the game it just looked like same old 4231 to me, with Pogba wide left, Jesse centre and Mata right.

What looked good was lots of movement from all the players, Martial was roaming too far away from C. F. and and all players seem reluctant to commit to attacking the 6 year box when the ball is wide, but a big improvement on what we have been seeing.

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03 Jan 2018 07:11:04
Good post Ken and I also agree with the other posters. As I've said before, we're the only team in the top 6 who go into matches with 2 in midfield. It is madness and mourinho has to recognise that it simply does not work.
I'm in agreement with jred that 3 at the back can afford us an extra midfielder, which will be very important playing against the top teams. But our midfield is low on numbers and apart from pogba and matic and possibly hererra, is low on quality. We definitely need one if not two midfielders.
In addition, the key is Lingard who seems to have found an extra gear and is contributing with goals and assists. When played alongside martial Or Rashford and pogba our team looks completely different. My worry is that as soon as lukaku is fit, then mourinho will revert to type.
But I completely agree with Ken that we must stay at 433 and establish an identity and set out to beat the opposition.

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03 Jan 2018 11:10:46
My take on this is that any of the formations are ok but the way we play from the back is causing a lot of the problems. I'm going to say something controversial here but I think DDG is a great shot stopper but sits too deep. On many occasions he doesn't even come off of his line for 60/ 40 balls. This means the defence also sits too deep which invites more pressure.
Also it seems that we very rarely play out from the back, preferring to hoof it clear, even when there is not much pressure, which largely results in the ball coming straight back at us.
If we play further up the pitch, with more composure, we can transition more quickly from defence into attack and cause the opposition problems - This is what happened in the second half against Everton.

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02 Jan 2018 10:40:03
I was disappointed with the first half as we were one placed and lacked movement but what a change in the second half. Shaw looks class, Pogba showed what he can be, Mata was excellent, and great movement from Martial and Jesse.

My question is why the dramatic change? I keep saying we have a good team that is not playing to its potential and last night showed it within the one game. Very interested to see the selection and formation for the next League game.

Believable4 Unbelievable0

02 Jan 2018 11:52:01
Did Jose have a Stella half time team talk? He was out early and the commentators were saying he looked miserable and frustrated and that this would surely project onto the team.

What ever he did he should do it again every match!

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02 Jan 2018 12:55:58
What they lacked in the 1st half was quality. They seemed to be working hard and trying things but concentration and quality was lacking in the final 3rd. It was a total 180 in the 2nd half.

I think that you will see matic and Herrera in CM with pogba roaming in the next game. Pogba was interviewed by NBC sports after the game and was quoted as saying how much he preferred that.

Martial will get the nod as CF for the foreseeable and to be honest that is a good thing because that is his best position IMO. If he capitalizes while others are out then he gives Jose a real headache. Lingard is a definite and the other position will be contested by Mata and Rashford. I think last night's starting 11 has a real chance now.

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02 Jan 2018 16:36:54
Maybe Jose listened to Schlose after all lol.

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02 Jan 2018 18:04:01
Scholes, along with every man and his dog except José, says Pogba is playing out of position. José plays him in right position for a change, and Pogba gives a very good performance. Am I missing something here?

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02 Jan 2018 18:46:36
No Stevie, Jose hasn't a clue lol 😂 only messing.

Maybe He was hoping he could turn in the performances at centre midfield, or maybe he didn't fancy Herrera for whatever reason. Unfortunately it's not his best position though and Jose then played him where he plays best.

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02 Jan 2018 21:03:36
Or maybe the manager thought that a guy who is meant to be one of the best players in his generation could play in a very slightly different position than the one he favours .

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02 Jan 2018 21:44:30
Deano, it's more than a slight positional change. Pogba playing further forward boosts the whole impetus of our play.

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03 Jan 2018 07:15:28
Deano, why would you buy a player for £89m who had established himself as a left sided attacking midfielder and then try to play him central midfield in a two man midfield. It's bonkers and it hasn't worked. But I can guarantee mourinho will revert back to this when lukaku is fit.

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02 Jan 2018 09:41:40
Pogba showed in glimpse during the second half what a good player he can be a what a difference a top class player can make . Think KDB doing it week in week out at city .

Jesse was again quality and has been for a while now . A great example of one of our players playing at the top off his game .
When people talk about our squad being poor remember how many post there has been about Jesse " just not being good enough"

Believable4 Unbelievable5

02 Jan 2018 10:25:51
Same with all players JRED at any club. consistency.

Nani, Berba, Kagawa, Welbeck, Anderson, Miki . all great / v good for periods. in Nanis case even 2 consecutive seasons but couldn't maintain it.

Pedro, Willian, Ozil, the same.

Jesse is playing very well at present, high on confidence. long may it continue, if it does then he deserves to be a starter.

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02 Jan 2018 11:52:53
KdB has played twice as many minutes as PP but has how many more assists?

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02 Jan 2018 13:56:18
@mort are you actually trying to say pogba has been close to kdb standards this season? Stats can be misleading, take of the red glasses and realise at this moment kdb is by far the superior player.

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02 Jan 2018 14:25:54
Pogba is just as influential as KDB.

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02 Jan 2018 15:41:39
Agree angel.

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02 Jan 2018 16:02:02
Just saying that the stats font show much difference. Pogba has been as influential to us as he has been to them. Take him out of the city side how good as they.

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02 Jan 2018 16:31:21
Pogba is nowhere near as influential as Pogba, ones known more for his dance moves and Dodgy haircuts the other is known for being one of the best creative players on the planet right now. Pogba can become a good player for you but the two fellas are on different planets right now, nobody in the right mind would chose Pogba over KDB.

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02 Jan 2018 17:13:08
Scouser proves my point. One has almost as many assists despite half as much playing time.

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02 Jan 2018 17:22:32
Pogba 2 assist yesterday put him along side kdb on 9 .
Pogba played great in the second half better than he has all season .
KDB has been playing like that all season.

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02 Jan 2018 17:39:36
He's been playing like that all season but only has the same amount of assists as someone who's been injured and suspended. So maybe Pogba isn't as bad as some make out.

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02 Jan 2018 18:47:31
Why DOESN'T KDB asssist and score more then jerd?

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02 Jan 2018 18:48:02
Alright johnbarnes whatever you say 😂😂.

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02 Jan 2018 18:52:18
Also KDB got more assistance in a more attacking/ freescoring team.

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02 Jan 2018 21:05:01
A very good question mort that none of the above have actually answered.

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02 Jan 2018 21:12:19
Assists?
Look at pogba assist yesterday, a 5 yard pass to martial who scores a great individual goal.
A 5 yard pass to Jesse who beat 2 men and scored from 20 yard .
Pogba done 20 things yesterday better than his 2 "Assists"
What a strange way to judge a player.

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02 Jan 2018 21:28:18
Very strange to judge a player by the amount of goals he creates and scores. Very odd 😂.

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02 Jan 2018 21:48:19
Listen kdb is surrounded by great movement players on top of thwir game with in the main many years of experience and playing in a system that suits him. Hugely talented and his set piece delivery is along with erickson is the best in the league his shoting and passing range is matched by superb vision imo.
Pogba is imo equally talented but playing with players ahead of him that are younger have less know how and ecperience than him yet he is only 24. He is playing in a system that doesn't suit him ideally and not being played to his strengths often enough. Yet he still is a major influence on most of our positive play.
Get him the right partner to play alongside him ahead of matic and get a proper support from full backs and in wide areas and he will thrive. He needs to be given the platform to showcase his abilities.

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02 Jan 2018 22:19:28
I’d argue Pogba’s pass to Martial was a little bit better than a “5 yard pass”. Great vision and execution with the outside off the boot.

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02 Jan 2018 23:42:52
An assist is the pass before the goal kdb and Silva start a lot of the moves that leads to the goals not getting an assist out of it.

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03 Jan 2018 13:20:22
Yeah deano crazy way to judge a player ha ha. Of ciur5se its not the only criteria but it's very relevant.
How do you judge a manager a key criteria is on what he has won. Same as a player. Same way you judge a striker on the goals he scored keeper on clean sheets playmaker on creating chances. Of course it's not the only criteria take Kane for example he is playing great but has never won anything but still a really good player. If he goes his whole career without winning anything i'm not sure he would be considered a ' great ' and rightly so imo.

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03 Jan 2018 19:43:05
I don't get it ken the constant love of our so called rivals players but not actually realising we have great players of our own.
De bruyne has been great this season he is city's most important player imo in the same way that pogba has been ours.

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02 Jan 2018 04:18:29
Did anyone hear the Jose post match with Shreeves? Was that Jose giving a subtle kick up someones ass? He praised Jesse no ends but he did say that you can have all the talent when you are young but if you don't jump to the next level, you are just a normal player and nothing special. Was that a warning to my favorite dislike?

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02 Jan 2018 08:15:23
No I think he was talking about Zlatan 😂😂.

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02 Jan 2018 09:26:02
Well that's great then. For a moment there i was scared on what he was saying. I mean afterall "the talent" is the next best thing after sliced bread.

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02 Jan 2018 11:55:15
I assume once again your kicking Rashford. Yes he's had a dip in form. He's also 20. All young players form dips.

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02 Jan 2018 13:20:01
Yeah Mort, that is my favorite pastime. 😁😁. Hoping that this dip is temporary because you heard Jose. Also his demeanour has been miserable, worse than what Martial's looks. 20 or 50 doesn't matter. Football is now cut throat competition and time isn't given to people who don't deliver. A loan won't harm "the talent"

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02 Jan 2018 19:09:13
Top fan u eh Shan? Giving a 20yr old lad who plays for his hometown club that he's progressed through the ranks a hard time. He single handedly dragged us through the lvg season and he's now experiencing a dip in form n boom u turn on him. You'd rather we sell him n buy rashfordinhio? What a melt.

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03 Jan 2018 04:19:12
Dip in form? Remember you said the same when we was 18, then the same when he was 19 and again when he is 20. The best season he had was when he was 18. So you see he is going backwards. I thought career progression was forwards. He is British and like all British players, he is over rated and add he is local so you guys give him a free pass. How many good games he has played over the past 2 years? I am not scared to say it and i am not a fan of the lad. I do hope he grows into what you guys expect him to be. Unfortunately i see him as a Welbeck.

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03 Jan 2018 12:30:09
Yeah, that Danny Wellbeck. He's had a rubbish career, hasn't he? Playing for Utd, Arsenal and England and all that.

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03 Jan 2018 12:58:32
So Stevie you agree then. Great.

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02 Jan 2018 02:17:33
Great to see Shaw playing very well at the moment. Hopefully he is winning José over? Fingers crossed he's not on the outgoing list any more. Talent is there, he's looking fit, I thought he was in the shop window initially, but now he looks well ahead of Blind and darmian (who I think is definitely off with the fact lindelof was at RB) . Fingers crossed Shaw takes this chance and kicks on.
Caolán.

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02 Jan 2018 09:25:06
Shaw is looking good just needs games.

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02 Jan 2018 11:57:22
Is it too little too late or has he actually fought his way back.

If the latter then it does save us 30-50 million in the summer that can be better spent elsewhere.

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02 Jan 2018 12:43:33
He needs more games but it looks as though the Jose treatment has worked again.

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02 Jan 2018 16:51:06
I agree Angel, Mourinho had previously said Shaw needs a run of games to get fit, but he couldn’t see it happening. I honestly think it says a lot when we aren’t seeing Blind or Darmian currently playing at left back, as they were definitely ahead of him at the start of the season.

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02 Jan 2018 16:43:23
Jose has said previously Shaw is the future at left back, he had a big injury and is now looking like his mental side is right not rocket science we need a cm a winger and maybe a 10 defence is not an issue for me.

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