Manchester United Banter Archive August 30 2014

30 Aug 2014 22:10:27
I think the signing of Blind might signify two things: the manager will stick with the 3 at the back system, and will use him as a ball playing CB; or he will use his him as an anchor in his more preferred 433 system. Either way, I think he has an excellent passing range and will allow us to link the play between defence and midfield more smoothly.

If we don't make any more signings, I would assume that the manager means to play Blind in a midfield three, which might actually be a good thing in the long run, assuming Rojo sorts his work permit issues out.

The passing from defence to midfield has been awful

30 Aug 2014 22:15:39
Here, at least we're getting all the easy teams to start with. I shudder to think what Chelsea or City would have done to us at this stage of the plan.

We need to have reached stage 2 of the philophacy before we face the big teams.

I hope stage 2 involves 4 at the back

I'm curious Will, how many stages are there? Is there a periodization of stage management of the philosophy with regards to opponents ratings and when we play against them? Or have you just made a comment up from knowhere :)

I think it was pretty clear looking at the 352 yesterday and the players we have/want signed what LvG wants to do. Balague was correct about LvG wanting Di Maria to play LM in a 352. Now it's about wanting Rojo, Shaw, (Hummels), Herrera, (Vidal or WC) and (Cuadrado) to come in and fill the gaps. Of course that will happen over three windows. Personally I am not a fan of the 352, but LvG doesn't seem to want to let it go.

It was a joke Man.
Will get my goat.

30 Aug 2014 20:49:52
Having just watched Everton v Chelsea, and comparing both those teams to United, it makes one realize just how boringly bad we are at the moment. The only bright spot for me today was di Maria who actually created 2 chances. He did make some bad passes and he clearly tired, but when he did get the ball he passed and moved with an intention to get forward. That was promising.

People keep on saying how with Rooney and RVP up top we have the two best forwards. I just don't see it. I wish we could/would sell one of them and keep Welbeck who I think could actually become a better striker if he played consistently. At least he has some speed. I'm not saying he's as good as Sturridge who blossomed once he got out from being a second string at City and Chelsea, but some players need a chance. (Talking of chances both Mame Biram Diouf and Zaha had pretty good games today and scored).

I have argued before that I think RVP was a bad purchase because it deflected from the main issues. In any event it made no sense unless Rooney was going. If that was SAF's intent then Moyes put an end to it. So now we seem to have two stars who just don't care for each other. I watched the two of them teaming up pre-match for a limbering exercise and admittedly it was a short camera moment but there was absolutely no acknowledgment of the other in their faces.

Since it seems to me like they're not simpatico I don't see the point in designing a system around the concept that they and Mata both have to play every match.

30 Aug 2014 22:07:14
I know what you're getting at, peashooter, when you say RVP was a bad purchase, but the simple fact is, without him, we wouldn't have won the title.

Short termism? Probably. But would you have given up no.20?

As edd001 said there are very few strikers better around than sturridge. I pity his England career playing with rooney

RVP is not match fit at the moment

That depends on whether the club had instead begun to address the replacement of an aging squad and a non-existent midfield with top young talent. Had we been able to see a positive progression rather than a failure to address the glaringly obvious shortcomings and a probable slide into obsolescence and mediocrity, I would have been okay with not winning #20. The way things are looking #21 could be a distant dream.

Short termism it was.

Rooney has done it for more than 1 season big al.

30 Aug 2014 20:32:31
Vidal played the full 90 minutes today and looked pretty good considering. Guessing injury concerns have nothing to do with our decision to move our interest elsewhere.

Its not our decision to move elsewhere redseven, if they won't sell we have no choice.

It's always pennies R7 mate.

30 Aug 2014 20:20:30
What the De Gea happened today!? We can beat Valencia but we finish Evans with burnley. The experianced lads looked Young today, hoofing the ball and we can't even fletch it. What was the mata with our attack? We will roo needless passes which get us no where. Robin the ball of the opposition but still can't score. That Van upfront walking around with a persie under his arm! Let's see some movement! We need to take a really look in Di Maria if we want to finish top 4. Blind choices won't help, neither will a pack of rojos.

Il get my coat.

30 Aug 2014 19:58:01
Hello long time reader, first post. I think we need to stand by our team, we know we are not performing the way we want our team to play. The games this season have already shown That the players and manager are still learning about systems/tactics and about the league we play in. LVG has been in charge for a month(ish)and has already identified who is going to make improve and who needs to be moved on. This is a massive step in the right direction even if it means a the results taking a dip and performances suffering. We just have sit tight and hold on, we could be in for a bumpy ride, we will come back and at the moment when everyone writes us off that's when we become stronger. As my dad says " we lost a team once son" and we came back. Be patient and BELIEVE

Busby

I would love to know what those criticising LvG want to do, sack him? After one month we have a leader with a CV that says he will be able to undertake the major overhaul our club needs, with a task made more difficult by the last incumbent.

This change is what should have happened 12 months ago, a realignment with a change in personnel and direction. People seem to want us suddenly to be playing fantastic expansive football without putting the building blocks in. There are some who still believe that the last incumbent could have done the same.

The international break gives some time for settling the club down and get some fit. We may have a bumpy journey but if we jettison the direction now we would head down a slippery slope fast. LvG wasn't my first choice but he is making big tough decisions which is better than making no decisions. He deserves time

REdman

No one is saying sack him, but I hate the formation and think it will get slaughtered by the likes Mourinho, Pellegrini and Wenger.

I am not seeing what it is he wants to do, maybe when we get everyone back it will be different but on current form it needs a miracle.

To be honest mate Wenger wouldn't outsmart a blind dog

Good e-mal Red man.
It was never going to be a straight forward ride & I have to agree that he is at least showing the guts to move the club forward by moving players on that need to go. Look at the difference to last season with Moyes saying "we're striving to be like City" or "Liverpool are favourites" compared to LVG saying "first we need to get into the champions league, then we need to win the league & then win the champions league". Okay he's not saying we will definitely do this, but at least it's positive. United will be a totally different team after the international break & with players hopefully back from injury we will see more of the side he really wants to put out & the results will come. Have faith

I have to admit that I'm a bit concerned about the formation. His argument is that we don't have the players to play 4-3-3. However, when you're playing two average wingers at wing back, and a young lad with no experience at cb purely to accommodate the 3-5-2, then I'm not convinced it isn't the other way round.

The problem is the same one we've had for the last three seasons: we are trying to accommodate both Rooney and RVP to the detriment to the rest of the team. Most of Europe's best sides have moved to one central striker so they have an extra body in the middle, and genuine width on the flanks. But we're still arseing around trying to keep two strikers happy. Van Gaal will have to take a big reach down his pants and find his balls so that we can either move (to the wing or midfield) or drop one of our strikers because I'm struggling to see us winning titles with this formation.

30 Aug 2014 22:10:40
Nobody's saying sack him, Red Man.

Only a fool would want any manager of our club sacked so soon.

30 Aug 2014 23:15:24
Danny, has that formation ever been successful in England? I know Hoddle used it with the national team, but I can't think off the top of my head, anybody who used successfully on a consistent basis.

It seems to work quite well for Jose.

StevieK

Get your little Moyes jibe in, only a fool would want our manager sacked so soon. Moyes should never have been appointed, but many of us tried to then give him a chance, then he made a right mess by dithering in the transfer market, buying Fellsini, disgraceful comments, demotivated the team, dithered. There are things that haven't been in the press as well but you can't cope with being wrong about him. Thank heaven he got sacked and you need to move on instead of trying to show he shouldn't have been and that all those who could see he was the wrong one were terrible for wanting rid. Get over it.
LvG is doing what a real leader would have done 12 months ago which is why he should be there and why Moyes shouldn't. The same crew who were against Moyes are firmly behind LvG because we can see he is setting his stall out and we have to give him time given his profile.

30 Aug 2014 19:08:10
Anderson actually looked good when he came, with some movement and quick passing. Valencia's time should be up at Man Utd. He has been awful. Having to play RVP, Rooney and Mata together is the cause of the slow attacking front, very slow. One should be sacrificed to bring Januzaj and Di Maria from the sides with Blind and Herrera patrolling the midfield. This might give some speed and slick 1-2 plays in the attack. We look so passive now. Not one player at the front can make a run to make a space for the other. This can't carry on surely. And, we definitely need to go 4-3-3 this way. EPL is going to destroy a back three, when our players are not suiting it. Evans needs to go. I just feel glad after injuries heal up and new signings show, we will have a good team to put up. Its upto LVG to adapt to the EPL.

I think shappy has done a really good diamond formation style team on the formation page. With another good cb and a dm I think that would be perfect for us. Hopefully we can get all our new signings playing together soon. When fully fit, we've actually got a really strong team

Sigh! evens the new tom cleverly after 3 games! even tho he is in a new set up/formation with new players and a new manager, fickle a lot of fans have become these days : (

'Evans has to go'
He has played 2 games in a new system after been out injured. Give him a chance. He usually starts to consistently play well after a run of games in the side, and I think a back 3 could suit him. Players will come back, new signings to come in, and players will start to get used to the system. We will improve of that there is no doubt.

Anderson if fit cold be a great midfielder pace power passing Cleverly on the other hand with Fellani can go Carrick coming back with Herrera Blind and Vidal hopefully Di Maria to fill in that's more than enough midfield options

I would love for Evans to make the grade. He has been brilliant defensively in the past seasons when Rio and Jones were all messing around. If its just the form then he could be in the same bracket as Rooney and Mata, form-wise. But, it just goes to show how vulnerable is a position for a defender that makes him noticeable. He has not been up to mark. Smalling is even worse. I wish they were United standard.

Will

Evans is a tough one, patently a United squad player but I recall saying a few times over several years there is a mistake waiting to happen in him. Getting a few games under his belt is one thing but concentration not to give straight passes to opposition in our own area is another. What we saw on Tuesday wasn't rusty it was sloppy and a lack of concentration, it wasn't a one off but he has shown this before. Squad player yes, I wouldn't sell him but he would not be first choice.

30 Aug 2014 18:03:57
What's happened to Valencia. He hasn't got a good cross in him any more. His first couple of seasons with us his crossing was good. Try something different. One touch then blast it at the 1st man. So frustrating.

30 Aug 2014 16:55:45
Every one are blaming our 3-5-2 system. We are blaming the tactics. All I have to say is we should BELIEVE in LvG. I am pretty sure one day we will all praise the same formation and the same tacti s of the very same manager.
But what worries me is that we had a bunch of world class players in ADM, Wazza, RvP, Mata still we can't really break Burnley defense.
UNITED WE STAND IN LvG WE BELIEVE

I think build up play at the back and nerves in defence is the case as RedMan says.

LVG said so too in an interview last week after the Sunderland game. He thought the draw was down to a failure of build up in defense and mid.

We have to start to realise we are now playing Barcelona type formations, which, like LVG's formations, have their roots in Dutch "Total Football" from the 70's. Johan Cruff laid down Barcelona's blueprint in the early 90's, and it has continued to this day. Its one of the reasons they promote youth team coaches to managers, and it was the reason they went back to Holland in 96 to get Cruff's successor, tactically speaking, in LVG.

Barcelona are always keen on passing defenders and passing defensive midfielders. Pique's, Mascherano's, - his conversion from defensive mid to centre back, Sergio Busquets. Who competed with us on the surprising signature of Thomas Vermalen? - Barcelona.

There is an emphasis on retaining the ball at the back with these Total Football "hybrid" formations. It allows 3 man defense's, - in some cases 2 man defense's, to have a measure of protection. "You cannot be exploited, if in possession, " - is the idea. We saw a tribute to that in Guardiola's day. LVG is one of the pioneers of this style in modern football, and its no surprise our system is undergoing a radical change. I think it will spell the end for players like Evans, and even Smalling looking at it now. You can see also that Rojo is perhaps a better signing than we imagined, as perhaps is Blind as for defensive midfield/ wing back.

With the window nearing an end, hopefully we will get the players to make the system work. Over time, things will begin to fall into place, its not as if LVG hasn't done all this before. I think LVG should definately be given 1 1/2 years regardless of results. If we turn into the what Barcelona were 2009-12, who would complain?

The tactics are proven to work, its a personnel problem imo. Hate to say it but Tony V has been found out, just does the same thing every time its just to easy for the opposition defence :(

I said etlier today that I was excited and optimistic about this year but can't blindly believe in something that no one can explain the merits off or even argue that it is tactically superior.

Most people would never question the likes of Wenger, Mourinho, Ancelloti and 4231 or 433 seems to be the system deployed by almost all top coaches.

Surely he must see that we don't have the personnel based on his own admissions to play this system so why then play it and gift points like we are doing. We are yet to play a top 8 team and that is very worrying.

He is lucky we have 145 million of players yet to play for us and might save face but on current indications very unconvinced by the entire thing. I say this without hesitation, DM worst game last year with lesser personnel was better than this.

I am concerned even with the incoming players we might be in for a very rough time if he insists on playing this system.

That will not go down well with the board, the fans or the owners after having spent 145 million and counting.

A few more performances like this at home and I expect the fan base to give hims a hostile reception and the media will have a field day with him and it all leads to a vicious circle of pressure on players and the management and a repeat of last year.

I hate the barca way is so boring I am more a Madrid person like the speed and attack

30 Aug 2014 15:15:42
Can anybody say that they have enjoyed watching us play in the opening four games? Does anybody actually think that we have the players to make 3-5-2 work other than LVG?

We're in desperate need of a ball playing CB and a defensive midfield player who can make the link between midfield and defense. LVG mentioned before today's game that Burnley were a long ball team and yet at the moment we are playing as though we have Peter Crouch and Andy Carrol up front. Every time our defense picked up the ball they either passed it among themselves or hoofed it up the pitch. One would think that with players like Mata and Di Maria playing in our midfield we would be under instructions to keep the ball on the ground - but just like with Holland at the World Cup - the plan seems to be hit and hope.

Playing with wing-backs just is not working for us. Neither Young nor Valencia are good enough defensively to the point where we are effectively playing with three defenders rather than five. Neither seems to have the ability/confidence to beat their man offensively either meaning we are playing with very little width. I think that once Rafael and Shaw come back we will be a lot more solid at the back; but do either of them have the ability to cause real problems offensively? I don't think so.

I don't understand why we are not playing 4-3-3. We've just signed one of the best wingers in the world for an insane fee and yet seem to want to play him out of position in midfield (I know he played there for RM last season - but that was only to accommodate Bale and Ronaldo). One of Di Maria's biggest assets is his pace and he demonstrated that by creating our best chance of the game on the one occasion that he went out wide. He looked good at times today but showed that he lacks the physique to play in a deep position.

Sticking with LVG's philosophy; when was the last time a club had 11 injuries after just three league games? I'm not sure I ever recall us having 11 injuries at any point in a season. Generally speaking I do not care how he trains the players (that's his business) - but when players are dropping like flies one has to wonder whether the training regime is at least partly responsible. He was very quick to point out to the press yesterday that we had ten injuries to contend with - but when his draconian training regime may be the cause of the majority of those injuries - I'm not so sure the excuse holds as much clout.

Once again today we found ourselves struggling to create chances (the best two of the game fell to Burnley as far as I'm concerned). Given that we had four world class attacking players on the pitch - that's a big worry. A lot of that is down to our inability to get the ball out of defense and a lack of width in our play; but there also seems to be a huge issue with confidence. Moyes took a lot of flack last season for his inability to motivate the players and I don't see why LVG should be immune to similar criticism. It says a lot that the two players he brought on to change the game were players he has told do not have a future at the club. A great motivator to come on and win us the game if ever there was one, right?

So far we've played four competitive games that we should have won comfortably - and yet we've only managed two points. We've also broken another four longstanding records in the process (Burnley's first Premier League clean sheet in five years / 26 games being the latest). I appreciate that we have injuries and that the players are adapting to a new system - but that is no excuse for how badly we have played. For my whole life I have spent the build up to games looking forward to watching Manchester United play. Right now I find myself worrying.

Confidence seems to be a massive problem.

The football is ugly at the moment. I just hope his ego does not blind him as these are precious points we are dropping against nothing teams and this league is tough enough.

I think 4 at the back is a necessity and his 352 is a terrible formation for this group of players.

Interesting 48 hours ahead of us.

30 Aug 2014 15:04:47
The worry is how little we're creating. Mata, ADM, Rooney and rvp and very little chances. As I said earlier, I think our attackers will struggle this year. They are both very static with very few runs being made across and behind the defenders.
Beast is going to have a feast on this, and to be honest on today's showing, who can blame him?
But we have to remember it is early days and we have lots of injuries.
I still think vlaar would be an excellent addition as Evans is not up to standard. We also desperately need an imposing midfielder, step in Mr. Vidal.

I agree with most of your post, but with Rojo, Shaw, Blind and Herrera to come in we will be more secured at the back and will have more license to bomb forward and take few risks along the way.

like you said players have to get used to new formation but players will have in back of the mind not to lose the game so today was always going to be about making sure we don't lose the game.

I think next game we will win and will score a handful but I can definitely see players are getting used to each other and some look like they are really trying.

When we broke from the back the ball was played out to Valencia or Young who sprinted to the halway line, stopped, and played the ball back. Then it went side to side and when it was next played forward, the whole of the Burnley team were behind the ball. RVP and Rooney had no space or time to do anything with the ball if it ever reached them. Our main problem is how slow we moved the ball forward, just like the last 3 or 4 seasons.

Excellent post, Singh, full of common sense.

When the defence is more settled and we have our first choice CM back, I am sure overall game will improve.

From a defensive standpoint, Burnley rarely troubled us.

30 Aug 2014 15:02:30
What has happened to Rooney? The guy is playing awful. He can't control the ball; he is being bullied off it constantly.

Plus point for me was Di Maria. He always looked like he was going to do something.

I just hope we can get a few more in, especially in the CM area, where we look so thin.

30 Aug 2014 15:12:25
Do you not think rooney is struggling as he has no space - Mata in the hole, RvP in the six yard box. Rooney is not quick enough with his mind or feet to receive the ball in such a tight place.

Yes, he is struggling in the system.

30 Aug 2014 14:57:56
Thoughts on the game.

Formation doesn't work or suit the team or even the Premier League. When the CBs have the ball opposing team's forwards drop back and there are no passes on. The wing backs struggle to offer the width as they are too deep to receive the ball in a effective position and have no option on the overlap.

Also the formation should be changed depending on the opposition Burnley away doesn't need 5 at the back but perhaps Liverpool away 532 would work?

Evans really seems to be struggling, Jones was ok and Blackett whilst caught out of position a couple of times brought the ball out well, tried to spread the play and looked calm and assured. Best of the three.

I though di Maria looked good, Mata was missing and when he did turn up he was slow, killed tempo and failed to track back. Mata looked better when he was deeper and I wonder whether he should be played deeper to give Rooney some space? Like Scholes used to.

RVP and Rooney lacked any service but I am concerned that Rooney seems undropable now with the captaincy and is with Mata slowing our attacks.

I think Fletcher offered nothing going forward or going back, I would hope Blind takes over the deep CM role.

Never thought I'd say this but Anderson has actually looked ok. Moving the ball at pace, tracking back and getting his foot in shows how important Herrera is going to be. Offered more than Mata or Fletcher has done all game.

Valencia has been very poor, sometimes there is a benefit in being direct but running then stopping then tuning again then kicking the ball as hard as you can doesn't count.

Young was ok.

All in all we deserved at least one penalty and adding Herrera, Blind, Rojo, Shaw, Rafa and Carrick we should look a lot better. We need that break or bit of luck to play into form.

I really don't think the formation suits us at all and a 4231 or 4321 would suit us much more.

Cuarado looks a must and an organiser/leader like Hummels (or an experience leader at the back - Vlaar?) look like what we need by Monday night!

What do you guys think?

Good summation. I think vlaar and Vidal would be great, whether we get them is another matter.

Pretty fair analysis of the game although I think had either of the penalty shouts been given it would have been incredibly harsh on Burnley.

The return of Shaw, Herrera and Rafael and the addition of Rojo will improve the side - but I don't think Shaw and Rafael offer enough going forwards to make the formation work and I worry about Rafael's fitness. Cuadrado would be a great signing for his defensive qualities but I'd sooner we switched to 4-3-3 and signed an out and out winger (I appreciate that Cuadrado is a winger by trade - but think there are much better wingers out there from an attacking point of view).

I don't think Blind is the answer to our midfield problems either and think we need to sign a good midfielder rather than an average utility player. Unfortunately I think Blind will be our last business in this window though.

30 Aug 2014 16:33:47
I agree with most of your analysis other than Blackett. His passing today for horrible and he gave the ball away virtually every time he tried the long ball out, which was allot of times.
Disappointing because I think he was been the watch out of all the youngster so far.

Really hope we switch to a back 4 sooner rather than later.

30 Aug 2014 14:49:25
I think after watching that game we can fairly say that Rooney, RVP, Mata should NOT start in the same team. It is too slow a front three to break any game open. Di Maria did some nice stuff in the first half, one twos, great awareness etc. but had little to no support. Again a lack of energy, pace and cohesion from the team.

The need clearly is to switch to a 4-3-3 or 4-2-3-1, play only 2/3 of Rooney, Mata, RVP and play Januzaj instead. That will add some pace and one twos in the side. Rooney, quite frankly has been shockingly bad. He offers almost nothing upfront these days. His first touch, passing, control, awareness, everything is poor. RVP hasn't done much better either. Mata has been slowing the game down and so has Fletcher. Far too many touches being taken before releasing the ball.

The balls coming out of the defense aren't great and that sets it up to be a poor show. AND we are defending poorly. Thank god we do not have any top sides early in the season or we would be getting hammered.

Can't wait to get all the injured players back. If we switch to a 4-3-3 and play a midfield of Blind, Mata, Herrera with a front 3 of Di Maria, RVP/Rooney, Januzaj, only then can I see any quick one two passing being done. Overlapping full backs in Rafael and Shaw/Rojo with a central defense of Smalling and Jones (that is the best we have got unfortunately) since Evans has been shocking. I would even suggest playing Carrick as a center back, at least he will be good on the ball and bring it out properly and defends no worse than this lot.

Maybe, just maybe, this wasn't all Moyes' fault.

Agree on Carrick.

When fit Blind and Herrera can play in the mid and Carrick can play as a CB as he isn't worse than the current lot.

30 Aug 2014 14:44:33
What have learn't today
Blanket can't pass
Evans can only pass to the opposition
Young and Valencia still can't cross
Refs just don't give United penalties anymore

LVG Tactics, well I don't even want to go there.

30 Aug 2014 14:14:19
I just don't understand why we do not start Januzaj. In current form i'd drop either one of RvP/Rooney and start Januzaj.

Or Mata or Valencia.

30 Aug 2014 14:42:11
Or even place of young or valencia.I can only assume we train the players to pass the ball backwards.

30 Aug 2014 13:38:51
URGENT MISSING PERSONS NOTICE

Has anyone seen our Midfield?

We don't have any!

30 Aug 2014 13:51:08
Specifically Juan Mata

30 Aug 2014 14:38:37
Our midfield is a joke , has been for years

30 Aug 2014 13:36:29
If any of you are doubting the arrival of Blind, then that first half just shows that his quality and versatility is much more than needed. Fletch and Young are just not good enough. We are desperate for some of our better players to return from injury, i'm sure we will look a whole lot better when they do, but still think we are going to need another CM and CB before the deadline. We just don't have the strength and depth like we us to. Way too many long balls, but Di Maria just oozes class

30 Aug 2014 14:54:35
all the players coming back from injury will mean LVG to persist more with this joke formation for another 3 games and no wins. 0-0 in the WC is ok mean u r not out, don't think he understands a league concept

30 Aug 2014 13:35:15
Does anybody thing that Evans has become a bit of a virus in our defense?

So far, he's been dreadful, as he has been all season. Then I was astounded when he had a go at DDG for a ball which Evans should have dealt with.

Pointing the blame at somebody else.

I like the guy, I think he's a good defender, but whatever is going on with him lately is causing massive problems. Maybe he was issues with not being made captain? I don't know. Maybe he just can't get used to the tactical set up.

Whatever it is that's causing him problems it's installing a lack of confidence in the defense, Jones and Blackett seem to avoid passing to him, which causes them to stutter on the ball.

I think if we're to see a 3 man defense, then I'll be happy to see Rojo - Blind - Jones.

Evans at the moment is just painful to watch.

Issues with not being made captain?

I think I'd have more chance of being made captain. Evans is at best a squad player who fills in when first choicers are injured as he always has been.

30 Aug 2014 15:08:24
He's been bad 'all season'? He's played 2 games.

GDS, he's played 4 games mate. all of which he hasn't been bad, he hasn't been okay, he's been the worst player on the field every single time.

our 'leader' in terms of defenders is getting destroyed week in, week out and it's annoying me.

I feel like all the progress Evans has made over the past 3 years is for nothing. he's reverted to that same CB that was terrified to play.

30 Aug 2014 13:24:07
Do we even have a freaking midfield? This is just pitiful and painful to watch

30 Aug 2014 13:12:41
This 5/3/2 formation isn't working. Looks like we are overloaded in midfield especially when our 3 at the back get the ball and the oppositions forwards drop back to midfield.

LvG needs to leave pride at the door and play a back 4.

There seems to be no midfielders to pass the ball to by the Cb's and they are hoofing it upfield. Their spacing also looks quite odd and we look wide open and susceptible to the odd broken play goal.

Mata and Fletcher offering very little in terms of bringing the ball out.

30 Aug 2014 12:10:01
A midfield 2 of fletcher and di maria with Anderson on the bench. Shows how much we need at least 2cms.

For those who question car ricks quality, there is a world of difference between him and fletcher and I think he would make a big difference once back.

30 Aug 2014 11:54:31
Di maria starting at cm alongside fletcher, played there very well for real last season and should give us some pace and direct running

Cleverly left out

30 Aug 2014 11:03:32
I don't really see what so many of you have against Blind. He was one of the best players at the World Cup and will greatly improve on what we already have. So now we have 2 of the best layers from the World Cup. What are the chances of one more?

Blind is painfully average. He's versatile - but doesn't excel in any position. I'd rather we took Song on loan or kept Cleverley.

I agree. blind has great vison for a pass and his work ethic is just amazing. he may not be the biggest player or strongest but neither is messi. i'm not comparing blind to messi as a footballer but blind is a good player and will be a good signing. her can play many positions and that is what utd need.

we need him in midfield and as a left back and a center back. great signing for utd anyone who doubts this doubts utd as a club!

Blind isn't good enough for cm we have a better lb and a better lcb already.

30 Aug 2014 12:04:24
He got player of the year last year in the Dutch league playing as a dm, and he is versatile, he'll be a great player for us and so much better than what we have now

Curtr_9
Thats a bold statement.
Blind would be a good squad player but as a CDM he should not be a starter, as Ryan says we have better for the left.

30 Aug 2014 13:15:26
Redseven.

You'd rather keep Cleverly than have Blind? Behave, he's a good player

And I stand by that so called bold statement.

great signing and soo much better than what we have in ando and fellaini put together. sit in front of back three.

Curtr_9 -

What about people who doubt Anderson and Nani and Cleverley? Do they too doubt United as a club?

We don't need him as a left back (we've just signed two left backs) and he's played CB a handful of times as a last resort (like Fletcher and Carrick). What we need is a strong, robust midfielder with a good range of passing who can break up play and link up our defense with the rest of our midfield. That's not Blind.

Curtr-9
The bold statement part I was referring to was
"anyone who doubts this doubts utd as a club"
We all have different views dude but it does'nt mean we don't love our club.

30 Aug 2014 10:26:58
Reports are that we have agreed a fee for Blind.

30 Aug 2014 09:57:36
Ed I know its a difficult one but can you give us an insight as to whether any of the transfers we are shipping out are political? With Kagawa looking like going back to Dortmund could this be a sweetener for first refusal on Reus/Hummels assuming that we get champions league next season. Also potentially with hernandez on his way to Juve could that be a sweetener in a future bid for Vidal/Pogba say in Jan assuming his knee has held up or is it likely that strootman will revert back to first choice target? Thanks in advance.

{Ed002's Note - None of it is "political". You have been watching too many James Bond films.}

30 Aug 2014 10:02:07
Blind given permission to speak to another club and left out of team. He is obviously our next signing. Where will he play, DM, CB, LB until Shaw is fit. Will he be a regular starter? Is he that good?

I think he's a good player, better than our current squad players for sure. As for his position, I think he will slot in where needed, if we do change to 433 then we will need two LB's, he could also slot into midfield when needed and probably anywhere on the left :)

30 Aug 2014 07:30:18
Just looking at the big picture, I am genuinely excited as it has been a years since we have spent or signed players of the quality that we have this window.

I remember quite precisely how the conspiracy theorist around here claimed we had no money, he owners were taking us down some dark path and the best one that we have caps on what we will spend on a single player being 30 million.

Looking ahead there is no doubt that United is a world apart from most teams with the exception of Barca and Real and can move the needle when it wants to. Maybe, Maybe things were just as advertised, sometimes the player/s you want are just not available no matter what the money you are willing to spend. I still believe we will see one big signing before Monday and it will surprise people :)

Whilst we will have to wait to see what this team is capable given the volume of our injuries and change to our playing set up but I reckon after the international break it would be quite fun watching Di Maria, Shaw, Herrera, Rojo, all be in the starting 11. I still rate our 2 main strikers as being the best and on par with City and expect them to have great seasons.

I have bet us to win which I had not done so in previous weeks, hell even bet spurs to win and chelsea to drop points. so here is to a great weekend, drink up:))))

Good post GCU.

GCU

I agree with you, the only small point would be the pace of our two strikers who along with Mata. Let's hope they can keep up with Di Maria.

I was one who doubted the Glazers spending, but given this last two windows I am more inclined to think it was either SAF not wanting to spend big or the owners are now forced into a corner after last season. I do not like what they have done with the overall debt but they have spent big which allays some fears. I would like to see a CB and CM as well having said that. Whatever it is we are heading in the right direction and I see LvG is looking at top quality young players at the same time as first team ones.

I agree after the international break will be the key time after it settles.

As far as money goes I think there has been a change in policy now we have got the debt down.
i really dint think we would of been spending a 100+ mill on players or 60 mill on just one a few years ago.

GCU - I'm pleased we have gotten the cheque book out, but every one of our signings has a big question mark over them for different reasons if you ask me.

Shaw - Still only potential, a lot of money for potential. However he brings a lot of pace, British and could be a great investment long term. Happy with the signing, but could easily go sour as he has done nothing in his career yet of note.

Rojo - Wouldn't get into many teams as a starter in top 4-6. Still a player we need and good versatility.

Herrera - I have been underwhelmed with him pre-season, but again he needs time to settle into our game. Wouldn't start for a top 4 team imo, so another question mark for the money we spent, (especially when Cesc was gettable for similar money).

ADM - We definitely need his pace going forward, I think he will adapt quickly to the English game as well. Not sure about his final ball and think that playing in a team like Madrid covered up a lot about his game, £30mil player for me, not as good as Sanchez either. Just think how much space he had because opponents were so pre-occupied with Ronnie, Benzema, Bale plus the service from Alonso, Modric etc - we don't have anything like that. Paying £60mil and £40mil for Mata (one of them only will play unless we are square peg, round holing it, assuming RVP & Rooney play), that means £100mil is spent in less than a year on one position.

I get the impression if we had gone in for Balotelli we would have had to spend £25mil to get him.

So its definitely an improvement, but scary to think that we have spent so much money and still not many of our team would get into Chelsea or City's starting 11. Hopefully its a case of the team being stronger than the sum of its parts.

Blind on his way as well, who again wouldn't get near the first team of most top 6 teams and a lot of money for a non-specialist who lacks a lot of pace.

With LVG buying these players for his system I am hopeful he lifts the qualities and improves their games to the level we need. We certainly can't afford for these signings to turn out to be squad players (aside from Blind) as we won't be able to shift them on easily and if the manager fails there won't be much cash left over for a new manager to buy his players (just something to consider - where is Fellaini now for example).

So pleased we are backing the manager, just hope he knows what he is doing, because we have spent 33% more than any other club would have on the same players imo.

30 Aug 2014 11:03:23
Beast ,

What will you do if your worst nightmares come through and LVG is a success and Herrera turns out to be a quality midfielder?

Gcu, good post and agree on most of it. I really do think we need a cm and CD urgently. But my doubt is about our strikers, if Hernandez and welbeck leave, then we will have little cover in that area. Rooney and rvp are top players but for some reason I don't think they're going to set the world alight this season. We need pace up front and ADM is a good addition but I'm have niggling doubts about rvp in particular as he doesn't seem to be fit or in form.
I'm also not sure about your assessment of Liverpool, I think balotelli might be a gamble but might prove an inspired signing and they'll be there or thereabouts at the end of season.
Beast, are u trying to tell us that Shaw, Herrera will not get into Liverpool or arsenal or spurs teams? Come on.

Beast

3 established premiere league managers reckon shaw is the biggest british talent they have seen in the last 10 years and that list has players like Barkely on it.

I completely disagree with you on ADM and for me he is the best leftie out there and that includes Reus(excluding Bale). He will open up things for the strikers and even the other wing as we finally have a player who can play down either wing.

You are being extremely pessimistic as all players have some questions about them unless you are messi or ronaldo.

Herrera is a class midfielder and will pull the strings once we get him a decent partner. I have always raved about him and expect to see him as a mainstay of spains midfield in years to come.

I think people have short memories as vidic cost us 7 mill and turned out okay so to say rojo is not good enough or blind is not good enough before they have kicked a ball is an odd statement.

I would have to disagree with you mate on many counts with the exception of City all teams have gaps including Chelsea. What happens if costa gets injured?

I will not argue I would have liked to see a CD coming in and been Vidal's biggest fan and was convinced he would come given what was said in a private setting. Verrati would do :))

All in all I am very positive on things and believe we will buy the right players although it might take a few windows. I still expect to see a couple of more signings before Monday and would not rule out a CD.

Beast
And what if rooney and di maria also play well this season.
Did you see much of di maria at benfica, fergy wanted him but he decided on madrid

Nomid

Ballotelli has been a problem no matter where he has played and he will be the same at Liverpool. It is like good old Ravel who supposedly needed a change of scenery to get his stuff together and less than a year ago there was talk of him going to the world cup.

Once things don't go to plan it is amazing how quickly things go wrong and you get player decent and stories abound with dressing room issues.

I think Rooney and RVP will have big seasons. VN also was not blessed with great pace but he turned out okay for us:)

Our strikers have too much class especially played upfront if given decent service. Young Janusaj is only gong to get better so all in all lots of positive things and hell of a lot better than same time last year.

Luke shaw will be a star although I am not surprised he is not fit given the volume of alcohol him and his group were consuming in news cafe in puerto Banus LOL, but then again he is 19 and had just secured his dream move" his words".

I see us acquiring additional key players over the next 12 months and will see a new team transform. Only concern is I am not a fan 352 with our group of defenders and we will be gifting goals.

You have to love it though as there is 19 other teams and then there is United and the obsession of media and fans alike with us is unbelievable LOL.

I love the buzz surrounding us at the moment :)))

29 Aug 2014 23:18:18
Eds or anyone. Is there intrest from united in either of the bender brothers . Thanks in advance.

{Ed002's Note - Arsenal have been interested in Lars.}

30 Aug 2014 09:35:54
I get confused with the two Benders,which Bender is the better?

Raffa
The one that involves plenty of alcohol is the best.

30 Aug 2014 11:46:15
That comes down too personal preferences mate but imo lars is the better of the two

30 Aug 2014 01:35:14
Carrying on from the "deadwood" post below.
I know we've all give Cleverly stick in the past, and yes he's not "united standard". I remember watching this guy in the reserves back in the day and I thought he was sensational, was excellent on loan at Watford and Wigan. Came back to pre season, kept Xavi and iniesta in his back pocket, changed the game vs city in community shield and helps demolish arsenal 8-2. We all seen the talent, we can't deny it! After his injuries (Kevin Davies tackle if you remember) he was a little bit shy, but I still remember him holding his own in all the big games, outplayed wilshere a few times. Now what I'm getting at is, Cleverly did not become a shocking player over night, he lost his confidence because of fans. The man had to delete his twitter account due to abuse, a flipping petition started to ban him from playing for England! Now we wander why he doesn't take risks, maybe it's the fear of it not working for him and the fans reaction? He's got 0 confidence.
I wish Tom all the best with his future where ever that may be, because with a bit of support and confidence he could be a very good player and we can't deny that! Gave his all every game.

He surely took the game apart in that community shield. And true fans have totally hoped and wished he worked out for us coming from the academy. Unfortunately, injury is the worst thing that can happen to a talented footballer. I don't think the abuse got into him much. The petition was also probably started by a supposed United hating "England fan". Injuries definitely stole his confidence away. And, when you half attempt things, its never going to work out in the unforgiving EPL. I hope he does well and answers his not-so-well-wishing 'critics'.

I though he looked ok at wigan nothing more. If he had been a wigan player I don't think many would of wanted to sign him

30 Aug 2014 01:02:37
We are close to signing Daley Blind will be a good signing but we still need a top cb and mf if possible.

Im not convinced with Blind for the money quoted - 20mill euro apparantly.
I think it could be a mistake to buy him, a glorified John O'shea, can play a few positions but he is'nt specifically great in those positions.

From what I saw of him in the world cup he is a very intelligent player in possession and his positioning which is what we lack. He does also provide cover for various positions which given our injury record is needed.

He also makes high quality crosses and the dutch rarely disappoint. Given the volume of players potentially leaving we will need players of his ilk in the squad. I would have preferred Depay but then again we seem to be sorted on the left side with Di Maria.

Listening to the pundits having a go at LVG lol:))

Have read a few articles on Daley Blind and he's more than a glorified O'Shea:

1. Can play left back/left wing back
2. Can play DCM: understood no.6 is his best position
3. Can play in middle of back 3, mopping up the ball and recycling possession. Good passing range and pressing skills.
4. Good man marker
5. Touted as future Ajax captain/ footballer of year
6. Intelligent and flexible: just the brain player that LVG wants

Obviously want AV or Carvalho but Arfur would help shore up our defence plus offer flexibility in other positions.

Apparantly a fee of £14 mill agreed and Ajax have given UTD permission to talk to Blind.
Good as a squad player but I really hope he is'nt first choice for the CDM role.