Manchester United Banter Archive December 30 2012

 

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30 Dec 2012 23:36:56
Imagine this 11

---------------DDG---------------
Val/jones--smalling---Vidic-----Rafael
----------Bender/Wanyama----------
Nani----------------------------Bale/isco
--------------Kawaga--------------
---------Rvp----------Rooney------

Win the league by a mile {Ed004's Note - There is not enough defensive cover and I think Rafael would be a poor leftback}

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That team would get slaughtered..

-JakeW

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This would be better
___________DDG
Rafael, Smalling/Evans, Vidic, Baines
______Carrick/Cleverley, Bender
___Rooney/Isco, VanPersie, Kagawa
__________Lewandowski

Mancunian Red

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How about

DDG
Rafael Smalling/jones Hummels Baines
Carrick Wanyama
Kagawa
Ronaldo Rvp Rooney

Obviously a little attack minded but Rooney can drop back into mid when needed

Snakey {Ed004's Note - I can't see us getting Hummels and I am not sure the midfield is good enough. Doesn't have a player who will take the game by the scruff of the neck}

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That team would win things Snakey!

DodgyBanter

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30 Dec 2012 23:35:09
just to add to the clevs Carrick chat , Carrick covered more ground than any other player against west brom 6;54 miles
imo clevs will be quite a good tidy player and I think the majority of fans would agree with that but on this site I think he may of been over hyped a bit early and expectations raised , potential world-class and we will build the team around him have been said over the past 12 month
I'm not sure he will ever reach the top level but neither did Nicky butt and he was a very good important player for us
on Carrick I think his been a good player since the day we bought him and does a very important job that it seems people are finally starting to notice
jred

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Good post. Funnily enough I was thinking of Butt in amongst all this Cleverly talk. He gave us many years service as a squad player and although not in the same league as Keane/Scholes I was always happy for him to get games. It is a squad game afterall, and squads these days are bigger than back then.

Gav

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Cleverley is and always will be a decent player to rotate and cover but that is it.... Nicky Butt is the perfect comparison..

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Complete rubbish no name. Cleverley is light years ahead of Butt on a technical level. Cleverley is still learning the game. He is similar to a young Iniesta.
PerthDave

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30 Dec 2012 23:12:59
Sir Alex Ferguson will launch an £8million bid for Crystal Palace wonderkid Wilfried Zaha this week.

Manchester United boss Ferguson and Arsenal will go head-to-head in January after Zaha admitted publicly he wants to move to the Premier League.
----Daily Mirror
Quite popular amongst posters on here, I do recall him tearing us apart in the cup not so long ago.

Patzi

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The Arsenalsite seems to think he is a done deal for them

AJH

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30 Dec 2012 22:33:01
people are moaning about cleverley not being good enough, well why not try kagawa in a 2 man midfield? he's the same sort of player as cleverley but with a lot more talent..

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And we would have the same sort of result

Red Man

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30 Dec 2012 23:18:48
the solution is simple buy a top class box to box who can tackle and a top class forward and play 433

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30 Dec 2012 21:26:53
Lets say that the CR7 for 122m rumour is true and we have the funds to go ahead and buy him. My question is, would you rather King Ronny returns to OT for that amount or bring in 3, 4 or 5 players (based on a 122m budget)that would make all areas of our team a lot stronger?
For me it would be to bring in 4 players unlessRooney is sold then it would be 5. The 4 would be Rodriguez, Isco, Wanyama and Baines & Hummels if Rooney is sold.
I know its abit long-winded but would like to know what your opinions are.
craZRed

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I agree with you id rather sell rooney and bring in the list of players you mentioned, except for baines id have gundogan because i honestly belive we need to get two good mfs to be in our starting 11.
Sulei

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I was thinking a starting 11 similar to this:

-------------------DDG------------------
rafael--hummels/vidic---smalling--baines
-----------------wanyama----------------
Valencia-----kagawa---isco-----Rodriguez
---------------------RVP-------------------

That is with the signings I mentioned, with wanyama behind valencia, kagawa etc and those 4 playing with a similar fluidity that hazard, mata and oscar play with at chelsea. Although looking back if rooney wasn't sold I dont see where he would fit into the team, any suggestions?

craZRed

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Bit of a silly post. You cannot make assumptions that the players you want will be available at the prices you want to pay. You are also not factoring in youth player development into the first team. For example we still have no idea where Powell fits into SAF's thinking as he can't even get on the bench, let alone get a game. There are others in that position too. Everyone knows CR7s contract is running down. If he wants to join us I'd say that puts us in a strong position. We'd be mad to pay crazy money like 120million. Do you want to bankrupt the club ? We should bide our time and treat the club's money as if it is our own. I'd put in an offer of no more than 40million in the summer and play hardball in negotiations. I reckon we could get a good deal if he wants to join us but I'd wait for Real Madrid to blink first. If he doesn't sign, the offer would be 20 million with one year left on his contract or I'd wait a year and get him for free. The pressure is on RM as they have a rapidly depreciating asset due to the time ticking away on his contract. Also unless Rooney shows 100% dedication to training, conditioning and gives up the booze, fags and junk food, I would sell him in the summer too. I agree with Syd. There's more to his absence than meets the eye .... my guess is that he has been sentenced to hard labour in the gym/ training ground to get rid of the excesses of a less than ideal lifestyle. It's not an unreasonable conclusion to come to. He does have previous after all. I would not accept lack of professionalism from any player as it unnecessarily distracts from the goal of winning trophies.
PerthDave

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30 Dec 2012 21:22:49
We should put one of James Wilson, mats daehli, Andreas perreria or januzaj on the bench for the cup game.

Caolán.

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As much as I would like to give them a chance, I think its too early. Wilson and Perreira are both 16, Daehli is too lightweight and might not adapt whle Januzaj has just made the step up to the reserves and is adapting slowly.

The players we should be putting in the cup are the likes of Powell, Petrucci, Tunicliffe and Keane and integrate them in the first team, while moving up some academy players to reserve level.

Mick

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30 Dec 2012 20:21:11
I would like to see BALE and WILSHIRE at old trafford next year we need the balance right on the left hand side as all of our midfielders now that GIGGS has moved inside all our wide men are right footed and also i reckon WILSHIRE is going to be the best centre mid in the world before long !

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Wouldn't that just be ideal. A pipe dream though - Wilshere will not be coming here any time soon and Bale is Spain bound.

Fresh!

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WILSHERE

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Wilshere just signed an extension to his contract only last week.

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Either one is that unlikely that both is just totally out of the question. Wilshere won't move next summer, no way. Bale might but I'm not sure we would pay the transfer fee.

Gav

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Wilshere is a "forbidden fruit". Cant think of any other young player who would be able to replace Scholes in the manner which Wilshere is. Shame though, he is arsenal through and through and too loyal to move to their " rivals " ( Arsenal fans still consider us rivals ).

Mick

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Mick

I think we are wanting to buy him, not shag him

AJH

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AJH

LMAOF

Shahram

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30 Dec 2012 19:58:52
AF's comments today made me very happy, I'm going to assume right now that there are no ulterior motives. An on form Nani is something the team is screaming out for!

Percy

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Well said Percy, quite right.

AJH

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I imagine its purely to raise his price tag. Don't think he has a future here.

Fresh!

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To quote Sir Alex in December 2008 when asked about Real Madrids efforts to sign Ronaldo.

"Do you think I would enter into a contract with that mob? Absolutely no chance. I would not sell them a virus. That is a ˜No' by the way. There is no agreement whatsoever between the clubs.

I wouldn't get your hopes up too far Percy.

Red Man

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What Red Man said. It's simply a ploy to keep the price at a respectable level.

G.A.G.U.S

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Hmmm, I'm also dubious TBH and imagine he will be gone by the end of next summer. Although, if Nani is here beyond January I will get totally behind him. We all know what he's capable of it's just consistency he needs to prove.

Gav

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I think we don't have a acceptable offer for him and potsed back in October that no club will come in for him at our valuations. Now that he seems to be staying, I hope he can get his bearings back and find some form.

Shahram

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30 Dec 2012 19:51:38
I was at the match on Saturday v west brom and it was good to see some of the players were putting a shift in, namely cleverley, welbeck, Kagawa, vidic, Evans.

Young and Valencia were ok for parts but Valencia seems to have lost his confidence or some guys on here seem to think he is carrying a knock.

De Gea was booed for his poor kicks, evra seemed to drift in towards central defence and young had to race back to cover Evra's position.

Now that vidic is back, he should forge a decent partnership with Evans and de gea's confidence shoud go. Rafael has nailed the right back spot it seems. Evra needs to told to defend first and to stay focused. Up from Rvp is immense and along with Rooney will be the in two although chicarito has done nothing wrong. Welbeck isn't there yet and can''t carry the attack.

Midfield mainstay is carrick at the moment. Young is in decent form on the left but can be alternated with Kagawa. Cleverley, Anderson in the centre and if Valencia can get his form going hen right wing is his unless nani somehow plays as if he wants a new contract.

Sorry to waffle guys, but my point is what is the best starting eleven?
I would go with De Gea, Rafael, vidic, Evans, Evra, Valencia, carrick, Anderson, young, Rooney, Van Persie. All depends on everyone being fit.

Thoughts please?

Bryn Mez

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Based on what I've seen this season and also what I sort of expect to happen I think we could settle on this line up (obviously there will be rotation)

____________De Gea
Rafael__Smalling__Vidic__Evra
_______Cleverly__Carrick
__Kagawa____Rooney____Young
______________RVP

For me, that is our best line up. Valencia would be in there on the right with Kagawa left but his form is terrible due to this ongoing injury problem of his.

Fresh!

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Kagawa for young and hernandez for valencia

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'Bryan Mez'

I agree with your assessment of our players at this time

So far as our best 11 - I'd go with 'Fresh!' for now although Evans, Anderson and Valencia would all be close to a starting berth when on top form IMO. It's really close between Smalling and Evans at CB for me.

Gav

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No it is Bryn Mez, Welshman! Not Bryan lol, I get called that a bit though!

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Sorry Bryn (as in Cartwright, off Twintown!). I mmisread it. I'm a Welshie too so I should have known really : )

Gav

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30 Dec 2012 19:40:49
I'll give you guys a fresh perspective on Tom Cleverley.

Everyone thought Anderson was had blown his chance and wasn't gonna make it until recently.

And no one appreciated Carrick or saw how good he was until recently.

The common denominator? Its when they play with Cleverley that they look at their best.

Its the way that Cleverley plays which brings out the best in our other midfielders. He does the running, he is always available for a pass, he keeps the ball moving, he creates the space for Carrick and he makes the triangle passes to set Anderson off. The job he does is underated by most casual fans as they are looking for goals or assists or crunching tackles or all action displays, Cleverley is the water carrier that enables everyone else to play at their best. He does the unnoticed work and for that reason I see him as a main stay in our team for the best part of the next ten years.

Shappy

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Couldn't agree more Shaps. He is here to stay so some better get used to him being around. He will only get better and better rapidly.

Sydney!

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Shappy

I take your point but this is like the 'we never win when Rooney doesn't play' argument. Carrick has always been underrated - its good to see him being appreciated right now. As for Anderson, he has started to show some urgency and play further forward. I'm not convinced its down to Cleverley's prescence though. Part of me thinks when Anderson is fit he will take Cleverley's place and play with Carrick.

AJH

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Couldn't put it better myself. Cleverly is an important member of this squad and seems to link well with everyone.

Fresh!

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Shappy

I don't see Cleverley as first choice or a mainstay for the next ten years nor do I suggest selling him.

It is fine to make triangle passes and keep the ball moving but the way we play , the two central midfielders have to be able to do far more than that. You must have noticed our lack of control in the middle? If we only play two in there then we need a more commanding player not just a short pass and move player. Take a look at yesterday's game, especially the second half , we scraped through until the second goal. We face bigger challenges against better midfields and if our tactics remain the same we will suffer.

Cleverley is a good player but doesn't have the tools to control a two man central midfield and I am not sure he will be able to.

Red Man

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30 Dec 2012 20:30:27
Let me give you this perspective, you are the biggest club in the world, all clubs have a player that does the work but doesn't get the plaudits.

There are numerous players across the UK and Europe that could play in any position you would care to play Cleverley and everyone of them is better than him. I'm sure you could buy any of them.

Would he start for Bayern, Citeh, Madrid, Barca, Dortmund, Arsenal, Chelski, Spurs, Malaga, PSG, Juventus or Inter. In a word NO.

A player can play his position and still bring one or some of flare, attacking ability, the ability to pick a pass or take someone on and move the team forward, he has none of it.

He is not a Manchester United quality player, you can argue it until you're blue in the face but he never will be. At 23 he should be showing it, not maybe aged 26 he'll be the business, he wont. As a footballer you either have class or you don't. Cleverley maybe a premier league player but he will never in a month of Sundays be a Manchester United class player. He will not be with you beyond next season.

Stoner

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Totally agree.
A lot of the things he does go unnoticed but he brings an urgency to the midfield.we certainly need to strengthen the midfield though but the base is there with cleverly, carrick, powell and maybe anderson, plus hopefully another quality addition or 2 before next season n then things suddenly dont look so bad :)

BABY FACED ASSASIN

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AJH, Carrick has not always played this good. He has hit a purple patch so to speak and has been in the best form of his life in the past 18 months. Probably due to staying out of the treatment room long enough to get some consistency, but he hasn't always been this good.

Stoner, sorry but I have never read such nonsense. Is Chamakh Arsenal quality? Is he still at the club? Cleverley will be here next season and will play 40+ games every season if fit. Never read such drivel. If he was available AW would snap him up in an instant as he would fit the Arsenal style like a glove. He will be at least a very good squad player and I expect him to be at United for a very long time.

Sydney!

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Stoner mate I wouldn't expect a gooner to know owt about football.

Xavi at 23 was thought not good enough by most Barca fans. Players blossom at different ages. Cleverley was a small lad at 20yo too small to play centrally even at youth level, he grew into a mans body in his early 20's that is why he hadn't made an impact in the first team before then. He has also suffered with injuries.

I'm not saying he'll be world class but no team not even Barca have 11 world class players.

I think he'll be a very important part of our team for many years to come. Lets just see who is right.

Shappy

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Red Man, we have faced Chelsea, Arsenal & City and done fine in midfield. We do need a sturdy player in midfield agreed, but unless we have a player that plays at a high tempo like Cleverley in midfield we will struggle. Carrick will struggle to find a pass again and the midfield will become predictable like it was last season.

Sydney!

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30 Dec 2012 21:25:52
We're not talking about Chambles and the other dross littering our squad, were talking about Cleverley. He is not good enough and the you support Arsenal what do you know about football is pathetically lame.

Cleverley might be the nicest bloke in the world but that counts for 5h1t and the continued Xavi argument is just another poor one.

Simply because he is the only thing to come through your youth system does not make him class. I say he won't be there beyond next season because if SAF doesn't offload him your new manager will.

Stoner

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Sydney

Chelsea. Cleverley was given a 5 in match ratings, Chelsea dominated possession until reduced to 10 men then 9 of course
Arsenal , Cleverley was subbed after 61 minutes to prevent him being sent off.
Man City, lasted until 87 mins but take a look at the statistics where City dominated.

We need a top player in there if we are going to play only two centrally. Cleverley doesn't dominate games.

Red Man

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Cleverley may not dominate games but he is a great squad player, he will be a United for years to come.

-JakeW

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Stoner, i don't see why the Xavi arguement is a poor one, Drogba was another player you wouldn't have bothered signing at 23. Different players blossom at different ages, no two people are the same and it the same with footballers obviously. Just because one has shown great talent at 17 doesn't mean they all will.

Wes Brown, John O'Shea, Phil Neville, Nicky Butt, Darren Fletcher. All these lads came through our academy and had good careers with us and helped us win many many trophies during that time. With no disrespect to any of them Cleverley is more talanted than all these lads so i see no reason why he should have a long career with us. Will he be a garenteed starter? Who knows, but there are very few who are garenteed a start in our squad due to the strength of it. But Cleverley will be very much a part of that squad.

What you need to understand is it is very hard to get good players who'll be happy with not starting every game, so players who love the club and have been brought though at the club are vital to having a squad that is able to win titles, as these lads are better at accepting such a role.

Shappy

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Red Man, Cleverley isn't the kind of player who dominates games, he's the player who does the unnoticed work that allows his midfield partner to dominate the game instead.

Cleverley in my eyes isn't a partner for Carrick but his long term replacement.

What we need to do is make sure Cleverley doesn't suffer the same way Carrick has in not having the right player to play along side him.

Shappy

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Shappy - a very interesting point in your OP and I certainly think there is an element of truth to it. I'm sure KLOOT will agree ; )

Xavi is an apt example as he is now known as one of the best CM's of his generation. But for years he went unappreciated at that level. Why? Because he doesn't tend to score the goals and he doesn't even make direct assists that often. But he is a genius for the way he links the whole team together and dictates possession and the tempo of the game i.e. the 'unseen work'. Many football fans even today rate Messi and Inesta much higher than Xavi because they don't have a full appreciation of all the elements it takes to make a good TEAM.

Just to mention - nobody is saying Cleverly will be as good as Xavi ( I know some people get touchy!). He clearly won't as he not in the same league technically. The point is about his 'unseen work'.

Stoner - to say he won't be here past next summer shows your level of intelligence. I will bet you any amount Cleverly will be here in 2-3 years time.

I agree with the majority - that Cleverly is a decent player with promise, is still developing and is simply one of the best option we have for CM atm.

So, let's all get behind him till the summer at least! That's when I expect SAF to supplement our CM and Clevs will automatically become more of a squad player. If he improves enough then he can force his way back into the team.

Gav

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Also Stoner,

"Simply because he is the only thing to come through your youth system does not make him class"

Who on here thinks he is class? Read the posts, even the most positive ones say he will make a good squad player in all probability.

The same cannot be said of Bendtner, Chamakh, Squillaci, Santos, Gervinho etc. at Arsenal though. Yet they are still in your squad. Not sure if that says more about your original point or about Arsenal's squad?

Gav

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Red man - yes we do need someone more combative in midfield. I don't think anyone doubts that.

Gav

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Red Man, of course Chelsea and City dominated possession that was the game plan. Let them have the ball, soak up pressure and then break. The plan in both games was executed to perfection. Not sure who rated Cleverley at 5, but he was good in all three of those games. Against Arsenal he was taken off as the manager knew the ref would try and even things out by sending Cleverley off. He still played well up til the 61 minute mark and United were comfortable at 1.0. In fairness it could have been 6 or 7 by that point. So nice try with the spin, but if you watch all three games and watch Cleverley carefully, he was good in all three games and the games changed when he went off.

Sydney!

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30 Dec 2012 19:17:25
Good evening Guys
As I will be at work all day tomorrow I would like to take this opportunity to wish Fergie a very happy Birthday for tomorrow.
I hope he has a good day tomorrow and an even better one on Tuesday with a win at Wigan

Bazza The Red.

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30 Dec 2012 19:12:51
Anyone else think Fabio should be called back from loan?
He isn't getting much game time at QPR now anyways, and it shows a huge contrast where Rafael is playing brilliantly for the team top of the table and Fabio is at bottom.

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The loan move isn't going to plan, much like Macheda's loan there didn't. Fabio is very talented and if he played as much as Rafael I'm confident that he would be every bit as good - I still wish he was our #2 LB instead of Buttner who seems to be more of a LW.

Fresh!

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You can't just recall a player unless its in the loan agreement.

personally, i don't see how recalling him and sticking him in the reserves is going to help, let him stay at QPR and you never know he may just force his way into the side for the remainder of the season.

The Moon.

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30 Dec 2012 18:43:56
Ok, thought id talk about something else other than Cleverley.
I am really starting to believe that this our managers last season, and after talking about it with my friend for a gd while last night it does all make sense.
Over the last few years fergie has really just brought young or English players, could this be because no other manager becoming MU manager would know exactly who are the best young english Players (presuming he doesn't come from another PL club) and there are rules about ''home grown'' players in the squad.
I know we signed RVP but when a player of that qualitiy becomes avilable u have to go for them
b
By not investing in the one part of the team we have been crying out for, for years well that is left down to the new manager coming in to put his stamp on the team.
If u look at Mouriniho and Pep teams the whole build up of there team relies on the MD i.e Essien would break up and build so many attacks for Chelsea and lampard gets in the box to finish off moves, Xavi always keeps the ball moving and Iniesta Floats around popping up everywhere, then when out off possesion they press the other team so fast forcing them to give the ball away.
So the question is who would u prefer to come to UTD? and what MD players do you think they should go for?

Ill go first, i would want Pep and for him to sign Busquetes who i keep hearing is not that impossiable to get, along with Rodriguez and maybe someone like mcCarthy

CTR

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30 Dec 2012 19:25:38
Im sorry but i wouldnt have busquets anywhere near man utd. That guy isnt fit to wear our colours and is better of in london where there are more theaters.
Raone

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Klopp, bringing Gotze with him and Lars Bender, Baines as other signings.

___________DDG______________
Rafael___Vidic__Smalling___Baines
_______Carrick__Bender________
__Gotze___Rooney___Kagawa__
___________RVP_____________

Carrick & Bender providing defensive cover for Rafael & Baines to bomb forward on the overlap. The 3 behind RVP would be very creative and I'm sure we'd score for fun!

Gav {Ed004's Note - Thats looks a very impressive team tbh. However, I'm not sure if Rooney suits the fast style of play as he isnt the quickest. He seems to suit wing play as he has time to get into the box and pick up a good position }

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Maybe you're right Ed, I'm not sure. So long as he does the advanced playmaker role and feeds the other three (who are capable of being more incisive) I think it might work. I'd perhaps give it a season then if need be, look to replace Rooney. We can't do it all at once afterall.

Gav

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30 Dec 2012 18:32:43
"Cleverley does all of the running while Carrick sits in front of the back four. Cleverley probably does three times more running than Carrick in a game."

One of the many gems from Sydney the man who doesn't know his arse from his elbow.
Do you actually watch the games Syd, do you read the stats?, clearly not.
Carrick has easily been our best Midfielder this season and Cleverley is lucky to be in the same team quite frankly.
Cleverley is good at keeping possession and that's about it for me at the moment.
Carrick does play more forward balls now and I think it's down to RVP's movement which has helped us no end.
I don't want to hammer Cleverley or Sydney for that matter but making ridiculous comments like that are just pure fantasy.

Red Daz

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I haven't once said that Carrick hasn't been our best midfielder this season. However Cleverley does the running around which gives Carrick the freedom to be more positive. It's no coincidence Carrick is better when Cleverley is alongside him.

Sydney!

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Sorry Sydney, but every statistic I have seen puts Carrick in the top 3 in ground covered during the game.
Cleverly surely moves around quite a bit, but I doubt it's even 10% more then Carrick.
He surely moves more up and down the pitch, but Carrick moves a lot sideways to cover the fullbacks etc.


Jonny8

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Syd Carrick runs on average 10k a match but no one really notices it.

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Carrick has played in every EPL game this season so his stats are always going to be higher than any other United midfielder.

Sydney!

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30 Dec 2012 18:32:41
KLOOT. Would you have taken a 23 year old Didier Drogba? Not a chance. Would you have taken a 26 year old Didier Drogba? Obviously.

Just because he isn't "world class" at 23 doesn't mean he won't be.

Give the kid a chance.

MPez

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I saw drogba at marseille at about that age and although he had flaws you could see he had something special, whereas cleverley quite obviously doesnt he works hard and always gives his all but he will never go down in history. I think people like cleverley and wellbeck have their place in our squad just like park and oshea did but for sure cleverley will never be the answer to our midfield woes
ps to the eds if zenit are interested in nani would a swap with witsel b on the cards?

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30 Dec 2012 16:35:59
I'm wondering if KLOT just posts to wind everyone up! I'm going to avoid the Cleverley debate...but SAF has been quoted as saying "this is as strong a squad as I have had'. I find that quote rather alarming. I know he isn't going to highlight weaknesses but there's no need to stretch things. I'd go as far to say that apart from the 'Djemba Djemba years', this is probably the weakest squad since the early 90's. The fact we are top is a testament to the team ethic we have developed, some very solid contributions from established players, and a few youngsters stepping up to the plate. I feel like I am in the minority but it feels like we are in transition. To be top is brilliant, if we can add a couple and the youngsters mature, this could be a great squad.

AJH

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This is the strongest squad we have ever had. It's just not the strongest 11.

Sydney! {Ed004's Note - I agree we are a few top players away from having an excellent team}

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Completly agree, we are one or two from being one of the worlds best. We have a very deep squad as you can see given that we have recently played with constantly changing line ups (either by injury or rotation) yet we have still kept on winning.

Fresh!

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Our players right now would barely get a sniff in our strongest eleven of the past.

In 1999, we had a starting eleven consisting of 10 worldclass players. Gary Neville, Peter Schmeichel, Jaap stam, Denis Irwin, David Beckham, Ryan Giggs, Paul Scholes, Dwight Yorke and Andy Cole. From our current squad only 2 players would get into the starting eleven ( argubly 3 ), beeing a fit Vidic and Robin Van Persie.

In 2008, the starting eleven was similar to the current one, bar Ronaldo, Tevez and Hargreaves. Vidic and Ferdinand were better than now, Evra was probably the best Left back in the world, Paul Scholes was still quality, Hargreaves was better than Carrick ever was, Ronaldo, Tevez and Rooney ( he has taken a step back since then imo ) and the great VDS. Only Rafael and RVP would make the starting eleven of then.

Mick

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AJH I like what you did with the name but you are absolutely right this is a terrible squad and as for Sydney well if you believe this is our strongest squad then you must still be on the Christmas sherry. I AM KLOOT

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I agree ed and Syd

We have a very healthy squad of players. The def and ATT are well stocked GK is eh covered shall we say but it's the Midfield that's is and will always be the main let down.

The personnel available are not of the required ability right now and that's why many are stating the need for 2 CM or ready made quality and exp
As the time needed for younger players to grow into that role cannot be afforded to them now. With SAF dragging his heels and sticking to his guns that scholes and giggs are the current answer we have missed out on a bucket load of talent that for reasonable prices could have us bang up there with Madrid, Bayern and even Barca.

We are a step below them ATM only in the fact our CM is so weak in comparison. If we just concentrated on 2 starting 11 quality CM's a LB and a LW we would be sorted for many years to come and we could all say 'transition complete!'

Jono

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SYD I hear there is an opening in the SAF pr department, you would be a shoe in.

Shahram

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30 Dec 2012 18:16:46
The truth is we've been lucky a few times this year after failing to dominate lots of teams. Heaven only knows where we'd be if we hadn't bought RVP. Not a strong EPL this year which has helped hide our midfield and defensive weaknesses. Last years European venture was probably a true measure of how good we really are. SAF also seems reluctant to try " the kids ". Perhaps he's remembering Alun Hansens remarks!
Paulo.

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Fresh, we're 1 or 2 away from competing with the best, not being the best. I'm not on a downer, just being realistic about where we are. We need to sign 2 top quality midfielders, and hope Powell, Petrucci, DDG, all develop well. I've left Wellbeck out as I don't see him making it at United (I'd love to be wrong). if we can strengthen now and the younger players step up to the plate, then we can start to really dominate and compete again in Europe. I've looked back at the squads of '99 and '08 and I guess people can argue either way. One thing that is clear though is that our 1st 11 currently has a couple of glaring gaps which wasn't the case in those years.

AJH

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Kloot, Shahram, name me a United squad better than this one.

Sydney!

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But not THIS year's European venture?

StevieK

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Ed004, we really do need a few more players to improve our 11. Baines is a must, watching him against Chelsea he was awesome. We need that tough tackling b2b midfielder and I think Bender or Strootman would be perfect. We need that Nani replacement, like SAF has said we do not have anyone like Nani, so when he is sold we will need to buy someone like Rodriguez. I also think Lewandowski is what we are missing from the attack. When RvP is missing I wonder where the goals with come from. I do not think we need a CB until the summer after.

Sydney! {Ed004's Note - I reckon a January and summer of Baines, Bender, Cabaye, Rodriguez and Lewandowski would be phenomenal as the cover and first team would be brilliant. Being a tad bit greedy would love a Young replacement as I just don't think he is good enough I would love to see Bale bought but if he is I wouldn't sign Rodriguez as I would prefer another right footed player such as Isco or Gotze etc. However if Witsel is available due to the Zenit fans not wanting him I would sign him and Baines in January}

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I agree our SQUAD is as good as it's ever been, in terms of depth. The best thing about our squad is the manager has faith in all 25 players which means they can usually step in and do a job when required. Compare that with City, where Mancini only really trusts around 16/17 players in his entire squad. Hopefully this will catch up with them and tiredness will kick in at some stage!

Anyway back to our STARTING 11 - clearly it's not as good as some of our glory days e.g. '99 and '08.

Ed004 - I really like your suggestions but I think you're being too greedy, lol. I think we'd get away with just one CM, alongside Carrick, Anderson & Cleverly as our main options. Then Fletcher, Tunnicliffe, Petrucci as extra backup. Don't think we need Lewandowski this summer so that's 2 players saved! I would go with just Baines, Bender and Rogdriguez from your suggestions. I think that plugs all the gaps in our squad and would give us an immense starting 11 as well as the best 25 man squad we've ever had.

Gav {Ed004's Note - Yeah I am the over optimistic ed tbh, I think a summer of Baines, Bender, Rodriguez and Lewandowski is realistic and would be a top summer..}

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Sydney

Take your pick starting from 1999 to 2008. The Squad or the first 11 were by far better than what we have today . I think the difference between our view is based on the fact that during those years we genuinely had one of the top 2 or 3 teams/squads in Europe and the truth is Fergie got out coached and we should have won a couple of more CL.

Today the cream of the premiere league is nowhere near the cream of Europe's best and evident by CL result and come February both us and Arsenal will be sent packing with ease and you are seeing what you want to see because we are leading a league that is not that good with many of the teams going through a transition period either financially or aging teams.

I see the current first 11 as a decent team but nothing special with lots of decent players (Cleverly, Jones, Evans) and a few that you would genuinely say are very good at their positions RVP, Rafael, Carrick.

An out of form and regressing Rooney, Valencia, Nani and an old guard of Scholes, Giggs, Evra, Ferdinand that should have been let go some time ago.

Fletcher, Vidic, Anderson who have big question marks due to injuries and health problems.

Finally a bunch of younger guys who are in the squad but never get to play unless we are ravaged by injuries, which is pointless to even consider them as part of the squad as they are there more as window dressing.


I do not see the young group that is part of the current squad as anything but squad players with the exception of Smalling and that is just not good enough for Manchester United.

We have never had a team where we needed to buy 5 key players to compete at the top in Europe and it is reflection of either our finances or the managers inability to buy correctly, our scouting system and lack of youth coming through the ranks.


Shahram

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I think people (Sharham for example) sometimes look back at our squads with tinted spectacles, we've always had squad players whose quality has been, let's say dubious.

There was a time when youngster's like Ben Thornley and Luke Chadwick played lots of games, that felt bad at the time.

Alan Smith playing regularly in CM, sends a shiver down my spine!

Laurent Blanc at the heart of our defence and Barthez in goal, again does't inspire you does it!

Other suqad players over the years Sharham has mentioned...Pilkington, May, Nevland, Clegg, Curtis, Blomqvist, Bosnich, Fortune, Roy Carroll, Kuszack, Barthez, Chadwick, Ricardo, Bellion, Kleberson, Djemba djemba, Bardsley, Thornley, Possebon, Gibson, Fangzhuo, Liam Miller......the list speaks for itself

Gav

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30 Dec 2012 16:17:02
Ronaldo rumorus really are intensifying. I have backed this move for quite a while and have thought that it was possible. Could this really be happening?

Fresh!

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Fresh, I really doubt it. The cost would be ridiculous, particularly when we have other areas in need of strengthening. The only way I can see this happen is if we sell a high profile player...

AJH

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30 Dec 2012 17:15:04
but we have no high profile players. O wait. Rooney.

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I just don't think that it can be ruled out. SAF is very stubborn, if he wants Ronny and its plausible we will get him, regardless of whether we address other pressing concerns. I feel that we do need to act in January, just to spread the costs out a little bit.

Fresh!

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Why does everyone want to sell rooney? hes the heart and soul of the team and even if we sold him Fergie would never buy Ronaldo we cant afford him! FREDO

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He is not the heart and soul of the team as our current league and cl position has very little to do with his contribution.

Watch a few games from 3 or 4 years ago when we had ronaldo and tevez and see how much fitter he was. Since his big contract and us losing all our marquee players and the old guard not being what they were he is become lazy, he is overweight, overpaid and overhyped.

I assure you the day we can sell him for a lofty price and reinvest in a couple of great midfielders, this team will be miles better.

Shahram

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Rooney is very important to us, but he has been overhyped by the English Press. They all too often put him in the bracket of Ronaldo & Messi, but he isn't on that level. He is the best English player and a top player for us, but we would manage without him - not that I want rid of him.

Fresh!

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30 Dec 2012 16:04:04
Evans was brilliant yesterday MOTM for me and he completely out played vidic. Hope he stays and continues to be a rock at the heart of our defence for years to come!

FREDO {Ed004's Note - I disagree I thought Evans had a slow start and Vidic was consistent the whole game, also Vidic was far more dominant in the air}

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I agree he had a slow start but his all round play was superior to Vidic e.g passing and positioning. FREDO

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I agree with the Ed, Evans in the first half made at least three or four notable errors and it was his poor play that brought the free kicks on us at the end of the first half. Evans did better in the second half but it says a lot to me that Ferguson had to go to three centre halves after the two couldn't cope. I didn't see the same errors from Vidic although he looked troubled by the pace of Odemwingie and Long.

Evans was by no means "brilliant" as you put it.

Red Man

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30 Dec 2012 15:58:30
Guardiola reportedly been offered the managers job this summer and will bring in 3 youth team coaches and 2 assistants. Exactly what I would want, hope this happens particularly the youth team coaches coming in. Ed do you know if there is anything to this report? I have a gut feeling there is with all the meetings SAF has had with Pep this year.

Dan {Ed002's Note - I am not aware of Manchester United having offered 6 jobs - who will they be replacing?}

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Dan, when exactly has this been reported? The Beano?

AJH

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30 Dec 2012 15:46:30
Lets get it straight people think I have a problem and they are right. My problem is a United team full of players who are not fit to wear the shirt. I appreciate the financial constraints that are being put on Sir Alex by the Glazers but that doesn't mean I should be happy about some quite frankly average players turning out for United and making teams like Swansea and Newcastle look good. To quote the boss we are the biggest most famous team in the world and the players who wear the shirt should reflect it. The two players I have the most problem with are the two who I believe put themselves and their personal promotion before the club. Of course I get things wrong and I am happy to admit when I do. Johnny Evans is the most improved player in the league. Anderson when he is played in an attacking role is a far better player than I gave him credit for. I hope I am wrong about the Brand but I would like to see him beat a man a make possitive forward passes rather than just laying the ball of all the time. I AM KLOOT

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Try watching the game again on TV and you will see Cleverley playing positively. Problem is I think you only see what you want to see.

Sydney!

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What makes somebody 'fit to wear the shirt'? Somebody who contributes to win after win and helps the team to be 7 points clear in the league?

Your negativity towards the club is quite frankly embarrassing.

GDS

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But Cleverly has been making more positive passes, so there you go.

Carrick - when does he ever 'run past' players? And what about when he went through a long period of playing the ball sideways and backwards, should we have sold him back then?

You've admitted you were wrong about Evans and Anderson so you may very well be wrong again here. Thank goodness our manager isn't so quick to give up on our players.

Gav

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30 Dec 2012 16:24:11
yawn. Who says he has to beat players? Your favourite player carrick doesn't beat players. Most people on here wrongly slag carrick off for only playing sideways and backwards despite stats showing he has the most forward passes in the league. You correctly back carrick yet nail cleverley for playing the same. Perhaps both are under team orders to play that way and keep possession. Both players have also been doing more going forwards. You say cleverley is selfishly using the club to promote himself. Didn't beckham do the same? How about Giggs? Currently playing on to make some unbeatable appearance record at the detriment of the club. You go on about the brand but i've never seen any of this. Most players do this these days anyway. Like i said beckham was one and so was ronaldo. Ok so he's not hit the heights of those two. But ronaldo is a special one off. All players these days have sponsorships and other stuff. So what if his girlfriend is some reality tv show slapper. Best worked through a couple of miss world contests. Beckham pulled a spice girl. Ronaldo worked his way through hollyoaks. Does it matter? Give the lad a chance he's had one season at wigan and this season at united. So far he's looked promising. Your just picking on him for god knows what reason whilst actually praising other players for doing the same things.

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How often does Xavi beat a player?

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KLOOT

Although I appreciate you would prefer players to become superstars through football alone and should achieve success before "branding" themselves as you say, you need to understand some players have other interests now, not just football, music, fashion, horses, if they can use their name to develop their interest then fair play to them, it clearly works because you seem to know a lot about his out of football going on's so you have obviously looked into it, he is getting his "brand" out there, like they say, there's no such thing as bad press! Why you so bothered about it anyway? Is it effecting his professionalism to Football? Does he miss training for it? Does he ask the gaffer for time off matches to concentrate on it? The answer is no!

As for wanting players who want to play for the team, Cleverley has gone out on three loans, he has been patient, he hasn't asked for transfers, he hasn't asked for increase in contracts, he's been patient and you cannot deny he half heartedly plays the games he's involved in!

The game has changed now, there are few if any Bobby Charlton's, Paul Scholes's in football now who only want the football.

Is Cleverley an average player? Well SAF, Fabio Capello, Roy Hodgson see and have seen something in him and I think these 3 have a good understanding of football.

Ports

P.s, Love seeing QPR get stuffed but against Liverpool, lose-lose situation this! {Ed004's Note - What does Cleverley do off the pitch anyways}

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Clothing I believe Ed004?

Ports

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Cleverley would be a more useful footballer in a team that plays three in the middle. However Ferguson likes to play two and get the ball wide. It places great emphasis on the two centre midfielders getting possession , moving it side to side to create space, whilst also supporting the forwards and screening the defence. It means the two midfielders must be top level to play the way we do. Cleverley is a nice footballer but is not a commanding central midfield player we need to play our style. It is why we are not commanding games the way we should, it is why West Brom and many other teams can get control of midfield. This doesn't mean Cleveley isn't a decent footballer but he just cannot deliver in our system to the level needed.

Red Man

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TC23 was a website he was working on for charity whilst he was out injured. Something to keep him occupied whilst on the sidelines. He plans to expand it in the future and that is what's controversial. People think he is taking advantage of being a United player to set up his own brand. Some people forget he has been a United player for 12 years. I think he should wait a couple years and from what I gather things have been put on hold as there has been a bit of unrest with some fans.

Sydney!

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30 Dec 2012 19:57:41
Hi long time reader but first post. Just have to say kloot makes a lot of great posts except for the one bout fans livin in Manchester but he's usually on the money. This is the worst utd team in a long time they are painful to watch towards past teams. Everyone praising carrick just cause he plays a few forward passes well he's 5 yrs to late doesn't tackle doesn't head and panics under pressure. We had high hopes for clev but we all have to admit he's not good enough runnin 50yards to demand the ball and then pass it backwards. To cut the post short our midfield is the weakest of the top teams and everyone makes excuses for it and we are lucky to be top cause we are horrible to watch

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What a load of whining crap

Kuala

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30 Dec 2012 15:10:52
Ed004 yesterday I mentioned bale and agreed he would be a great signing and turning into a great player, how likely do you think a move for him would be in the summer and how much do you think he would cost? Cheers

Caolán. {Ed004's Note - I think unlikely as he will cost more than 35 million and he is just improving. Also I hope/think we may be moving to a more fluid formation so there are players better suited to this formation for cheaper though Bale has stunning speed that can change a game be from the start or subbed on but he wouldn't be bought to be a sub}

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Ed I think Bale has shown he could play in more if an inside role, most of his goals come from late arrival into the centre of the box. The issue would surely be the cost... But at half the cost of one Ronaldo, and being an out and out left footer...

DodgyBanter {Ed004's Note - Thats what I was thinking... He isn't as good as Ronaldo yet, I am not sure he will ever will be but he will be very close, he brings a certain fear factor, he has tremendous pace his passing is good and means there is more money to get two mids and a left back. If we got Bale would people still want a right sided player?}

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If we did go for Bale I think Young/Valencia could be rotated on the right (assuming Nani is sold). We would still have Rooney, Kagawa, Powell etc. who can play in AM roles.

Gav {Ed004's Note - I dunno but if Bale was bought i think a right sided player is needed because Kagawa seems to play better out left or central as does Rooney. If Rooney is sold I would love to (completely unrealistic and will never happen) see Bale, Kagawa, Gotze and RVP in an attack with Bendar and Cleverley behind them}

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30 Dec 2012 14:44:20
you can tell the window is about to open because all the traditional lets sign sneijder posts are starting up. We are not signing him. Get over it he blew his chance.

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No Name
He blew his chance at what?

Let's hope he does not sign for spurs or loserpool and end up being a thorn in our side and then all the no names like you will be slagging the club for not having signed him when he was available.

Stupid post, quality player and better than everyone of our current and aspiring midfielders.

Shahram

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30 Dec 2012 20:19:05
wow you really get quit angry when sneijder gets mentioned. He blew it when he was making stupid wage demands thinking he was talking to a club who'd pay it. He got the wrong manchester club. I couldn't care less if he was the greatest player in the world i don't rate him, i don't like him and i don't want him anywhere near united.

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No Name

I don't get angry and just annoyed with comments that lack any basis. Which one of our current midfielders are currently good enough (Carrick excluded) when we play a top club who has world class midfielders. It is ludicrous to pass on someone of his quality if the reported fee is the truth as this is the same player that would cost 30 million today if it was not for the extraordinary circumstances.

This team has been lacking quality midfielders for 4 years now and I would bet my last dollar he would be the best midfielder in the squad if we acquired him.

He is proven quantity who can play at the highest level and look the better player against top level opposition.

Wage demands and whatever happened is not public knowledge and just speculation, on this basis we shoot be shipping Shrek out tomm, because the facts of his case were very much made public.

Shahram

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30 Dec 2012 14:06:57
Read a few people talkinng about us signing Bender, are you referring to Sven Bender of Dortmund or Lars Bender of Leverkusen ? I understand these guys are brothers ? Are they similar players ? {Ed002's Note - Bayern Leverkusen's Lars Bender has been a player watched by Arsenal, Manchester United, Spurs and Fiorentina for some time. A move in January seems very unlikely to me.}

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30 Dec 2012 13:47:49
Would snjeider be really worth getting? He last played a game on 26th sept so he would be need quite a lot of game time to get back to being match sharp. Might not be worth a gamble because of that and the cost of obtaining him. I would prefer to buy Baines. I don't think we buy anyone unless we are forced to by the interest of other clubs.

Mad Hatter

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30 Dec 2012 13:44:59
I see the Cleverley debate is in full swing. I dont think he is as good as Sydney declares, nor as bad as KLOOT opines. He looks OK, he has potential, at 23 I would expect a bit more, he is still developing, he's looked good in a couple of games recently, he's looked average in a couple. I'm kind of waiting to make my mind up if you see what I mean. One question though, today would you have Cleverly or Wilshere? Sorry Syd but right now, I'd go for Wilshere every time.

AJH {Ed004's Note - Wilshere}

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Wilshere of course. I hate to say it but i believe even now pogba is a better footballer.

sulei

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AJH, so would I. I haven't said anymore than you are saying now. I defend him because I believe he deserves a chance before forced out of the club like Gibson was. All I say is judge him after a full season in the team, anyone with an ounce of common sense would do that anyway.

Sydney!

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Anyone sane would pick Wilshire mate, he's a cut above. I agree with AJH and Syd's views - nobody is saying Cleverly will be world class but he's a good prospect and he came through our academy. So surely as 'supporters' we should all get behind the lad to see how he develops.

Gav

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People are crying out to get rid of the old and in with the new, everyone moans when Scholes or Giggs start. So why do the same people moan when we start a 23 year old? He will be a great little player for us, world class? no but he will have a decent future.

-JakeW

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I'm not sure SAF is convinced yet. He bemoaned hs absence last year and then hardly played him for through the start of the season.

My point was how much he appears to divide opinion - I see Kloot has had another dig today, whilst posters yesterday were raving about him (Cleverley, not KLOOT).

I agree on the oldies, I'd like to see Powell get more time, Petrucci get a chance, and Anderson given a run further forward when he is fit. Giggs and Scholes still have a role to play as senior statesmen closing out games but I don't see how either of them should start any more.

AJH

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AJH, the manager will be convinced he has a long United future ahead of him, what he will be undecided on is whether or not he will be first choice and whether we need to buy one or two midfielders this summer. Cleverley played in the Olympics so was always going to be used sparingly at the start of the season. I expected to see a lot of Fletcher, Giggs & Scholes up until Christmas and then Cleverley & Anderson playing a lot towards the end. The business end of the season if you will.

Sydney!

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Sydney you hit the nail on the head, never going to be the midfielder that will make united tick and more a squad player and we will need 2 proper midfielders in the near future. Very useful player given the fact that we play close to 50 games a year.

Shahram

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30 Dec 2012 13:42:24
Nani is staying apparently. Everyone round to Percy's for a party.

Lots of names are being bandied about at the moment. I think January is a dangerous time to sign players but...I would happily take Lampard right now, and if we could get him Baines as well. Left back is a real issue right now and Whilst Lampard is 34, that's still a lot younger than Giggs and Scholes. if he gives us 2.5 years it allows us to find out if Anderson and Cleverley will ever be good enough, and also give some of the youngsters a little longer to develop. Feel free to call me a lunatic.

AJH

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30 Dec 2012 14:19:48
i suggested lampard last week as a short term fix. It does make sense but isn't popular. I doubt we'd actually go for him or they'd let him come to us.

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Guetting him for free and on a reasonable wage cant be of any harm could it? We would be guetting a world class player who would pass a lot of his experence to the youngsters, teach Cleverley and Anderson how to score a freaking goal !

Anyhow, as long as he plays better than Scholes and Giggs, and he isnt played when he is over it, a one year contract might prove to be beneficial.

Mick

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Nani will be sold by between now and the summer.

Sydney!

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Lampard will end up in the US or China most likely

Kuala

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30 Dec 2012 13:18:59
i think we are a long way off the finished article yet. We still need a lot of signings. We need a left back but i'm worried on fergies comments about how evra will only be getting one year contracts from now on. He's been a great player but is declining defensively. Has his goals this season blinded the manager? This is no time for loyalty to players who's best days are behind them. We should move for baines who would give us a couple of years to train up blackett. Centreback depends on what happens with rio and vidic. If vidic breaks down again he needs replacing although i hope he keeps his fitness. Rio it depends if he takes a paycut. I can see us leaving centreback for 2014 when rio will be gone and maybe vidic too. We have smalling, evans, jones and keane. That should keep us going for a season and a half so centreback isn't a priority. The big one is midfield. Giggs and scholes both need to go asap. We need two in. Strootman and either mccarthy or wanyama. Add to that carrick, cleverley, anderson and powell and that gives us enough. That leaves the forward line. We don't need a striker unless someone leaves. We do need one or two players like mata or hazard. Shame we couldn't get moura. I think zaha would be a good signing. And isco or rodriguez. So for me baines, strootman, mccarthy, zaha and isco would be fantastic.

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30 Dec 2012 13:18:26
Get over it girls he is 23 not a young kid he should be running the mid field at that age. He was taken off because he disappeared in the second half. I AM KLOOT {Ed004's Note - So Kloot would you prefer Cleverley to be sold in the summer or kept as a squad player?}

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He is 23 and had two full season's out with injury. This is his 1st proper season as a United and England player. Why not give him time?

Lets not forget he done most of his playing on the wings and it wasn't until last season he moved to central midfield. If you do not like him then that is up to you, but if you are a genuine fan you would give him a chance.

Sydney!

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"if you are a genuine fan you would give him a chance"

Couldn't agree more with that, Syd.

Also it's not the player's fault that our manager has not invested in CM for years. If we had a decent CM Clev would be intergrated more gradually and not relied upon as he is in the fans eyes. I think we will buy a CM soon and Clev will be a good squad player in the future.

Gav

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Kloot if you want someone like Giggs or Scholes starting in midfield carry on complaining, I would prefer Cleverley over them right now.

-JakeW

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Giggs and Scholes are both far too old to be playing for Manchester United anymore but does that mean I should just accept someone who at best is just decent. Have our standards dropped so much. I AM KLOOT

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Gav, people also forget that he wasn't a central midfielder when playing at youth/reserve level. He played as a left winger in the England U21's. He has been playing in central midfield since the beginning of last season. Then he had a horrendous injury keeping him out for most of the season and this is his first proper year playing as a United first teamer and playing for his country. Lets not forget he has played in the Olympics too so has had a longer season than most. He should be given at least a full season before pushed out of the club by fans like Kloot. Look what happened to Gibson, well at least Gibbo got a fair crack of the whip. If he doesn't make that midfield sot his own then so be it, but if we get a very good squad player out of him then I will be very grateful.

Sydney!

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Kloot, we all want a new midfielder my friend. You are not alone there.

Sydney!

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30 Dec 2012 13:15:21
Felt great to get a clean sheet yesterday, even under heavy pressure from WBA in the 2nd half.

I remember a time when Vidic & Rio were in their prime that I wasn't nervous being 1-0 up, as any cross aimed at our penalty area seemed to firmly meet the head of one of these 2. We haven't had that for a while now but let's hope we're getting it back.

Vidic got int the way of loads yesterday and Evans did well at times. I am a big fan of Smalling's aerial ability too, it would be nice to see him partnered with Vidic when Rafael comes back at RB.

If we can start to nail down our defence I'm sure we'll see a boost to the confidence of the whole team.

Gav {Ed004's Note - I reckon not only is a defence of Smalling and Vidic brilliant for ariel threats both are very good tacklers, Smalling is quite quick for a centre back and he reads the game brilliantly, I have no doubts about him becoming a world class centre back and we all know how good Vidic is and he was very impressive yesterday, lets hope he stays injury free and I think cover of Evans, Jones and Rio/summer signing? is very good}

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Agreed Ed004. I was actually beginning to worry we would never see Vidic at anywhere near his best but yesterday's performance has renewed my confidence. If he gets back to 80-90% of what he had before I'll be happy. I agree we have good options at CB. I'm a fan of Smalling, Jones and Evans TBH

Gav

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30 Dec 2012 13:09:34
I really am not fussed if it happens but when fergie keeps saying that "he will only come into the market if a top player becomes available for value" and it just makes me think he is on about Sneijder. We know fergie is a very fond admirer and it was only the price that put him off last time, I think for around £15 million its a steal and would add another dutch world class player to our ranks.

RedKnight

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I thought it was his wages not the transfer fee that was the problem

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30 Dec 2012 13:08:57
I know this player has been talked about a lot over the past few windows as he keeps getting linked to us in the papers but I think for the fee they are talking about 8-12 million for a player of his quality is a bargain. Sneijder is quite old at 28 but RVP was older when we signed him and had a far worse injury record than Sneijder and look how well he is doing for us atm.. The biggest issue with this Sneijder deal our his wages, now i reckon we would be able to include bonuses in his contract to persuade him to sign such as more money for games played etc as that would rule out to an extent the issue about some of Sneijder injuries.
Now for 8-12 million you are getting a world class player who when playing under a world class manager (Mourinho) something we have, was inspirational in his sides treble and at the time Inter didn't have the quality players I feel we have. I know a lot of people are worried about his form but when he was playing with quality players at the Euro's in the summer he was a standout player in the Holland team and i can still vaguely remember one of his passes with the outside of his right foot which was sensational. There are very few players in the world I could think of that would even a attempt a pass like that let alone make it, which leads me onto the position he could play in this team.
His versatility and quality of his passing makes him a very useful squad player let alone a quality first team player. He is able to play anywhere in the front 3 of a 4231 and with his passing ability I feel he could do a Scholes job and play in a deeper playing position however he would need a defensive minded player beside him. I think an attack of Kagawa, Rooney, and Sneijder could be extremely productive behind the clinical RVP and it is also further competition for Rooney who I feel has become complacent over the past few years as he knew (from the media mainly) he was the main man at Manchester United. Also we saw in the summer what a world class signing did for the club I reckon Sneijder could recapture the form he had when he was hailed as the best/one of the best in world 2 years back. Watching him closely in the summer for Holland surprised me as to how much of a hard worker he is off the ball. Sneijder isn't a lazy player and I feel he would suit the style of play we were playing against West Brom in the first half that left them having no threats on the utd goal until nearer the end of the half. I feel a January of Baines and Sneijder which shouldn't cost more than 25-30 million would be extremely productive and leave our team very strong in all fronts especially if Sneijder could adapt to a deep lying role as his passing is good enough for it and if he isn't his presence will surely push Rooney on further...
The Red Manc

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The best and most balanced post i have read on this site for some time. Agree with everything you said mate.

Shahram

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30 Dec 2012 13:05:11
A formation with Rooney, Kagawa, Sneijder and RVP. I know SAF has said we won't buy anyone, but he can't predict the market with all it's ups and downs...RVP was never a long term plan, but he became available and we (rightfully) went for him. I can see a similar thing with Sneijder this January...so here goes...

--------De Gea--------
Rafael-Vidic-Evans-Evra
----Carrick--Clevs----
-------Sneijder-------
Rooney--------Kagawa
---------RVP--------

No wingers obviously, but a very free flowing front four, the interchange we could see especially between Sneijder, Kagawa and Rooney would be immense IMO. I know some people on here aren't fans of Sneijder, but he could bring a real edge to the team that we've been missing in recent years!

Andy! {Ed004's Note - I would play Smalling instead of Evans and I think in the summer we would still need a midfielder and left back but overall it looks a good tean}

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Yes I agree ed004, well with LB and CM anyway! I think Evans is closer to the finished article than Smalling, and the formation was really meant to be for the close of this season...I think replacing Evra with Baines/Coentrao and acquiring either Strootman/Bender/Sandro over the summer would complete us.

Andy!

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30 Dec 2012 12:35:53
Why Vicente Del Bosque is not recommended as a potential candidate for future United Manager?

Positives:
He is one of the best managers in the world won WC, UCL etc.
Won UCL with Real Madrid in recent times, even Mourinho is struggling with them

Negatives:
World cup 2010 was won by the team which is already regarded as best ever and he just did the basic managerial things right(All the heavy lifting was done by Barcelona youth academy).
At Real Madrid he had every weapon at his disposal so nothing new.
His Age.
Not tested in England.

I request Utd fans to add to positives and negatives.

Ravi

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He doesn't have the highest opinion of the Irish does he? I AM KLOOT

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30 Dec 2012 13:26:43
i think he doesn't speak english, if i'm right that could be a drawback. Also like you said he's never been challenged. Anyone could win with madrid, its a two horse league, scotland with the weather. Ok europe is more of a challenge but still you should be making semi's at least. As for spain well again most managers could have done that.

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30 Dec 2012 12:22:31
In the last couple of days I was not able to take part in any discussions, so I would like to give my view on some of the matters that have been discussed :

1- Ferguson's latest comments. Don't get me wrong, his last 2 press conferences were quite frankly a bit embarrassing. But throughout his Old Trafford reign, he has been known to take the spotlight away from his players and take the pressure off them. His tactics might be a bit outdated, and he might be unable to spot the deficiencies in Scholes and Giggs' games, but he has always been, and still is, the best man manager in world football.

Take a look at the game against Swansea. We drew against a team we should be able to burry ( on paper at least ). Our "talisman", Wayne Rooney, had a game the mighty Kleberson would have been proud of. Then after the game Ferguson came out with the ridiculous " he could have been killed " line and took the spotlight off Rooney and the team's performance.

A week later, we were close to being embarrassed by a weakened Newcastle side close to the relegation zone and without 4 of their most influential players. De Gea had a stinker, so did Scholes and the whole defense. Now losing would have been frankly embarrassing, Scholes would have been disrespected by the media and De Gea would have been buried alive by the British press. Here comes Ferguson with the "Wee club from the North East ".

In my personal opinion, Ferguson couldn't care less about William's ball or Pardrew's comments. He did what he always does, protect his players. I might be one of the supporters who think that It might be the time to step down for Ferguson, but he still has his brilliant approach.

2- De Gea. Like everyone else in the squad, he has his supporters and his doubters. But the fact remains that, at 22, he is one of the best young goalkeepers in the world. He might not adapt to the English game, but he will go on to be one hell of a keeper should it be here or in Spain. For now, I believe he is steadily improving (even if he is taking a long time), and now with Vidic in the team, there is an imposing figure in the heart of defense to take some pressure off him.

3- Cleverley. "The brand" as some like to call him. He is by no means my favorite player, and I think the celebrity stuff he has been involved in is bullsh** since he has done nothing yet to prove himself, but that doesn't take away the fact that he is a talented lad with a great work ethic. The manner in which he keeps buzzing everywhere on the pitch making himself available and adding pace to our play is not unlike a younger Scholes. I have my doubts about him : he seems to play the easy pass more often than not and move sideways a lot, his long range passing is weak, his creativity is limited. But it looks like when he doesn't play, our team suffers. When he plays, we become more of free flowing team attacking as a unite destroying everything in our path. Our latest match provided some answers: he is working on his long range passing and his vision but his lack of ability to influence a game when things are not going his way is something he has to work on. During the second half he barely touched a ball. He has to learn how to control a match with his passing and ability to retain possession like Scholes, Xavi and Pirlo often do. He still has a knack of disappearing at times. That should get better with age, but this is why Arsenal fans keep raving about Wilshere (and rightly so). Even at a young age, he could still influence any match. I think for now we should stick with him ( Tom ), he is the best available option.

Feel free to share your thoughts.

Mick

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I agree with your assessment of Cleverly. We don't have any better options for now so we should stick with him. I think we will invest in CM between now and the summer and then we won't rely on him so much. It's not his fault that we don't have a 'world class' midfield and therefore he is relied upon quite heavily given his relative inexperience. I think we should get behind him as fans and hope he keeps improving.

Gav {Ed004's Note - A wold class midfielder is available in January in the form of Wesley Sneijder, however in saying that, I am not sure if he would be able to/willing to adapt his game to play a deeper position as his passing is equal to or as close to Scholes as we could get atm.}

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Good to see someone with a sensible view of what is happening at the club and the brand who is 23 not a kid. I AM KLOOT

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Ed004 I wouldn't play Sneijder in a 2 man midfield in the EPL, so he is not an option in my eyes. I'd take him as an AM maybe, but then I'd prefer we get someone younger and less injury prone.

Gav

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KLOOT

I actually think most poster's agree with Mick's assessment of Cleverly. Did you read it all? It's just you who makes him out to be worse than he is and just one or two dreamers who say he will be 'world class'. The rest of us think he is a useful squad player who is still improving, and are willing to give him time to prove himself.

Are you aware of the phrases 'support' and 'united' ? ; )

Gav

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Ed, Sneijder never was a good tackler, and his positioning is suspect although his workrate is not. I wouldnt hold my breath on him playng in a 2 man midfield, but if Scholes has surely Sneijder can. But for that to work we need a runner, someone who covers a lot of ground and who can win possession back, we also need to play a high defensive lineup .

The obvious choice is playing Sneijder in a 3 man midfield, with Carrick and Cleverley behind him with Kagawa on the right, Rooney on the left and Van persie through the middle. That way when we attack we will have a fluid front 4 of Rooney, Van persie, Kagawa and Sneijder. That surely cant be good for any opposing team.

With Cleverley dropping a bit back along with Carrick, the fullbacks can advance and create the width lacking because of the lack of use of wingers.

Mick {Ed004's Note - Thats where I think he will play Mick, however, is Cleverley could enough defensively. He is good on the ball but I don't think he is good enough to sit back the whole game he prefers to get forward}

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If we do get Sneijder, I think Cleverley will adapt his game to drop back. Over the last couple of seasons, he has been improving his tackling and long range passing. Plus can cover both fullback positions should those advance, so think he will be groomed into a deep lying playmaker, a bit like Carrick was. Ideally I would like to see him partner Strootman. Both can cover a lot of ground so that would allow one of them to occasionally join the attack wth the other one hanging back. And with our centre backs maintaining a high line, our game would not be unlike Barcelona or Bayern, keep the ball in the opposition half..

Mick

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30 Dec 2012 11:18:03
Id love to know tottenhams chief scout and get him to old trafford! With 3 of their recent signings Utd would have a fantastic team. Vertonghen, Sandro, lloris, Dembele, take your pick. Vertonghen is quality at either ctr back or left back( both areas we could do with cover). Sandro and dembele(hardly needs explaining). Lloris is proving to be a good signing now, anyone who can oust Friedel has to be top notch.

Parks.

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All good players, and I agree they would improve us. Not so much a matter of scouting IMO though, we've all known about these players for a while now it just seems like SAF didn't want them. I think Vertongen and Dembele particularly would have been top signings for us in the summer.

Gav

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Gav

No doubt those 2 would have been great signings for us, I only mentioned the scouting because spurs seem to make quality signings 9 times out of 10, we sign a bebe every now and again!
Parks

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Lol, frickin Bebe! I know what you mean. There are certain European clubs in Portugal and Italy who always seem to uncover hidden gems too! Having said that, I think we are due another Evra, Vidic or Ronaldo...or hope so at least : )

Gav

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30 Dec 2012 10:21:33
I see many views on Cleverley and his performance yesterday, it seems to attract some opposite views.

I remain uncertain on Cleverley and his second half showing yesterday being one of the reasons. In the first we had energy without much punch. Much of that was the combination of Kagawa and Welbeck. Welbeck, as I have said before does some things well but no one thing at the top level and too often carries little goal threat. Back to Cleverley, why did the manager pinpoint the heavy pitch and how tired Carrick was yet had to take Cleverley, the very much younger man, off? To me Cleverley and Kagawa are a similar style of player, can play good football but don't dominate the midfield. Cleverley got lost in the second half when the baggies dominated that area. Ferguson doesn't have the player we need, a Roy Keane, a leader, West Brom would not have had a sniff if Keane in his prime had been playing. What we have got is Carrick who has become vital because of the type of players we do have. It may upset some but Cleverley at 23 should have more legs than Carrick, doesn't stamp any authority on a game and in a midfield two isnt good enough to carry the midfield especially against better teams. Cleverley is stuck because he is better playing further forward but that is not what we need and is an area earmarked for Kagawa, plus I believe Powell has bigger potential there too.
Cleverley could play in a central three in midfield but the manager doesn't play that way, so at the moment we will get displays like yesterday's second half from Cleverley.
This is where we have a lot of frustration, Scholes nor Giggs can command midfield and whilst Anderson displays energy he has yet to put a few games in a row dominating anything. If Carrick gets injured we have a problem, a problem of the mangers own making and it is a position Cleverley can't fill. Good footballing player but commanding midfielder , no.

Red Man

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30 Dec 2012 13:06:20
The reason carrick has ore legs as you say is because he sits and defends. Cleverly moves and makes himself available.

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Cleverley does all of the running while Carrick sits in front of the back four. Cleverley probably does three times more running than Carrick in a game. The second half WBA had more players in midfield and that is why they had the upper hand. Cleverley will play against Wigan on Wednesday, that is why he was taken off.

Sydney!

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Syd, stats say carrick ran the most against WBA

Trident! {Ed004's Note - Wouldn't surprise me, in the majority of games Carrick runs the most in the current squad but no one seems to notice that...}

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Trident!, Carrick played an extra 13 minutes than Cleverley. But I stand corrected my friend.

Can I ask what k Cleverley ran in the game? Thanks.

Sydney!

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If it is about distance running then maybe we should look at Mo Farah ;)

This is about the command and control in our midfield which , no matter how far Cleverley runs , he has not yet demonstrated he can do. However he certainly should have more energy and miles in the tank than Carrick

Red Man

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30 Dec 2012 08:56:24
Just watching v nistlerooy all the goals on mutv. He was an awesome striker. Him Rooney and ronaldo was awesome. Rooney looked so fit back then.

Nozzla.

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30 Dec 2012 06:40:58
SAF was reported saying there's another contract talk ongoing with Nani's camp. Hope they come out with a desirable conclusion that will benefit the club. For me, Nani is one hell of a talent we can't afford to throw away. Let this one be settled and you'll all see how the player (Nani) responds. fmy

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30 Dec 2012 12:43:28
the minute it was signed i'd have him on the transfer list.

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"the minute it was signed i'd have him on the transfer list."

lol that's what my devious mind was thinking as well!

Gav

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30 Dec 2012 05:15:07
SAF says its a busy period and we can't play the same team in every gam and I do agree with him but inspite of this there is on constant name on the team sheet and that's Patrice Evra, why not REST him as well?

MUMBAI_BOY

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30 Dec 2012 02:48:41
Hi all

Walcott is doing a Rooney, and holding out for a bigger pay day... I think it's unlikely we will buy him.
SAF needs to focus on the key areas of our team
With vidic back we won't strengthen the defence so lets hope he at least coughs up for a new midfielder.. As Giggs and Scholes just slow down the game too much, as the others are aware that there legs are gone

Reddevilfan

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30 Dec 2012 00:08:27
Anyone else really hate seeing sky blue ribbons on the premier trophy graphic on MOTD? Winds me right up!

We just got to win that trophy back from the council house!

DodgyBanter

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Even more of a reason to win it back!

-JakeW

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Aguero waving his shirt about breaks my heart every time. Totally guts me, they got a REALLY special championship winning memory there. Against the best possible rival. I was with a couple of city m8s at the time, I wish to God I didn't gloat the way I did with 5mins to go, only for the ultimate backfire.
Trying to comfort/defend myself with all the historical ammunition in the following banter didn't get me anywhere. So for me, the championship is a must!

Patzi

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30 Dec 2012 00:07:19
de gea on his way to real madrid with casillas being pushed out the door by mourinho. 22million bid has been tabled.

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Mourinho will be gone long before that

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