Manchester United Banter Archive December 30 2014

30 Dec 2014 20:05:11
Hi Ed, What impact do you think the failing economy and collapse on the rouble will have on Russian clubs? Do you forsee a raft of sales of top players out of Russia?

{Ed002's Note - The issue is something else, but there are a considerable number of "overpaid" players in Russia (e.g. Hulk, Witsel, Valbuena, Movsisyan, Kuranyi and Ozbiliz) who are earning significant wages and bonuses.

The Russian Football Union has been trying to negotiate a salary cap (at the behest of the Government) but it is not being well received. The clubs are not in an Anzhi-type situation but would generally welcome a reduction in wages. Three Russian clubs (Zenit St Petersburg, Anzhi Makhachkala and Rubin Kazan) are subject to UEFA sanctions (similar in a way to Manchester City and PSG) and each wants that behind them.

The likely result will be that (a) a salary cap will be gradually introduced over perhaps a three year period, (b) a number of the higher paid players (such as those named above) will be offered a one off payment in exchange for a salary reduction but this may not be attractive to all; (c) a number of the higher paid players (such as those named above) will be sold in the summer.}

30 Dec 2014 23:59:25
Interesting, i wouldn't be surprised if we show interest in Witsel or Ozbiliz in the future

30 Dec 2014 18:55:53
Little bit rude don't think I will be using this service again

{Ed002's Note - One less cretin to worry about then.}

30 Dec 2014 11:54:47
Big game coming up. Stoke is always a daunting place to go to and i think if were going to be relying on our poor flanks, young and valencia, to do the crossing, i think itll be hard for us to win. Stoke are a physical team with huge players. We will be wasting time if we constantly look to cross the ball in. This is why i think its essential we have some pace and creativity in the middle. For this we need atleast herrera back. Herrera helps creates holes which will give us room for the likes of falcao and rvp. It will also open up the flanks, where i think rafa and shaw should both start. don't get me wrng valencia and young have done well but they can't beat a man and young will always cut back and cross whereas valencia stalls then passes back or crosses the ball to row. This slows down play, allowing stoke to get back in numbers.We need to be running directly at them. As we saw vs villa, the lack of pace stood out and there were signs of last season where nothing was happening. let's hope for a good performance, going 2-1 to the reds.

Young's crossing has been very good of late. Valencia has forgotten how to cross a ball though.

I think that's why we saw both come on against Spurs, to see how the system worked and to get both a little game time.

I would be very tempted to drop RVP for this one and play Rooney up top with Falcao so that we can fit the creativity of both Herrera and Mata in. Creation through the middle will be very important in this game because as you say, Stoke will likely deal with Valencia and Young's crosses (although Young has played very well recently).

I also can't see us moving from 3 at the back for now.

30 Dec 2014 13:25:10
Fresh,

LVG has already said on a number of occasions now that when Shaw and Rafael are fit we will be moving to a back 4. I imagine this will now happen, either in the Stoke game or Southampton the following Sunday.

I think we will play 4 and 3 at the back depending on opponents .
I think lvg was saying he never had the option to play 4 at the back with raf and shaw out, now he has .
So i would expect to see both formations

Samthered. Yesi don't deny youngs crossing has been good but with the slow paced football were seeing, stoke will be back in groups by the time hegets the ball in. Iftheyhandled young, what could we hope for bar a piece of magic?we desperately need herrera and mata cutting the defense

I don't think the football has been slow paced in the last two games. The first half against Spurs was excellent because we moved the ball so quickly.

I personally think we will beat stoke without to much trouble. Against Spurs, it was plain to see that the Spurs backline were terrified of RVP and Falcao, hence why we got so much joy down the wings because the Spurs fullbacks pushed in so tightly. I expect Stoke to employ the same tactic. And if they do try to press us and push men forward, Mata and Rooney will have plenty of space to operate in to cause maximum damage.

30 Dec 2014 10:27:46
Is Nani worth a last chance at United?

He's no better than what we have, where would he play?? I'd rather give januzaj the chance

30 Dec 2014 11:38:58
No he's botched the last 3 seasons, how many last chances does he need. Time to cut our losses and get rid.

We have too many players that aren't consistent week in week out, Nani, Hernandez and Cleverley I hope won't return.

There is still a 'clear out' to be done I agree beast. Cleverley, Hernandez, Nani, Anderson, Lingard maybe, Evans for sure, Fletcher all don't have a future.

30 Dec 2014 13:21:32
Cleverley and Anderson are I believe out of contract this summer unlikely to be renewed. Nani and hernandez can raise some funds. Lingard I can see going too. Fletcher should join the staff.

Good news is it looks like he will win player of the year in Portugal if he keeps it up which should help if we want to move him. It also does tell of how overinflated the prices are for some the players coming out of that league and the quality of the league.

30 Dec 2014 16:33:22
Fresh/mrE I hope you just got lingard and lindegaard mixed up, Jesse lingard is still very young and a good talent, wouldn't want to see him leave at all

30 Dec 2014 17:02:43
I can't answer for fresh but I meant lingard, I can't see him making it.

30 Dec 2014 17:22:35
Oh, God. Please not this again. I was one of the few prepared to give the mercurial Nani another chance last season. And how did he repay my faith? Exactly.

Considering what LvG has done with Young and Fellaini, who knows. But still best sell him with the current form.

29 Dec 2014 22:32:48
Quick question Ed's
Any truth on the vidic returning rumours

Are united planning on bidding for curdado this January

{Ed002's Note - Try the search function.}

30 Dec 2014 00:10:41
Done some digging to get my figures right, so here it is Mats Hummels injury record for his time at Dortmund. He has had 18 seperate injuries including a torn ankle ligament, 2 seperate ankle ligament ruptures, back issues, knee problems and a further two ligament injuries as well as flu fever and a fractured jaw.

He has had over 479 days off with injury and missed 85 games for Dortmund. This doesn't take into account the time and games he has missed for his country through injury.

So he actually has a worse injury record than any of our current centre backs, hardly the man to solve our defensive issues if he can't stay fit, and it certianly not for the 40m plus that it will cost to buy this glass defender. His knees, ankles and back are shot and he's not even close to 30 yet. He is a very very good defender, arguably world class, but he is also a crock. And that my friends is why we should stay well clear of him.

{Ed004's Note - Good post and very convincing at that. After reading that would probably avoid him and look to Godin or Laporte.}

Completely agree, I've always been against the signing of Hummels.

I plan on writing a blog post this week analysing the players we've been linked too and who would perhaps would be the best fits,

On the subject of Laporte (as much as I would take him) I'd much rather have Inigo Martinez and/or bartra - maybe the Spanish bias is showing but they're both terrific, quick and technically sound defenders (as is Laporte).

30 Dec 2014 07:28:44
I'll look forward to that Moon mate, your write ups are always a good read. Althoughbif your write about every player we've been linked to then your going to be a busy man. It gets crazy especially this time of year, I think we've been linked to something like 40 players since the close of the summer window.

For me we only need to look at three positions, CB, RB, CM and a wide player. Then maybe a second CB if there's the cash left to. I perfect summer for me would see us do a double deal with Southampton for Schneiderlin and Clyne, Otamendi from Valencia and Reus. We'd crush all before us with those signings. Butbwe can dream hey. Lol.

I would like to see godin and Coleman in januray . And I'd be happy with In. the summer depay. And a top cm like Vidal but I no that boat as saled

I've never wanted hummels. I think he lacks the physicality required in Pl. I would like us to get Sergio ramos. A true leader and a fantastic defender.

Hummels signed for bourtmund in 2009
That year he missed the grand total of 8 league games not all through injury .
The following years he missed 6, 5 and 10 again not all through injury he was rested for some.
Last season he twisted his knee and ankle and missed 15.
He played 146 league games in 5 years .
J terry played 149 in the same period.
And he isn't really injury prone.
chahill played 150

Smalling played 77
Evans played 100

Very interesting info Shappy, had no idea. Makes me wonder a bit because i am very PRO Hummels. But did we look at a similar stats breakdown for RvP before we signed him for that amount at that age, yet he has come good for us, or at least he did.
I personally believe we have defenders with all the necessary abilities, what we don't have is a leader, someone to command the defense. As such, that will be my number one trait to look out for in a new CB. Vlaar could be a perfect "quick fix"

30 Dec 2014 11:33:56
jred,

They sound like more realistic stats and puts a bit more perspective into it. How the hell Shappy knows Hummels has had 479 days off I will never know, is that including his summer break, what about his annual leave? Without saying how many he has played like jred did, how many he has missed doesn't really put it into perspective.

30 Dec 2014 11:34:07
Smalling during his time at the club has missed 27 games through injury.

Evans has missed 52 games and been out for 260 days he has also been in the first team of our club for the same amount of time as Hummels has played for Dortmund so would be an excellent comparision.

So Hummels has missed 479 days and 85 games through injury compared to Evans 260 and 52 games in the same period.

No one is saying Hummels isn't a vastly better player than Evans just that he is just as injury prone if not more.

30 Dec 2014 11:43:57
I find the leader arguement an interesting one. For me there is a difference between being a leader and being an organiser. I think what our defence needs is greater communication so that the defence is kept well organised.

Personally I have always preferred to have the goalkeeper organise the defence as he has a full view of what is going on. But the best defensive partnership come from communication between the defenders.

We need someone who is vocal and can help organise but lead by example. They also need to be able to step forward and be an option for the midfielders to pass to with the security that they are a confident passer. But a key element to having a leader is they need to be on the pitch, Which for me there has to be a genuine question of just how often Hummels would be.

30 Dec 2014 11:50:24
Also bear in mind for most of their united careers smalling and Evans were backups for Rio and vidic. Hunmels has always been first choice.

I think he's too much of a risk for that kind of money. And the physicality of the league will get to him. Someone mentioned van persie but we knew he could handle the league.

I just think too much of a risk, we need someone with a better record.

I on the other hand don't see a difference between a leader and organizer in defense. A leader should be able to organize and vice versa. I can't see jones organizing himself let alone the entire defense nor do i see smalling leading the defense, well at the moment anyway. If we can get a someone to do this and is a bit of a battling ram (wont be bullied by the likes of costa, bony etc) that will suit us. Then again, I am no coach. :)

30 Dec 2014 12:36:25
GDS, He has played 205 games for Dortmund and missed 85 through injury. So he has almost missed one third of Dortmunds games since he has joined them.

As for where I got the info from just type "Mats Hummels injury history" into google and see what comes up.

Shappy
You are saying that hummels has been injured 479 days in the last 5 year and missed 85 games.
Yet he has only missed 44 league games in 5 years which is an average of 9 games a season ( not all through injury )
Not bad when you consider your number of 479 days would mean he has been injured over a year
He has played a similar amount of games over the last 5 year as terry and cahill .
Your numbers don't add up

Mre
Over the last 5 year league games played.
Smalling 77
Evans 100
Hummels 146.
146 league games over 5 years isn't that bad
If you look at vidic and ferdinand over a 5 year period from 2006 when they where both first choice
Vidic played 150
Ferdy played 142.

Terry and cahill have played 149 and 150 over the last 5 year .
Hummels is par for the course on 146 imo

30 Dec 2014 13:36:20
Jred I still wouldn't buy him. Ankle, knee and back injuries tend to be reoccuring and degenerative. I think for the money we should look elsewhere.

Its all very well saying he's played the same amount of games as terry but would you sign terry? I know I wouldn't.

Mre
I would sign terry if he was 26, the same age as hummels.
Would you not ?

30 Dec 2014 14:29:09
No as I've never rated terry. The second most over rated English player of the premier league era.

Mre
I think i know the answer but whos the most over rated english player

Haha Jred, I know the answer as well :p

Germany have less league games than England as well.

Terry is not overrated IMO, just wondering who is 1st on your list?

30 Dec 2014 16:05:35
I imagine it will be a certain captain of club and country who will break goalscoring records for both before he retires. Imagine if he was as good as he was rated.

Come on GDS, Did you not see he had a poor first touch in the 22nd minute of our last game? Goals are over-rated anyway mate ;)

Deeps.

30 Dec 2014 17:06:38
Actually the most over rated English player in the premier league era is Gerrard, thought that would have been obvious.

Whilst I have no time for Rooney off the pitch I will support him on the pitch whilst he is doing the job we pay him for. I think he's been very good this season and can still kick on another gear. Maybe one thing van gaal has got right eh?

Jred, He joined Dortmund first on loan in the summer of 2008 and then permanently in the summer of 2009. That means he has been at Dortmund for 6 years, not 5 so i believe it is your numbers that don't add up.

As for his injury history it is very easy to look up if you want to find it, just google it and you will find it on transfermarkt, he has 2 pages of injury history to browse through.

You'll find he has had ankle ligament injuries on several occasions and he suffers with them, he has also had a couple of knee injuries, as well as back problems. These are all injuries that are reoccurring and degenerative and will only become more of an issue as he gets older. Bayern let him leave because the feeling within the youth set up was that he was injury prone. Now there is not facts or figures for injuries suffered at youth level but for a club such as Bayern who spend a lot of money on youth development and sport science to let a player with Hummels talent leave based on the fact the club thought him injury prone form his time in youth football gives you a little insight in to what could well be a much bigger problem long term for him.

Shappy
in everyone of my post i have said over the last 5 seasons which is since he signed in 2009 so my numbers are fine.
bayern have tried to buy him back several times so know they made a mistake selling him for 4 mill.
The lad is only 26 years old is already one of the best cbs in the world and imo would fit the lvg style perfectly .

Lets be honest you started with "he is to slow "
Then it was " lapse in concentration " now its injury prone, what's next bad hair style .

we are talking about the same 26 year old matt hummels world cup winner and one of the best cb in the world . Valued at 40 mill + ( which i think is high but if luiz goes for 50 ).

For the record i would consider alderweireld from southamopton

31 Dec 2014 00:06:56
Well, what good are half the figures he actually first joined Dortmund on loan in January 2008 so he's been at the club for nearly 7 years. If we are to judge him then surely we need to judge him on his whole career rather than part of it.

For the record I still think he is too slow and has lapses in concentration, that's not to say he isn't a great player as that would be foolish. A blind man could tell you he is a very very good player. But in my opinion he is a great player but one who i'm not totally convinced is suited to the EPL, for one he lacks pace to the extent that he makes Terry look like Usain Bolt, and he has lapses in concentration which would be punished more in the end to end contest that is the EPL. Then he has shown a susceptability to picking up injuries and has had several significant and troublsome injuries that could crop up again down the line. So he could easily be described as fragile, so is the most physical league in europe really the best place for him? These are issues that for me could be worth a gamble on if say he was available for 15-20m but he will cost more than twice that amount so I am left feeling that a move for him no matter how talented he is as being foolish and too big a gamble.

I think you are way off to be honest and the fact the ed has confirmed united and lvg have a big interest in him would suggest i'm not the only one .
Also the lads only 26 so looking at his injury record over 5 years is fine by me .
And his games played over the last 5 year stack up against other top cbs so i don't see a problem.

By the way " makes terry look like usan bolt " ?
I think you have been watching the wrong player

31 Dec 2014 07:37:27
What a stupid comment, LvG thinks Strootman is one of the best midfielders in the world and really likes him so I guess Strootman must be world class and would transform our team into an unbeatable force. Just because the club are interested in a player it doesn't mean that he can't flop if he signed for the club. Djemba-djemba, Kleberson, Bebe, Prunier and Tiabi were all really liked by the club at one point, one of them was even a world cup winner when he signed.

My opinion of Hummels is that he is a great player, but one who looks like he is running through treacle and a player who at times switches off leading to goal scoring chances being conceeded. I also think the number of injuries he has had and the type of injuries he has had should be a concern. I had similar concerns over Hargreaves and RvP with one of them I was proven right and with the other it doesn't appear ti be the problem I thought it would be. All this has lead me to the conclusion that for our club to invest the best part of 70m in wages and transfer fee for Hummels to be a poor choice.

But for you to argue I must be wrong because LvG likes him is possibly the poorest arguement I have seen you present on this forum. Especially when you yourself have openly questioned LvG's judgement on this page.

Ramos is by far the better defender, leader, organizer, tackler, quicker. It is a no brainer. I wouldn't touch hummels with a barge poll, and at the price quoted, will be the biggest flop. Stay well clear lvg.