Manchester United Banter Archive January 30 2012

30 Jan 2012 22:44:22
What I would love to see if we did have some money to spend in the summer:

DDG (fingers crossed)
Smalling Jones Vidic Fryers
M'Vila
Goetze Cleverly
Nani Hazard
Rooney

We would be unbeatable with the this team. The back-line is solid and strong. We would have a brilliant, solid defensive midfielder who can play football. Two wonderful , young, energetic, visionary and skilled attacking midfielders who can combine as a midfield triangle with M'Vila, or as an attacking triangle with their respective wingers and Rooney. Nani and Hazard have the speed and skill so one of them would always be helping Rooney, be available for their full-backs, or helping midfield. Rooney would thrive with these players behind him, and they would be so attacking he would also find them even ahead of him which he would love to see.
They are also so young they could be together for years and years.

Sell/Retire;
Giggs, Scholes, Berbatov, Owen, Park, Ferdinand, Kuszczak, Macheda, Bebe.
How much money would we save with all these players gone?

If only!!


J Bones.

30 Jan 2012 20:27:41
30th jan 2012, the quietest transfer window I've ever seen. Are we still the biggest club in the world? Glazers have wrecked the greatest football club ever.

Joe.a

30 Jan 2012 18:54:02
I have to say I am hugely disappointed in this non active transfer window.I know scholes is special and was a super player,but to just make him our only signing or re-signing of the window is pathetic.it reeks of desperation.Everyone knows we r not too bad in de league but struggling to put teams away,knocked out in champions league,league cup and fa cup the way we did was a disgrace.Everyone knows we need at least 2 mf and a striker.
it seams to me Fergie will say we hava great squad,there's no cause for concern.yeah that's why you brought scholes back Fergie..
Maybe Ryan Giggs will retire this year and decide to come back in January 2013 eh...Or maybe Ole gunner will come back aswell or Roy Keane eh.he would probly do a better job DM at his age now then what we have at the moment..
F**king joke...

30 Jan 2012 16:55:34
James Milner £26 Million
Gareth Barry £12 Million
Joleon Lescott £22 Million
Wayne Bridge £12 Million
Shaunn Wright-Phillips £22 Million
Jordan Henderson £16 Million
Stuart Downing £20 Million
Andy Carroll £35 Million
Glen Johnson £17.5 Million

These are all English players and the prices they have gone for in the past 5-6 years.
The list above is the reason why SAF is saying there is no value in the market. Would anyone on here genuinely take any of these players?
People will now start going on about buying this Spanish player and that German player but because clubs have agreed to a quota of 'home grown' players this isn't as easy to do.
So when you look at what SAF is doing, we now have a squad which is made up of at least half english players, but these are going to be the best group of english players with the exception of certain players in positions, Joe Hart, Daniel Sturridge.
The tricky thing is balancing 'home grown' players and still achieving succes. Personally I think SAF is doing well and is also preparing us for long term success with the nucleus of the team being 'home grown'. You also have to take into account the new financial fair play ruling so if we are to spend money then we have to justify it and not just buy for buying sake!
Yes we all know our midfield needs addressing but it has to be done correctly and not be a knee jerk reaction to a below par season in terms of perfromances so far. People will also say SAF knew we needed the midfield sorting and should of signed Sneijder in the summer but i'll think you'll find, and maybe ed's or syd can clarify this, SAF tried very hard to get him but was not prepared to bow down to his wage demands which I support.
Anyway, I just hope people will stop being negative and getting upset that we are not paying Millions and Millions on just anybody, yes SAF has made mistakes but so has all managers. The man's been in charge for 25+ years and counting and built the club up, he's not going to just let that crumble whilst he's in charge and after he retires regardless to whether it's the Glazer's or anyone else in charge!

Ports

30 Jan 2012 16:48:26
no-one will be brought in this window.
clear out of dead wood this summer, no suprises leaving i think.

Berbatov
Owen
Macheda
Diouf (gone)
Giggs (retired)
Scholes (retired again)
Evans
Fabio
Park

Think we will look at 2 defenders out of.

Dede, Samba, Dann, Agger, Clyne, Shawcross, Jagielka,K.Walker.

2 or 3 midfielders out of.

Ozil, Zaha, Sneijder, Modric, Shaquiri, Honda, Moutinho, De Rossi, L.Diarra, Johnson, Rodwell.

1striker out of.

Benzema, Llorente, Cavani, Ba, Higuain, Pato, Hulk, Van Persie.

obviously these are all personal preference and not rumours but i see no reason why we couldnt get these type of players.

most likely of those

----------------De Gea--------------------
Jones-----Shawcross------Vidic--------Evra

Nani-------Cleverly------Sneidjer-----Young

----------------------Rooney-------------

---------------Benzema------------------

subs:

Lindegaard
Smalling
Rodwell
Hernandez
Anderson
Wellbeck
Jagielka


ahhh daring to dream!

p.s im not saying that the guys ive picked for that team are the best of what ive listed but possibly the most attainable.

30 Jan 2012 14:44:27
Just to ask you guys a question. I posted on the liverpool page that their fans should be ashamed and punished by the FA for the way they booed Evra for reporting suarez. What do you guys think.

The response I have so far cam from the liverpool Ed (Ed19) who claimed it was no different to man utd booing gerrard at old trafford or arsenal booing there own players. Was anyone else as annoyed as me by this?

30 Jan 2012 12:34:45
And how many people were saying "If he is good enough, he is old enough" about De Gea?!
Simply not ready yet, although will be class.
I can't help but think Lindegaard was brought in as number 1 but the hoo haa around De Gea has helped Anders slip in.
Although De Gea will be class, I can't see him spending 10 years plus with us.
I think he is an 'appreciating asset', who's value will go up in a few years, with hopefully a big spanish club moving for him.
Lindegaard has really impressed me looking at where he has come from.

Whistler

30 Jan 2012 12:14:40
Interesting piece ........ I do not agree with all of the points raised, but most are spot on......

ps. sorry it is LONG

The Struggles of Manchester United:

The current malaise of Manchester United can be traced to July 2009 when they secured the 16 million pound transfer of Antonio Valencia from Wigan, apparently a replacement for the recently departed Cristiano Ronaldo who joined Real Madrid in an 80 million pound deal mere weeks earlier. Valencia had proven to be a good player on a poor team, and was certainly Premier League quality, but there was never a doubt that he could not replace the Portuguese attacker, a fact admitted by the club and its officials. This isn’t Valencia’s fault, as he is a more traditional winger than Ronaldo, and he has shown to be a valuable squad member, even filling in at RB during recent injury crisis. But it was a huge step back on the pitch, and the remaining funds from the Ronaldo sale disappeared into the Glazer family’s bank account and interest payments rather than improve the on-field product.
It’s said that no team or player ever stays the same; either you are getting better or you are getting worse. I don’t know if thats infallible, but it certainly seems to be true at the moment in the Premier League. While teams like Manchester City and Tottenham have been active in the transfer market in an attempt to improve their teams, clubs like United and Arsenal seem to be under the belief that the shirts on their backs will win matches rather than the men wearing the shirts.

Arsenal under Arsene Wenger seems to have created the blueprint for depletion that Sir Alex is currently following. Following Arsenal’s success last decade, Wenger seemed content to let the team grow organically, with young players and value purchases attempting to fill the gaps left by world-class footballers like Thierry Henry, Denis Bergkamp and Robert Pires. Years have passed and Arsenal have yet to achieve any level of success with these new squads. Granted, Robin Van Persie and Cesc Fabregas have proven to be elite players worthy of replacing the former Arsenal greats. But even Fabregas was convinced to leave after years of futility and it’s only a matter of time before Van Persie starts considering his career path and whether he’ll ever have another chance at silverware with Arsenal. Meanwhile, a string of mid-priced “value” buys have come and gone with little impact and less sell-on value. Names like Eduardo, Chamakh, Arshavin and Bendtner have shown exactly how far the drop-off in talent is between the teams of last decade who vied for trophies and the current edition which hopes to have a shot at the Champions League for next season. Again and again, Wenger has refused to spend money on elite players and instead tries to find value in the 10-15 million pound range. Granted, Arsenal doesn’t have the budget that other big clubs have, but they have spent many millions in recent years with not much to show for it.


Manchester United have followed the same method, and seemingly have obtained similar results. They have lost a few top players, replaced them with “value” players and underprepared youngsters, and then acted surprised when the quality of their performances dropped. Many will point out that they won the PL title last season and advanced to the CL final for the 3rd time in 4 years, and they are correct. However last year’s PL title was not a result of a fantastic United squad but rather the lack of a legitimate title contender to push United. As for the CL, while getting to the final was a nice accomplishment, United were run off the pitch by Barcelona in their last two appearances in the final, the difference in quality obvious to all watching. Except for Sir Alex Ferguson, apparently.
Sir Alex’s favorite response to queries about transfer policy is to claim there is “no value in the transfer market”. He says this as if it’s either his personal money being used to buy players or as if he’s not trying to win titles, but win titles with bargain purchases that will help contribute to his legend and reputation. Due to his stubbornness as well as his enormous ego, Ferguson appears to be the last one aware of the problems with the club and squad. He has approved a series of purchases that illustrate that penny-pinching and “value” have replaced quality as the attribute most important to United. Names like Obertan, Diouf, Manucho, Bebe and De Laet have been trumpeted upon their arrival, only to be quietly pushed out the back door as the club hopes supporters won’t notice another transfer failure. Bigger purchases such as Javier Hernandez, Ashley Young, Valencia, Chris Smalling and Phil Jones have done little to improve the quality of the starting XI. Smalling and Jones are both young and full of potential, with Jones a certain future captain for both United and England, but neither appears ready at this moment to be a cornerstone of United’s back four, and certainly would not give teams like Manchester City, Barcelona or Real Madrid any worries whatsoever. Young, similarly to Valencia, is a player most Premier League clubs would love to have, and he was the best player on a decent Aston Villa side. But there is a huge difference between mid-table clubs and those vying for a Champions League spot, and Young is a prime example of how big the gulf is between the two and how few players who succeed mid-table have the tools to also do so for a top club. All of these players mentioned, Young included, were purchased for less than 20 millions pounds, with most in the 8-14 million pound range. Essentially, if you pay middle of the road prices, you obtain middle of the road talent.

Let’s compare this to Manchester City, who have been building a world-class squad for the past few years. They reached a new level last season, competing for a title, qualifying for the Champions League and winning silverware for the first time in decades. They had spent hundreds of millions of pounds buying players like Yaya Toure, James Milner, Gareth Barry, Vincent Kompany, Joleon Lescott, David Silva and Carlos Tevez. However, heading into the 2011-2012 season, City refused to be content with their squad and instead moved for Sergio Aguero and Samir Nasri, both in moves costing in excess of 25 million pounds. They knew that if you’re not improving, you’re getting worse, and they knew that despite having depth in their squad, that it is the quality of the first XI players and not numbers 12-25 who typically make the difference in the biggest of matches, where clubs match their best against each other. A deep squad is needed in modern football with its multiple competitions, but at the end of the day, you cannot play 25 men at once, and it doesn’t matter how good the players left out of the squad are if the 11 on the pitch aren’t as good as the other squad’s 11. City know this and have built a team capable of putting world class players across the pitch, even in the case of a few injuries. Meanwhile, United have the deepest 25 we have witnessed in quite some time. Pundits were crowing at season’s beginning about how United could field two teams that could challenge for the title and a third that could take the league cup. However, the pundits were forgetting that while United might have the best 25, City had obtained the best XI.

It is in this context that many United supporters find themselves unsurprised by the roller-coaster campaign that the club has experienced thus far. Injuries have ravaged the squad, but only Sir Alex seems stubborn enough to think this is the cause of United’s struggles. Even with a fully fit squad, Sir Alex doesn’t have the talent available to him that Roberto Mancini can access for Manchester City. Don’t agree? How many United players make it into a City best XI? Two (Rooney/Vidic)? Three maybe? The fact remains that United have a few world-class players while City has a team of world-class players, a stark contrast to say, five years ago. United supporters are left hoping that young players with potential develop into world-class players and that mid-level talent somehow raise their playing level beyond what they’ve been in the past. Both of these are low-probability options, and certainly not a scenario that will concern the big European clubs who have the best players in the world, in their primes, playing with others at their level.
Sir Alex’s efforts to rebuild the team have been hindered in some part by the slow, drawn-out conclusion to the golden generation consisting of players like Ryan Giggs, Paul Scholes and Gary Neville. While it’s admirable that each of these loyal servants to the club have been willing to continue to do whatever they can to contribute, the result has instead been a gradual decline in quality and a hinderance to the development or discovery of legitimate replacements for these veterans. Tom Cleverley has shown glimpses of being able to replace Scholes, but this is far from certain, and both LW and RB remain question marks heading forward for the club. There is cover in depth, but not quality replacements worthy of the United Starting XI. The best clubs have a strong idea of what their ideal XI looks like, with squad players able to fill in at times due to injury, fatigue or suspension, but their best players play and rotation is done out of necessity instead of ego as it often appears in Ferguson’s case, as he is constantly guilty of over-managing and tampering with a squad for no reason.
In the current squad, hardly a player can feel as if they are worthy of starting for a world-class squad. Rooney is elite, but beyond that United supporters can really only hope for glimpses of elite quality, rather than a constant display. Nani is immensely talented, but he has a head filled with rocks, and if he hits 10% of his crosses accurately it’s a miracle. Valencia is a one-trick pony who is useless when matched up with a fullback who can equal his pace. Ashley Young is a versatile player who can line up on either wing or through the center of the park, but he serves as the epitome of the good mid-table player who is neither talented nor consistent enough for a world-class squad. Ji Sung-Park plays with heart and determination, but his skill level is far below the best European and South American players and while his endurance is top-notch, his speed and strength are certainly not. The strike-force is yet another example of mediocrity and Ferguson’s willingness to settle for good but not great. Rooney aside, United are able to rely on strikers with serious flaws and shortcomings. Berbatov may be the most technical player on the planet, but he is also the laziest. He claims that’s his languid style, but there are plenty of smooth players who also contribute effort and sacrifice, two things Berbatov does not. He also destroys United’s counterattacking style with his lack of pace and tendency to hold the ball for long periods of time, allowing defenders to get back and the counterattack to falter. Javier Hernandez has proven a decent buy, especially with his goal return last season, but as he’s played more his flaws have become evident. Chicharito may be the best predatory striker since Ruud van Nistelrooy and is world-class inside the six-yard box, but he may be the worst footballer in England anywhere else on the pitch. He cannot hold the ball in possession, making him a liability when the ball is cleared from the defensive zone. He cannot pass the ball, which makes him a liability on the counter attack and in the offensive third, and he does not have any quality in his strikes from outside the penalty box. In short, he is one-dimensional and has not improved on these qualities since he arrived at United, which takes an otherwise promising youngster and casts real doubt on whether he will ever develop into a great footballer instead of just a poacher. Danny Wellbeck looks like a talent possessing technique, athleticism, pace and strength, but unless he develops over the next few seasons, there’s no guarantee he’ll become world-class. Federico Macheda hasn’t developed at all since his Aston Villa goal and Michael Owen might as well spend training days at the racetrack as his presence in the squad is as ironic as it is bewildering.
In midfield, options are not much better. Michael Carrick has been valuable for United since his arrival, but he was slow when he was purchased and as he approaches the end stage of his career, he is a liability both in his defensive abilities as well as his lack of attacking prowess. Darren Fletcher is a valuable squad player, but he is not talented enough to be a legitimate option for the starting XI. Anderson has divided opinion amongst supporters, some wanting him out of the club altogether. He certainly hasn’t lived up to the initial hype, he has become a legitimate box-to-box CM, albeit with an astounding lack of ability in the final third. Darron Gibson was set to be sold this summer and certainly will be gone in six months time. Ryan Giggs was never going to become a quality CM, although he has performed admirably these last few seasons while filling in at a position for which he isn’t well suited. This leaves Tom Cleverley, the most recent addition to the first team, and the newest target for hype and expectations. His performances in the first few weeks of the season gave hope, but his inability to remain healthy as well as his brief track record ensure that he cannot be considered a sure thing to become United’s long-term solution in central midfield. Phil Jones is a center back, regardless of how often Sir Alex plugs him into a midfield role. Ferguson decided last summer not to pursue options such as Nasri or Inter Milan’s Wesley, a decision that looked foolish at the time and now appears to be closer to insanity. Recent weeks have seen United’s midfield overrun by teams like Newcastle, Blackburn and even Swansea City, a prospect that certainly will give confidence to their Manchester rivals.

Defense could be considered the area where United have the most talent and depth, however even this unit has been decimated, by injury as well as form. Nemanja Vidic is one of the top defenders in the world, but a knee ligament injury has removed him from the equation for the foreseeable future. Rio Ferdinand has been healthy enough this season to get on the pitch for stretches. Unfortunately, this has only provided him with an opportunity to show how far he’s fallen since his peak, consistently getting run past by younger players and outmuscled by those with more conviction. Jonny Evans has never been, and will never be good enough for a top side, although he no doubt would be valued by lesser Premier League club. Phil Jones and Chris Smalling appear to be real prospects for the future, especially Jones, but they are not yet seasoned enough to be counted upon week in and week out during a title push. Same goes for the Da Silva twins, who arrived with aplomb as precocious teenagers, and despite showing plenty of Brazilian flair have not developed at all in recent years and still look remarkably naive and reckless. Patrice Evra remains a top LB in world football, but his defensive lapses have grown far too common and he is routinely beaten for lofted passes into the penalty area. He is also getting older and cannot be expected to return to his previous form.
Finally, United’s goalkeeping situation might be the most promising while simultaneously being the most uncertain. David Da Gea was purchased as the heir to Edwin van der Saar, and has shown glimpses of his future as both United and Spain’s number one, but he is only 21 years old, is slight of frame, and will probably need a few years to grow into a position routinely dominated by those entering their 30s, not their 20s. Anders Lindegaard has been a massively pleasant surprise, proving to be a more than adequate backup, but his presence will only make it more difficult for De Gea to gain in confidence and develop into the player he has the potential to become.

Meanwhile, as this chaotic period in the squad has developed, promising youngsters coming through the youth ranks have yet to see their opportunities appear. Zeke Fryers has made a few impressive appearances as a substitute at LB, but both Paul Pogba and Ravel Morrison have yet to be given more than a token appearance despite the considerable reputations and expectations they have earned in recent years. Both are out of contract in the summer and have been rumored to interest teams like Manchester City and Barcelona. One would hope that during such a chaotic time, perhaps United could at least benefit by developing these potential stars.

Manchester United are at a serious crossroads, with the supposed rebuilding of the club in tatters. Starting XIs are not a referendum on who is the best player at each position, but rather who is set for a rotation and who is absent from Sir Alex’s doghouse. The recent benching of Wayne Rooney for a bad training session likely cost United three points against Blackburn is a prime example of Sir Alex’s obsession with his own superiority and power overwhelming his better judgement regarding the welfare of the team. His transfer policy comes across as equal parts ego and stubbornness, with the added bonus of treating supporters as if they’re stupid. Ferguson is an absolute legend, with a resume no manager can hope to match, but your resume plays no part in a football match, just as a huge bag of money will never score a goal like Ronaldo. Ferguson’s job is to put the best possible squad on the pitch each week, not to run defensive spin for the Glazer family or to make excuses as to why he buys for value instead of quality. These issues would have come out sooner, but last year’s weak Premier League competition and a few decent performances in the Champions League have allowed Sir Alex to hide the enormous flaws in his side. Recent losses have put the spotlight on Ferguson, and supporters can only hope this will convince him to leave his ego at the door and buy the quality of player we need to improve and compete, regardless of price.

oxred

30 Jan 2012 09:34:37
You have to laugh at the sad sack from Anfield. Kenny believes "abuse for Suarez is a great problem for the game", but I guess abuse towards Patrice is just good banter eh? Cretin.

Sydney!