Manchester United Banter Archive January 30 2014

30 Jan 2014 22:45:49
Not MU related but a debate I've had with a few mates, who do you think is a more all round gifted player out of Suarez or Aguero?

Very close but I choose Suarez.

Has to be aguero for me for the power

Techinally I would say aguero but as a whole package suarez by a mile for me, some of his instinctive of the cuff brilliance is freighting, imagine how many he would have scored this year in man citys team, dosnt bare thinking about

Hard one! I think we should put both in front of a firing squad and who ever wets themselves first loses!

30 Jan 2014 22:09:28
Kate F I did say the best team I had seen play in real life, never saw Roberto Carlos live. Yes on TV but not pitchside.

Sorry GB62 didn't read it the way you wrote it my humble apologise

30 Jan 2014 21:17:35
Hi guys, some relief from the emptiness that is the transfer 'window'.
There is a very good and interesting article in guardian, about the murky world of third party ownership of players!
From the article it suggests chelsea are up to their necks in it, a certain Peter Kenyon and the man with his fingers in all the pies, super agent Jorge Mendes.

30 Jan 2014 20:23:47
Best team of individuals I have seen in real life
Goalkeeper Peter Schmiechel
Left back Ashley Cole
Centre Backs Bobby Moore & Franz Beckenbauer
Right Back Danny McGrain
Midfield Paul Scholes, Graham Souness, Roy Keane
Forwards Pele, George Best, Ronaldo (current)

Ashley cole should not be amongst these great players a good left back yes but no Roberto Carlos lol

I'll do a list of my favourite world class players who didn't exactly set the world a lite here but either withered away or went onto great things!
Goalkeeper -Jim lieghton
Back four-lee. Martin, pique, shawcross, blackmore
Midfield -phelan, Webb, platt
Forwards -lee Sharpe, rossi, forlan
Veron too obvious but I liked all these players

Nice.

Peter Sch.
Rio Ferdinand (age 26)
P.Maldini
L.Thuram
F.cannavaro
E.Davids
Z.Zidane
L.Matthaus
Ronaldo cr7
Ronaldo r9
R. Baggio

30 Jan 2014 17:23:26
Im.a blooded liverpool fan syd but yes though talented he is BR is not the best PL manager imo. Saying that if fans say Pellegrini, you could argue his job is easier because of the players he has to work with. You couldsay wenger.for consistentcy but when was the last time he won a trophy? Though i'm not a fan of the man, i'd have to say mourinho based on results and getting the best out if his players.

Agreed. Criteria for the title is ill defined.

Mourinho is the best for grinding out results. Wenger is the best for developing youngsters. Martinez plays some of the most attractive football in the league. Pardew is good for bringing in players with potential. Rodgers is very good tactically. SAF was the best for getting the very best out of his players.

Moyes? I'm not so sure he's the best at anything.

I'm also undecided when it comes to Pellegrini. Given the vast array of talent he has at his fingertips I honestly think it would be harder for him to fail than succeed. I suppose with that comes pressure - and he's seemingly handling that rather well.

I think its easy to underestimate the skill it takes to manage a team with so many superstars and big egos like City have. On the face of it, it would seem easy to manage a team with so much talent., but Mancini didn't do it nearly as well as Pellegrini has done. And he has done it in such a short time too. Despite all the big bucks spent on players in the summer, I think Pellegrini has been City's best signing.

Thanks for all the responses. It seemed like a reasonable question to ask on a non-football day while there is also no concrete transfer news - especially the day after Liverpool and Man City had decimated quality opponents while Chelsea could only manage a draw against West Ham.

It will be interesting to see if Moyes can insert himself into the argument after he has had the opportunity to rebuild the squad and its tactics according to his vision. Let's hope that Mourinhos vision which consigned Chelsea's previously most valuable player to United, will be the first step towards in his staking that claim.

Do not agree with wenger bringing through young players. Most we're bought and Fergie has miles better record not just who played for the first team but for players who ended up playing for other prem teams.

Pancho - I'm not talking strictly academy players - but young players in general. Cesc, Wiltshere and Ramsay vs. Cleverley, Welbeck and Gibson?

Tbf - I suppose you could add Ronaldo to SAF's list - but aside from him and Rooney the last great players we developed were the class of '92.

30 Jan 2014 16:55:49
Zaha has just completed his loan move to Cardiff according to the daily fail's " ". I suspect if Nani moves on today or tomorrow, then we will see one or two players arrive tomorrow.

Zaha, Fabio, Anderson & Nani out from the first team.

Just Mata in. So you would expect one more? Surely? If we see anything regarding Buttner going out on loan, that will be a good indication that a LB will sign.

I fully expect a CMer with outside chance of a LB.

Lifetime:
Robbie Baggio
Lothar Matthaus
Ronaldo R9
Ronaldo CR7

Today:
Iniesta is very clever.
Aguero

30 Jan 2014 14:59:59
Saw a reply to a post down the page about favorite jerseys, thought I'd bring it up to the top and get a discussion going (for two reasons, keep our minds away from the silliest two days of silly season, and to give our poor eds a break from answering pointless questions!).

My favorite jersey from throughout the years was the 93-95 away one, Umbro were the makers and Sharp (what ever happened them?!) were the sponsors. It was the first United jersey I ever had, too big for me even when I was watching the 1999 Champions League final as a seven year old! Still have it (bit small now mind!) and will certainly be keeping it!

In terms of home jerseys, I was always quite partial to the 2006/07 one with the white v neck. Probably the last time we had a fully functioning midfield, maybe that's why I like it! what's your favorites guys?!

The white away kit from I'm guessing it would be 98/99 my very first kit and one of my faves by far. The images of giggsy after scoring THAT goal against Arsenal just show why that top was the best!

Adidas 1990-91 (I think) was quite groovy.

{Ed007's Note - The 1994-96 Umbro top with the stadium embossed in it was a cracker but my favourite would be the half green/gold one from 92/93(?). That was one of the nicest football tops ever and not just out of Utd ones.}

Oh and Adidas 1986 or 1988 was quite smart too.

My favourite is probably the white from our Cup Winners Cup victory in 91. The memory of Hughes rounding the keeper and slamming the ball home from an angle, is one I will never forget. Have to say, that is one of my all time favourite goals too.

My favourite top of all time is the Italian diadora top of 1990 wc, like a silk shirt. I'll have to stop this reminiscing now before I don my gazelles, do a few electro arm waves and a couple of back spins.

Remember the 01/02 season, 3rd kit, white, reversible gold shirt made by Umbro and sponsored by Vodafone. Great shirt.

2005 black away kit, sponsored by Vodafone. That highbury night . still gives me goosebumps.

Deeps.

I was actually looking at that green and gold one earlier ed. The one with strings at the top. Think it was something to commemorate 100 years since changing from Newton Heath or something like that.

{Ed007's Note - That's the one mate, it was a thing of beauty! Speaking of strips, has anyone seen the new Shamrock Rovers GK strip? It's bizarre to say the least:

http://goo.gl/4vpJXY

White admiral kit with 3 black lines down the left hand side. The sight of Jimmy Greenhoff stooping to head past Clemence in mind in the 79 semi final replay comes to mind. Used to wear for games at school . Classic kit.

Green and Gold with laced neck from the early 90's was class. Had one with Cantona on the back. Worth a small fortune on ebay now!
Home kit from 99 treble season was very classy too.

The 1977 white away shirt with the 4 black lines down one side, adidas copied it in the 80s with 3 black stripes and the black 94 away kit.

Big john o'shea with a beauty of a chip over stuart taylor (i think), great game, lovely kit!

Bond picked out my two favs. The green and gold was such a bold choice at the time and the stadium embossed home kit was fecking beautiful. I don't think I have really liked a kit for almost 15 years. I feel they are all too generic and unimaginitive nowadays.

Supasub. Backspins! lmaof :)

It has to be my first United kit when I was 6, which would have been the 86/87 season. I loved that kit.

Good memories.

Favourite Utd one: green and gold one

Favourite Scotland one: Euro 96 tartan one

Favourite ever: Mexico WC 98 with the Aztec head on it

That Shamrock keepers top is very UFC.

Favourite Kit is the UTD Green and Gold, never owned it but always liked it.

Hehe Betty, in all honesty if I did try it now I would probably be out of action for a couple of weeks.

Pancho and midfield general nailed it. Got it first time around as a kid, and the only football top my wife ever let me buy as an adult!

Some things from the 80's and early 90's are so funny to think about now. Breakdancing, body popping, mullets, perms, shoulder pads, the list is endless. Great times though. I'M 40 now, but the late 80's and early 90's were the best years ever. Still wear my Gazelles and blue suede Samba's too!
Backspins lol. Priceless :)

Admiral 79-80 (don't think it changed throughout 70, s) loved it!

Thread of the day. Especially away from the final 48hrs transfer deadline. I'm 37, I remember going clubbing in an AC Milan shirt 1990 (I think) with Mediolanum sponsor. Thought I was the dogs kajangas in it. There was a couple of years late 80's or early 90's when it was very cool to wear football shirts (especially Italian ones) clubbing.
Mind you bum bags and troop trainers were also groovy. When they come back in ( and I think it may be sooner than I think) I will blow the dust off.

77 white away defo had 3 black stripes not 4. Don't remember Adidas doing it anyway. Before that as well I liked the yellow and blue one.

Supasub, love this thread too. Could go on all evening. Maybe after transfer window is over we should do a new thread on favourite 80's things? So much to talk about.

Brendan81 I agree.

Supasub I have that Italy shirt #10 signed by r. Baggio. It's awesome.

30 Jan 2014 14:21:09
Im a liverpool fan, BR is a talented young manager because he has a style of play in mind. Relegation teams, for managers its about tactics more than free flowing football, i.e westham at chelsea. The game imo is evolving more.towards technique and good football. Look at stoke, huges was brought in to improve stokes style and Southampton play some great high.pressing attacking football. Man city had great attacking.players last season but werr subdued by mancini now look at the amount of goals they score. Tbh i. Thought united would seek a kloop and improve their.play. You can have great attacking players but you need a managet to have a style of play to make the most out of their potential

I'm a liverpool fan too, and I actually disagree with you. I think Moyes has been working hard to try and instil a 'good' style of football with some pretty poor players.

SAF achieved miracles, that's why he's widely regarded as the best manager ever in England. So comparing Moyes to him is unfair.

I would say that if Moyes had spent a bit more in the summer, flushed a few of the lesser players out and brought some fresh ones in, I think we'd be looking at a completely different league table right now. Having said that, the Mata signing will definitely improve Utd.

So In summary, I believe Moyes has been trying to play attractive football but he's been very restricted due to a few of his players. I think we'll still see United in the champions league next season.

It's simply far too early to judge. You can only judge a manager on his last season. And it wasn't a great season for BR last season. 7th with no silverware. There are many managers in all the leagues that want to implement a certain way of playing football. It's what trophies they win that ultimately defines how good they are. If BR finishes outside the top four again this season and gets the sack, takes over at Swansea again, will he still be regarded as a top manager by some? Football is a fickle game and it's simply too early for people to say.

Sorry fellow red but you need to read that again, sir alex was.never mentioned and I never discussed moyes, that's another topic for another day.

Bizarre!

30 Jan 2014 13:31:55
Iced in in Atlanta! Can't get to work, so filling the time with speculation and aneurysm inducing fretting about the transfer window. So I'm looking for a few distractions.

Yesterday I suggested Brendan Rodgers was the best manager in the EPL at the moment. This proposition was not met with unanimous approval! I'd be interested in hearing who y'all would give that tribute to, if not him. And also on what criteria you are basing your judgement.

How can a manager be "the best manager at the moment", that is a ridiculous statement. Do you really need anyone to explain why?

Well, on medals and accolades alone their is only Mourinho by some distance.

WHAT HAS HE WON?NOTHING.
WHATS HE going to WIN? NOTHING.

Not that good.If he didn't have Suarez, they would be nowhere near fourth.

I would love to know what you are basing your judgement on? The fact they are in 4th place? (three teams doing better than them). Or the way he has wasted money on Aspas, Alberto, Moses, Assaidi, Illori, Cissokho, Borini & Allen? Or is it that he cannot keep his trap shut for more than five minutes, moaning about his employers? Is it that they are playing good football? Because Pellegrini's City are playing better football, Wenger's Arsenal are playing better. So yes, please humour us? Why is BR the best EPL manager "at the moment".

My view will not be a popular one, but for me it is Arsene Wenger. He has always got his teams playing the right way, regardless of personnel. Is a master of helping upcoming youngsters realizing their potential. If he had some financial backing from the frugal Arsenal board, they would have been better. He is a decent man manager as well. (Fabregas/Father). Brendan is not fit to tie his laces.

Deeps.

Intuitively it would be Pellegrini but there are much harder teams to manage and coach than City. Right now? I'd say Mourinho, Wenger and Martinez.

Good question I would say BR is up there to be honest.
Jose for me is the stand out manager in the league Southampton manager has done a great job and city are playing some great football .

Pardew. simply for calling Pellegrini a f*****g old c**t!;)

Forgot about Martinez I think he has the potential to be a top manager .
On a side note who would people choose between moyes and Rodgers and why

Deeps, AW is doing well, but for me Pellegrini has taken City to another level. Very good manager. Jose is of course a very good manager, AW is a very good manager, Martinez have Everton playing exceptionally well although injuries have affected them recently. BR is doing an okay job at Liverpool, many pool fans still not 100% convinced. I find Peashooter's post very odd indeed.

Mourinho or Wenger by far for me. I'm not sure who I would pick out of the two, both are proven winners. Ask me in again in a few years and I hope to say Moyes

There are polite ways to disagree with someone - do please try to use them. That being said:

We will see how Rodgers's time at Liverpool turns out, but I would say this:

1. Mourinho and Pellegrini both took on teams with apparently limitless budgets, which tends to obscure their abilities. If I had to choose between these two I'd go for Pellegrini.
2. Wenger would be right up there in my book. His teams always play great football to watch, but they haven't won a single trophy in 8 years, and that's got to be something of an indictment.
3. Martinez remains to be seen. He inherited a good team from Moyes but if they finish 7th, would you say he was a great manager? He may have won the League Cup with Wigan but he also managed to get them relegated
4. Despite some of the less successful purchases, Rodgers has signed Coutinho, Sturridge, Mignolet and Sakho who all look good, and none cost more than 15m. He also did an excellent job with Swansea, which Laudrup (whose praises are sung by many) has hardly improved. So, on a relatively limited budget he's got a team playing some exciting and incisive football.

Based on the starting point, I still think you can make a very good case for Rodgers - and I can see no problem with the term "at the moment" because managers come and go and careers go through ups and downs. 10 years ago obviously one would have said Wenger or Ferguson.

For one, it depends what you base your judgement on. Is it the style of football, the continuity, the success, the tactical ability, the ability to rebuild a team?

three managers stand out, Arsene Wenger, a visionary, makes his team play an entertaining brand of football and is capable of rebuilding teams and provide continuity. His tactical abilities are quite limited for a manager of his quality, and he's not much of a winner, especially for the last 8 years.

Mourinho is a winner on the other hand, the smartest manager in the league. He knows tactics, and he can use them, and no one comes close in that department. He doesn't play good football all the time, but when he does, his teams are unstoppable ( Madrid 2011-2012 ).

Pellegrini has both. He's a bit of a mix between Wenger's vision and Mourinho's tactics, but he's not as good as either in their respective domains.

All in all I'd say Mourinho because of his CV, but the others are not too far

Peashooter, you have made 'NO' case for BR. How is signing four good players and wasting millions on others a case for BR being the best EPL manager? How about Pellegrini getting Negredo for just £16m? Cheaper than Joe Allen. Because Moyes has signed Mata, does that make him a better manager?

So far you have given us nothing to back up your argument that BR is the best EPL manager.

Sydney, you didn't mention the 37 mill paid for mata'. And all managers have bad buys, the great sir alex bought anderson and.BEBE which is enough to close the arguement. BR is a modern managet trying to play imo the right football even.united fans would agree they would want.their team playing free flowing football.

Big Al, I agree with you completely, however this is a discussion on whether or not BR is the best EPL manager at the moment. Which I am sure you would agree, he is not.

When I think of BR I think of small man syndrome and full of s---.

Arsene Wenger for me is better than Mourinho or Pellegrini who are both good managers.

Neither could manage a team as consistently as Wenger has and kept them in the top 4 with almost no money spent as has Wenger.

I think most forget that these Mourinho, and pellegrini are backed by massive amounts of money already spent talent and continued spending on more talent.

Br has definitely improved liverpool a lot by the style he is preaching and buying players that suit that style. Like everything else he needs more time, more funds to improve his team and then maybe win trophies.

It is very difficult to compete with the likes of chelsea and city with their current spending rate no matter who is Managing them, case and point being chelsea who change managers and keep winning.

30 Jan 2014 12:59:50
Ed Woodward was at the training session this morning. why would Ed be at a training session?

Perhaps looking for a chance to score an Equaliser

I know, I know - its been done to death but there are not many opportunities to use it in a footballing scenario.

I know, why isn't he on a plane to Germany to get Kroos, lol.

Because he couldn't negotiate his way out of a car park.

Something happening at Carrington
today either player or sponsor
Big news!!

Ed Woodward at Carrington is great news. It means SAF and Gill are busy negotiating our transfers ;)

Is it not likely to be that kit deal?

Probably still thinks Matta hasn't signed yet and was waiting for the helicopter! No body has told him. He is probably still there.

30 Jan 2014 12:19:10
So we could see Nani leave in the next couple of days. Fulham have lodged a joint bid for Cole & Tunnicliffe. I think we can safely say Young will stay. Could we see Buttner go out on loan if we sign a LB this month? With Anderson, Fabio and Zaha already gone, I think we have made enough room for two more signings, let's see if we can get them done in time.

30 Jan 2014 11:54:25
Nani to Inter on loan looking more and more likely. Good riddance. He had his chance and has failed time and time again. Hopefully his departure will lead to us bringing in a cm - either on loan or permanently.

MU seem eager to offload him Red7, it would save the club £80k a week and we should get a loan fee for him. Perhaps a couple million? Him and Andow would create space for one or two more signings. Fingers crossed.

Why is there no talk of young going

Who would want him. He cost us £16m a few years ago and so I can't see us letting him go for anything less than £8m. I can't see anyone willing to pay that for a player who has done so poorly over the past few seasons. He may score a belter every now and again - but his general play is poor.

30 Jan 2014 10:41:02
So rumours has it Toni Kroos isn't happy at bayern & Pep will allow him to leave. With all the issues we've had with medicials this season I think we should be busy closeing the kroos deal round about now so that he can have a medicial before 12 2moro. would reali love 2 see 1 more top player in the Utd midfield. we can get rid of nani aswell could mean more game time for a better player & abit more cash for the summer market. ED please advice as to you think the summer targets might be oviasly including Toni kroos if we don't get him before 2m

{Ed002's Note - Let's get thru January first.}

30 Jan 2014 09:44:29
Hi guys I posted the other day about my friend being a photographer for united, well he's told me this morning that he's got to be at carrington all day, and to take all his equipment with him, for what he's doesn't know and has been told to keep it a low profile, maybe an exclusive for us guys on here, if he texts me il be posting updates all day with what's happening, maybe he can snatch a picture for us to see :D exciting news hopefully it's another creative play maker or a strong centre half

Rooney to sign new contract maybe?

Try not to cost your friend job haha. thanks for the update, if true.

Hi,
Has there been any development on this front, rumours of Rooney signing contract but other than that nothing coming out today. unless he was the one that snapped Woodwood and Moyes at the training ground!!

30 Jan 2014 06:07:47
ed, I know you don't like talking about finances but do you think that the club will use the kit deal and the chevrolet shirt sponsorship to pay off the clubs debt off in full?

if nike were willing to offer 300m back in august, surely the club are expected to receive more now that other companies are also interested, maybe as high as 350-400m. add that to the 357m chevrolet deal and I can not see why not.

now obviously it won't come in in one lump sum, but surely if you were to announce that part of the money from these deals would be used to eradicate the debt with the remainder being invested into the club, then it would have a huge impact, firstly it would improve the atmosphere, silence a few haters (not mentioning any names) and add a sense of security about the club.

importantly it would add confidence to the utd brand, increasing our shares price should they want to sell, but also to reassure those in the club and maybe help bring some new faces in (or at least not giving them a reason to go elsewhere)

anyway ed, do you think this could happen? also who do you think will end up being the new kit sponsor?

dags

{Ed002's Note - By paragraph: (a) No. (b) There is a potential for a significant delay going anywhere else. (c) The debt is structured and being managed. Why are you even thinking about this. (d) I really have no idea what you are talking about. (e) No. Nike.}

With 3 manufacturers reportedly bidding Money aside who would you guys like to be our new kit brand? Bearing in mind we have had some dire kits lately, I would like to go back to addidas, they seem to produce nicer kits and they would probably release all the retro shirts aswell

I think most of our best kits from the modern era were made by Umbro. I tend to agree with you about some of the Nike kits not being the best, but I'm sure the club has a major say in shirt design too. Having said that, I think Nike are nailed on to continue as our kit supplier.
I feel a debate coming on about favourite United shirts :-)

30 Jan 2014 08:19:40
on tinternet "Pep Guardila says that Bayern might sell Toni Kroos"

Regardless of whether this is true or not, can anyone tell me the type of player he is. As YOUTUBE only shows so much :)

I know he would be an improvement on what we currently have but at a touted £25m is he worth that fee?

Thanks

30 Jan 2014 02:54:45
Watching City and Liverpool's demolition of Spurs and Everton this week, one realizes just how far we have to go to match their creativity and pace. Personally I think Brendan Rodgers is the best manager in the EPL, and with Sturridge and Suarez he has as good a strike force as any team out there. While 4th place is not yet lost we will have to play beyond ourselves to achieve it.

As one of the Eds bemoaned after the victory over Cardiff, our defense sit back so deep that it puts too much pressure on the midfield and generally adds to the disjointed nature of our play. This tendency is not one that just started this year, so you can't really blame Moyes. It's another part of his inheritance and if we don't fix it, it becomes even harder to see us pipping Liverpool, or winning many of our key remaining games.

"I think Brendan Rodgers is the best manager in the EPL".

Really? Big statement to make.
Take their two forwards out for the length of time ours have been out and see what results he can produce. Without them two he would really struggle. and he better get used to it when Suarez packs his bags in the summer when RM / Barca come calling.

Red

While I don't agree with the statement about BR but we struggled as well without Rooney and RVP. No obe can deny that Sturridge and Suarez are the best duo right now and Liverpool is playing much better than us.

In order to get the 4th spot we'll have to play the best football we can.

Nick. How about a certain one or two at City?

BR isn't even the best manager in Liverpool.

30 Jan 2014 00:21:28
Read a year old article a minute ago that was very interesting and a good read.

Uwe Rosler (current wigan manager) was saying how England need to copy the way that Spain and Germany have their youth teams in lower competitive leagues rather than in a separate reserve league.

Sorry for the copy and paste of this bit.

"'Here we are having development games, there the second team are playing competitive football in the third highest league. They can't go higher than that league, and they have to reach it, but it is a good way to develop under competitive conditions. Here the development games mean nothing.'

Rosler added: 'I love to work in England and the Premier League is a fantastic product. There is a non-stop development of good players, but what is happening is that at 18, 19, 20 too many players are getting lost. (Clubs should) only go for the top foreign players and not the average ones who are blocking places."

Personally I couldn't agree more.

Isnt there rule in the bpl that stops them from training more? I think I remember SAF saying something about it some years ago?