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30 Sep 2012 22:59:06
Guys just got back from a weekend away for the wifes 40th, is it worth me watching the recording of m.o,t,d i heard we were awful ??
Watch the golf instead otherwise you will have nightmares
johndenton
30 Sep 2012 21:35:44
isco ince strootman would be great additions in jan or summer but player would have to depart
nani 15m macheda 3m andersson 8m for example
just my view cjwales82
Forget
Everything
And
Remember
Cos we are Mancheser United and we will come back again....
HERBIE
30 Sep 2012 20:42:28
I am sorry but I have been telling you for ages that we have not been re investing in the team and it was going to come home to roost. I also told you some weeks ago that Fergie was not happy with DDG and I was slaughtered. Maybe just maybe I was right. But don't worry about it we are paying the Glazers debt off so everything is ok. I AM KLOOT
In the space of 12 months we spent 100mil on players
I would call that investing
Good point Kloot, the one thing you never see on this site is those who disagree with a prediction and rant about it only to go missing when it proves to be correct rather than apologising and giving credit and yet again I agree with what you're saying!
Flimbo
With outgoing sales and the ronaldo money thats what we spent no extra investment
johndenton
Flimbo, but Kloot hasn't been proved correct has he? We have spent £100m (net) in two seasons so the only person to blame here is the manager as he decides who to buy. The cash has been there. That is proof.
Sydney!
John, since the summer of 2010 the manager has had £130m (net) at his disposal. If he has chosen not to spend that on an accomplished midfielder then that is down to him, not the owners. The blame can only lay with him as they have made cash available.
Sydney!
Exactly Sydney! As quality player as Kagawa is, IMO it was unnecessary to sign both him and RVP to the detriment of CM. Don't get me wrong, I'm glad we have them but RVP and a top CM might have been wiser. I can't help but think that, at until he has a solid midfield behind him, Kagawa is a luxury we can't afford.
TK-Red
Syd
I was saying I agreed with his prediction regarding De Gea!
Flimbo
30 Sep 2012 20:26:59
Have no fear everyone. Sir Alex knows what he's doing! Class is permanent.......isn't it?!
2009 Captain
Not this time, your wrong, if you see a problem you don't let it linger on for a very long time. If Alex continues like this we will win nothing, You honestly believe we can win the premiership with a midfield preforming like that and a midfield selection like that ? lost 2 games already how many more will we lose like that ?
He acts like he doesn't have a clue, selecting that starting lineup was crazy. Even worse is his treatment of DDG, who is a much a better keeper than Lindegard. He's a living legend but he seems to have lost his touch.
30 Sep 2012 20:13:59
Can we turn into a top class team again with just two signings?
___________De Gea
___Smalling__Vidic__Jones
Rafa________Vidal______Buttner
__Gotze____Rooney___Kagawa
__________Van Persie
Gotze is just an example. You could put Muniain in there and it would look good too. That front four would be very impressive. Vidal is the one everyone wants for the holding role in front of the defence. I would like Hummels but Jones and Smalling are great prospects. So what would Gotze and Vidal cost together? 60m? Those two signings instantly makes us look top quality again. It would help Kagawa too as he would have more players around him who are comfortable on the ball. Pity it's not that easy.
However, I genuinely believe those two signings is what we need. Gotze/Muniain/Rodriguez/Isco and Vidal.
G.A.G.U.S
Playing with 3 at the back is such a waste.
Percy
30 Sep 2012 21:13:18
Stick with 4 at the back, go with a midfield 3 and a front 3.
De Gea
Rafael Smalling Hummels/ Papa Buttner
Cleverley Vidal Anderson/ Other
Rooney Van Persie Kagawa
Mort
Isco n strootman would more affordable
How is it a waste Percy?
G.A.G.U.S
Why would we bother wasting a position with an un needed CB?
Percy
30 Sep 2012 20:13:16
Not posted about the match at all, and for good reason. Did not want to join in with the knee jerk reactions on here. However, after consideration, most of the reactions are not knee jerk.
We have to start with the older players. Patrice 'Out of Position' Evra, Giggsy and Ferdinand really let the side down, but is it their fault? Well, of course they are partially to blame, however the boss was massively at fault yesterday (not stoppage time). Ferdinand by now should be a bit part player, I know that injuries have meant that he has to play, however I'm fairly sure that SAF would play him regardless of the fitness of someone like Jones and perhaps even Smalling. We have a potential replacement for Evra in Buttner, however he was overlooked again - we could use his enthusiasm though. Giggsy too, its no longer possible for us to rely on him, he delivers a good ball, but he doesn't have the passing range of Scholes - the way that Scholes plays means that he can have a very long career and be influential. However Giggs is not Scholes and I really do feel it is time to say goodbye to him - he'd still have a fabulous impact as a coach.
What was noticeable from Tottenham yesterday is the blend of quality and eagerness/energy. They played simply, Bale and Lennon with great pace, solid driving forces in midfield and intelligent runs up top. I feel as though we are somewhere between wing playing and more of a fluid AM style. With this in mind, what is the best starting 11 that we could hope for with transfers? Well, this would be a significant improvement:
____________De Gea
Rafael__Smalling___Vidic__Baines
______Strootman__Clevs
Valencia____Rooney____Kagawa
____________RVP
Thats only two changes, however it looks much more assured and I'm sure we'd be confident that the team could do well in every game. Baines simply is solid, but that really is what we need. He would also form a good partnership with RVP I imagine as intelligent balls twinned with intelligent runs means goals. We also utilise the great partnership of Rafael and Valencia which I feel is a good partnership. De Gea also has to play, he is going to be world class where as Lindegaard is simply 'good'. Strootman would be the box2box tough tackling but also good passing midfielder who could stand up to the bigger boys (Vidal is the dream).
Fresh!
30 Sep 2012 19:31:50
Hi Guys
As are most of the people on here I was devastated with yesterday;s score and in particular with the first half performance.What stood out for me though was why on earth did we not go all out to get Dembele in the summer.He has completely dominated our midfield twice now and both times at Old Trafford.
He has pace,power and can pass the ball.He would considerably improve our midfield which is fast becoming a farce.I don't want to be all doom and gloom but if we are going to win the league we need to be winning our home games.
Bazza The Red
30 Sep 2012 20:25:27
Played 6, got stuffed 3 times (including Liverpool match) can't paper over the cracks anymore. With other teams improving the only way for us is down, your having a laugh if you think this team can win the league
30 Sep 2012 19:27:29
anyone else feel sorry for kagawa? coming from a good attacking team to a boring team with no ambition..
feel embarrassed for the club just lately, we seem to be going backwards these days and SAF can't see it.
maybe 2 seasons without trophies will open SAF eyes.
JK92
30 Sep 2012 20:08:43
May not open Fergie's eyes but maybe the Glaziers. Last time we had a bad start like this we won the league 20002/3 I think.
Be careful what you wish for, Sir Alex is still the best and most succesful manager in the Prem, he don't have the money to play with like in previous seasons. The opposing teams have strengthend year on year at immense cost.
We are still badly in debt, just be thankful of the great years we have had, the whole concept of football has changed and will change a lot more.
Don't expect the Glaziers to finance big money signings unless we sell. We only got by the last 2 seasons with the Ronaldo money
Better team/squad in 02! Most of these would not get close to starting in that team! How long as Anderson been here how many games has he started consecutively? How do you replace someone of the ability of Paul scholes & for the longevity? & from what I've heard ronaldo is making eyes at city! It's only going to get worse!
Barry from watford
30 Sep 2012 21:14:45
98 million in the last 2 summers is still a hefty amount to spend its just not been spent wisely, instead of spending 16 million on Young we could have gotten Vidal for 14 million and we wouldn't be having these discussions. Mort
Nonsense no name.
Sydney!
No name what a complete useless post. Everyone correct me if I am wrong but never before did we spend almost 50 mill back to back.
An average joe could see how we sucked against barcelona in CL and had no midfield.
Why on earth we keep buying wingers is beyond me as they are useless if you can control the centre of the pitch.
We have bought poorly and scout poorly with no players coming through the system.
Unfortunately many highly successful managers in many professional sports stay too long and the game passes them by.
You have to respect people like Arsene Wenger for what he does with his budget and how he brings through the youth within their system. Believe me if he was at UTD with our budgets he would win a lot of trophies. Shahram
30 Sep 2012 19:01:19
Never thought it would get to the point where I would say this, but Giggs must retire. I would even say take a leaf out of Gary Neville's book and do it with immediate effect. I actually hate seeing his name on the team sheet now. He has been an incredible player for this club, perhaps one of the best ever. But the time has come.
G.A.G.U.S
30 Sep 2012 19:35:37
Agreed i've been saying it since end of last seaosn actually and some guy has said it further down. Its sad but he is clearly past it ans should have gone years ago. Legend is tarnished now. Mort
Zidane retired at the top because he didn't want to play when he was passed it and people telling him he needed to retire. Giggs should retire. A true legend but unfortunately not the player he once was.
Mad Hatter
I totally agree but tbh I don't think he cares as long as he's playing
Pardoe
Been saying it for 3 seasons!
It's not Gigg's fault, it's the manager who keeps picking him regardless of his performances because he doesn't have a clue how or who with to replace him!
Ryan Giggs gave United 100% throughout his entire career, he's won more trophies than any other player in English football history and yet has never held the club to ransom over a contract and was loyal to the club when every major club in Europe wanted to make him the worlds most expensive signing which means he has more clout in United decisions than any "fan" on a rumours website will ever have, so don't blame him for staying and fighting for the club, he doesn't know anything other than United. The same can be said for SAF but where Giggs has declined in his performances on the pitch due to age, SAF has declined off it with much more catastrophic effect as he just hasn't moved with the times, he cant seem to remove the deadwood with no regard for feelings or friendship like he used to. In the past he would simply remove the player as soon as he reached his sell by date and replace him with someone better. Examples are Paul Ince, Paul McGrath, Mark Hughes, Jaap Stam, Ruud Van Nistelrooj and of course, David Beckham to name a few.
So why is it that he can't or won't acknowledge this and just do his job and improve the team? Why is he playing Ryan Giggs in CM against Liverpool at Anfield when he is pushing 40? Its an absolutely astonishing decision and he really needs to come out and explain how or why the team is playing so badly as its us he should answer to, not the greedy Glazers and it's about time he realised it.
Flimbo
30 Sep 2012 18:56:57
Looking way into the future to the end of seasons and up coming summer and what a big summer it COULD be in the history of our club.
This is the time when everyone is waiting to see if the manager will hang up the reigns at the club this season, he has been the greatest ever manager for any club and has done amazing things but the game has drastically changed over the last 2 years and we just don't seem to have moved with the times.
Scholes and Giggs will retire in the summer (maybe in Giggs case earlier) and we will lose a lot of experience along with them in my opinion with Ferdinand and Evra and maybe even Vidic (don't think he will ever be the same again) in the summer.
The coming summer could define the future of our club, with us IF Ferguson retires a new manager and the rest of the old guard retired or moved on. And this in terms of incoming's would be my ideal summer and starting 11 when it comes to the 2013-2014 season.
Incomings: Ogbonna, New Left Back, Kevin Strootman, Younes Belhanda and Isco or another CAM/Winger
-------------De Gea-------------
Rafael-Smalling-Ogbonna-LB
------Belhanda-Strootman---
Isco/Other--Rooney--Kagawa
---------------RVP----------------
Manager:Pep Guardiola
I honestly think Fergie has been holding back his cash for a new manager to allow him to build his own squad and replace alot of the old guard which I named before....Would love to know everyones opinion
RedKnight {Ed004's Note - Don't think Belhanda could play in a two man midfield tbh}
30 Sep 2012 19:34:24
Why sign a left back, let Buttner do the job. Also i doubt Ogbonna would be good enough for the prem, is alright playing in serie a where games are walking place and you have time on the ball, but he wouldn't hack the prem
30 Sep 2012 17:52:05
Why o earth did SAF play Giggs agaist the fastest team in the prem with Bale and Lennon.
Dan
Dan, if I was Powell, Cleverly, Ando, Petrucci, Tunners, etc, etc, I would be seriously p****d off with SAF picking Giggs ahead of any one of them. It just does not make sense in any way, shape or form. It's just not credible by SAF - there must be some reasoning behind his line-ups, but neither I, nor anyone here understands it.
J Bones.
P.S. its great to see the glory-hunters jumping ship already. Unbelievable!!
30 Sep 2012 19:57:00
what goes around comes around,we stole the points at Anfield last weekand was robbed of the points yesterday
How were we robbed of points ? We lost to a team that played better then us, they wanted it more then we did. Please don't say we were denied a penalty? Manchester Utd can not depend on them. Utd should be a team the outplays and out thinks other teams. That is what Utd are all about but with the current situation with Fergie talking about injury time as a reason for not winning the game is just madness playing a weak midfield is madness not replacing the players that were needed to keep Utd at the Top never Happened. Fergie giving the Support to the Glaziers over the loyal Utd supporters who could see the Americans destroying the club internally is total madness. Why has the most successful manager in England's history not seen this coming? why as a manager of his caliber has HE LET MAN UTD GET IN TO THIS POSITION? These are important questions that need to be answered, When a manager goes about injury time and penalties for a reason of losing a game then this shows Manchester United have serious issues, its not a knee jerk reaction its a fact. I am a true united supporter and want them to win, play well like Manchester United have the passion of Manchester United. But at this moment in time we are far from that. Fans have a right to question Alex if he has made mistakes and Alex has made some mistakes that can not be ignored they are huge errors for a manger of his caliber. Hope the True United Fans can get together and get this message across to the people at the top at United. IF we win the next 5 games people will say look at the reaction to Alex they not true fans, whats the point of winning the next 5 or 10 games if we don't win the Title or Champions league. Once United fix the issues correctly and not ignore them Then United can get to where they belong AT THE TOP.
Kind Regards to all true UNITED FANS wherever you are in the World.
30 Sep 2012 17:48:07
I think yesterday's game demonstrated quite clearly that a couple of players are no longer up to playing for Man Utd.
Ferdinand was awful and was at fault for all three goals. His lack of mobility was evident and in my view the time has come for him to be moved on.
Also, I think Giggs has reached the end. He should have retired at the end of last season because to me he looks like he's well of the pace.
Yesterday's game also showed that Carrick and Scholes should not play together. Both of them need a box to box midfielder alongside them such as Cleverley, Fletcher or Andersen to add more energy and mobility.
Also, I think we need a new pacy left winger who can beat defenders and get a decent cross in. It's no good RVP coming out into that wide position because when he does there's no one in the box for him to cross to.
Finally, we need to play 4 4 2 at home. It's more 4 2 4 when Utd set up this way and most teams just can't cope with it.
So that's one sale, one retirement, two tactical changes and one signing and all will be good again. Ha ha!
Andrew B
30 Sep 2012 19:49:18
giggs should have gone 5 yra ago
30 Sep 2012 17:45:53
giggs should have retired after moscow. He'd broken the appearance record so why did he play on? Surely he's got to be looking at his games this season and doing a gary neville and thinking its not good enough like g nev did after stoke and west brom. I'm hoping he retires in january before he becomes anymore of a joke. Why did he not retire after moscow?
He is past it
He got player of the year the following season.
Caolán.
Media got him that award bit of a joke really only played part-time
30 Sep 2012 20:32:07
Yes he did get player of the season, did he deserve it or did he get it to make up for never getting it whilst in his prime?
30 Sep 2012 16:39:55
Ferdinand is just too slow now, Bale strolled past him to score.
Evans' challenge on Vertongen was laughable, no-one stepped out to engage him, and if the deflection had gone wide of the net I would had given a penalty to Spurs and sent Evans off!
Evra should have scored that header. Shocking miss.
Van Persie should have scored two, through on goal and header.
We still created a lot of chances against a top 5 team intent on sitting back and digging in. On another day we would have scored a bagfull.
Worried about our centreback positions (wishing we had grabbed Cahill) and lack of pacey tough defensive mid. Would live to see Tiote in Jan - or Cabeye/Moutinho if AF prefers a better passer.
Forwards look to be clicking a bit more, we may need to score a lot of goals to pick up any points tho!
DodgyBanter
To be quite honest Bale's pace would tear apart any Central Defender in the premier league, I think even Vidic, David Luiz, Skrtl, Kompany and Agger would've struggled with that one. It was more the disorganisation between him and Johnny Evans.
Andy S
Oh and Nani's lack of tracking back.
Andy S
Agreed that Bale's pace gives most defenders problems but he's not unplayable. If you can't match his pace then the defenders positioning has to be spot on as well as the positioning between the defenders.
Utd's defence was all over the show for all three Spurs goals.
Nano & evra are more trouble than they are worth these days! Rio has been past it a while & johnny Evans is rubbishe!
Charltons combover
30 Sep 2012 16:28:07
I see alot of people criticising the team and manager after yesterdays performance, and rightly so. Ive never seen us get over run so badly at home in that ffirst half.
But, i thought the second half when we played a sort of 4-2-3-1 we looked like a united of old! We couldve had 6/7 in that half. Rooney couldve played in rvp numerous times and i think when they click we will be scoring for fun.
My one real concern wit us is our lack of bite and hunger until we go behind in games. We need to start killing games off early not letting our oponents walk around us and score early. Going behind in matches early u always run the risk of dropping points.
GALWAY RED
30 Sep 2012 16:14:02
Mike the Moston Red, no need to panic just yet!! The only glaringly obvious emission from the starting line up was Rooney but he is just coming back from a nasty injury & we have games coming up thick & fast! I am slightly concerned though that Ferguson appears to be reluctant to play Rooney & Van Persi together but time will be the judge on that one!
Scholes is still head & shoulders the best midfielder at the Club with Anderson & Cleverley still not yet either a) good enough or b) consistent enough, I will let u be the judge of that!
All our defenders are injured so the defence more or less picks itselfs although I do agree De Gea is probably a better keeper but is definately more prone to throwing in a howler far to often for my liking & Fergi obviously doesn't think he can trust him yet!
With Valencia & Young out injured that ment either Giggs or Welbeck on the left & both haven't exactly set the world on fire recently although I do conceded that Welbeck has been playing out of position recently!
For me Kagawa has been the biggest disappointment this season! Whilst I don't doubt he is a very good footballer I'm not sure he suits our style of play! He likes to play quick one touch passes with players close to him but we still play with wingers, get the ball out wide quickly & put crosses into the box! Having said that I thought he played much better in the second half when Rooney came on & he moved slightly to the left! I like the look of a front three of Kagawa, Rooney & Van Persi all interchanging positions & playing off one another with Van Persi as the spearhead of the attack & Rooney & Kagawa operating just behind!
I would like to see a midfield three of Scholes or Carrick, Cleverley & Anderson with Rooney, Kagawa & Van Persi up front! This formation may lack a bit of width but we have attacking full backs & we would be more solid in midfield & less likely to get overrun! We have always got the wingers on the bench if needed! This formation would give Kagawa more players to interchange with & hopefully we could start seeing the best of him!
We can take a lot of positives from y'day's second half performance & we're still on level points with City without playing well yet!
If anyone can get the best out of this squad Fergi can!
Desperate Dan
Desperate Dan, the Middleton Madman,
Wise words fella, only criticism is although he may be the best at getting the best out of players, he isn't the best tactically. That is why if he is not going to step aside (which I very much doubt he will) we at least need a world class coach underneath him. We have never replaced Quieroz, the difference between the semi against Barca in 2008 against the 2 CL finals was there for all to see. He spoke players languages. He was in the technical area all the time barking out instructions, making suggestions to Ferguson where he thought there needed to be a change.
It was embarrassing yesterday mate, he came down and stood in the technical area after 35 minutes Ferguson, because he knew he had got it all wrong, but to save face waited till half time to make the Rooney change, when everyone there knew the change needed to be made after about 10 minutes.
Read Gary Nevilles book, he talks of Queiroz tactics before the Barca semi, walking the players thru moves and identifying potential problem areas.
Ferguson these days picks our team and doesn't even think about the opposition. Tottenham did us all ends up yesterday in the first half. It was only the crowd coming to life after Scholesy flying in with a tackle that got the players going again.
I take you back further to Steve Mclaren always there looking at the game, not looking a refereeing decisions. Ask your dad about the Busby era, he did what Ferguson swore he wouldn't i.e Blind Loyalty to players who had clearly reached he autumn of their careers. If this doesn't get sorted quick we are going the same way. He will step aside and there will be fall guys for about 5 years just like O'Farrell, McGuinness etc
Get rid of him now for me or at least push him upstairs in some ambassadorial role or whatever and give him the Busby aura around the dressing room if needs be.
Yeah the luck with injuries is killing us but we have more that enough in the squad to cope if utilized well enough. Giggs from the start in big games come on. Carrick ponderous and panicky when challenged, Scholesy genius but not got the legs anymore.
Its not good enough mate and you know it
Mike the Moston Red
Does anyone know what formation Dortmund played last season?
Mike the Moston Red,Â
To say Fergi is not tactically aware is a touch naive in my view. Don't forget this is one of the most decorated managers the game has ever seen with well over 20 years experience at the very top! I do agree that maybe we need a better number 2 & it would be interesting to know how much input Fergi has on training sessions these days & maybe he has become slightly out of touch with the modern game!Â
It is obvious that he has never fully addressed the central midfield area & that is where most of our problems stem from.Â
I have problems with our 4-4-2 or 4-4-1-1formation as I'm not sure we have the players to utilise this nymore. Scholes & Carrick are far too exposed as a midfield 2 as most teams, especially in Europe, now flood the midfield. In my view  we are too reliant on our wingers who can be inconsistent to say the least & when they don't play well we really struggle to break teams down. Against the good teams & especially in Europe we can't afford to play Carrick & Scholes in midfield with two orthodox wingers as  we just get over run & concede possession far to easily! Don't get me wrong this formation can still be very effective when everybody is on form but sometimes it can be a bit one dimensional & if you can stop the wingers you stop Utd as we don't have anyone backing the play up from midfield & driving us forward! Scholes is still brilliant at spreading the play from side to side but he doesn't arrive late in the box anymore & Carrick doesn't get forward so there has only been Van Persie to get on the end of crosses recently. This may change with Rooney back in the team but do u think Kagawa is good enough to play deeper in the middle as part of a two maybe alongside Cleverley?Â
I think the problem with this Utd squad is nobody really seems to know what is our best starting 11?Â
I would be very interested to get other Utd fans views on our best starting  11 & formation??Â
Dan
For me with everyone fit
De Gea
Rafael Smalling Vidic Evra
Valencia Anderson Cleverley Kagawa
RVP Rooney
Mike the Moston Red
Fergie has lost it & should pack in now. If you Mike the Moston Red cant see that then you are blind as a bat.
30 Sep 2012 16:06:10
Fergie is playing on our inteligence.Before the start of pre season and season,he will tell the media that Ando and clevery are good and going to be wonders in the PL.He would hardly mention giggs and sholes.but when the season starts,Ando and Clevery will be nowhere seen but Giggs and Sholes disgracing their legendry.
If we play Fletcher,Ando,Clevery and Roney in the middle.Our opponents will be punished with the pace and skills of these players
30 Sep 2012 15:58:25
I still remember what it was like before fergie came we would loose at home to norwich while Liverpool would win yet another European cup....will always be grateful but time waits for no man and he has to stand down now! Everton have beaten us we were outplayed by Liverpool (full of young kids) & were lucky to win Chelsea,arsenal,city look better than us we should have sold Rooney when we had the chance & reinvested it his value is decreasing RVP has done well but is just papering over the cracks.....very concerned!
Djembaklebberveron
30 Sep 2012 15:38:56
Think utd need some real quailty players signed if not Jan then in the summer when Giggs & Scholes depart as we look so flat and slow in midfield .. Anderson and Cleverly r the only midfielders we have with any pace, i would give them a chance if fit as we really need 2 see if these players r good enough .. feel sorry 4 RVP if utd dont improve the squad as he took a big step signing 4 us ..when all the fans can see where we r falling short trust me Fergie can see it 2 and no doubt will act
30 Sep 2012 15:38:26
Kagawa was anonymous in the 1st half against totenham but this was because scholes and carrick were way too deep. There was to big of a gap between the mf and kagawa, which meant no end product could be done with the ball. Kagawa could not out muscle sandro and dembele on his own and could only just pass it back where it came from. Interestingly when rooney was on there was good combo play beetween them two which also lead to Rvp gettin much more involved. Kagawa and Rvp cnt do anything if they dont have the ball and when they do have the ball there is nothing on because they are isolated. Solution is either instruct the cmfs to press up and add pressure to the opposing team or also play rooney in the whole alongside kagawa.
Unfortunately i dont think fergie will be playing alot of games with rooney,rvp and kagawa atleast not when kagawa in the whole, he'd probably be pushed left. Which he kinda ignored in the 2nd half and linked up well with rooney and drifted in to get the goal.
Sulei
30 Sep 2012 15:30:56
A few thoughts on yesterday's game:
1. Keeper - In my opinion, DDG is a superior shot stopper to Lindegard. I understand DDG isn't the best at handling crosses, but he will only get better by playing in big games. If you ask me, I think DDG would have been able to save the Bale goal. Further, it's not like TOT have huge aerial threats, so DDG should definitely have started. Furthermore, his great shot stopping repeatedly bailed us out of games in the second half of last season. He is the real deal and I think SAF is being stubborn about this.
2. Giggs,scholes,carrick MF - Why on earth has SAF not realized that starting these three in midfield just won't work against better sides. We get completely overrun each time they are out. Scholes was fantastic second half, but i really think it's time that Giggs only be played against lower table teams - he has become ineffective.
3. Kagawa sub - yes Kagawa looked tired when welbeck came in, but i felt that after he went off, we lost the link btw scholes and our strikers. Welbeck was a complete non-factor. Either Kagawa should have stayed on, or Cleverly come on for him. Welbeck was a brutal sub which lost the team the momentum it had built.
4. Rooney - The team began playing remarkably better when Rooney came on. Part of this was due to replacing an ineffective Giggs; however, Wazza did seem to change the mentality of the team. He looked top class for the first 30 min he was on. After that, the substitution of Kagawa and probably some lack of match fitness saw his impact on the match diminish. Still, very promising display from him.
5. Going forward - I think the second half showed the class that this squad is capable of. Defensively we are vulnerable, but given our injury situation, there isn't much that can be done. If up to me, i would give Buttner a few cosecutive starts to see if it can drive Evra back to form. Can't wait for Jones and smalling to be back to give us more options.
TomBomb
U r right mate. But i think fergie is being an a** by not trusting ddg. Last season he was a difference when it was really needed
Rodio17
30 Sep 2012 15:29:03
instead of signing a player
how about we invest some money on cloning paul scholes?
TRUMORS
30 Sep 2012 15:20:36
Mike the Moston Red, you talk a lot of sense. I do not agree with all of your post but yes;
1. Poor team selection
2. Tactically inept
3. Time has caught up with our midfielders and our manager
Yes, Giggs, Scholes and Sir Alex will be remembered for being the greatest however they must recognise that the club must move on. They are blocking the next stage of our development and I am concerned for the rest of the season.
A few indicators and evidence of poor leadership; Investment neeeded in midfield and we buy strikers and youth? Our best keeper is on the bench for the majority of games? We do not select our best or form players?
The smarter football observers knew this was coming, we have been poor this season and weak in midfield - ask Dembele he must love playing against us and should be playing for us imo.
As the song goes, things can only get better.
A man United!
One loss...panic...panic....panic.
Pathetic response.
Everton beat us as well are you a plastic fan or what?
Essex red
2 defeats in 6 games and hanging on against fulham,southampton,galatasary and l/pool unless we get this sorted out we will go potless again this season
johndenton
30 Sep 2012 14:56:38
Hi Guys,
Got a few minutes before I start Sunday dinner to have a bit of a moan and a rant. Didn't manage to get to the game last night as I had a prior engagement, pity really I love United/Spurs games and watching United chasing down a lead is one of the reasons I am a United fan. It nearly came off but it wasn't our day.
I have been saying for a number of years about the change at the top and I won't stop now, how you can start Giggs, Scholes and Carrick against Spurs midfield in beyond comprehension and how woeful did we look in that first half. Gone are the days when we can expect to win cheaply at Old Trafford and hope the opposition get overawed with the occasion.
We need the new management quick and I mean quick. 4 week ago Dembele ran us ragged in the centre of the park, and we let him do it again yesterday. Do we not learn any lessons these days. Outplayed by a Liverpool that is probably the worse Liverpool side I can remember.
I am sick and tired of our injury list, maybe Hargreaves was right. The club needs a shake up guys its a simple as that, but nobody will listen. Ferguson if he had an ounce of decency about him now would step down and let someone take over but the stubborn drive he has won't let him do that. Going on about injury time after the match, he sounded pathetic. Because of his inept team selection and tactics he was relying on injury time.
We had a perfect opportunity to keep our little cushion from the bluenoses, but he puts a team out like that, with a fit rooney on the bench. Where was Fletcher for crying out loud??. Don't come on here saying he had Tuesday in mind, you don't honestly think we have a cat in hells of winning the CL do you.
You know what will probably happen though we will win on Tuesday and get something at St James Park and the cracks will be papered over again. And the reply to this post will be how can you call Ferguson after all he had done for United. Well before you get all sentimental, have a think about what more we could of won if he hadn't been such and inept manager over the past 10 years. Embarrassed in two CL finals etc. He has only ever been as good as his no 2. Mike Phelan give me a break will yer
New management now please
Mike the Moston Red
You sound like Mike the Moston Blue to me.
30 Sep 2012 14:45:24
I dont no what the rest think but its become apparent to me DDG is a far better kepper than lindegaard i honestly think De Gea would of saved a couple of the goals lately. Get it sorted Fergie.. Plus we badly need a central midfielder and centre back! Rooney proved hes still our best player yesterday outstanding!
30 Sep 2012 14:44:50
Ryan Giggs will retire by the end of the season, he has been such an amazing servant to our club and one of my favorite players of all time. But he is well over his sell-by date and Fergie should have replaced him years ago.
There are 3 players who I think are capable of taking over from Ryan Giggs.
James Rodriguez for starters, I have watched him play for FC Porto several times now and he IMO is a great player and at the age of 20? 21? Would be a great left footed player to have in the squad.
Gareth Bale, many think he is overrated but at his age he is doing an immense job. Yes he was against a poor United side last night but he is still a great player. His pace in every game makes wonder if my TV is broken or it's being fast forwarded. Would be a nice player to replace Giggs.
Ozil.. Yes he is not a winger but in a 4-2-3-1 he can play on the left, right, center and deep. Wow he is an amazing player and I would give my arms and legs for him to join us.
There are a lot of more players who could be on the list but these would be my stand out 3, with Ozil being my first choice.
-JakeW
30 Sep 2012 14:36:13
I was thinking, who in your opinion will be our central mids in a couple of years time? I think it will be Daehli, Tunnicliffe and powell or maybe even Petrucci.I would like to hear your feedback?
RedNdProud {Ed004's Note - Hopefully not still Giggs and Scholes...}
What about Kagawa, Cleverley and Anderson? I think Petrucci should be getting a look in at the first team already though.
Percy
For me, Kagawa Yes Cleverley Squad and Anderson no. Daelhi is a must. IMO he will one day be world class.
RedNdProud
30 Sep 2012 14:35:08
Fergie has to go he is out of touch, carrick never been good enough giggs legend but past it,scholes is irreplaceable,would like to see the back of nano & evra both far too much trouble then they are worth, & to make matters worse have heard ronaldo has made overtures to our noisy neighbours!! Get moyes in before it's too late!!
Ralph milne's left leg
Ralph are you sniffing glue. Get Moyes in? Oh yes that would be good he has such a successful track record. i mean lets look at all he has won. Well theres the ? oh yes and the ? Just a minute what has he ever won. Yes that would be good lets put him in charge of United with all his experience of winning nothing. I AM KLOOT
Did you see Carrick's pass through to Kags? Carrick IS good enough, but not as a defensive mid.
30 Sep 2012 20:21:00
The Glaziers would love to get Moyes in, then they wouldn.t have to invest a lot of money on players
30 Sep 2012 14:05:22
Fergie please please go now playing carrick and giggs they wouldn't get into a mid table team yet he thinks there good enough. Plenty of good young players there he's either to stubborn or stupid to play them either way he should hang he's boots up and call it a day he's tactics are well outdated. Fergie out
30 Sep 2012 13:24:59
So we lost because the officials got the stoppage time wrong - well that explains it - nothing to worry about
N.I. Devil
Fergie has lost it big time
30 Sep 2012 13:24:59
So we lost because the officials got the stoppage time wrong - well that explains it - nothing to worry about
N.I. Devil
30 Sep 2012 13:05:22
rooney wants 2 go back 2the club he loves everton
Biggest fail of an attempt to troll us.
-JakeW
Everton couldnt aford to buy him,but may when contract runs out,even his son has gibbo printed on back of everton kit
30 Sep 2012 13:00:43
eds are we interested in ozil?.Mirror is reporting that liverpool are keeping tabs on ozil after modric arrival.I think he would be perfect for manunited ,he can play on the both right and left side as an attacking mid and can also play in middle.Would a good option to replace scholes. {Ed004's Note - I hope so...}
30 Sep 2012 12:55:18
Many people here don't want to admit, most of us never saw another person managing MAN UTD and R afraid of a possible change. I'm afraid too, but honestly.... It's time for the new ERA, maybe at the end of the Season it will happen!
SAF is no longer the Manager he was years back. He changed a lot and for the worst. He's proved his loyalty to the old players and look like he really thinks that Giggs, Scholes, Evra, Ferdinand r still the real DEAL its unbelievable.
We got good prospect coming through the academy but they'll not get any chances to prove that they can help us in any kind of way.
People talk too much about the Academy but believe me, this young lads won't see the grass this season either, maybe on the Capital One.
We r a good team but we r far from great. It's disgusting the way we play, like an amateur Club. I just no longer have the patient to watch our game(IM UTD SUPPORTER) but watching the game is like being tortured.
I just hope that change is still possible, so that we can win something this season.
Unfortunately can't see fergie going anytime soon we are in massive decline plus he picks the next manager so that means moyes in. Not good at all
If Moyes comes. We might as well give up. I have seen so rubbish managers at united and fergie will always be a legend. However his time is up. We should not be scared of change if its done in the right way.get pep or mourinho now and they will work wonders.
NoMidfield
30 Sep 2012 12:50:20
i didnt really understand why giggs scholes and carrick were playing in midfield against tottenhams very pacy midfield.Playing clevs in the midweek was not the right decision and rooney should have started the game.The defending was as always was not upto the mark and in games like this i reallised that we badly need a defensive midfielder.I really cant wait to see fletcher back in the squad coz carrick this season hasnt had a good start.I dont know about you people but it sometimes gets boring to see united play, it seems that play too many sideways passes..But overall i was very happy to see united comeback strongly in the second half and we atleast deserved a draw.
30 Sep 2012 12:48:20
this is unbelievable.why on earth would someone go with two 38 year old guys against such opponents?I have been a red devil for my whole life but it just seems so much harder nowadays to understand what's going on in Ferguson's mind.
30 Sep 2012 12:47:43
Why is Fergie, constantly changing the keepers? Surely this is counter productive.....shows no stability to either players or fans. Personally I believe it only installs confidence in our opponents.
30 Sep 2012 12:35:21
Where is RED_SKY ?we are all missing his comments on the other teams pages,heh heh!
White hart lad
30 Sep 2012 12:30:19
I think now that when fergie as said so many times in the past that "no-one is bigger than the club", think what he as always meant is, "no-one is bigger than me"..
If no-one actually is bigger than the club then does that mean fergie himself?
The club as been on the decline for the past 3 years - fact, ever since we lost ronnie and tevez and not replacing them with "world class players, not replacing scholes when he retired then performed a uturn, coz even he could see that our midfield wasn't good enough. How does carrick get picked every game, basically the first name on the sheet, how many England managers over the years have ignored him, could name 6 other centre midfielders who get picked before him. Why does he think a midfield of scholes carrick and giggs is a better option than cleverly, Anderson, and Powell, why does he not trust youth with skill and speed anymore, too stubborn I think.
"no-one is bigger than you fergie"!!
Davey Jennion
30 Sep 2012 11:23:43
How can fergie defend our team! And go on about stoppage time!! Why won't he just look at the real problem! Carrick is nowhere near good enougth! Makes me cringe when I see scholes giggs and carrick at the heart of I midfield! Every team we have played this season has been the better team! Where so week in midfield! You look at arsnal,spurs,Chelsea,Everton,Newcastle,city, there all strong squads ! Sick of people saying we dominated in the 2nd half.... Spurs just sat back! And how many goals is he gunna allow evra to give away!!
30 Sep 2012 11:02:19
Few things that i cant stop wondering since last night.
1)Will De Gea ask for a transfer after this season? It beggars belief how Lindegaard still gets the nod. God help...
2)Giggs would only play there if the gaffer selects him to play there. How much can u blame him for it? Even he must be wondering, what i am doing here? May be he should do a Gary Neville?
3)We come on here and absolutely rip to shreds any player who is stubborn and thinks that he is bigger than the club. What happens when finally it seems like the manager is on the same track?
I have been a staunch and fanatic SAF supporter. But his repeated persistence with the old guard and emotional attachment just makes me think, is it not hampering the club? Do we still get the notion that the club is bigger than everyone? Is the stubborn streak coming in between the bigger cause?
Deeps...
30 Sep 2012 10:58:26
Sack Furgy if we lose the league this season.
30 Sep 2012 10:53:51
Lets be honest Witsel would have been perfect for us this season. Witsel with Cleverley or Kagawa sat beside him and Rooney in the hole. But for £30m plus we never had a chance. The Russians are offering silly cash, well above market value and no one can match it. Perhaps if he wasn't keen on moving to Russia we may have had a chance. But it still remains that we need that midfielder. I like Javi Garcia, but noticed the other day how slow he was. Witsel had speed so I think the manager wants a quick, tough box to box midfielder with a great passing range, Strootman?
Sydney!
Haven't seen much of arturo vidal but could he be the answer to our midfield problems? From what I have seen he is tough tackling midfielder who likes to drive forward but can play defensive midfield excellently?
The Red Manc
Strootman suits that category perfectly, maybe even M'vila? His a good shout too! If we don't get someone like these in January, we will fail to compete for 1st and 2nd place.
-JakeW
Syd
I'm still fully behind the thinking of getting 2 CMers in.
70m in the bank spunk the lot and sales on a LW to replace Nani, a top CB and 2 CMs.
That would shoot us right back up there in terms of squad strength and starting 11 quality.
Ideal: Hummels, Cabaye, Vidal and Rodriguez.
I know it would cost more for them but as I said they would be my ideals for those positions.
Jono {Ed004's Note - I agree with that but I feel a left back is required as well. We shouldnt be putting all our eggs in one basket with Buttner and Evra isn't good enough}
Ed004 But Fabio would be back and hopefully him and Buttner would start ahead of Evra.
-JakeW {Ed004's Note - I know Fabio will be back but I am not sure whether Buttner or Fabio are good enough enough to start left back for United.}
30 Sep 2012 10:45:32
Against Cluj I'd love to see Fergie waking up before its too late ,if we continue to lose against good teams like Tottenham & Everton, I feel we may find it difficult to break into the top 4.
Everton & Tottenham have very quick players, so do Arsenal, City, Chelsea. We were very lucky against Liverpool to come with 3 points.
David de gea
M.Keane Evans Carrick Buttner
Fletcher Anderson
Rooney Cleverley Brady
Welbeck
1)Lindegaard
2)Ferdinand
3)Evra
4)Scholes
5)Giggs
6)Kagawa
7)Hernandez
PS Even Brendan Rodgers removed the underperforming players in the first team, putting
Carragher, Enrique, Carrol, Downing & Henderson. Suso, Sterling, Wisdom and even others have been performing better than those players. It's time SAF tried that, okay we lost against crawley town a year ago, but these players are now a year older. Gotta play them.
Shows how much you know as we beat Crawley Town... it will never happen
RedKnight
Rafael?
Carrick in defence have you seen him play there. Simply atrocious
Mad Hatter
30 Sep 2012 10:42:47
We need some strength in cm so why not stick Rooney there?
Even though it was against a weakened Newcastle team he controlled the game and then we could play RVP and Welbeck upfront
30 Sep 2012 10:40:18
Ideally this would be my team to see out the season 4-3-2-1.
___________DDG___________
Rafael_Smalling_Vidic_Buttner
___Scholes_Fletcher_Ando___
________Rooney_Kagawa________
____________RVP____________
Put cleverley instead of Scholes, adds energy to the midfield. Scholes can be an impact sub!
-JakeW
The only change i would make is cleverly for Scholes. other than that this for me would be our most positive line up.
nathan
Keep alternating scholes/ando/cleverley. keep carrick as a squad player without much starts
Completely agree, maybe moving Valencia into the right side of the midfield when he returns?
tbir.
30 Sep 2012 10:34:26
SAF apparently going with "experienced" lineup against Cluj. Oh dear. I don't understand why he trusts the experiened players more than the younger ones. If we go with a similar side as we did against Spurs, I fear a similar result. At the very least I would like to see Giggs, Scholes and Carrick replaced by Rooney, Ando and Cleverley. Is it too much to hope for Buttner and De Gea also ? If you're good enough, you're old enough. Would also like to see Fletch involved and Powell on the bench. Ando and Clevz must be given a run in the side. They are bright, quick and energetic unlike Carrick and Giggs who are slow, ponderous, lethargic and predictable.
Scholes for me is a substitute only to be used from 65-70 minutes onwards and Giggs must retire with immediate effect. Buttner is clearly a better player than Evra, why does SAF not see that and call him rough and raw ? If that's the case, give me rough and raw any day !! The lad looks quality to me. Why is experience more important than energy and vibrancy ? The older players by and large are just not good enough anymore.
I thought the club had a tradition for giving youth a chance, yet we are packing the team with geriatrics. This team is stale and past its sell by date and could become a laughing stock. Sir Alex was a great manager and we owe him so much however I fear that his abilities and therefore our performances are now impaired by his age. Wake up Fergie, make the required changes or retire !!!
As fans, we have to acknowledge that the Fergie era is almost over and embrace the future next season under Jose or Pep.
PerthDave
30 Sep 2012 10:34:01
i am very disappointed at the way we are playing, nearly every team has out played us through the middle of the field, its kinda scary! what can we do tho improve this? any thoughts lads?
fullback
30 sep 2012 10:25:29
the question i ask is what should anderson and cleverly after a good game against newcastle in mid week where both of them were on the score sheet need to do in order to be on the pitch..last yr snderson and cleverly ripped spurs apart.i now agree with pogba for leaving united.how can we be playing scholes(37),carrick(31),giggs(38),ferdinard(33),evra(31) against a resolute spurs team..the solution is scholes and giggs should call it quit and allow players like .cleverly,anderson,petrucci to get games,wh is the man who gave youth a chance in the 90's been reluctant to do so now..i couldnt believe my eyes when i saw the lineup..a scouser teased me that i guess fergie's wife did thr selection yesterday...a fustrated united fan
30 Sep 2012 10:17:51
I do not agree with people saying Ferguson should retire or step down. But it is clear to see the game has out-dated him. The traditional wingers are slowly being put out of the game, with inside forwards becoming more and more viable.
The only thing I feel Ferguson really does need is to buy a DM. Its clear he has been ponderind it, with Fletcher playing there against Newcastle and Jones featuring there a few times last season. Its all good and well having players like Scholes, Carrick and Cleverley who are great passers but they need somebody beside them who can win back possession via interceptions and tackling. All our CM barring Fletcher cannot put in a decent tackle to save their lives.
Also, Giggs should definately retire he has been piss poor for 3 seasons now. Great servant and IS a legend but there is a time to retire and Giggs and Fergie have both got it completely wrong should've been gone long ago IMO.
RED_LAD
30 Sep 2012 09:45:20
Anyone else think that our problems out wide are just as worrying as the middle of the park. Giggs is finished and has been for years now. Nani slows the game down every time he gets the ball and never uses his pace. Young is too predictable when he plays on the left as he always wants to come inside. Our only top winger is Valencia and he has no left foot whatsoever and because of that everytime he gives the ball away its usually due to his refusal to use his left foot. We are the most old fasioned team in the country. We need an assistant manager that actually does something, a centre half because ferdinand is finished, a replacement for giggs and we need to replace keane which still hasnt happened. Until all of this is done we cant compete with the top sides in europe
Ozzy
Its not about valencia's refusal to use his left foot. Ever since his injury, when a steel plaque was installed in his foot ( wrong technical words ), he became unable to do the conditioning exercices that he does with his right foot. Other than that i agree
Mick
30 Sep 2012 08:10:00
well,well, well, what do you guys make of last nights game? please dont tell me how we battered them in the 2nd half....we were again walked all over in midfield losing the first half 2-0 to a decent passing side, it just highlighted our non exsistant midfield, we have no legs and no battler in there. please sort it before the lge is out of our grasp!!
30 Sep 2012 08:02:12
Hot news of today-
*Bruno Gomes Agent wants to implement his project and talks in manchester for january move...with United..
Ed/syd?
Danger0us {Ed002's Note - "Implement his project"?}
30 Sep 2012 07:58:45
End of the day I'm a massive united fan, but I'm going to have stop watching them, a cant watch them anymore, we ant played well for so long now it's a joke, we can all say we played well in the 2nd half,, but spurs just sat back, we all no what the problem is,,, carrick,giggs,scholes... Maybe a bit harsh on scholes but at that age he doesn't av the legs, teams dominate us all the time, why has this problem not bin solved!!!!!! Am not sure we can play with wingers coz of our poor cm!! We saw dembele and Witsal go!
No Name - Nice to see a glory supporter be honest, glad we never had the likes of you around in the 70s when we were relegated.
Whilst most of us think the football we are playing is poor and Fergie seems to have lost his faith in the younger players, we rally around and support the team. You need to man up and accept we can't win every game, or try following someone like Rochdale (no offence meant) and see how you feel then. What a fickle lot you glory supporters are.
Yougottalaugh
30 Sep 2012 06:30:40
After a slow first half..- FERGI
well mate.. Whenever u play giggs in those big matches it has to be slow.
Anyway
1) DEFLECTED first goal.. Although vetronghen shouldnt allow to be in that position. Literally every1 seems scared of tackling.
2) Power run from bale. Again our aged nd aggression less team spirit allowed it.
Now
3) WATCHED HIGHLIGHt again nd again.
Evra is again a culprit. He stopped..then jogged than stopped than jogged while at his opposite end the ball was robbed. He never made a single attempt to return to his position.
Or that 3rd can be saved.
I hate him..but this doesnt drove me to this conclusion.
Watch for urself.
Wil fergie ever be open enough to drop those a** holes. Instead critising buttner as he is rash.i m sure buttner would have done atleast something.
Rodio17
This is a site for banter mate, not hate or insults. Grow up
AJH
Since the 85th minute until the end of injury-time we needed someone like Buttner who would have tried to take on the defence and forced players to commit leaving gaps. All we were doing was passing it around with no options. Taking Kagawa off meant we had no one to pass it to in the box. That was a poor move by the manager, very questionable move indeed. Bringing on Welbeck was a good idea, but not at the expense of Shinji. When he went off we never looked like opening them up. Before Shinji went off it was non-stop wave of attack after attack on the Spurs goal.
Sydney!
The same thing has happened every time he takes off shinji. we lose a lot of creativity in the final third, meaning it is essentially pointless replacing him with a striker, as is usually the case, because they arent getting the service which they would have done had nani, or carrick etc got taken off.
On a side note i also think that Fregie always leaves his subs until too late, ie 70mins. this means the 3rd sub (Hernandez yesterday) comes on on about 89 mins, consequently they have no time to make an impact. just a small thing that always frustrates me
Jaxer
30 Sep 2012 05:28:14
That was a shocking performance. Unacceptable. We were completely overrun in midfield just like against the scousers last week. We were fortunate to win then but we thoroughly deserved to lose today.
Fergie needs to have the balls to pick players based on ability and talent, not due to price or sentiment. Look at BR's team right now. Yes, I totally despise them but you can always learn from anyone, even your most hated rivals. Not doing so would be sheer arrogance.
BR has been picking players based on form, not reputation. He has dropped downing, henderson, enrique and tried to sell that 35 million donkey carroll. He wasnt afraid to do so and has promoted the youth players such as sterling, suso and wisdom. They completely destroyed Norwich, a poor side but fair play to Liverpool. They were superior to us last weekend.
These youth players have the talent and hunger to well and Fergie should do the same. Let Tunnicliffe and Petrucci have run of games. Let Anderson and Cleverley play. Fergie must learn not to be so stubborn and always pick his legends. Giggs must be dropped. Scholes can't play week in week out. We need to replace him by someone such as witsel or strootman. And Ferdinand seems past it, he should be eased out like Carragher. Hopefully with the return of Vidic, Jones and Smalling, he will.
I do hope Fergie realises this because if not, it might be time for him to go. We need a modern-thinking manager like mourinho or rodgers. Watching the norwich-liverpool game, I admit I was impressed by the scousers. Their passing and off the ball movemnt is phenomenal. Rodgers seems to be a good, young manager who isn't afraid to make the hard decisions. We need someone similar. Thank you Fergie for your 12 league titles and 2 champions leagues, but if you don't change your ways, then goodbye.
KagsRVPRoo
30 Sep 2012 04:13:40
The co-commentator said, "well you cannot question Sir Alex ..." Well sorry ...I do. That was not good enough. Who got the hairdryer at half time ? SAF should have given it to himself. That teamsheet was complete rubbish and like many I feared for us immediately it was announced. Pretty much the same teamsheet as against Liverpool apart from Scholes for Valencia. Why did SAF expect the performance to be any different ? I want to see the young players given a chance ... Buttner, Ando, Clevz, Powell, Petruzzi, Tunnicliffe, Brady. Time to thank Sir Alex for all the great memories and move him upstairs. Sell or retire Giggs, Rio, Evra, Nani and bring some vigour and excitement.
Sir Alex - That 1st half was complete rubbish and it is your fault. Take responsibility. Its time for real change.
PerthDave
Totally agree. Young manager and young players need to come in. I've said for two seasons that saf should have retired. He never blames himself and yet tactics wrong last year against Wigan Everton Blackburn Benfica basle and this year galatasaray Liverpool spurs. He needs to retire gracefully.
30 Sep 2012 03:36:04
What I keep thinking is, has SAF developed a big emotional attachment to these players? It's like he refuses to drop players like Giggs and Evra. Buttner has impressed in both his appearances but he still won't start him, and I think most United fans would love to see a young star play over an extremely mediocre Giggs.
I'm only 17 and not on a good wage, I just thank god I decided to wait until next year to get a season ticket!
Hoppy
30 Sep 2012 02:07:07
Rio likes the odd tweet or two. I wonder if he'll man up and apologise to the fans for his performance against Spurs, very least he could do. It's a very very long time since I seen Utd concede a goal like the second where two players ie Dembele and Bale ran 70 yards straight through the middle of our midfield and defence to score, without so much as a finger being laid on them.
An Dun Red Devil
30 Sep 2012 01:17:37
Some of you make me laugh a loss to spurs and some of
Think a new player is needed, not going to beat everyone
Get use to it.
It's not that we lost, it's that our team are not playing the way the should be every game.
-JakeW
Everybody loses but why play Giggs, Scholes and Carrick together and not play DDG? We would have won that game if the manager wasn't such a hard headed man.
30 Sep 2012 00:27:13
Right lads I know scholes still quality but too slow same with Carrick and giggs, so why not have a midfield 3 of tunnicliffe (runs all day) Petrucci (sprays the ball like scholes) and cleverly/Powell?
Caolán.
Cleverley/Petrucci, Anderson and Kagawa would work for me.
Percy
I would agree with you bar Scholes, he can still dictate a game and still one of the best midfielders around, look at Pirlo. I think the future is promising with the plaeyrs you mention, but all three already, I would disagree there. I would like to see ANderson getting his final chance more he has looked good the brief time he has played, and Cleverly hasnt started great but that would be my midfield three with Rooney and Kagawa drifting around behind RVP. I would like to see the young players you mentioned getting mreo opportunities, but from the bench for now
Invisible STuey
Because fergy doesnt trust them unfortunatly.
Mick
I would love to see that midfield 3 in the not too distant future, however there should be a more experienced head in there (probably scholes) for the time being. on the other hand, our midfield has been so poor recently, i dont see why we shouldnt try it
Scholes is one of the best impact subs IMO, he reads the game comes on and give the opposition a work out.
-JakeW
30 Sep 2012 19:03:57
Scholes have been going down hill for the last 2 seasons, he's still a legend tho.
Most of the time he stands in centre of pitch recieves a ball then just lays it off. he looks better than he is because most opposition gives him lots of space
30 Sep 2012 00:24:27
I've had a long think about todays game and it's not good. I'm not a doom merchant by any stretch of the imagination but really guys this is getting pathetic. When I saw the team sheet I sighed and tried to make the best of a bad situation. I'm not gonna talk about penalties or hitting posts if we would have gotten anything from that game it would have been very unfair. Most importantly it wouldn't have been the result we need to see changes Fergie doesn't need any excuse to not change his ways. A part of me wishes that Spurs really smashed us so that it would really hit Fergie that it's not working. I'm not gonna go player by player because it was all pretty poor. People quoting possession stats are deluded Spurs dropped off and invited us to try and break them down. For a long time we coudn't it was all very slow when you pass and allow them to setup then pass and allow it again it's hard to find space. It is very boring and even worse very predictable. We upped the tempo after they scored their third and looked like we could score at will but that faded. Then they stuck 10 behind the ball and soaked up the pressure but we looked unimaginative and uninspired. Please don't be fooled into thinking that Nani had a good game because he scored it was harder to miss. Even when playing his supposed prefered position he still managed to go missing and not track his man. Really the ease that they went through our midfield is very worrying. It's great to have the attacking options we have but if you can't link with them it defeats the point. Oh well hopefully something changes soon it's getting a bit ridiculous.
Darren-Bermuda
Well said, I hated the line up and posted immediately here once I saw it.
I guess there are a few of us who would be considered doom merchants on this site and me being one of them. I love the club but have openly said that we will not win a damn thing this year and something tells me we will not even finish top 2.
I was frustrated to see us not buy dm and cd, lb in the summer but thought maybe the manager has a plan and there must be guys coming through the reserves or under 21's, which I don't know much about and can't get any of their games due to living overseas.
However it is quite evident there is no plan and no light at the end of the tunnel. SAF team selection is sh..t and thoughtless and he can go on and complain all he wants about everything from our own players and refs but it is his team and his decision. Just to rub salt into the wound none of the younger guys are getting any games either (no wonder we keep losing them).
I am really frustrated and going to stop watching the games as it ruins every saturday for me. Going Golfing boys.
For those of you who thought it was okay to lose because we had a good second half, you are out of touch with how poor we are. We are going to have many disappointing results this year and most decent teams at home will like their chances against us.
Finally, I believe the club needs a change as we are now paying for very poor scouting and buying policy for a number of years.
If I am honest, we are not even a top 8 side in Europe and in PL have lost 2 out of 6 games so far, do the math and see where we end up if we keep this up.
Newcastle next weekend will not be a picnic and I will take a draw right now.
Shahram
30 Sep 2012 00:20:58
This is pretty much in reply to Red Man. You asked if Fergie would learn from today? Well, look at the last few years:
Barcelona 2-0 United
Barcelona 3-1 United
United 1-6 City
United 2-3 Blackburn
Newcastle 3-0 United
Wigan 1-0 United
United 4-4 Everton
City 1-0 United
Everton 1-0 United
United 3-2 Fulham
Southampton 2-3 United
United 1-0 Galatasaray
Liverpool 1-2 United
United 2-3 Tottenham
Now I know we won 2 or 3 of those games, but after each and every one of those games, we came on here talking about how the midfield was completely overrun and we needed to rectify this problem with a world class midfield player. I remember you specifically saying after the Newcastle game that Fergie might learn from this. That he might do something about it. It even goes back as far as the CL Final in 2009 when we were completely humiliated, even with Ronaldo in the team. Yet we are STILL here, STILL talking about the midfield, after some of the worst performances in the past 10 years. Why is nothing being done? Why was Dembele allowed to go to Spurs without us even trying to get him? Why was Javi Garcia allowed to go to City for a similar price? What is really going on? Is it is a case of Fergie not wanting to dismiss two great servants, Giggs and Scholes? Or is it a fear of failure in his final years? Or is he too stubborn to bow down to the cries for a midfielder? If we want the Premier League this season, we need to sign a midfielder and a replacement for Nani in January.
G.A.G.U.S
Mate you missed a few others as well
West brom A
Blackpool A
Swansea H
Fulham A
Just off the top of my head all games in the last 2 years where we would usually expect a good performance and a good haul of goals but struggled and seen how the CM is useless b a youthful opposition with the desire to best Utd!
It's absolutely terrible we are still here after 2 Barca lessons and a disgrace in the CL last year all of which was lost through CM being shocking!
Will we learn? Doubt it!
SAF is like your grandad where he has a problem and you know there is a newish way to to deal with it yet the only way he wants to do it is a slight variation of how he has always done it. You can see it won't work, he wants it to work, yet doesn't have it in him to admit defeat!
Also he is a fellow Jock so he won't back down unless on his terms!
Jono
G.A.G.U.S
I couldn't agree more, but January is about two years to late. I was furious before the game yesterday at the selection of Scholes, Giggs and Carrick plus Nani shouldn't be anywhere near the first team after the story in the Daily papers.
I have slept on it but my conclusion this morning is that SAF cannot see the problem, that he still sees those players as if they were at their peak. He is constantly going for what he sees as the safe option and that is likely because of his age because as I have posted previously as you get older you naturally take less risks.
A few times I have said I hoped he would learn but he just hasn't, it is hard after all he has done for the club however unless it changes and quickly his time is coming to an end. I have also likened the situation to when Clough took Forrest down, he just wouldnt accept the obvious. He didnt have Peter Taylor to put him right. I think we have the same situation at OT and the best we can hope this year is third. The big call at the end of the season is if we have another poor one, which I expect given SAFs team selections, do we give him another year or does Gill have THAT conversation about retirement.
Looking at the team yesterday five players well into their thirties in key positions plus Nani smacked of something SAF would not have stood for in his younger years and it says we are in decline. Decline is a strong word and not because of one defeat but because of what is going on in the managers head, who he is and isn't buying in the transfer market, his old players and his antiquated tactics that are being found out all too regularly. In conclusion no one can wish for him to be sacked but I don't want another Clough situation. I have not said this before and expressed that i hope he learns but as he hasn't my hope is that this is his last season, that a new broom sweeps clean next summer, his time is up, thank you for all the memories but it is time for a change when we can go to games looking forward to seeing an attractive exuberant youthful tactically aware team play good football, something we had until the manager lost his way in the last two years.
Red Man
Redman
Top post never really thought about the similarity between cloughi'es decline and what's going on with united and saf but now you have pointed it out you are spot on .I hope that someone at the club can see what could happen and sorts something out but due to the fact that saf has run the club his way for so long I don't think anyone there will da re to suggest that its time to bow out gracefully so unless saf has a total change of mindset I'm afraid we could be in for a torid time over the rest of the season .I don't expect a total collapse just that days like yesterday will happen with more and more regularity and the games inbetween where we win will not mask the problem at least not to those not blinded by the fact that for all saf is a legend at the club all good things come to an end and you can go on too long(giggs?) So here hoping more people at the club notice what you have and don't let it happen
Onecut
30 Sep 2012 00:11:42
Two Articles from the Mirror today for you guys:
1. 'Juventus could land United winger Nani in cut-price £12m deal'
How many of you would actually let go, for £12m?
2. 'Rio Ferdinand will be offered a new deal at Manchester United.'
Really? .. Wow, just stop playing football and be part of the staff.
Nani had his value at 25m this year but after failing to off load him the power is all on his hands now. We will now have to accept any bid coming our way rather than having him on the wage bill for another 18 months and either lose him for less in summer 13 or a free in 2014.
We should have sold him after his good season but now looks like another loss on a player! Shock!
Jono
30 Sep 2012 00:10:04
I know it's really early to be thinking of Newcastle, but if you were the manager right now what team would you have on your mind?
I think Newcastle are on the same level of spurs, maybe even more threatening. We need pace, no more slow old players in the center, we need to show determination like we did in the second half this afternoon.
Perfect Line-up for Newcastle:
____________De Gea
__Rafael_Ferdinand_Evans_Buttner
_________Fletcher/Carrick
______Anderson___Cleverley
_____Rooney________Kagawa
_________Robin Van Persie
If this was the line-up I would be extremely confident, Rafael and Buttner would give that width on the attack.
I prefer Fletcher but it's highly unlikely so him or Carrick would be told to sit back and protect Rio and Evans.
Anderson and Cleverley ran riot last season, Fergie let them have another chance for goodness sake! They make such a good attacking partnership and would really give the opposition a work out!
Rooney and Kagawa would help out in midfield and interchange like they did today, really am looking forward to seeing them two together.
RVP would hopefully get a lot of service sent to him and put away his chances.
I would bring Scholes on at the 70th minute mark for Anderson or Cleverley and let him dictate the game as usual.
If Smalling or Jones are fit, please someone clarify for me! I would like to see one of them come on for Ferdinand.
And the final sub would be Hernandez for RVP, would give that final bit of pace to work out a worn out Newcastle defense.
Newcastle have just drawn to Reading but I wouldn't expect them to play as poor again.
If anyone thinks someone else would be better to place in the squad please share.
On match day I hope to see a similar line-up to this one, if it's similar to today's one I will start to seriously question our managers tactics.
Here's to a good Sunday! Hope the youth get a chance during the week for the champions league.
-JakeW
We might actually get central midfielders into the attacking third! Let's hope SAF chooses this lineup as well. No Nani, no evra. -KG
30 Sep 2012 00:10:02
Anyone see the size of Fergies watch? Pity it doesnt work!