Manchester United Banter Archive March 03 2013

03 Mar 2013 21:38:19
Does anyone think that getting both Lewandowski and Ronaldo is plausible? If we could get Ronaldo, Lewandowski, Strootman and Zouma in then the squad would be perfect. Obviously we would have to off load Scholes, Nani, Hernandez and perhaps Valencia to achieve this, but its well worth it!

I see us signing 1, at a stretch 2 of those.

As much as I'd like it to be true, I can only imagine that all the Ronaldo talk is over hyped gossip, doing the rounds like Chinese whispers with people changing the story slightly.

I don't know what the situation is with Rio at the moment (anyone?) but unless we see a cb leave I can't see Zouma coming in and even then I'm not sure it would be him, if anyone, it depends if Jones is kept in this cm role.

I'm not convinced we're going to see a CM coming in either, I'm much more content with the options we have there now than I was a year ago and I can't see Fergie spending on a cm this summer.

Lewandowski, a lot of talk, my personal opinion, a very good player, but a luxary that we don't need at the moment. Everyone goes on about Rooney dropping into a midfield role but I think recently he has shown just how good he is where he is at the moment and I can't see him being moved. Even if either of Welbeck or Hernandez were to leave I can't see a player of Lewandowski's quality being happy to play second fiddle to Rooney and Van Persie.

Just a quick mention as well, I know he's had his chances but I really don't want to see Nani leave, as a player I think he has that 'something', and I think he's the best winger on our books right now, I wouldn't see the logic behind letting him go, unless he himself was set on leaving.

TM

04 Mar 2013 13:21:02
So you don't see us buying a centre back or midfielders so where do you see us spending money? Also your happy with our midfield options? Really? We are so reliant on Carrick its scary. One bad tackle. Scholes sadly can't perform. Same with Fletcher. Anderson has shown he's not an option. He's been good when fit but the biggest problem is keeping him fit and we can't keep making allowances for him. Cleverley is good and then there's nothing. We have a top class Carrick a good Cleverley an injury prone Anderson, a sick Fletcher and an in decline Scholes and then forty year old Giggs and an unproven Powell. Not really good enough for me but if your happy.

No, if you read it carefully you'll see I said I'm more happy with the midfield situation than I was a year ago, actually being happy with our cm options is not at all what I was saying.

Ideally yes I'd like a new arrival but that's just my opinion, and in reality I don't think Fergie will invest in a CM at the moment, but my point is i'm less concerned with that area now than I was a year ago.

I think Carrick, Cleverly and Anderson's form have all improved, and we've got Kagawa in and Jones has looked good when used there.

I've not actually said we aren't going to sign players if you look at what I've said. We already have Zaha coming in, it wouldn't surprise me if a CB comes in but I'm not convinced it would be Zouma and I think it's more likely if one of our current bunch leaves first.

It's very much the same for the other roles. Our squad is strong and has plenty of depth, it's a squad that I personally think Sir Alex is more than happy with so I really think any arrivals are dependent on players leaving.

Quick note, perhaps a GK in I can see Lindegaard going in the summer.

TM {Ed004's Note - I reckon I would be thrilled with a a summer of Nani, Rooney and possibly Evra (if funds for a left back would be there) leaving then incoming Baines (could wait a season and save funds), Strootman, Rodriguez and and Ronaldo. I know this is unrealistic but by selling Rooney and Nani it would surely cover the fees of both Rodriguez and Strootman and then spend all transfer budget on Ronaldo and if any money is left go for Baines. I reckon rio could play 1 more season and then next season we would only need to look at cb and possibly cm. You could even sell one of young or Valencia as welbeck can cover the wings and Zaha is coming in, but I reckon I would keep them both for one more season}

Need midfielders. End of

03 Mar 2013 19:07:49
With kagawa showing his class and the possibility of ronaldo, we would have the best attack in the world in my opinion. I think the only other piece of the puzzle I would like to see would be wanyama as a holding midfielder, boy can play and been brilliant in all champions league for celtic, 12-15 million should get him. Any thoughts ed? {Ed004's Note - I'd love to see wanyama play. I was impressed with how good he was on the ball for Celtic. He needs to quicken up his play at times}

Kagawa showing his class! he's had 1 good game from how many. dreamer

I have to say I'm not entirely convinced about Wanyama. He seems to struggle when he isn't given time on the ball IMO. The game against St Mirren at the weekend was a prime example. St Mirren worked so hard to close Celtic down all over the pitch and Wanyama gave the ball away on several occasions due to being closed down. I'm not saying he isn't a good player but he has a way to go before I'm convinced he is worth the money being quoted.

TK-Red

Strootman or Lars Bender for me.

Sydney!

03 Mar 2013 17:58:51
At this difficult time, let's spare a thought for our good friend Stoner. He clings to hope but his team are no longer the biggest team in London. Let's pray for him, he needs our support.

#Prayforstoner

Our thoughts are with you at this dark time Stoner.

Sydney!

Best wishes during this hard time.

03 Mar 2013 18:56:19
Thank you guys, as you can imagine it's a dark dark day, I'm thankful that someone is thinking of me, it is only having read this that I've come back down off the bridge.

I feel I will come through the other side with your continued support and am grateful that the fixtures have been kind to us and our next game is an easy away trip to Germany.

Keeping the faith.

Send us a pic stoner and we'll get the t-shirts ready.

03 Mar 2013 16:50:03
Had a really odd dream last night, it was the year 2023 and United had just won their 27th League title and 8th Champions League. Manager Sir Alex Ferguson said he was very pleased and might consider retiring 'in the next 5 or 6 years. Sir Ryan Giggs played his 1, 200th game for the club and credited pole dancing with keeping him fit. Liverpool Manager, Jamie Carragher asked fans to be patient after a 32nd year without the title. He was quoted as saying 'we're in transition, maybe next year la' whilst Chelsea appointed their 8th Manager of the year and still only finished 4th. It all seemed very odd but who knows

03 Mar 2013 17:50:01
Lay off the cheese before bed lad. Dreaming about Carragher, that's a nightmare surely.

It really was a strange dream their is no way you could understand what carragher said --------phil

03 Mar 2013 16:21:17
People will be keeping a close eye on Bale today to see if he can still be as influential in a game of this magnitude. If he wants to get to the next level he needs to be consistent against Spurs' biggest rivals. He is on my dreamteam so an hat-trick would do nicely.

Sydney!

Could do with a Walcott hat-trick too. Cannot believe I swapped Cazorla for Walcott : (

Sydney!

He's not done too badly so far.

I trail my friend this week by one point, he has lennon I have walcott, not looking good for me.

I'm now top of the football rumours table. You will be glad to know i'm a united fan

Adam Dean

03 Mar 2013 15:37:20
I think SAF may surprise us again on Tuesday. Ferdinand has flu so may not make it which mean the back 4 pick themselves. RVP will be upfront but I think we'll have a 5 again. Not convinced but I see Young playing to double up on Ronaldo, particularly if Jones isn't fit. Carrick is a cert as is Rooney (not sure where though) so that leaves 2 from Cleverley, Anderson, Kagawa, Giggs, Nani, and Jones if he is fit. Personally, if Jones is fit, I would play Young, Carrick, Jones (to handle Ronnie again) Rooney and Kagawa but with Rooney playing behind RVP and Kagawa out wide. There's a lot of fluidity there with Carrick trying to dictate the play and Jones marauding around. Wemalsohave the option of the frustrating Nani who could win the game for us, or have it pass him by. Lol, glad I'm not a Manager

It really is incredible the number of possible options we have to choose from all over the pitch. So many tough decisions it's impossible to call IMO.

Whatever people say about the strength of our starting 11 our squad is far deeper than ever. For just the 2 wide positions (depending on formation) it could be any 2 from 6 Rooney, Kagawa, Welbeck, Valencia, Nani or Young.

Like you said, glad I'm not manager!

Welbeck will play a part I'm sure.

Sydney! {Ed004's Note - Do you reckon after recent performances he might have played his way back into the united squad for next season? I ask as it looks like Lewandowksi is a very likely move in the summer and surely a striker will leave or will Welbeck offer cover for the wings. I'm pretty sure Zaha doesn't require a place in the 25 man squad next season and nor would Zouma if he replaces Rio/Vidic}

Id go for

de gea, rafael vidic evans evra, young carrick cleverley welbeck, rooney RVP

id pick rio ahead of vidic if he's fit.
if jones is fit the i'd have him over cleverley.

I am not convinced Welbeck is the player Lewandowski would replace if signed. Rooney or Hernandez seem more likely to me. I imagine a lot is dependent on what happens in regards to Rooney's contract talk. SAF clearly wants Lewandowski and you can see why, but Lewandowski will want to play so for me that would mean (1) Rooney is sold, (2) Rooney moves to midfield, or (3) they all play (RvP, Rooney & Lewy) in a diamond formation?

Sydney! {Ed004's Note - What about Welbeck being cover for wings and the strikers?}

Ed004 - personally I'd be surpised if SAF was looking at selling Welbeck right now given he's an academy product. I think he sees the value in keeping such players in the squad for a while, especially when they are still young and developing.

If we had to sell a striker Welbeck would be my choice but I'd be worried that Hernandez would more likely give way. Personally, I'd stick with the 4 we've got so long as they're all happy. I'd concentrate on CM and LW, then address LB if there's any money left. {Ed004's Note - I agree though it appears Saf thinks Lewandowski is too good to turn down?}

Oops, forgot about Welbeck

Isn't Welbeck already that player? If we bought Lewandowski, Zaha & possibly Rodriguez would Welbeck ever get a game? A striker will need to be sold or moved to midfield. The question is, is Rooney good enough for the midfield? Is he worth £200k+ a week to play in midfield?

Sydney! {Ed004's Note - I suppose I like welbeck but I think he will be sold}

The squad is already deep so if we buy top players someone will have to leave

Ed004, that is certainly possible. Sell him for £12m-£14m and put in a first option buyback clause. Sooner or later he will start to tick and playing regularly as a striker is the only way that will happen. He will never play regularly enough for us so may not reach his potential here. On the other hand he is a local lad and the club will not want to let go of him unless someone like Lewy is signed.

It still doesn't solve the Lewy, Rooney & RvP issue though.

Sydney! {Ed004's Note - They will all be rotated and its good to have competition in a squad and if Rooney doesn't get back into shape he will suffer the most I fear. Though you can still play all 3 in a diamond or Rooney out wide which is the one I would stay away from the most}

I don't think the club will let the next England #9 leave. We love Hernandez, as I am sure the manager does, but I think he will be the one to go to accomodate Lewandowski. His versatility is also hugely important.

Lets put it this way. Welbeck will get games out wide and the occasional game down the middle. He is also a hard worker and good in the big games (e. g at the Bernabeau) - he is also a handful. Compare this to Hernandez who is a good finisher but offers little else. Despite the fact that we love his attitude he realistically would not offer enough to get ahead of RVP and Lewandowski.

We also have to consider that RVP will be 30 next year, so he will be rotated more. But what better replacement is there than Lewandowski?

Fresh, so if RvP is 29 years, 11 month and 30 days he plays all the time, but when he turns 30 we need to rest him? Luckily for us RvP has spent most of his playing career injured, that and not having to rely on speed means he could realistically play until his mid-30's no problem. Lewandowski will not join to sit on the bench as RvP's replacement, he will want to play regularly and that IMO could be at the expense of Rooney in the forward line. We will see.

Sydney!

I'm not saying that RVP needs to be rested. But there will be more rotation without a doubt.

Ed004, but then you need to question is Rooney worth his salary or worth missing out on a big selling fee, just for him to be rotated? It's about getting the balance right. Rooney & Nani sold would fund our summer transfers. Or would it be better to keep Rooney as a United player rotating with Kagawa or Lewy or whoever whilst he is on a fatter salalry than everyone else and with his value plummeting year by year?

Sydney! {Ed004's Note - I think unless Rooney comes back a new man over the summer, fitter and more determined then we will have to seriously consider selling him as his value will keep decreasing and due to Rooneys build he will not imo be able to play into his mid 30's and we will start to see a decline}

Fresh, without a doubt mate, but Lewandowski will not join to sit on the bench. He has other options available to him so why would he join us if he knows Rooney and RvP are going to play ahead of him in the big games?

Sydney!

Ed004, a decline started a year or two ago to be fair, but not everyone can see that or they choose not to. It's anyone's guess how long he can play at a top level for, but the dip has begun so it's about the club deciding when is the best time to sell. I think they may do that this summer before his physical decline is more obvious to other clubs. The reason I think PSG will be interested is because they are looking to add massive commercial deals and Rooney could spearhead that.

Sydney! {Ed004's Note - But how could you convince Rooney to go there. He earns a fortune here and he is the brightest so language barrier could be an issue. Also Suarez, falcao, Higuain and Cavani are all available for same price as a declining Rooney}

I think that we'll struggle to get rid, even if we want to.

Ed004, I do not think Rooney agreeing a move is an issue as it will be a huge financial package and Paris is an hour flight away from England. Not that Coleen wouldn't want to open up a shop in Paris. I think what could be difficult is PSG wanting him above one or two others. A lot of things need to happen for a sale to be agreed which is why it's more likely he will stay at the club, but I wouldn't be surprised to see him leave.

Sydney! {Ed004's Note - Tbh if the money is to be reinvested in two quality players then I wouldn't be against selling Rooney. As I feel there are just as hard a worker as Rooney at other clubs, who are fitter, faster and better technically as well as being young enough to improve. If Rooney is sold I think Gotze or Ozil would be the ideal replacement}

I would sell Rooney any day before I sell Hernandez. Rooney is no longer consistent, and no longer hungry. He also comes in a stone overweight for pre season. He's taking the puss.

Welbeck won't go fergy rates him he's not long signed a new contract is still only 22 and still developing, fergy seems to have high hopes for the lad and its not his style to sell this type of player, fergy normally also works to a longer plan than to give a young player a big new contract only to decide he is surplus to requirements 12 month later

Rooney is a top player plays a number of positions with no complaints and still scores and gets assist, not having a great season but if fit he plays, 1 of only 4 players guaranteed a first 11 place along with evra, Carrick and Rvp.
Kagawa, just signed no chance of leaving not had a great season but no doubting the lads ability if he can adapt to the EPL should be much improved next season. Imo will take over the Rooney role in a few year, much the same as smalling Ferdinand, vidic Jones, cleverly Carrick.
Rvp is a very good second striker but is a world class out an out striker, for all the big games Rvp will play up top with a player behind probably Rooney or kags.
Hernandez, top finisher not sure his all round game is good enough to be a guaranteed starter at a top club but is a great impact player from the bench, rumours are he's not happy with playing time will be 25 in the summer may feel it's time to be playing every week.
If we sign lewandowski I would think Hernandez would be the one to go that would leave Rvp, welbeck kagawa Rooney and lewandowski due to the number of positions they can play I think all could be rotated,

04 Mar 2013 01:09:50
You are all joking right?

why are you all so bothered about money and selling our top players? We are one of the best clubs in the world and try not to be a selling team, top players can stay at utd til they retire. We don't (or try not to) ship people out for a profit because that is not the only way to make money from a player. Winning trophies is a much better way to make money and keeping your best players is the best way to do that.

EkD.

03 Mar 2013 14:52:57
Any hope for Jones for the Madrid clash?
If not, who do you think would mark CR7? If I had to choose one name, I'd pick Vidic. Or Smalling. In that order. Anyone but Rooney, looks like he might be gaining form and I wouldn't wanna waste his game on marking Ronnie. Thoughts?

Rooney. He's world class, he always puts a shift in, he never let's us down, he's the heartbeat of the team, etc etc

Vidic would get slaughtered by ronaldo, why would you want vidic in right back position, it wouldn't work.

Jones did a good job but lost him with Ronaldo's goal. I think the best bet seeing as Jones is unlikely at best and even if he could make it would it be fair to expect a 21yo to man mark Ronaldo in his first game back from injury?

So I think a 433 with the wider players in the midfield three helping by doubling up with the full backs depending on which side Ronaldo decides to play on to help mark him out of the game as best possible.

03 Mar 2013 15:37:13
Wayne Rooney = Fernando Torres = Simple, what once was is no longer.

03 Mar 2013 15:57:02
There's just one teeny little almost inconsequential flaw with that Stoner. Torres couldn't hit a cows butt with a double bass with a run up whereas Rooney still scores and assists. Like I say almost a meaningless little flaw.

A bit like arsenal you could say stoner.

Stoner

That's a bit like Arsenal FC isn't it "what once was is no longer"?

03 Mar 2013 17:18:53
Always the sidestep and Honey you def don't get IT.

It's like looking in a mirror.

03 Mar 2013 17:22:05
Yes Mort,

Very similar to Torres occasionally showing glimpses of what was. But don't let those blinkers spoil your view.

Stoner, shouldn't you be watching your team become the 3rd best side in London?

I'd heard somewhere that IT's a kind of magic?

03 Mar 2013 21:14:36
No IT is honestly straightforward, my reply to KLOOT was the obvious one with the cr4p about the ski diving at the end of it. I know it's wasted but its been fun.

03 Mar 2013 14:26:57
Right i've so far steered clear of the Rooney debate and I will do as to whether he has a place with us long term as I am genuinely on the fence about that. But I can say that he didn't have a great game yesterday despite what some say.

I've seen a few posters trot out a couple of statistics to try and prove their point. This is the problem with using Stats to argue a point as unless you are using ALL of the stats you are painting a false picture of a player.

Yes he scored and yes he got two assists but that isn't even half the story of Wayne's game yesterday.

The main complaint is Rooney gives the ball away too much, so let's look at the whole teams passing stats to see if this is true:

KP= Key passes, P= Passes made, PC= Passes completed (%) D= Dispossesed

Smalling-KP-1 P-50 PC-90%-D-1
Evans-KP-0, P-71, PC-89%-D-0
Vidic-KP-0, P-55, PC-93%-D-0
Evra-KP-0, P-47, PC-94%-D-2
Anderson-KP-0, P-57, PC-94%-D-0
Carrick-KP-1, P-119, PC-94%-D-0
Valencia-KP-3, P-41, PC-88%-D-1
Rooney-KP-5, P-64, PC-80%-D-2
Kagawa-KP-3, P-76, PC-92%-D-1
RVP-KP-3, P-16, PC-81%-D-1
Cleverley-KP-0, P-27, PC-89%-D-0
Welbeck-KP-1, P-25, PC-100%-D-0

Now if you look at these stats you see Rooney had the lowest Pass completion rate at 80%, although he did make the forth highest passer with 64 attempted. He was also dispossessed twice equal with Evra which considering his strength you'd have to put down to poor touch. On a more positive note he also made the most amount of Key passes which shows he is trying more expansive passes than his team mates which might give us a clue as to why his pass completion rate is so low.

I was mores suprised at how poor RVP was in the game overall but he did take a heavy knock last week and he took another one in this game too.

I think what we can take from this game is Rooney needs to improve his touch and his passing accuracy and his pass selection. As he is giving the ball away too much. But even though he isn't playing at his best he is still a key player for us and always seems to be insturmental to the goals we score.

It's the old addage that we play better with Rooney in the team but he doesn't always play as well as we expect him to.

I've always been of the opinion that Rooney needs a rest during the summer as he always gives his all during a game. If you look back at Rooney's best seasons with us it tends to be a season before a major international tourdament not the season after one. I think he needs a decent rest in the summer and a full pre season to get himself in the right shape and frame of mind to play his best football. I expect better things from him next season. if he's still here.

Anderson's Pass completion rate was 84%. Sorry for the typo. lol

RVP only has 1% higher, guess KLOOT doesn't see those misplaced passes.

Shappy - I don't see how that proves Rooney had a bad game TBH. I've got a few observations/questions:

1. Rooney is a forward and tries more risky balls so wouldn't expect his pass completion to be that of Carrick or Ando, for instance. His and RVP's (the player who plays in most similar position) were very similar.

2. Surely for a forward goals and assists are more important than pass completion anyway?

3. Rooney made the highest number of key passes on 5. Only two others managed 3 even and then a couple had 1 each. Surely that's quite impressive? Key passes often win games.

4. You say look at ALL the stats but surely if you add his goal and 2 assists to those passing stats it gives a good overall picture?

Most key passes (by far), 3rd most passes in total, 2 tidy assists, 1 excellent goal BUT a pass completion of only 80% - doesn't read that bad to me. I'd say Carrick and Kagawa were the only players it would be fair to say excelled above Rooney yesterday. And they both played stormer's in fairness to them.

Sometimes I think we get too hung up on Rooney's lack of technique/first touch. He doesn't have that level of a Silva/Oezil/Mata type player but he often makes up for it through power, drive and goal scoring ability.

Still hoping he keeps upping his game between now and summer. And I fully accept there may me a decision to be made over his long term future, given the huge wage he is on. But I think he contributed greatly to the win yesterday regarldess of poor pass completion.

I think I was abit harsh saying he had a bad game, I was pissed off at the time having seen a few newspapers say he was our best player yesterday, and several fans jump on it and just believe it. Your right he was probably our third best player yesterday behind Kagawa and Carrick with Evans in forth imo.

Inncedently Rooney made the forth most passes yesterday actually as Evans made 71 with a sucess rate of 89%.

I do state that the reason behind Rooney's less than impressive pass sucess rate was due to the types of passes he makes and where he plays.
But he still had the worst pass sucess rate of all our outfield players, you have to except this isn't good enough from our best paid player and someone who is supposedly world class.

I think more than anything it shows that he clearly doesn't have the ability to play in the heart of midfield either now or in the future.

I like Rooney and I do support him when he plays for us, but he does have areas he needs to work and improve on. I would question his desire to be one of the best players in the world.

But he is a key player for us and I wouldn't insist on selling him even based on his current form, but his recent form and his huge wage coupled with his age and his contract situation does pose the question on whether we should stick or twist in the summer.

I heard his pass completion was 62% (Obviously wrong) so I think I'd take the trade off to be honest 80% with 2 assists and a goal seems pretty damned good

I think the 62% stat was for the first 60-70 minutes of the game but he massively improved in the last 20 mins or so.

I agree that Rooney should never be a CM, he offers a lot more further forward.

It'll be interesting to see what becomes of him this summer, I think we all expect that SAF will not have forgotten Rooney's past 'misdjudgement' shall we say so I wouldn't be too shocked if he goes. But I would worry we'd find it hard to replace his goals and 'drive' on the pitch.

03 Mar 2013 12:55:16
The debate about Rooney is annoying. He is a very talented player, and when he plays well, the team plays well and we win. When he plays badly, the teams plays badly. He has scored plenty of goals this and has created many more. 50 goals last 72 games. His passing is superb, and his shooting is still top notch. All in all, a top class player that we expect too much from almost. Come the summer, keep Rooney, sell Valencia, and then sell either Young or Nani, and sign Gotze, and then either Sanchez or Di Maria to replace them. Then sign Hummels and Cabaye to sure up the defence and midfield.

This debate comes up about 4-5 times a season, behind Van Persie he is our best player and would get into every team in the world (exl Barcelona). I love how when he comes back after a few weeks out from injury, he shows everybody why he is in the team!

Great player, and on his day is world class.
But there is no doubt that he is missing the consistency this season which will take him to the next level.
I wouldn't sell him though, i'm glad we have him and even in a below par season for him his goals and assists stats are still good.
Will Red {Ed004's Note - For people that are interested in stats. Carrick made 119 passes yesterday 94% accuracy and 66% went forward}

I'm not sure anyone wants to sell Rooney per se, it's just most have identified this summer as being a crucial one due to the likelihood of contract negotiations taking place. In a business sense it makes sense to sell now, on the other hand he still offers a lot and he is still a top player. It will be a big summer for him.

Sydney!

Rooney is a great player, but his passing is by no means superb. Pirlo, Scholes, Totti, Silva, Xavi and Iniesta are superb passers. Rooney's passing is hit and miss. He can misplace a 5 yard pass and seconds later produce a diagonal 50 yard pass.

Mick - this is true, which is why I think we should keep Rooney up top alongside RVP. We need a top CM to sit alongside Carrick which will give us a solid base to go forward from. Rooney should be allowed to work hard for the team and chase things down but tell him to do so in the attacking 3rd where his potency in front of goal counts for something. I agree his short passing is not great, which is why I've always been against the idea of Rooney dropping into midfield.

Badger, it's all well and good saying we should keep Rooney and I agree to an extent, but what if he tells the United board he wants a raise to over £200k a week? What then? Then on the other hand there's PSG willing to offer £40m+ for him (for example). I cannot imagine for one moment Rooney and Stretford agreeing to what United offer him. If Rooney does have two years left on his current deal and it's not a Berbatov type contract where United have an option to extend, I think this could be a defining summer for Rooney.

Sydney!

Sydney, I actually agree with you. I understand we have a decision to make on Rooney this summer with 2 years left on his contract. I don't think he deserves a pay rise TBH so if he demanded one I'd seriously consider selling. Whether we should sell him or not depends on what fee we get offered, what replacement we can find, whether we can replace his goals etc. I'm glad it's not my decision as it's a tough one. I certainly wouldn't sell him unless we had a big offer as his goals alone would be very expensive to replace. 50 in last 72 games I think?

My pro-Rooney posts are primarily in response to those who don't value his contribution to the team. I think he is still very dangerous in attacking positions and always works hard.

However, I fully understand that sometimes money talks and decisions need to be made.

03 Mar 2013 16:48:30
I think this could be one of the last things Gill deals with. I'd imagine he'll sit down with Stretford and see what the proposal is. If we don't like it then that's it. My only concern would be if all the funds would be released to buy adequate replacements. Someone like Lewandowski would easily fall into the budget but someone like Gotze or Rodriguez would cost top dollar. If Rooney does truly love the club or regrets how the last negotiations went then he'll be sensible. Personally i'd far rather he stayed and we spent the summer after midfielders instead rather than selling and replacing Rooney as well as looking at midfield.

Badger, 100% agree, it would be a massive decision. But if Lewandowski has agreed "in principal" to join us this summer. Just like Kagawa done unofficial a year earlier. There will be less pressure for the manager to sell. Does Rooney expect to go this summer, was that what he agreed when he signed a new deal? Has buying RvP & Kagawa been to prepare Rooney for an exit? Would Lewandowski be the last piece of the puzzle? It will be a telling summer, but not a worrying one for me as if Rooney is swapped for Lewy we still have a great attack, plus we would be able to strengthen the wing and midfield. And if Rooney stays we still have the excellence of him.

Sydney! {Ed004's Note - I reckon if Rooney is sold we will have to buy another winger or central player to make up for his impact. If Rooney and Nani is sold surely there will be enough for two of Gotze, Isco, bale, Ronaldo, Rodriguez, Ozil etc maybe money will have to be added for some of them. I'd love Gotze signed so possibly another left footer}

Mort, fair point, but what if the manager, Gill, Glazers etc know the only chance of getting top dollar for Rooney is if they sell now? Rooney and Nani would fund the rebuild and SAF's targets (Rodriguez, Strootman, Lewy) are all available this summer. Plus selling Rooney & Nani for £60m (odd), would make the finances look very very healthy. I'm sure the manager knows what he is doing and either way I will be happy.

Sydney!

Rodriguez, RvP, Kagawa & Lewandowski would be more than enough I would think Ed. Rodriguez could be a real star.

Sydney! {Ed004's Note - I reckon from next season we will start to see a fluid front 4. It will be either RVP or Lewandowski up top for the big games and Rodriguez on the right, kagawa central and then you need another for the left wing or right wing if Rodriguez plays on the left or even centrally as Kagawa can go out wide left. Therefore IMO a fluid player needs to be signed. Ideally one of Bale, Gotze, Ronaldo or Isco. Isco would probably be the last resort as he doesn't work as hard as the first two and Ronaldo is the best/2nd best player in the world. You would then have fluid options of Gotze/Bale and Rodriguez both of whom work hard for teams who sit deep then you have Zaha, Young and Valencia for when we have to sit deep and counter. If Rooney is sold I could still see Welbeck possibly being sold as he will never be prolific and having a front 3 of RVP Hernandez and Lewandowski is very good. Then all you really need is one midfielder in Strootman and possibly a cb as I can't see a lb being signed}

03 Mar 2013 12:37:23
Looks like kagawa proved the haters wrong! {Ed004's Note - Tbf one game does not prove the haters wrong he needs to consistently play like this, though he is showing glimpses of what he is capable of and next year he will be phenomenal}

If we get Lewandowski, kags will be awesome
Nat

Kagawa needs a run of games like most players do. SAF summed it up perfectly himself, next season he will be much better.

Sydney!

Kagawa was exceptional, he oozed class throughout. If he can get a run and be consistent we have a real gem.

03 Mar 2013 15:15:18
Imagine if he hadn't have had that ten week injury lay off. Looking forward to next season.

03 Mar 2013 12:14:19
Once again yesterday shows us exactly what our season has been all about. For 70 minutes we didn't play well and hardly tested their keeper but still managed to grind out a victory. Anderson looked back to his fat useless one footed best. Cleverley replaced him and looked like he forgot we were playing in red as he mis hit passes everywhere. This season has all been about a manager who always says its not about how you handle victory its about how you deal with defeat and he was not prepared to accept it from our noisy neighbours. He has done this everytime that a team has come along and won the league from us. It is his greatest strength and what separates him from his competition.

So perhaps he should stay on as director then eh?

Sydney!

KLOOT have you ever been happy? Not just with the team/club, in general.

If I hadn't seen such riches I could live with being poor

Great reply kloot.

Try something original Kloot, the quotes from Manchester groups (James) has become tedious at best.

03 Mar 2013 11:28:58
I predict 1-1 Tuesday extra time an penalties.

Supasub

Giggs better not start!

That wouldn't surprise me either TBH. Though it's a tough one to call.

I am pretty sure Giggs will start hopefully on the left wing

03 Mar 2013 11:09:56
wow some people really can't give Wazza a break can they, Come on peeps he had a very good game yesterday, he dropped deep he pushed forward, his link up play was decent and he moved norwich all over the place creating space for Kags and other u work in, sometimes I think we just judge him by such high standards 2 assists and a wonder goal was a very good days work. There are plenty of players I can think of (not from utd I might add) that would of put a half arsed performance with our biggest game of the season comming up but he gave 100%. I mean in all honesty RVP didn't have a amazing game but he get no where near the slating rooney does.
Yes it was against norwich.
Yes he should be able to look good against them and he did so let's give him our support like we do with every1 else because against madrid we will need every1 behind the lads to win. We are United in name and should be in our support of the players we have, if he goes t the end of the season he goes but till then we need him more than ANY1 in our team the boy is so selfless, he will be played in about 3-4 posistions tuesday and will be trusted by Fergie to do a job anywhere he is put. I know he has been hit and miss this season but he seems to be coming good when it matters and with our support could be the difference.

Good post. I thought he was decent yesterday and provided a lot of the moments that won us the game. It's a good point on RVP, he was anomonous at times and put a few wayward shots into the crowd - if that was Rooney he would be slated on this site and people would say he was 'dragged off' before 60 mins.

Rooney is clearly not as 'sharp' as he used to be but he's trying to adapt his game. Along with Carrick and Kagawa, Rooney was pivotal in getting the 3 points yesterday.

He does need to keep stepping up now though until the summer IMO. But a step in the right direction nonetheless.

No matter his faults we are still better with him than without him

Chris, his goal was excellent, and his game came together well in the last 20 minutes.

But everyone on here praising him to the heavens, can't have been watching the game up til that point.

The first 70 minutes were mediocre from a player who is supposed to be one of the best in the world, and it hasn't been just one game against Norwich.

As one of our top players, we need him to step up for more than 20 minutes a game, 3 or 4 months a season.

He has put himself in a position where he is our top earner, and that carries a certain amount of responsibility, not least a requirement for him to turn up, not when we're 3-0 up against Norwich and all the work has been done, but from the start, against big clubs, and taking a game by the scruff of the neck.

Right so in future we shall tell kags ''look I know u want to score but rooney is our top earner and he must score first''?
The whole team was pedestrian in the first half really, totally in control but pedestrian, To swig the argument around u could say the team was pedestrian untill rooney came to life.
I really dnt care who scores for my team at this point of the season as long as we win, ill take a scappy 1-0 win with a vidic header over a 4-4 draw with a rooney hatrick any day.
All I was pointing out was we need to get behind our best players at this cruical point of the season and a poor performance with two assists and a cracking goal from rooney ill take every game thank u if I was offered it now. Regardless if we play amazing football to get that it doesn't matter, its the buisness part of the season now and this how we always win titles, we know how to grind out a win if we need to and games against norwich and qpr at this part of the season have always been games where we have had to in the past on the way to the league title.
Im not a rooney lover or anything but can appreciate the work he puts in to cover for a bad midfield and untill this season decent attacking line.
Yes he held our club to ransom to get much more money but his agent is just as behind a move like that than rooney himself, plus we all KNOW fergie will never forget that and to some extent rooney does too i'm guessing, so to me I like rooney the player and he does make us better, but as a player to, I will never grow attached to him because fergie never forgets lol

Chris, it's nothing to do with scoring goals, unless he's playing up top on his own.

If he's playing anywhere else, I just want him to pass the ball, accurately, to one of his own team, and control a football.

On form, he is not 'world class' like some on here say, but he's a good player to have in the team.

The crucial part being, 'on form'. I personally don't think he's been in anywhere near good enough form to guarantee an automatic starting spot. His supporters on here have been pretty quiet about him recently due to his average form. Not now tho!

They're all back on here now, praising him like the Messiah because of a good 20 minutes against tiring opposition.

The last 20 mins of the Norwich game is a step in the right direction, and I hope he does kick on from there, because, believe it or not, I want the club to do well, and an on form Rooney will help with that. But there have been too many false dawns with him of late, so excuse me if I keep my knickers untwisted for now.

Stevie K, who's prasing him like the messiah?

On this thread for instance, Chris said 'he had a very good game', I said 'he had a decent game' and Pardoe said 'we are still better with him than without him'. I'd agree with all those comments (especially mine lol) and I've not seen many comments that he is world class or the next messiah.

Most people have even acknowledged that he needs to keep up his performance level or even improve it.

I think some poster's (me included) are glad that Rooney made a telling contribution yesterday in the face of some recent comments about him. I'd say Carrick, Kagawa and Rooney were our best players yesterday regardless of his pass completion rate. On the day, he contributed a hell of a lot more than RVP, for instance, who quite rightly does not come in for critisism on this site.

Gav, there are some who only come on here when Rooney's name comes up, which makes me think they support Rooney as much as the club.

This thread is quite sensible, but there are others on here who have repeatedly come out with the 'on his day, he's world-class' comments.

A reality check wouldn't go amiss.

I'm not one to cut my nose off to spite my face. I don't like him, but I know when he plays well, Utd play well, so I want him to do well, despite what some of his fans think.

03 Mar 2013 07:19:17
Still wanna sell Rooney peeps. 1 goal 2 assists! Man of match.

Man of the match for 15 minutes

AJH

Oh you are so right he scores the last goal when we are already 3-0 up against a team that had given up at that point. And as for assists they were both 6 yard passes. Forget about the 70 minutes when he was the reason that the quick passing between Kagawa RVP and him broke down. Did you see Snodgrass run away from him when we were under pressure in the second half. I am not saying that wasn't a great strike but look at when it was and what impact it had on the game. Compared to Kagawa and the sublime Carrick who gave a masterclass on passing he was a passenger for most of the games. But yes you are so right he is the greatest player ever and England will win the world cup because of him

"But yes you are so right he is the greatest player ever and England will win the world cup because of him"

I'm getting that you are a little hung up on this, KLOOT? You got all that from the OP, lol.

Kloot, Rooney had a great game, his passing was very good as always, his movement was very good as always, and I think he suffered from having Anderson behind him who never played the ball through. Plus Rooney played some quality passes and scored a great goal. Carrick was class, passed the ball for fun and created many chances, including two of the goals, and the defence was thankfully very solid.

"Assists were 6 yard passes"

Incredible! People have a problem with him trying to play hollywood balls and also have a problem with him setting someone up with a "6 yard assist". And if all 6 yard passes were assists, we would be on 300 goals for the season. "Vision" has no role in an assist right?

03 Mar 2013 14:13:41
If he is getting criticised that his assists aren't long enough then he doesn't really stand a chance. I agree its not his best season as he hasn't been consistent enough but the season isn't over yet and i'm glad we have him fit and hopefully finding form for the run in.
Some on here just don't like him and it doesn't really matter what he does they will allways find some negatives.
Will Red

Some of us have a problem with him trying to make Hollywood passes, when he is having trouble making the simple ones.

03 Mar 2013 00:49:14
Hate to be the bearer of bad news but Liverpool can still win the title with 10 games to go.

29points behind with 30 still to play for!

It'll go down to the wire this one.

Safwetrust87

If we lose all our matches, and they win all theirs, they will finish above us. Although i'm not sure which one is less likely.

Us losing all of our matches is definitely more likely than liverpool winning 10 games in a row.
KARTOFFELKOPF

Using all my fingers and toes and half my missus' fingers and toes I've realised you're right Mick. The eternal optimists can still do it! Now that Norwich is out of the way am I the only one who's getting butterflies at the thoughts of Tuesday night. ? I think we should start Hernandez yet I know we won't. Real will push up and play a high line because they need a goal. I think Hernandez' movement can cause them all sorts of problem. But I don't think he'll start, SAF will prob start with the same team as the 1st leg.
BennyBlanco