Manchester United Banter Archive November 03 2013

 

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03 Nov 2013 21:32:39
it seems are main problem.is the lack.of pace in cm. do u think its worth playing kagawa with carrick in a 4231 with januzaj rooney and valencia behind rvp? rooney can drop back aswell, helping kags and carrick which could allow kagawa to move forward. thoughts?

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Wouln't work, Shinji is struggling with the physical side of the game as it is. He wouldn't cope in the engine room unless he had a bruiser alongside him.

I think we need to switch to 3 in midfield. Most likely Carrick, Cleverley & Fellaini with Jones filling in when needed till we can bring in another signing or someone else can step up.

I've given up on Anderson.

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Rumour has it Kagawa told he's surplus to requirements and is re signing for Dortmund

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The best player we could sign to play in the holding 2 is Luka Modric when he's played there for madrid he has looked unreal and is playing the same role as scholes would, he just controls the tempo of every game there

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Pardoe,

I'm not saying you are wrong but kagawa has played 2.5 of the last4 games, and only missed the carling cup, a little strange for a player who is surplus to requirements surely?

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GDS2 I agree but I'm still pretty sure Kagawa will never get proper playing time with United. Moyes just doesn't fancy him is my opinion

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If Rvp gets injured which let's be honest isn't too unlikely, we'll want Kagawa playing centrally just behind Rooney and i'm confident Moyes has thought of that. I can't see him going back to Dortmund not for a few years anyway.

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Agree Ozwald. I don't want him to leave as I feel we would be losing a tremendous talent.

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03 Nov 2013 16:10:10
Liverpool fan in peace here. I've been slated by my own fans saying that Arsenal aren't genuinely title contenders. They deserved the win but at times, they looked shaky. Any team that has a real midfield could actually beat them. They're beatable but everyone loves Arsenal- they're media darlings! We have a rubbishter midfield than yours!

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Arsenal have some great players but they lack team balance imo, and they are lacking in some positions.

Their goalkeeper is shaky at times.

Both of their full back positions are not good enough.
Gibbs is very injury prone, Monreal is average and Sagna, while solid defensively, lacks any sort of ability on the ball.

Their defense is solid, but it has it's weaknesses. Mertesaker can't keep up with pacy players and Koscielny is error prone against skillful opposition.

Their central midfield partnership is very talented and possesses plenty of quality on the ball, but lacks balance and defensive capability. Flamini is good in the tackle and strong, but his weaknesses can be exploited by a fast passing team and by stronger players.

They lack width, same as Manchester City last season. Their wingers are not actually wingers.

And their striker is very capable but not in the same class as the likes of Rooney, Van Persie and Aguero.

When you see Arsenal you see a team playing with great quality and plenty of talented players that interchange at will, but lacking overall balance and squad depth

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They lack strength in depth.

Think Mick summed it up very well. Especially the defensive frailties.

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Zaki could be setting you boys up here.
Last week I read and responded to a similar post on their page, how SAS were going to enjoy them self's with our weak defence.
Funny enough they didn't look like they we're having fun yesterday.
UTD can beat anyone only a fool would deny that, but frailties in your team are not so hard to spot.
From one team full of weakness to another see ya Sunday.
And may the worst side win, I'm sure by then Dortmund fans will be able to offer some useful tips like Zaki

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Gooner here in peace gents.
Not too sure I agree with what has been said above. Whilst I agree koscielny and mertesacker are not the best in the business they are certainly better than vidic and rio and have a better understanding.
Yes, we do lack strength in depth but mainly up front. we have enough cover in goal/ back 4 and certainly midfield but, lacking up front.
You say we lack width? Totally agree but our 3 wide players, walcott, podolski and chamberlain have been out injured all season, soon to return.
Please bear in mind, walcott and podolski can also play up front if needed, ie, girouds injured/playing badly.
Nobody wins anything after 10 games but, bearing in mind the above, i'm more than happy to be top of the table, with at least 4 or 5 top players still out injured.
like I said, I come in peace and I go in peace and just for the record, if we get a point at OT next weekend I will be happy as Manchester United are still the team to finish above if you want to win the league.

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Over a run of 10 games Arsenal have been more consistent and played better football than any other side in the EPL. How about we give them some credit for that and acknowledge that at the moment they DO look like genuine title contenders?

Of course every team has their weaknesses, lack of strength in depth and a not so good defense being Arsenal's.

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Redfaith, spoken like a true gentleman and a genuine supporter, take a bow son, take a bow

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Write off arsenal at your peril! Atm its hard to spot a real weakness although there are a few susceptible players imo!
But out of all the big 4 from last season arsenal have maintained stability in terms of management and are reaping the rewards now!
Full credit has to go to them for the way they are playing and i'm sure as most arsenal fans are intelligent they will be the first to say there is a lng way to go still!
I take my cap off to them and I must admit i'm happy they seem to be back challenging again, 8 years was to lng and I have missed our games being intense.
Well done arsenal, well done.
P.s come Sunday thou I hope we stick it to em thou :-)

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Redfaith - I tip my hat to you. We have been the best and deserve to be top. Long may it continue!

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Let's be honest you lads have been the team to beat for so long now and for too many years ( for us ) we have come to you in hope rather than expectation.
Yes this time its different I am looking forward to Sunday very much we are having our best season for years and you are adjusting to a massive change at your club but I am fully aware that against us you could well announce to all others your return to normal service.
Challengers come and go but you have been and still are the one constant contender.

I have said it from day one and will say it until May
I have no wish to be this seasons Swansea or Wigan the only team I wish to emulate from last year is UTD.
Its a bid ask and there is a very long way to go, but so far I'm more than happy and famous last words! We come to you very confident for the first time in years, might not go home that way of course:-) see you Sunday and thanks to all those who have been able to rise above the rivalry and acknowledge our improvement, respect to you all

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03 Nov 2013 14:37:10
I've seen some posts regarding our midfield partnerships who would you guys realistically want as a midfield 2? Current or potential January/summer transfer?
Not that I'm the biggest fan of wig at present but I'd go for;
Fellaini and Herrera.

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Gundogan and Koke

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Gundogan and Hamsik or Gundogan and Oliver Torres

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Koke, Herrera, Gundogan, any 2 of those 3 would be perfect.

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04 Nov 2013 01:50:21
Gundogan has to be the first name on everyones list at the moment. In terms of 'realistic' targets he is head and shoulders above all alternatives. The influence he would have on our side would be unbelievable. He has become one of the most influential midfielders in the game.

I would also take Vidal, a player we should have signed a few years ago.

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@Red Man

Completely agree, those two would be a dream partnership.

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Gundogen and Hamsik is a good shout but unrealistic and Oliver Torres is not physically ready although he has a Scholes esque playing style about him. Maybe a midfield 3 of Torres and Gundogen slightly more attacking with Hamsik playing deep playmaker and cover in front of the back four.

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03 Nov 2013 12:05:05
Guys who watch youth football could you please tell me about Charni Ekangamene. I've heard he us very good and plays in the position where we are lacking right now. How long before he can step up.

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I wrote about him few weeks back. Super player, breaks play up and a good passer. Very energetic.
Miles better than the donkey with the wig.
But will he ever get his chance?

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Just like you I'm also frustrated with Fellaini right now as he looks a shadow of the player he was with Everton but let's give him time to prove himself. We have been doing so with Anderson for the past few seasons. But I'm of the opinion that he will not succeed with Carrick as they both are too slow even if we play a 3 man midfield. With someone energetic he will probably look much better and when he gets his form back he will definitely win over the fans. Also hope that Charmi continues to develop and breaks into the 1st team very soon.

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Raph, Fellaini is no different to how he was playing at Everton. The difference is he was playing as a 2nd striker at Everton, but deeper for us. He is still the Bambi like, cumbersome player he was at Everton. He is just playing in a different position.

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Fellaini is very lazy and it always seems like he is afraid to commit to tackles. He mainly gets possesion back from interceptions. It made me laugh reading on here how people compared him to Yaya and thought us buying fellaini would give him a match in midfield. Yaya is a complete athlete. Good pace, Unbelievable strength, Close ball control and an eye for a good pass. All attributes Fellaini does not possess. He is a decent player but definately not the answer to our problems. I would prefer he was used with 2 more techniocal players in a 3 man midfield.

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I do know he isn't that good but still hope he becomes better. His 1st game crowd was cheering each of his touches once he came off the bench. Leverkusen game he was ok but once Lars Bender came on Fellaini was just outmuscled by him and he was substituted just minutes later. I had ni hope that he would shine in the city game after that. Comparing him to Yaya is just criminal. I can see him at United as a squad player who comes off the bench once we have a good lead in the match. But I hope and pray that he proves us all wrong. We've spent too much on him to give up on him just yet.

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I love the way Utd fans always give our new signings a chance to prove themselves. Oh, wait.

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Sydney, T thought you'd know better than that.

Fellaini played most of last season as a second striker, but before that he was a defensive midfielder.

Also have you watched Everton at the beginning of this season? Fellaini was a class above. He was averaging 77 passes ( to 46 now ), averaged 9 tackles/interceptions per game ( top of the league), while playing fast ( ish ) passing football. He had a higher whoscored rating than Barkley at the time.

But when he moved here, he started playing with Carrick, who is just as slow as him. At Everton he was playing with Osman, a very mobile midfielder, now he has to cover more ground during both attack and defense. The distance separating midfield from attack is also much greater now since Barkley plays a much deeper role than Rooney, offering extra protection in defense and more options in attack.

I think Fellaini will come good eventually, he just needs more time.

He is still stronger and taller than anyone in his position, and when he gets going you are not going to stop him. His passing is also assured and has improved his long range passing this season.

All he needs at the moment is to up his fitness levels and get used to his new role

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Oh and on Ekangamene. I wrote a long post about our U21s players most likely to make it and he was up there.

He is fast, strong, very mobile and boy can he tackle. His passing is decent and his technique isn't the best (still he is better than Jones at both ) but he is a top notch ball winner and will not get dispossessed since what he lacks in technique he makes up for it in strength and pace, and he is not too shabby when he starts bullying his way forward.

I would say he is a better prospect than Ryan Tunnicliffe and while not the most talented player in the U21s, he has a good chance of making it at the top level

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03 Nov 2013 11:46:30
Anyone see the forward pass by cleverly yesterday? I'm not fanatical about cleverly but let's try and stop targeting players like some people on here. It does get tiresome.
Currently in a few peoples radar seems to be young, nani and even rvp. It's a team game and to single out players only deters from issues regarding our speed of play and shape.

Supasub

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The fact that you have to point out "that forward pass" says it all really. But credit to the lad he works a lot on the field and makes our play better as compared to our other midfield partnerships.

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03 Nov 2013 00:47:54
Pretty good performance today especially the first half. That's 2 games without Carrick in which we look more like our old selves. Jones had a good game playing the Carrick role and is basically an all round better player. The tempo we played at was a lot better and we were a threat going forward.

For me the simple solution isleave Carrick on the bench permanently!!

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Jones is not a CM, he can do a job but CB is his position, when against crafty midfields they will pass around him

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Person!

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I think the reason we looked better at these two games was because we played Cleverley, not because we benched Carrick.Fellaini and Carrick are just too slow a pairing and didn't work out as good as most of the people on here had expected.

However, I think we should be starting to slowly phase Carrick out of the team, as he won't be able to play so well forever, despite being voted player of the season last year.We should get a fast, talented, mobile and creative midfielder this January and play him alongside Fellaini, who I think will be good for us in the future despite not having a dream start of the season for us.Until then we will need Cleverley as things stand.

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Glad that Cleverley is finally being recognised for what he brings to the team too many are swayed by the flair midfield players forgetting we also need the Cleverly type player. I would be first to agree though that there is still areas in his game that need to improve.
I would have to partly disagree with Chris the redman Jones can play DMC which did for Wigan as well as CB which is his best position.

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'Jones is basically an all-round better player (than Carrick)"

One has played a relative handful of games for us, and the other has carried our midfield these last few years.

Comments like this leave me wanting to tear my hair out.

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That is one of the most riddiculous statements I've yet to read.

Not the part where Jones is an all round better player than Carrick, because he probably is. He can cover more positions and has more abilities in his Arsenal but he is nowhere near the level of Carrick as a midfielder.

Carrick is our best passer and the only player we have who is able to control a game.

Last season our midfield looked okay, because Cleverley's work rate complemented Carrick's laid back style. But Carrick, to have his best effect, needs a real workhorse next to him, not a buzzing nimble player who makes cute little passes.

He needs a Ramires, not a Cleverley.

Jones is the closest thing we have to a box to box workhorse as a player

Fellaini is not a workhorse, he is a powerhouse. He needs a player exactly like Cleverley next to him to have his best effect. Fellaini is not as mobile as Jones but he does have a better technique, better passing range, and most importantly, better positioning, which would allow cleverley the freedom to drive forward and do those little passes and carry the ball and control possession.

So in my opinion, a midfield of carrick/ Jones or a midfield of Fellaini/ Cleverley would both have an enforcer and a passer, while both would also have a positionally astute Defensive/ Holding midfielder and a more energetic playmaker/ enforcer.

That is unless Fellaini improves his mobility and develops and understanding with Carrick

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