Manchester United Banter Archive September 03 2014

 

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03 Sep 2014 22:31:30
Never really look at the Liverpool page but had a quick look and I have to say, isn't it a laugh a minute. My personal favourite of the day is that they reckon everyone, including EVERTON have a better squad than we do. So hilarious. Clearly guys Lukaku and Naismith are much better than RVP, Falcao and Rooney!

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I'm an Everton fan and last season proved we have a better squad than you yeah you've got do maria Falcao and rvp and Rooney and maybe de gea but who else in your squad is better than our starting 11? Yeah I know your replies will be bringing up history but were in the present now

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{

Ryan

Isn't last season history?

We have a better squad than you. Debate over.

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Well if you look at the whole Everton starting 11 and compare to ours I can't see who I would take. Coleman is probably the only one but that's debatable. Baines, Jagielka and McCarthy are vastly overrated, I would rather have Distin than Jagielka. Baines and Jagielka shouldn't be anywhere near the England team if we wasn't so short in those areas and they probably won't be soon. Stones looks decent but being young and English anything can happen to his career.

So overall probably 1 and if Rafael actually stopped getting injured and sent off, I would take him over Coleman

I'm interested to know who you're talking about being better

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04 Sep 2014 02:57:10
the only Everton players that would make it in the United team are Coleman and maybe Jagielka.

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Well I suppose we all have our opinions, in a combined 11 I would have, de gea Baines jags distin Coleman McCarthy Barry(purely because you have no cdm haven't seen blind play) di Maria (Rooney or Barkley (undecided unless you take rvp out and put both in te side) rvp Falcao I didn't come on hear to argue but what would your 11s be? And tbh I think this is a non starter as a debate because you finished 7th we 5th so in theory your arguing to say you have a better squad, I could say the same about us having a better squad than Liverpool and arsenal, the league result doesn't lie. We haven't got a good as squad as Liverpool and arsenal just like you haven't everton, that's not to say by end of January you won't because you clearly have money to burn

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If your squad was better than ours then you'd of finished higher than is and spurs fact. Just like your squad has been better than ours since the premeir league started but last year it weren't, simple as.

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How can you say that when the squad last year was the same that won the Prem 2 years ago, history is a bi*** isn't it? We had/have a better squad you had better tactics. And a better manager Imo. But this year all of that has changed.

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LOL Everton talking about both the history and the present!

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Ryan, I've a slight feeling we may just have improoved our squad since finishing 7th, can you say the same?!

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Last season your TEAM finished higher than us, but that didn't give you a better squad.

THIS year we have better players than you that will hopefully mould into a more successful team than you. And, given the subs benches that will be watching when we play you in October, it will be pretty evident we have a better squad.

Combined team (everyone fit):

De Gea, Coleman, Jones, Blind, Shaw, Herrera/Carrick, Barklay, Di Maria, Mata, Rooney, Falcoa/RVP.

Subs: Lukaku, Januzaj, Mirallas, Fellaini, Howard

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04 Sep 2014 08:20:52
Oh Ryan the irony of saying we are in the present now and then judging the squads on last season is so lost on you it's hilarious. Back to school this morning?

Who is above who in the league at this 'present' time mate?

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04 Sep 2014 08:35:17
Ryan you are embarrassing yourself fella, go back to the Everton site. You played better as a team last season definitely, with pretty much no pressure what so ever. We didn't play well as a team and the manager and players were under huge pressure. You can't compare our situation with yours and your squad isn't even close to ours. Remind who was it that wanted Cleverley this summer? A player no where near good enough for us?

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04 Sep 2014 08:42:46
ryan you are deluded i'm sorry

By your reckoning Stoke are now beter than man city because they beat them

When Barkley has achieved what RVP and Rooney have in their carreer then maybe you can mention them in the same sentence. Barry is on his last Legs
Coleman is in top 3or 4 RB's in the world apart from him you can keep the rest.
Lukaku is very overated as he has really achieved nothing proved he can't break into a top team. Our seson last year was a disaster so you finished higher but that does not mean the players are better individually. Count up your medals from all the players in your dressing room and I think you will find that Anderson has more than your entire squad combined. Did you watch Argentina last night Di maria 3 assists and 1 goal v germany I don't think Barry or Mccarthy will get that for the entire seson.
I know you were excited about finishing 5/6 last season and I'm sure that it was exciting for you but really fella you need to wake up and smell the coffee

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I'm all for banter but last year Liverpool finished 2nd and could easily have, won the league. Everton overachieved and out performed us. If anyone has forgotten we finish 7th and have 1 point from3 games so far this year.

We've made some great signings but as of today we have nothing to shout about. I for one will be avoiding banter with opposition fans until we apart to demonstrate a turnaround,

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04 Sep 2014 09:57:10
2points so far Tony. as the man in Tesco says every little helps.
As for avoiding banter until we are showing signs of improvement I don't agree, some of the opposition fans and some of the children that come on here live in a bubble and are completely deluded i'm happy to enter into debate with any sensible fan, sure there are English fans who think that the EPL is full of worl class players I would challege anybody to come up with 20 WC players playing in the EPL

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04 Sep 2014 10:12:07
AJH,

Everton have 1 point from 3 games as well, I am all for opposition fans giving us stick when they are doing better than us, but Everton are below us in the league!

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I take the pints boys but we are I'm danger of looking like the Liverpool fans have done for many years. All the talk of RVP, Rooney, and Falcao is great but we've all seen ho Rooney and RVP have shaped up so far. Talk is cheap, we need to kick on

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04 Sep 2014 11:25:44
Tony,

You are confusing me now, they have 2 points from 3 games as well!

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Fickle fans some of you are, anyway will have to agree to disagree I don't have a hatred for your club it's clear to see next season you'll be top 4 maybe this year, anyway let's hope both our clubs get in they're instead of Liverpool and that other club In Manchester, good banter guys;)

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Ryan

You are a provincial club with a few good defences mate. Next year you will be back to being a selling club and that is the end of that. You are truly deluded. We will finish 10 points ahead of you.

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03 Sep 2014 21:42:47
I've just had a look on the Liverpool page and I can't believe the arrogance.

Lallana is better than Di Maria HANDS DOWN.
Sturridge will easily out score Falcao.
Falcao isn't world class and has been terrible since he left Athletico.

Apparently he's also Injury prone, he's had 4 serious injuries in his entire career and by serious I mean missing more than 1 game.

I genuinely think Liverpool are going to have such a hard fall back to reality, They'll be out the UCL at the group stages, struggle to get into the top 4 and probably lose Sterling to Bayern/Real/Barca within the next 18 months.

I suppose you can't blame them though, They haven't had anything to shout about for nearly a decade.

I'll bet anyonee £50 that these Rodgers signings prove just as effective as those make my Queen Kenith, Woy Hodgeson and the Spanish Waiter.

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Lallana being better than Di Maria is a joke without a doubt.

Not saying Sturridge is a better player than Falcao by any means but I wouldn't bet against him scoring more goals. At this moment in time United's team is very disjointed and will have a tough time finishing ahead of Liverpool in the league. Sturridge is basically the main man in Liverpool's system and their team is very talented going forward.

I agree that they'll definitely have a tough time managing with CL games as well but their squad is much stronger now. Hope United can get a CL spot ahead of Liverpool but I recognize that it's going to be tough.

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They obviously never saw that master class from Di Maria, tonight. He ripped Germany a new one. Rojo didn't look to shabby either.

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03 Sep 2014 22:57:35
Spot on Ruud

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I'll take that bet r kid

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03 Sep 2014 23:19:59
It is just their fear and inferiority complex coming out!

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03 Sep 2014 19:54:38
Is it me or has the media got a bit of anti Man utd agenda, they seem to revel in our dip in fortunes and now we have reinvested they are taking another shot at us.

First off we get critised for spending big money.
But not so long ago we where crtised for not spending. I don't really remember Citeh getting so much stick and we are at least spending money we have earned, which comes indirectly from the fans and support.

We then get critised for selling Welbeck and Cleverley and abandoning the club ethos.
Prevously the press critised both players as not being good enough.

Utd bring through so many players and if you where to look through the squads of the top 2 leagues you'll find lot o Utd academy graduates. People should also recognise we have other players breaking through and young players will always get their chance. - Luke Chadwick has a CL medal ffs.

We are told we have signed 3 LB by one journo, Martin Samuel.
Blind is CDM, Rojo LCB and Shaw LB.

And finally we should have signed a CB and CM, well we will but we haven't settled for an inferior player and we get the right men and the right time.

I think this ABU agenda comes from years of Fergie controlling those in the media and now they think we are fair game.

I get and understand these comments form rival fans as it's banter or even fear.

Am I getting paranoid?

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Utd Road

Yes is the simple answer. I was around in the 70's and 80's and the press loved Liverpool, the weekly MOTD love in and the daily papers. We were by far second best and many still resent SAF knocking them off their perch.
Now at every opportunity most of the Scouse loving press take delight in turning the screw. In fact I posted a week or two ago that we needed to stop giving them ammunition and going along with everything they say. They have a sense of glee of hope but there are some that keep saying negative things to hope if they keep saying them everybody will believe it and it will come true.
However, they are starting to express growing concerns amongst that we have two players who would get into any team in the world. I trust LvG over the next two windows to turn it round then they will go quiet again.

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We are both the most loved and most hated club in England, if not the world, so it is not surprising when things go wrong the press revels in it. 20+ years of frustration and pent up negativity spewing out onto the pages and commentaries with scarcely an original thought amongst them.

But as Oscar Wilde said, there's only one thing in life worse than being talked about, and that's not being talked about. Even when we're losing we occupy more space than anyone else. Take comfort in the idea that the bias is an emphatic endorsement of our status as the premier global name.

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03 Sep 2014 23:48:57
United have and will always sell papers, that's the crux of it!

There are a lot of anti utd pressers out there but I think we should all be used to getting crap off them by now its beem happening for years

Top reply redman

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Yet again Redman I agree entirely with what you say. I too remember what it was like in the 70s and 80s. If they had won the league it would have spoilt the World Cup for me because that's all we would of heard about from the scouse infested media.

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03 Sep 2014 19:03:33
I have seen various posts regarding Mike Phelan's comments. Peashooter in particular making some good points. I have been following United since 68 and the decline that followed was because of that supposed identity, the false idea that the youth would just come through again to take us back to the top as it had in the 50's and 60's. Well we didn't "lose our identity" then but we did get relegated. Relegated because the club wouldn't spend on top players and the youth we were waiting for, as now were not good enough. I don't think we would have been relegated but it would have been midtable due to the eyes of previous management totally taken off the task at hand.

The actual key point for me is that this window signalled the end of the Ferguson sentimentality syndrome which has kept us below the very best level of the Barca, Munich and Madrid levels for a while. Sentiment is what Phelan expressed, sentiment that pervaded all our dealings for years, the same sentiment that I have written about on here a few times. Well Phelan amply demonstrated the sentiment that I was talking about.

This window, the sentiment was blown out of Old Trafford by someone with a keen eye on quality not where they come from or whether they are a decent chap from the reserves who has done his time and deserves his chance. I don't really care much what Phelan thinks because I am too busy enjoying the fact United have really started a transition process based on the right decisions not on sentiment.

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Good post Red Man key word in there is "Sentiment", no room for it in football in this day n age.

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I very good point that redman

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Red Man

Totally agree. Couldn't have said it better myself. LVG immediately noticed a distinct lack of world-class quality and has done his best to address it, that will have casualties but those casualties are to be expected.

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Red Man

I struggle to understand how SAF was thinking. He seemed obsessed with value in the market and bringing in younger players with potential. I'm all for that but why we couldn't bring in 1 world class player each year is beyond me. I think Ronaldo turning into the best player in the world reinforced his belief he could unearth real gems. The evidence suggests otherwise. He made some great and poor buys of well regarded experienced players but when it came to players with potential, he generally got it wrong. Not trying to dis him, and his achievements will never be equalled but his transfer policy in recent years was odd. Bebe simply never made sense, nor did Buttner. Why buy Kagawa and then not play him? Why buy Powell and then loan him out? We sat and watched whilst Chelsea and City signed Toure, Hazard, Aguero, Silva, Oscar and all because there was no value in the market.

The final point to make is that if the players coming through aren't good enough, then they aren't good enough. Is our youth set up fit for purpose? Are we transitioning players from youth to 1st team effectively? How are clubs like Southampton able to do it so well?

I want us to bring players through and always have a core of home grown players, but only if they are good enough

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Good post, completely agree

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03 Sep 2014 21:26:10
Nobody I have seen on here has said we should play youth team guys if they're not good enough.

But it remains a valid viewpoint that we should always be striving to get the very best youth through our academy, and if good enough, integrate them into the first team.

It's got nothing to do with sentimentality. There needs to be a balance between top class 'worldies', and top class potential coming through our ranks.

If for no other reason than you are not going to keep 21 'galacticos' happy throughout a season if they're all not playing.

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Well said red man, I totally agree

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Agreed RedMan. Phelan in my opinion was a disaster at United. Our game deteriorated when he became right hand man. I'm old enough to have seen him as a player, and he was rubbish at that too.
But the most ridiculous statement was him saying we're losing identity by selling/loaning our young players, welbeck and cleverly. But didn't he and his master allow Paul Pogba to leave by not giving him enough games?
What the hell is phelan on? He should just shut up and be grateful that this club gave him a fantastic living for years.

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Been thinking the same myself Redman exactly the same points. Didn't post it because I tend to get shot down by most so can't be arsed! But your right busby despite breaking transfer records a couple of times himself didn't like the fact we spent the money we did on Robson he was part of the board who wouldn't give the Doc money for certain players like shilton. Obviously Edwards dad had a lot to do with it too. Fergie bought 5 players at the start if the 89/90 season it wasn't all about youth with him either.

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03 Sep 2014 18:35:31
The Falcao signing has sent my Liverpool fan friends over the edge ,not since the sheik took over city have I seen shockwaves like it! it's been a fantastic few days I must say

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You should look at Pools 2nd banter site and other post site its full of posts about UTD.
Infatuation.

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For those that haven't seen it, Jamie Carragher's reaction to Falcao's signature is recommended viewing. He was already starting to quiet down from his usual chatter when we signed Di Maria, but the Falcao deal going through on DD was the first time iv seen him more or less speechless.

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03 Sep 2014 16:55:49
I love the term we're being called the gaalacticos lol

In all honesty I'm veryy disappointed with phelens comments, all because cleverley and welbeck have gone, I'm pretty sure their not the first home grown players that have been sold? At the end of the day if the players aren't good enough, they should go

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I agree with that. A lot of people are reacting as if Welbeck and Cleverly are our last youth players. I think Welbeck and Cleverly could flourish like Shawcross. Its good for them.They were not good enough at United. Further we can give chances to the likes of Wilson and Ben Pearson.

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Cleverly's departure is good for both player and club. Wellbeck was an unnecessary sale.

Despite playing in 2 competitions this season, Wellbeck could have been loaned, and simply come back next year as a squad player. 4 Strikers are required to challenge for 4 competitions. Why axe a player that needs replacing next year?

Im in favour of refurbishing the side with expensive world class players, but I don't agree with the idea that there is no value to bringing youth through.
There is a definate edge to producing your own world class players. Loyalty and mentality are benefits, but most importantly, their knowledge of the system is a great asset.
The best example has to be Barcelona. The trio of Xavi, Iniesta and Messi bettered Madrid for years. The key difference being their ability to perform in unison, producing telepathic football on occasion. The sum of Barcelona was greater than its parts. Not so for Madrid.

For United, a youth policy is not a realistic strategy.

Looking at football clubs capable of producing great "youth generations, " i'm not filled with confidence at the prospect of bidding our time. Shappy mentioned Ajax and Barcelona's youth teams produced the best young talent, a dn that it is the education lacking. I have to question that. To my memory, following football from the early 90's, the 2008-13 Barcelona side is the only youth "golden generation" they have produced in their history. Before the 90's they won 3 titles in 30 years in what was a bad period for them, bar the years of Johan Cruff in the late 70's.

As for Ajax, they have had 2 "golden generations." One in the mid 90's, and one in the early 70's with Cruff and Neeksens, - and 3 European cups!
United have had 3 in their history. One in the 50's, tragically lost in Munich, one in the 60's, and one of course in 92'.

When you look at it like that, the best ratio of youth "golden generartions" appears to be United's 3, over a 65 year period. that's 1 every 20 years if your lucky.

The only point at which youth should come through then - is when it does. If you have the problem of selling the first team after that, then do so. Until that time invest.

(Ferguson did exactly that. Barca did exactly that.
United spent lavishly in the late 80's to produce the 93' title winning side. In 95 we sold the first team and put the youth in. The same is true of Barcelona, mid 2000's. Ronaldinho & co out, Iniesta + Messi in, to partner Xavi.)

Much happier to let Woodward, and I don't believe i'm saying it, the Glazers run the club. Phelan, Parker, Ferguson, Chalton & co, as much as the idea griefs me to say it, you will stop United evolving, - in a period where only that will guarantee survival. We can all see we dangerous road United were going down, overconfidence in youth, overconfidence in David Moyes. i'm shocked to be saying it, but i'm grateful the owners and EdWW stepped in to sort the problem out.

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03 Sep 2014 15:47:13
Is falcao being presented to the media at any point in ye next couple of weeks? Cheers

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03 Sep 2014 15:16:59
Hi eds, sydney and all regular posters.
I just wanted to ask for a possible special write up on our youths and who is showing promise and who could we possibly see break into the first team in the next few seasons (aside from the obvious Pereira Wilson etc.)
Thanks all and your feedback will be really appreciated :)

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For me, keep an eye on Wilson (obviously), then Pearson, Rothwell, Goss, Perreira and Harrop. If Pearson can become a little more disciplined, then I expect him to break through next season with Perreira. But there will always be surprises and disappointments. Wilson is the one to watch. He could outshine Adnan over the next two seasons.

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Thanks Syd. Frombwhat I've seen of Goss his technical ability is far superior to Pearson Rothwell and Harrop but he seems to be struggling to break into the 21s team. Pereira and Wilson really do excite me and were the ones who impresses vs Mk Dons. The fear i'd have for Pereira is the amount of attcking talent we already have

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I agree with all that MUIRE. Pearson for me is Scholes like, he gets stuck in and I think would do well if given the chance, but Goss and Rothwell are technically better.

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I know he's even younger but don't forget Mitchell, hopefully he will keep progressing as he has been, looks a huge talent.

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Sydney, not to forget Pearson is full of confidence and a leader on the field.

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Do we have any real.contenders for RB/RWB that will knock on the door this year. Had hoped for JanKo making an impression

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Plenty of potential coming through, no matter which club only a tiny percentage of there academys reach the very top.utd have definately upped there game in the last 12 months with signing english and foreign 15 and 16 year olds will they make it we will have to wait and see.janko has potential but is a bit too raw at the moment.

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Ironic when we talk about right back potential, watched the leicester arsenal game at the weekend and richie delaet had a very good game.

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{Ed007's Note - I said the exact same thing, John, I thought he had a great game.}

Arsenal had very little joy against him even sanchez.

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04 Sep 2014 02:13:13
Demitri Mitchell and Rashford have impressed me in the u18s

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03 Sep 2014 14:26:47
There's a lot of talk of MU turning their back on player development. So expect the likes of Wilson and Blackett to get games this season.

Personally I just think it's the bitter media. They hoped MU would continue to fall, but our spending power has p1ssed them off. Evny!

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Syd there's a hidden agenda for sure in todays media against united its ridiculous, when we don't spend we get hounded for being an acient club stuck in time when we do we're the worst club ruining football, when we buy a player we're stopping youth development and when we develop youth players they're not as good as the class of 92' and we're letting england down.

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03 Sep 2014 15:18:44
Phelan talking about us abandoning our faith in young players .
He was part of the management when we brought Scholes out of retirement at 38 years of age and when we had Giggs playing fairly regularly in central midfield at 38/39 years of age .
Where was the faith in young players then?

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Rather we got rid of unwanted players how about this we sold Welbeck and loaned Cleverly for them to further there careers which could not of happened at United this way we haven't abandoned youth or good rid as some people say deadwood its just a better way to word it

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I think we have to accept that the academy players we have promoted to the first team over the last decade (bar a few exceptions) just haven't been developing to a high enough standard to challenge for titles. It's disappointing when players who looked full of potential at youth level leave the club, but we can't keep faith with underperforming 'home' players in the hope that they finally come good. Cleverley is 25 and doesn't think there's anything wrong with his game, so I don't think we're going to see any footballing epiphany with him.

The truth is that our identity as a club has been broken for years because we have been unable to turn the raw potential we promote from the academy into top quality first team talent. Hanging onto lads in the mid-twenties like Cleverley and Welbeck isn't the way to improve youth development and reclaim our identity. The way to do that is integrate the 18 and 19 year olds into the first team, and surround them with top quality players they can learn from. The likes of Welbeck and Cleverley are lost causes, they haven't made the step up. We need to focus on the actual young lads coming through now and make sure that the same mistakes aren't repeated.

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03 Sep 2014 17:19:55
I agree with most of the names posters have put forward as young players to look out for, however one player seems to have gone under the radar since ariving at the club, Paddy McNair. When he arrived he was unable to establish himself in the academy side in his favoured midfield position ,primarily due to his size. He then had a growth spurt and due to our lack of centre backs Paddy got his opportunity in that position and has now established himself in the under 21s. He has improve d no end over the last couple of seasons and matured physically and is now a commanding defender who has also retained his skill on the ball and the passing abbillity he possessed as a midfield player.

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03 sep 2014 14:17:18
manclactico!

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03 Sep 2014 14:10:08
Eds thanks for the work you put in over the year and transfer window it's greatly appreciated

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{Ed002's Note - You are welcome.}

03 Sep 2014 14:09:00
Hi Guys

Look who's back

Well I for one was ecstatic with the transfer window. I am glad that once and for all we have wriggled out of the shackles of Ferguson/Charlton mentality and we are now moving with the times.

You buy cheap you buy twice. I like a lot of United fans have sat here for years watching us buy dross like Kagawa, Valencia, Nani, Anderson, Young. We are Manchester United we should be out there buying the best around at the best prices the club can afford it, but have been obsessed with this youth development nonsense for decades. That works once every preston guild and everyone knows it. Its as black and white as you spend big you gain big.

We are arguably as big as Real Madrid but its them who go out and buy the galactico's I'm sick and tired of it. This guy LVG seem to be the guy for me a bit like Souness did with Rangers in Scotland. Your the biggest Richest Club here why don't you start acting like it.

Let this transfer policy continue and bring us back to the top the very top where this club and its supporters deserve to be

Mike

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Welcome back Mike the Moston Red.
I agree, to be the best you have to buy quality.

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I just can't take you seriously if you are labeling Kagawa as 'dross'. One of the best number 10s in Europe during the 2011/12 season, and was a joy to watch with Dortmund. Even Nani and Valencia have had quite a few good seasons with us, Valencia in particular, perhaps you forgot he broke his ankle a few years back and has never fully recovered from what was a nasty injury?

I, like you, am as happy as any other fan about who we have managed to bring in this window. But vilifying players and calling youth development 'nonsense' is downright stupid. Youth development is the back bone of many top European clubs (Barcelona and BM for example), aside from the fact it is hugely important for the game as a whole. Perhaps you are unaware of LVGs successes with other clubs where he used youth to tremendous affect to win trophies?

You honestly think if we spent 150 million every summer we'd be winning treble after treble? Grow up and take a look at the bigger picture.

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03 Sep 2014 14:50:41
So you thought signing Kagawa, the German league player of the year in 2012, was a bad move at the time then did you? He never got a run in his favourite position and so we never saw what he could do, he certainly isn't dross. Also, Anderson had all the attributes to be a true great when we signed him, but with injuries and his love of burgers, he never fulfilled his potential. Nani also had and has the ability to be an excellent player, he is just woefully inconsistent and lazy, how were we to know? I do agree that Young and Valencia weren't good enough and should never have been bought.

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03 Sep 2014 16:57:14
Sorry andy totally disagree Kagawa for us was poor ok you say he didn't get a fair crack but he should be good enough to play anywhere.Valencia had one half decent season.I expect players who play for utd to be 8/10 for nearly every game not 5 or 6 like they have been

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Rangers lol is that what you call them, bankrupt

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Should be good enough to play anywhere Blackpool Red? On that logic we should throw Falcao into the back 3/4 and Blind up top to terrorize the opposition defense! Think before you type mate!

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It might work we played fletcher and carrick as centre backs and played a right back in midfield instead of pogba :)

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03 Sep 2014 13:02:23
There are a few of you asking why we are selling players like Welbeck and Cleverly who are young and English and also home grown players and replacing them with "the finished article".

There are obviously a few reasons for this:

1. They have never really been good enough for us.

2. We can't just settle for second best so we swapped Welbeck for Falcao who could easily score 20+ goals.

3. We are in no position at the moment to just sit back and see if the players we are developing could get us into the champions league again, especially as it generates so much money.

4. Compare Welbeck to Rooney, RVP, Ronaldo, RVN, Cole and Yorke for example and do the same with Cleverly for Scholes, Keane, Herrera etc. Maybe that will show you just why they have been replaced with better.

Now add this to the fact the premier league and lower leagues are swarmed with English and home grown players that have come through our ranks and ask yourself over the years and now how many of them would get into our first team? Also how many of them were better than Cleverly and Welbeck?

It is a shame to see these players go I admit but I can think of many times I have screamed at the TV for them to do something better compared to how many times I have applauded them for doing great things (especially Cleverly).

To be honest and I know I may get slated for this, I don't even think Januzaj is good enough for United at the moment and think we should be looking to loan him out too. The main thing is though that we have spent money on better players because the champions league is so important and certain players are not good enough for that level.

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We had a massive squad, but we lacked top quality in the first XI, or first 14 these days. We have no UCL so it was a great opportunity to cut the squad dramatically and bring in quality. I have said for a while that the 2012 squad was good due to the depth, but our first XI was not good enough. If we had to trim the squad to improve the first XI then so be it.

A month ago I said that I would sell all of our strikers/forwards bar Adnan, Rooney, Van Persie & Wilson and buy Cavani. The club did just that albeit an even better Falcao, they got rid of Nani, Welbeck, Zaha, Lawrence, Henriquez, Bebe etc and brought in a top notch striker. So Welbeck or Cavani? Welbeck or Falcao, who would people prefer :)

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03 Sep 2014 14:06:30
I accept that falcao, blind, Herrera, did maria are better than welbeck and cleverly. I personally have never liked cleverly as a player, but there are others that should have been dispensed with first.

Young, Anderson, yes jones, fellani and Valencia should have all been replaced first.

I know a lot of people think jones is great, but all he has is pace. He has no composure, no positional sense, always gives away stupid free kicks or penalties because he is out of position and trying to get back and is also made of glass. I know he is still young, but he does not seem to be learning from his mistakes.

Danny eel beck is diffrent. He made material contributions to our success, often making personal sacrifices, I.e. Being played out of position on the wing. He never complained, always gave 100% and never stopped smiling. Going to miss the lad and I hope he is a success. I think he will do well.

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Phil jones has been out best player in these 3 games. And you'll won't just be eating you'll be choking in them words at the end of the season. Jones is our best cb left and I think he's realised he has to step up and so far he has and will continue to do so.

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I don't really like the argument that somebody tried their best so that means they should stay. Nani could have tried as hard as he liked and trained more than any other player, he could have put in all of his effort every game and run around the front line chasing the ball and he still wouldn't have been near Ronaldo. Talent cannot be swapped for trying hard and having less.

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03 Sep 2014 18:04:45
Ryan12, nobody will be happier than me should Phil Jones turn the corner, I just don't see it.

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03 Sep 2014 18:08:07
1redarmy, I would have to disagree, David beckham had no pace, could not dribble and most would agree was pretty limited. What he did have was drive and determination. He worked hard and he succeeded. He won plenty and single handedly dragged England to a World Cup. Don't underrate hard work. If Anderson and nani had welbecks work ethic they would be world beaters.

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03 Sep 2014 12:28:04
With a fully fit squad will united have a single player that has come through the ranks in the first 11?

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No, but Adnan, Fletcher, Blackett, Evans, Lingard or Wilson could make the bench. Quite strange not having one in the first XI.

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Yeah the 12th man.

Of course there won't because we have a half decent team

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Probably not and for me this is one of the biggest issues at our club.

Since Sir Matt we have always put a high value on youth and have tried to develop them and thus improve ourselves.

This needs to be readdresses but throwing players in who are either not ready or not good enough won't help. This isn't a quick fix and will take at least three years to truly start to see the changes start to blossom.

LvG will be working very hard on the youth team, bringing in new ideas to freshen up and modernise our academy. The changes won't happen over night and the results will take years to see the benefit.

Blackett, Januzaj(If you count him as a true academy player) and Wilson are the ones who can in the future get first team chances based on what LvG has done so far. After that I suspect it could be several years before we get a real gem from the academy.

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Really what does it matter? If Wilson or Blackett or someone else comes through in next couple of years then we will.
Can't understand this obsession no point promoting youth just for the sake of it if they are good enough they will progress to the first team simple as.

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Shappy - Great blog by the way, I just put something similar to what you posted here on your own blog, so ignore it as you have obviously considered it already.

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Shappy
For me as long as they get a chance it ok, then its down to the player to take that chance .
I think januzaj chances could be limited this season and that for me would be a problem

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Surely the point though Devil Dust is that if they aren't good enough then don't we have to look at how and what we are teaching them?

Barca and Ajax constantly bring through quality players, is that just down to the fact that children born in Barcelona or Amsterdam are just born more naturally talented players? Of course not, it is due to the footballing education they are given. Obviously talent plays a part but can it is about making sure your youth products reach their potential.

Fact of the matter is most do in Barca's and Ajax's academies, where as most don't in ours.

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Jred, I said earlier that Adnan will be the one who plays less than expected this season and could become disgruntled. In theory Falcao, RvP, Rooney & Mata could all start 30 games each this season and come on as a sub for 10 games. All of those players would be happy with that. Due to not playing with wings, Adnan may have to make do with wingback or in central midfield.

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Jred, with LvG in charge youth will always be given a chance but we live in the real world and in the real world the club can't afford two years without UCL football so we need big players right now who are rrady to deliver. Not only do we need them to get the results on the pitch but we need them to challenge and the youth players and give them some one of the highest quality to learn from.

Syd, I think Adnan will be fine this season, there will be times the team play 433 and he is a shoe in for a role in that formation. And I feel he could get several chances off the bench in the No.10 role for Mata. If we need to win a game then Januzaj on for Mata makes sense. I don't see Rooney playing in the No.10 role much at all. LvG has already said that he is a striker and his system is set up to fit two strikers in. Plus looking at the three current first choice strikers all of them have had their injury issues so will they all be fit at the same time that often?

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We don't have any young players other than adnan to break into our team. Although Wilson is a good player and can only get better learning from Rooney falcao and van Persie he's not going to break ahead of any of those. I believe with lvg shaking things up we should see a few players coming through in 2-4 years

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Shappy, no doubt we will play 433 on occasions this season, even change to it during games, but MU will be playing with two strikers for the majority of this season and if he plays the two best strikers then where does that leave Rooney (our captain)? I think it's almost certain that Rooney will move back to the number ten role. Where does he play for England? Where has he played for SAF in the latest years? I think if anyone misses out when everyone is fit, it will be Mata, but I think all will play many games each this season. I think Di Maria will continue to play LCM.

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Will rvp and falcao be the best partnership?
As I posted further down the page they play the same role .
You need a 9 and a second striker who plays of him.
Rvp will need to change his game to pkay with falcao .
May well work or maybe not time will tell.

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Shappy
You say youth will get a chance but who.
I honestly think adan will struggle to get a game .
Shaw will get a game and so will jones you could argue they are youth

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So are you saying Rooney is a ten then Jred?

I think we will see every combination played and all will be happy. But I think LvG will go with Falcao and RvP if all are fit more often than not.

Jred, or anyone for that matter, if you could sign anyone in January, who would it be? Hummels for me.

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Wilson, Blackett & Adnan will get games, but will not play regularly.

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Syd it depends what you class as a 10.
If you are playing 2 up top the 10 role is a second striker a bit like yorke was .
But if you are playing 1 up top the 10 is more of an attacking midfielder like oscar or mata .

Rooney can play either I think he is better as a second striker .

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I would like to see Rooney play as a 2nd striker, but behind RvP and Falcao if that makes sense? The attacking midfielders will be AdM and Herrera anyway. We could see Rooney and Falcao, but it would be a shame to have RvP on the bench when we could have all three playing together. With LvG always playing all of his best players at once I cannot see him changing that now. So for me RvP and Falcao with Rooney linking midfield and attack. It's where I think Rooney is best anyway. That's what I think, but it will be interesting to see what LvG does. There is so many combinations it's pretty frightening. Can't wait to see Falcao in action.

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For me RvP and Falcao are clearly No.9's and I agree with Jred that it might be difficult to fit them both into a team.

Rooney is neither a true No.9 nor a No.10, he kind of plays between the two roles.

I suspect there might be times that LvG plays Rooney as a No.10 but he has said several times that Rooney is a striker and should be played further forward. So I suspect that it will be Mata at No.10 then Rooney with one of RvP or Falcao.

Remember too many cooks spoil the broth. RvP, Falcao and Rooney are primarily goal scorers. Mata is needed more than ever as he is a creator of goal scoring chances, but he needs people to move about to get into those positions. I think with Herrera and Di Maria running beyond him from deep along with Rooney dragging players out of position and Falcao or RvP ready to run off the shoulder we should be able to create several chances, but I feel Mata will be far more important than most people think. And I suspect Januzaj will be more likely to deputise for him than Rooney.

Remember how many times has LvG said he doesn't care about names or reputations he will play the player he feels will do the job he wants them to do best.

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Shappy I agree with all that .
But I honestly have no idea what lvg will do .

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"Remember how many times has LvG said he doesn't care about names or reputations he will play the player he feels will do the job he wants them to do best."

This is what we all thought Shappy, but LvG has done the opposite. LvG has played all of his best players at once all season so far. He favours the 433 yet he hasn't played it as he wants to play all of his best players at once. Why would that change now? I would be very surprised if Rooney isn't played behind RvP and Falcao when all are fit. It would be pretty dumb to have someone with as much brilliance as RvP left on the bench. Same goes for Rooney, it's only a matter of time before he starts producing the goods this season, I'd want all three on the field and I think all three will start against QPR if available.

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Syd
Yer it should be good to watch .
I think everyone will be given a chance but I expect 1 maybe 2 big names to leave in the summer .

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Syd
How do you see rvp and falcao working

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The same way any two top quality strikers would work together. One striker would occupy the right side, the other on the left side. One being marked by one CB, one by the other CB. A solid two upfront, not one further forward than the other.

I'm looking forward to it. So many options, we haven't had this many options since 2008.

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Other than the class of 92 fergie didn't exactly give youth that much of a chance except for carling cup games.

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Syd
Was that a joke
One left, one right.
Neither dropping of each one getting marked by a cb.
Who plays like that, even sunday league

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It was a joke Jred, Subbuteo - the evil monster :)

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Oh, I did post twice on the teams page, but for whatever reason they haven't been posted yet. I wrote them hours ago. It was only saying fair play after your first post. That I think we will play the 433 sometime this season, but play with two strikers for the majority. Also that I cannot wait to see these players gel. Something like that anyway.

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Syd
No probs it should be a good watch can't wait to see falcao in a united shirt

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Yeah, I couldn't agree more. I have been doing a lot of reading up on Falcao and he is a true gentleman. A down to earth nice bloke. Does a lot for charity. He's quite emotional too, similar to Hernandez in person. I posted a video yesterday of him meeting a kid fan of his who was in tears, after five minutes or so Falcao breaks down sobbing. Not sure why it never got posted.

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03 Sep 2014 12:33:00
Regarding Mike Phelan's reported comments, I've been watching United since 1962 and as far as I am concerned we have always been a team that was prepared to flex its financial muscle and spend big, breaking transfer records. That year we bought Denis Law.

The loss of identity started when the Glazers moved in. Then we became a team no longer in the market for the best players. We cashed in on Ronaldo, a player reaching his prime. We pursued a policy that rested on the talents of an ever aging squad because our management knew it was the lesser risk. We stopped being a team that moved on its best players when the time was right, Beckham, Van Nistleroy etc. And unlike the class of 92 who were given a chance to shine, we effectively blocked youth development.

The big change at United this summer is an acceptance of the true internationalization of the sport. Foremost we have a foreign manager who has foreign tactics. Our major transfers and youth policy have become more oriented towards international talent, which will hopefully be a big part in our future stabilization. So, yes, this summer may mark the passing of a team fed predominantly by English kids but frankly, I don't care. United's identity is not about where the players come from but about having the best players and playing an exciting and entertaining brand of football. It's on the pitch.

It is Mike Phelan's period as assistant manager that's coincided with the real loss of identity. It may take some time to restore the balance, we may have a hard time getting back into the ECL, but be that as it may, as far as I'm concerned this summer our identity has been restored.

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03 Sep 2014 12:46:34
Pea,

Couldn't have put it better myself, was going to write a post very similar but not as good, don't need to now.

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It would be sad to see United go 100% in the direction of Man City/PSG's/Madrid's. The sides that make non stop purchases strip themselves of personality.

The sale of Di Maria is a good example. He was a memorable part of Real's side that halted the legendary Barca 09-11 team, (an acheivment not dissimilar to our United side that broke the "invincible" Arsenal of 2004, something we still enjoy 10 years later.) He was also the star in the side that captured the "decima" (10th European Cup.) These significant moments give teams a history and identity. A revolving door policy can devalue that. There has to be a balance.

Im in favour of some kind of transformation at United. We have been the most old fashioned side in Europe for some time curtosy of a long serving manager. It was worth it, - in Ferguson we had one of the greatest managers to grace the game. Now is a new era however, and I think we really need to use last season as a learning experience. We stuck to the tried and tested, appointing DM, but in reality, it was never the "old fashioned values" that made Sir Alex a legend, it was his natural abundance of ability. In David Moyes we found a successor in personality, - but not ability.

Outdated ways of operating do need to change at United. i'm sorry to say it, but in one of those departments is Youth Policy. The Premier League and Champions League have changed. Level of competition, financial stakes. "Small risks" are now "big risks." For a title challenging team to give Cleverly 18months of first team football, is a big risk. The poor guy received a lot of harsh criticism in the end that he didn't need trying to make his way in the game, but if you want to develop youth in a tier 1 football club nowadays, that will be the fate of 1 in 2 players. Look at Arsenal, are they bring through Youth, or are they signing Sanchez's, Ozils and Carzola's? Their Policy is changing too because it has to change.

A buying policy for a team like United has to be the way forward. When we do unearth talents the likes of Januzaj, a future path for them should be set out clearly. In addition a player that can do a job such as Wellbeck (who can give you something different - the "defensive" a.midfield role he played in the WC, ) should be retained to deepen the squad. That would keep the balance & allow United to reshape itself in the 21st century team.

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You're old

But seriously, you've been on the button of late. Enjoyable to read

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03 Sep 2014 13:12:49
Pea, I agree with most of that, but I've said it before - every successful team, in all the big footballing countries, have a core of native players, who truly understand the unique circumstances of each individual league.

For all the globalisation of football, RM and Barca still have Spanish players, Bayern has Germans, and the Milans and Juventus have their Italians.

I'm as excited as anyone when we bring in the likes of Falcao and Di Maria, but I'd be loath to end up like Arsenal one day, playing a match without a solitary Englishman in the team.

Manchester United may well be one of the biggest clubs in the world, but it is still English, and IMO at least some of our playing staff should reflect that.

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StevieK. I hear what you're saying but Arsenal do have a number of excellent British players - Gibbs, Ramsey, Walcott, Wilshire, Oxlade-Chamberlain and now they have Welbeck too.

It's a nice idea and it works well in Spain and Germany where there are only 1 or 2 clubs that can act as a national incubator. The problem in England is that there are more clubs competing for the best English players and unfortunately, with a few exceptions, they generally aren't as good. or so our parlous international record would indicate.

I'm sure the club will try and develop domestic talent but it first needs to get back to winning ways and playing dynamic football. I want to be able to come away from the weekend at least as excited by our performances as I am impressed by the free scoring abilities of Liverpool, Chelsea and Man City.

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We can't do sentiment this season top 4 has got to be achieved or we will suffer with attracting a few more top targets and 2 years out of ucl adds up to a lot of lost cash

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03 Sep 2014 23:01:14
John, I understand this year is an important one, and that we have to speed things up a little, but I still believe in the long run, there has to be a balance. That's not sentimentality, it's just realism - we can't have a squad of 21 galacticos.

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I didn't say we should stevie, we produce an enormous amount of talented young footballers unfortunately the majority end up at other teams.i go and watch the u18, u21, s whenever ican because I hope to see a few diamonds standing out.we have got them in both age groups hopefully and i'm confident that 3 or 4 at least will progress into the 1st team but you can never tell if they will fullfil that promise.i agree we should have a decent percentage of english players and I think we have plenty rooney, jones, smalling, shaw, carrick, young, wilson, blacket, keane, johnstone, powell and a majority of the youth sides.

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03 Sep 2014 11:13:17
{Ed033's Note - New blog posted by Shappy can be read and commented on entitled, So this is the "new" United

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03 Sep 2014 13:24:54
Are all your posts going to be classed as blogs now shaps ;)

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I always thought they were, or maybe as short novels. lol.

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Its his new philosophy :)

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03 Sep 2014 11:30:25
What's up with a lot of ex United players going rentaquote? Well with Scholes, I will sit up and take notice irrespective of whether I agree or not. But honestly Paul Parker? His article makes him every bit a clown. Are they trying to show that they are not biased? Ridiculous bitter article. What a joke

Deeps.

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Deeps, or could he be having an opinion on a player that differs from yours? It was a bit harsh, but he's entitled to his opinion like everyone else.

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03 Sep 2014 11:53:35
What gets to me is that Meulensteen , phelan , The Nevs , Scholes etc. will never criticise any of Fergies decisions re. Signings etc so it all comes across as if everything was perfect when he left .

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Syd no problems with OPINIONS, like I had none with Scholsey's opinion. But honestly read the quote and tell me if it does not look like he is an axe to grind. Btw he has also stuck in the boot with Jones, Smalling etc. Like I said, it was Paul Parker, he is clueless and is frankly poor at football analysis. We Indians had to put up with 2 years of his pre match shows. He was appalling and rightfully booted by ESPN. So forgive me but he is a nothing and no one, hence what I said.

Deeps.

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Agree with deeps on paul parker's 2 yr stint on espn here in india. He had no clue.

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Deeps, I agree mate. It was a bit OTT.

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03 Sep 2014 13:21:41
A nothing and a no one that was part of the team that won the first league title in 26 years. A part of something we had all longed for. A part of a double winning side the season after. Wow harsh.

I read his column. I actually agreed with most of it. Rooney was awful the last two league games. And I do struggle to see where he fits in when everyone's fit.

As for what he said on jones and smalling plenty on here have said the same.

Its a game of opinions deeps. Sometimes you have to accept that just maybe you are wrong.

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Paul Parker has said it how it is as far as I'm concerned.

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Beast, Rooney may not be the player he once was, but the way PP was talking was like he disliked Rooney. A bit OTT for me.

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MrE, may be I would have given Mr Parker his fair dew if he would have sounded a little rational and not be bitter. Look at his column and you will get to know what I am talking about. While describing the current United captain, may be a little bit of restraint would have helped, but no he decided to be Paul "let's write something controversial to earn money" Parker. Game of opinions I agree and he is a nothing and noone for me.

Deeps.

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03 Sep 2014 15:31:04
I read his column, read it last night. Whilst it does come across as hard he was also spot on. He was poor against Burnley.

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03 Sep 2014 11:15:42
Did Welbeck just have a parting shot by saying he 'dreamt' to play for Arsenal?
Welbeck didn't get as many chances up front as he did in the left side, but he didn't improve too much with his shooting.
Still, it hurts to see him in an Arsenal shirt praising United's historic rivals. Nothing wrong in his comments about Arsenal's midfield though.
Wish him good luck anyways.

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Tony Adams sums it up perfectly mate.

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Yeah mate. Its time to stop being emotional for the greater good as well. We have been stuck with mediocre players for a while now. Not anymore.

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Syd can you share Tony Adams's article?

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I'll share a quote bud:

Tony Adams: "Arsenal can't beat #mufc to a top signing & have to make do with their cast offs. That says a lot."

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Syd - The Beast disagrees, he thought we will build our team around Welbeck and Anderson. On a serious note, how can someone say that he is a good enough for a club like us. Wait till he falls on his roller skates for the Gooners

Deeps.

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Was just reading Mitten's UWS . Welbeck was apparently all smug and pitchy in training, post which LVG had asked him to shape up or ship out. Not that I believe Mitten, but if yes, so much for a home grown loves the club bleeds United lad.

Deeps.

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I loved being misquoted by you Pink & GDS2.

I have said no such thing. I am saying that a fit Anderson would contribute more than Fletcher, Carrick & Celeverly,, likewise Welbeck would contribute more than Mata & Rooney, not that our team should be built around them or that they are world beaters. With our pre this window team they offered something in key positions that are other players couldn't and we needed it. They run at teams and open up space, something we have been lacking a great deal of for ages.

If you are going to keep bringing up my views, please do me the courtesy of using them properly!

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03 Sep 2014 11:07:53
Hi Ed

Just a quick question, do you think Rojo work permit will be sorted for QPR?

Thanks

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{Ed002's Note - I have no way of answering that Ne99il. Until such time as the legal issue is addressed, not necessarily resolved, to the satisfaction of the Argentine and British authorities, they will not seek to process the application. The Argentine authorities can block his international clearance.}

03 Sep 2014 11:59:36
Ed002, When/if he gets his international clearance will he be able to play for us?

Can you register a player in your squad without international clearance?

If not then I would have thought with the window now being closed we would have to wait until the window for player registration opens again before he would be allowed to make his debut. Or have I got this completely wrong?

Thanks in advance.

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{Ed002's Note - I dealt with this yesterday.}

Ok cool, I wasn't about yesterday so will take the advice you so often give and use the search function;-) Cheers.

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03 Sep 2014 11:06:39
One thing that has bugged me for pretty long now is our obsession with buying players that are almost out and out attacking midfielders and then playing them anywhere else.
This is not a post defending any player that has underperformed for various reasons.
It starts off with a certain paul scholes who I think used to play much further forward in the early part of his career.Later he was turned into a deep playmaker and he just perfected that role.so if it worked once it should work again, right?
When anderson came in we were all very excited.He looked very ronaldinho-ish in what little we'd seen of him before he came here.But then he was pushed very deep and even though he did ok initially, that was a real waste of his real talent.
Even when cleverly was praised early on, it was when he played just outside the box with all the one touch football and movement.
Sure, both of them did good in a couple of games as proper central midfielders but I don't think that would have lasted for very long.Why? Cause they weren't central midfielders.there is a lot more to a CM than just pinging a 60 yard pass.From positioning, tracking back, controlling play, knowing when to make a risky pass and when to shoot.Its a lot more.Just because you play someone as a CM doesn't make him one.
Enter kagawa.Another brilliant CAM, played everywhere but at his position.Then he was blamed by many for "not having taken his chance" even though the only time i've seen our team play decent football has been when he was played centrally. And in most matches, even when he was played as a CAM it was as a sub for 20 odd min.Then on the wings again in the next match.
We can even see this in our younger players like petrucci and powell. Injuries aside, petrucci was called the next totti and played where totti has never played.Powell again was played as some sort of CM against MK dons.Why did we buy these players when we never played that system?
Imagine we got ronaldinho at the age of 18 when he was much less known.If he was made available we'd never turn down the chance.Where would he play?Next to scholes?Even he would regress.Its not just the formation, its the system.If you have just 2 CMs, then they are responsible for everything.
And yes, many of the players I mentioned were not big enough so we would change our system for them.But then why buy them?An average CM will do a better job in the midfield than an AM out of position.Not every player is a scholes or a lahm or a schweinsteiger who can adapt to the midfield.

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Some such as Scholes was able to adapt, but not all can. We've tended to buy player and try and adapt them as there were very few who was able to play such a role as very few teams world wide played with such an out dated system. Most were playing with three in the middle.

Anderson did well in his first season as we tended to play 433 with Hargreaves, Scholes and Anderson as the midfield three with Anderson playing as the most advanced and Rooney Ronaldo and Tevez playing the forward three roles.

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03 Sep 2014 10:18:45
Now that the dust has settled, rather than talk about signings, non signings, formations and player selections I thought I would throw something else into the mix and that is how we deal with the young players that we have, or had at our club.
In recent years it seems that we appear to think that the way to develop young future stars, welbeck, cleverley, powell is to continually send them out on loan and hope that by the time they reach 23/24 they will be ready for a regular first team place. We wanted to sign both ramsey and oxlade c. Both went to aresnal, were put into the first team and are now both first choice players and full internationals. I suspect that we would have loaned them out and hoped that they would develop. We currently have Nick Powell who I have been impressed with the few times that I have seem him. He I is of course 2 footed, something that those so called legends beckham, gerrard and lampard never were. I can just see him reaching 22/23, deciding that he wants regular first team football, moving on for a few million, flourishing somewhere else, maybe becoming an international and regretting the 3/4 years he had at united. We did of course have Pogba, preferred to bring a 37 yr old out of retirement which may have contributed to him moving on. He is of course now a full international and if we wanted to buy him back we would have to shell out the best part of £50m.
This lastly brings me to our current diamond, janujaz. If we are to persist with 3 5 2 where will he play? I think it is safe to assume that he won;t play a holding roll or wing back which leaves the other 2 midfield places or one of the 2 up front. This puts in competition with 2 S american superstars, the captain of Holland, the captain of Utd and England plus 2 Spanish midfielders that cost us around £70m to bring in. I can just hear is agent now whispering into his ear saying how he can arrange a transfer to a club where he will get regular football and double the wages. let's not lose a potential 'galactico' by not playing him.
Anyway sorry for the lengthy post but it is my birthday today so you have to indulge me!

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03 Sep 2014 11:00:42
If you are saying about Ox and Ramsey then surely you need to also talk about Smalling and Jones who you seem to have forgotten about. We signed Jones at 18 and put him straight into the first team.

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03 Sep 2014 14:29:05
"We signed Jones at 18 and put him straight into the first team"

- Not true

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03 Sep 2014 10:14:03
Hi lads and lasses, Leicester fan here in peace. I see we have aquired a young lad "TOM" would be good if anyone would tell me a little or a lot about him :-) many thanks and looking forward to our meeting in a few weeks, good luck for the season, better if you fin above chelski :-)

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03 Sep 2014 10:49:00
Guy has a great potential,has good dribbling skills,can play in variety of positions.

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He is quick and tricky, a very good crosser of the ball and can play out wide as a winger or as a wide forward. He can play centrally but will need to improve on his awareness to play there long term. He will become a very good player for you if he is played in the right way and allowed to progress. He will suit the way you have looked to play so far this season.

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A steel for the price paid.

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03 Sep 2014 11:37:16
Bluefox, I think the fact that a lot of people on here thought he should only be going on loan, rather than being sold, tells you a lot about him. You've got yourself a good little player there.

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Excellent, rate him as much as I rate the likes of Pearson, Perreira, Rothwell, Harrop

Deeps.

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03 Sep 2014 10:02:05
Hi Eds Love the site don't post much keep up the good work, can I ask what happened to the Vidal bid/interest did we not pursue because of his knee/price or was player not interested. Also might we try again for him Jan window or next summer. Lastly have we any interest in Shawcross from Stoke think he could do a job for us knows the premiership inside out and is a good footballer

Thanks

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{Ed002's Note - Circumstances were such that Vidal was not going to move this summer. I am not aware of interest from Manchester United in RS.}

03 Sep 2014 09:30:56
I don't understand why people including Mike Phelan are jumping on the back of the club saying we are "broken" and "lost our identity".
Would they rather we stuck with Welbeck, Cleverley, and other academy lads who simply haven't been god enough. Everyone thinks that because the Class of 92 came through and were successful that the rest should be at that standard. If we stuck with that "philosophy" then we would get massively left behind. Football is a results game now, financial juggernaut because of it. Surely the critics know that?
We still have academy lads in the first team squad, can City, Chelsea etc say the same? Yet as soon as we spend some money we get a kick in from the same people who said we "need to spend big" last season.

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We have been broken ever since SAF left. We went from 1st to 7th overnight.

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I am fed up with all the city and chelski fans saying we are trying to buy success and it is no different to what they have done when will they understand that the major difference is our club earned this money while our owners continually take money out and their clubs just received handouts

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03 Sep 2014 10:13:05
Mr Phealen was part of a management team that bid but was unsuccessful for Ronaldinho, benzema lucas etc etc and was also part of a management team that sold home grown phil neville john o shea beckham and butt so please Mr Phealen needs to be ignored at this stage the only thing that's changed is that we were succesful in our bids for big players this year. We have always sold on players we have deloped but that are not quite 1st team starters.

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03 Sep 2014 11:02:26
red79,

Just ignore them, every single Chelsea and City fan knows full well the difference between our spend and their spend, they just choose to ignore it to 'banter' with us.

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All I heard from Phelan's comments was “It was so much better when I was there”.

Truth is, how many times have United broken the transfer record in the past? We ALWAYS bought a top quality addition to the starting 11 when it was needed – this summer, we've needed it far more than any other transfer window. Cleverly and Welbeck have had a few years to prove themselves worthy of a starting 11 position and neither have taken those chances. I'm sorry to see Welbeck go but he never going to break into the 11 without injuries, so if wants to leave, let him go.

It's our 'identity' that got us into the mess of last season. Allowing SAF to pick a successor in his own mould; relying on the old guard when it was clear they were fading; playing academy players like Cleverly and Welbeck when they were not good enough to start.

Expecting continued success while refusing to move with the times.

Football has changed. The Class of 92 was a complete anomaly, as proven by no other club (including us) repeating that crop of excellent young players for almost 15yrs. Now, you either buy top players to compliment your young, homegrown talent, or you fall behind badly.

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03 Sep 2014 09:09:27
Lots of stories and opinions going around just now that United have lost their identity by selling Welbeck. Utter garbage in my opinion, in the first 3 weeks of the season we've played Reece James, Tyler Blackett, Jesse Lingard and other such as Keane and Wilson. Yes injuries have played a part in this but these players are actively within the first team squad.

No one seems to be concerned that we have got rid of Cleverley despite him coming through our youth system. It's simply because people think Welbeck is better than he is because he is energetic and strong. The fact is if the youth are good enough LVG will play them, he has a track record of doing it and won a Champions League by playing lots of talented youngsters.

Welbeck if he stayed would have been 4th choice forward now assuming we still signed Falcao. For me he was never good enough to be our number 9 who starts every week but was a good squad player to have. However, is he better than Rooney, Falcao or RVP? No. Will James Wilson become a better centre forward than him? I think so.

I compare Welbeck to players like Walcott, Lennon and Townsend. People rate him highly because he's quick but truthfully you don't give the ball to players like Welbeck to provide a bit of magic to score a goal or unlock a defence. RVP, Rooney, Falcao, Mata and Di Maria all have a much better track record of that and for me though Welbeck will be missed as a squad player I have no problem with the sale considering the players brought in.

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03 Sep 2014 08:19:34
Let me start out by saying that I'm more than happy with United's transfer business this summer. They addressed the majority of problem areas within the first team and shuffled out several of the deadwood/fringe players in one window.

It will take time, as Van Gaal continuously reiterates, for this team to gel and become comfortable in his 'philosophy' and for the good results to come. I'm patient and believe this.

Do people think Falcao is the same player he was before his injury? He's easily been one of the top 5 strikers in the world the past few years. It's hard to see how Van Gaal would typically line up his attack if everyone's fit, but it's a squad game and United have fantastic depth in attack on paper.

I think Blind will prove to be a solid signing. People have been throwing around the term "glorified John O Shea" in a negative way, and honestly John O Shea served the club incredibly as a utility player and I think Blind's versatility will be invaluable given all of the injuries. He's also come off a very solid season playing CDM for Ajax, a position that United is painfully weak in.

Sorry to see Welbeck leave. Always gave his all and I think he could turn out to be a good piece of business for Arsenal. Shinji as well, but I can understand that sale a little bit more.

Excited for the PL to pick back up though, can't wait for Van Gaal's team sheet against QPR.

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03 Sep 2014 06:51:35
Eds, great work on the site and the transfer deadline day. Couldn't keep my eyes off the site.
I am surprised and agitated by the number of ex-ManUtd people saying about losing identity and what the club stands for etc. It is indeed irritating that so many people has so much say.
The football world has evolved and whist we were able to "try" to do that under SAF, it is indeed challenging to continue that now. Imagine if we were to keep nurturing people like DW and TC etc, Man Utd will keep going down the table and maybe even be relegated. We need to choose between:
a) Do we want to get back to CL
b) Do we want to win the BPL
c) Do we want to continue backing those who came through the system but yet cannot perform at top level

We definitely need to achieve a & b but c would be possible if we have achieve the first two. That would be a luxury. I am very sure the same ex-Man Utd people would agree that if we cannot make a & b and got relegated, c will be low on the priority list.

Similarly, I am sure the management team is trying to do all it can to bring us back to glory days, else there will be serious financial repercussions as well as facing explaining to the fans. These are things which ex-Man Utd people do not face and hence easy to comment.

Point of the matter is: let the manager do what he is brought in to do and judge later. The team has done reasonably well in the transfer window and we should have a good chance of getting back to CL and hopefully win the PL (unlikely I feel). But at least it is worth a shot.

Believable7 Unbelievable1

Uniteds 'identity' went years ago. Yes we have always tried to bring youngsters through, but it's a different world now.
Kids we thought would make it didn't and those that were nearly there didn't wait around for a first team place (Pogba).
Very few clubs can boast about their Acadamies. City now have a huge youth academy but how many of them ever see first team action? Chelsea too. They rattle on about youth development, but Mourinho has no record of promoting youth.
Football has moved on and success has to be instant for most Chairmen. Unless a kid is out of this world at 16, clubs won't wait, needing to satisfy boards and fans instantly.

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03 Sep 2014 08:33:11
I personally think we only replaced players who were not the same players as they were before in terms of performance. Ferdinand,Vidic,Evra,Scholes,Giggs were replaced By Rojo,Shaw,Hererra,Dimaria and blind. So we did nothing wrong in that, everyone can't be replaced from the academy,also in today's market price for good players is quite inflated as we all know.
So we did good business.

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I think this only becomes an issue for our club IF we stop giving them a chance I have no problem with us selling youth team products as long as they were given a chance to succeed whether that be playing for our 1st team or going out on loan if they get their shot and don't take it then it wasn't meant to be the only one that has annoyed me in recent times is pogba because he wasn't given a chance if fergie had sent him out on loan and told him to prove that he is ready for the 1st team the following season I think he might of stayed

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03 Sep 2014 02:33:44
I found article about the reason behind Welbeck transfers to rival Arsenal. LvG's philosophy seems become more attractive and convincing.

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03 Sep 2014 09:45:51
Does LVG have a philosophy? He should have said.

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Devil care to share a link of the article?
Would be good to read it

Cheers

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03 Sep 2014 01:22:15
Still in shock we got falcao to be honest. One of the best strikers in world football. I did not want welbeck to leave but I am told by a source close to the club that lvg did not think welbeck was technical enough and had serious doubts regarding his finishing. He did not believe welbeck could fire us into the champions league hence falcao arriving. Lvg had to choose between welbeck and wilson and obviously young james is seen as the better all round player for the future. I wish danny all the best. I do not agree selling to a rival and if arsenal finish top 4 at our expense helped by welbecks goals it will ne bad business. However I think a fully fit falcao, rooney.rvp, wilson, adnan, di maria is an amazing frontline. Lvg for me deserves so much credit for having the balls to analyse the players and then get rid of the ones who he deemed not good enough and bringing in others. Never before has there been so much activity at old trafford. Most of the players that have gone I am sure the fans agree with and have been replaced with better quality. Fergie and moyes should of been getting rid and building the team again. Lvg has only begun and I think he will still go for strootman and a centre half come january/summer. He will also get rid of more players but all in all he has done the right thing and I think it will improve the atmosphere at the club. Having players who do not want to be there or who are not giving 110 percent has a negative effect on other players. I think lvg is the right man to rebuild the club and in time we will all see why. I know we could of done with a centre half and possibly central midfielder but it is very difficult to get all business done in one window. I think attack wise we are up there for quality with the very best. Blind and herrera will improve the midfield no end and carrick is still to come in. I think having shaw and rafael on the sides to come back will also make us so much stronger and direct. Di maria will give us energy and adnan and mata also give us star quality. I think a good win and performance against qpr would set us on our way and we can kick on. Lvg has balls and will get it right I am convinced.

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I agree with everything you have said

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Yes, good post. It was never going to be painless for the under achievers. LvG has shown his ruthless side, and it won't have gone unnoticed by the players that remain. We may not succeed for a little while, but it won't be for lack of effort. Once the players are all fit and understanding of the system, I'm sure we'll be more like the old United.

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03 Sep 2014 05:29:47
New Blog by Chris the REDman can be read and commented on entitled, Summary on Where Manchester United are Now

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03 Sep 2014 09:57:33
Thanks ed :-)

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