Manchester United Banter Archive December 04 2012

04 Dec 2012 22:25:00
Ed, when we sell Nani do you actually seeing us repacing him with a winger? I have been thinking that we might be tempted to more of a 4-3-3 / diamond. Lewandowski I think we might replace Nani, not someone like Rodriguez. We could then have a front 3 of RVP, Rooney and Lewandowski and a midfield 3 of something like Kagawa, Anderson and Strootman. We'd then have width of Valencia and Young to use and I think Welbeck will become more of a wide man.

I'd like to say that we'll go for Lewandowski, Hummels, Baines, Strootman and perhaps someone like Vadillo who is cheaper but also better than the English wide players we are linked with - especially Zaha.

It is certain that we need serious investment as we are going to lose a lot of experience in the summer so the squad will need rebuilding. It will still be evolution instead of revolution, but I expect a few more than normal.

Fresh! {Ed004's Note - I think we will look for a replacement for Nani. We tried to sign moura and hazard and have been heavily scouting Rodriguez}

ED004 I can't see us signing Rodriguez for the kind of money Porto wants and I personally not sure he would be sure thing in the PL.

I think we might sell Nani and not end up buying anyone until the summer as SAF has a habit of playing the current squad in all kind of positions that is not a natural fit for the players.

Shahram

Shahram {Ed004's Note - I think he would get a good fit}

So Ed you think we will cough up 35 million euros for him?

Shahram {Ed004's Note - I think we will get him for less than that}

04 Dec 2012 21:38:13
We talk about Rooney playing deep, tevez was nearlya cb today
Jred

Rooney has been that far back all season.

04 Dec 2012 20:21:50
Like the look of Fejsa. 24 year old Serb from Olympiacos. Defensive mid/centre back. Could be a shrewd purchase?

04 Dec 2012 18:49:25
Love the way we're all already referring to Lewandowski as 'Lewy', as if he's ours already :)

StevieK

It beats trying to spell his name
jred

It is just quicker to type that is all.

I know guys. I'm sure he'll be that Polish w****r if he goes somewhere else :)

StevieK

04 Dec 2012 18:36:11
ed but my point being he has been playing regular and in my opion would be more use than scholes and giggs, his set plays and free kick would be very useful, i personaly think it would be very worth it. joey {Ed007's Note - Sneijder?}

Bond he meant Beckham

Is this a game of guess who?

19-20 MUFC

04 Dec 2012 17:59:43
hey peeps. what would everyone think of beckham coming home? i personaly think he could still do a good job and in my opinion still amazing at set plays and of course free kicks. so anybody includings eds where will he go? him back at manchester united would be perfect. joey {Ed004's Note - I wouldn't want him back. People complain about Scholes and Giggs playing yet want us to sign Beckham}

Joey, are you serious? Legend, great bloke and so but his legs went years ago. He'd struggle in the Championship now.

AJH

His legs had started to go when he left us and resorted to crossing the ball from the halfway line get a grip that man

Pardoe

04 Dec 2012 17:34:05
Am i missing something? Why are we being linked to strikers wingers and attack minded midfielders? Why do people feel we need them?

We have scored 9 goals more than any other team in the league while playing poorly. We have Nani Valencia and Kagawa out injuried, Rooney Welbeck and Young have also spent time out injuried this season and yet we are still scoring hat fulls of goals.

So why the hell would we need more goal scorers or creaters? Where would they fit in?

No our problem is at the other end of the field. Only 7 teams have conceded more goals this season than us. only Spurs out of the top ten teams in the league have conceded more goals than us. We've conceded as many goals as Norwich for gods sake and their 13th!!

So it is the defensive aspect of our team that needs adressing not the offensive(which is the best in the league).

So whats wrong with our defence?

Well on a personel level not alot. Obviously Evra is a cause for concern, But Rafael has been probably the best RB in the league so far this year, Vidic is still a top defender, Smalling and Jones have great potential and Evans with the exception of saturday has really stepped upto the plate. Rio may have lost his pace but his experiance is vital especially in europe.

So what's the problem?

Consistancy, a solid defence is built as a unit, you need to defend as a unit to over come the best attackers in the world. To bulid a solid defensive unit you need consistancy in team selection.

This season we keep changing not only defenders but the goalkeeper too. This leads to a break down in comunication which leads to us concededing silly goals. Not all of the changes are down to squad rotation as injury has played a big part.

It's no coincedence that Evans and Rafael have been our best defenders this season as they have been played the most consistantly.

So imo with Vidic Evans Smalling and Jones as options at CB along with Keane and Blackett coming through even with Rio possibly leaving in the summer i see no need to sign another CB. We just need to work at keeping everyone fit and picking a consistant back four.

We do imo need an experianced LB to come in as we have quite a young defence so having someone with abit of experiance would be ideal whilst also replacing Evra who is the consant weak point in our defence. personally i think either Baines or Izaguirre would be best.

So would that sort our defence out?

yes and no, the other big problem we have from a defensive aspect is we are too open and slow in midfield and don't offer the defence enough cover. This also stops us imposing ourselves on teams and dominating them.

We have plenty of creative midfielders in Cleverley, Anderson and Kagawa, as well as players like Powell and Petrucci not far from the first team. But from a defensive aspect we have Carrick who although does an a good job isn't really a DM, Fletcher who is recovering from a serious illness and Tunnicliffe who isn't ready yet.

So who should we get to inject some energy and defensive covering in midfield. Here's my surgestions.

Sami Khedira is the experianced and proven choice at the highest level. He has the energy and work rate to fit perfectly into our team. Would Madrid sell him? and would he want to come seems to be the stumbling blocks.

Sandro is the obvious choice from within the prem, But he is more a tradtional DM than others on this list and as such offers less going forward. He'd make us solid but not drive us forward.

Kevin Strootman seems to be the media's choice, he is a very good young player but is still unproven at the highest level. He is also the most attacking of the players on this list and could at times leave us alittle open in the middle.

Lars Bender is a great option, he is excellent from a defensive aspect and has the technical abilities to play a more active role in our team then just a DM.

Sebastian Rode, not all of you will know much about this lad. He has been sensational in germany so far this season. I was abit slow on the up take with this lad due to not watching as much Bundesliga this season as i normally do. But i've since watched him about 5/6 times and have been extremely impressed every time. I've also spoken to a couple of German friends of mine who were waxing lyircal about this lad saying he is the future of germanys midfield. He's also been voted in the top three best players in the bundesliga so far this season by two seperate important media sources. So if we are looking at a less estabished player then it really has to be this lad.

So if we were to get a better LB and get some consistancy in the back four plus stick with one keeper and get someone to provide us a solid midfield. Then i think we'd tighten up our leaky defence and create a more solid base from which to start our attacks which would probably lead to more goal scoring chances and even more goals scored.

If we are to sign an attack minded player then i'd be more inclinded to go for a younger player who would be happy to rotate. Someone who can play on the left wing or more centrally, Personally i'd go for Tom Ince. He's young English and talented, He's left footed which we need and can play on the left wing or inside left or even centrally. He ticks all the boxes and would be cheap.

I'd like to see us sign Baines, Khedira/Rode and Ince and i'd be happy with that as we have alot of very good youngsters coming through who we need to make space for.

Shappy

I think we need Baines, Strootman a new winger and a CB (if we sell rio or vidic)

ins:
baines10M
Strooman 14M
Rodriguez 25M + Nani
CB: ogbonna, benatia or hummels.

Shapps

I think we are still 2CMers away from sorting our issues out. A defensive minded player like Khedira and dynamic deep playmaker who can support the attack aswell like Cabaye.

Jono

I havent seen one of those mammoth posts in a while Shappy !

Mick {Ed007's Note - Shappy's length never fails to impress ;-)

Shappy i think we need to just pick a keeper and stick to him, preferably De Gea. if he is unsettled as does want to leave then Adler in to replace him.

I'd go in for Baines in January and Ince as well, and summer go for Bender.
Mort {Ed004's Note - I like the look of ter stegen.}

Oh and may I add a couple of points.
1- Rode is 22, plays for Eintrach Frankfurt and he is one of the reasons they're playing so well ( they re a bit like Westbrom of the bundesliga). He is good with the ball and can intercept well. His only downsides are his tackling ( decent tackler,, but that's it ) and rather small frame.

2- Another player that would be useful from the bundesliga is Roman Neustader. He is just one year older than Rode, not much of a tackler either, but he is better defensivly. His interception stats are remarkable. He is not as good with the ball but offers a more physical presence.
I actualy talked about both players on more than 1 occasion. I think the bundesliga is very underrated and they have some real gems in germany.

3- I always thought you had a thing for capoue, you always seemed to want him in a red shirt. On the list, he is probably the worst with the ball at his feet, but he is an absolute tank in central midfield. A physical beast, he is extremly disciplined and rarely loses possession due to his strength.

You can also add Wanyama, Vidal and the other Bender, but everyone knows about them.

Mick

Bonds on form....

Mort

I think 2 would be necessary if the Dm we sign gets injured we would fall apart again so id go with Rode and Sandro, neither play every club game and one could replace Carrick, so rotation wouldnt be an issue. as Rode is still young and would be happy at such a big club (United)

Strootman, Lewandowski, Ince, Baines, Hummels & Sneijder to replace Nani, Ferdinand, Evra, Scholes, Giggs.

RD19

I've not seen as much of Ter Stegen ed so went with Adler, not sure there's many contenders really. Mort

Right, i don't really don't think we need a CB unless Rio AND Vidic leave which is highly unlikely.

Jono, i don't think we need two midfielders as we will still have Carrick Cleverley Anderson Fletcher Petrucci Powell and Tunnicliffe to fill 2/3 positions in the team. And only one of those SEVEN are over 30.

Mort, i'd stick with DDG, lindegaard is a solid back up keeper but not good enough for a top team. From what DDG has said and how he seems in public he doesn't seem unsettled, but if he is then there are several very good alternatives, Adler and Ter Stegen being good options, i also like Leno.

Mick, i do like Capoue and i think he is a good player, but as you pointed out he is limited. If we were going to play a three man midfield then he would be a great option but i think we'll play a two man midfield more often than not which wouldn't allow for a player with limited passing ability. For me Wanyama is still two raw, Vidal is out of reach at Juve and i feel Sven Bender a little limited too.

RD19, do you really think we'll see 6 new players in the space of six months, thats not evolution but revolution. That is not Sir Alex's way.

And as i've already said i don't see us signing two midfielders. We have Fletcher(who just needs time to get back to form) and young Tunnicliffe who can step in if the new DM is injured, i don't see the logic in signing two players to play on position.

And Bond your right i do get many admiring glances due to my length;-)
lol.

Shappy

Now we know why "shappy is happy"

04 Dec 2012 16:56:39
"Kagawa started running today and he may make the bench [against Manchester City],Obviously Nani and Valencia are still out and that's why I played Rooney on wide right." fergy
jred

04 Dec 2012 16:29:12
Does anyone think, that our defence could be our downfall this season? Fergie has mentioned that it must improve for months now, yet with every match it gets worse......
I believe that Jones and Smalling are potentially great talents.....but would you trust them in central defence against Man City?
My Christmas wishlist.....is for Fergie to go out in January and buy us another "Vidic".....he did it before, and we really need it again.
I'm happy with the attacking options, but still believe our centre midfield is weak.....would love to buy Fellaini, as he isn't cup tied for Europe.....any thought people?

Would trust Smalling over any of the other defenders.

Sydney!

04 Dec 2012 12:59:36
Does anyone remember that a few weeks ago Inter coach came out and said how he had been asked by SAF not to take Pogba and how they just didnt indulge in signing him? Well why you guys think Inter will not tell Fergie to stay away from Sniejder if he is released in Jan?

baba octopus

If Sneijder is released what would it matter to Inter where he goes? SAF asked Inter to stay away from Pogba as he was one of his brightest young talents - the Pogba situation and the Sneijder situation are poles apart.

Fresh!

United and Inter have an agreement with each other to not take each others best young talents (apparently)

Actually it was Massimi Moratti who said that. And i think it's complete bull***. He lost out to Juve and started making excuses.

Mick

I swear if we get Sneijder on a free or for a dirt cheap price. I would be ecstatic he is still a class act.

Hes overated, plus his wage demand would be to much.

For a fee of 5m or less and on wages of between 80-120k a week on a three year deal with a one year extension option then he's worth going for as he is still a class player but for how long is the question. Plus he plays in a position where we are quite strong with Rooney and Kagawa so we don't need him. But on a cheap deal with fair wages then it's a no brainer.

Shappy

Shapps

I think if we got him he would drop back into CM and be that deep playmaker next to Carrick/new defensive player. I think that was the plan when we were after him before aswell although Syd couldn't see this ;-)

Jono

Think its really dependent on getting that defensive player in though. Unless we're kidnapping and brainwashing Vidal i wouldn't hold my breath.

04 Dec 2012 12:56:04
Sneijder, Lewandowski, Baines, Zouma & Strootman, would people be happy with this?

It would mean we'd have to sell 4 players over 21. We got 25 as it is when Fabio comes back.

Scholes, Giggs, Nani & ????????

TJ

Evra
Rio maybe
CardiffRED

We'd also need to replace Nani....

04 Dec 2012 11:41:40
Does anyone know when the Champions League last 16 draw is?
MUFC19

Dec.20

04 Dec 2012 10:27:45
Syd
rooney and kags have played in 2 and half games together and dont forget valencia young and nani have all been injured.

so what is it that your saying , rooney is now a midfielder?

for me rooney has only played 1 season as an out and out striker his played in the hole he's played wide right his played wide left and he's always dropped back.

the difference is he is having to do it a bit more because we lack creativity in the middle.
nani has struggled for form and been injured
valencia has struggled for form and been injured
young has been injured
i dont think anderson has completed 90 minutes
kags is injured
flech is coming back from injury
scholes looks like time has caught up same as giggs.
rooney is filling in imo.

when we first bought rooney he was criticized then for dropping back to much with the exception of one season i think he has always done it
jred

---------------------------------------------------

Jred

Your assesment is spot on. With the amount of positions that he has played in and injuries/sickness, a return of 5 goals and 9 assists is not that bad after all. People talk about the impact of RVP, whilst i agree he has been a major hit but could anyone give me the stats as to how many of his goals were assisted by Rooney? I remember a fair few. I genuinely think RVP was bought to play with Rooney. We do not need Lewandowski. I would opt for a front pair of RVP/Rooney any given day. And with all the talk of flair players who would outshine him, it isent only about scoring/creating goals is it? I dont see anyone of Ozil/Rodriguez etc tracking back like Wayne does. Infact Ozil barely manages to clock in the entire shift. Rooney is definitely not playing in his favourite position, he is doing his bit for a team which is struggling for options. Money can buy you talent, but how would you replace a player who quite simply lifts the team/team mates. See Norwich for example. I would use the Lewandowski funds to buy a World Class CM. I think once our midfield is sorted, Rooney/Rvp partnership would be unstoppable.

Deeps...

Deeps,

That's all good but how would you buy a world class midfielder for the money we would spend on lewandowski. We cannot afford to turn down a player for half of what he is worth who offers something different to what we have.

If we sell nani we will have about 70 million to spend, 12 mill on lewandowski leaves about 58 million for other players, enough to buy what we need surely?

GDS

GDS

I meant that the Lewandowski funds + the remaining budget would be utilized to buy a LB, 2 CMs(Preferrably) and a Winger to replace Nani. By 70 million, i think you meant 50 from the initial budget and 20 from Nani's sale. Would 58 million be enough for the replacements? I am not even considering the need for a CB coz i think Jones/Smalling will step up to the plate. And lol, i surely dont want a sugar daddyesque 150 million splurge. So just thought, we are pretty good with our frontline, would want the money used elsewhere :).

Deeps....

I dont get that, GDS. It doesn't make sense to me.

So, if say, Angel di Maria became available for £15m, we should 100% go in for him because we can't afford to see a 30m player go elsewhere for half-price?

Personally, I'm sick of us targeting strikers and wingers. If SAF uses our transfer kitty on Lewandowski, and we are still fielding Giggs, Scholes, a semi-ill Fletcher in CM.....the man is losing the plot.

RED_SKY

Gds
if thats the case why not go for Llorente who will be free in the summer
jred

Lewandowski will be 24 in the summer, llotente would be 28, fergie has been looking at lewy for a long time by all accounts. So many people come on here and say welbeck isn't good enough and shouldn't be playing for us, but when we look at signing a player better than him people complain and say we don't need him. Who's to say Rooney will not leave in the summer as well?

Just think people are too quick to judge and moan and we would still have the money to spend elsewhere even with a 12 mill signing.

GDS

Gds
I think the problem is look at how many post about lew include sell rooney and buy lewandowski.
for a start i wouldnt sell rooney and if i did i wouldnt replace him with lew as i think one is a creative second striker and lew is more an out an out.
we have rvp i dont think we need lew

also i would say both lew and llorente are worth 25 +so if we cant afford to miss out on lew for half price can we afford to mis out on llorente for nothing.

but the truth is i think most people are happy with our attack rooney /rvp could be brilliant on paper is there a better front 2?
then you have chica whos great coming of the bench and a young local lad in welbeck who imo wont be a star for us but will be a top squad player.
if we buy lew i think 1 of them would have to go , who would you get rid off?
jred

Lewy works very hard off the ball too. Wages would be moderate and there will not be much of a signing on fee. Llorente would probably end up costing more as a package.

Sydney!

Syd
its all in theory i wouldnt buy either but on the basis of "we cant miss out on lew as he is half price" surely you could argue we cant miss out llorente as he would cost nothing.

I personally wouldn't buy any player on the basis his cheap,
jred

The manager wouldn't do that either Jred, or we would have bought Witsel or Defour from Belgium or Pjanic from Lyon for cheap. Even Scott Parker for free. The manager will buy a player because he wants that player, being cheap is a bonus. RM do exactly the same thing on occasions. Sahin, Oezil & Khedira spring to mind.

Sydney!

Syd
yer i know but i was replying to gds post above, like i said its just in theory
jred

04 Dec 2012 10:11:33
How about we just pillage Dortmund over the next few windows and we will be set up for a while. Klopp can can complete the immigration process once the main man decides to move up stairs which is fast approaching.

Supasub

04 Dec 2012 09:25:09
The more that is said about this Sneijder stuff, the more likely it is that we are going to sign him as he is so cheap but quality. I'm sure there was interest there, and SAF does always get his man. For a cheap fee it is worth it. But I'm not sure how we would use him..

Fresh!

It'll be interesting to see if SAF is tempted to go back in for him, if he goes on a free, i think we should consider it.

I would play him deeper than his usual position aka Scholes role, getting the ball and binging it to our forward players, there's not many players that could replace scholes if any but WS imo is one that could be brilliant for us, maybe take Carrick's spot?

Giants14

----------De Gea---------
Rafael-Smalling-Evans-Evra
---------New DM---------
---Clevs/Ando-Sneijder---
---------Kagawa--------
------RVP----Rooney----

That's how I think we would best line up with Sneijder, however i could also see him as one of the three in a 4-2-3-1. With Kagawa/new LW and Rooney either side of Sneijder down the center. I rate him very highly and I think 2 transfer windows of him, a new DM (Bender preferably), Baines and Isco/Rodriguez would be epic. Not just the depth, but the experience that would add to our squad would be unbelievable.

Andy!

WS would still be a quality signing and if he were free then its a no brainier but I feel I would rather Cabaye for that slot now.

He has many advantages over WS like age, prem exp, has adapted well etc but he would cost 25m I think so for cost if WS was free or dirt cheap and it leaves cash for another top CM then I would be happy with WS with a heavy heart knowing Cabaye will never join.

Jono

Andy
what about
----------carrick ---clevs----
rooney-------sneijder----kags
-------------rvp---

the front 3 could all interchange
jred

Looks really good, then we'd have Chicharito & Welbeck to rotate with. If we signed Lewandowski it would complicate things though, Ideally I'd like RVP, Chicharito & Lewandowski to be our strikers though. Maybe Welbeck can become more of a wide man?

Fresh!

04 Dec 2012 07:44:43
Ryan Shawcross as a replacement for Ferdinand? He is best defender that Stoke has! Someone we need?

ProgrammerFan.

Sigh, he's nowhere near as good as Evans, Jones, or Smalling. Why on Earth would we sign him?

AJH