Manchester United Banter Archive February 04 2014

 

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04 Feb 2014 22:15:24
hi mick1 mate, I read the post's on this site, I have been depressed lately so i'm trying to get out of being depressed, but it is hardwork.hope I make it and hope u are fine ok :) zee. banter ed's

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Hi Zee, sorry to hear you've been having a tough time. You're posts often make me smile and it would be nice to see you back posting regularly. Hope you feel better soon buddy, and take care of yourself. You have plenty of "football friends" on here whenever you feel like a bit of banter.

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{Ed007's Note - Take care Zee and hurry back.}

Well Zee you're the most cheerful poster on this site. You will pull through.

And remember, despite us being on each other's throats most of the time, we're still some sort of family on here and you're always welcome.

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04 Feb 2014 20:56:27
I am only posting this for Trev and because I was miffed about not being included in AJH's list of contributors.

You may know me for my total lack of understanding either of football or its finances, and for my extremely strong baseless pontifications thereon. I am given to bouts of logorrhea (very woody, don't you think?), and a desire to use long words that neither I nor anyone else knows the meaning of. But I am not so rigid as to forswear the ending of a sentence with a preposition. Wherever possible, which is often enough to make the simple complex, notwithstanding the Orwellian Newspeak into which modern language is rapidly descending, I like to use subordinate clauses. I have also become an admirer of Betty Swollocks, who, most undeservedly, also does not get a mention in the aforementioned post.

On the positive side I have been a supporter since 1961, choosing United, I surmise, largely because I sought the approval of my peers above that of my Dad, who preferred City. Living in the States for 30 years, I was most fortunate perhaps not to have any access to the sport during the dark years of Merseyside domination. My wife, who should not have been left alone in front of the TV, treacherously slipped into the Arsenal camp while I wasn't looking. She likes their style of football. What can you say?
I mean she can't even cook.

Sorry, but what else is there too write about? We've done Moyes and who he should have signed, whether or not they were available, to death. It is only through loss, that we really appreciate victory.

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Oh my, I have an admirer? Should I tell Mr.Swollocks? lol

Love you too Mr.Shooter.

Welcome to the madhouse Trev :)

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Cheers for the information peashooter. You sound like you have a good understanding of football haha. Look forward to further banter and debates.

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I also feel aggrieved by not being mentioned. Well, at least I'm not alone!

He also failed to mention our little mascot Zee.

On another note, Zee, where art thou?

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Aw come on pea, there were too many people for me to list everyone. I just went for the ones who are mentally unstable.

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AJH, I take offence to that mate. Are you implying that I AM mentally stable? lol

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Now I'm doubly insulted. Who wants to be sane?

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Guess I'm mentally stable in that case.

My psychiatrists will be so happy!

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No need to feel bad peashooter, AJH was gravitating towards his boyfriends; his judgement was clouded by love.

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I was going to argue AJH, but my imaginary friend persuaded me not too.

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Cheers, AJH :)

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04 Feb 2014 20:55:54
hey fellas things ain't been going well so hopefully this vid of chelsea fans answering questions on transfers about fake players will help you smile.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ytYBCOTUluo

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04 Feb 2014 20:29:30
Hopefully this Sunday the weather will not be blustery, rainy and horrible like the Stoke game. We will be able to get the ball down and play some football. We will be at home against a struggling team and we should finally get to see RvP, Rooney, Adnan/Young/Valencia & Mata show their magic. If they cannot produce the goods at a game like this, then 4th place is simply not going to happen. Vidic will return and will line up next to Smalling and should be a solid pairing. It's rumoured Fellaini will be fit enough to start and I'd imagine Carrick will sit alongside him. Finally we could see the team that Moyes has wanted to be able to play since his reign, or pretty close to it. I know we keep on saying it, but we really need a big run of wins. Liverpool, Everton & Spurs will all drop points over the next month and we need to take advantage of it.

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How do you see the team lining up Sydney? Is there room for Kagawa?
I agree that the time for excuses is now over, the players we have got need to perform?

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Young and Valencia show their magic. They are quite simply not good enough. Kagawa deserves a run in the team ahead of these two players. Neither Young or Valencia cut the mustard. They have no end product. i'd go as far to say give Lingard a 10-15 mins at the end of each game. He lacks experience but when you have two under performing wingers who continuously fustrate then it becomes a no brainer.

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Sydney

We should be able to beat Fulham but the key for me is to beat them by at least two clear goals and then it is the performance against Arsenal that we can hope for improvement on. I feel RVP may be highly motivated on that one.

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Red Man, I agree, we need a Bayer Leverkusen performance to install some much needed confidence. RvP and Rooney will be another match fitter. We would go into the Arsenal game as underdogs (what we would want) and a win there could chance our season. Under SAF we were never afraid to visit the Emirates. It was almost a home game for us at times. I hope we can once and for all get out of the mess and the players can get their mojo back.

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I think we can all agree that we need Rooney RVP Mata Januzaj Carrick to start.

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Please no Young.
For me the two central midfielders should be two three. Fellaini/Fletcher/Carrick.
Janujaz on the right, Mata on the left, rooney in the hole just behing RVP.

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Fellaini Carrick, then Januzaj left, Mata middle, Rooney right and RVP up top. All three behind RVP can interchange throughout the game but Mata is the ideal number 10 so needs to start there.

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04 Feb 2014 20:10:20
I would be interested to hear people's opinions of Diego Simeone at Athletico Madrid, does anyone think he has potential to manage a major club?

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More potential than moyes

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Any manager that just sold Falcao and has his team in first place above Barcelona and Madrid, despite their recent woes, has to be pretty darn good.

He won the Europa league, the super cup, the copa del Rey and got his team in the champions league in his first full season in charge. That man is a proven winner but I'd still take Klopp above him

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I forget about him, been doing a good job there, might be a little early for a big club but I'm sure it won't be too long before a bigger club comes knocking, he is respected throughout the world and the name would help to get top players in.

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If we could take Costa, Koke & Turan with him :)

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Class manager judged on career thus far. A matter of time before he gets a big job. though if he can win the league with Atletico and with their squad and style of football perhaps he's created one.

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Really good manager and team philosophy of defending in numbers and talisman upfront.

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04 Feb 2014 19:57:25
Laudrup has been sacked by Swansea. Unbelievable if you ask me, how dumb is that!

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Moyes out; Laudrup in ;)

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Very dumb indeed! on the other hand moyes getting the sack would be very shrewd and totaly logical given his total failure thus far! Moyes out now!

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He will be our best bet as a replacement for moyes now ;)

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Please .

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04 Feb 2014 19:30:52
Moyes must go.ok now I've said it. And I don't want to hear how fickle I am and how i'm not a real fan.cause that's bull.and don't waste your time telling me fergie got 4 years. You can't compare.fergie inherited a team had nt won the title in 20 odd years moyes was handed the champs. Fergie destroyed the old firm and even won european honours with aberdeen.moyes won nothing.l feel sorry for him but he has to go.he was never the man for the job. he's lost the dressing room, he's man management skills are poor, he's training methods are pre historic. The backroom staff are dirt compared to the staff he sacked.his transfer dealing are embarassing and the style of footie we play now is attrocies.there is no light at the end of the tunnel we have to sadly sack the man and rebuild under another before the club is permentely damaged.

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Totally agree with you chilly76 I never wanted Moyes and even said he might be sacked by Easter as we will be out of all 3 cup comps and not challenging for the title and so far he is proving me right. I don't necessarily agree with the transfers as I do think both will be good players for the club, but we could all see we needed two centre midfielders instead he buys two att mid players. Keeps changing the team, substitutions baffle me like welbeck for jones and move Rooney to cm when fletch was on the bench. The man isn't good enough end of! Reminds me of a rabbit in the headlights! Before anyone says fickle fan etc I was a season ticket holder from 87-91 and a member since so I have seen my far amount of rubbish players and games! Bring in a top manager or management team? Klopp? Blanc? Or team of Gary nev, becks, scholes? Rant over

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Chilly I don't agree with anything you said but fair play for putting your opinion out there. However this post could also be deemed to be a attempt at living under a bridge

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I agree mostly but what makes my blood boil the most is when he says we are playing well in matches when our performances in these matches wouldn't go a miss in the 80's second devision coupled with his costant complaints about our luck! Moyes out now!

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Judge him at the end of next season after he's had chance to build his team. What he inherited wasn't great.

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If you strongly disagree bookedredmole. argue why moyes is the 1.

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FZZ

Because people with a lot more knowledge and insight about the game than all of us put together selected him.

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Fzz I never said that moyes was the 1 but I don't agree that he needs to go now. In my opinion some of the things mentioned about losing the dressing room, poor man management, pre-historic training etc are just pure speculation and written by journalists for sensation (we are Manchester United the biggest target to shoot at). Its only my opinion but our performances this year have been of a par with those last season (but without rvp banging them in). I'm not of the opinion that bringing in fellaini and mata can be called embarrasing transfer dealings either. I hear many saying about klopp and he is a fantastic manager but he needed time to mould the squad. Moyes may not turn out to be our next Fergie but he should be afforded longer than this considering the injuries to key personnel and a ageing squad. I think this summer will be key and will give us a good indication of his long term plans. He may not be good enough but he needs a fair crack at the job.

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04 Feb 2014 10:36:15
Morning all.

If any of the eds are about I have a question if you can answer I read a story on tribal football that we were offered fernando from porto but moyes rejected the chance to sign him do you know if there is any truth in this

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{Ed002's Note - I am not aware of Moyes turning him down but there was a lot of posturing over Fernando during January.}

Ed002 is it true he has agreed to join city in the summer.

What do you mean by posturing if I may ask.

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{Ed002's Note - There is no contract but there is a verbal agreement after the finances were agreed. The posturing related to a new contract that he is going to refuse.}

04 Feb 2014 18:04:43
Look at Mourinho last night. Can you believe we turned him down for Moyes?

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Did we though? I remember an interview with sir Alex saying Chelsea will be difficult to beat with Jose back next year, that was before he even retired

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GAGUS, we didn't turn him down for Moyes.

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Going by ed002, he was always going to Chelsea anyway.

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{Ed002's Note - THere was zero chance of Mourinho joing MUFC.}

How dare you suggest there may have been someone else people would have preferred who might upset the odd person now and again.
One is like a good old reliable orange 80's Volvo 240, the other a Maserati quatroportte family saloon that can be a bit pricey for tyres when you've upset a few German sports car drivers at the lights. Erm, I know, tough choice.

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Yes the deciding factor was his head would not fit into Carrington apparently.

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If offered the job Jose would of took it. But that boat has sailed now, Klopp or blanc for me if we do decide to get rid of Moyes but after signing a six year deal never going to happen

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Supasub, can't believe you're comparing Jose to an 80's Volvo 240! He is orange though. lol

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I'm being generous swollocks. I had a family member who had a ginger looking lada riva. I think that would have been a more appropriate vehicle.

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04 Feb 2014 17:23:16
First time post, been a long time reader and admire everyone's posts! Great banter goes on and great opinions shared on this nervy, disappointing season (so far) I have my own opinions to but not going to go into that now! Also want to say well done to the eds on doing such a great job on the site!

Il be looking forward to joining in the banter and debates in the near future!

Trev the red1

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Welcome Trev. It's not normally like this, but tensions are running high :)

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Trev, welcome and all views are welcome. The ed's do a fantastic job and we all appreciate their insight.
Season has been disappointing but if we can have good results between now and the end of season and qualify for cl, then it will give us a lift for next year.

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Welcome to the site mate, look forward to reading your posts.

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Welcome Trev

I am sure you know some of the regulars by now but just in case:

StevieK is. Sarcastic and talks about his job a lot
Sydney is the oracle and never wrong, apart from the being. 25 points ahead of Liverpool thing
NoMidfield is very angry and feels something should be done.
I may be wrong, but I think Red Man wants a new Manager.
HoneyBadger is wise beyond his years (he's 11).
Ed02 is a man, or a woman, and doesn't like to discuss financials
GCU (Shahram)gets a lot of stick, most of it undeserved.
CTR (Chris) tells it how it is.
Jono wants to have Cabaye's babies.
Brendan usually talks sense.
GDS is optimistic, he is the yin to NoMidfield's yang.
Some like Mourinho, some hate Mourinho, go figure

We're kind of a dysfunctional family and we keep the mad uncle (KLOOT) locked in the cellar.

Me? I'm always very earnest and would never dream of. Stooping to StevieK's level of unnecessary sarcasm. No sir

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Just realised there are 2 Brendans. The one I was referring to was the inimitable Brendan81. I think either he's 81 or was born in '81, not sure which.

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Great post but you forgot about yourself :)

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Quality post AJH, although get your facts right, I don't turn 11 for a couple months :-D

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You forgot a few so I m going to lend a helping hand.

Jred and Syd are kind of like oil and vinegar and do not mix well, kind of like ali vs fraser :)

Shappy is the resident author but not been seen lately.

Deeps is quite smart and reads more than posts. He loves Wayne money so be warned to have sh…t fight if you say anything but how great wayne is :)

Fresh is still hoping to see CR07 back in a united shirt and has now resigned himself that when giggs finally retires at young age of 45 after leading United to our 4th CL trophy under watchful eyes of DM and in 5 years time Christiano being a young spring chicken by our standards will come home.

Finally, I don't want to brag but I am the really smart guy with common sense, who gets a kick out of having some banter with the negative nellies:)

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I've not earned myself a title yet, I must strive forward and post more, I've been reading this site since before we had separate club pages and you had to go through pages and pages of utter tripe to find some man united info

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Made me chuckle AJH

But where is Kloot?

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And wasn't it Percy who had a massive crush on Nani?

Ed004 is the resident Manchester United fan, Ed007 is always good for a chuckle.

Ngiak/ Gan or whatever the hell his name is a a half-penguin half-man schizophrenic.

And you've got the occasional dumba**es who drop by.

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Usually?

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AJH,

Brilliant mate, the bit about red man wanting a new manager made me really laugh! We definitely are a dysfunctional family but we all want the same thing, success for united.

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GCU

Shappy did a big post that ended on the other post page, but you won't like it.

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Trev

Did Shahram tell you about his yacht and "business" trips with pretty women? I won't "bet" against him not telling you that ;-). Talking of betting, Shahram, what are the odds of Wayne Rooney staying at Manchester till he retires, breaks SBC's record, is club captain, earns 600,000 pw by the time he calls it a day?

Deeps.

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Deeps

Slim to none mate LOL, don't go wasting money on that one.

Red Man

I read it and have no issues with it, but don't agree with it.

BTW trev forgot to tell you about Red Man.

Redman hates everything about moyes and his posting frequency increases with every bad result. He is like the grim reaper and has a few friends who join in on their broom sticks.

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GCU Is the guy that loves Moyes too much and don't see anything wrong about his actions.

Me, I don't he's good enough and always argue with GCU. LOL

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I would just like to add to mine, I wanted to have 'more' of cabayes babies. But he left me for that bit*h in Paris :, (


Oh I don't want to talk about it.

Moyes it's your fault ;)

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Nick86

I knew I could get you to come out :) where is the broomstick LOL.

On a serious note, I actually think he has made quite a few mistakes but also believe he needs to be granted some time. Personally I have not rated this team for a few years, champions or not and that is why I not blaming the manager for all our shortcomings.

I will join you if by christmas next year we are being served the same stuff as the onus is on him to fix some of it this summer and provide everyone with comfort that he is taking us forward and rebuilding a great team.

Jono

I agree we should have bought Cabaye and no questions asked.

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04 Feb 2014 17:13:19
Who else agrees that we should have bought James Mccarthy in the summer? I always thought he was a top player and now he's proving that at Everton!

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Great player! However he's not incredibly better than we got! I would rather wait for someone like Vidal or Herrera to become available!

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I must admit I've always been an admirer of Mccarthy.
remember reading he was a die hard liverpool fan and we had no chance of signing him (not that we were in for him) then he rocks up at everton?!

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{Ed007's Note - McCarthy is a dyed in the wool Celtic fan. He did go down for a weeks trial with Liverpool when he was 16 but he turned down the move as he didn't feel ready to leave home at the time.}

Trev, call me pedantic, call me anal, but you've peaked too early with the exclamation marks. 4 in your 1st post and 3 in this one leaves you very little room for manoeuvre.

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AJH, your post got me really excited for some reason, I thought it was my birthday ;)

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Cheers for the insight of everyone! I found out a few things about use I didn't know!
Thanks! And look forward to the future banter!

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Haha, didn't even realise I put that many. Cheers for spotting that out AJH

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Syd I read that earlier and didn't get it, it's suddenly just sunk in what you meant with that post, brilliant.

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04 Feb 2014 16:50:48
Okay, so we are busy debating Jose and his qualities. I haven't bothered comparing him with Moyes' because there is - imo- no comparison.
Now I wanted to see Moyes' succeed. Even now, as scathing as I am of the man, I would love to hold my hands up and say I was wrong about him. Unfortunately, I don't think I will be uttering such words any-time soon. Thus I would like for someone to explain to me what qualities - bearing in my Gill stated European and Domestic success as a prerequisite - Moyes' had that made him SAF choice?
I for one think that if Moyes' were English, Welsh or Irish, he wouldn't have got the job. Just my opinion; that's all.

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Fergy played youth football with his dad and is a friend of the family .

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Well he took a relegation battling team and made them consistent top 6 with no money and often having to sell his best players. They achieved some European football under Moyes with 1 CL spot. The "with no money" would be very attractive to the Glazers.

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He didn't force a linesman to retire or receive death threats because of his behaviour. He didn't assault an opposing coach. He didn't call a fellow manager a voyeur. He didn't demean his role by becoming an arrogant surly bit who is never wrong.

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But what did he do

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AJH:

I'm sure Moyes' is a nice bloke; but being nice don't guarantee trophies.

A nice analogy I heard: "You replaced a Rolls Royce with a Volvo estate".

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No a ginger rover metro 1.0 gl (goes lovely) with dodgy sub frame. But great, it's cheap to run and insure but it could also kill you.

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04 Feb 2014 16:45:47
Sydney is beginning to sound a little like Arsene Wenger. He always seemed unable to appreciate to accept his team had actually lost.

Arsenal have 90 pts from their last 38 games. I don't see them folding. Their squad dept is improved and their younger players have matured. They are no longer as constrained financially. They will continue to be a potent force for years to come.

Liverpool, do not have the same depth but they have probably the best strike partnership in the EPL, and possibly the best player. They have a decent midfield, they are quick, and on their day can play with anyone. They were extremely unlucky to stack up 2 losses against Man City and Chelsea.

One need say no more about Chelsea and City. They are stacked with quality and have the funds to invest whenever there is an opportunity to do so. The team I think will fade is Everton, because they really don't have the depth.

So this season, with 14 games to go, 4 of which are difficult ones against Arsenal and Everton away, and Liverpool and City at home, it is hard to see us getting an additional 30 points. And, if we don't show some improvement, 20-25 is more likely. All in all you have to be pretty optimistic to even consider us having a chance at CL qualification. Winning the European Cup seems like the best bet.

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Peashooter not sure about the sydney/wenger comment but agree with the rest. I'm not sure what the future holds though as it looks like city may have issues with ffp dependent on the ruling with regard to related parties. Chelsea look to be ok on ffp front but I would suggest this may impact on them in future years (but probably not for a while as they have lots of assets to cash in. Arsenal appear to be in a good position for the future. Liverpool although it pains me to say it are improving quickly (although if some papers are to be believed then a certain clause may deny them bite in attack if a move to Madrid comes to fruition. Not sure about spurs etc but pretty happy with our position going forward. Not going to mention moyes at moment until I feel he has had a fair crack at the whip.

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Peashooter, there's no doubting Arsenal's quality in their first 11. Unfortunately for them, their squad is not the biggest, or the most experienced in the league.

City and Chelsea have better players, we have a better squad, and Liverpool have more match winners.

Arsenal this season are much like how we were last season, not the best team, but the most consistent.

I do not see Ramsey keeping up his magnificent form, and with his goals drying out, they have to rely more and more on Giroud.

Theo Walcott is probably their most capable goalscorer, and he is out for the season. The goalscoring burden will fall on Giroud, Cazorla and Podolski. Neither of those players are match winners just very capable players. Ozil is not a goalscorer and while Wilshere can help in that department, he is not what they need atm.

Unless the defense stays as impenetrable as it has proven it can be, And the likes of Wilshere and the Ox scoring goals for fun, Arsenal will finish below Chelsea and City.

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Mick
Good post that I would agree with a lot of it .
It will be interesting to see if someone else can step up to the plate and get the goals for arsenal, I think with there style of play and players they have there is definitely goals in the team

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Arsenal and City play the best style of football with the difference being city has the best quartet of forwards in the league.

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04 Feb 2014 16:43:33
Heraring some people on here we need to sell Macheda Anderson Young Nani Ferdinand Vidic Evra Amos Lindegaard Buttner Giggs Kagawa Hernandez that's 13 players to be moved out and a few youth that will never make the cut this should be done over the next two seasons 8 players could come in with youth stepping up as well

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All the players you listed, excluding Evra, are squad players. Moving them on would not affect our starting line up and I don't see more than 2 or 3 of them staying beyond the next 2 windows

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I agree Mick1

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Mick1, that lot aren't good enough for utd so get rid.

people need to forget this idea of squad players because there are so many games, every player needs to be good enough to come into the team without any reduction in quality

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04 Feb 2014 16:20:50
Ed has William Carvalho signed a new deal in January?

I remember people quoting his price as 8-10 million in January as his contract was about to end.
But now I'm reading figures like 35-37 million.

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{Ed007's Note - He signed a new deal last summer which runs to 2018 and has a reported £37 million buyout clause.}

04 Feb 2014 16:07:29
So, away from the Moyes drama and awful performance so far this season, apparently this years preseason tour will be in the states and will be part of the international champions cup, which I think is great. I watched a bit of the tournament last. and I thought it was pretty competitive. Atleast then we can tell exactly where the team is before the start of the ssn. last years preseason was awful, this summer is going to be better, with the world cup then the tournament.

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04 Feb 2014 15:18:27
I love this site, and I also love the differing opinions on what has gone wrong this season, all feasible honest opinions, I myself have my reasons as to why we are in the position we are, but! the bottom line is David Moyes is the manager of Manchester United and as such will get my full support, ok this squad won the premiership last season, that is history, City, Chelsea, Arsenal, and Liverpool, are better than they were last season! we have several players, some by virtue of age, some by lack of the talent needed at this level, who need to be moved on, Sir Alex Ferguson did an unbelievable job for this club and now he has gone, David Moyes I feel was very brave to take the job and I applaud him for that, he has identified what the team needs to challenge again and I am sure will address this in the summer, judge the man on his signings not on his inheritance! as for the so called report that several players want to leave, let them! in two days time we will be remembering lads who were honoured and proud to wear the shirt, I may be old fashioned but is it not still an honour and privilege to play for Manchester United!

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Very good post all sounds good to me

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Very good post cheetham. We would love Moyes to succeed and of course some of us have different opinions. But as long as we can get this club where it belongs and the team playing attractive, exciting football, then we will all be happy!
You are right if there are any over here who are not fully committed, then the door is open. The club has to get people who are willing to give all for the cause, this applies from the dinner lady to the players and manager.

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We have not stagnated whilst everyone else have improved Cheetham, we have gotten worse whilst everyone else have improved. I don't care about the other clubs, we are talking about why MU have gotten worse with the exact same players plus Adnan, Fellaini and a fitter Rooney.

I do not think it's physical, I think it's mental. I do not believe the players have adapted well to the manager transition. I believe if SAF or someone like Jose was in charge of us, we would be doing much better. Not because we would have better players, but because the players will be more confident.

I am not saying we should be winning the league, but we should be playing better. Why aren't we playing better?

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Ditto. Good, sensible post, mate.

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Agree with the whole post Cheetham, and you are correct, if a player doesn't want to here then they can go, whether it be Evra, Nani, Rooney, RVP or whoever. If they don't have the fight and desire to get us back where we need to be then they shouldn't be here. I don't think we'd be much better of with Mourinho personally. We may have a couple more points but the football would be as bad. let's face it, for two and a half years the standard we have played has been pretty pathetic, most of the time and only a good overhaul will sort that out.

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04 Feb 2014 14:31:25
Apparently DM cannot play 4-3-3 or 4-5-1 because the players we have in the squad don't fit this formation type i.e. We have a squad built with wingers in it and therefore need to stick rigidly with a 4-4-2 (or 4-4-1-1 if we're to give the benefit of the doubt to some:-)) Now I don't get this logic because I've seen us play centre backs as full backs and wingers as full backs and centre midfielders as centre backs and centre forwards as central midfielders and centre midfielders as wingers and wingers as centre midfielders and full backs as centre backs. so why can't we at least try a different formation?

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Might be a good idea to put that in a letter and send it first class to Moyes. Wonder what the reply will be.
Very funny post though.

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The answer is simple. Where would he play our 'natural' wingers. i.e. Kagawa, Mata, Rooney, Wellbeck and Januzaj?

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" Where would he play our 'natural' wingers. i.e. Kagawa, Mata, Rooney, Wellbeck and Januzaj?"

Easy, in place of our fullbacks Nani, Valencia and Carrick.

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04 Feb 2014 13:28:11
Just looking at the tables and fixtures. Throwing some realistic estimates together we should pick up approx 30 more points. The current top 3 are way out of touch after the Stoke defeat IMO. We have a very slim chance of 4th but this would depend on us being lucky and Liverpool being unlucky. They would need to pick up about 75% of the points we do until end of the season. Unless Suarez gets a knock I can't see it. Everton however are in range in the Euro slot. Now after you have stopped cursing and spitting this is to me key to summer signings and possible departures. Keep an eye on the scousers, red and blue.

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I would rather finish 7th than 5th or 6th. Being in the Europa next season would be a nightmare for us, unless we just used the reserve and youth players', to give them experience.

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04 Feb 2014 12:47:28
Really concerned with those Anderson comments. In several interviews Sir Alex reiterated the importance of the players trusting him.

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Apparently Anderson didn't do the interview and only names nani anyway.

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We have been trying to sell Nani for 3 years now with him knowing so no surprise there.

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GCU

Then why did Moyes give Nani a new 5 year contract?

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Maybe because that would get you some return when you try and sell him rather than zero and letting him run his contract down.

Let me guess you are going to find another flaw there right? because it is not like anyone else in football does contract extensions with an objective to sell later to try and get a better price?

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04 Feb 2014 12:06:00
LOL some happy posters the last 2 days. Syd Anderson has already said he said nothing like what's being reported and even what was reported was pretty tame.

I don't think anyone on here has been more critical of Felaini, or his signing than me, but he's a United player now and will get my support. Not unquestioning support not blind belief that now he's a United player he'll suddenly become world class. I think the same should hold true for DM, I don't understand our formation with the players we have, I am baffled by Fletcher not being our first choice mid atm. We have needed a top CM for years and I don't blame Moyes for us not having one. Our biggest problem this year has been LB we had a chance in January to sign 1, we did not, for that I do blame Moyes.

SAF said we needed 2 or 3 players last summer, most of us agreed, we signed 1. We went into January still desperately needing a CM and a LB we came out with an AMC, great player and I'm happy we got him, not what we needed. Any of you who read my drivel know Vidal is my fav. player at CM, and exactly what we need. Apparently we tried, no clue how hard or what the stumbling block was, for whatever reason he was unavailable. My point is, however good Vidal may or may not be, there comes a time when we have to use plan B or even C. There were world class LB's available and we still came up empty. Both Evra and Buttner are reportedly leaving, so we may need 2 LB's sign the cover now, at least buy someone who can defend.

If we don't sign 4 top players this summer the window will be another failure, unless we have another Janu coming through at LB CM CB or winger/striker. I'll still be travelling down when I can and cheering us on :) even Fellaini.

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"he's a United player now and will get my support. Not unquestioning support not blind belief that now he's a United player he'll suddenly become world class. I think the same should hold true for DM"

I think that's it in a nutshell, mate.

Constructive criticism about the players or the manager, is our right as fans, who pay good money to go and watch our team.

Unfortunately peoples' judgements are clouded by their dislike of certain individuals.

I've always made my dislike for Rooney as an individual known, as Deeps will testify, but when he pulls on the shirt, and is giving his best for the team, then I'll support him.

It's hardly rocket science.

ps. agree with the mistakes Moyes has made and the need for those signings too.

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04 Feb 2014 13:13:35
Can I just ask which left back we should have signed? I agree we need one but who was available? We asked Southampton their price for Shaw, its more than we were prepared to offer, Madrid don't want to let Coentrao go till they sign Moreno. Porto were asking silly prices for players. Who else was left?

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OK Porto's Alex Sandro would be my choice and they want to sell him they want 20m Euros £16.5m quid. Some very well respected pundits on Spanish football suggested Coentrao was indeed available if we offered a similar amount. My choice though is irrelevant any half decent LB would improve what we have, and as I said with Buttner and Evra looking likely to leave, we could sign the back up now.

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04 Feb 2014 11:59:09
give giggs the job, atleast that stops him playing at cm

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Unless he is player manager haha.

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04 Feb 2014 11:50:45
I am not sure if anyone else noticed Jose subtle dig at Moyes' and United yesterday?
He basically said: "unlike other managers' who claim they need 4 or 5 years to build a team, my Chelsea side will be ready next season to challenge the best".

Jose would have had us playing similar to the way he has got Chelsea playing, if we had him here.

What a shame that those who lead the club are so parochial!

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Samthered

Mourinho talks a lot of bs mate. His team hashed 350 pumped in it in less than 3 years mate. Even before he came everyone acknowledged they were a striker or two from being very good. Instead he has piled another 100 million into more midfielders, wingers, defenders and will spend another 80 to 100 Mill this summer.

Let's us spend a couple of windows at their rate and then see how good we are and he is. He could not do it in spain when he had another club who could match his spending and I suspect city will not only match him but also beat him at it. Fergie saw him off last time with half the budget Mourinho spent on players.

If moyes had inherited a team that the previous manager had invested let's say 250 mill of funds and then went on to spend another 100 million under moyes, would anyone accept him saying not this year but next year we should win the league.

He is getting slagged by people for two signings, which we have seen 5 games from one and he has been out injured and the other one has played a total of 1 1/2.

The same people then go on and post that we need to change unto 10 players because they are rubbish but also blame the manager for not being able to get rubbish to perform worldly.

Some of the stuff here is just so bad it should be ignored.

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Gcu
You really have a problem with Jose.

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You cannot help but think his p!ss take of the Chelsea masseur's accent was a dig at Moyes too.

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Haha, Sydney! I actually never thought about that :)

I wouldn't put anything past that Machiavellian schemer!

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Steviek, as if the team masseur would give a teamtalk. Jose is a clever manager, he is very good at mind games.

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I'm only joking, mate. You only had to see the smirk on his face when he was telling the story, and the repeated, 'seriously', when the journalists questioned him about it, to know he was having them on.

Bet some of the journalists did take him at face value though.

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Jred

I think he is a very clever guy who cows how to manipulate things but also believe he been lucky being in the right place/right time as they say. His managerial genius is over blown due to his inability to deal with things when they go the wrong way. If he is a genius then what is Guardiola because he sure knew how to handle him in La Liga.

To me character is a big part of any senior leadership position and how they deal with setbacks is almost more important than when things go well and he has none when things go wrong.

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Gcu
I think he's a top manager and his record speaks for its self.

I don't judge anyone player or manager on what happens at Madrid, the club is a circus.
I also think Jose will continue to win things and end up one of the most successful managers of all time . He has all ready won titles in 4 different leagues and CL with 3 different teams .

But everyone to there own

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GCU,

I think Jose is like marmite: You either love him or hate him. I personally love the guy. I think he is an outstanding manager and a first class tactician. He knows how to get under opposition managers’ skins to devastating effect, just like the gaffer used to.

IMO, he and Maybe Pepe, were the only candidates available, who could have gotten the best out of our squad.

Alas, we have Dave, Joe, Steve and Phil. FFS!

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Mourinho likes talking and taking the piss out of journalists as steviek rightly said, that's his style.
CGu, you have a downer on mourinho. You might not like his personality etc, but to start talking about him as if he's a useless manager is ridiculous. This guy has won everything there is and done it wherever he's been. He is in a different class from the rest. His record is unbelievable. Him and Moyes are light years apart, and frankly speaking, he's right when he says that it should not take more than a year to build a winning team. By saying he'll have a winning team next year, he is also putting pressure on himself and raising the bar for his players to aspire to. If we start talking about 4/5 years to build a team at United, then that is far too long in my opinion.
Moyes has got a good base here, the gea, Rafael, mata, januzaj, Rooney, RVP, jones, kagawa. Add to that some upon and coming youth in zaha, Powell, lingaard and the manager should have a team that should challenge providing he can buy three world class players and plays the right tactics.
Only time will tell.

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Im sorry gcu but Jose overturned barca in the second season. I can't think of many managers who would do that.

You sound like you believe that if moyes was given the same spending as mourinho he would be as good. Not a chance

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Mourinho is on a different planet to Moyes to such an extent it is embarrassing. Take one look at Jose's win record and compare to Moyes. The defence of Moyes and the decision to appoint Dithering Disastrous Dave has to be defended by attacking Mourinho because the simple comparison shows we chose an inadequate alternative. There were many managers on the list between the genius of Mourinho and DDD.

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Nomid

Jose inherited a Chelsea team that started the process of retooling the entire squad 3 years ago and has had massive money go in already. Players like Hazard, Oscar, Ramirez were not his purchases and he is a lucky boy to have them.

Benitez had them on a huge run with european honors at the end of last season. He has since taking over bought 6 new players at an additional cost of 130 mill and shipped out 2 fringe players. If the same was done at our club no one would want to hear next season and many would also not like his style of football as it is definitely not the beautiful game.

I do take my hat off to him for being able to build teams that defensively very very good and grinding out results.

Jred

whether you judge him by it or not he was a disaster at Madrid mate and quite a bit of it was his own doing. Have I been sleeping as I do not recall him winning 3 Cl trophies with 3 teams?

QJordan

What I can say is no one knows what Moyes would be like with the right financial backing and time and those that are dismissing him are doing it arbitrarily.This is not a DM team and has too many old players and other that are SAF type. DM might prove to be the wrong manager but will only know that in 18 months time.

We have 5 or 6 wingers and 3 genuine midfielders with 2 being average, find me a top team in Europe who is set up this way, it is a joke.

We have too many number 10s, who are too good to be sitting on the bench but difficult to play together.

We have the Rooney issue that has been dragged out all summer and still ongoing and definitely not helping things.

We have an aging defense and the younger lads besides Evans are rubbish when asked to play out from the back, which is a concern.



One thing I do know is unless you are Real Madrid with incredible financial resources, Mourinho does leave most places he has been in a mess, including Chelsea last time around.

He is not designed for us and neither are we right for him and I understand what Sir bobby was talking about as far back as 2012 when he said he is not right for United.

Short term winning at any cost has long terms issue that come with it.

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Red Man

The simple issue is you hate the idea of David Moyes as our manager and your frequency of posts go up after each bad result and you stay the same thing.

Oh wait we have had this conversation before :)

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Gcu
Yer that should of been 2 Cl.
In fact it should of been in the last 10 years including an eight-month sabbatical in 2007–08, Mourinho has led his club to win its domestic league seven times, the UEFA Champions League twice and the UEFA Cup once. Between 2003 and 2012, Mourinho did not go a single calendar year without winning at least one trophy.
Porto (2002–2004)
Primeira Liga (2): 2002–03, 2003–04
Taça de Portugal (1): 2002–03
Supertaça Cândido de Oliveira (1): 2003
UEFA Champions League (1): 2003–04
UEFA Cup (1): 2002–03
Chelsea (2004–2007)
Premier League (2): 2004–05, 2005–06
FA Cup (1): 2006–07
Football League Cup (2): 2004–05, 2006–07
FA Community Shield (1): 2005
Internazionale (2008–2010)
Serie A (2): 2008–09, 2009–10
Coppa Italia (1): 2009–10
Supercoppa Italiana (1): 2008
UEFA Champions League (1): 2009–10
Real Madrid (2010–2013)
La Liga (1): 2011–12
Copa del Rey (1): 2010–11
Supercopa de España (1): 2012

Awful manager

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GCU

Problem is you do just the same in the opposite direction. However I don't get personal about others to further my argument nor am I trying to achieve an objective, but we have also had that conversation before

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Red Man

Yes we have and you are are a wolf in she eps clothing. I generally post whether we win or lose and you are way too old, guy and wrong sex to get personal with.

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Oops that did not come our right I meant too old, wrong sex to get personal with LOL

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04 Feb 2014 11:33:14
Jred they do need players in them positions but why can't you see the players we have got, there are players that should be beating the likes of stoke.
They should even be beating spurs and Liverpool. They are a top 4 set but there not playing that way hence all the arguments about tactics.
I'd rather we got top 4 playing good football and making the correct substitutions than rather painfully watch someone ruining a hand full of new signings that come in and bore every1 to death.

FZZ

I disagree, I think our back 4 isn't great our cm, and wingers poor to be honest .
Spurs, liverpool, city, Chelsea, arsenal all have a claim to be as good if not better than United.
With our current back 4 and our choices in cm and out wide I wouldn't be confident of beating any of the teams above.
A fully fit rvp, Rooney, and Mata would make a difference but we will continue to struggling with this back 4 and midfield .
For me it looks like age is catching up with the squad and if I'm honest I wrote this season off as early as October.

And before people role out the " we won the league last year" I don't believe we would of won the league last year with city and co playing as well as they have this year.

With a fully fit squad we could make top 4 but so could all the teams mentioned above, I don't believe we could win the league this year with this squad.

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Funny our back 4 being rubbish this year when after 24 games last year we'd conceded a goal more than now!

Difference is we've scored 20 goals less than this point last season. No creativity in CM and poor wingers plus RvP and Rooney being out are probably the main reasons we're not at least top 4.

Defence does need strengthening but not scoring/creating is our real problem.

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So the older player's aged significantly between May when we won the league and August when the new season kicked off? So in that two and half months they declined. LOL.

So it's nothing to do with SAF retiring and the players are low on confidence then? In 2.5 months the league winning side went from champions to where we are now. It's clearly a mental issue.

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We know that we need to invest in the first team. That was obvious even last season, but it's pretty clear the reason we are struggling this season as opposed to last season is the change of manager. The players clearly have little confidence in the manager and most of them probably expected someone like Jose to take over. I think the players are struggling with injury due to Moyes' ancient fitness strategies and they are struggling with his negative tactics during games. So yes we need to invest in players, but I think the obvious main issue has been the manager change. Saying SAF's biggest achievement with these players was winning the league doesn't make sense. What you are saying is this team can play better under better leadership. In other words this exact same squad with Adnan, Mata & Fellaini could play better, but they are not. This can only mean it's mental, not physical. This team can play much much much better, but they are not. If SAF was still here we wouldn't be having this discussion, this means the reason we are playing poorly is simply because of the change of manager. A great example of a team with and without confidence is Arsenal last season. Up until Christmas they were abysmal, the exact same squad after Christmas up until now are doing much better.

We are in a rut, the players have little confidence in the manager. They are struggling to cope without SAF.

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Not at all syd it's a gradually process and this team has been in decline for a while just fergy and Rvp have papered over the cracks .

If you think our back 4 is good enough and our midfield is good enough fine but let's be honest you are constantly making predictions that are wrong.

When are we going to be top was November, no December defiantly January.
Lol syd you ain't got a clue, I told you we would struggle this, I told you we over archived last year.

For some one who has been so vocal about us going top of the table all season but who has been completely wrong, I'm sure you will understand if I take your judgement of the situation with a pinch of salt . (As always) .

Top of the table we will be lucky to get fourth .

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Syd
So your judging this team completely on us winning the title last year.
In the same way you where convinced arsenal would drop off, not judged on there team but on the fact " they always do"
Or that we would finish 20 points above the scouse not based on players abilities but on the fact " we did last "
We have been disagreeing all year yet United are still seventh liverpool still top arsenal still top .

You might see a title winning team when you look at United, I hope to God moyes doesn't

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Syd.
That's not what I'm saying at all.

I don't think this team is good enough to win this league .
I think arsenal and especially city and Chelsea are better than United.
Fergy knew how to win and last year when other teams had a poor season fergy just marched on . Was pretty to watch tho.

This year city, Chelsea arsenal and liverpool have all improved, the standard has been raised and imo and unfortunately I don't think this United team is good enough to win the league.

Just because we won the league last year doesn't mean we are good enough to win it this year especially when other teams improve.

As for the change in manager, well I think I made my views clear in the summer that all this smooth transition talk was rubbish.

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Arsenal will drop off, like I said by mid March they will be well behind the genuine title contenders (Man City). I do not see Arsenal as genuine title contenders. Like I said month's ago, they will drop off near the end.

I said in September if we win a certain amount of games we could be top by Bonfire night. We never, move on.

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Like I have said (hundreds of times), we need to improve the squad. We needed to improve it last season, that is obvious. So partly our downfall this season is we didn't invest enough in the team during the summer. But it's still the same team that won it last season. Therefore 'CLEARLY' this team is capable of playing better, but they are not.

WHY?

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Was Arsenal's squad good enough to win the league last season?

So why are they good enough to win it this season?

What's changed?

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Syd
Lol as always backtracking and denying everything.
If your going to spend the first 6 month of the season talking rubbish at least stick to it .
Arsenal we talking top 4 and don't get me started on liverpool and when United will be top of the table .

I stick with
Just because we won the league last year doesn't mean we are good enough to win it this year especially when other teams improve.

You have a strange way of judging a team

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"Lol as always backtracking and denying everything.
If your going to spend the first 6 month of the season talking rubbish at least stick to it .
Arsenal we talking top 4 and don't get me started on liverpool and when United will be top of the table ."

In English please.

"I stick with
Just because we won the league last year doesn't mean we are good enough to win it this year especially when other teams improve. "

What has this got to do with anything I have said?

"You have a strange way of judging a team"

I am simply judging "OUR" team, not the teams around us. Forget about the other teams, we should be doing better than this, why aren't we? Simple question for a simple man.

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Syd
We're not playing as well as expected for a number of reasons, but I'm not going to explain them to you as there is little point talking football with you.
As I have said before your old argument that this is top team with top players because we won the title is rubbish imo.

Your last post sums you up very well, you have ignored any valid football arguments I have put forward and instead gone with " in English " and " simple question for a simple man "
This is much more your level you should stick with it and leave the football to the rest of us.

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Jred please post me a list of out right wingers better than valencia in the premier league please. I would like to know who you rate higher.
And please make sure they are wingers.

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I am with Sydney, the team we have should not fall from first to seventh and would not be so poor if we had appointed a top manager who, and this is key, holds the respect of senior players as he would have the experience and medals the players will look up to and realise he absolutely knows what it takes to get to the top. We don't and we are struggling and for me we can keep bringing in top players but if some don't believe in what we are doing we will see an improvement possibly a good improvement but not the top trophies.

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Red Man, Mourinho was considered the interpreter at Barca. Where does that put him?

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What medals did Mourinho have when he started? He was an interpreter when he started, was he not?

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Jred, I notice you haven't answered any of my valid questions above. I have not said this is a top team with top players, I am simply saying this rut we are in isn't anything to do with our squad not being good enough, it's more to do with the player's self belief and confidence. Of course we need to strengthen the squad, but that isn't the reason we are sat in 7th as this exact same side was much better last season. There is more to this than meets the eye.

Red Man, Exactly, there is more than meets the eye. A team doesn't go from 1st to 7th overnight or 2.5 months to be more precise. We certainly need strengthening, we all said that last season and the season before, but I think this rut we are in is mental. The players are suffering mentally. A Championship winning team with Fellaini, Adnan, Mata & a fit and firing Rooney should be playing better.

I think under better leadership, this EXACT same bunch of players would be doing much better.

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Fzz
There lies the problem, there aren't that many out and out wingers out there.
Most teams play with more creative technical players . Most teams play with a fluid front line . Valencia doesn't fit in to that. The days of playing with a winger hugging the touch line imo are outdated.
Our midfield unit is no where near the quality of arsenals Chelsea s or citys, and this is where you control the game and the possession.

I'm sticking with my point that we will continue to struggle with this back 4 and midfield.
I don't think we are as good as the current city, Chelsea or arsenal team.

A fully fit rvp and Rooney will paper over the cracks but take them out and it looks an average team.

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Red man
We wouldn't be doing as bad with last year's rvp, but I still don't think we would be in the top 3, even with a top manager.

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And what a fine interpreter he was I have to say

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StevieK

Well he 'translated' his talent with Porto into trophies and just keeps doing it. If Mourinho wasn't right for us then there were other managers we should have looked at and we shouldn't have got to Moyes on the list. When you find the trophies DD won let me know.

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Ok but you said wingers are poor, so I asked you to name better ones in the league, you said poor like in a way they needed improving.

But yes I do agree, wingers are not the way we should play, hence why the 2 CM we have in carrick and fletch should be passing forwards and breaking up play protecting the back 4, and then let the 3 of mata rooney and januazj create for RVP. Yes the defense is weak, but its good enough to compete for the top 4. Its the tactics that don't get the victories, people are expecting so much money to be pumped into the side and magically turn our fortune round, but you can have the best squad in the world and tactics can ruin you. (see Mancini last season with City) Not worlds best sqaud but up there in europe and didn't win a thing last season.

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Sydney
Honestly what valid question are you talking about?

It's quite oblivious to me after fergy leaving this season was going to be a struggle.
With a fully fit rvp and Rooney I think we would be 4th but I don't think we would top I think Chelsea, city and arsenal are better teams . Even if we did win the league last year.
Also don't forget how well Carrick played last year and how much football he has missed this year.

But even with a fully fit team I would only have us as 4 best in the league.

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Fzz
Poor by our standard which shouldn't be top 4 but should be top of Europe.
You make some good points but I don't think Carrick and Fletcher would work as a 2 but also both have been injured.
Mata has just signed.
Adan is only 18 and shouldn't be over played imo.
Rvp has struggled with injury all season.
Rooney has been injured .

Are our tactics that different to last season.
Even with a fully fit team I don't think we will challenge for the title unless we improve midfield and the back 4.
You may think different but for me if we don't improve the back 4 or midfield we will not beat Chelsea, city and arsenal to the league title, even if we did win the league last year .
For me them 3 have improved and past us

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Was Arsenal a better team than our team last season?. NO!

So how is Arsenal with Oezil, better than MU with Fellaini, Mata & Adnan?. They aren't better, they are just playing better.

It's a fickle sport football. When a team is confident and settled they will play better football. Arsenal when they are not confident and settled were in our position last season.

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I have no doubt in my mind that with SAF in charge we would be challenging for the title. But I think City would win it.

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Red Man, I'm talking about when he started.

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I don't disagree. We won't beat City and Chelsea, but we have beat Arsenal, or do you mean come above?

We do need investment, but I just think that what we have now is well capable of getting top 4 even with injuries. We have so callled international players playing in every position.

The tactics are different, bringing on a sub is a tactic, when Dave brings off players that are playing well and then loses the game due to it then its tactics.
When bringing on Welbeck for Jones the other day and shifting rooney back, it is tactics.

Im not going to go on and on with this, the side needs some (alot of) replacements but also they need to be trained by top top coaches, which they previously had and don't have now, its not just the starting 11 it goes deeper into the management this problem.

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Plus I do agree with don't over use Adnan and Mata yes has just signed, but he will end up liek a busier Kagawa if the formation your talking about doesn't get used.

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StevieK

Yes but have a look at what Mourinho did at the clubs he was manager at before he got to Chelsea he didn't just arrive there as an interpreter, he was already a winner. Research his history. His CV now is so far superior to Moyes it is untrue and have a look at what Gary Neville said about Moyes today.

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Sydney

With or without SAF we would not be challenging for the title mate. This season reminds me of the 2003/2004 season, when we lost 9 league games. We were not very good the previous year even though we won the league and it finally caught up to us and we had our longest dry spell in the pl and took fergie 3 yeas to rebuild.

Funny enough, I also remember some noise back then by people wanting fergie gone believing we needed a change :)

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04 Feb 2014 09:59:05
If Chelsea are a little horse that still needs it's milk, we must be a elderly donkey with three legs :)

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A 3 legged donkey that's about to be put down

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Hillarious.

Glad to see some of us have kept their sense of humor.

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We must surely be a Findus frozen lasagne

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Very good CAM, very good my friend.

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04 Feb 2014 09:52:43
StevieK on Mourinho: "Not because he's not British, or too brash, but because he tried to gouge a fellow professional's eye out. If he did it on the street he would have been arrested. Do you really want someone like that managing the club?"

In a word, yes. I wouldn't care if Mourinho ripped a fellow professional's beating heart out of his chest cavity and ate it on the touchline if that meant we started picking up points and playing more convincing football. Mourinho is a passionate proven winner and probably more similar to SAF than Dithering Dave, the official burden of Manchester United Football Club, will ever be.

On a side note, did anyone catch the Michael Carrick twitter Q&A, some valid points made in an amusing manner.

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Love the imagery :)

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It's only a game.

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Agreed rumple. When fergie was our manager, he wasn't exactly an angel. But he had a desire to win that I see in mourinho more than any other current manager.
Fergie used to rub managers, teams, journalists the wrong way and we used to sit here, admire his ways and laugh at these people.
Mourinho is doing it on Chelsea's behalf and some people don't seem to like it!

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Sorry, NM, when you say Fergie used to rub people up the wrong way, do you mean in a physical way?

Because as far as I'm aware, I don't recall him ever resorting to unlawful, physical violence against a fellow professional? I must have missed that one.

Like I said before, if people are happy to have that type of person running our club, fair enough. But I think it says more about their own set of values, that they'd happily put success for a football team above basic human decency.

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The only thing Mourinho is passionate about is himself and feeding his ego.

He can't take anyone getting the best of him and generally will create havoc before leaving town. Look at Madrid last year and their results in that league with the team he had.

For those of you who can't get enough of him, get a bloody room and put your skirts on:)

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When Chelsea are parading the trophies around we can sit comfortably on our moral high horse and proclaim just how lucky we have been to avoid that awful man being in charge of our club. Sexton offered the same clean image as dithering disastrous dave and when charming Sexton was around Liverpool hoovered up all the trophies

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So you're happy enough with our manager using physical violence then, Red Man.

You'd recommend Mourinho as a good role model for your children? Encourage them to act like that?

Fair enough, but for some reason I expected better from you.

Nothing to do with moral high horses - just basic common decency. Not too high a bar to set I would have thought.

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I'm sorry, but David Moyes' isn't fit to clean Jose training ground boots.

Mourinho is an elite manager; an incredible manager who could end up matching the former boss's trophy cabinet.
We could have had him here, continuting our winning tradition, instead of being the laughing stocks of English and European football.

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StevieK SAF did kic a football boot at Beckham which required stiches. or does this fact not fit your argument?

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And no need for the sarcasm either, Red Man.

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Red Man,

will you get over your infatuation with Mourinho. Chelsea won their biggest 2 trophies without him.

At the rate they have been spending the last 10 years no one come close on and offcourse they will win their fair share of stuff.

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04 Feb 2014 12:56:44
Football is a passionate game. mourinho showed that in the heat of battle and whilst I don't condone a little poke on the eye nor do I think it was the crime of the century. at least it showed spirit which we sadly lack at present. as a side note our own king eric went into the crowd showing off his kung fu skills many moons ago but I think the majority on here felt he was worthy of wearing our shirt.

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Unitedred, as you well know, it's all about intent.

Mourinho quite clearly meant to do what he did.

Ferguson could have kicked that boot another 100 times, and not got anywhere near Beckham.

If you're going to try and pull me up, at least try and think it through first.

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Sam, no-one's arguing about his ability. It's there for all to see.

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And ajs, Eric was rightly punished hard for it.

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StevieK.

"I felt I was being bullied, in public, and being backed into a corner, for no reason other than spite. I was trapped. I swore at him. Something no player, certainly no United player, should ever do to the manager."

What happened next "still doesn't seem real now" Beckham admits.

Sir Alex moved towards him and kicked a boot that was lying on the floor. "At me? At the wall? It could have been anywhere, he was that angry now. I felt a sting over my left eye, where the boot hit me. I put one hand up to it and found myself wiping blood away off my eyebrow."

Unless you were there, you're no better positioned to judge whether there was intent than me. just saying.

Anyway doesn't really matter either way. Let's just get a good win and a good performance under our belt on Sunday;-)

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Stevie
I think Eric's was much worse than Jose's.
Should we of sacked Eric?

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Even Beckham didn't know!

But you're right, I just want to get some football played.

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04 Feb 2014 15:10:57
Steveik I know eric was punished for the kick but utd welcomed him back. mourinho was not charged, not his fault, yet you feel he is not worthy of being a utd manager. sounds hypocritical

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And, the point is, he should have been. It couldn't have been any more blatant. And just because someone isn't charged, doesn't mean they're innocent :)

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04 Feb 2014 17:24:25
The point is not whether he should have been charged or whether he was guilty or innocent. the point is you have presumed him guilty and believe he should never be a utd manager on those grounds. we allowed king eric back even after he was found guilty of a lot worse. are u saying if mourinho had been.found guilty and punished he would be welcome or that as the spanish authorities deemed no case to answer and therefore innocent he is not welcome?

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StevieK, u need to open your eyes! your ability to overlook anything bad fergy did is laughable. Jose is in my opinion the greatest character in football and david moyles isn't fit to put the sugar in his coffee.

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It's not presumed ajs, we all saw it!

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Syd, did you not see it? It was on tv.

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04 Feb 2014 09:17:13
So Anderson has confirmed that there are players at MU who do not want to play under Moyes. Just what some of us have suspected all along and is probably why we are struggling this season. If the players do not feel confident under Moyes, that will show on the pitch. That has shown on the pitch many times this season.

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Simple. Get rid of them then, Syd.

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Syd, I have seen some of Andersons comments, but haven't seen it in full. What I have see, he basically said there are other players that want to leave. That is mot the same as not wanting to play under Moyes. Looks to me like press deliberately misinterpreting his comments to get a better story. But like I said, I haven't seen the whole transcript of he interview so I may be wrong.

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Generally you leave or want to leave because you do not want to be there. This does not require a Doctoral degree in Mathematics to work out.

Everything on and off the field points to a complete breakdown in confidence in Moyes. And for good reason, because he does not know what to do next, as he says himself.

This is the right time to get rid of him enabling an interim successor a shot at 4th place and the opportunity to recruit from a pool of players in the summer who do not want to be associated with a farce where the laughter rises a notch every day.

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Anderson posted on his Instagram account: "I'm shocked and surprised with a supposed interview that never existed.

"I never gave any interview, much less to say bad things about a club that I love, a club where I grew up and that gave me so much. Shame on you!

"I'm like a fan and love the club.

"Goodnight Manchester."

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He's posted on instagram that those quotes allegedly from him weren't real, and that he wasn't interviewed at all by anyone. Fact remains that we will see an exodus of players soon

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I am sure there are many disaffected players in the dressing room right now - it shows in their performances. For some it will just be a case of you can't teach an old dog new tricks and they will be leaving anyway. For the younger members of the squad who feel that way, and, while taking the very hefty pay checks still don't have enough pride to play for the shirt, I say good riddance. They are not Manchester United players. Most of them will end up at mediocre clubs on less money.

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He has now said there was never an interview and he has never said those things.

The reality is who cares if it is true or not as it is a pay for performance industry, get rid of those who don't perform even those who try hard but not good enough.

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Betty, you could well be right.

Stevie, what if they are important players? Hopefully they are not. If I was a guessing man (which I am), I would say Ferdinand is one of those players and Nani. We know Kagawa and Hernandez aren't particularly happy. Vidic doesn't want to re-sign. Hopefully they are the players that will be leaving anyway.

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We might have to get rid of half the team then. Yeah, that seems wise doesn't it?

Get rid of the problem and everyone will be happy.

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Yeah, I'd go along with those one's Syd, though I saw the original transcript of the interview, and I have my doubts about it's veracity.

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I have since seen Anderson's new statement. Whether he said it or not there is still clear issues there for all to see. It seems like a MU clean-up to me. After all he is still a MU player.

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04 Feb 2014 09:04:22
With Nani, Vidic, Ferdinand, Giggs, Young, Hernandez, Kagawa and Evra off the payroll, it would reduce it by 740m a year. That's an awful lot of money going out on a group of players whose contribution to the team has been minimal. I feel sure we will be able to induce 5 top class players to join us for those sort of wages, and we should still have money left over to cover the amortization of the transfer fees. Chosen well that's probably as many as we would need to be contenders again.

The first team would be permed from Rooney, Mata, Van Persie, Rafael, De Gea, Jones, Smalling, Evans, Janusaj, Zaha, and the five new faces, with Valencia, Welbeck, Cleverley, Powell and Lingard as squad players.

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So those players are earning an average of £1.77m per week? Think you may have messed up your working somewhere along the line, buddy.

Assuming the average wage of the players you list is around £80k (which is probably still a little high) - their wages would come to around £33.3m per annum. That's over a £700m difference!

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Oops. Thanks for pointing that out. I suppose I shouldn't start bandying numbers around at 4 in the morning (here in the US). The weeks drift into years and before you know it.

Anyway, according to the website I got this info from, the total would be 740k per week for all of them. It kind of screws up the amortization theory but as far as the wage bill is concerned it should still allow plenty room for 5 top class players earning in the region of 150k per week. The signings might add 40-60m to amortization costs every year, but that would be well covered by the additional income from (hopefully) being assured of Champions League football, new merchandise sales, and a higher profile for sponsorship continuation and growth.

Does that sound more on the money?

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Wait till you see the new Nike contract :) We don't need to take wages off the books to afford top players but will naturally happen as few are retiring and few will not be renewed or extended unless they take a big cut.

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That sound you can hear is Ed002 repeatedly banging her head against the table.

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04 Feb 2014 06:54:27
I don't understand why it's so difficult to rebuild a squad. I know how to do, why doesn't Moyes?

Easy, sell Rooney, Young, Nani and Anderson for 45 million.

Buy Vidal ( or Witsel if we don't have money ), Gundogan, Kroos, Coentrao, Mangala and Draxler for 160-180 million.

Play 4-3-3 with De Gea, Rafael, Mangala, Jones, Coentrao, Vidal, Kroos, Gundogan, Mata, Draxler, RVP, win champions league, then buy Ronaldo back.

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Too Much Football Manager I thinks

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Mick,

I am assuming this is a joke, but by looking at some of your posts this is actually what you want to happen!

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Mick, sums up the thought process of so many on here perfectly :)

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Stevie k having another dig at everyone who doesn't agree with his philosophy!
So what would you like to do SK? Sit here and do nothing? Could you please, without criticising peoples characters or any silly sarcasm, please tell us what your thoughts are on Moyes tactics, where united are heading, preferred players coming in, preferred players going out, expectations for the next 2-3 seasons.
Maybe if you can shed some light on the above, then we might learn more about your views on United.

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Nm, don't be so flippin precious.

Obviously this sort of comment hits a nerve with you. I have no idea why.

Mick was also having a dig at the football manager mindset, but going by your reply in my Pellegrini post, I take it you didn't pick up on that.

And do we really want to have to argue about people getting digs in at each other. Quite a few of your posts over the last while, when you're sucking up to the Moyes Out posters, have been quite dismissive about those who disagree with you.

Once again though, I'm really, really, really, sorry for being sarcastic.

No. I mean reeeeaaaaalllllly sorry.

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And what do you want me to do NM, apart from 'sit here and do nothing'.

It's a website - you can't change anything here!

You can make up all the little lists of fantasy players that you like, and stamp your feet when they don't come, but none of the Utd bosses read this, so keep dreaming.

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StevieK
U mock OP and yet isn't moyes trying to do the same thing, is he playing FM too

We r trying to sign Vidal, have interest in Kroos, did try to sign coentrao, will try for a CB.

And trying to sell nani and young, anderson will be sold if fiorentina want him.

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Common_sense moyes

I wasn't mocking the OP. I was agreeing with him, as I assumed he was being sarcastic about the ease with which this all can be achieved. If I'm wrong, Mick, I apologise.

But the winning the champions league and buying Ronaldo back were a bit of a giveaway I thought.

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Stevie, no worries. I did not keep in mind that some people are not really familiar with the concept of sarcasm.

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04 Feb 2014 01:41:05
Quite sad that Pellegrini has to resort to a tired old excuse like losing a player to injury, as a reason for losing tonight.

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So you think Aguero and Nasri wouldn't have made the difference for them?

But I agree, he has the most expensive squad in the league and strength in depth in all positions, he should stop crying. What would he say if he had the injuries Moyes has had to face, with this squad.

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City were playing Chelsea under the brilliance of Mourinho not the all powerful Stoke, Swansea, West Brom etc that our excuse of a Manager loses to. Fairly straightforward.

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If city had fernandinho nasri and aguero I think they would have ran riot. Demichellis in midfield was awful and that's where Chelsea won the game. Although hats off to mourinho he's done it again.

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Red Man, excuses are excuses. It doesn't matter who the opposition are.

It's just refreshing to see that even the greats like Pellegrini have to resort to them, even with a much better and deeper squad than ours.

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And Red Man, we too, played the brilliance of Mourinho at home - remember when he came to OT without a striker in his team?

I can just imagine your reaction if Moyes played a top side without a striker. Dear me.

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Couple of bites there stevie lol reel them in mate :-)

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Wouldn't you hate to have a manager who blames bad results on injuries and bad luck OH wait a minute

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It's a well known fact in any walk of life, Chris, that those who take themselves, and their views, too seriously, are always the easiest to wind up.

Well. Them and the thick ones.

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And Moyes haven't been giving us excuses about Rooney and rvp being out?

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You were very wound up yesterday StevieK. So which one are you? Too serious or thick?:-)

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NM, point proven.

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Unitedred, I wasn't referring to anyone in particular on this thread, but people in life in general. But if the cap fits :)

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SteveK

I thought you knew if the village person played with 11 defenders and never passed the halfway line, he is a brilliant strategist and a visionary, when moyes does it he is a person, negative, and dithering Dave. Every substitution is and every line up is wrong even before we play:)

How could a person like him last this long and fully employed in the pl without the fuss and and the drama that some of the other managers have :)

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And Unitedred, it was all typed with a little grin on my face.

It's all just a bit of fun, isn't it?

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Don't judge a manager on one game, judge him at the end of the season

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I saw Pellegrini's interview and he was not using an excuse but stating the fact and is a very level headed guy and not easy to ruffle.

Also stated the obvious that Chelsea have very strong squad and have spend just as much and even more in the last 10 years and in a game of very evenly matched up sides the difference is who he had out.

Nomid

Our problem is when RVP and Rooney are out it is hard to see who can actually win the game for us and as it happens we finally get them back and our defenders start falling apart like China, unbelievable:)

BTW guys I had my best ever weekend bets even though I lost on united but won my chelsea bet LOL.

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GCU, it's the easiest job in the world to sit and snipe and criticise from the sidelines.

Would you walk up to a surgeon in an operating theatre, and say, 'here, mate, you're not doing that right. Let me show you how to do it, I've been watching Grey's Anatomy'?

Of course you wouldn't, but because people watch a bit of footie on the telly, they suddenly think they're highly qualified to run a Premiership team.

Some even think they could run the England cricket team, too!

Must be quite a few out-of-work managers on here.

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Jred, I think it's a perfectly valid reason he gave.

My point was that some people on here who like Pellegrini, don't afford Moyes that same luxury.

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04 Feb 2014 01:11:54
I am sick and tired of United fans constantly looking for something to blame other than the under-performing players. Moyes is getting too much stick for something which is not ENTIRELY his fault. Retrospectively if you step back and actually look at the Man United squad you can see it is not that strong a squad, now before people hit back at me and say "but its a title winning squad" that was because it was managed by SAF who was the best manager of all time and he easily added 10 points to us every season. The real question is not how Moyes is failing or his inability to win games, but more to do with the desire of the players to maintain that winning mentality under the new manager.

This next point is extremely important - I honestly believe that had SAF not retired and was still in charge of this very same squad this season, then United would not be in a much better (if at all) position than what they are now. The funny thing is if that was the case people would be asking for SAF to retire by claiming that he had 'lost it' and should no longer manage this team and those fans would be begging for a new manager.

Anyway back to the point, Moyes has been extremely unlucky in a lot of games this season with deflected goals, bad decisions and unlucky spells in games which United could arguably have won. I believe that once the underperforming players such as Nani, Young, Smalling, Valencia and Cleverly have been shifted out of the club and replaced with top class players then the results will come. Just imagine Mata, RVP, Rooney and Januzaj up top with a strong minded, box to box, hard tackling, hard working midfielder in behind them to win the ball and get them into the game. And imagine all this with a solid back 4 that will not only stop leaking goals but also get the front 4 involved more. De Gea is already a world class keeper. So overall I believe that had United brought in a world class CB, CM and LB over the previous 2 transfer windows then we would be doing a lot better because at the end of the day its not our attackers that are the problem, its the wingers and defenders that need sorting and sorting quickly. Although Moyes can be partially to blame with the lack of signings in the summer, he can't be blamed for the January window being a shambles. How can United fans not understand that it is hard to buy people in January because no one wants to sell their best players? Some fans literally think "We are Manchester United let's go and buy Fabregas who has been an integral part of the Barcelona team this year and get him to join us because its that easy".

Anyway overall I believe that fans should stop bashing Moyes because that's an easy option. The fans need to realise that Moyes WAS the best option to succeed SAF at Man United and that the players should get more stick than him. Anyway I will finish on this.

GIVE MOYES 2 YEARS TO REBUILD AND IF AFTER THAT TIME WE ARE STILL DEGRADING, THEN WE SHOULD CONSIDER SACKING HIM, BUT NOT UNTIL THEN.

GET BEHIND MOYES

GGMU!

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You're sweet.

The same under performing players you keep mentioning won the league last season. We have a top 4 squad, not a title winning one. Liverpool, Arsenal, and even Tottenham's squad are dwarfed by ours.

The problem is, the club was built from scratch by Ferguson. Everything, from the U9s to the first team are what Ferguson made them. Moyes still doesn't know how to function in the club.

But some of his decisions so far have been unacceptable. Pellegrini came to City and within a short while he had Fernandinho, Negredo, Navas and Jovetic lined up.

Moyes came here and failed to get Strootman, who is now proving a fantastic young player for Roma. He also failed to get De Rossi and Garay. Not to mention he was hell bent on adding baines, despite there being much better options out there, that we failed to get ( Coentrao ffs ).

And while Axel Witsel was in Russia begging to be taken off Zenit's books, we added Fellaini, a player not even half as talented as Witsel, for a not much less expensive fee.
Don't get me started on Herrera, who has been breathtaking in the last couple of month. 30 million for him is nothing compared to what we paid for Fellaini.

He holds part of the blame for our summer transactions since he failed to identify decent, realistic targets.

Now let's get to the tactics. We play a flat 4-4-1-1 in most games, Valencia is as disappointing as he was last season, and yet he still gets more game time than superior talents in kagawa and Januzaj because he offers defensive stability.

We played with Vidic and Ferdinand for 5 games running, and we were massacred because of it.

Kagawa still plays as a left winger, and is not given the freedom Mata got on the right against Stoke. He has to cover for Evra, and that is a tough job for anyone.

Nani got a new contract and has yet to play a game, he's hell bent on playing to Rooney's strengths despite it affecting the whole team ( both in terms of morale and tactics ) and sucking his balls to sign a new contract. What kinda message does that send to the other players?

We have Rooney, Van Persie, Chicharito and Welbeck in forward positions, none of them being a physically dominant player, and yet we attempt more crosses than Stoke. Stoke! Who have Peter Crouch as a striker, the team that defeated us a couple of days ago.

he bought one of the best attacking midfielders in the world, and played him on the right to fit Rooney. He failed to get anything out of Zaha and didn't give him a chance, let him rot on the bench instead of sending him out on loan.

Did I mention he sanctioned Fellaini, with Axel Witsel issuing a come and get me plea?

And let's get back to the back room staff. He made Phil Neville his first team coach. The same phil neville that just retired and has 0 managerial experience, getting rid of one of the best coaches in the world?

And last but not least, he sanctioned fellaini.

Now noticing all those mistakes does not make me a glory hunter or doesn't mean I don't support the team. it just means that Moyes has done more mistakes in his 7 months than Di Matteo has at Chelsea, and guess who got fired? Well it wasn't Moyes.

I don't want Moyes to be a failure, but he hasn't done a good job. Nothing has improved under his reign and was it any other club, any other, Moyes would have been sacked already.

If he doesn't improve his tactics and team selections, and we keep playing like we are, I see no reason other than the Manchester United pride that would stop us from firing him.

We're manchester United, we do things differently, we stand by our manager no matter what and similar crap. And that might just prove to be our downfall. There is a difference between support and blind faith, and I sincerely hope we don't cross the line that separates them.

Rant over

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@Mick1

You are correct, we have a top 4 squad, not a title winning one. It was a combination of Sir Alex, having all our best players fit and the opposition being poor that made it into a title winning squad.

Pelligrini did not line up the signings. They were already sanctioned before he came. You really need to look at how their club functions.

Strootman would have been papering over the cracks. He DID try to sign De Rossi. Now its not his fault if the club can't get the deal done. Do you think managers negotiate transfers? Baines is better than Coentrao. Coentrao was made available only towards the end of the summer. He was otherwise being included in the deal for Bale.

Moyes tried for Herrera, the club again, not getting it done. How many times did this happen under Sir Alex in the last few years? Hazard, Moura, Sneijder etc. etc. This is not Moyes specific, rather Manchester United specific.

He identified Fabregas, Herrera, De Rossi, Khedira, Baines, Fellaini as targets. All decent and realistic if you ask me.

We play a 4-4-1-1 because the squad has been built by Sir Alex to suit that formation. We do not have the players to change tactics.

Kagawa has been poor, I am sorry. He is not better than Rooney or Mata to be played in the hole.

Nani got a new contract to protect his value, nothing more. Moyes has hardly played him.

Hell bent to playing to Rooney's strengths? When RVP is out he is our best player. We NEED to play to Rooney's strengths when RVP is out. Sir Alex did the same in 2010 funnily enough. So Rooney should have been let go during the summer to Chelsea? The "message" it sends it we keep our best players, not sell them.

Rooney and Van Persie are excellent headers of the ball. Chicharito is good at running onto crosses and is a decent header of the ball too. Problem is not with having crossing as a tactic, but the poor quality of the crosses. Nani, Valencia, Young have all been terrible at crossing. Smalling, Jones, Evra as full backs haven't put in top crosses either. We cannot play the fast interchanging game with this squad, we NEED to rely on crossing.

So you suggest Moyes shoves Rooney on the wing and plays Mata through the middle? Mata is a new player and it will take time to adjust for him. let's give it a few games shall we? You do agree that we need our best players in Rooney, RVP, Mata, JAnuzaj on the pitch at the same time don't you?

Witsel did not issue a "come and get me plea". Fellaini has hardly played.

He tried to keep Rene, both him and Rene have confirmed that. Its clear that Rene had much bigger ambitions as you can see now. Or are you getting teary eyed about Phelan? Its time to let it go man, this argument is flawed.

United did not bring in Moyes as a quick fix, but to do this immense rebuilding job that is at hand. To shove out the deadwood and bring in new players. It wasn't a 6 month appointment.

Yes, nothing has improved under Moyes. Players have been injured, the club have only been able to bring two targets in two windows and we are seeing what we have already known. This isn't a title winning squad but only Sir Alex made it that. Its top 4 at best.

What difference do you think sacking Moyes and bringing in a new manager is going to do? The players are suddenly going to believe in this new guy?

We need to wait 18 months, let Moyes bring his own players, if he fails even then, then let him go. Not in 6 months' time. The club understand that, I hope some supporters did too.

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OK I agree with you that Moyes has been poor for you this season compared with the way that Martinez has started at Everton. But don't forget that it was SAF who "chose" him illegally as there was never an official approach made to Bill Kenwright and Moyes was under contract at the time.
My main point is this however. Will the Utd fans eventually turn on SAF who appears to have sanctioned the change of manager all on his own or will his 27 year record protect him?

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Joefletch

Indoctrination with people not allowed to question the leader that we must follow at all coats without dissent. This is not a cult this is a football club and an ailing one because we appointed a man without sufficient experience. No amount of brow beating is going to make people see the square peg bring right for the round hole. I am yet to see a convincing argument for giving dithering disastrous Dave one more day. The only argument is we must stand by our manager because SAF said so, like a bunch of sheep. When someone comes up with an argument that shows a decent reason then we can discuss but the problem is dithering disastrous dave doesn't have any winning record. Perhaps those at the match who now intimidate the non believers physically to follow DD, as has been going on, should be proud of their loyalty to DD or perhaps they lost the ability to think and the Sexton years were too long ago to remember.

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04 Feb 2014 07:43:10
Did I hit a nerve there Betty, it is a banter site after all isn't it.
Pea shooter get back in your play pen before you hurt yourself trying to hold onto Betty legs.
Focl

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We have issues at Cb, lb and Rb. Cm is no where near the required standard and our wingers have been poor for 18 month +.
I struggle to see how people rate this team so highly.

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Red Man, we know you have this fixation with comparing Moyes to Dave Sexton, but Dave had 4 years before he was sacked.

Moyes won't get anywhere near that if things carry on like this, and I wouldn't expect him to. But I would expect him to be given more than 8 months.

Nice to see you now turning on the guys who turn up week in, week out.

Backing a new manager is not being a sheep, it's called giving him support through a difficult time, and should be a pre-requisite for any fan, no matter there private misgivings, at least until the manager has had time to show that he cannot do the job with his own team.

I can't stand Mourinho personally, and wouldn't want him anywhere near the place, but if he got the job, he'd get my support. End of. If he got particular things wrong, he'd be criticised as is every fan's right, but I wouldn't let my personal antipathy towards him, cloud every single post I made.

Valid criticisms is one thing - many on here are able to articulate that view perfectly well - but constant sniping from the comfort of the keyboard, and the smug, petty little personal insults, just because the club didn't pick your choice, is just pointless and childish, and simply reflects your own personal prejudices you've had against him from the start. You were never going to be happy with giving this particular man a chance, no matter what he did.

If you were able to lecture SAF on how to do his job, then what chance would Moyes have? SAF proved you wrong, maybe Moyes will too given a bit of time.

If you feel so strongly about our ailing club, then get outside OT on match days and start protesting, instead of getting up early to moan about it on a website.

I was reading some of the Newcastle websites, and they're all congratulating themselves on getting rid of Kinnear, saying it shows what fan power can achieve, by getting out and protesting. Fans who felt strongly enough to leave the comfort of their 4 walls and actually do something constructive

There you go, show everyone your deep, deep concern for the club, and get out protesting. Effect change!

Or are you like KLOOT and the Glazers, just all talk?

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Jred

I agree and people sprouting constantly that it is the managers fault just want to see it that way.

Bring Guardiola, Klop and they will struggle mightily with this lot. The team is old and many seem to have gone off at the same time which affects our play.

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@ Red Man & mick1, Amen well said.

Jred they do need players in them positions but why can't you see the players we have got, there are players that should be beating the likes of stoke.
They should even be beating spurs and Liverpool. They are a top 4 set but there not playing that way hence all the arguments about tactics.
I'd rather we got top 4 playing good football and making the correct substitutions than rather painfully watch someone ruining a hand full of new signings that come in and bore every1 to death.

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FZZ, neither Chelsea or Man City were able to beat Stoke away from home, despite their wealth of talent, and their fancy foreign coaches.

All the teams in this league are capable of taking points off the top clubs.

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Agreed Red Man. If someone is not up to the job, he's not up to the job. No amount of convincing or support is going to turn Moyes into a highly successful, charismatic, master tactician. These people have it inside them from the start. They are WINNERS.
United are running a huge private business where everyone is accountable, money has to be made and spent correctly as much as possible. United don't have a bottomless pit as they are a porivate company and money is fully accountable. For that to happen, they need winners in every dept, non more so than the manager, and he is not a winner.

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Joefletch. It is a good post and u raise good points. However, my worry is, you give Moyes another £150m to spend and give him another 18 months. Then, if he still has done nothing to improve the club standing, if he still hasn't learned how to play the right modern systems, then where do we go from there?
We would have spent over £250 by then on players that a new experienced manager might not want. We will end up with more nani's, Anderson's, Young's.
Moyes will then be sacked and the glazers will not want to spend more and the club goes into further decline. Of course, this might not happen, Moyes might surprise us all. But what has he done with the championship winning team he inherited, to make you feel so optimistic about him. Name me three positive things yoih have seen in his approach that might bode well for the future.

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I don't think red man was turning on the guys next to him so pipe down and stop the confrontational rubbish. He was nearly saying that if he says anything wrong about the manager, then he gets verbally attacked by those around him.
And red man is right, just because fergie said we should support the new manager, it doesn't mean support a failing, incompetent man who seems totally out of his depth. Of course fergie was always going to say that, he chose the "chosen one" and fergie does not like being proven wrong, it doesn't sit well with him.
But we have to loom at the facts, we have lost more games than we did all last season, we have been knocked out of cups by Swansea and Sunderland, we are playing clueless football, manager comes out and tells the squad in public that they're not good enough and he'll be getting better players in, he plays kagawa sparingly, and when he does, he puts him at left wing, he still plays a 40 year old winger in our central midfield, he chooses young and cleverly when they contribute nothing and talented youngsters like zaha, powell and lingaard are loaned out.
So what has moyes got to do to get through that he is not the man, get us relegated?

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Daveyboyboyboyboy


Do you even know how a listed company with a board operates from a corporate governance perspective and checks and balances?

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Would it be too smart a remark to mention that Sunderland also knocked your beloved Mourinho out of the cup?

As for talented youngsters, how many times have you actually seen Zaha, Powell and Lingaard play this season? And I mean up close enough to decide if they're ready for the step up?

I'd wager none. You're going on what other people on here say.

Giggs is playing some games, because our midfield is poor, and has been for years. It's a squad game, and Giggs is part of that squad. He's also been one of our better players in most of the games he's played, so I don't see your point. The squad argument goes for Young and Cleverley too. We can't play the same players every single game.

Kagawa, much as I like him, has not performed when needed, and Moyes doesn't trust him enough yet, like Zaha. The staff obviously see things up close in training, and can make an informed decision on that basis, rather then relying on their memories of a three-year old youtube clip of Kagawa playing at Dortmund.

Hand on heart, much as I like him, I could count on one hand, the number of games Kagawa has influenced.

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@StevieK its not just about losing to stoke, its losing to everyone else aswel in the process. 2 wins out of 8 games in 2014? Its a disgrace. Yes one of the losses we actually won the game and lost on pens, but its still a loss.
Out of 2 cups in 2 weeks (and 3 days).

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Stevie, Zaha and Powell are both very capable of coming off the bench and create something of note. Lingard needs more time.

But sending Powell out on loan was a good idea, and keeping Zaha rotting on the bench was not

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Stevuek

I was referring to people, United fans I know in the ground, who when expressing significant doubts about Moyes then were physically threatened, basically bullying to tow the line.

When did SAF prove me wrong? I supported SAF in the 80's when it was difficult because he had a CV that showed he was a winner, he had the medals in abundance that DD doesn't.

Still waiting for you to provide those positive things Nomidfield asked for that Moyes has done?

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Red Man, I refer you to your posts this time last year.

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Come on StevieK, three positives? Don't deflect give us an answer.

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GCU don't start having a pop at me just because I support a different team (and currently with a more progressive manager) than you. My point was addressed by Red Man and no one else.
SAF approached Moyes on the sly without the common courtesy of seeking permission first from our chairman. He was then instructed (if my memory serves me correctly) not to sign the new contract being put together by EFC because the Utd job was his without it being offered to other parties. In other words I've decided who will take over from me, not the board.
Now back to my original post. Were Utd supporters being duped by Ferguson simply because of his record or should there have been proper consultation with interviews taking place with other candidates being allowed the chance to stake their claim?
Listed companies, corporate governance perspectives is a load of b******s and nowhere near answers a simple question. Are you sheep or not?

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