Manchester United Banter Archive January 04 2015

04 Jan 2015 21:23:34
Ed
My post from earlier seems to have disappeared, did the Gremlins kidnap it or did it turn abusive??

{Ed002's Note - Sorry, I don't know. One post was certainly deleted because someone posted teams to it.}

Ok thank you.

04 Jan 2015 20:42:35
Hi everyone, not posted in a while but have still been reading the site quite a bit.

After having watched the last few games where we have played 3 at the back, I have to say we look average using this formation. Nevertheless, we have ended up on a very good run which is certainly pleasing albeit playing pretty mediocre football. Our tempo has been slow and we look scared to pass the ball forward.

My question is why we are playing 3 at the back with CB's we have available? I think 99% of people on this site agree our CB's aren't good enough defensively but my main concern is how poor they are on the ball. Finding a CB who can actually pass into midfield has to be our main priority this month? I wouldn't even mind if he isn't fantastic defensively as our CB's haven't exactly been brilliant. We just need someone who is going to pass the ball forward to our better players. When we play 3 at the back we end up just having one more player who isn't great with the ball, which slows our tempo, leads to errors and ends up with pressure being built on our team needlessly. I'll be interested to hear everyone's thoughts.

I said yesterday that the logic must be strength in numbers. Is it better to have three weaker center backs to make a unit than it is two?

I personally think we would be better playing more in midfield so we control the game totally. But LVG clearly thinks differently and under criticism, he will probably persist with it.

It looks as though LVG is thinking strength in numbers. However, while it may in theory help to have more players in a weaker position this surely only works when those players are good enough? Smalling, Jones, Evans and McNair's use of the ball in recent games make them look like defenders from 25 years ago. Just hoofing the ball upfield doesn't cut it nowadays at the very top level.

Look at Barcelona, they have players at the back who will keep control of the ball and have the ability to play it into midfield. They control the game this way and subsequently even though they play Mascherano who isn't a CB and Pique or Bartra who in my opinion aren't world class CB's but can get the ball down and pass. They have sacrificed defensive solidity for control of the game and die to this the amount of defending they actually have to do is minimal and they have a brilliant defensive record.

I'm not saying we will be Barca or have to follow their model but we should be controlling the game much better than we are just now.

04 Jan 2015 18:25:20
We made it harder than it should have been but these games away at lower league opposition are often difficult, it is what the cup has always been about. Often lower league teams tire after putting everything in, then you usually see the top team score late and so it happened. The pitch was difficult bobbling around yet the lack of assurance in our passing and awkwardness in our control was worrying, too often we were not concentrating when passing.
In honesty I don't know why we went 3 at the back in the first half, or was it 5, is it because he doesn't trust them? We did play better in the second half with the change of system. Overall, it was a battle and I was disappointed in some refereeing decisions, a rugby tackle received no booking, celebrate a goal gets a booking.
I was also disappointed we didn't see more chances created, but we are not controlling midfield, don't shift the ball well from midfield to attack and appear to lack confidence in keeping the ball moving forward. Instead we seem to take the easy option of passing backwards, almost seems no one wants to take a chance and be the one to give the ball away. LvG will want players who will look forward and are not afraid.
Fletcher was very very poor and a combination of Evans plus McNair at the back is a real worry, too much dithering, McNair would be better given a chance in the reserves to play in the middle of the park because he is now making two to three mistakes a game and Evans needs to be a non playing reserve regularly. We miss someone to drive us forward from the middle of the park and control the game, we miss that commanding figure as much as one at the back. Good goal from Herrera and one we needed.
It is a win, not a great one to watch but a win and we are through, that is all that matters and for those who feel that isn't enough, remember all the knock outs that have happened down the years, that is why it gets televised.

Same performance as 90% of our other games.
All the same issue.

04 Jan 2015 18:46:09
I agree with most of what you say and think you have been level headed considering how poor the 1st half was.
1 thing that tires me is the constant hoofing from the center halves and even there manager picked up on it post match.

This isn't a usual bash LVG comment. But maybe some of the players are that afraid of making a mistake that they prefer to keep it safe, the manager may berate them after the game for making errors and this stifles our creativity as a result. It surely has to be something psychological, to play so cautiously against such poor opposition is not solely down to the formation, what do you think?

Beast

I think the players that think that way will get found out and will amply display they are not good enough, Fletcher is in that category.

I believe a lot comes from the lack of confidence brought about by last seasons mismanagement.

I still believe LvG will move us forward, we shouldn't forget we are adapting to a new style of play. People seem to forget how poor our football was in SAF's first few years, not months, or how poor we were in SAFs last couple of years. The football this year is better than last and at least there seems to be a style this season. For years we have under performed in Europe because we were tactically poor, had a one dimensional set up and couldn't retain possession, now we are in a learning phase and need to have patience.

I believe a lot comes from the lack of confidence brought about by last seasons mismanagement
Redman

So moyes is now getting the blame for this season.
How you can try and compare the united that fergy took over and this team is beyond me .

Jred

SAF took over a club that didn't know how to win, a drinking culture and I remember it well. There was no confidence in the team or club. Moyes isn't getting blamed as you put it but simple fact is during his tenure we went from confident champions to seventh with confidence shot. We are a lot better this year but the comparison is a club with a confidence crisis, lacking belief, which both SAF and LvG inherited and in LvGs case that was caused by the previous incumbent.

Redman
The team that moyes took over was finished imo but that has been covered.
The team that fergy took over and infact the club that fergy took over bears no resemblance .
Its laughable to try and compare .

Beast. Fergie used to berate the pkayers privately all the time. All players have to accept responsibility and step up to the plate. If they can't, then they should not be in a United shirt.

I agree Nomid. Some of the players seem way out of their depth, but I can't help feeling that LVG takes post match analysis to the next level, after all SAF didn't sit scribbling notes for 90 minutes and there have been all the reports about how he destroys players in training for being 1 yard out of position. I can't help feel that this is making our lesser players worse, rabbits in headlights.

They need to be shipped out if they can't handle his style of management, but the list is long and growing if we are basing it on performances!

05 Jan 2015 17:08:04
"We made it harder than it should have been but these games away at lower league opposition are often difficult, it is what the cup has always been about"

Come on Redman, if we'd put that performance in last season against a league 1 team, would this line have been trotted out? Be honest, now.

Noucamp99

Hello StevieK, been a while since our paths crossed.

The difference from last year being we won, we didn't lose at home to Swansea or go out pathetically to a poor Sunderland team in a semi final.

I was at OT in 2005 when we drew with non league Exeter and whilst we did not have a full team out it was pathetic, we put our first team out in the replay and still only won 2 nil, these games against lower league teams are not straightforward.

It was a very ordinary performance yesterday, poor in the first half but we look like we won't lie down like last season, we keep going. We are getting results when not playing well and that was something people used to give SAF a lot of credit for.

05 Jan 2015 18:52:55
I know these games are always potential banana skins - see MK Dons this season - and I'll always take a win. But I agree, painful to watch at times.

Oh and I know we lost to Swansea in the league and MK Dons but there is improvement from last season, presumably you can see that?

05 Jan 2015 19:19:35
I wasn't expecting much in terms of good football, so I'm not really that disappointed to be honest.

I posted after the LVG appointment, that anyone who thought we would be in for a feast of free-flowing, attacking football, would be sorely disappointed.

I could count on one hand the number of times I've thought to myself, yes, that was good to watch.

But it's a work in progress. The results are on the board. There have been injuries, and some of the players have not performed to their abilities, but I'd hate to think that was being used as an excuse this time round.

Nou

LvG wasn't my first choice as I have often said but I recognise given how low confidence was at the club it would take time to turn it around and during that time it may not be pretty.

04 Jan 2015 17:13:50
just tuned in 83ed minute and see we are ahead 1-0. How have we played. Banter please

{Ed004's Note - Rubbish. Better since the formation change}

Awful GCU. Slow, predictable, bad passing, would have swapped the Yeovil defence for our own and the midfield wouldn't be too far behind.

Rooney was poor again, but did have an assist for ADM. He should be upfront.

Second half he went to 4 at the back, but took off Shaw & Rafael so we had the attacking flair of McNair and Blackett as full backs - strange!

Wonder goal by Herrera, fortunate as the pass wasn't for him, but great finish. Then ADM scored on the break last minutes as Yeovil committed men forward for a freekick. One other notable shot by Herrera at the end. Seriously nothing created yet again, Fletcher awful, Wilson anonymous, Falcao as well before coming off.

All round poor display (like Stoke), but at least LVG changed the formation at half time. Yeovil missed a great chance and had one cleared off the line. We probably just shaded it against a team that will be playing in the lowest league next season.

No doubt I'll get abuse for this, but the truth hurts some people. We will probably be on almost last for Match of the Day again, our regular slot this season it seems.

Beast mate, no reason why you should get abuse for that post as its a fair assessment. I think you only get abuse when you go out of your way to manipulate facts into an anti LvG rant. Facts are facts, like those above. I don't think anyone, my self included, would try to argue that we are playing well or even attractive to watch. In my view, you have just highlighted our problem. Very poor individual performances, week after week. I am sure the formation has an influence on that, but any player should be able to pass the ball 10 yards, or shoot straight, or win a tackle etc etc whether we are playing 352, 443 or 811.

Beast. "Rooney was poor again"??????
Have you watched any of our games this season? How can you accuse rooney of being poor AGAIN?
We're obviously watching different player!!
Agreed we looked rubbish till we changed personnel, but to take out your frustration on rooney is ridiculous.

It was a poor performance, and to be honest there aren't many players who covered themselves in glory. Fletcher looked out of his depth and we need to have a serious think about his future. I also suspect that Shaw and Rafael were taken off to counter their height on set pieces. But I'm not sure that making decisions based on defending Yeovil's 'strengths' is what a United manager should be doing.

Biggest concern was that van Gaal brought di Maria on to play up front again. Rooney was slow in midfield and would have been far better used up front after Falcoa came off. You beat teams like Yeovil by moving the ball quickly through the middle. Mata, Herrera and di Maria can do that, but by the end it looked like we had no strikers with Wilson pushed to the right wing.

In the end we got a lucky break for the first, and hit them with an excellent through ball for the second and van Gaal will feel vindicated. Not looking forward to Southampton with the way we're playing at the moment. We were very luck against them a few weeks ago, and we're struggling to make more than a handful of chances in every match these days.

Just read that rafael and shaw are injured again and why they were taken off. Unbelievable if it is true. Something is going on here????

04 Jan 2015 19:10:54
I think Rafa and Shaw were taken off due to just coming back from injury and playing much longer against a hard working, physical team wouldn't have been wise. Unlikely it was to defend against Yeovil's strengths.

Gcu looks like raf has a fractured cheek bone. Nothing anyone could have done about that, and shaws ankle is playing up again.

Will we ever get a break with injuries at the back.

Haha Nomid are you joking? Without fail somebody always takes a tiny part of my post and twists it.

I'm not laying the blame at Rooney's door and yes I have watched every game this season. There have been many games Rooney has not contributed, he was poor against Stoke, hence "poor again". I also said that other players were poor today, in fact all of them were pretty bad. However Rooney is our captain and passing a ball 5 metres should be within his capabilities, he struggles with this, dwelling on the ball often and lost possession a lot today needlessly. He also has very bad positional sense for a CM, he is a striker and is often a liability in midfield against decent opposition - why our defenders hoof it is partly because Rooney is not making himself available for a simple pass out of defence - watch his movement or lack of it next game. When the ball is near him it is a different matter and he is alive, but he doesn't work hard enough off the ball for me.

Surely we should make a move for Coleman if rafael is out again. If shaw is out we a are bit screwed with Young also now being out for a long time.

I expect to see us move Di Maria down the left wing and most likely play a 442 as he is not the best as a defender as a wing back.

This 352 system without the fullbacks is not good with our personnel and I am worried it will cost us points and have the likes of arsenal, spurs, Southampton back in for 3rd and 4th place as I cannot see the easy games that someone mentioned coming after the Southampton game.

04 Jan 2015 14:55:07
Shaw and raf both play and its still 3 at the back

We are playing the might Yeovil jred, he needs to protect our weak defence!

The logic must be that all three of them are rubbish so playing three instead of two at least is more bodies.

I've finally realised we give too much thought to all of this, it simply isn't warranted, I just se Homer Simpson with a monkey banging a drum making the decisions.

All of you saying 3-5-2 is because of how poor we are at the back and lack of options I hope you are prepared to admit you are wrong now. Zero excuse today against a team that have scored 5 goals at home all season, worst record in all 4 divisions. Negativity is here to stay.

Beast, and I bet we still make very hard work of the 'mighty Yeovil', as you put it. I'm not expecting us to win by any !ore than the odd goal or maybe two, if we are lucky.
Not see that you can say you have proved everybody wrong just because he is playing three at the back, either. Nice try though lol.

True for you beast, if that's how he is picking a team against that kind of quality, we should be attacking most teams not inviting them to play against us.

04 Jan 2015 16:23:56
This is Yeovils biggest game of the past 50 years, of course they are going to be up for it and try 110%. Just because they haven't scored many goals doesn't mean they can't score.
Give it a rest and get behind what we currently have, in the future the side at the right opportunity will get strengthened at the back.

The formation is all wrong and the players aren't comfortable with it. Yes there is width, but the width is not high enough up the pitch with threatening enough players. Rafael and Shaw aren't exactly Bale and Ronaldo.

Would it be too much to ask go at least a decent performance at some stage of this season. Yeovil are not even playing well just same old UTD players struggling to pass the ball 5 yards or keep the ball in at least on the pitch. This game proved fletcher should be released asap and Rooney cannot play midfield he's one of the best Fwds in the league but wouldn't get a game in the championship as a midfielder and he'll be knackered on the hour. Falcao is terrible should look more into he's real age he's about 34. 5 months in a Nd shaw looks like the biggest lemon ever bought in football. No matter the result now how can the players walk away from this with anything other than embarrassment again. Lucky the league is so weak this year and DDG having a worldie season. Moyes' sides were never this bad to watch

04 Jan 2015 17:32:07
Oh come on Betty bow down to beasts superior knowledge.

04 Jan 2015 17:34:13
Haha I just read jalmej's post, one of the worst I've ever seen on here, made me chuckle though.

This is how we have played all season GDS2 in the main, its only the calibre of opposition that changes, but our chance creation and entertainment value doesn't. DREADFUL.

Superior Knowledge, hmm, maybe just superior ability to call as a spade a spade, but everyone is entitled to imagine things if they want.

Gds2 so exactly what do u disagree with in my post.

Jaimej, that post has just about convinced me. I have been undecided for week as to whether or not you are genuine.
I thought you might just have been very negative, but the above posts has convinced me you are just a troll. Who do you really support? The scousers, City, Chelski? Whoever it is, you would be better off on their page.

04 Jan 2015 17:54:42
GDS, I am on my knees as I type, lol. No smutty comments please. Ed002 will not approve :)

04 Jan 2015 17:59:36
He said everything jamie

04 Jan 2015 18:14:50
Jalmej,

All of it mate, the bit about moyes team never being this bad made me laugh the most, we weren't even still in the cup this time last year. Beast says A LOT of negative things to the point where it is a bit of a joke, but at least he backs up a lot of what he is saying with the reasons why his opinion is as it is. Your post is just daft, I'm with Betty on this one.

Beast

Entertainment at OT Has been decent on the whole. I think we've struggled more in the away matches . both results and entertainment. This is something that LVG will need to fix over the next 8 months if we are to lift the PL trophy in May 2016. I think we will make it.

Am i in a different planet or have we not gone 12 games undefeated winning 9 of them? Arsenal and Southampton away, liverpool at home. We shouldve beaten spurs.
We have not been pretty but we've been successful at getting results. Is that not what matters first? The performance will cone.

Jamie why do you even bother? U only come here to critique everyone and everything . At least beast tries to be constructive, but to me u are just a troll.

Jesus have you ever heard of getting behind your team?

I bet you are the type of fan who just sits infront of the tv constantly slagging off each player. person

04 Jan 2015 19:19:51
I'm with Nomidfield 100%

Yes we haven't played as well as we'd all like which is pretty obvious but what is most important at the end of the day is the result. The performances will come but hey I suppose it's more entertaining and dramatic to be pessimistic and negative rather than optimistic because LvG has been at the club for years and we've witnessed no change, there is no hope haha.

Charlatan - as you say we have definitely been better at home mate, our possession numbers and control of games has been good. The problem for me is that the possession is not real, its kind of like we are waiting for something to happen and our actual attacking potency which should be immense is virtually non existent.

That said we battered QPR, Newcastle, Hull & Liverpool in terms of score line so you are right, but I have only felt entertained a couple of times this season. Horses for courses though. I just wish the shackles would come off, we are playing in third gear all the time.