Manchester United Banter Archive September 04 2014

04 Sep 2014 21:34:27
I have hated the international breaks with passion but delighted with this one. Gives our guys 2 weeks to get fitter and those that injured should be well on their way back. Can't wait to see how we line up in our next game.

There is story that Vidal has injured his knee if true very sad and unbelievable that Juve would play him in their last game an dallied him to join the national team. Surely the doctors and all the scans would show the knee is not ready.

04 Sep 2014 18:35:56
Oh dear you can almost sense Simon pw foaming at the mouth and with raging snot having to be wiped away whilst he's frantically tapping away on his little keyboard. Have we had any new sayings yet today like "Falcao is the rich man's lambert" or "Di maria is just a white sterling" or "Welbeck just needs the right club as he's the European pele". We've already now had Welbeck compared to Henry ffs. Give it a couple of weeks and hopefully it would have died down. But it's certainly interesting to see other fans and the media reaction to the amount of money we've went and the players brought in for what is a period for our club that I haven't seen since the late 80's slowly but surely we will be back where we should be and I expect big players (and the right ones) to be joining over the next 2 windows. Biggest commercial deals in the world and twice we will smash British record with no money. Is this our downward spiral?

Unlike others I haven't got into player comparisons and like I said I think you'll do ok when your team is settled with each other and the system your playing. How long that takes well that's up to each individual players ability to adapt to their new surroundings and new team mates.
That's your managers problem not mine. I'm quite content with our own squad and start to the season. We are already 3pts up from the corresponding fixtures from last season so alls good.
Any more than a point in our next fixture at home to Villa will see that margin increase again so tbh I'm not concerned how you do.
Utd can only effect us in 2 games this season, same as any other season.
Hopefully you will be playing better by then and give us a decent game eh

04 Sep 2014 16:50:07
Websites are saying that Rojo has been granted his VISA/work permit :) good news

04 Sep 2014 14:12:17
Rojo has been granted his work permit. He will be in Manchester today.

I've not seen anything official yet but I really hope this is correct Sydney! Cheers fella, that's put even more of a smile on my face as I was beginning to think that there might be some serious issues in the way.

He's on his way to Lisbon, then off to Manchester later.

Sydney is spot on and work permit sorted. Ex neighbour of rojo dropped case. Can't say how I know but permit 100% confirmed

04 Sep 2014 16:56:57
bookedred,

Sky?

Nah gds proper itk found out at lunchtime. Not sure if it was on sky at that time as been at work. I've been on this site long enough to know there is enough itk horlicks before so understand the sceptism but only ever posted 2 things as fact before (this being one and the other was about the availability of fellaini/baines (Baines being unavailable unless silly money offered). Can't see any point in posting if I don't know its true as I will look a person.

Lucky boy, maybe Europa League next season for him then ;-)

04 Sep 2014 13:14:14
Can anyone explain why Adnan has not been named to the main squad.

Thanks guys,

He's under 21

04 Sep 2014 14:02:32
his age. He doesn't need to be, freeing space for someone else.

aaallj5

He's under the age of 21. Doesn't need to be named.

04 Sep 2014 14:15:27
homegrown? dunno

Correct me if I'm wrong but homegrown u21's don't have to be named do they?

04 Sep 2014 15:12:16
Homegrown, we dnt believe in that do we at United lol

Shaw, Blackett and Wilson are also in the U21 list and I would expect all 4 of them (jan included) to be with the first team this year.

looking at the actual 24 though who thinks petrucci and Vermijl will still be here and not go out on loan?

03 Sep 2014 15:55:55
Varela to Real Madrid C to play under Zinedine Zidane.


I also read that we have a first option buy back on Tom Lawrence. Is that true Ed?

{Ed002's Note - I have no idea about his contract.}

04 Sep 2014 10:51:51
So much for us turning our backs on our traditions. We have named 24 players in our squad of which 12 of them are home grown players. How many other teams can say half their sqaud is home grown?

This is a really silly post tbh. Most teams could. for eg;
Aston Villa 16
Burnley 19
C Palace 15
Hull 12
Leicester 17
QPR 18
Stoke 12
Southampton 12
Swansea 12
W Ham 13
5 of your registered squad who are homegrown will not likely play much football ie; Vermij, Lingard, Petrucci, Lindegard and Amos. U21 homegrown players don't have to be registered either.

How many of the teams you just listed play regular champions league football?

Simom the lower half teams will always have homegrown players, I think Shappy is talking about the top 4 teams.

04 Sep 2014 13:32:57
Ah Simon, I think Shappy was getting at the fact that of all the 'top teams' we are certainly not the one that are turning our back on traditions. Your post proved that, so well done.

For Liverpool as an example, we have only registered 19 players. 9 of which are homegrown and all 1st team regulars. that's not counting the likes of Sterling and Flanagan who are both homegrown, U21 and regulars and don't need to be registered.

Simonpw, how many people can say they only have 12 non-homegrown players in their squad? Bare in mind three of them were meant to be sold/loaned out this summer (Anderson/Fellaini/Lindegaard). So if LvG had his own way only 10 non-homegrown would be in our squad.

This is on the back of the papers saying we are ruining English football and losing our identity by buying foreign players and selling Cleverley and Welbeck. It proves all of this anti-united media nonsense to be just that, nonsense! The anti-united though MU were dead and buried. They thought we couldn't spend big. It's p1ssed many journalists off.

He never specified what position the teams were in the table and Utd aren't a champions league team to my knowledge. Utd are not a top 4 team yet either.

04 Sep 2014 14:10:50
No one is a top for team yet

Sydney, Liverpool only have 10 non-homegrown players in their squad, I'm not concerned about the press myself tbh. The criticism from ex players and coaches etc is more to be concerned about.
United are in a difficult position as far as I can see. The board will realise that they need to have success on the pitch. Everyone throughout Europe knew this too. This is why you have overpaid for most of your signings and are prepared to pay the wages that you are.
It may work this year, it may not. That depends on how quickly your team gels and if everyone stays fit.
Any key injuries to your squad this year will have a significant effect on your team.
If for some reason, Utd do not reach the top 4 this season, what effect will that have on transfers, wages etc in years to come.
I think these guys personally don't see enough talent coming through the academy at present and as ex players are more worried for the long term effect than the short term gains if that makes sense.
The press will always look for the sensationalist headlines regardless of the team. Its Utd this week, who knows next week.

04 Sep 2014 14:14:45
Simon you are talking as much rubbish as the Everton fella further down, has someone put something in the Merseyside water supply today?

04 Sep 2014 14:17:22
who did you sign the homegrown sterling from Simon?

P.s Sydney, Lindegaard is a home grown player.

Simonpw, Lingard is a homegrown player, Lindegaard is not :)

Ken,
What difference does it make who we signed Sterling from as a kid. What difference does that make to his homegrown status. for eg United home grown players
Carrick-West Ham
Amos-Crewe
Jones-Blackburn
Pereira-PSV
Petrucci-Roma
Rooney-Everton
Smalling-Fulham
Vermijl-Liege
Young-Villa etc
This is just getting silly and straying from the original post

Brendan81,
how is it talking rubbish when the OP asked how many other teams had as many homegrown players as Utd. I gave a list of them as published by the premier league. Some teams haven't used a full compliment of 25 members for their lists either. There's no indication that the teams had to be top teams, in the champions league or in the top 4 from the OP. It was a comparison to Utd to which I gave an answer. It's completely unbiased and a factual answer which can be seen in black and white on the BPL OFFICIAL website.
Why do you guys presume everyone is against you?

Apologies Sydney, you are right. I miss read it.

04 Sep 2014 15:29:21
simonpw,

Your last post was as horrific as the rest of them, maybe just give it up posting on our site and go back to somewhere where everyone will agree with you that United are dead and buried.

I never once said Utd were dead and buried GDS2. Far from it. I think you have signed some fantastic players. I also think you have overpaid for some of them as have we for some of ours.
Its my opinion that you could have an excellent 1st 11 players if Van Gaal can get them to perform together.
It is also my opinion that beyond those 1st 11 your squad is a lot weaker than last years top 4.
It is not biased it's an opinion. I don't come here for someone to agree with me, I just join in for a bit of banter. I try to see things from other peoples point of view ala the ex players and coaches. I don't agree or disagree with all of them but I'd rather hear their input having worked in the club than journo's who are just paid to fill their columns with sensationalism.
I am fascinated to see how all the clubs supporters react to their new signings, their expectations for the new season etc. Its what makes this site what it is.
I don't take it personally and I've got a tough skin so I really don't mind negative replies to my opinions which are my own.

04 Sep 2014 16:53:32
The fact simon is here is proof enough for me we are heading in the right direction lol.

Come on pal u no ure clasping at straws when u start using the whole ''a couple of injuries'' line

Yes we have over paid and tbh it makes a bloody change when we normally under pay for PL mid table players in the hope of turning them into top players.

Quite how u can claim the situation with united is such we have to over pay, where the hell does that leave yous? Markovic - over paid, Lallana-over paid and that's just naming this seasons buys from Brenda, what about illori, Borini etc.

I will agree it dnt matter where u get your homegrown players from, u put the time effort and money into them so as far as i'm concerned there homegrown.

Hi CTR,
I did say we have overpaid for some of our players too tbh lol. I'm not concerned at all and at least if we finish above you this season you can have no excuses as to crap manager, poor team etc which we all heard all last season ha ha. Roll on the next 40 odd games, well at least 36 for you lot lol. I also noticed not a lot of predictions about finishing x amount of points above anyone this year which is quite refreshing. Seems a more even playing field for the top sides for a change.

04 Sep 2014 17:42:49
Simon, yesterday I praised one of your posts. Today i'm thinking 'you know the point snappy was making' surely? We have been vilified rather amusingly for turning our back on youth, even though half our first team squad is homegrown. Ironic, see?

04 Sep 2014 10:10:33
I recommend watching the highlights of Argentina last nyt. Di Maria was outstanding. Rojo was very tidy too. No nonsense defending. Kroos had a little lash at him too. lol

I can't contain my excitement for the future after Ronny bigged us up again and teased with a 'return 1 day statement'.
Now for my spanner in the works. Rooney should be dropped, I'd rather Wilson get a run in the team now. For me Rooney has had chance after chance, was made captain to see if it spurred him on. It hasn't. 1 good game in 5 is not good enough, he was a lot better when he had attitude with fire. Now he looks like a whinger. I'd rather we sent him to Arsenal than Welbeck the way I'm feeling about him now. No way can he justify his wages of late

Amen brother

Rooney dropped for Wilson. priceless! What are you smoking Patzi?

Where did he play wide or threw the middle?

Rooney was very poor for england last night, hodgson would be too embarrassed to drop him for mondays qualifier now he's made him captain.

I would like to see Wilson get a few games this season. I would like to see him partner Rooney, RvP and Falcao upfront this season. It will do him a world of good.

So you want us to play 4 up front Syd?

04 Sep 2014 13:34:26
Interesting John how Sturridge played so well last night and Rooney was so bad yet the scoreline states England 1 (Rooney) - 0 Norway.

Funny that.

Through the middle Stretford. The Norwegian defender found him when he emptied his pockets last night.

GDS2

It is not all about the goals mate otherwise Heskey/Crouch would have been great players
Remember even a broken clock tells the time rightttwice a day

Gds2 i'm not a rooney hater, but so far this season and last night he has been crap, his only contribution last night was taking the penalty.for someone on his wages and captain of club and country its not good enough.

04 Sep 2014 15:31:09
Interesting that when it comes to judging players like Welbeck it is 'all about the goals' but when it comes to judging a player who scores goals it is 'not all about the goals'. Anyone would think there is a hidden agenda to have a go at United players. Oh wait

GDS2

Again with the conspiracy theories mate
I think even the most diehard utd fan will believe that rooney had a stinker last night

04 Sep 2014 17:04:08
John,

I agree mate, Rooney not been brilliant so fat this season by any stretch of the imagination, but he generally goes in spurts of goals so getting his goal last night might get him going. I don't really care about what he earns, that is nothing to do with us and gets brought up way too often.

YNWA,

No conspiracy theory mate, read the papers every day if you want to see people with agenda's against United.

04 Sep 2014 09:46:04
The players that wear the shirt are constantly changing, so they are not the clubs identity. We are a global football club, most supporters don't care where the players come from so long as they bring the following attributes to the team, which lead to the Man Utd identity being secured:

1. Desire to succeed
2. Top Class Performance
3. Entertaining Attacking football
4. Commitment, Club-Player-Supporter, and the other way
5. Respect for the clubs history and prestige

If the players bring these to the club and the owners/management keep these Man Utd traits then we will not lose our identity. Gone are the days where local lads in Leeds play against local lads in Manchester for the league title.

Just like most profitable businesses won't use the local supplier if they can get the same service for cheaper the other side of the world. The world has gotten smaller and as a result in order to compete with the best you have to evolve.

These youth team products are pinched from other youth teams half the time anyway and are from all over the country/world. Even the ones born locally won't necessarily support the club, it's all pie in the sky.

Entertaining football is the major thing - I hope LVG starts to make use of the talent at his disposal now and attacks teams.

04 Sep 2014 10:04:25
all this BS about losing our identity is a smokescreen and BS for the tabloids to print while there is an international break
Man United have broken the British transfer record in the 70s several times in the 80s and 90's we did it a few times since the 2000's started so nothing new in us spending big.
We have been selling players that came through our acadamy to other clubs in England for years and many of those players that moved on had won every medal there is to win, butt, o shea, beckham, phil neville, wes brown, and then other less established like drinkwater, james both at Leicester king richardson, bardesly the list goes on there has been no identity shift, its just we had a lack of quality and last season brought that to a head. Ignore the muppets that have nothing else to report they just make stuff up. sensationalism and poor Journalism. nut it keeps the scousers happy and gives them something to read inbetween car thefts :)

I don't know if the circumstances are giving rise to your concepts, or if its an original idea in itself, it does explain the real world that we are in now. Its fantasy to think '92 will keep happening again and again. LVG wouldn't have success at Barcelona or Bayern if it wasn't for the class players that happened to turn out in the academy, Muller, Kroos, Xavi, Iniesta among many others. Its great that he had the eye to spot them but who can really argue that they wouldn't have gone on to be great players. Morning always shows the day. At the end, its about the quality of players. You can have them, or not have them. You can only improve them to a certain extent. You have to buy them to compete if they aren't available around. Its all business at the end of the day. And you really can't compare with the past. The scale of business and commercial deal are massive now, with global investments. If that was the case in those times, things might have been pretty similar to know. You need to earn to survive, you need to win to earn.

I think a lot of this Loss of Identity talk comes off of the back of Phelan's recent comments. But, from his perspective, I would say that it is more than understandable.

In the last 18 months, we have seen three new managers, the complete restructuring of a squad and the loss of a player who has been with us since the age of 8. Additionally, all of the talk of tactics and philosohpy at OT this season speaks of a complete change in the way we approach other teams.

When you were a part of the club like Phelan was, you can understand how he would look in now and find it hard to recognise the structure he is now seeing.

As a traditionalist, I find these vast number of changes equally hard to rationalise. however, they are a neccessity. As you say, the world of football has changed. We cannot rely on producing a class of 92 with every squad generation. When that isn't possible, we need to have the best players, no matter how we get them.

Our history is our identity, as long at this is not forgotten by the fans, players, managers and owners, we will always be United.

04 Sep 2014 11:22:45
Phealen was about when becks butt, oshea brown etc etc were sold and was about when we smashed records for rio rooney and veron
So he is talking BS. Its called selective recollection on his behalf, he probably does not remeber our CL final defeats or losing the league to city because when he was at united everything was just perfect. Brain dead!

04 Sep 2014 15:57:13
but we have replace Welbeck and Cleverley with Wilson and Blackett.

Whelan is talking rubbish. He should explain why the academy has not produced a real top player in 10 years instead of blabbing about stuff he knows nothing.

04 Sep 2014 09:29:36
Quick rant if I may.

After our dismal season last year all the "experts" and "pundits" said we needed at least 6 or 7 players to even compete

we go and buy some world class players and now all the talk is were desperate and losing our identity etc

Jesus what the hell do these people want!

Seeing our squad now and the players we have we all can't be but excited for the season and seasons ahead

good things come to those who wait as they say!

04 Sep 2014 09:50:42
Agreed.
I figure one of the main problem is that Man Utd has been at the top for so long, we have made more than quite a few jealous people. Hence, they can't wait for us to be beaten and fail or maybe relegated.
Imagine if we make top 4 end of this season and potentially challenge the top of table next season, I won't really care about who bitch so much.
I read with controlled happiness that Ronaldo said today that he could return. It may happen sooner than expected since I feel there is something negative brewing in RM. Unlikely but hope he makes a come back to partner ADM.
What a dream!

04 Sep 2014 08:56:38
I was very enthused by the performance of di maria last night v Germanyhe ran the show 3 assists and a top class goal, he was fantastic, the argentina team looked so much better with him in it and I suspect they would have one the final if he was fit.
Rojo was a bit hit n miss showed some good touches but at times looked a bit nervous on the ball
Once LVG gets these and the other signings bedded in we are in for an exciting period I have no doubt Di maria is easily in the top 7/8 players in world football on current form he has passed robben and ribery IMO to compare him with lallana is complete folly and it says so much about how highly the English rate their players and league in general.

IMo there are less than a dozen world class players playing in the EPL.
If you consider world class to be picked on being one of the top 4 players in the world in your position.

I think we have 3 WC players in our squad De gea, di maria, falcao (RVP just falls outside that category now)
Liverpool have 1 player who might turn out to be WC that is sterling but that is it
City have ya ya and aguero zabaletta
Arsenal perhaps Sanchez / Ozil
Spurs perhaps lloris

There are a lot of top class players in the EPL but very few WC players and England don't have any WC players at this time and have not had any WC players since Scholes

04 Sep 2014 09:47:58
Just out of interest Ken, what position did ADM play in, I only managed to see the highlights?

04 Sep 2014 10:08:32
HI Tot, he played much of the game on the right wing switched to the left for his final 15 mins, but he was roving all over the pitch. Its hard to say exactly but he was primarily left of a 3 man strike force but had a pretty free role pretty much like robben played in the WC. Best player by a mile was the opinion of the commentator and co commentator and to anybody who watched. Stevie wonder would have picked him out last night he was that good:)

04 Sep 2014 10:30:12
He was on the right wing

04 Sep 2014 13:10:41
correct right of a 3 man attack sorry I said left above. he finished on the left after spurs boy lamella went off and Gaitain cam on

Okay won the final? C'mon.

04 Sep 2014 05:31:11
Just ignore the Media and rival fans taking a sly at United all the time. Its just nature, everyone downbeats on you when you are struggling. But, the circus that we are seeing now isn't so. Its more of an immature defense mechanism on their part. Di Maria, Falcao, RVP I meant those are just class players in our squad among the few others. I would envy if any other rival team had that. But, then I would admit not like these cheap shots they are having out of pure misery. The only thing that is left to be done, is to get some chemistry going between the players. Then, we are unstoppable.