Manchester United Banter Archive December 05 2012

 

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05 Dec 2012 22:51:33
Possible last 16 opponents

Real Madrid
Porto
Shakhtar
Valencia
AC Milan
Celtic

Madrid would be the hardest test and a very very difficult game,Porto and Shakhtar would also be very hard can't see much in those games if we draw them
would take Valenca Milan or Celtic all 3 very winnable!

RED91 {Ed004's Note - Would like to see porto. Think it could be interesting to see how Rodriguez does}

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Couple of months away yet ED004 but Porto and Shakhtar would over-run us in the Midfield both are excellent technically,

RED91

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Same Ed... Porto are a good side but not anything special... Although I rate Rodriguez insanely high and I also like Jackson Martinez the striker he has pace to burn.

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Porto has a very combative midfield and martinez is a very good striker and hope we avoid them. Madrid i would put a massive bet on them hum...g us home and away. AC milan would be the best outcome and even though they are very average, we ain't any better and it will be competitive.

Shahram

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05 Dec 2012 22:46:06
I'm as annoyed as anyone after tonight's rubbish, but look on the bright side, we rested a lot of our key players and actually had the privilege to do so. Big game on Sunday, wouldn't it be nice to end there home record?

Hoppy

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It would but I'd also be happy with a draw in truth. City's home form is great but their away form is questionable so a draw would be better for us than them IMO

Gav

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05 Dec 2012 22:38:17
I'm not sure how people can say things like this. There was the season when he almost single handedly won the league for us for a start. I'm not sure how you can possibly claim that Rodriguez and Neymar are superior to Nani, they both play in Mickey mouse leagues where the defending is non-existent. Hazard, will be an incredible player, one of the best on the planet, but isn't quite there yet. Robben is about the least consistent player on the planet. Ribery I would say is of a similar level.

I think Reus is THE best winger on the planet right now fyi. You'd have to be slightly deranged not to see what Nani brings to the team when he gets a run of games, you'd have to be more deranged not to see what he's brought to the team over the past 5 years.

Percy
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Are you for real? Seriously? The defending in Brazil and Portugal is non existant is it Percy? So they play with 5 midfielders and 5 strikers in those leagues do they? Neymar is the next big thing from Brazil. He is already better than Nani. You have to be the most biased United fan in the world to say Nani is better than him. Rodriguez is another top player, who performs better than Nani on a consistent basis. As for Nani single handedly winning us the league? Hernandez scored 20 goals that season, Berbatov scored 20 goals that season. Rooney regained his form in March. Valencia returned and pushed Nani out of the team. To say he single handedly won us the league is a little off.

Hazard isn't on Nani's level? LOL. You criticise Robben for being inconsistent, yet when Nani is inconsistent, you don't say a word against him. Nani has had a run of games at the start of the season, and played awful all year. Not one decent performance. Yet you wouldn't even have Neymar, Rodriguez or even Reus ahead of him? Wow. I give up. There is no getting through to you.

G.A.G.U.S

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I wonder who will get his love when Nani gets sold soon?

Evra?

Haha

Jono

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You have some sort of crush on Nani, we get that. Everyone has his favourite player, and we seem to be a little off the mark when describing them. Sydney has Cleverley, Jono has Cabaye and I like Valencia.

But you re pushing it to a new level.

You have the football knowledge of a liverpool fan.

Mick

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Tbh Percy my old mate you are deep in man love with Nani he is awful 90% of the time

Pardoe

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90% is being generous Pardoe.... He has not improved since his arrival if anything he has gotten worse... When Ronaldo left it was his time to shine and he never did.... Constantly awful.

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05 Dec 2012 22:16:03
We are so one dimensional it's not funny. Get the ball down, get it wide, cross it in, get it cleared; get the ball down, get it wide, cross it in, get it cleared....repeat ad nauseum. We have no plan b whatsoever. The only bright spot tonight was Jones' performance. Everyone else should have sat in the house and watched a film on tv. I don't know which was worse, Scholes' giving the ball away for the goal or Scholes' attempt to win the ball back after he give it away. Both were embarrassing. I hope Sir Alex was watching closely in the Prawn Sandwich seats and chooses his team for Sunday appropriately. But he won't.

An Dun Red Devil

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05 Dec 2012 22:07:51
I can only assume the manager was going after the £1.6m on offer for winning the past two games.

Sydney!

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05 Dec 2012 22:07:43
The weakest group I have seen in a long long time in the Champions League. Every game was dire and painful to watch. We'll get caught out in the league soon? We can't keep coming back from conceding the first goal!

Believable7 Unbelievable0

05 Dec 2012 22:04:57
That was atrocious. Everyone on that pitch (in red) should be ashamed of that performance.

At what point did Man Utd start to care so little about playing a European game at OT?! It's disrespectful to every fan. It taints the memory of other great euro nights.

Absolute garbage, standards set by one formerly great Ryan Giggs... Take a bow son, walking through the game like you're better than everyone else. Well, you're not anymore mate, they were average and had you on toast in the midfield. How many glory passes do you want to try (and fail).

Fergy, you need to get spinning some decent motivation out of this for the weekend, cos if we play like that Citeh will win by double figures.

DodgyBanter

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05 Dec 2012 22:01:30
Anyone else here think Buttner should be given a chance at LM? We are short of wingers currently and he would defiantly give us attack and defensive boosts that side.

-JakeW

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05 Dec 2012 22:00:20
After what we have seen tonight there can be no excuse for Giggs and Scholes being anywhere near the Council House on Sunday. Both great players and legends but for gods sake we were playing a pub team tonight and scholes looked old and frustrated and as for Giggs don't please don't. I was there that night he went through the whole of the Arsenal team to score that wonder goal and it makes me sad that some of the younger supporters will just think of him as the old man who just comes on and gives the ball away. Rooney showed us another position he can't play. But you know what really scares me is that would be our forward line up without RVP. How frightening is that. On the good side Powell impresses the more I see of the young man and Jones seems to be getting fitter. I AM KLOOT

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Agree KLOOT.

Powell in particular looks like he could be class, he's got that " swagger " that's borderline arrogance that some of the greats have.

May be a touch premature but to me he has a Zidane vibe

Moog

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Agree with most of what you say KLOOT, apart from Powell. Tonight I thought he looked light weight and showed that he is not quite ready IMO. I do think he will become a great player, but I think people are jumping the gun a bit with him.

#ags

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05 Dec 2012 22:00:16
My line up for the city game:

_____________De Gea

_Rafael__Smalling___Ferdinand__Evra

________Fletcher___Carrick

___Valencia____Rooney____Young

_______________RVP

What Fergie will probably chose:


___________Lindegaard

_Rafael__Evans___Ferdinand__Evra

_Young___Fletcher__Carrick_Welbeck

_____________Rooney

______________RVP

-JakeW

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05 Dec 2012 21:57:48
Hard to see the motivation on a cold night, where nothing is at stake, well, hard for seasoned professionals so perhaps some young hungry players could play.
Their goal was a fantastic strike but it is so sad to see the demise of Scholes and Giggs forced upon us by Ferguson. Scholes gave the ball away then dived in yet they were just too quick, Giggs just gave the ball away, all night. Scholes booked as he gets later in the tackles, soon he will be booked for intent as the player will be too quick for him to kick. The result didn't matter but the lack of urgency betrayed all those who paid to go and watch in the cold. Where is the respect for the fans, very few of who want to see a 38 and 39 year old continue to embarrass themselves. It doesn't matter because Ferguson doesn't care about the fans in these situations. Basically a C class game at A class price, I can bet they don't give refunds for a substandard team. There was a time when our young players would have relished that game but we continue with two geriatrics. We just gave away a small sense of our invincibility at home without pride. I cannot see us getting past the next round given who we can play, I can see Real Madrid up next.

Anyway searching for a positive I realise that Scholes and Giggs had time out there so are unlikely to start on Sunday, well we can yet hope that is the case and the other positives were that Powell plus Jones looked ok and De Gea should be first choice.

Red Man

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"I can bet they don't give refunds for a substandard team".

We can't play your favourite 11 players every week - it's called having a squad. And even if we did, people would be on complaining that Fergie was burning them out by playing them every game.

People know what to expect when they go to watch a dead rubber - a team of kids, injury returnees and squad players, which is never going to magically produce a great spectacle.

StevieK

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StevieK

"People know what to expect when they go to see a dead rubber"

When the payment , full top price payment was taken via the automatic cup scheme I didn't get a choice. The point is Ferguson doesn't respect us in these situations, and I have every right to expect a bit of fight in our team and no OAP's having paid that much.

How much was your ticket that you didn't mind paying to watch the "dead rubber"?

Red Man

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05 Dec 2012 21:57:35
If the manager doesn't think that our youngsters are good enough to play in a game like this then we are in deep sh**. Who are the young lads coming up and why can't they play in a game like this?

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You rant on like we fielded a team of geriatrics. Apart from Giggs and Rooney, we had 8 players starting aged between 18 and 23, and one 24 year old for Gods sake.

StevieK

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05 Dec 2012 21:53:48
Why are Giggs and Scholes playing in a game like this? Isn't this the type of game where we give our youngsters a chance? There is no defense to the players the manager put out there, none.What do we benefit as a team to put Giggs and Scholes out there? I'm at a loss for words. Anybody think Jones may get a start in midfield on Sunday?

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If performances like these mean keeping Giggs as far away from the pitch as possible on sunday, I'd take them every day of the week.

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The under-23s SAF put out tonight benefit as a team, from playing with two old pros, who were able to guide them through the game, offering a bit of savvy know how, providing calm heads and experience. That was the benefit.

StevieK

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05 Dec 2012 21:53:32
Yes Mr Hazard.... you did join the european champions citing a great "project".
Raone

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05 Dec 2012 21:52:04
giggs was poor tonight but he's a 39 year old squad player, whats more of a concern to me is clevs.
his 23 should be looking to put a good performance in and get in to team for city but was he any better than giggs.
im surprised he hasn't played more but he seems to be down the pecking order.
jred

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05 Dec 2012 21:51:04
Not many bright spots in a game that ment nothing, I thought Buttner looked good as did Jones. But other than that not alot. I won't go into detail on the bad points as they were there for all to see.

Shappy

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Didn't help him getting injured either.

Caolán.

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05 Dec 2012 21:44:51
Jones, Smalling and Powell OK. Buttner not bad. Everyone else utter rubbish. WElbeck and Hernandez can not be blamed for not scoring, they had no decent service from midfield all game. Absolutely dire, the worst performance since ... well, probably the last match. When did we last play with flare, panache, gusto, enthusiasm, spped, guile etc etc. Certainly not recently!
I don't know whether I will be able to watch the almost certain defeat coming up on Sunday!
Mike B.

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Sure Mike, let's just watch them when we know they're going to win, eh?

StevieK

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05 Dec 2012 21:49:37
unbelievable performance again.

saw a couple interesting statisitics in the last couple of days which paint a worrying picture.

today after 70 mins United players had covered an average of 7,5km, while the Cluj players had covered an average of 8,53 km.

I hardly ever see any player sprint, only Rafael seems to put a shift in, and Evra occasionally (mostly going forward!).
Everyone else can't seem to be bothered to step it up, even after giving the ball away.

Lukasz Piszczek, RB at Dortmund, has an average! of 22 sprints per game

I'd bet Dortmund players cover more then 2 km more ground per game then ours!

We went from overrunning every team some 15 years ago to being a damn lazy team, very worrying.
Klopp keeps emphasizing the importance of the fitness of his player, how they can run, not jogg, for 90 min.

That's how they came out of their group of death without a loss!

Jonny8

Let's pick it up SAF

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Tonight didn't matter my friend, it was a run out, no more. Personally I am bewildered to why we never played all youngsters and fringe. The game really didn't matter.

Sydney!

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I am sure there would have eben more urgency had the youngsters eben playing.

I wasn't Talking about this particular Game, just took the data I saw today, the trend is the same all season.

Haven't seen any of our wingers running at their fullback, I am sure they are told to not give possession away, crippling them and taking their edge.

Anyway, we are defo the lazier team every time we go out, at least until we concede.
Why can't we put the effort in from the beginning?
Tactics or inability due to poor training?
Neither is positiv!

Jonny8

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05 Dec 2012 21:48:15
There will be no Giggs and Scholes on Saturday now, every cloud has a silver lining. (Well that's assuming Fergie doesn't act like he has alzheimers and pretend it's 1999) ;)

Hoppy

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05 Dec 2012 21:46:10
Disgusting performance, you have to say that there keeper played well though. What makes it worse is I've lost cash on this one - not a happy chappy.

Fresh!

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05 Dec 2012 21:44:41
hmmm giggs starts and we lose. Spot the connection...

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Did Giggs score their cracker of a goal? Did he let it in? Did he miss the header from three or four yards out? Did he make a few cracking saves in the Cluj goals?

What? None of the above?

StevieK

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05 Dec 2012 21:44:24
No positives whatsoever tonight. Whilst acknowledging that the game was a dead rubber, it would've been nice to see some of the fringe players show that they want to be be first teamers. If we were going to treat it this like a training game then we might as well have played the U21's! Attitude stinks, and don't like losing let alone losing at Old Trafford where we used to have a proud European record. Doc SK

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05 Dec 2012 21:40:17
i think the line up against man city will be,
lindgaard rafael evans rio evra young carrick fletcher welbeck rooney RVP

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05 Dec 2012 21:39:28
This is just awful...giggs, scholes retire! macheda couldn't play for f***ing sampdoria...chicharito can not play a game as a starter, he is awful! playing the whole u21 side would a lot better than this! We really, really need 3,4 reinforcements!
Pato

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05 Dec 2012 21:37:20
Few things here, Macheda is atrocious sell him in January, giggs has been at the club for a long time so no one should have to tell him we don't play long ball. Powell was good but he isn't a winger! How many crosses did we put in that found a man? Jones was really good that was about it.

Caolán.

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Giggs is awful n should retire asap
saj

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05 Dec 2012 21:35:29
Diabolical performance. No width. Tactics lacking. And our enthusiasm is nonexistent. We are giving away our home record to a team like Cluj! Very disappointing. I would much rather see a young winger playing than Giggs Scholes and fletcher.
NoMidfield

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That'll be our famous, envy of others, long-standing home record of, oooh let me see...three seasons. Is that the best you can come up with to moan about mate?

What did you expect with a load of squad players with nothing riding on it, against a team fighting to qualify? It was never going to be a stroll in the park, once it was clear a lot of the first teamers were being left out.

StevieK

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05 Dec 2012 21:33:28
Buttner has impressed me tonight. He's looking less 'rough around the edges'. I hope he starts to get more starts in the Premier League.

Andy S

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05 Dec 2012 21:31:10
the only thing we can take from that team and performance is that fergy doesn't like Galatasaray
jred

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05 Dec 2012 21:26:33
So what have we learned tonight?

1) Giggs is useless and gives the ball away all the time looking for hollywood over the top passes.
2)Scholes is also useless and hasent got any legs.
3)Powell cant play left wing.
4)Rooney cant play right wing.
5)Welbeck cant play upfront with hernandez as he makes the same runs.
6)Buttner looks like a good prospect.
7)Under the manager we will always play 4-4-2 regardless of the players available.
8)our tactics will never change and we will continue to lump useless crosses into the box instead of trying to play football.

All in all a pointless exercise as we knew most of these points anyway.

Tacticallyinept

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Giggs and Scholes may have come to the end of the road in their careers, and their powers are obviously on the wane, but to dismiss two great servants as simply 'useless', seems to be symptomatic of the spoilt, juvenile, moronic attitude shown by a lot of our 'supporters' on here.

They've done things for this club, you can't even do on FIFA mate, so have a word with yourself.

StevieK

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I thought we learned this ages ago! ;)

-JakeW

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Why Giggs scholes and Fletcher? This getting beyond a joke. Why not take a risk with a young midfielder or winger. This is pityfull. Some people have come from all around the place and they are treated to this rubbish.
Ferguson for christ sake stop playing Giggs fletcher Scholes and get some youngsters to fill in.
If need be go out and buy some midfield players.
This is unacceptable.
NoMidfield

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05 Dec 2012 21:24:59
Giggs needs to go. A legend but def needs to retire

James

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05 Dec 2012 21:20:03
Can anyone tell me what Giggs brings to our midfield? He is slow, more one-footed than ever, can't spot a pass. We have no penetration at all; even Scholes is not playing well. God help us on Sunday, even if it is a totally different team; they've all caught some mystery bug that makes them forget how we play.
Mike B.

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05 Dec 2012 21:16:19
BBBoooooooooo , is what should follow the
the manager of.......not a clue, god help us
Sunday, at lest no giggs or scholes.

Stagmufc

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Shut up.
Boo Ferguson? Get a grip.

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05 Dec 2012 20:46:45
Well it's official. Man City finished with the lowest points total of any English team in the history of the Champions League last night. Tonight, we may finish with the slowest central midfield of any English team in the history of the Champions League. I mean really, with the young players we have in the club, surely it would make more sense to give them some experience in this game than watch Scholes and Giggs struggle against poor opposition. Just saying.

An Dun Red Devil

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What makes me laugh is the persons on here cursing that we didnt get a low league team in the Fa cup so we could play the "young" lads.
That game would mean something tonight doesnt yet we end up with Scholes and Giggs in CM I mean what is that all about ?
Why is Tunners not getting a chance in a game like this SAF does not like giving young lads a chance anymore its a joke an absolute joke !!

Devil Dust.

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05 Dec 2012 20:46:10
Who will be in goal and midfield for us on Sunday?

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05 Dec 2012 21:16:06
I dread to think. not many options for midifled with cleverly maybe now out also, lukin like a lindergaard carrick scholes im afraid.

I AM BOOT

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Anyone out there that can predict the future?

TRUMORS

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Lindegaard, Fletcher & Carrick.

Sydney!

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Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. I AM KLOOT

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Limitation is easily solved with Imitation

DidgyBonter

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05 Dec 2012 20:43:42
Not brilliant, but I have been impressed with Welbeck & Rooney. Welbeck I think could become a fantastic winger. Our performance is going to worse now though with both Giggs & Scholes on. Giggs seems to think he is Ronaldinho and can play at walking pace.

Fresh!

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Fresh
i we watching the same game
jred

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05 Dec 2012 20:25:33
Tonight when i saw the team sheet i thought we were going to finally play a different formation and try and play football and keep possesion. But what does the manager do?! Stick rooney out wide right plays powell out wide left and plays a f**king 4-4-2!!

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05 Dec 2012 20:22:13
Shame we didn't use a young winger tonight instead of giggsy. Giggs has played several passes and non of them has found a teammate.
NoMidfield

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05 Dec 2012 20:13:23
I come on here every day and I constantly see Sydney saying Cleverley is very good and he will be with us for 10 years etc.... How can you say that about a player who is already 23 and he is awful in the final 3rd he can nor sort his feet and out and doesnt understand a final ball or finish.

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Uh?

Sydney!

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Sydney has never said that Mr Trollston. Cleverley will stay with the club from a long time, maybe not an all time legend but a good little player who can help win games.

-JakeW

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05 Dec 2012 22:00:53
He is Sydney!'s love child, that can be the only logical answer because the boy is so average it hurts!

Jenny Taylor

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05 Dec 2012 20:11:24
Another point: Why are we playing our players out of position. Powell is not a winger and Rooney is not a freaking winger

James

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05 Dec 2012 19:30:08
3-1 Powell buttner and wellbeck to score

Stagmufc

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Disagree with myself was hopeful, poor poor game

Stagmufc

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05 Dec 2012 19:27:21
Percy

You can't possibly class Nani as world class. What has he done in his 5 years at this club to warrant such a claim? To put him ahead of Hazard, Ribery, Robben etc is laughable to say the least. And only Marco Reus is better? Reus is one of the best wingers in the world right now.

Neymar is certainly better than Nani and so too is Muniain and Rodriguez. They all contribute more to a game than Nani does and on a much more consistent basis. If you look at Nani this season, and still call him world class, then your opinion is worthless.

G.A.G.U.S

I'm not sure how people can say things like this. There was the season when he almost single handedly won the league for us for a start. I'm not sure how you can possibly claim that Rodriguez and Neymar are superior to Nani, they both play in Mickey mouse leagues where the defending is non-existent. Hazard, will be an incredible player, one of the best on the planet, but isn't quite there yet. Robben is about the least consistent player on the planet. Ribery I would say is of a similar level.

I think Reus is THE best winger on the planet right now fyi. You'd have to be slightly deranged not to see what Nani brings to the team when he gets a run of games, you'd have to be more deranged not to see what he's brought to the team over the past 5 years.

Percy

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Percy

Honestly you have to get some balance.

I guess all the scouts and experts are clueless. To even consider Nani in the same league as Neymar is ridiculous. When Moura goes for 45 million, Neymar is 50 to 60 million signing.

I don't necessarily disagree that Robben and Ribery are not that special but nani is an average winger that has more poor games and than the occasional great game.

We would be lucky to get 18 million for Nani.

Shahram

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Nani had 1 good season then flopped after that and had about 1 good game in 10.. not united standards.

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I'm not saying Neymar isn't a talent. He is. Are you mixing currencies? Because Lucas didn't go for £45 million.

Percy

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Nani had half a good season and has been poor way more often than he has been decent. Percy, you need to get tablets for your fixation, there is no one else sees the world class talent you do.

AJH

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05 Dec 2012 19:20:38
Read loads of posts lately about boring football, bring in this player, get rid of that player, time for the manager to go and so on. Well do me a favour and take a look at the video below and just remember who we are and what we are and lets just get behind the team tonight and on sunday.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wY4i80q5ZVA

Parks.

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05 Dec 2012 19:19:55
so there's no petrucci in the squad again, anyone know what's going on with him?


Munkydunc

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He has been injured for a month, he was in the squad for our last champions league games. Plus he played a full match on monday for the u21 and he's just coming back to fitness i suppose.

Mick

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I have never seen him play and just keep reading about him here. Anyone know why he is not even getting a bench seat for a meaningless game like this one?

Shahram

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05 Dec 2012 19:19:25
What is our strongest line-up (Included injured players?) I would say a 4-3-3 looking like this:

_________De Gea

_Rafael_Smalling_Vidic_Evra

__________Carrick

____Anderson___Kagawa

__Valencia___RVP___Rooney

I can see Anderson and Kagawa becoming an amazing partnership! Just imagine the drive and creativity between them both just behind RVP. Also Rooney as a LW wouldn't be his actual position, he would obviously drift centrally and Kagawa/Anderson would switch with him. I personally can't think of anyone better to add to the squad with the players we have.

Who would you have in yours?

-JakeW

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I very much agree with you - there are 3 players in the line up i'd replace though for new ones. Baines for Evra, Strootman for Carrick & Rodriguez/Gotze up top instead of Valencia.

Fresh!

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05 Dec 2012 19:07:10
Haven't posted for a while been taking some time to think things over and read what others think.

First, KLOOT you keep knocking Rooney and praising RVP as the savior when RVP is playing his preferred position and Rooney is being forced to play in the midfield. Your argument was that Rooney had misplaced passes and oh yes he scored a penalty and a tap in. You went on to say RVP is worldclass the same RVP that had misplaced passes and lost the ball a few times but you were too busy watching Rooney to notice that. I'm gonna guess you saw his flick that set up RVP for an easy goal and he would have also scored a tap in so if put on the same scale you rate RVP on then Rooney is worldclass too.

Second, our play has been pretty poor we have been lucky on more than one occasion and it's only a matter of time before we are found out and destroyed. There are many questions that need to be asked is it selection, or tactics, or injuries, or is it just down to bad form. I said a long time ago that the base of the team needs to be solid to free up the forward players to express themselves. As long as Fergie is going to keep dropping DDG and change the back 4 they will never form an understanding and we will continue to play scared football. I understand that players need rest but players also need to play with each other and become more familiar with each other to form understandings that the teams before had. The trio of VDS, Ferdinand, and Vidic was unchanged for how long and how many clean sheets were kept? Point is a solid defense inspires the forward players to go forward knowing that the defense can hold their own. We have the attacking players just need that confidence at the back plus a midfielder to get us playing better.

Darren-Bermuda

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05 Dec 2012 18:59:52
Dortmund toped group of death...we want 2 sign thr player lewandoski,rues,hummels,goetze or their manager kloop..... Dey hv 1 heck ok team

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There team is not world class.... Hummels, Lewy, Reus and Goetze are class then Subotic and Pisczek are very good but the rest of the team is not that good. They just work extremely well together and the manager is very good tactically. {Ed004's Note - The keeper is very good and I think the left back who's name I will not attempt to spell is very good. I also think Gundogan is a very good player. All they need imo is one more midfielder and another player to play in the 3 in the 4231. I think they were looking at Isco and personally I think an attack of Gotze, Reus and Isco behind Lewandowski is brilliant}

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There attack is brilliant but I do not rate Lietner and Gundogan that highly.. Schmelzer the left back isnt the best although hes better than Evra. Wiedenfeller is a good keeper nothing special.

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So ed if u have 2 pick 1 name tht u wld lyk utd 2 sign who wld tht be {Ed004's Note - Hummels}

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05 Dec 2012 18:56:32
So giggs starts and so does cleverley. Hopefully giggs and scholes if at all involved in the derby, will be on the bench. Also suprised that fergie starts cleverley in dead rubbers and doesnt in the league.
RD27

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05 Dec 2012 18:51:28
De Gea, Jones, Smalling, Wootton, Buttner, Giggs, Cleverley, Powell, Rooney, Welbeck, Hernandez

woulda played jones at cb give him the chance to prove himself. doesnt really look like wooton has much of a future here

sulei

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05 Dec 2012 18:48:12
MUFC TEAM XI VS CLUJ: De Gea, Jones, Smalling, Wooton, Buttner, Giggs, Cleverely, Powell, Rooney, Welbeck, Hernandez.

Good to see De Gea back in goal, but I may fear that he's playing tonight and Lindegaard will play at Sunday. Nice for Wooton and Powell to be playing too, and no disrespect to Giggs, but thank god him playing now means he will not play at Sunday.

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05 Dec 2012 17:35:17
ED, how much do you think Reus and Hummels would cost? and would they be available?

also do you see Nani being sold in January with strootman being bought?

thanks.

JK92 {Ed004's Note - I think both would cost minimum 25 million. I also think it is one or the other}

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Do you know if we've shown any interest in Reus?

JK92 {Ed004's Note - I don't know}

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Can't see them letting Reus go at any cost after just 12months having probably been their stand out player so far. Unfortunately!

Gav

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05 Dec 2012 17:35:06
its nice to see uefa taking my advice and scraping the europe league and inlargeing the champions leauge , i mean it really is harder to win the thursday night cup now than the champions leauge and even uefa have come to realise it too.
ps , you just know lpool will win the european cup in the next few years now we will have more english sides qualifying for it , well we are the english aristocats of european footie are we not.............lfc

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I think even then teams will have to finish somewhere in the top ten to qualify. I am not sure though.

baba octopus

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YAWN... get some better banter lfc, and maybe a better name.. so original and boring..

JK92

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Jk92 , i think despite a massive fight put up by man utd , along with the refs , city will retain the premership this season by 11 points.....at least...............lfc

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Lmao lets make the elite competition a laughing stock... Imo it is already becoming a joke when it is supposed to be for the best of the best and you have 4 from one nation etc... top 2 only imo.

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05 Dec 2012 20:17:27
one thing is for sure, we will finish above the less than average lfc

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05 Dec 2012 17:06:02
predictions for saturday (realistic ones)
personally i would take a draw now, although that isn't the united way but i can see us on the back foot most ov the match, would be nice to stick a few into them but would have to get a bit ov luck and be at our best.

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Why would we need a bit of luck to score? We've been scoring for fun this season. It's just poor defending. The negativity starts here. Support your team!

Andy S

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2.2

Sydney!

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Draw

Shahram

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I wouldn't mind a draw at the Etihad, anything less than a win for city is a bad result for them.

JK92

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Well if we play on Saturday I will certainly be worried, our players will all be unfit for the derby on Sunday!

-JakeW

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05 Dec 2012 17:56:16
yes but city are solid defensively and we couldnt score against norwich, lets be honest city have better players than us and have full strength. I didnt mean we wud need luck to score but luck to batter them like they did to us.

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We are going to miss Anderson and Kagawa against them...We have no creativity at all in midfield now with both of them out.

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3-1 city, dodgy pen and an offside, 1 red for united, check who the ref is...

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05 Dec 2012 16:55:06
hummels and reus would do nicely in the summer along with strootman, maybe baines also?

JK92

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05 Dec 2012 15:50:26
"I said to my wife on Saturday evening that i can't remember the last time i have sat and enjoyed a Utd match, when was the last time we really controlled and ran out comfortable winners in a match?"

Giants14

Mate, we don't have some God-given right to run out comfortable winners of any game.

Do you expect the smaller teams to lie down against us just because we're Man Utd?

I understand your frustration at some of the insipid performances of late, but we also have to accept that other teams around us have improved, even those traditionally thought of as 'cannon-fodder'.

I'm sure it wasn't meant that way, but your comment smacks a little of the 'prawn sandwich' mentality, in that you're expecting just to sit back and demanding to be entertained, and for Utd to win every game at a canter, without realising that even Barcelona aren't always aesthetically pleasing.

Granted it's not the strongest Man Utd team ever, but I've watched worse over the years and I'm still here to tell the tale!

StevieK

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"I understand your frustration at some of the insipid performances of late"
----------------------------------
try the last 3 years stevie..
United have been dire to watch except a few games..
Do you really enjoy watching us play like the way we do..?

JK92

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JK92 - I wouldn't say I've been on the edge of my seat much latelymate, but like I said, I've sat through much worse.

I just think there's an element of having been spoilt among younger Utd fans, and I would remind them that it wasn't always thus.

At least we're remaining competitive in an ever more competitive league - look at the Scouse and Arsenal to see how easily things can go pear-shaped.

Of course I would love more flair and excitement, but all teams go through a hiatus from time to time - it can't be a never-ending, thrill a minute rollercoaster ride. But a title and 2 ECL finals in those last three years, is still a good return for an average team.

StevieK

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Stevie don't we deserve to be entertained fans pump millions of dollars into the club and pay good money to watch them play. I appreciate that you've seen worse but that's not an excuse to accept the performances that the team is putting out. Yes we are winning ugly and scoring lots but we aren't playing good football full stop. I don't know if it's what the team is being told to do or if they are just not on form. I do know that if I paid for a plane ticket, hotel, and tickets to the game I would expect to be entertained. The way we have been playing can be down to injuries or the switching of personnel week in week out but like JK92 says it's been happening for years. Players being played out of position not making signings to sort our weak points out these are all things that are affecting the team bad. We are entitled to be entertained because we are the "biggest club" on the planet our football should match our reputation. I don't much like prawn sandwiches but if you don't expect more from the team you love and want to see them be a force in England and Europe then something is wrong. We are Manchester United we don't accept mediocre if we did we would be Liverpool fans.

Darren-Bermuda

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Darren, supporting a football team is not just about paying money, sitting back and demanding to be entertained, and then moaning when it doesn't happen - it's something much more than that. And if you can't see that mate, then you're probably one of those that Roy was referring to.

StevieK

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Stevie when you pay money that the club then uses to buy players and chooses not to fix a problem that everyone on the site can see yes we do get to moan. We are supporters not sheep following blindly we support United but when they are playing bad we have a right to complain. Point being it is a business and it is a spectacle that is viewed by millions weekly so we shouldn't expect United to buy players and play them where they belong and actually play good football. Your comments smack of this holier than thou feeling like your opinion is better because you've been a fan longer. Sorry I don't buy it it's not acceptable and I as a person have a right to not agree. If you can honestly say you're happy with the way the team is playing you need to get your head checked. Doesn't matter to me that you've seen worse the problem is that it isn't a rare thing it is happening more and more. When is the last time we played really good I challenge you to name 10 games this year.

Darren-Bermuda

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Darren, you lost me after dollars and business. Thought I was listening to a financial adviser, rather than a football supporter.

Sure, lets just clone the 1999 team, and that way you'll be almost guaranteed a good performance when you come over.

If only it was that easy, eh?

By the way, Fergie was looking your number. Wants to get your advice on tactics and man-management.

StevieK

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05 Dec 2012 14:40:34
For all the regulars, and the ed's, put up a line up that you think we'll be seeing by the end of the next summer including incomings & outgoings! Will be interesting to see what you all say.

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Off the top of my head a line up I"d like to see is

Gk De Gea
Lb Baines
Cb Vidic Smalling
Rb Rafael
Lm Rodriguez
Cdm Wanyama
Cam Ozil
Rm Valencia
Cf Rooney
St Van Persie

Subs (7)
Lindergaard
Jones
Kagawa
Powell
Zaha
Welbeck
Hernandes

Ins: Wanyama 15m
Ozil 25m
Zaha 10m
Rodriguez 25m
Baines 15m

Out: Carrick 5m to another Bpl side
Evra 5m to a russian side
Giggs + Scholes retire
Ferdinand goes for free to same team as Evra
Nani 25m to Juventus
Evans shock transfer for 15m to Arsenal or Everton

Nani will go this January and we will get Wanyama all others in the summer

I know i've nissed out Young etc but this is off the top of my head without looking massivly into our linked targets.

Wildcard: We sell Hernandes to Dortmund for a straight swap for Lewandowski

AvidDevil

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Leaving: Nani, Ferdinand, Scholes, Giggs, Macheda, Bebe etc.

Coming in: Rodriguez, Strootman, Lewandowski and Ogbonna.

I believe they will be the realistic signings, we may see Welbeck leave if Lewandowski came in.

-JakeW

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AvidDevil we would not sell Evans and Ferdinand without replacing them, you have left us with 3 center backs.

-JakeW

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05 Dec 2012 14:18:30
Man Utd sign Deportivo Brasil striker Bruno Gomes, broke the U17 scoring record. Another one for the future...

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05 Dec 2012 14:07:38
I'm not bitter, but I will laugh so hard in the face of Eden Hazard who 'joined the European Champions' when they get knocked out of the CL tonight. Made a bad decision mate? LOL.

Fresh!

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He hasn't lived up to his price tag just yet either.

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To be fair to him, he looks sheer class when Chelsea are playing freely. I can't help but think he would've looked even better playing alongside Rooney, Kagawa, and RVP.

TK-Red

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Neither has Oscar - bright start by them both but struggling now and look like it has finally dawned on them that they have joined a circus!

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We wouldn't have bought kagawa if we'd bought hazard.
RedSince68

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'RedSince68'

We had already bought Kagawa when we went in for Hazard. Hazard was to replace Nani on the wing.

Fresh!

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05 Dec 2012 14:06:27
What about Ogbonna,Sneidjer and Baines in January letting Evra go the other way(thus Everton),Nani to Inter/wherever he wishes to go and allowing Macheda join Fiorentina and Petrucci on loan to Wigan or Stoke.......I still believe in Anderson,he is 100% United quality be a patient for he can and will deliver,then in summer what about letting Ferdinand,Scholes,Giggs go together maybe with Carrick and bring in Kevin Strootman with Lewandowski,Rodriguez and Gotze..........

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That'll cost us about 120 million, we should be a bit realistic.

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I don't think Dortmund will let us have more than 1 player from their club in one transfew window, it's out of Lewandowski or Gotze.

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I would rather reus, but there's no chance.
I also think hummels is more needed
jred

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Watching Hummels yesterday, he brings the ball out so far into midfield and like Smalling he finds that pass. Rio used to do the same thing but with age he cannot come out too far without getting caught out of position. Hummels and Smalling would be a sensational partnership. Rafael and Baines as fullbacks and we would have a tidy defence on paper. DDG would be one more season better off and we would look very good for the future. But we do need at least one more midfielder and a Nani replacement, then there is the obvious Lewandowski interest, something tells me unless Vidic, Nani and Rooney/Welbeck/Hernandez are sold it would be too much of a spend to get done.

Sydney!

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If hummels becomes available i just cant see madrid and barce not being interested, i think he would be a great signing for barce in particular.
but 10 years ago we went out and paid 30 mill for Rio, so you never know
jred

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Syd

You are correct mate that would look and no doubt be able to play great together, all we need is a cm that can take that ball off them and do something under pressure instead of backwards passes and we could be a nani replacement from completion.

Well I would want another keeper ;-)

Jono

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05 Dec 2012 13:47:11
Another thing, everyone are on about Guardiola and Mourinho when it comes to managing the big clubs, what about Jürgen Klopp?

- Peter Schmeichel on twitter

Hope this is a sign of things to come....

RamoN 19

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Klopp is the perfect replacement for me.

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Why- where are YOU going?

Puzzled

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This one was actually good puzzled

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Klopp would be my choice, he'd be a good fit. He has become one of the favourites to replace Jose at RM though : /

Gav

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05 Dec 2012 12:09:52
And how well will these players settle in england? could they cope with the style power and pace of the premier league.

I think we are too quick to turn to the flash foreign player rather than develop english talents who don't seem to have the same appeal for some reason.

We aspire to play like Barca or Dortmund yet what sets these teams apart is that most of the first team players in each team come from the same country as that team.

If we are signing a player who is the finished artical than i don't think it matters what natonality they are but if we are signing a young player who we are going to develop then i would prefer we tried young english lads before we go for flash foreign players who are unlikely to stick around for the long haul if they become top players.

Shappy

Shapps

I dont think the problem is in the adaptability or need to be a flash foreigner I just think that the main issue is the other countries are far further down the road with regards to grass root and youth development. In England the top youngsters are snapped up by the bigger teams and generally football schooled from later ages compared to Spain, Brazil etc. Its more a society issue that those countries use football as a tool for younger people to get involved in instead of trouble.

I think Germany are the highest contributors to the grass roots side of the game in recent years and this has shown in the national team and domestic teams success in recent years. The main issue I have is the fact that the money has gone into these schemes, which England can also do, has to be followed with a continuing playing of these players through to the first team. now we can see a multitude of top quality younth players that are in our set up of which very few of the top talent is English. This is all down to the need for the first team to be successful. Finances and ownerships demand certain criteria is met whether it be CL qualification or European slot or just staying in the prem all clubs are under these pressures and therefore the cheaper option is to get a 19 year old brazilian with the same talent if not more at that age than his English counerpart who will cost 5x plus his price.

Prime example Michu and Young. We bought Young in the last year of his contract for 16m at 26 where as Michu at 26 cost 2m. I know they are diferent types of players but the point is still valid. The over pricing and need for success drives the multiple shots at younger foreign talent hoping one will come good rather than all the financial eggs in one basket going for British beef and failing IE Liverpool haha.

Jono

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I fully get what you mean. The issue I have is that the op was surgesting signing players not really any better than english alternatives. I just feel that teams are too quick to look abroad rather than look closer to home first.

Shappy

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Shappy, technical players fit into the League fine - we are not that good - look at how the top European teams have handled the British CL sides (apart from us).

Fresh!

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Fresh mate, if you look at the english teams that have struggled in the champions league this season and they have plenty of foreign players in their teams so its the tactics as much as the technical ability of the players that has been the english teams down fall.

Shappy

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Shappy

How many english players do you see big European teams come in for? None because there is genuinely with the exception of Rooney and Bale slim pickings. The english media hype english players.

This romantic concept of buying home grown talent is not football reality today.

Shahram

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05 Dec 2012 10:48:19
I read with great interest Jamals earlier comments and feel compelled to add to his observation. We are top of the league but I feel thoroughly disillusioned. Part of me wishes we werent as it masks so much that is really wrong and how "UNITED" is dying before our very eyes.
Spot on Jamal - your comments sum up what many of us are saying on the terraces - I am sick of paying BIG money to go and watch what is best described as "dull" football. Too often we scrape a victory and our style of play at home seems to be like we used to play in a CL away game. A team that is permanently tinkered with and seems to have no sense of purpose, soul or passion.
We are paying for a Broadway show and being served up a local panto with some no-mark local celebs and has-beens. I would rather lose like we did against Spurs and have some thrills and spills than these dull boring, mundane "wins" - I never feel like a winner when I leave Old Trafford having spent £100 on my day and been left to watch Giggs and Fletcher or Carrick and Young bore me to tears....... and do NOT get me started on Wayne Rooney - when was the last time HE actually did anything entertaining? The man who publicly slated our club for "not matching his ambitions" before being given a King's ransom and going off to eat Pizza in Vegas pre-season and returning fat and wearing a wig. That City goal was a long time coming and is now a long time ago yet the media still makes pout as though he is a "game changer" well Sunday is a BIG game and we arent playing Reading so I guess he will dominate and create and score a bunch of goals.
No, I doubt it and I suspect we will set up NOT to lose rather than saying we can out-attack any team in the world and we have the balls to go for it.
All depends on how much the tired management can summon up enough testosterone to actually attack any more.
Myself and Jamal are missing our United - The United that just might score 10 today............... thats the united we PAY to watch and money is hard to earn these days.......unless you are Wayne Rooney of course.
Not strictly a rumour but we need to demand that the real UNITED turns up each and every game to entertain the hard-working fans who pay their hard earned money to be thrilled. THAT is the soul of United and that has been forgotten.

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It makes me cringe when 'supporters' slag off our club. We still play attacking entertaining football, we've scored more goals than any other team in the bpl and Rooney is being played out of position and doing a selfless job. We have come from behind in so many games this season which may not be as entertaining as a 8-2 win, it certainly gets you on the edge of your seat.
Support the club and don't act like spoilt kids, I've been a United fan since 1965, if you we're the same you'd have left us in the '70's and followed the .......... hang on in there, jeeeez !!

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I have to admit i felt the same when a read Jamals post.

I said to my wife on Saturday evening that i can't remember the last time i have sat and enjoyed a Utd match, when was the last time we really controlled and ran out comfortable winners in a match?

I know the game has changed from the 90s and 00s and have to admit being 24 i have only experienced the good times with some bad threw in but for the past couples of years the spark has seem to have left the team, this season we are scoring for fun which would be enjoyable if it wasnt for being a goal or 2 down by that stage.

I might be shot for this and maybe a should but he goes.... Is Utd in a rut?

Sir Alex imo is the greatest manager of all time, he has won everything and when new challenges come along he is usually the only one left standing - he has created world class teams over his reign but is it his time to retire?
Don't get me wrong it will be a near impossible job to try and replace him but it just seems the club and players are in a rut the last few seasons awaiting his retirement, IMO some players are happy to coast along getting paid and playing for Man Utd but their hearts not in it anymore, Fergie is relunctant is sort out the midfield,why?

Thoughts?

Giants14

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Spot on pal.I've been saying that since the end of the 2009 season.Too many players who simply arent good enough to wear the famous red shirt.Paying 16 million for Ashley Young was criminal,he was in the last year of his contract & didn't want to go anywhere else so 5-7 million should of been payed.Personally i wouldn't pay anything for him,he's a 1 trick pony as simply not good enough.Our midfield is absolute dross.I wouldn't keep 1 of them but that aint going to happen.Teams used to be beat before the game had even kicked off at old trafford years ago not any more.Bring back passion & flair

Blackpool Red

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And our defence was meanest.... Old trafford was our fortess getng a draw was difclt for clubs but nw i hv seen team dominatng us in old trafford as wel rember bilbao.

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05 Dec 2012 10:29:44
Anybody know much about this Bruno Gomes kid who says he's going to sign for us as soon as he turns
18? Exciting young talent? Or another Bebe?
Luke

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Very highly thought of in Brazil, won a few awards. Wanted by a string of European clubs but will only join United. If he is another Bebe then we will not buy him.

Sydney!

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On a related topic, has anyone any update info on Aguilar, who is another young striker we also have (had?) first dibs on via Desportivo? He would be a year or so older than Gomes (who is very highly rated by the way) and was regarded as one of Brazil's finest young up and coming talents.

There were a group of five young Brazilians (Gladstony, Aquilar, Lucas Evangelista, Agnaldo and another I can't just think of now) who were supposed to be joining us when their age/work permit conditions allowed.

I think at least some were at a Dutch club (which we also have an arrangement with, as we do with Desportivo) until they met the conditions to join up with United.

So does anyone out there know what the latest is with these lads?

Red Rob

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05 Dec 2012 08:00:35
Jono, i don't think we need two midfielders as we will still have Carrick Cleverley Anderson Fletcher Petrucci Powell and Tunnicliffe to fill 2/3 positions in the team. And only one of those SEVEN are over 30.

Shapps

Reasoning behind signing 2 would be tunners, petrucci and Powell are untested at this level and can't be/won't be a second option for 1-2 years with SAF in charge. By that time we SHOULD be looking to have punted Carrick and maybe Fletch if he doesn't reach his previous level (I am still very sceptical). I would still sell Andi this summer as his fitness has shine through and is possibly out for another 4 weeks just as he was getting going, not good enough for a mainstay player.

So we have Clevs who is pretty much nailed on to be here in 3 years time whilst there are questions over the rest. That's why I would buy 2 top CMs of the quality to walk straight into the first 11 as that allows less pressure on the younger ones and we can use them a little more gradually.

Plus SAF has looked like playing 3 proper CMs in recent games which would be helped massively with2 signings if giggs, scholes and possibly one of those 7 leave this summer.

I don't think SAF will sign 2 but I think that's what we need.

Jono

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We will not sign two central midfielders. Jones can play midfield too. I think the club will look to signing a player who will have more than one attribute. Strootman is a player who can attack and defend. I think he is a strong possibility.

Sydney!

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I agree Syd I dont think SAF will buy 2 but I feel we are 2 top CMers away from having the muscle to out play the top teams. We shouldn't be pulling wingers, defenders and strikers in to play in CM.

Jono

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I would expect us to sign one midfielder then assess how the youngster are progressing and how Carrick and Flecther are holding up in the summer of 2014 and maybe sign another midfielder then if needed. That why the team evolves rather than a revolution.

Shappy

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Saying that Jono, with Scholes, Giggs & Anderson probably leaving in the summer there is room for two.

Sydney!

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We need two midfielders because none of our current crop could be described as top class. Carrick is our top midfield player and can be best described as effectively doing a job in maintaining possession. Fletcher, sadly, looks a shadow of his former self. Anderson is too brittle and can barely last a full month of first team football, let alone a season. Cleverly is an option but not a solution. Jones has energy but neither the technique or positional awareness. And Scholes and Giggs should be allowed retire with some dignity.

Powell I have high hopes for but he is a few years away. If we want to compete against the best we need to sort out this area. All I hear is that players like Rooney can be dropped back or Jones can be moved forward, or Scholes/Giggs can still do a job, when the blinding obvious is that we lack depth in this area. We need physical presence and a player willing to carry to ball forward, but most of all we need more quality and depth.

Danny Pughnited

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We defo need 2 and imo there's room
jred

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We defo need 2 midfielders with real quality but will prob sign another 2 strikers and 1 or 2 right footed left wingers yawn
CardiffRED

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Definitely 2 imo. With Giggs, Scholes gone. we will have Carrick, Cleverly, Fletcher Anderson,powel and that is not very inspiring for a top club.

Shahram

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05 Dec 2012 05:25:02
IMO, Kevin strootman doesn't only have the steel, but has talent as well and is great at set pieces. Certainly what we need. Him and maybe lars bender would be dreamlike

Ps how good was modric last night

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05 Dec 2012 02:06:40
been a while since my last post but i can only really see SAF signing a couple of players in jan, firstly a replacement for nani, who i dont see fetching more than 15m, so we may only spend the same on his replacement, although i hope we do spend that extra and go for rodrigues or someone like him with real quality.
and secondly a more defensive minded midfielder, most probably strootman who we know to be both available and interested

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I think we will sign a player in January, but I wouldn't be surprised to see Nani leave and not replaced til the summer. Young and Valencia would be enough til the summer I'd imagine.

Sydney!

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I agree, I don't see Nani being replaced, we won't spend that much in January. We may only agree a deal for Kurt Zouma and that would be it. Or perhaps we might capture Baines. I think however, if someone came in for an important target of ours, potentially Hummels, then we would move.

Fresh!

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