Manchester United Banter Archive June 05 2014

05 Jun 2014 22:30:02
Rakitic to Barca for 20m euro, that Fellaini deal gets better all the time

05 Jun 2014 17:25:12
Last Christmas I argued that a lack of CL football would have a negative impact on our summer transfer targets. I was told by a few people here that I was spouting nonsense and scaremongering because players would always come if we offered them enough money.

With the events of the past few weeks, and even players like Konoplyanka stating that they will only move to a CL club, do people still think that our lack of European football will not prevent us bringing in our targets?

This isn't a 'told you so' question, it's just reading the site in the last few days it seems as if expectations have taken a massive dip. We've gone from (in the club's words) expecting to sign the world's best players, to for anticipating the arrival of young, unproven (and mostly Dutch) lads. Are people happy with us bringing in lesser talents, and do ye think that we will be able to bring in enough quality to get back into the CL if most our top targets are unwilling to move?

05 Jun 2014 18:10:26
I think you were right. There's still a chance we could attract a couple of very good players who will buy into the 'project' (I know, sorry for using that term) and happy to accept a good wage with the aim of reaching the CL next season. Most of the top, top players won't accept that though which is why we need to look at things as a 2-3 season process. let's hope we make astute enough signings to get us back in the top 4, then next summer we get a couple of real gems to finish the puzzle.

05 Jun 2014 18:16:23
I've no problem. If their good enough and van gaal thinks their good enough then it doesn't matter what their name is. The problem on here is there is too much of a fad of the week. We get linked to someone with barely a shred of evidence and then he's the hot new thing and just what we need and some people get a bad case of the Mr toads. I don't care how big the name is or what the fee is as long as they can do the job. If its Ronaldo or a Dutch lad no one had heard of 12 months ago as long as he performs.

I think a lot will come down to if the player thinks we will be in the cl the following year.some may be happy to have one year out if they though we would be challenging for the title this year and cl place.
But i'm not sure that looks likely at the mo

I think it is safe to assume that what ever happens - who ever comes in, we are going to be a lot better.

I for one think we have some formidable attacking options. If we can get the CM right, and sure up the back, we will be a force.

As long as we finish above those jumped up dippers, I will be happy.

Danny, may be just may be, we just don't have the funds everyones been talking about. Edmund Woodskull is doing a good job, if you know what I mean. I for one believe, if we show the cash, it should not be a huge deal. I hope my serving of humble pie is not very far away. But to be honest, the shambles that we are in has got as much to do with Gill retiring as it is with SAF calling it a day.

Deeps.

Pink Floyd:

A club who spends 65 million on two players' we actually didn't need, isn't short of a bob or two.

Just saying.

I was just at an event and was talking to Solgado, which said something interesting. "all the big clubs United, Real, Barca will do their business after the world cup"

Had so many awesome nuggets of info on players past and present and is the fittest guys I have seen in a long time given his age.

So relax and let's see how it works out. He also said do not be fooled by players shining for a month in a world cup because the top players are knackered and going into the world cup like always with injuries and being pumped with pills and injections just to play and in many ways are just not physically able to go at their best.

Sam - The total outlay was still a paltry 27 millions and some change for one complete transfer window. That was also a desperate buy plus Mata was more a show of strength and an isolated purchase. If the club had endless funds at its disposal, how do you think we missed out on Fellaini's release clause? What about the combined offer we made for Fellaini and Baines. What were we doing trying to haggle over Herrera's release clause? This when every man and his dog knew we needed reinforcements.

Either Woodward was pathetic or we do not have endless funds. Either ways it makes me cringe. I will be happy to be proved wrong and would wait till September to make a final judgement on this transfer period.

Deeps.

I think clubs like Monaco, City etc have proven that if you have a "project" or pay the money, you will get the players. I do not buy into the stories that LvG doesn't want Cesc and Kroos because they do not suit his system, of course they suit his system. Personally I think in Kroos' case we couldn't agree a fee with BM and in Cesc's case he prefers London. We need to be prepared to offer decent money this summer.

Shaw and Hummels will not come cheap and we are apparently close to tying them deals up. Close is subjective of course, but the club feel these two are the closest to joining according to one or two good sources. Two quality signings if we can wrap them up. I would be much happier going into the WC knowing these two are going to sign on July 1st. Fingers crossed there.

GCU, don't be offended if I'm not convinced that an ex-Real player has any idea what is going on inside the club. But the fact of the matter is that neither Real nor Barca are in need of the type of rebuild that we are. Plus, after finishing seventh in the league I'm not sure we can wait around until after the world cup and go toe-to-toe with the other big clubs. Because at the moment we don't have a squad anywhere near the standard required of a big club, and we aren't playing in the biggest competition.

Deeps, I agree that it could very well be a case of the money not being made available. The Glazers have always been about smoke and mirrors, but if they don't cough up major investment this summer, we won't get back into the top four.

Danny

It was just sharing what he said mate. I agree we are in dire need of quite a few players but will spend money. He also said the perfect player for us is Pogba and not fabregas which I found interesting:) His wife is ex real presidents daughter and they are very connected and she is extremely knowlegeable.

PMF,

I don't believe we have the reported 200 million pound to spend, but I do think we have at least 100 million, plus any monies received from player sales.

I don't think LVG would have taken over if he wasn't promised significant transfer funds.

I must admit to not having much faith in Woodward. It does worry me that he will run around looking busy, but not actually getting much done, although I suspect that Van Gaal would step in and maybe take the lead in signing the players' we need if Woodward is struggling.
The one great thing about Van Gaal is his standing in the game and the contacts he has.
A lot of players' on the continent would give their right arm to work with him, so that alone could make the difference.

Oh how the mighty have fallen ''I don't care as long as we finish above Liverpool''
what happened to ''We're Manchester United we can attract anybody even without CL'' ''We'll never be as bad as Liverpool were''
Typical case of hating us more than you love your team

06 Jun 2014 14:31:09
I get the feeling MU will become a lot more decisive, desperate and more generous with money when time is running out. This for me is a mistake, but I think there will be a flurry of activity in the last couple of weeks of the window.

Ed002, I have read your opinions on Hummels, but is there anything more recent to report on in regards to MU? It seems Barcelona have turned their attentions to Marquinhos and there are sources saying MU are trying to do a deal for him. Thanks as always.

{Ed002's Note - The lost world of Mu not Merrell Fankhauser have any interest in Hummels. However, Barcelona and Manchester United do have an interest. A deal can certainly be done.}

05 Jun 2014 15:23:42
If we don't at least attempt to sign Cesc Fabregas, while he is apparently available at the price being quoted, then something is very wrong. A player who plays best as a "number 8" but with all the qualities of a number 10 who can link the play and be a creative force from that deeper position. This is something we have lacked for years much to our detriment. I genuinely believe he would rather us than Chelsea as well, though Arsenal would always be his first choice. I'll be very disappointed in LvG and the club if we don't make a concrete offer.

I agree I think that is fabergas best position

05 Jun 2014 16:13:22
Believe,

You really think we haven't tried? I imagine we spoke to him and his response was that he wants to play Champions League football. That along with how he messed us about last season, I imagine we didn't want to be involved.

05 Jun 2014 16:22:06
Im sorry but your a bit deluded if you think Fabregas would rather join Utd than Chelsea, for one no champs league with Utd, then you have the London factor which is a bigger draw than living in Manchester, Chelsea are a club moving forwards the same can't be said for Utd.

He embarrassed us last year in the summer transfer window. Don't blame the club for passing on him

05 Jun 2014 16:28:31
Champions league football, living in London and joining the team that will likely win the league and have a good chance in the champions league

Or

Joining a team with no european football based in Manchester, who are currently in a state of flux while transitioning under a new manager who hasn't managed a game or even been to the training ground yet.

If you take your love of the club out of it then the decision is very simple and its not good for us.

Fair enough folks, just a hunch I have that Cesc if given the option this summer would choose United over Chelsea.

I am glad we not showed our interest in him, doesn't fit into lvg system no point signing a big name for big names sake like we did with mata

05 Jun 2014 17:23:26
Flint

Get over it!

Flint, we embarrassed ourselves last year. Didn't need anyone to do it for us.

He definitely sent some signals that he was interested in coming to United, but was just using us for leverage at Barca. Ironic, it would have been beneficial to all parties if it would have happened last year. That ship has sailed and Chelsea is a better destination for him at his time

05 Jun 2014 14:22:10
I have read a lot about Van Gaal's system and how certain players like Kroos and Fabregas don't fit it and I agree to an extent. But is the system supposed to be so rigid without flexibility? Especially for a Manchester United side to be stuck so much to a system that we are rejecting quality players in positions we require them?

The strength of Sir Alex's sides and probably all the great Manchester United sides was that there was a system, a plan, but it was very flexible and allowed the players to express themselves and even players being played out of position shone. In the last 20 mins usually there would be no particular system, we would just pass, pressure the opposition to death and let the quality of the players do the talking.

We currently lack players with creativity and steel in midfield and player with pace out wide and in attack. That simply cannot be allowed to continue, whatever the new system may be.

Kroos and fabergas wouldn't fit in to the system while players like classie and strootman will.

It makes me laugh, if kroos or fabergas where dutch I would guaranty they would be in the national team and fit quite well in to lvg system.

Completely agree jred. I don't see what Strootman and Classie have that Kroos and Fabregas don't. Kroos and Fabregas are better at pretty much every attribute a midfielder requires.

To be fair both strootman and classie are better at being dutch than kroos or fabergas which seems to be very important

Well I am with Jred and Redfaith.

What a load of rubbish to even think that LVG has some magic that we pass on A grade players and go for B grade players who will suddenly transform us. Last time I cheated talent generally wins out. Kroos and Fabregas are at a different level to players like strootman and Clasie is sill too young to judge.

Its like saying we want crouch over aguero because he fits a specific system better, I say complete bs LOL.

I'm not sure there are too many who believe that LVG and the club are not interested in Fabregas or Kroos. If we fail to sign them (which looks likely) - it won't be for lack of trying.

05 Jun 2014 16:50:14
LvG knows that systems need a certain amount of fluidity, he in fact incoorperates it into his team play. But he has certain criteria he wants in his players for certain roles.

Yes he want expression and creativity but you still need a basic structure in place otherwise you just have chaos.

Kroos can play the van Gaal number 6 role, but due to his lack of defensive work the team would need a the No.8 and the No.10 to be harder working defensively while also maintaining their creative duties. With Kroos as No.6 there is no place for either Mata or Kagawa.

Fabregas could play the number 8 role but his lack of defensive work and his poor positioning would mean you would need to have a very defensive No.6 to cover the space left by Fabregas.

Personally I think there is a more pressing issue with Kroos and Fabregas, they are playing for two of the biggest clubs in the world and if they were to leave they would have their pick of top clubs from around the world, seriously why would they pick us over any of the other considering our current position?

The only reason to pick us over anyone else is if we offered more money, in which case would you want a world class star who is only interested in money and not success?

It will be very difficult to get either kroos or fabergas.
In truth at the moment united would be a step down for them and both will have better offers.
But to suggest lvg wouldn't want them because they don't fit in his team is pushing it imo.
If dutch both would start for lvg holland imo

You are all crazy lvg passed on both kroos and fabregas because he knows full well they would never sign for us, what is the point of trying hard for players you know won't want to sign for you, just a waste of time and effort just look at moyes.

Jred, I think that it is likely that we will never know if LvG has or hasn't passed up on signing either player. And if he did why he did.

But don't underestimate LvG's feelings towards players.

He will never pick a player on reputation or because of their name or even pressure from the fans or other people within the club.

He picks the player who best suits the system he decides to play. That system has had a few changes over the years and he slightly adjusts it to play to the strengths of the players he has available, just look at what he is doing with the national team atm.

There are sum obvious staples that you will always see from a van Gaal team though.

First he plays with a midfield three so as to have control of the midfield.

He always has width and a formation the gives the maximum coverage of the space on the pitch.

Possession is key, if you have it then you win the game.

He always favours technical ability and intelligence over power and pace. While also appreciating the need for both power and pace in certain areas of the pitch.

He is the boss, and what he says goes. He won't tolerate any back talk or insubordination.

Shappy
I posted all of that a month ago had a good convo with syd about it.
I was a big fan of lvg at ajax it was like a breath of fresh air at the time .
And I've had an interest ever since.
There are some good books on his "system" but a lot of what you read in the papers are quite a simple take on it and a long way of what u see on the pitch . Its not wuite as black and white there are more ways to skin a cat.

A lot of views imo seem to be what people have read as opposed to what people have seen

05 Jun 2014 13:31:07
It seems my post the other day went down well for the most part but several issues have popped up in the huge amount of replies that were posted to it. So I now have the time to reply and give my opinion on those issues.

First off though people need to calm down about our current lack of activity. Yes Chelsea and Liverpool have signed a player or two but they're managers have been in place for awhile and have had time to decide on who they want/need and as a result their clubs have been able to work on deals for several months. We have just signed a new manager who has decided that the targets agreed with Moyes are either not good enough or not needed for the style of play he wants to implement. In effect we are months behind in negotiating deals compared to our rivals, so don't be surprised if they complete a few deals before we do, plus they have the added bargaining tool of having European football, the closest we are going to get to European football this year is a trip to the Liberty stadium.

So the first point I want to talk about is the short sighted view of young Deaddobbin, who felt that we should not bother with implementing a system of playing and just focus on signing superstar players as LvG won't be here for very long.
Well in football you have two options you can either put your faith into a system or into your star players. The difference is that star players have off days and can struggle or get injured. Where as a system will get you the result every time as long as its implemented in the right manner.
Managers who rely on a footballing system include Pep, Mourinho, van Gaal, Simeone, Conte. Pep had a system at Barcelona and he won everything the club then promoted their managers from within who kept the same system and they continued to be successful then last season they went for Martino who was an outsider who changed things and relied more on superstars and the club won nothing. Atlectico had a very solid system last season and won the title ahead of two teams with vastly higher quality of players. A system takes a series of smaller parts and combines them to be greater than the sum of their parts, this means when one player is out injured or suspended then someone else can come in and do his job and the team is no weaker. If you rely on superstar players then the moment those players have an off day get injured or suspended then the team is hugely weakened. Football is a team game and must be played as a team and solid unit where everyone knows their job and they do it. The best way to make a group of players into a solid unit is to have a system that teaches them where and how to do the job required of them.

LvG will implement a system, Giggs is supposed to learn from him and as such will be able to take over and continue the work of van Gaal once he steps aside. That is why van Gaal insisted in Giggs retiring so he would have the time to work and focus on learning about tactics and footballing philosophy. Giggs believes in wing play as does van Gaal but van Gaal realises that in order to have pacey wide men stretching teams that you need a more solid base in midfield and that's why he always has a midfield three.

A few people have said that they feel either both or one of Cesc or Kroos can play the deeper role. Now that is down to each personal persons opinion. But in my opinion neither of Cesc or Kroos could say that the deepest midfield position is their best position. Cesc isn't disciplined enough and doesn't stay in position enough and would leave the back door wide open at times if he played that role. None of the coaches at Barca have ever played Cesc in Busquets position for a very good reason, more often than not they have played his as a forward as they don't feel he is disciplined enough to play in midfield. Kroos on the other have is lazy defensively and wouldn't do the recovery work required for the deepest position in midfield. When van Gaal was at Bayern when he played Kroos he played him as a No.10 and not any deeper for a reason. So that shows you where van Gaal sees Kroos best position.

There has been speculation that LvG want's four players signed before he joins the club after the world cup. Now if we are to believe that then I would assume that the roles he will want players signed for are CB, LB, CM and a winger. I would imagine he will want to sign two midfielders and one of those appears to be Strootman, now he will not be able to be signed before or during the world cup due to his injury. I Think maybe van Gaal will wait as long as he can to see if Strootman will be able to sign before changing target. As for signing a second winger personally I feel we will need to sign two wingers or we could become lopsided and predictable. But I think van Gaal may want to assess the squad before he decides to sign a second winger, currently we have Valencia, Nani, Young, Januzaj, Welbeck, Lingard, Zaha, Wilson and Bebe who can play wide, so with 9 wide players on the books already I think he will want to have a look and see if any of them can fit into his system before he decides to spend money on a second winger. Personally I feel we will need two wingers as only Januzaj, Lingard and Wilson could make an impact imo and with all of them being young it would be prudent to bring in two more experienced wingers. But then I have watched all of our wingers on a regular basis and van Gaal probably hasn't.

Strootman seems to be a bone of contention with people not being able to decide on what role van Gaal will want him for. Well he has always played him as a box to box midfielder for the Dutch national team. The reason he has said that Strootman is the player that makes the Dutch team tick is because of the other players he has available to him. He has either Sneijder or Van Der Vaart to play the No.10 role, but neither work very hard defensively so he needs a box to box midfielder who will pick up the slack for them to make that work. Then if you consider that he has either played De Jong or Clasie as his No.6, with De Jong he needs some creativity to come from his box to box midfielder and with Clasie he needs a player with a bit more steel. Strootman is a box to box player, why he is so important to the Dutch national team is because he is their only midfielder who has the vision and passing of a No.10 and the strength and work rate of a defensive midfielder and without him their midfield lacks balance due to having either players who lack creativity or work rate. He is a complete midfielder.

Some people seem to feel he can't play that role due to a lack of pace, but van Gaal believes pace is important for your wide players but not so much for your midfielders and he is right as long as the midfielders have the intelligence to use the ball in the right way. Everyone who has played football will have been made to play the training exercise 3 on 2, where the three players have the ball and the other two have to win the ball from them. If done properly then the three will hardly run at all and the two will run themselves into the ground and never win the ball back. It's done to teach the importance of possession and how to keep it. van Gaal always plays with a midfield three who's aim is to keep possession thus having quick players in midfield isn't so important. You only need quick midfielders if you intend to play counter attacking football.

The final point is about Carvalho, we may maintain and interest but he isn't high up on the wanted list. He hasn't got the passing ability and range or vision to play as a No.8, he can play as a No.6 but only as a purely defensive player, this isn't van Gaal's style. We have seen him use a similar player in De Jong with the national team so we know he isn't opposed to using such a player if needs must but his preference is always for an intelligent passer over a brute which is why we will have seen less urgency to sign Carvalho since van Gaal took charge.

That reminds me, where is my copy of War and Peace.

05 Jun 2014 13:51:22
Another quality post, mate. Agree with the vast majority including your view on Carvalho (who I admit I've only seen bits and pieces of). Kroos I actually think would make a very good no. 6 in this system but i'm not so sure about Fabregas.

05 Jun 2014 13:51:25
Another quality post, mate. Agree with the vast majority including your view on Carvalho (who I admit I've only seen bits and pieces of). Kroos I actually think would make a very good no. 6 in this system but i'm not so sure about Fabregas.

05 Jun 2014 14:15:38
Another good analysis, I'm guessing you have some coaching background and have played at a decent level.

05 Jun 2014 14:17:23
Bit harsh Brendan. Although, I did used to think shappy's posts made for good toilet reading - until I was found one day by security at 9pm asleep in the work toilets. I learnt my lesson that day!

Great post Shappy.

I disagree on Strootman though. He is not all that. I would say Fletcher was a much better player than him at what he does in 2009. His workrate was way better than Strootman's too.

Strootman's lack of pace worries me, not just because he won't be able to use it while attacking, but because most teams play on the counter now, especially in Europe and you need pace in your midfield to break down these counter attacks. It is evident even in the slow Italian league.

Agree about Carvalho.

I know the system is important, but ultimately it is the players that implement it on the pitch. I don't see Strootman as being better in any way at the role you have described than Kroos. It might not be Kroos' best position, but Kroos is still better than Strootman at playing there. (for eg. Rooney's best position was not out wide on the left but he was still better than most wingers at playing there before his ankle injury robbed him of his pace) I could even argue that in his early days at Arsenal when Fabregas was played in 4-4-2 he was better than what Strootman is.

I don't see right now how not signing any of Kroos, Fabregas is going to benefit us. Strootman would be a decent signing, but will not improve us significantly, especially in terms of creativity.

Also, if you have a slower midfield you need quick wingers and strikers to provide the pace. We don't have that at the moment. Rooney has lost his acceleration long back, Van Persie relies on intelligence more than pace, Mata has no pace and the lesser said about our wingers the better. Januzaj is our best option. It is a slow and predictable side.

Eventually its quick passing and movement or pace that opens up the opposition defense, especially against top opposition. If you don't have that then you need a resolute defense like Atletico (something which we haven't had for a while) and a striker who converts whatever little chances he gets into goals (RVP in his first season).

It would be too much of a gamble not to add pace and creativity in midfield. It is required badly. I don't see how we are going to do that if we are rejecting players like Cesc and Kroos who are apparently gettable.

Shappy
I think you have let your last post go to your head.
Watch strootman for holland u21 last year against spain and italy thiago, verrati and co run rings round the very static strootman ( playing the 6 role)
Kroos is twice the player and is ideal for the 6 role imo.
i also don't believe lvg pulled the plug on the kroos deal I just don't think kroos wanted to come to united.

Also in short lvg plays a midfield 3 .
One as a deep playmaker
One as a box to box
And one as a 10.
Its been covered a million times.

@jred

Completely agree there.

A midfield of Carrick, Kroos/Vidal and Mata would be ideal for the system Van Gaal uses.

If workrate or tackling is the only thing Strootman is better at than Kroos, surely Van Gaal can coach that into him.

Great post Shapps. In the next couple of days I will be writing a long one ( and I mean long ) trying to explain the whole " system " myth, along with the possible players we should be after and the youngsters who should get promoted. Started doing that a while back, and managed to write about half of it in around 3 hours, then my battery died, it was depressing ( rookie mistake, I know ).

Anyhow, I share a lot of your views, and you obviously seem like you know what your are talking about. I don't get where the Strootman hate comes from. He was imo the second best midfielder in the league after Vidal ( with only Pogba and Pjanic coming close ) and one of the top box to box midfielders in Europe.

Shappy

With all due respect, I doubt you have ever watched Strootman more than 10 minutes to make a statement like he has the vision and passing of a number 10.

You are so wrong and you are also wrong in your assessment that midfielders don't need pace if they can use the ball correctly and I doubt LVG would ever make such a statement.

United will suffer until they can fix their team speed and technical ability and it starts with the back 4 and 2 central midfielders. Having speed on the wings is useless if you can not have players move forward as unit to support it, which is what we have currently.

Players like Herrera are what we need.

Shahram, I cannot be more in agreement with you about this. Herrera is light years ahead of Stroots in terms of what we need. I hope people watched Kevin when he was plying his trade for PSV and got owned by a certain Eriksen. The U21 Euros also being a great case study. He really is not all that good. Yes he would still be an improvement, but for a midfield that is crying out for pace, I would rather have the likes of Hamsik. We already have players like Mata, Kagawa who aren't the fastest. If we play with Carrick and Strootman, I reckon we are in big trouble.

Deeps.

Herrera would be a very good signing I would also be very pleased with hamsik, really rate this guy buy would cost a lot

05 Jun 2014 17:59:20
I like the look of Herrera and i'm surprised there seems to be little interest from us. He has the mobility we have craved. Doubt schweinsteiger is a real possibility but if he was what would people make of Bastian 6, Herrera 8, mata/kags/rooney 10? If we can't get Bastien or a tidy alternative this summer Carrick might still do the job for 1 season so long as we have the work rate of a Herrera in there?

Shahram, I have watched Strootman many many times, even live when he was at PSV. I've watched him play for Utrecht PSV and Roma. Did you know he started out as a number 10 at Sparta Rotterdam and over time has dropped back.

His vision and passing range are key elements to his game. He has a blend of tough tackling and passing. If he had pace he would be hailed up there with Vidal as pace is the only thing Vidal has over him.

You think pace is everything, well it's not. If you don't believe me then believe our new manager.

While at Ajax, he coached his players "to run as little as possible on the field, " through the use of positional drills. "Running is for animals. Soccer is all about the brain, ball and opposition, " As said by van Gaal himself.

Yes he will utilise pace but he will use it out wide where you can use it to stretch the opposition and get in behind them. This is why I feel we will see him sign two wingers to give the team the pace that is needed.

Shahram some of the best midfielders to have ever graced the game didn't have pace. Although not a midfielder Sheringham played top level football into his late 30's/early 40's, with every pundit in the world telling you that he had no real pace but was five yards quicker in his mind than any defenders.

Redfaith, Rooney if had played left back last season and he would have been our best left back. So why not just play him there? Ultimately because you get the most out of players by playing them in their best position, why spend a lot of money signing someone like Kroos to play him in a position that doesn't get the most out of him. Didn't we just all slate Moyes for playing Mata out on the wing? He was one of the top two best performers from our squad out wide last season. Why not keep playing him there?

The players can only play to the best of their ability, if they are played in the right system then the team can play greater than the individual ability of its players.

We saw last season how playing players out of position and in a system/style that didn't suit them that a team that won the league finished 7th.

Signing expensive players only to play them out of position or in a style that doesn't best suit them is not progress.

van Gaal doesn't play fantasy football, and he doesn't care for big names or big reputations. He only cares about the success of the team. He knows if he gets them playing his system then he will get that success.

There is a joke in Holland that goes "what is the difference between van Gaal and God? God knows he isn't van Gaal." You can have your opinions on players, van Gaal will have his, ultimately van Gaal will sign who he wants and get the team to play how he wants. You can either buy into his vision and his philosophy or you don't, but the club will be playing it none the less.

Shappy
I think a lot of us think kroos best position is the 6 . Or 6 changing to an 8 .
You seem to suggest that lvg doesn't want kroos or that he doesn't fit his system and that is what myself and others disagree with.
As for strootman he is a completely different player to teddy. My issue is I have seen him owned by quicker more technical players. The u21 tournament was embarrassing

05 Jun 2014 20:17:45
Jred, the under 21 competitions are just learning curves for younger players. Yes they are a good chance for youngsters to show what they can do. But there are plenty of players who have starred in those competitions who have gone on to have quite unspectacular careers while others who have struggled have blossomed into truely great players.

You could put down Strootmans poor showing to his team having a poor set up, you could put it down to the fact that he hadn't long changed from playing as a No.10 to a No.8 then the fact that he was asked to play as a No.6 during that competition, or you could put it down to the opposition getting their tactics spot on. Either way Strootman has progressed a lot since then and he has found his position.

As for Kroos I feel his best position is as a number 10, he doesn't do enough work off the ball to play one of the other positions against a top side. When he has played for Bayern as a No.8 he has had the luxuary of having Lahm playing the No.6 role so he has been relieved of his defensive duties, add that to the fact that 99% of the sides he came up against were inferior sides to his then it makes life easier for him.

Shappy
Kroos in your opinion is a number 10 but a lot don't agree.
I haven't seen him play 10 on a consistent basis for a while .
He played england of the park a couple of years ago from a deep position .

As for strootman GCU may be right, have you seen him play .
In the under 21 comp strootman was 23 playing as an over age player it was only last summer.
You say it is a good chance for youngsters to show what they can do.
Well various youngsters run rings round the 23 year old strootman

Well snappy we will have to disagree mate.

All great teams the Barca's and now Bayern the one thing that generally ends this so called dynasty is when you can clearly see they have lost their pace in the middle of the pitch. It is easy to play teams who you don't have to worry about players pace and everything is in front of you. I believe losing Thiago was a massive loss for Bayern and they lost that threat through the midfield that can run past players.

If you have ever played the game it is quite hard to defend when an opposing midfielder gets past your midfielder as a CB you are in sixes and sevens because you either have to leave your man and pick up the guy coming at you or stay with your man, neither great options.

In most professional sports pace and speed is the killer blow and when athletes lose it they can become quite ordinary and football is no different. Right system or not there is very little substitute for natural ability.

LVG has never coached in the premiere league and might be in for a rude awakening, it is the fastest form of football and more so a combination of technical ability, pace and strength than any other league in the World.

That is what guys like Veron never coped with it well.

. Either way Strootman has progressed a lot since then and he has found his position
shappy

Come on shaps it was 10 month ago and he has been injured for 5 month of them

Deeps

We are f. d if people think Strootman is the answer. Players like Sandro, Fernandinho and even Erickson will have him for Lunch to name a few.

I hope to god we do not end up on some jolly of bringing average dutch players thinking we can get back to our glorious past.

None of the players being talked about have won a damn thing noteworthy and are completely unproven at the top level and that is not what a Club like United needs.

Anyway I have said for a long time that we will get Shaw and will push for Vidal and Reus so let's see how thing go. Kolepyanko (spelling) is a back up for me and I think our interest lies elsewhere.

Shahram,

I hope we really go for the players you have said we might go for. They are the real deal, honestly a bit tired being linked to every Dutch footballer on the face of this planet. While we are at it, can we rename our club to Orange United F.C?

Deeps.

Look at the difference between us this season and last season. The change in manager ans style badly effected the players. van Gaal has a proven track record of going to huge clubs that have gone abit stale and reinvigorating, by implementing a new system that works and he builds for the future. There is a good chance that he will be able to get the best out of players like Cleverley and Nani who don't fit well into a 442 type formation but should fit better into a 433 type formation. His coaching will also hugely benefit the whole squad. Rafael, Jones, Kagawa and Evans are other who could benefit, along with youngsters such as Powell, Januzaj, Lingard, Pereira Keane and Varela who he will have a close look at and give playing time to. Add to that the proven quality of RvP, Rooney, DDG and Mata then he has a good foundation.

People seem to think we can quickly bounce back as long as we sign top world class players. We can't it will take 2/3 seasons for the rebuild to start to fully click into gear and we are 3/4 seasons away from having a dominant side again.

We need to find our identity again, we need to build with young talents who can grow into a team and develop into world class players.

Chelsea bought all the good players and it still took a couple of years to get them into shape, City have done it and it took 2/3 years for them to become a team. PSG are only just starting to become a threat after three years.

This isn't fantasy football where you pick the best 11 players and win.

LvG will need to assess the squad he has and work out who can adapt to his way and who can't. He then needs to move those on and bring in the right players who can mix with the existing players and the youth players he feels are ready to step up. He will then have to implement new training ground routines and build a new team ethic.

This doesn't happen over night, it take s time. He will need at least three windows to just get the squad he wants. That puts us at the start of the 2015/16 season before he can really start to push on. This next season will be about cutting out the dead wood, giving youth a chance and implementing his style and system onto the current squad.

Look at the difference between us this season and last season. The change in manager ans style badly effected the players. van Gaal has a proven track record of going to huge clubs that have gone abit stale and reinvigorating, by implementing a new system that works and he builds for the future. There is a good chance that he will be able to get the best out of players like Cleverley and Nani who don't fit well into a 442 type formation but should fit better into a 433 type formation. His coaching will also hugely benefit the whole squad. Rafael, Jones, Kagawa and Evans are other who could benefit, along with youngsters such as Powell, Januzaj, Lingard, Pereira Keane and Varela who he will have a close look at and give playing time to. Add to that the proven quality of RvP, Rooney, DDG and Mata then he has a good foundation.

People seem to think we can quickly bounce back as long as we sign top world class players. We can't it will take 2/3 seasons for the rebuild to start to fully click into gear and we are 3/4 seasons away from having a dominant side again.

We need to find our identity again, we need to build with young talents who can grow into a team and develop into world class players.

Chelsea bought all the good players and it still took a couple of years to get them into shape, City have done it and it took 2/3 years for them to become a team. PSG are only just starting to become a threat after three years.

This isn't fantasy football where you pick the best 11 players and win.

LvG will need to assess the squad he has and work out who can adapt to his way and who can't. He then needs to move those on and bring in the right players who can mix with the existing players and the youth players he feels are ready to step up. He will then have to implement new training ground routines and build a new team ethic.

This doesn't happen over night, it take s time. He will need at least three windows to just get the squad he wants. That puts us at the start of the 2015/16 season before he can really start to push on. This next season will be about cutting out the dead wood, giving youth a chance and implementing his style and system onto the current squad.

Shappy
Most people are starting to see that.
This team has peaked and got old and to be honest i'm a fan of the early lvg but i'm not sure he is the right man for the job .

Not sure what this has to do with the op

05 Jun 2014 12:45:39
Eds, is it true that van Gaal is looking to bring new football players to the club and these players are currently playing for other clubs? I've also heard that we are offering some form of monetary reimbursement to these players' current clubs. It's all over the newspapers and that interweb that they have now, so it must be true.

Also Ed002, I know that you don't like discussing money, but what do you miss more the drachma or the guilder? I miss the punt, especially the old 1 punt note. Now that was a currency you could put your faith in.

At last a post we can really have a meaningful discussion about. Personally, I always liked the lira. Was nice going on holiday and being a multi millionaire, even if it was only about £500 to the million Lira :-).

Also, for any transfer related info, just type the word tw*t ter into one of those magic searchy things and you'll get all the info you could ever need, it is all 100% accurate and monitored by special elves.

P.S. If you get a magic letter sent to you while on said interweb and it is from a nice Russian chap, feel free to open it.

05 Jun 2014 13:44:17
I'm scared to praise this, for fear of alerting the one gullible fool that always replies seriously to these posts.

ps. At least you knew where you stood with the punt. 1 pound = 1 punt. No having to spend weeks beforehand tracking the FTSE, and scouring the FT, trying to work out the best time to change your holiday money. But no matter what they have, punt or Euro, sure we all know it'll go on drink anyway.

Danny, you have clearly misunderstood the transfer market! lol
On the money topic, I think they should bring back the barter system and use coal for currency. Maybe we could swap coke for Koke?

05 Jun 2014 11:35:36
just saw an interview with the spanish manager del bosque and he is stating that the cesc deal is done for 33mil euro. ''he (cesc) told me its all done. he's going 33 million euros. interesting

Going to Chelsea according to reports

For me, Fabregas choosing to go to Chelsea would be a strange decision, unless they are the only team really in for him and Barca are trying to push him out. When you think of all the sh*ep that went on between Real/Barca in Mourinho's time as boss, including him sticking his finger in Villanova's eye, and him being an ex Arsenal captain, I wouldn't think he would want to work under Mourinho at Chelsea. Then again I'm not Fabregas and money is more important than morals these days.

05 Jun 2014 14:11:14
Not sure why if all was done Chelsea would be keeping quite we all know it's not their style. Ed002 says there is no agreement with Chelsea for cesc Bayern and us are the most likely IMO Bayern would need to keep it quite until they have found a home for the guy that cesc is replacing and we won't want to announce any signing until lvg has officially started therefore I'm still hopeful as I think he is top class and can play the 8 or 10 role and could develop into a first class 6 under lvg as time goes by

What about the rumour of him being wanted by Pep Guardiola at Bayern and thus making Sweinsteiger available, any Eds know if there is any substance to that,
Thanks

{Ed002's Note - You want the Bayern Munich page.}

05 Jun 2014 11:23:18
According to Bild, we are looking at Schweinsteiger.

http://sportbild.bild.de/fussball/2014/fussball/wildes-geruecht -pep-will-schweinsteiger-verkaufen-36255010.sport.html

05 Jun 2014 09:40:09
The suggestions from all the ABU's out there that Rooney shouldn't start for England are laughable. I keep hearing he's there just because he is Rooney and not on form. Last season he was directly responsible (goals/assists) for 43 goals last year in all competitions, more than any other England player.

People love bringing up the fact he hasn't scored in his 5 World Cup appearances but they are happy to ignore his 30 goals for England in competitive games including 5 at European Championship finals as if they don't count.

This is not me being a United fan and having the red tinted glasses on, Rooney has pissed me off plenty of times that I'd be the first to suggest he doesn't play if he wasn't performing, but by all accounts he has had a very good season!

Either way it just irritates me that as usual the press are piling a tonne of pressure on Rooney as they always do before a big tournament. He is still England's best striker and will prove this at the World Cup.

Agreed, he should start. I would have him up top with Sturridge and Lallana either side of him.

Was it 7 goals in 6 qualifying games?
10 goals in last 15 games

No Jred, repeat after me. "He is a fat, lazy, useless scouser, who eats a lot of junk, turns upto training drunk, has done nothing of note on a football pitch over the last 4 years, is actually a sunday league footballer, closest thing to Garry Birtles, greedy as f*ck, earns 400,000 Euros a week, should make way for Shinji Kagawa and Juan Mata's telepathic understanding that was as good as white text, is hated by Van Gaal, touch of a rap!st, zero positional sense, should be dropped from the Ingerlung squad, spud faced Shrek".

I hope I haven't missed out on anything, just trying to make it easy for the select few on here who would certainly come and make a case for themselves.

Deeps.

Deeps
I think that about covers it

Jred you forgot to tell us his goal record from the 2 World Cups he has played in :-)

We won't mention that he was stupidly sent off in 2006 after coming back from injury and him also getting sent off in the LAST qualifier before Euro 2012 meaning he missed the first 2 games of the finals, highlighting how stupid he can be. That said, England have no one better so he has to play through the middle and nowhere else.

Deeps you forgot his pathetic short passing.

That is all.

Haha Brendan, I couldn't live up to your expectations. I also forgot to add the "I just hate his face" logic.

Deeps.

05 Jun 2014 18:18:26
Quality Deeps! I blame him for what's going on in the Ukraine too, Putin is just the scapegoat ;-)

Still staying out of this debate though lol

Brendan
4 games not fully fit to be fair.
I might be wrong but is he englands top scorer in competitive games?
Some times its easy to forget he plays for the team u support.
I have no doubt you hope he has a poor world cup so u can shout "i told u so"

Gav, Rooney also killed the screaming little boy in Van Persie. No wonder Van Gaal is baying for his blood, he would settle for nothing less than Wayne's head ;-). Some of the analysts we have here are good enough for goal dot com.

Deeps.

Jred, to be fair, a fair few on here have been waiting for 4-5 years to shout "I told you so" from the roof tops. I genuinely think, Rooney making their plans go t!ts up year after year gets on their nerves. I still remember the "Bye Bye Rooney" narratives after SAF left him out for our game against WBA at the end of the 12-13 season. Who was our best outfield player this season?

Deeps.

05 Jun 2014 01:18:47
Alright lads not posted in a while and not sure if this will get through but I'm doing a charity boxing event on the 27th June in aid of MacMillan nurses and was hoping for any support from you guys through my just giving page.

If anyone (ddg included) fancies chucking even a couple of quid into the fund ill be ever so grateful as they do a great job especially when dealing with cases of terminally ill people who want to stay at home like my dad did.

You'll need to search for my just giving page (mark-johnston7) or look on my fb account (mark Johnston (picture of my 2 kids, daughter holding a ball))

Thank you x

05 Jun 2014 09:34:28
Post the link up mate and I'll get right on it. A worthy cause.

04 Jun 2014 11:38:10
Ed002, is there any update on our CM targets? Have there been any recent changes regarding Schweinsteiger, Vidal, Strootman, Fabregas or Enzo Perez?

{Ed002's Note - I would not hold your breath about all of those.}

Hi ed2, good to see you again. You say we shouldn't hold our breath on the above mentioned targets and we can discount Koke where does our interact lie in central midfield, I remember you saying Carvalho was still of interest but anyone else? Thanks!

{Ed002's Note - There is interest in Carvalho as I have explained. The issue with Strootman will be his fitness, again as we have discussed. If he is able to prove his fitness before the transfer window closes then perhaps a deal can be done. If not, perhaps one for January or next summer.}

I think Strootman would be perfect, however I do worry that if van gaal Waits till January will he then not go for 2 CMs in the summer and try and make do. personally I think that could leave us chasing the pack and be too risky.
Hopefully we will get the top quality players we all talk about, however if we can't we need a back up plan. maybe Clasie and Carvallho with a view to adding Strootman at a later date.

Strootman would be a great buy but it seems January could be more likely. I would be happy with Schweinsteiger especially.

05 Jun 2014 10:31:43
Ed002 you said he shouldn't hold his breath about all of those, should he hold his breath about any of those?

{Ed002's Note - You can hold your breath to see if Strootman can prove his fitness before the end of August. I can't answer for Fabregas.}

If we target a January signing of Strootman, I could see us only signing someone like Clasie this summer and CM options of Carrick, Fletcher, Fellaini, Cleverly and Clasie won't be good enough. There's a chance we'd be out of the running by January with no guarantee of Strootman even being the same player when he returns.

We cannot go on with this midfield, simple as that. No bite, no pace, no creativity and no goal threat.

05 Jun 2014 12:46:38
Ed002, do you think there is anything in what Pique was saying or is he winding the press up?

{Ed002's Note - I have no idea what Pique has said.}

This is what was said.

The Spanish boss said: ‘About Cesc [Fabregas]…’

To which Pique replied: ‘He already told me it’s done. He is leaving for 33million euros.

Del Bosque joked: ‘The [Barcelona] president isn’t going to be happy.

‘You’re going to drive him mad, poor guy. You’re going to upset him.’

Thanks Ed, probably Pique up to no good, or he could just be very dim.