Manchester United Banter Archive March 05 2014

05 Mar 2014 21:49:49
I am looking at a left back, 2cbs, dm, and cm

Is that you David?

Surreal post of the day

05 Mar 2014 20:08:59
Great post Mick1 and response ed004.
I agree Mick with most of what you say although I would have a different view on some incomings. But we all want to play a 4231 or a slight variation of that. So we know who we would want to fit in to the various positions, However I don't know and i'm not sure anybody does know what style or formation DM wants to play. If its 442 then we would require different players with different attributes.
By now it should be clear what style and formation he wants to play. All the great coaches stamp their style and authority on the teams playing style and here we are 3/4 way through the season and its not obvious what moyes wants the players to do.
Once we establish what the manger wants his team to play like we will then know what players we need to fill those roles.
Asking really good players to play in roles that don't suit their best attributes will make them look very average like kagwa or mata being told to play wide with chalk on their boots or asking rooney to play in midfield or smalling right back welbeck as no 10 etc etc so even a kroos or vidal would look average if moyes won't let them past the striker.
8 months in and we don't know what he is trying to achieve with very good players. Now that is damning. so its hard to know who he wants and why he wants them?

For me 4231
5 players in I don't think that's too many.
I have 2 preffered lists
Shaw
Llanna
Kroos
Gundogan his injury worries me
Garay

Or
Shaw
Garay
Koke
Herrera
Sanchez

Promote
keane twins, petruchi, lingard, vermijl powell

Outs, rio, vidic, evra (id like him to stay to help shaw) cleverly, carrick, chich rvp young nani ando

I suppose that list would be different if he wants to play 442 or by pass midfield with long diagonals to a pushed on fellani! If anybody can enlighten me to what way we will be playing i'd appreciate it. because if its not fast flowing pass and move modern type of game don't go near kroos or snachez or gundogan.

The question is why don't we know what our style of play is?
Ken

{Ed004's Note - Don't forget to log in mate. Also I'm not sure Koke and Herrera or Kroos and Gundogan offer enough protection to the back four. Would love Alexis Sanchez. He is a fantastic player IMO}

Do you see any chance of Sanchez? He seems to be doing better at Barca now. A fast, skillful dribbler like Sanchez is what we need and also what the fans need. I personally miss the dazzling feet and the step overs of Ronaldo, we need that back.

{Ed004's Note - None}

Are there any players out there that we realistically could go for that are like Sanchez? Quick and skillful with the stepover culture? These are my favourite types of players.

{Ed004's Note - Di Maria? Griezmann, Reus?}

Yes but we don't seem to have any interest in Griezmann, Reus is too expensive and Di Maria is doing well at Madrid.

05 Mar 2014 20:20:47
Half England post and Half United! We are constantly having a go at Moyes for 4 4 2, but here we have England doing the same! Could have Sturridge up front with Rooney, Llanna and Sterling behind with supporting of Gerrard and Wilshere!

Yeah shano. And the play is the same boring style as we play at united.

Beats me how one legendary manager, and one decent one, have never seen the light regarding 442.

How did they ever make successful careers out of managing teams in one of the toughest leagues in the world?

Listen, sometimes 442 is a valid tactic, as is 4231, as is 4321, as is 4411, as is any other permutation you want. It all depends on the opposition, and how they're setting up, and your own strengths and weaknesses. Unless you're Barca, or Bayern (442 by the way), and then you can play the same way all the time, because they have some of the best players in the world.

I hate this simplistic view of 442=bad, 4231=good. There's much more to it than that. But that wouldn't suit snappy little soundbites.

05 Mar 2014 09:55:14
Ed004, if it wasn't for Rooney's new deal, I would have said start playing him in midfield, or dropping him to the bench and playing Van Persie up top is the way to go.

Moyes just does not seem to understand that in order to play 2 strikers, you need a midfield to carry the creative burden, and wingers who can perform week in, week out.

Now he seems incapable of accepting our wingers are poor, our midfield lethargic, and Rooney/Van Persie don't work well together.

Rooney is relatively creative, and he can be played as a second striker in a 4-4-1-1 just not as a number 10.

With Kagawa, Januzaj and Mata, we have 3 of the most technically gifted and creative players in the league. They need to be played in a 4-2-3-1 to get the best out of them, and the team. They would allow Carrick and Cleverley to find options to pass to other than the wings, and would create plenty of chances for Rooney/ Van Persie.

That formation would leave our defense a bit open, unless Fellaini gets back in the team and provide a solid base next to Carrick in midfield.

Let's not forget that a very mobile attacking midfield consisting of Januzaj, Kagawa and Mata would allow Cleverley to make the best out of his accurate short passing and ability to keep the ball moving, and make up for Fellaini's lack of passing range.

Unfortunately, Moyes does not have the cojones to drop one of our star strikers. I reckon Rooney would perform better as a lone striker than as a number 10, so leaving Van Persie on the bench is a must.

And during the summer, we'd need one defensively sound midfielder to set the tempo of our games, and let Fellaini and Cleverley fight it out for the remaining spot. Fellaini works better with a deep lying playmaker, while Cleverley is at his best when he is next to a midfield enforcer/ box to box player ( CLeverley's best displays came next to an inform Anderson ). So, in theory, fellaini would do nicely next to Kroos, while Cleverley needs a Carvalho next to him.

We would also need talented winger/ attacking midfielder to ease the creative burden and add pace to a creative attack would not go amiss either. Draxler, Reus or Max Meyer would be great.

So 2 expensive additions in the forward line would leave us more funds to use in defense. We would need 2 left backs ( one of which for cover ) and a central defender.

garay seems like the best option out there. Benatia is obviously the better player, but with Roma probably losing Pjanic ( another player who would make a fantastic contribution ) I don't see them selling selling 2 of their best players. he is experienced, talented, good on the ball and would allow us to play a higher line. We might go for younger player, with Ginter apparently a target. If we were going for youngsters, Ginter would not be my first choice. He is very talented, but seems like he struggles against pacy players, and is horrible in one on ones. At his age, he has the time to improve but we might need a more capable defender.

My preference would be Semih Kaya. An absolute beast. He plays like a young Vidic, with more pace. He puts his body on the line, is good in the air despite average height, and more importantly, he has a stare that would put fear into the eyes of any attacker out there.

For left back, Athletico's Filipe has been mentioned and so has Shaw.
Filipe is a proven top class performer, but he is not getting any younger or better. For his price I'd rather have Coentrao who is just as good, and younger.

Shaw is a future world class players, but he is a Chelsea fan and would probably choose them over us. My first choice would be Rodriguez. Quick, strong, beast in defense, and he can cross. What more can Moyes need? If not, Sandro is brilliant. He has more class on the ball than any young defender out there, and while he can make defensive mistakes, he is absolutely brilliant going forward. Moreno is another option, but he might be Madrid bound.

For cover/ competition, I'd consider ligue 1 players. Most would love a move to the premier league even if they will be squad players. Pape Souare is a rather consistent young defender, and he's not the most talented, therefore might like a move here even if it's just for a squad role. Benjamin Mendi of Marseille is young, built like a tank, and consistent. He might end up claiming the left back role for himself in the long term ( he plays a bit like Blackett, just much better ).

Many posters seem to think we need a right back, and we're supposedly looking for one, but I would beg to differ. I rate Rafael quite highly, and Vermijl is really to be his understudy while Janko and Varela are both potentially top class. Bringing in a new right back to stun their development seems a bit strange.

Just to make myself clear, I would prefer to buy 2 midfielders, one creative and one defensive, and demoting fellaini and especially Cleverley to a squad role. But I just don't see it happening since Fellaini was bought for a significant amount of money and will be given a season to prove his worth. If not, Axel Witsel to take his place, and Kroos/ Gundogan/ Pjanic in for Cleverley, and I'm a very happy man.

For the youngsters, if Lingard performs well on loan, and has a good preseason ( especially if we fail to get a winger ), he should be kept in the squad. If not, a premier league loan beckons.

Chicharito and Van Persie should be moved on, with Rooney and Welbeck fighting it out for the striker role, and Henriquez as third choice.

Vidic, Evra, Ferdinand, and potentially carrick ( Anderson is already gone imo ) following suit, with Zaha coming back if he proves himself at Cardiff. That would trim the squad down, and allow more young player to fill up squad roles, potentially taking a starting spot in the long term. Powell should be getting frequent game time, either as cover for Kagawa, Mata and Januzaj, or even completing a midfield 3 when the tactics change ( don't see it happening under Moyes ).

I don't buy into the whole 200 million warchest whether it's Moyes or anyone else at the helm. Moyes will have to prove himself capable of improving us in the long term without overpaying if he is to stay and will be given good financial backing, but not all of our egs will be put in one mediocre basket. If Van Gaal, De Boer or anyone else is to come in, they will buy the necessities ( midfielder, left back, central defender ) without chopping the squad since they need to see what they are working with. Evolution rather than revolution, always been the case

{Ed004's Note - One good thing about Moyes is he does seem to build good teams just doesn't have the tactical knowledge required to turn them into top teams. I agree with everything you have said. It's either Rooney or RVP it can't be both next season. I would prefer RVP though won't lose any sleep if it's Rooney tbh. I agree with incomings though slightly different players, I reckon rb is fine Rafael is very good and varela/Janko should be able to step up and replace him if injured. With Rio and Vidic going Ed 2 has stated a young CB and older one is being looked at. Ideally Ginter and one of Garay/Benatia/Mangala. A left back will be signed but only one IMO in this order Shaw, Rodriguez, Coentrao or Sandro. I think 2 cms are needed though I can't see it. Ideally Gundogan/Kroos with Vidal/Lars Bender/Witsel though that may see one of Carrick, Fletcher or Cleverley leave. I think lastly a left winger is needed a top one at that, Reus/Sanchez/Draxler/Griezman in that order. Though that'll be over 2 windows IMO maybe 3 as that is too many changes at once. I think Rio, Vidic, Evra, Anderson, Young, Nani should leave and one of Rooney/RVP, possibly a midfielder if two are bought. It would leave us with a very strong first team and good cover}

ED, Varela and Janko haven't had even a single loan spell and they've been in England only for a year now. Do you think Moyes would start using them as back ups for the first team next season?

{Ed004's Note - As a last case resort yes. Valencia first then move onto them or recall Vermjl}

How about Calum Chambers for RB?

He is predominantly an RB and can cover LB as well. He can fight with Rafael for the RB position and also act as a back up for the new LB we will sign
(however signing Chambers would diminish our chances of signing Shaw)

Soton already have Clyne for RB so they might entartain us if we put in a decent offer.

{Ed004's Note - Chambers looks a fantastic prospect Tbf}

I can see RVP going and Rooney becoming the main striker with Mata, Januzaj and a new winger behind him as I don't think Kagawa will get the chance. RVP & Hernandez could both leave so we would need another striker as well as promoting Henriquez. Who would be good enough and willing enough to play second or third fiddle though? Rooney first choice, Welbeck second choice, then who?

I think we will play 4231 against West Brom as we did against Palace. I genuinely believe that's where Moyes wants to go. I just believe he does not think he has the players for it right now without Mata.

I disagree on Kagawa there was a reason SAF hardly played him, the same reason Moyes does not play him, his abysmal form for us.

I'd play Janu Mata and Rooney again behind RVP.

I agree, with no Vidal, we need 2 CM's, Kroos, Gundogan, Carvalho and Gaitan seem to be the media's choices for us. I don't watch much Portugese football or German really but I've tried to follow these players a little. Kroos oozes class intercepts well but tackling is not the strongest. Gundogan has been injured but he can't tackle either. Gaitan seems little better than what we have, though only watched him twice to be fair. Caevalho is very good but at the asking price not for me. Herrera and Kroos for me(Obviously if I can't have Vidal). If we only get 1 then either of those (and here is where I get ridiculed) with Jones or Fletcher works for me.

I agree on Garay.

Filipe I don't rate, Sandro I do.

Winger Griezmann, Reus in that order.

Sandro, Garay, Herrera or/and Kroos or Gundogan and finally Griezmann. That is 4 players or 5 if we get 2 CM's. Unfortunately I've already been told there is no interest in most of my choices but hey I suck at FM2014 too.

The new deal for Rooney was only to protect his value! Now he has signed it, it will take £50,000,000 to let him go and be assured there is a clause if he goes he does not get the remainder of his wages! I like Rooney, but Mata, Januzaj and Mata behind RVP is a lot better and selling Rooney would give is funds we could use for Kroos and Koke! These two in midfield with possibly Garay to support Jones and Evans and the oh so obvious left back is all that is needed!

{Ed002's Note - There won't be any clause about not getting wages if he leaves - where do you get this nonsense?}

Good post, but if United were to sell both RVP and Hernandez (which is totally possible) I think signing another striker is necessary. If Rooney picks up an injury would United be able to win many games with Welbeck or Henriquez leading the line?

So you think players get all their wages if they 'agree' to sign for a new club?

{Ed007's Note - Don't be silly we don't think that at all, we know it. Wages and contractual bonuses owed are paid in full (or can be negotiated) plus if a player has not requested a transfer there is a % (5% in England) of the fee received due to the player. Why do you think there are so many stalemates between clubs and players over outgoing transfers?}

05 Mar 2014 16:07:44
05 Mar 2014 09:17:59
Just a question fr you Manchester United fans

When did you start supporting Manchester United and why?
Potatohead""
Dear mr potato head
ngiak can vividly remember the day
When the clock struck just beyond the start of the decade of 80
A wee little penguin child, in the later stages of his single digit age
Was rudely interrupted on his sabbath day morning animated entertainment by soccer
The team in red with the devil on their sleeve and playing with reckless abandon
Caught the penguin young un's eyes
He was captivated and he was fascinated and he was inspired
It seemed to that juvenile mind that it was a part of him that appeared on the screen
His style his ethos his free spirit his passion
It simply was an extension of his character his soul his belief
It was akin to love at first sight but much much deeper
It was akin to knowing that someone will be your soulmate from the word go
It was akin to realizing that to all mankind, their main life source was hope. And this was the penguin's life source
As without hope, man ceases to exist
Amazingly this soccer institution invariably, at almost from the very first impression, that fateful and admittedly extremely irritating morning in 1981,
Became the strangest and strongest source of belief and inspiration and strength for this little penguin
Ngiak was born a Manchester United fan
Purely on coincidence and an uncanny merging of the club's ethos and ngiak's soul that had never wavered
Despite the first 10 years of ridicule of their position in the table and resentment of their strong history and support
It had not wavered one iota
On the contrary, the heartbreak and the tears and the losing battles of retaliation with the rival fans
Actually endured ngiak's mind and heart and soul to forge an even firmer and unbreakable cohesion and bond with the club
That will surely last till the end of time . At least the end of ngiak's time
gan

I was at my friend Peter's house, and he was a United supporter. In those days virtually every league match started at 3pm on Saturday. We were watching the results come up over the teleprinter at 4:45 and I found myself drawn into his excitement . It must have been around late 1962 or early 1963 and it was a toss up as to whether United or City would be relegated. It was somewhat before United won the FA Cup against Leicester City.

05 Mar 2014 04:22:38
ED which players do you think we are looking at for LB?

Shaw
Sandro
Coentrao

I've read only these 3 names. Havent read Coentrao's name recently though(after summer deadline day).


Who do you think is most likely?

{Ed002's Note - Read the posts please.}

Ed002 told us yesterday, on the rumours page, Filipe Luis, has been rumoured to us for a while now, (imo not good enough) and Yuto Nagatomo ( all I can remember about him he is very quick) are our targets.

Grundy mate I also read Ricardo Rodriguez, is he any good?

Sorry bro I don't watch much German football, mainly Spanish and Italian though I try to watch players we are heavily linked with.

Moyes wants shaw.

I want Beyoncé and Rhijana at the same time :) but ED002 is right in another post too much fantasy /sigh.

Grund

No fantasy wait till the summer comes. United will get most players if they want to compete on fees and he is one they really want.

A lot of the other players being mentioned in the press, whilst there is interest in some we will not go nuts in paying over the odds to get them and will have other options.

I.e. Mangala, Carvalho.

04 Mar 2014 22:20:56
Hi

Probably for Ed002. You done a fabulous piece awhile back and was wondering if you could do a quick update/recap on anything you have heard on our reported targets recently.

I appreciate some of the information is probably the same as before but with the sheer amount of players reportly being linked it would be great to have an accurate list in one place.

Once again thanks for all your help eds.

{Ed002's Note - When I get time.}

05 Mar 2014 08:49:18
I think we will learn a lot from the team picked to play West Brom. I hope its similar to the team that played Palace. Will Jones play and where? Unless they play him RB, which tells us nothing, CM for Carrick or Fellaini then that's where Moyes sees him. If Evans is 100 % he should replace Rio. The front 4 though is crucial and I hope its the same as Palace.

I think we will go for:

___________DDG
Smalling_Jones_Vidic_Evra
______Fellaini_Carrick
__Januzaj__Rooney__Mata
___________RVP

We have to start playing that team as opposed to Young and Valencia. That is our strongest team and that front line is the foundation of this team and they need to gel. Its a pretty strong team although I would rather have Rafael at right back.

I would leave one of rooney/rvp out.

play kagawa in the whole with mata one side and Januzaj on the other but that is just my personal opinion.

do not think moyes has the personality or bottle to do that to one of them though.

Fresh. spot on with that selection
Oxred. I cannot believe that you are actually saying leave out RVP or Rooney out for Kagawa.
What is going through your mind. they are our two best players.
Kagawa is finished at United and will be sold in the summer, he doesn't fit in, the premier league is just to fast and physical for him for god sake get over this bloody Kagawa obsession.
Yes a very good talent but it just hasn't worked out for him here.

Simmo there seems to be an incredible love in for a player that has done exactly nowt since being here people keep going on about him not playing in his best position! so what we see players being played out of there best position all the time and they still give something to the team I personally do not understand how people could even contemplate leaving out one of our best players to bring this guy in.

Face facts he will not work out here he will probably go elsewhere and be amazing just ain't worked for him here.