Manchester United Banter Archive August 06 2014

06 Aug 2014 22:40:16
Thanks ed. Have read them, was just wondering if there were any developments. A few papers suggesting spurs have had a bid accepted. No worries. Thanks for your time

06 Aug 2014 22:08:52
Can anyone explain to why united sell players for cheap?

I know rumours are just rumours but there's stories off kagawa and Hernandez possibly on their way to atletico for 25 million

Or 16 million and Hernandez for turan?

Hernandez alone I believe could fetch 20 million, he ain't the best striker in the world or possibly not even top 10 but he gets the goals which is the main thing

Even when rooney was linked to Chelsea and many supports we're happy with 20 million for him. Rooney is world class and shouldn't even been considered being sold for less than 35!

We seem to pay over the odds for players and sell them for pennies

This was discussed yesterday, it's because the players who leave us are unwanted by us, the only player to leave united who we've wanted to keep was Ronaldo and we got 80 million for him. The players aren't in demand either, we're offering them around, not trying to keep them.

The obvious one to me is their wages are high so no chance of selling at a high price too, I imagine they offset wages and price so we sell low to enable buying club to afford the deal

06 Aug 2014 21:46:52
This is my first post but I'd be interested to hear of we are in for Marco Reus and if it's true he has a sub £20 mill release clause from next season?

I think it would be a great option and would allow flexibility tactically too.

Off to Bayern next summer, most likely

06 Aug 2014 19:59:22
Hi eds send in a post a few mins ago would like it to go to Banter on Vlaar and deJong . think I may have been in other posts while writing. thanks K

{Ed002's Note - It goes where the Eds decide.}

Oh dear, De Jong now and Strootman in January is it?

Very underwhelming indeed :(

Syd

There won't be a 'Strootman in January' mate.
Even if he returns to full fitness, why on earth would a team hoping to be challenging on all fronts sell their most important midfielder halfway through the season?

It'll be De Jong and that's it. No other midfield reinforcements til next summer when Strootman will be our long drawn-out saga all summer long.

If we are.going for de.jong, I don't understand why not use Fellaini in that holding position, he has the same attributes as De Jong.

I Just hope we are buying De Jong as well as Mr Vidal otherwise don't see the reason buying him .

Just my opinion guys no hard feelinga.

06 Aug 2014 21:24:10
De jong is miles better than fellaini. Fellaini is only really effective played off a striker with the defence and midfield lumping up long balls. Total anathema to van gaals style.

De jong wouldn't be my choice but ill trust Louis judgement.

06 Aug 2014 21:44:56
I have shared some tweets with Howard Nurse who I find very reputable. he says that there is no news, and it is being kept very secretive at united and so basically all reports are guesses and no one really knows who united are after.

What he does say is that we should definitely see some new faces before the end of the window.

De Jong is more mobile than Fellaini and is more of a central midfielder rather than being better at a number 10. Not the most exciting moves but he would do a job if we are waiting for Strootman or Vidal to prove their fitness. I don't see the doom and gloom though, this doesn't mean that we won't get anyone else.

For goodness sake fellas. trust the manager, this isn't a computer game!

I think I'm probably in the minority that thinks De Jong would be a shrewd signing, think he would perfectly fill the void that Keano left all those years ago :) I'd rather us sign a quality ball playing CB, but I honestly can't think who, bar Vermaelen and Hummels who we've targeted. Ideally I suppose if we are intent on raiding juventus, Ogbonna would be a perfect fit for us, and I believe he's left footed too?

Why does my brain go blank when I'm posting? Vertonghen, possibly not too realistic but he fits the bill, can play the ball, experience at LB and name starts with "v"!

Honestly think I'd rather have Fellipe Melo, Gabi or Inler for the short term

Anon -

There are plenty of players we could look at that can play holding mid (Witsel, Bender, Asamoah, Matuidi, Gundoghan, Luis Gustavo, etc) - but De Jong has Premier League Experience, has worked with the manager before and wouldn't cost too much.

As I said further down the page; I'dve been happy with De Jong if there hadn't been so much talk of Vidal. It's like planning to have a steak dinner and then ending up with a frozen pizza. The pizza will do the job - it just won't taste as good.

If that's the case then why not go for Daley Blind? Far better player on the ball and covers many other positions, i've missed John O'shea so we could do with another utility player ;)

I'm guessing LVG would rather have a player that is good in one position than a player who is average in 5?

06 Aug 2014 19:38:22
Hi all, IMO to finish top 3 vlaar blind dejong would be enough. to win the league add vidal and cuadrado to that 3.
Vlaar at 6m is great value he knows the league our system has the trust and respect of the coach and vice versa his passing / interception/ tackle success and headers won stats were no1 during the world cup and he has the character to thrive at OT even at 29 he could make a significant contribution for 3/4 years
Those who don't rate cuadrado have not studied his play.very comfortable at wing back he possess all the right attributes and has the strength to cope in the EPL tactically astude and with huge dribbling ability has some of the best ball carrying stats in WC behind robben and messi.
Blind is very verstile technically suberb and has huge scope for further improvement also well respected by the coach
DeJong does what he does better than most 1 wc final 1 wc semi says it all, its not pretty not everybody can be.
Vidal best in the world at what he does
I concur with the popular opinions that kags nani chich ando fellani and perhaps clev and raff will go if we were to sign the 5 above

Dont underestimate Vlaar (Syd) ;) he would be an ispired signing I would let M keane and reece james go to villa on loan for the season as part of the deal to get some game time lambert and keane would teach them well.

I agree that perhaps another CB would be ideal I firmly believe we need to sort the right side in order to have the right balance and Raff is not dependable tony V is not good enough we need real pace Cuadrado provides that. He might well prefer a barca move but if LVG gets him I bet Cuadrado will forget all about Barca he like all the others will want to give his all for the manager and his club, when you have his trust he is infectious players would die for him. We need real pace in the team and he provides that in spades.
I have not been as excited going into a new season since the start of the 93/94 season or the beginning of the 99/2000 season.

Full of optimism and I trust the Manager.

I don't think blind is any better than cleverly

06 Aug 2014 19:52:08
If Vlaar had not played in the world cup in back 3 under LVG, and for all purposes you knew just as a Villa center back. On last year PL performance would you still want him?

Couldn't agree more Ken on the whole, good post. I think we need a world class CB as well as a Vlaar/Verm.

Vlaar is slow and old. Not good enough mate. Vermaelen is pushing it IMO.

Great post mate and I agree with most of it, but Vlaar is not for me tbh there were times last year in the EPL where he looked like one of the worst in its history although maybe your right that LVG could get him performing at world cup standard but I still think TV far would be the better option.

As far as Cuadrado goes I think he would b a good signing at the right price.
Personally my ideal window would be;
Vidal
De Jong
Hummels
Vermaelen
Cuardrado

Although this seems like a tall order for one window hopefully we get 3 out of 5 at least.

06 Aug 2014 20:13:58
Vlaar Blah Blah. Nowhere near good enough Imo. Chelsea sign Zouma and we sign Vlaar. Shudder.

06 Aug 2014 20:39:42
Patzi What has Zouma achieved? Potential yes but he has not even played 1 game at the highest level.
I don't remember Vlaar being exposed for pace unlike humells at the WC he dint give messi a kick of the ball.

and at Villa he was surrounded by complete ineptitude Baker is it? he is worse than william prunier lol!

I think he is a very dependable CB who knows the role inside out and that's more important than raw pace in that role. 6m for vlaar represents better value than `10+ for TV and 32+ for mangala and 12+ for zuma dancer IMO

I actually rate De Jong and think that letting him go is the reason that City didn't retain the league a few seasons back. That being said the prospect of signing him is a little underwhelming having been told by numerous media outlets that a deal for Vidal was all but done.

I don't rate the other two at all.

Ken,

Personally, I don't see Vlaar as a United player, but I think you do make a fair point. You will come up against a lot of hypocritical posters on here. People will accuse you of "world cup fever" for suggesting players like Vlaar, just because they had a few good games in Brazil. A lot of those posters will be the ones saying we should sign Blind, DeVrij or Cuadrado because they are top players. Truth is none of those three were even mentioned before the WC.
The fact is, in all fairness to you, Vlaar had a better WC than any of those players. But he won't get the plaudits the others did for one simple reason. An this is, quite simply, because he plays for Aston Villa.

Betty
100% agree

06 Aug 2014 22:57:34
I agree Betty, LVG does not buy or field players on reputation he only cares about who can do the job. Under him Vlaar has proved he can do a very good job. i'm sure he would prefer Humells but he may not be attainable if not for all the reasons stated above he is a very good option. and in my view a safer bet than TV.

Betty - It has nothing to do with who he plays for and everything to do with his ability. He's mid-table standard. We're not a mid-table club. Ergo, he's not good enough - and a few good performances at the World Cup do not change that.

06 Aug 2014 17:23:10
Think we're all going to be very frustrated & disappointed with the lack of transfer activity come 3 wks time! It seems like we don't have the pulling power to bring the top quality players in anymore and we're running out of options for the positions we need filling & strengthening. The excuses will start soon.

Well you're an optimistic chap.

06 Aug 2014 15:53:22
Simple question. Taking into account, age, price, injury Vidal or Strootman. Agree for Vidal. Disagree for Strootman. The Vidal saga is pushing me to Strootman.

{Ed004's Note - Vidal now and Strootman in January}

Vidal now and Strootman January our midfield would be immense. I'm not sure about this Vidal knee injury concerns. Sounds like we're trying to knock the price down.

06 Aug 2014 16:40:51
Be realistic Ed004 we haven't signed a quality CM in years and you want us to get 3 in the space of 6 months haha.

06 Aug 2014 16:52:57
To hell with Vidsl and Strootman , we're in for De Jong!!!

I don't see how there's space for both of them as well as Mata, Herrera, Rooney and RVP. I'd take Vidal over Strootman in a heartbeat and if a deal for Vidal can't be sorted I'd take Carvalho rather than Strootman.

I cudnt even contemplate.both. With a top cb we would be.back amongst europes best

We could play a diamond midfield with Strootman deep, Mata at the top, and Vidal and Herrera on the sides. Those two have the energy for it. 4-4-2, diamond MF.

06 Aug 2014 20:19:19
I completely agree with Redseven. Carvalho all the way.
If we don't get Vidal, we'll defo go for him. I'd be very surprised if we don't go for him regardless.

Redseven I agree with you but I rather take Verratj ovrr carvalho but I think Carvalho will be more of what we need.

Singh -

Verrati's a very good player and if it was an out and question of who was better I'd have to choose him over Carvalho (although there's not too much in it).

I think Carvalho would fit into our system a little better however and may have the physical attributes to eventually play as a CB. I'd like to see us moving towards a dynamic formation in which the holding midfielder drops back to form a 3 man defense when we're attacking (allowing the fullbacks to push forwards) - and so for me he'd be the better signing. I also think he's more attainable and would have lower wage demands too.

{Ed004's Note - I agree with the formation you are talking about and I think that is why we will move to sign Strootman over time}

Ed004 -

Do you think that Strootman could adapt to that kind of role? He's not a bad tackler (although both Carvalho and Vidal average more tackles per game - despite the latter playing in a more advanced position) but for me he lacks the speed/mobility and the awareness to be able to pull it off.

Of course it may well be elementary as there's absolutely no indication that the formation I'm suggesting is something LVG is working towards (it just seems the most logical given the players we have). I just don't rate the lad that highly.

I also find it odd that so many people assume that Roma are going to be happy to sell him. Given his relationship with LVG and his long contract I can see them asking for a kings ransom for him. There's also the question of whether he'd want to come to Manchester United. I suspect he might as I don't see any other big clubs coming in for him - but LVG has only actually managed him for 25 games.

{Ed004's Note - I think he would suit the role fine. LvG has played him in the exact role I was talking about before. Though Carvalho might be a better option defensively while Strootman is a better leader and passer of the ball}

06 Aug 2014 14:07:34
tragic news for us united fans as howard webb retires.
without a doubt one of our most consistent performers over the years lol

Sad day, he will be missed by us all.

Thanks for all the memories Howard some of them decisions were truly amazing not to us but the rivals to

06 Aug 2014 13:44:10
Apparently the instagram image of Vidal is fake.

no bid has been made for Cuadrado either.

As far as i'm aware, and this is an educated guess; I think LVG is looking at both Vidal and Strootman, whichever one proves to be less risky in relation to price:injury I think we'll go for.

Vidal, is obviously a much better player, but there's no point having a superior player if he's constantly injured.

Strootman, for me has the advantage of being somebody LVG trusts, he knows the system(LVG did play a couple of friendlies with 3 at the back and Strootman in the middle) but he also has a superior passing range to Vidal.

in a system based around possession I can see why Strootman may be preferred.

I'm actually not bothered about which one we get, Strootman, I think will compliment Herrera brilliantly and Vidal is also a terrific player and a great leader.

I'm hoping for both, but I'd take either to be honest, I think we need to realise that both are very good players.

It's like saying Sturridge or Ibrahimovic; Ibra is quite clearly a better player currently but regardless of which one you get both are going to net you 20+ goals, so it won't make that much of a difference.

06 Aug 2014 13:34:04
LVG clearly doesn't want to make the wrong moves in the transfer market and is highly suspicious of Vidal's fitness which is understandable.

Why, then, isn't he exercising the same level of caution with bloody Vermaelen?

The man is a walking sicknote who spends the majority of the season on the treatment table. Yet we seem openly keen to sign him to cover an area in which we are both very shaky and already have injury-prone players.

06 Aug 2014 16:00:35
When did vermealen sign?

Probably to do with Vidal costing 5 times more than Vermaelen.

CTR

I didn't say he had signed. I said we are openly keen to sign him. Which we are.

Beast

True, but given that he'd probably be our only CB signing, that smaller fee could be equally damaging.

06 Aug 2014 19:01:45
More keen than Vidal?

The ed has said Vidal knows wot he needs to do, tbh mate I think this whole 'worried' over his knee is a red herring

06 Aug 2014 10:34:26
Is anybody else happy against Madrid our three weakeast problems were exsposed the right wing back centre back and midfield positions and would you be happy with Arturo Vidal Juan Cuadrado and Thomas vermaelen

I would take that if offered to me now, but Hummels would be a much better option than Tommy V.

06 Aug 2014 13:26:20
Yes as it puts pressure on the bean counters. i'd take two of those but hope cuadrado is just rumours

Really don't rate Cuadrado at all, I think the rumors are coming from the fact he is one of the only available and recognized wing backs at the minute. Rafael would suit the RWB position very well if he can get his injury issues under control, his engine is great, loves to get forward, is strong in the tackle (if a little rash at times) and most importantly, has pace to get up and down the line.

06 Aug 2014 08:36:10
If we have to choose anyone of them for the coming season who would guys choose?

Cleverly or Jesse Lingard??

Lingard all day long

06 Aug 2014 12:03:05
Lingard, Cleverley has had his chamce and needs to move on to get regular football if he is going to make something of his career.


My only concern with Lingard is he looks good out wide or off the main striker, but we are well stocked with No.10's and the new formation doesn't have any place for wide attackers. So can he adapt to playing deeper? What has always held back his developement is his size, that could be a problem when playing in midfield in England.

But i'd rather give him a shot then let Cleverley have another chance he is undeserving of.

Lingards won't want a much playing time as cleverly who I think van gaal sees as a number ten aswell lingard at his curent age will be a good winger number ten but won't want to play as much as cleverly

06 Aug 2014 12:52:15
Shappy I felt he looked decent at RWB against Real Madrid! He looks a classy player who could easily adapt imo!

06 Aug 2014 14:14:30
My issue with him at RWB is that he could probably do well in that role in Europe, but in the premier league I don't think he has the strength yet, in a year or two's time with some time in the gym then maybe. But what de we do with him in the mean time.

I liked how at times LvG went 343 with two wider forwards and one central striker later in games. Maybe Lingard could get some game time in one of the wider roles.

06 Aug 2014 07:17:42
Hi guys and ed's. Just a quick one . . does anyone know if there is genuine interest in cuadrado or is it all speculation? Also I understand that the vidal deal may not happen. just Wondering if there is any alternatives at this stage?

Thanks all have a good day!

Everything is speculation at this stage as the club aren't telling the media anything, also it looks as thought strootman will be the one we go for if Vidal is unobtainable

06 Aug 2014 08:45:45
In this 3412 formation that LvG wants to play the most vital positions on the pitch are the wing backs. They provide the width going forward and cover against teams getting around our defence. Not only is it key to making the whole system work, but it is also the most physically demanding role you can play in football.

With this in mind and with our recent signing of Luke Shaw one flank looks covered yet there isn't really a stand out candidate for the right flank.

Valencia looks to be struggling both defensively and is very limited going forward.

Rafael is continuing to have fitness problems and it looks like he will struggle with the physical demands of the position.

Young has looked good in pre-season but it is far from a natural position for him. He may struggle against top class opposition in a highly competitive league.

So we are in need of a player who has the physical attributes and the technical ability to own the right flank and add balance to our team. So the potential signing of Cuardado would make sense. He combines Valencia's speed and strength with excellent work rate and fantastic technique and a very good understanding of the game. Further more there are few players who have played as a proper wing back, most of the people we could target will either be more attack minded full backs or defensive wingers. The wing back position is quite specialist and very few people have mastered it. Cuardado has played in that position a lot over the last few years and is the stand out candidate for that position.

So with all that in mind I would expect us to be on his trail, and certainly push the boat out for his signature.

As for Vidal? I expect us to push for him all summer. I can see two things that look to make this a drawn out affair. The first apparently LvG wants to make sure he has fully recovered before we sign him, as a result he will probably want to see him play a game or two for Juve before pushing through a deal. He can't have a crocked marqee signing. The second is Juve will want the deal to go down to the wire so as they don't have time to reinvest the money. They will sign players prior to agreeing the sale, but if they sell him first not only will they have to pay more for the players they sign but their fans will expect a marqee signing to replace Vidal. Juve have spent the last few years signing player who they can make into top stars rather than signing the top stars much like ourselves. I don't see them moving away from this type of business model. So it suits them for the deal to happen as late as possible.

So with all that in mind I would be cautious of putting all our eggs in one basket. I would sign Cuardado a CB and Daley Blind who can cover the left wing back position, centre midfield and the left centre back position. Then if the Vidal deal falls through at least we will have Blind as cover and competition in midfield.

06 Aug 2014 09:50:07
Great Post Shappy.

The last three lines a the best of the post any I would totally agree

I am a huge fan of Cuadrado. We have seen in preseason that the wingbacks get space to play when we switch. Cuadrado will help us to play with more tempo, and he is clever going forward, individually and in combining. And his energy could be vital when we try to press out of midfield.